Feed Pets Raw Food: Jun 15, 2007

Re: [rawfeeding] new to group

On Jun 15, 2007, at 8:50 PM, kiraceeden wrote:

> Currently, I feed him raw meat, a little liver, small amounts of
> pureed vegies or fruits, enough bone meal to balance the
> calcium/phophorus ratio, a multi-vitamin from Solid Gold, a fatty
> acid supplement, and spirulina. Does anyone have any ideas what I'm
> missing?
>

Yes! That it's not diet-related, essentially. He needs to be on a
plain prey model raw diet, with minimal supplementation. He will not
become healthy by tweaking his food all over the place. The
reactions which you attribute to the food are coming from within him
- his dietary needs are not special, but his unique disease, which
comes, as you surmise, from the vaccines, certainly is. So you need
to fight fire with fire, not with food. Go to ClassicalHomeopathyPets
and ask there. You'll get a better idea of what's wrong and how to help.

In the meantime, feed him like a dog. A raw diet is perfectly well-
balanced to suit his needs - that's what he was designed to eat, and
there is no aspect of such a diet that runs counter to supporting an
immune system, weak or strong. The supplements you are using are not
correct or healthy - proper food, meat and bone, has it all and needs
no amendment.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: yucky smell after organ meats

Speaking of liver.....I have been only doing this a week and got some liver
and froze it in ice trays and thought I would try some tomorrow. Are the
ice tray sized liver pieces too large for a 7 #'er? How much should I give
each dog for the first time? (78#, 25 # and 7 #). The 78#'er has been a
kittke constipated so I think now is the time to introduce liver? Thanks
for your help.

> wrote:
>
> Hey Jen,
>
> I know--liver seems the worst. Try latex gloves! I get them at Costco.
>
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Marley- GR, Lucy-Cocker,
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Punkin- Pacific Parrotlet

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Re: [rawfeeding] new to group

I don't know...dogs require meat, bones and organs and anything other than
that is suspect. Could be ingredients in any one of the supplements you are
using, the bone meal, the veggies and fruit. How about telling us exactly
what your homemade raw diet consists of?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "kiraceeden" <kiraceeden@yahoo.com>

Unfortunately, we discovered that he had food allergies, including
eggs and kelp, and I had to go back to a homemade raw diet. The
problems with his feet returned. It seems obvious to me that there
is something missing in the homemade diet I'm feeding him but I
can't figure out what it is.
Currently, I feed him raw meat, a little liver, small amounts of
pureed vegies or fruits, enough bone meal to balance the
calcium/phophorus ratio, a multi-vitamin from Solid Gold, a fatty
acid supplement, and spirulina. Does anyone have any ideas what I'm
missing?

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Re: [rawfeeding] yucky smell after organ meats

Thanks Lora I may do that, the smell can be very strong, kidneys & liver i finding the worse the hearts are fine,
Jen
----- Original Message -----
From: Bearhair
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] yucky smell after organ meats

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[rawfeeding] Re: If I really fed them like they eat in the wild....

"missy7880529" <toddashaffer@...> wrote:>
> Dogs eat in packs, and the alpha dog eats first, then on down the
line
> to the least powerful of the pack. The alpha would eat the best
first:
> organs, tastiest meat, then what's left over would go down the
line.
> The last dogs would get the leanest bones.
*****
Sounds good but reality isn't quite so cut and dried. Research shows
us that relative status is flexible and the alpha during the chase
may not be the alpha during the eating which may not be the alpha
when the pack is at rest.

The only wolf likely to consistently get the short end of the stick
might be a male that should be getting out anyway...or a sick wolf
that provides no value to the pack. Otherwise, there's usually
enough to go around; if not during one kill then at the next or the
one after that.

Wolves are cooperative and supportive. It does a pack no good for a
few to thrive and the rest merely get by.

So my conclusion is it really doesn't
> matter that much exactly what we feed them, does it? Wouldn't it
be
> like that in the wild? Some days they's get the best, some days
they'd
> get what ever's left?
*****
Not sure how your conclusion comes from your premise, but IMO your
conclusion is correct--sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the
bear gets you.

So maybe
> translating that to today's world, I could feed my dog whatever raw
> meat and bones are available and the best price at the time.
*****
Yes, you are right. The only problem I have with feeding completely
by market availability is the market one chooses to shop at. Since I
have, at least theoretically, the ability to feed my dog optimal
nutrition, why would should I settle for less than optimal as a
result of having limited my hunting ground?

Even wolves, when pickin's are slim, move on. They don't hang around
waiting for the next score to wander in--they go looking.
Chris O

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[rawfeeding] new to group

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

Hi, I'm new to this group. I currently have 2 dogs, 2 cats, 2
horses, and 2 fish and I am rather obsessive about taking care of
them. It is one of our dogs, the 4 year old corgi, that is giving
me fits. My vet says he has an extremely over reactive immune
system. He has had allergies since he was 6 months old, he had an
extreme reaction to his rabies vaccine, and he has auto-immune
disorders. It seems that every time I turn around he developes
something new.
I started feeding him raw about 2 yrs ago when he developed an auto-
immune disorder called dermatomyositis that caused the pads of his
feet to peel off. The homemade raw diet improved the problem but
didn't entirely eliminate it. Then I switched to a commercial raw
diet, mostly Honest Kitchen and Nature's Variety and he had no
problems with his feet at all.
Unfortunately, we discovered that he had food allergies, including
eggs and kelp, and I had to go back to a homemade raw diet. The
problems with his feet returned. It seems obvious to me that there
is something missing in the homemade diet I'm feeding him but I
can't figure out what it is.
Currently, I feed him raw meat, a little liver, small amounts of
pureed vegies or fruits, enough bone meal to balance the
calcium/phophorus ratio, a multi-vitamin from Solid Gold, a fatty
acid supplement, and spirulina. Does anyone have any ideas what I'm
missing?

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[rawfeeding] Re: fresh trout......yes, I am a newbie!

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rabia4x4" <rabia_laura@...> wrote:
As she licked and licked and licked, a piece of the flesh
> came off into her mouth. She said, "AH! I get it!" and I was
> allowed to lay it down and walk away.
>
> As I type this she is laying on the floor, having a very wonderful
> lovefest with her trout. In fact, I just turned around to look and
> the head is all that remains. I think she was saving the best for
> last.
>
> I have never seen my furbaby enjoy a meal so much!
>
> I know this is wordy, but I just have to tell somebody and all of
my
> friends are really done with me and my talk about raw feeding.
>
> Bless you all for being here and giving me a whole new set of
friends
> who can relate.
>
> Rabia-Laura

Glad you shared with us! Wonderful story and never giving up!
I haven't given mine any fish yet, but have some fresh tuna in the
freezer for him........He'll be trying it soon!

Carol & Charkee

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Runny bowel movements-Felix

As is yogurt! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "costrowski75" <Chriso75@AOL.COM>

"gr8dnrsq" <gr8dnrsq@...> wrote:
With your permission Id like
> to bookmark this reply and send it anytime Ive heard "give him
pumpkin"
*****
You may, but do not be surprised to get lots of flack in return.
Pumpkin is up for sainthood in many circles.
Chris O

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[rawfeeding] Re: Peach pit snack

Glad to hear from you and that the kids are OK!
Yep, she's bad, lol.

Carol & Charkee

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "temy1102" <tammy.a.jp@...> wrote:
>
> this is probably going to sound totally negligent, but after reading
> what everyone said, and googling stuff, i decided the dogs would be
> okay, since they were both running around like maniacs, as usual.
> yesterday, they pooped the pits out, and today's poop was very normal.
> i will however, be keeping the peaches wayyy out of zoe's reach! for
> someone with 1 inch long legs, she manages to get to very high places.
>
> tammy & grover & bad zoe
>

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Re: [rawfeeding] yucky smell after organ meats

Jen wrote:

>Hi there i just been sorting out the organ meats for my two dogs the OX liver lamb hearts kidneys and such , putting them in plastic bags to freeze, hate the smell left on your hands after it all, yuck, takes lots of soap to get them back to normal . . .

Get some plastic food-service gloves from Sam's Club or Costco, or use rubber
kitchen gloves.

Lora
Evanston, IL

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[rawfeeding] Cat needing raw help, me too

Ok, I'm good at doing this for the dogs, I think, now let's work on the cat!
He's a bugger, and driving me crazy, he's an indoor cat, and leaves the house, runs away because he has a bladder infection, and doesn't like his little box, and doesn't want me to take him to the vet.
Well, I've been trying to switch him to raw, I need help.
Can you wonderful God's and Goddess's of this site, recommend some other sites, reading material, info, for me, to get, so I can help him get better without all the vet visits, and neighborhood tree climbing (he doesn't come down, once he's up, stuck in the neighbors tree for two days before he fell out in a wind storm, after I told him, I was taking him to the vet, because he peed on the couch, bladder infection) So, help here, he won't eat what I think he should and he tries to eat some chicken, but then the next day doesn't want it. And I do know with cats you can't make them switch, but that's all I know.:(
Any help you wonderful people of the net can give me will be taken in with an open heart, and a grateful cat, someday.
Jeni
owned and operated, often tricked by my two danes, and yes, our little tree hugger, literally, Lucky, the cat, John says he's lucky we don't kick him to the curb for peeing on stuff. (we're working on dad)

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[rawfeeding] Re: Am I doing this right?

I found the site helpful in organizing the whole confusing big picture.
I have not found any one source to be one that I would take as "the
bible" and follow it to the letter. I took what information I thought
was helpful. I hope as a newbie, Missy, you look to many sources and
advice and make your own decisions. ;-)
Laura

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cmhausrath" <cmhausrath@...> wrote:
>
> Laura Sherman <laurac2cheshire@> wrote:
>
> > I found www.rawdogranch.com to be very helpful.
>
>
> This site is certainly better than it used to be, but the author is
> still confused about a few things. Read it if it helps you get
> started, sure, but if it raises any concerns, please bring them back
> here.
> -- sandy & griffin
>

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[rawfeeding] Whiting

I finally found some fish today, but they had the heads and guts
removed. I have searched high and low for raw fish and couldn't find
any. Is headless and gutless better than nothing for a little added
variety 'til I find whole fish?

Michael Wise

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[rawfeeding] Feeding bloat dog

Hi All,
A couple of weeks ago I posted that my dog bloated. He is fine and didn't
need surgery. But the vet said to feed 2 -3 small meals a day. I am having
trouble getting my brain to figure this out. Am I supposed to feed him
something big so that he can chew, but take it away after he only eats a
little? Since "the incident" I have only been feedng him cut up meat, a
few chicken necks, and a couple of very small chicken leg quarters. He is a
little confused. He really really liked it when he used to get big meals
thrown his way. I am worried that taking away his food on a regular basis
when he hasn't eaten much will make him anxious about meal time. Any
suggestions? He is an 11 yr old Golden that weighs a little over 75lbs. He
has never been a gulper and I don't want to turn him into one....

Thanks,
Trish

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[rawfeeding] Re: yucky smell after organ meats

Hey Jen,

I know--liver seems the worst. Try latex gloves! I get them at Costco.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "addicted 2 my pc" <mmoy1191@...>
wrote:
> hate the smell left on your hands after it all, yuck, takes lots of
soap to get them back to normal , hate that job the most, feel like a
mad professor

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[rawfeeding] Re: Food Aggression [was: where do you feed your dogs...]

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rachelerm" <rachel@> wrote:
> >
> > I thought the "if you growl you
> > lose your food" thing made sense, but have I just made the
> > whole thing
> > worse by actually demonstrating that I *am* competition for his
> > food???
>
> I think the best way to handle a problem like this is to give the
> dog a little more food when you walk close instead of taking away
> from him. Give him a small piece of something extra tastey.
> Something he really likes. In my case, that would be a small piece
> of beef heart. This gives the pup something positive to associate
> with you coming close to him whlle he eats.
>
> Often times people who mess with their dogs by taking food away
> while they are eating just to see if they can often create the very
> problem they are trying to avoid. I have seen this happen many
many
> times in my training practice.

One thing you absolutely need to be sure you do NOT do is just teach
him not to growl. You need to teach him that it is OK that you are
by his food. Otherwise he will stop growling, but may one day
attack "without warning" because he is still guarding but you have
taught him not to growl (the "warning"). Its called "taking the
ticker out of the time bomb.."

I suggest the book MINE! by Jean Donaldson. It is a small book all
about resource guarding. Bill is right, you need to teach him that
having you by is food is a good thing, because even you have to take
it this time, you usually replace it with something BETTER!

Kathy r

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[rawfeeding] Re: Hi, I'm new!

Hi Felicia!

I am vegetarian as well. I am about to switch to raw, but have been
feeding home cooked food for a few weeks. It was strange to have meat
in the house at first, but when I saw home much my dog loved it, it
made it more than worth it! I'm not sure what your reasons are for
being a vegetarian, but if it's because of factory farming practices,
you could try to find some free range meat. I would like to feed all
free range some day, but I haven't found an affordable source yet. I'm
going to try to find some local farmers in the area. Anyway, I just
keep in mind that dogs can't help the fact that the farming industry is
corrput. Being an omnivore, I don't need meat, but dogs don't really
have a choice!

-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Felicia M. Powers" <greenmomma@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello, Raw Feeders!
>I am interested in switching to a raw diet for them, but I
> have one small hang up: we're vegetarians. It's been a while since I
> touched meat, walking past the butcher case really skeeves me out.
But I
> know that meat is what my dogs need for optimal nutrition, so I am
going to
> start by educating myself so I can do what is best for them.
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Felicia

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[rawfeeding] Re: TURKEY GIZZARDS

I guess that depends on the size of the dog and the number of gizzards
fed. My sister's chi often eats a meal of turkey gizzards (about 3 or
4 of them) without incident. I personally don't think of them
as "rich" like I would heart or liver.

Andrea

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[rawfeeding] new puppy, how much to feed?

I adopted a new puppy last night, he's estimated to be 3.5 months old
(stray, so not sure) and a black lab mix. I'm guessing he's going to be
around 80 pounds fully grown. I feed my older dog raw, but I can't remember
what percentages puppies are supposed to get. I appreciate any advice you
all can give me on rawfeeding a puppy. He had kibble in the shelter, of
course, so tonight will be his first raw meal. Thank you!!

Jen

--
The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
-Mahatma Gandhi

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[rawfeeding] Re: beef heart

Thanks -- Good to know that it was just a small mistake -- is there
anything I can do to firm him up today -- other than feeding a boney
meal -- chicken perhaps. Should I feed some pumpkin??
Alicia
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ajoebgen" <ajoebgen@> wrote:
>
> > I fed my border beef heart for breakfast yesterday and kideny for
> > dinner
>
> Oops, if that was the first experience with heart and liver you might
> be in for quite a clean up today!

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: disdaining liver - need encouragement

Mine don't like chicken liver, but I tried beef liver yesterday and they
ate it right away - but it WAS partially frozen. I can also get them to
eat chicken liver if I whir it in the blender w/ an egg (shell & all)
and some brewer's yeast.

Virginia in Milwaukee

> Have you tried serving it to him as a liver-icicle? Neither of mine
> wanted anything to do with liver the first few times, so I took the
> advice of a lovely member here and froze it for a couple hours. I made
> them do a couple tricks, then they got the liversicle as their reward.
> They were confused for a bit, but ate it. I repeated that a few times,
> and happily they'll now eat liver any way I serve it. For my pups, it
> seems to have been a texture issue.

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[rawfeeding] If I give a whole chicken, how do I serve it?

Please don't laugh, I'm serious. Do I just flop it into a bowl? Do I need
to cut it apart? Should I at least slice the skin open so puppies see/smell
the "juice"?

I'm feeding our 75 lb. Labbie and 50 lb. Golden. Are they big enough to
handle an intact bird? I'm worried they won't know what to do with a
chicken on the floor. My poor dogs don't get any meat scraps since we don't
eat meat.

Also, our kibble is Evo, which is supposed to be the closest thing to raw in
a bag. I don't understand how that can be since it's obviously cooked.
Anyway, should I wean from their kibble and gradually go to meat or just
thrown down a chicken and reserve the rest of the kibble for a rainy day?
We just opened a new 28 lb. bag. Should I finish it out and then switch?
The manufacturer says you can alternate between raw and Evo, so I thought
maybe I can save it for next time we go out of town & the girls have to
check into the kennel. I'm not sure how the kennel would feel about feeding
raw, I'm sure they'd rather handle kibble.

Last question - our lab has had some digestive discomfort with loose
stools. I'm sure she ate something she shouldn't have. Should I wait until
that resolves itself before starting the switch, or just give them the bird
even if she has a tummy ache?

I might be making this harder than it has to be. Do I really just throw a
chicken on the floor and let them have at it? That sounds too easy. Thanks
in advance for your input.

Felicia

--------------------------------------------------------

http://reduce-reuse-repsycho.blogspot.com/

Haiku are easy

But sometimes they don't make sense

Refrigerator

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[rawfeeding] Re: Whole lamb necks

My two Frenchies LOVE 'em. They are a perfect RMB meal!
Suz

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Re: [rawfeeding] my greyhound

Unfortunately, she will no longer eat anything. 2 of her teeth are down to the dentine and the gums looked infected. And this was with good care of her teeth. Due to all of her dental problems, we are going on Tue to at least fix up what he can to start fresh as I know she is in real pain. I have been trying to give her raw chicken, but she wont even pull on it, and I know she loves chicken. I have given her some yogurt(sensitive stomach) and rescue in her water to help. I will try ground meat to see if I can entice her, but I have noticed since we got her, when she hurts, she does not eat. As the poor girl has 4 left feet, she gets hurt from time to time going in circles around our yard, which is why she only raced 1 race before they were done with her. Their loss our gain. I am hoping again tonight to entice her to eat something.....thanks to all you greyhound people for your help. The blood in her mouth must really make her feel horrid, I know I have had enough in mine
to feel sick with my dental problems. We will work on this so it never happens again....I need all the help I can get as it is so overwhelming reading all the posts. Kathleen

Shannon Parker <mrbatisse@yahoo.ca> wrote: Hi Kathleen,

I am the owner of a 12 year old greyhound who used to have TERRIBLE teeth. She had 2 dentistries while on kibble and honestly, after 3 months you would never know she had them done. When I finally started her on raw (7 months ago) she had red gums, gross breath (people would not ride in a car with her) lots of plaque and was looking to need a cleaning. I'd say within 3 weeks her teeth were noticably whiter and now, WOW they are beautiful! Considering the risks associated with greyhound anesthesia, I would hold off the dentistry for a bit..until she's been on raw for a while. Not only will you have a chance to let her teeth be naturally cleaned, but if she does end up needing the cleaning, she will be a more healthy dog going under anesthesia.

I started my grey on ground bone/chicken mixtures and now she is eating chicken frames, legs, breasts, pork and beef ribs, and other assorted meats. If you have a meat grinder, great...grind your own (chicken necks grind pretty easy, but I think any harder bones might ruin your grinder), if not perhaps you can find a butcher in your area that will grind bone...some will. Once her mouth is feeling better you'll be able to give her bone-in meat without grinding.

I hope this helps!

Shannon

Kathleen <kbabcock1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Since adopting her, she has never been fond of kibble. Now that her breath smells of blood, her gums look horrid and plaque abounds, we are getting her teeth done. 33

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[rawfeeding] Re: beef heart

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ajoebgen" <ajoebgen@...> wrote:
>
> If beef heart
> considered beef or organ meat??

Alicia,
For our purposes, beef heart is muscle meat although it is very rich
meat and if fed in extremes can cause runny stools in some dogs. I
never feed a meal of exclusively beef heart. It is always in
addition to the regular meal similar to organs but in greater
quanity than organs. My Great Danes usually get a 1/2 pound of
heart each mixed in a regular meal 2 or 3 times a week.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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[rawfeeding] Re: beef heart

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ajoebgen" <ajoebgen@...> wrote:

> I fed my border beef heart for breakfast yesterday and kideny for
> dinner

Oops, if that was the first experience with heart and liver you might
be in for quite a clean up today! Heart is considered a muscle for
raw feeding purposes, but it can really loosen up stools at first.
The next time you feed heart, feed a smaller amount with some boney
part to balance it out. Eventually your dog will probably be able to
tolerate a whole heart meal. Of course, if this was the first
experience with kidney as well, you might be ok on the amount of each,
just not when fed in the same day. You're on the right track, though.

Andrea

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[rawfeeding] Starting raw on Sunday

Hey everyone,

Just to refresh, I have a dog with IBD that is currently on a home
cooked diet. He was doing pretty well, but a couple days ago, he had
a really bad relapse. So, I'm ready to go all in on the raw thing,
and I'm starting this Sunday. I'm waiting until Sunday because Kai's
daddy is "not sure" about feeding raw, but he's leaving for a two
week business trip on Sunday. I figure that if he gets back in two
weeks and everything is going smoothly, that will help him make up
his mind. ;-)

I'm trying chicken, because he may do fine on raw chicken. (He
is "allergic" to chicken in kibble... we think.) Anyway, I got some
bone in chicken breast and a couple of fryers at the store. I'm
going to start with the chicken breast (skin off) but I picked up the
fryers because they were on sale. Kai weighs 22 lbs, so the fryers
needed to be cut into about 6 pieces to make 9-11 ounce hunks. I cut
up the first one already, but is there any particular way they are
supposed to be cut? I kind of just hacked it up willy nilly, the
easiest way it would come apart. The breast is kind of expensive, so
would it be okay to get some chicken leg quarters and then just add
some meat? (I think I read that the quarters are too boney?)

For those of you with IBD dogs, was there a period of adjustment? If
he has a reaction, it will be hard to tell weather it's from the
chicken, or just an adjustment from the raw diet. I know every dog
is different, but I'd like to get an idea of what a typical reaction
is versus an atypical reaction. I hope he is okay with the chicken
though, because it will be more difficult if he's not.

Thanks!
-Melissa W

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[rawfeeding] Re: Another newbie needs help

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sue Jamison <shafferkamp@...>
wrote:
>
> But through trial and error - I think he has problems with
> chicken and grains. Most of what I have read has you start out
> with chicken. If I can't do that - what meats would be best?

Sue,
I would bet that the problem is from grains and not chicken. Many
dogs who have had problems with chicken in kibble have no problems
with raw chicken. Right now I can't remember one single dog that
has had problems with raw chicken but I'm sure there have been a
few. If you want to begin raw feeding with something that is not
chicken, you could feed pork.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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[rawfeeding] TURKEY GIZZARDS

Hi sorry for the caps. They are mostly so I can find my own post!

I wanted to know if Turkey Gizzards are rich, or if they are a normal
balanced type food for dogs. i.e. will they cause diarrhea?

Thanks,
Darlyne

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[rawfeeding] Re: Food Aggression [was: where do you feed your dogs...]

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rachelerm" <rachel@...> wrote:
>
> I thought the "if you growl you
> lose your food" thing made sense, but have I just made the
> whole thing
> worse by actually demonstrating that I *am* competition for his
> food???

I think the best way to handle a problem like this is to give the
dog a little more food when you walk close instead of taking away
from him. Give him a small piece of something extra tastey.
Something he really likes. In my case, that would be a small piece
of beef heart. This gives the pup something positive to associate
with you coming close to him whlle he eats.

Often times people who mess with their dogs by taking food away
while they are eating just to see if they can often create the very
problem they are trying to avoid. I have seen this happen many many
times in my training practice.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Runny bowel movements-Felix

I have read a lot about raw feeding these past few days, and every time I saw information about runny stools the answer was always the same, canned pumkin(not the pie filling), plain pumpkin. I don't know if the group agrees with this, but loose stools are no laughing matter as dehydration is right behind. I hope this helps, but I cannot say as I am new at this and just starting, but do have a lot of information from many sources.
Kathleen

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[rawfeeding] Chicken Necks

Hi. I have recently started my dogs on a raw diet. I have a 3 year old
French Bulldog and a 6 month old Bullmastiff. Whenever I feed chicken necks
(usually at dinner time) my Bullmastiff will vomit up a few small pieces of bone
the next morning almost as soon as he wakes up. He will then eat them again
and not have another problem. I have noticed this only happens with chicken
necks and not with wings. Any thoughts? As of right now I have stopped
feeding the necks because I feel bad that it makes him vomit every time he eats
them. Thanks for any advice.

Carol in FL

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[rawfeeding] Re: Am I doing this right?

Laura Sherman <laurac2cheshire@...> wrote:

> I found www.rawdogranch.com to be very helpful.

This site is certainly better than it used to be, but the author is
still confused about a few things. Read it if it helps you get
started, sure, but if it raises any concerns, please bring them back
here.

Her ideas about supplementation, grinding ("if your dog has clean
teeth, no need to grind" sounds just SO bass-ackwards to me), and
recreational bones are just outdated and incorrect. Not to mention the
whole calculator and ensuing rigidity in day-to-day feeding -- it's
unnecessary, and for some, enough to scare them off.

At least the veggies aren't as important in her feeding plan as they
usedtawas.

-- sandy & griffin

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[rawfeeding] Re: beef heart

Alicia wrote:

>Hi -- I am kind of new to this and have just start varying my dogs diet
>from chicken and turkey to beef and organ meat. If beef heart
>considered beef or organ meat?? I fed my border beef heart for
>breakfast yesterday and kideny for dinner and he has runny stools and
>was up during the night. I fed turkey this morning hoping to firm him
>up -- I'm out to the store to buy chicken now.
>So was it too much beef -- or too much organ??

Laura Atkinson answered this nicely in May:
>http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/129169

Lora
Evanston, IL

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[rawfeeding] Re: still confused about tripe

Joanne wrote:

>As you may recall I bought a 2 lb. container of frozen tripe. I'm thawing it
>now to refreeze in portion sizes. What I don't really understand is....what
>exactly is tripe and does it count as organs? Meat?

Green or raw or unprocessed tripe is one or more of the stomachs of an
herbivore, usually beef.

I feed it in small quantities in addition to and along with their main meal,
so I don't classify it as either.

It's great that you have it, the dogs will love it, and you will be amazed
that it could smell that bad.

Remember . . . "80/10/10" is nothing more than an approximation of a prey
animal's proportion, to use as a guide when feeding parts over time. Tripe is
stomach, so it's a quite small percentage of an entire prey animal. Feed a
little now and then.

Lora
Evanston, IL

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[rawfeeding] Re: Am I doing this right?

"missy7880529" <toddashaffer@...> wrote:

> So after all my research this is how I think I should start raw
> feeding. Daisy is a one year old lab/flat coat retriever cross.
> 52#. Prior to adoption she was eating cheap kibble. I am going to
> start giving just chicken backs for two weeks. About a pound a day
> and adjust up or down. Then I will slowly add more more meat, one
> type at a time so she isn't eating just chicken. Did I get that
> right?

I am just going to make one little, eensy change to the above, and it
will all be just dandy. Take this sentence:
"I am going to start giving just chicken backs for two weeks."

And make it say THIS instead:
"I am going to start giving just whole chickens for two weeks."

And you'll be off to a grand start.

Chicken BACKS are sad little bony things, bereft of meaningful meat.
What you really want to feed is something more like a whole critter:
mostly meat, with just enough edible bone to hold it all together,
and some organs tucked away inside. Grocery-store-whole chickens are
pretty close to that, to start with.

For newbies, I think the vast majority of questions are answered by a
couple days of keeping up to date with ALL new posts -- all
questions, all answers, everything we discuss. You could always go
back in time, on the archives, and start a few days ago if you don't
want to wait for a few days' new messages.

-- sandy & griffin

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[rawfeeding] Re: need dog food suggestions....

This has helped me

http://www.hare-today.com/feed.php#feedcalc

Lori

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[rawfeeding] Re: New Puppies

"frustrated_tracey" <wagc@...> wrote:

> I just got 2 new standard Poodle puppies and have started to feed raw.
> Luckily I hunt and if I'm lucky can get 6 deer during the hunting
> season, I can also get Moose,

How completely marvelous. Congratulations on the new pups, and on
being such a wonderful raw-food provider.

also I asked the butcher in the next town
> for leftover bones and such ( he said just callin advance)

I wouldn't think you'd want leftover bones, really -- very little of
the diet needs to be edible bone -- but meat / fat trim would be just
dandy.

> I can get free liver Heart and other parts of the animal
> (either Beef, lamb, pig).

Yes, yes, and yes. All these are wonderful.

So wonderful that I might just move there.

> How much food should they eat. I gave them a chicken drumette and
> there is some leftover they also devoured some beef liver.

Per day, they should have something like 2-3% of their adult body
weight. Standards should be, what, as much as 65 or 70# as adults?
I'd say start out with 2 pounds a day, split over at least 3 meals. So
FEED those puppies. Go easy on the liver -- it can produce loose
stools. Maybe try whole chickens, whacked into feedable parts.

I also saw your post about your older dog, and I concur completely with
Sandee. Get that little girl going on raw so she doesn't have to be
jealous of the pups for TOO much!

-- sandy & griffin

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[rawfeeding] Dark Red tongue

I have a question. I have noticed since I started feeding my dog raw
that the colour of his tongue has become a darker red. Is this common?
Or do I need to worry?

Pauline

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[rawfeeding] Re: need dog food suggestions....

IF not Wal-Mart then to the butcher? Oh the bag of chicken quarters was $4.50 at Wal-Mart for a 10lbs bag. So I bought two. However I took them out (b/c I know trust the bag to start leaking blood) and found 8 quarters of chicken per 10lbs. I was told from a raw feeding friend that they would each eat 1lb. a day. Is this about right? If so, do I just guesstimate? I heard there is a calculator to figure out how much each dog should be eating. Do you know that website? I copied the list you sent me of what NOT to buy from Wal-Mart and I will keep it with me in my purse. IS that just a Wal mart thing? Or don't buy that stuff anywhere?
Laura
Proud Mommy to Miss Samantha (9 years old going on 16! LOL!!) and step mom to Heather -17, Nikki - 14 and Michelle - 8 - the most beautiful girls in the world!!!!!
Mom to furbabies: Snoopy (male - neutered - 9 month old - pit mix - 60lbs.) and Zoey (super smart deaf female - spayed - 5 month old - pit mix - approx. 30lbs.)

http://www.myspace.com/dreaming_fairy_23
http://groups.myspace.com/dogloversinfayetteville

Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:04 pm (PST)
"LaUrA" <laurasue17@...> wrote:
*****
Here's what you don't want to buy from Wal-Mart:
tripe
tripas/intestines
chitterlings
smoked bones, smoked meat
corned beef brisket
party wings
drumettes

I'm sure there are more, but these seem to be foods that have special
(and inappropriate) allure.
Chris O

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Feed Pets Raw Food

Friday, June 15, 2007

Re: [rawfeeding] new to group

Re: [rawfeeding] Re: yucky smell after organ meats

Re: [rawfeeding] new to group

Re: [rawfeeding] yucky smell after organ meats

[rawfeeding] Re: If I really fed them like they eat in the wild....

[rawfeeding] new to group

[rawfeeding] Re: fresh trout......yes, I am a newbie!

Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Runny bowel movements-Felix

[rawfeeding] Re: Peach pit snack

Re: [rawfeeding] yucky smell after organ meats

[rawfeeding] Cat needing raw help, me too

[rawfeeding] Re: Am I doing this right?

[rawfeeding] Whiting

[rawfeeding] Feeding bloat dog

[rawfeeding] Re: yucky smell after organ meats

[rawfeeding] Re: Food Aggression [was: where do you feed your dogs...]

[rawfeeding] Re: Hi, I'm new!

[rawfeeding] Re: TURKEY GIZZARDS

[rawfeeding] new puppy, how much to feed?

[rawfeeding] Re: beef heart

Re: [rawfeeding] Re: disdaining liver - need encouragement

[rawfeeding] If I give a whole chicken, how do I serve it?

[rawfeeding] Re: Whole lamb necks

Re: [rawfeeding] my greyhound

[rawfeeding] Re: beef heart

[rawfeeding] Re: beef heart

[rawfeeding] Starting raw on Sunday

[rawfeeding] Re: Another newbie needs help

[rawfeeding] TURKEY GIZZARDS

[rawfeeding] Re: Food Aggression [was: where do you feed your dogs...]

Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Runny bowel movements-Felix

[rawfeeding] Chicken Necks

[rawfeeding] Re: Am I doing this right?

[rawfeeding] Re: beef heart

[rawfeeding] Re: still confused about tripe

[rawfeeding] Re: Am I doing this right?

[rawfeeding] Re: need dog food suggestions....

[rawfeeding] Re: New Puppies

[rawfeeding] Dark Red tongue

[rawfeeding] Re: need dog food suggestions....

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