Feed Pets Raw Food

Monday, July 30, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11862

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Need some help here.
From: cmhausrath
1b. Re: Need some help here.
From: marblekallie

2a. Suggestions, he wont eat raw anymore
From: abooot99
2b. Re: Suggestions, he wont eat raw anymore
From: Chia
2c. Re: Suggestions, he wont eat raw anymore
From: Denise Strother
2d. Re: Suggestions, he wont eat raw anymore
From: Nathalie Poulin
2e. HOW LONG CAN I HOLD OUT NOT FEEDING STUBBORN CAT :(
From: alliecaracleo

3a. Re: next best thing
From: cmhausrath
3b. Re: next best thing
From: Chia
3c. Re: next best thing
From: marblekallie

4. Re: Newbie to puppy rawfeeding, and fat question
From: a.flynn@optusnet.com.au

5a. Re: How much raw food should I be feeding a day?
From: brandy smolen
5b. Re: How much raw food should I be feeding a day?
From: brandy smolen

6a. Feeding and spices
From: Susanne MacLeod
6b. Re: Feeding and spices
From: pet.wellness

7a. Re: Buffalo Heart
From: Morledzep@aol.com

8a. Re: salmon caused illness?
From: lhmcmaken
8b. Re: salmon caused illness?
From: Morledzep@aol.com
8c. Re: salmon caused illness?
From: Sandee Lee
8d. Re: salmon caused illness?
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: offal variety - how necessary?
From: zest_741

10a. Re: Orange Roughly from NZ
From: Morledzep@aol.com

11. Going fishin'...have questions
From: jre_l

12a. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
From: dancingbarefoot_11

13a. Re: reddness from meat???
From: linoleum5017


Messages
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1a. Re: Need some help here.
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:04 pm ((PDT))

"Margaret" <margaret.abate@...> wrote:

> About 3 weeks ago, Kiera just stopped eating her bones, haven't a
clue
> why, her mouth is fine, it's been checked, so i can't understand
it.
> I would be very grateful if anyone has any ideas on this.


Alas, I don't have any ideas, at least not yet, but I do have a lot
of questions. The more information you can provide the list, the
better the answers you'll get. So:

Is she eating the rest of her meals, just leaving the bones?
What does "the rest of her meals" look like?
What exactly are you feeding?
What do you do when she refuses food? (In detail, please.)
Is she losing weight?
How thoroughly was her mouth checked? (Just a visual look-over by
you, or some more intensive inspection?)
What kind of dog is Kiera, and how old is she?

I believe I read an older post with this same question, where you
said that she'd been refusing her bones since you'd returned from a
vacation. My first suspicion -- having a sensitive dog myself --
would be that she was stressed by your absence, then further stressed
when you returned (joy at being reunited may be a happy emotion, but
it's still a stressful one), and that she stopped eating normally in
response to that stress. If you're like many of us, your first
temptation when the dog stops eating is to baby her and try to tempt
her into eating something ... which can spiral into this dog-
manipulating-owner thing. But your answers to the above questions
could confirm or deny my suspicions. At any rate, I suspect we need
more information to be helpful.

-- sandy & griffin, always more questions than answers

Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: Need some help here.
Posted by: "marblekallie" marble@pipeline.com marblekallie
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:43 pm ((PDT))

Hi:

If there is nothing in her mouth, is there anything going on with her
ears? My dog did the same thing when an ear infection was bothering
her.

Philippa Jordan
New York City

> About 3 weeks ago, Kiera just stopped eating her bones, haven't a
clue
> why, her mouth is fine, it's been checked, so i can't understand it.
> I would be very grateful if anyone has any ideas on this.


Messages in this topic (4)
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________________________________________________________________________

2a. Suggestions, he wont eat raw anymore
Posted by: "abooot99" abooot99@yahoo.com abooot99
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:11 pm ((PDT))

Hi all,
I have been reading all along for the last two months now about the
whole raw diet thing and started two months ago feeding my shephard
1 yr old. At first he was eating every piece of meat I placed in
front of him. Over the last two or so weeks, he seemed to stop
eating as much and he turns his nose up to most of the meats I
offer. He hates pork- He wouldn't even touch it, he loved liver
frozen but he wont eat that now and he did like the gizzards but not
anymore. He did love chicken at one time but even this he seems
reluctant to eat. I feel like I waste more meat than he consumes. I
give him his food outside and since he hasn't eaten it, we now have
a turkey vulcher always circling the property, and he swoops down
and steals his meat now. The only two meats he will eat now is
ground beef- loves it and ground turkey. I tried giving him left
over bravo ground rabbit and he makes the "ew" face at me. He has
been nothing but more and more picky and its driving me crazy.... I
bought sweet bread and he didn't touch it, he used to gobble down
beef heart but he wont touch that now too. I am getting frusterated,
wasting this meat he won't eat. I even tried searing the chicken on
the grill to at least warm it up but he didn't exactly jump at that
either. He has normal activity and doesn't act different besides at
dinner time. Please help.....

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Suggestions, he wont eat raw anymore
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:48 pm ((PDT))

I have been reading all along for the last two months now about the
whole raw diet thing and started two months ago feeding my shephard
1 yr old. At first he was eating every piece of meat I placed in
front of him. Over the last two or so weeks, he seemed to stop
eating as much and he turns his nose up to most of the meats I
offer. He hates pork- He wouldn't even touch it, he loved liver
frozen but he wont eat that now and he did like the gizzards but not
anymore. He did love chicken at one time but even this he seems
reluctant to eat. I feel like I waste more meat than he consumes. I
give him his food outside and since he hasn't eaten it, we now have
a turkey vulcher always circling the property, and he swoops down
and steals his meat now. The only two meats he will eat now is
ground beef- loves it and ground turkey. I tried giving him left
over bravo ground rabbit and he makes the "ew" face at me. He has
been nothing but more and more picky and its driving me crazy.... I
bought sweet bread and he didn't touch it, he used to gobble down
beef heart but he wont touch that now too. I am getting frusterated,
wasting this meat he won't eat. I even tried searing the chicken on
the grill to at least warm it up but he didn't exactly jump at that
either. He has normal activity and doesn't act different besides at
dinner time. Please help.....


### As long as 'health-wise', everything is cool...his mouth and teeth
are fine, then what you have here is a dog playing you like a fiddle.' You
are offering him this, that and everything..teaching him his behaviour is
acceptable. Essentially, rewarding his pickiness....let him go
hungry...don't emotionalise mealtimes...he won't starve to death, trust me.

Of course he eats most ground, he is enjoying how easy a meal it is. NO
work, no fuss...no oral workout, or mental stimulation.

You just have to toughen up further. Set the food out, without any
emotion. Remove after 15 minutes, without a word...not even an exasperated
look on your face. Do NOT offer ONE thing until 24 hours passes and repeat.
Picky eaters are made, not born and a day or two or three, if need be, will
break this habit. It will be harder on you then your dog BUT you MUST do
this for the best interest and health of your dog. If you don't fix this
prima donna habit soon it will only get worse, trust me.

If the same food goes out for three days, it can go back in the fridge for
those three days. There is no waste..I prefer serving 'ripe' meat myself
and it gives it more aroma. ;-))

If outdoors is not working with a vulture overhead, serve inside on tile,
lino or tablecloth..or in the garage. Find a spot where he can feel it is
his area, teach him to remain there and don't let him play you this way any
longer.

Chia & Ricco (who once wouldn't stubbornly eat for 4 days once...)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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2c. Re: Suggestions, he wont eat raw anymore
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:42 pm ((PDT))

You see these posts all of the time. Your dog will eat what you give
him if he has no other options. At my house, I feed 3 dogs, if I
started letting them tell me what they will and won't eat, I can only
imagine the turmoil and upheaval that would cause. So, I keep it
simple. I thaw something out and give it to the dogs. Anyone not
wishing to participate in meal time is allowed to. But, that does not
mean he/she gets something else. It means it gets that meal again
tomorrow. If one of mine refuses something for 2 or 3 days, then I
might consider giving them something else. But, it has been my
experience that few dogs will miss more than a couple of days before
giving in and eating the formally refused food. BTW, I feed dogs from 3
to 45 lbs, no one gets special treatment. Your dog is playing you and
can only be as picky as you let him be. Denise

Messages in this topic (5)
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2d. Re: Suggestions, he wont eat raw anymore
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:39 pm ((PDT))


Along with the other responses to this, I would say
try feeding real big chunks of meat, no more ground
stuff.
Whole chicken to start with maybe. Someone mentioned
leaving it out for 15 minutes, then put it back in the
fridge.
My dog likes older meat too, so by the 4th or 5th day
(a shoulder lasts her about this long with a
once-a-day-feeding) she chomps right into it.
Don't worry, as long as you stand your ground, your
dog will learn who's boss!

Nathalie


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Messages in this topic (5)
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2e. HOW LONG CAN I HOLD OUT NOT FEEDING STUBBORN CAT :(
Posted by: "alliecaracleo" alliecaracleo@yahoo.com alliecaracleo
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:56 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone.
I am reallllllllllllllly getting aggravated. Everything was going good
for my felines with raw for about a month. I still have one that wont
budge and bought evo(no grain) I know I know but it was 24hrs and she
would eat a lick and then not eat again for another 24 hrs. I am
getting close to the middle of the bag and want to have all 3 on raw. I
have tried everything. Now allie 11y is losing weight which is good
from eating raw, but she know the evo is being fed in another room to
caramia so she runs in there and of course i dont allow her to eat.

I feel bad for her cuz I do this to her. So now she is basically
holding out and eating VERY little (less than an ounce a day)

Do cats have to just eat a morsel, so to speak for kidneys not to go
into whatever they do with not eating for 24hrs? or do they have to
eat a substantial amt? PLEASE HELP SOMEONE. I DONT WANT TO GIVE UP BUT
THIS IS TOO MUCH FOR ME WHEN I AM ILL AT TIMES.

Have a good one and thanks to all........
Denise

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: next best thing
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:13 pm ((PDT))

Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:

> I have a friend that wants to switch his dog to raw. The problem is
> he travels often ;about 2-3 weeks a month with the dog.


I apologize if this sounds snippy, but this is my honest experience
in life: those who really and truly WANT to do something will always
find a way to do it. Likewise, those who do NOT deeply want to do
something -- although they might like the appearance of wanting to do
it -- will always have reasons why they just, goshdarnit, can't do it.

We have a list member -- I'm sorry, I can't recall her name -- who
travels all about North America in an RV with her husband and, if I
recall correctly, four small dogs. They feed raw. Honestly I don't
know exactly what their strategies are, but they do it.


>My question is would it be benefical to feed the dog kibble


No. Kibble is not appropriate food for dogs. I don't care if it's
human-grade fancy-pants $60 a bag kibble -- it's still not species-
appropriate nutrition.

On the other hand!! If you want to rephrase your question -- if your
friend wants to rethink this whole strategy -- I've no doubt we can
be of use. How might your friend travel so extensively WHILE feeding
raw? We are a creative lot, here, and I'm sure there are some
wonderful ideas. (First to my mind: what does your friend himself
eat? And why can't the dog utilize similar food sources? I
sincerely doubt your friend eats nothing but kibble while traveling
for weeks on end!)

But if you're looking for someone to pat you and your friend on the
back and say, there there, you tried, but I guess he can't feed raw --
well, we're not the group to do it.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (7)
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3b. Re: next best thing
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:36 pm ((PDT))


But if you're looking for someone to pat you and your friend on the
back and say, there there, you tried, but I guess he can't feed raw --
well, we're not the group to do it.


### if this man TRULY loves his dog, he would make any and all effort to
care for him properly. If not, if it is too much effort, then he doesn't
deserve such a wonderful animal as a pet.

It's a no brainer. Do the right thing ...plan ahead so you know what the
meal plan is...make the effort. Get a cooler...buy ice along the way...'tis
not rocket science.. He owes his dog the best life possible and should step
up to the plate for the responsibility he has taken on.

Chia & Ricco



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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3c. Re: next best thing
Posted by: "marblekallie" marble@pipeline.com marblekallie
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:42 pm ((PDT))

Hi:

I just took all my dogs to Europe. I took some emergency supplies
just in case it would be difficult to get to a supermarket or a
butcher. I took a dehydrated food that was made from all meat
product -- Stella & Chewy's. I used it just on the day I arrived. It
was too late and too wet to find fresh supplies in a strange place.
The rest of the time it was no problem whereever I went. Fresh meat
can be found everywhere -- easier than dog food.

Philippa Jordan
New York City

>I have a friend that wants to switch his dog to raw. The problem is
he travels often ;about 2-3 weeks a month with the dog. So far we
haven't come up with any way of taking along enough raw food for that
long of a period.

Messages in this topic (7)
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4. Re: Newbie to puppy rawfeeding, and fat question
Posted by: "a.flynn@optusnet.com.au" a.flynn@optusnet.com.au flynn_nn
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:42 pm ((PDT))

Hi Giselle,

Thanks for your reply. That is exactly I have felt....like he is going to STARVE and not grow properly! I have always had large dogs. This is what i said about feeding my mini foxie pup in my original post:

"He weighs about 5lbs and I am feeding him 4 times a day. So far he is getting chicken wings,
lamb chop with a long bone in for him to chew, turkey necks, which he pulls the meat off and beef pieces to make up more meat because of the bony wings, and some chicken liver and
kidney. I have never had a small breed before, nor ever fed a pup raw. He seems to eat a lot
some days and the next morning sometimes will not eat... he will go out and eat grass and
vomit it up with no food coming up (because he hasn't eaten). Then by mid morning or
lunchtime he will eat a meal as normal. Does this mean I have given him too much the evening
before (sometimes he seems very much to be looking for more, so i give him more at those
times)...is this sort of pattern normal? I suspect so but would like some feedback please."

Now when I say he gets chicken wings, he might eat a third of a wing at a meal, half a small lamb chop, or a few inches of a turkey neck as a meal. He will also eats through most of a meaty lamb rib for a meal. He has been offered small, whole fish but wouldn't touch it, but ate some pieces I cut off it. He has beef, lamb or chicken pieces for one meal. I have started to give him a chicken thigh instead of wing as it is meatier.

Of course you are so right that I am just not used to the TINY amounts that tiny dogs eat!! So maybe I have just been expecting him to eat more than he needs. But I was worried about his pattern of going off his food, because I thought it might affect his growth. I did try smearing his chicken with tuna oil yesterday afternoon when he hadn't eaten all day, and he ate his food straight away. But I wondered would he then never eat without me having to make the extra fuss of doing that. But he ate his chicken from the same bird straight up this morning with no fuss at all.

You asked whether I am giving big chunks for him to wrestle with. I wish!!! What I am finding is that he seems completely daunted by big chunks of anything. e.g. I find if I give the chicken thigh (and I mean a rear chicken quarter, without the drumstick) whole, he will look at it and walk away, but if I cut that in half he will put in the effort to eat it. I feel that he is a bit of a lazy eater and I do feel that he is training me to fuss over him, and I so like a dog that just eats!! What size chunks should he be able to handle at his size and age?

Also the thigh pieces, and lamb chops have quite big fatty bits on them. How much fat is too much. I have read that too much fat can cause pancreas problems....is this true?

Thanks, Ann.


Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: How much raw food should I be feeding a day?
Posted by: "brandy smolen" msbrsmolen@yahoo.com msbrsmolen
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:42 pm ((PDT))

Catherine -
Thank you - this is the answer that I have been
waiting for to my question. I have read a few anwsers
that have all been helpful but this one is exactly
what I was looking for - so thank you again!
Brandy
--- Morledzep@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 7/27/2007 9:14:57 PM Pacific
> Standard Time,
> msbrsmolen@yahoo.com writes:
>
> Can someone please give me some examples of what and
> HOW MUCH raw food I
> should be giving my 12 week old american bulldog?
> She a fast growing large breed
> and I don't want her to go to fast but I think I'm
> starving her right now.
>
>
>
> Brandy,
>
> you expect your baby girl to be about 70ish lbs as
> an adult? maybe 80?
>
> so take 80 lbs and figure 3% of 80 lbs = the
> approximate amount she should be
> fed per day.. divided into 2 or 3 meals per day till
> she's around 10 months -
> 1 year.
>
> Catherine R.
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak
> peek of the all-new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


____________________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (6)
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5b. Re: How much raw food should I be feeding a day?
Posted by: "brandy smolen" msbrsmolen@yahoo.com msbrsmolen
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:57 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for the links - it sounds so simple - I love it
and I know she will too!
Brandy

--- Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote:

> Brandy,
>
> Feed her lots and lots of meat, a little bone and
> some organs. Here are a
> few recent puppy feeding messages.....
>
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135757
>
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135847
>
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/137170
>
> No kibble, OK???????
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "brandy smolen" <msbrsmolen@yahoo.com>
>
>
> > Can someone please give me some examples of what
> and HOW MUCH raw food I
> should be giving my 12 week old american bulldog?
> She a fast growing large
> breed and I don't want her to go to fast but I think
> I'm starving her right
> now.
> > And if anyone has a good book to recommend that
> would be great too. At
> this point I am getting so frusterated that I am
> tempted to feed her kibble
> until I know more about this diet and the guidlines
> how to feed her.
>
>


____________________________________________________________________________________
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http://sims.yahoo.com/


Messages in this topic (6)
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6a. Feeding and spices
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:42 pm ((PDT))

You guys are gonna think I'm nuts, but I live alone and LOVE a great
ribeye. It's always way way too big. On the weekend I bought a piece
of wild coho salmon. So I spice it up - to my liking - a little garlic
power, salt, pepper, some worchestire, and maybe a bit of mustard
powder. Then I toss it on the BBQ. Now I enjoy my steak rare to med
rare. Anyhow, I always have at least half of it left, and I'm not a
big leftover fan. So I wash of the spices and give it to the kids.
This happens maybe once every 10 days or so. I kinda like having
dinner with my guys. At $16.99/lb, I hope they like it too.
Is there any harm in this - other then the furkids, stealing my credit
card and calling the local butcher for delivery? LOL Just kidding. I
know my kids are spoiled, but I couldn't give a damn.
Suz Kate and Joey

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: Feeding and spices
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:09 pm ((PDT))

Spices aren't part of a wolf diet, but I doubt that it causes a
problem if they eat it - and like it - occasionally. I'd be more
concerned about cooked bones. Pamela

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Susanne MacLeod" <suzmacleod@...>
wrote:
>
> You guys are gonna think I'm nuts, but I live alone and LOVE a great
> ribeye. It's always way way too big. On the weekend I bought a piece
> of wild coho salmon. So I spice it up - to my liking - a little garlic
> power, salt, pepper, some worchestire, and maybe a bit of mustard


Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: Buffalo Heart
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:43 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 7/30/2007 4:42:52 AM Pacific Standard Time,
onejoyfulmoose@yahoo.com writes:

At 99 cents/lb it isn't costly for me to obtain. And, they're close
to where my Aunt lives so even if they didn't ship I can stock up
when I go in that direction.



Carol,

$.99 lb is a great price for pork or beef muscle meat. i wouldn't pay that
for buffalo heart when i can get beef heart for $.59 lb or less.. it looks
exactly the same to me and the dogs seem to like the beef heart better anyway.

Catherine R.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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8a. Re: salmon caused illness?
Posted by: "lhmcmaken" lhmcmaken@yahoo.com lhmcmaken
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:57 pm ((PDT))

how do you make sure the salmon is safe to feed? My husband is able
to catch salmon in pudget sound and I want to feed the fish to my
newly raw danes. thanks.
take care
lynda

Messages in this topic (6)
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8b. Re: salmon caused illness?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:21 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 7/30/2007 3:58:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
lhmcmaken@yahoo.com writes:

how do you make sure the salmon is safe to feed? My husband is able
to catch salmon in pudget sound and I want to feed the fish to my
newly raw danes. thanks.



Lynda,

Freeze it solid.. some say a few days is enough, i would feel better about
more than a week.. even two weeks or a month would make me happier.

and it just makes my day that you can catch salmon in puget sound.. there is
a significant chance that i could be moving up there in the very near future.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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8c. Re: salmon caused illness?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:30 pm ((PDT))

Here ya go, Lynda!

http://www.ocean.udel.edu/MAS/seafood/raw.html
It's important to remember that adequate freezing and/or cooking
eliminates infection by the parasites. In commercial freezing, a
temperature of -40 °F kills any parasite in 15 hours. In a home
freezer, at 0° to 10°F, it can take up to five days to kill all the
parasites, especially in large fish.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "lhmcmaken" <lhmcmaken@yahoo.com>


how do you make sure the salmon is safe to feed? My husband is able
to catch salmon in pudget sound and I want to feed the fish to my
newly raw danes.

Messages in this topic (6)
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8d. Re: salmon caused illness?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:28 pm ((PDT))

"lhmcmaken" <lhmcmaken@...> wrote:
>
> how do you make sure the salmon is safe to feed? My husband is able
> to catch salmon in pudget sound and I want to feed the fish to my
> newly raw danes.
*****
You freeze it. Solid. After the fish is totally froze through, leave
it in the freezer for a week or two, depending on the capabilities of
your freezer. If you have a really iffy freezer, leave the fish in
there for a month.

If you cannot get comfortable with frozen PNW salmon, don't feed it to
you Danes, cook it for yourselves. It's a fine thing--wild salmon--but
it shouldn't oughta make you crazy. It's not worth it.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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9a. Re: offal variety - how necessary?
Posted by: "zest_741" zest_741@yahoo.com.au zest_741
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:09 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for the advice everyone, sounds like I am worrying a bit too
much.

There aren't any co-ops around here or much variety on-line - I'm in
Oz so not quite the same 'critical mass' of raw feeders to support
that yet it seems.

One response said advice is worth what you pay for it - I'm not
quite of that view, I'll listen to the well-informed enthusiast
everytime! (and then make up my own mind, of course:))

Thanks
Kerry


Messages in this topic (5)
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10a. Re: Orange Roughly from NZ
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:12 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 7/30/2007 7:25:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com writes:

Anyone has fed Orange Roughly before?



Yassy,

here Orange Roughy is a high priced fish.. i order it once inawhile at a
restaurant, but i don't buy it for the dogs, it's far too expensive to be wolf
chow (keep in mind that i have 9 LARGE dogs).

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (3)
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11. Going fishin'...have questions
Posted by: "jre_l" kcjre@comcast.net jre_l
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:29 pm ((PDT))

I'm visiting the folks in the Ozarks and we are heading out
fishing. I wanted to get some comments/suggestions on the following:

blue gill (have about 3 dozen so far)
trout (mostly rainbow)
crawdads (about 2-3 inch long)
bass (heads and guts only)
catfish

Any reason NOT to feed any of the above? Also, can I leave the fins
on? I assume so as Kaiya has had whole mackeral, flounder and
tilapia (all store bought) with no problem. I assume I take the
catfish fins off...can I just cut them off or is there like a pocket
of poison I have to look for?

Crawdads...I think they may be in their soft shell stage right now,
but either way what about the claws?

How long to freeze before feeding?

Sorry so many questions, I just don't want to mess up a great thing
(raw feeding!) when it has gone SO well!

Carrie


Messages in this topic (1)
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12a. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
Posted by: "dancingbarefoot_11" dancingbarefoot_11@yahoo.com dancingbarefoot_11
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:31 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Denise <DeniseAndZac@...> wrote:
" my dogger prefers his food frozen too. Why is THAT? The distant DNA
> relative wolves certainly didn't eat frozen food."


Silly Human, what happens in winter? Wolves up here (Northern
Wisconsin)eat frozen meat. I have even seen them eat silage, the cow's
sweet feed and poop from deer, cows and horses too


Kris

Messages in this topic (11)
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13a. Re: reddness from meat???
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:33 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Ivette Casiano <ivettecasiano@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm a newbie, have been feeding my 7 yr. yellow lab raw ...is it
possible for his fur around his elbows and paws to get orange due to
feeding red meats?
> Ivette

Just an odd thought that your grass might have 'red thread' mildew?
It causes a 'rusty' looking fungus to grow, making the grass look
orange. If a dog were to lie in it, it might get orange elbows...?????

Linoleum

Messages in this topic (3)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11861

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: feeding game birds to hunting dogs
From: blacty

2a. Re: offal variety - how necessary?
From: carnesbill
2b. Re: offal variety - how necessary?
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: Starting raw with a surgery near
From: carnesbill
3b. Re: Starting raw with a surgery near
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: another newbie question
From: carnesbill

5a. Re: reddness from meat???
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: salmon caused illness?
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: yassy, meat variety
From: Yasuko herron

8a. Re: Orange Roughly from NZ
From: Yasuko herron

9a. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
From: Tracy
9b. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
From: costrowski75
9c. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
From: Denise
9d. Re: A Eureka Moment....(frozen food)
From: chaparraltrail
9e. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
From: cresco299

10a. Need some help here.
From: Margaret
10b. Re: Need some help here.
From: Margaret Martell

11a. Re: Rabbit?
From: Shannon Hully
11b. Re: Rabbit?
From: scarebetty

12a. next best thing
From: Felicia Kost
12b. Re: next best thing
From: chaparraltrail
12c. Re: next best thing
From: Erica Mills
12d. traveling (was Re: next best thing
From: Laurie Swanson

13a. S/O disapproves
From: brake4breyers832
13b. Re: S/O disapproves
From: Sandee Lee


Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: feeding game birds to hunting dogs
Posted by: "blacty" Ty@wetlandsod.com blacty
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:13 am ((PDT))

Very good point Chris. My Golden and Setter are very well trained and
obedient. I have no problem controling them in any situation. I
would have to agree with you that if they retrieve and eat the bird,
you have more of a training issue on hand. My dogs have never
attemped to do so, so I am not worried. I have a buddy that I hunt
with that devours his doves before he brings them back. Might be a
problem for him!
Thanks Chris!
Ty


--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "blacty" <Ty@> wrote:
> >
> > I was thinking of using my game bird carcases to feed to my bird dogs.
> > Do any of you have any experience doing this? Would I have to worry
> > about my dogs developing a taste for them to where they will eat the
> > bird they are supposed to retrieve?
> *****
> If your hunting dog eats the game it's suppose to hunt, that's a
> training issue not a raw food issue. A trained hunting dog understands
> it may not eat its job. I recommend you review your dog's basic
> training to make sure both of you are clear on the concept.
>
> My retrievers are trained to retrieve the bird in market condition and
> to sit to flush (although sometimes I do have to yell "siddown!"). My
> big Lab retrieves live bitsy baby birds and will not--no way, never, uh-
> uh--eat rabbit or whole fish. My heathen golden bitch that eats whole
> baby goats and rabbits and chickens will kill but otherwise leave
> untouched bunnies that she manages to catch.
>
> It may be that in moments of extreme temptation you dog might break or
> kill a wounded bird, but I also see this in kibblefed dogs. Since it's
> a time honored practice to give the dog heads and guts or the carcass
> after breasting out a duck, my guess is your fears are unfounded IF
> your hunting buddy is properly trained.
>
> If you are still concerned, don't feed the carcasses.
> Chris O
>


Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: offal variety - how necessary?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:15 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "zest_741" <zest_741@...> wrote:
>
> All I can find in offal is liver (pork, chicken, lamb, beef & goat)
> and kidneys (pork and lamb). No procesors or abattoirs that I
> can find
> around here.

I think you are probably feeding as much variety or more than most
of us.

> Are liver and kidneys enough if I rotate between the species?

Probably so.

> I feed each about once a week, is that often enough?

Yes.

> Lamb brains are also available but very expensive, are
> they worthwhile
> enough in nutritional terms to add in once a month or so?

Not in my book. I have never fed any brain except for the
occasional rabbit my dogs get.

> I feed tongue and heart too but class them as meat rather than
> offal.

Right.

> My dogs are both Borzoi, one adult and one 8 month old.
> Thanks in advance, I really need some help!

Remember advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: offal variety - how necessary?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:23 am ((PDT))

"zest_741" <zest_741@...> wrote:
> I have found it easy to get variety in RMB's and meaty cuts, but not
> offal.
> All I can find in offal is liver (pork, chicken, lamb, beef & goat)
> and kidneys (pork and lamb). No procesors or abattoirs that I can
find
> around here.
> Are liver and kidneys enough if I rotate between the species?
> I feed each about once a week, is that often enough?
> Lamb brains are also available but very expensive, are they
worthwhile
> enough in nutritional terms to add in once a month or so?
*****
Liver and kidney is splendid variety is fine. Brains are definitely
worth feeding if they don't break the bank. If you can save up to feed
them once a month, that, too, would be fine.

The goal is to feed a bit of everything; reality is to do the best you
can. I don't think you have a problem.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Starting raw with a surgery near
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:19 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "pigasus718" <pigasus718@...> wrote:
>
> Should I go ahead and start raw, or wait till a couple of days after
> her surgery when her system has had time to recover a little?

It's just a few days, I would wait if it were me.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Starting raw with a surgery near
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:42 am ((PDT))

"pigasus718" <pigasus718@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I'm new here and have been trying to read up on all the posts.
> My question is, I was planning on starting my two on raw for the
> morning meal tomorrow. I found out saturday that my shih tzu,Lilo,
has
> 3 kidney stones and has to have surgery tuesday and can't be fed
after
> 6pm tomorrow.
> Should I go ahead and start raw, or wait
*****
Wait.
You don't need to compound the uncertainty of the surgery. One stress
at a time.

While he's not eating, junk the kibble; then when he can eat, feed
raw.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: another newbie question
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:20 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "quiltingtuppy" <mamacass@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Like would a small dog
> in the wild only catch and feed on a small animal?

There is no such thing as a small dog in the wild. Small dogs are
human creations. To answer your main question, no, there are no breed
appropriate food, only species appropriate.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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5a. Re: reddness from meat???
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:33 am ((PDT))

Ivette Casiano <ivettecasiano@...> wrote:
>
> I'm a newbie, have been feeding my 7 yr. yellow lab raw only a few
months. He's doing well but I'd like to know if it's possible for his
fur around his elbows and paws to get orange due to feeding red meats?
*****
Nope. This is from licking. Raw fed or not, red meat or kibble,
licking is the culprit. What you need to do is figure out why your bud
is licking. Could be a food sensitivity, could be seasonal, could be
stress, could be boredom, could be discomfort.

One of my goldens use to lick his elbow calluses (acquired from lying
on hard surfaces) and yes, the hair there would turn orange (although
on an "orange" golden the color was more dark red than orange). Are
you feeding your Lab on a hard surface and is he inclined to lie down
to dine?

Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: salmon caused illness?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:59 am ((PDT))

"graceacrestraci" <RTGandA@...> wrote:
>
> My 14 month old dog, eating raw for 2 months, is off his feed and
> moping. I fed him raw salmon about 10 days ago of which he threw it
all
> up and then some. I was told afterward salmon has a parasite.
Anyone
> have any knowledge/experience with this?
*****
If you fed fresh, wild caught salmon from the Pacific Northwest
(lower Alaska south to the mid-California coast and west of the
Cascades), you might want to take him to see the vet, although it's
my understanding the aforementioned parasite produces more profound
symptoms than what you describe.

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/ClientED/salmon.asp
"Common symptoms of salmon poisoning include:
vomiting
lack of appetite
fever
diarrhea
weakness
swollen lymph nodes 
dehydration

Salmon poisoning is usually fatal if not treated

If untreated, death usually occurs within fourteen days of eating the
infected fish. Ninety percent of dogs showing symptoms die if they
are not treated. Thankfully, salmon poisoning is treatable if it's
caught in time."

If you did not feed fresh wild caught PNW salmon, then it's something
else. Nevertheless, to me it seems like 10 days is plenty long
enough to feel punkish, so unless you've got other possibilities to
consider (lifestyle change, coincidental illness, weather) a looksee
by the vet may still be in order.

Please let us know what you find out.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: yassy, meat variety
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:04 am ((PDT))

>If that is what is available then thats going to be good enough. But always keep an eye >out for more and different kinds of meat.

Thank you . When I fed Rabbit and when my husband saw palette's not thrilled eating(usually she dives in for food) he once mentioned that if she were not enjoying rabbit,then,once we finish off rabbit then pull from menu,she still eat beef,lamb,Turkey,pork,fish,Buffalo..good enough variety.So,I then thought about asking.
In our area in VA,I think chicken(whole chicken 58cents at Ukrop on sale) and pork (ukrop was dollar something per pound for pork picnic or pork butt I forgot which and I usually see pork ribs are dallar something so,Chicken and pork are quite afforadable for us.

I think that if I like to get cost down,I can get usual feeding like beef,chicken etc and buy 1 different meats like goat orr something every month or so to get bit more variety and rotating will be good.

My dog loves pork and she eat pork bone like eating chicken. I once gave her spare rib but she was just crunching down like chicken.

I guess that by definition saying" rawfeeding need variety" means that you cannot feed chicken only for years,I guess then,As long as I have more meat kinds,I be fine.

Thanks again,

yassy


---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: Orange Roughly from NZ
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:20 am ((PDT))

>There is also a big difference between farm raised and wild

Hi,Catherine. Yes,before switching diet,I was bit care-less about where the fish coming from or how the fish is raised,but it is funny that after switching dog's diet,I pay more attention about origin of fish catching place and I see if farm raised or wild.If I see wild caught fish I buy them over farm raised fish.I think this makes us human eat more smart as well.

Overall,not only my dog but us getting benefit from switching as well.

It is also interesting to go grocery shopping because i I find different kinds of fish almost all the time adding to usual fish like salmon,Tuna etc display on ice. Sometimes,I am lucky enough to get whole fish but sometimes,just fillet available.I do not mind too much about whole or fillet but interesting to get different kinds of fish each week.

And sometimes,you find fish you have never tasted but you eat it and find yourself liking it.I usually keep tiny bit for me to cook and taste from palette's fish lot.She torelate very very well for perch and,I cooked for myself to see what the taste is like. I found it tasty.
Since both like perch now,when I see perch,I get more than half pound but we do not see it very often so stock up when I see it.

Last Saturday,I bought Orange roughly(I believe) from ‚m‚y. Never tasted myself before and have not fed before so,I just gpt half pound. I think I leave just 1 oz or so to cook for me to taste and see how it is.

Anyone has fed Orange Roughly before?

If palette knew I am nibbling off some of her meal,she may not happy about it so, don't tell her about it:-P

yassy


---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
Posted by: "Tracy" tracy.ramey@sbcglobal.net veganmomma1
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:44 am ((PDT))

> If you've got something big and frozen that needs feeding, give put
> it out and let the dog work on it to its satisfaction.
> Chris O


I give my lab whole chickens frozen solid from time to time. She eats
the entire thing in less than an hour. It's really more like half an
hour. Gee...I hope that's normal! Is she freak to eat that much that
fast? Should I fast her the next day perhaps? The chickens I buy are
about 3 to 4 lbs and I'm sure she could eat two a day if I let her!

Tracy

Messages in this topic (10)
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9b. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:58 am ((PDT))

> I give my lab whole chickens frozen solid from time to time. She eats
> the entire thing in less than an hour. It's really more like half an
> hour. Gee...I hope that's normal! Is she freak to eat that much that
> fast?
*****
Seeing as my Lab eats a whole thawed chicken in about three minutes, I
don't consider half an hour especially frightful. If it works for her
and for you, there's no problem.


Should I fast her the next day perhaps?
*****
Why? Nothing you've described warrants a fast. What would that hope
to accomplish? Except for medical reasons, a skipped day typically
follows a big meal. If your girl is eating a whole chicken in short
order and could eat two, she's clearly not getting a "big meal".
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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9c. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
Posted by: "Denise" DeniseAndZac@gmail.com puresurrender
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:27 am ((PDT))

my dogger prefers his food frozen too. Why is THAT? The distant DNA
relative wolves certainly didn't eat frozen food.

silly dogs.

Denise


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Messages in this topic (10)
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9d. Re: A Eureka Moment....(frozen food)
Posted by: "chaparraltrail" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:04 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Denise <DeniseAndZac@...> wrote:
>
> my dogger prefers his food frozen too. Why is THAT? The distant
DNA
> relative wolves certainly didn't eat frozen food.
>
> silly dogs.

...and neither did ours! (Cave man with ice cream cone? Or Big Mac?)

silly humans!

;-)

Lori

Messages in this topic (10)
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9e. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
Posted by: "cresco299" gentry.jeffrey@yahoo.com cresco299
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:06 pm ((PDT))

>>>...Of course, I wouldn't have carried around a hacksaw either...


Can you imagine? That would be hilarious! If only I could describe
the vision of this in my head- I'm sure you would get a kick out of it
too.

Jeff

Messages in this topic (10)
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10a. Need some help here.
Posted by: "Margaret" margaret.abate@ntlworld.com filardifilardi
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:06 pm ((PDT))

About 3 weeks ago, Kiera just stopped eating her bones, haven't a clue
why, her mouth is fine, it's been checked, so i can't understand it.
I would be very grateful if anyone has any ideas on this.
Margaret.

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: Need some help here.
Posted by: "Margaret Martell" zahrammm1@yahoo.com zahrammm1
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:17 pm ((PDT))

Margaret <margaret.abate@ntlworld.com> wrote: About 3 weeks ago, Kiera just stopped eating her bones, haven't a clue
why, her mouth is fine, it's been checked, so i can't understand it.
I would be very grateful if anyone has any ideas on this.
Margaret.

*****
Margaret, one question, how old is Kiera?

Margaret & Zahra



---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Re: Rabbit?
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:11 pm ((PDT))

I've been reading all these posts of people with dogs who aren't that
keen on rabbit and it got me thinking. I will be adopting a new
Greyhound in about a month and I have found a local man who is willing
to breed rabbits for me and they're raised running around on a farm
eating naturally. I figured this was the perfect thing. Now I'm just
hoping my new boy likes them! LOL Maybe if I offer rabbit as his
first meat type he'll adjust better, any thoughts?

Shannon H.

Messages in this topic (24)
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11b. Re: Rabbit?
Posted by: "scarebetty" scarebetty@yahoo.com scarebetty
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:10 pm ((PDT))


I've never fed rabbit to my dog, but it's interesting to read these
posts. My son shot a jack rabbit one night and the next day, my dog
went out and brought it home.(nice dog) One day I had whole rabbit,
next day I had a 2 legs in separate pieces, then the next day I had
just ears with a little facial hair -looked kinda like a mask! I
guess that the dogs finally finished it off, ears and all!

Betty

Messages in this topic (24)
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12a. next best thing
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:13 pm ((PDT))

Hello everyone, I am new and I have a quesion that may be off topic, however it involves raw and u all seem very helpful so I thought I would try asking. I have a friend that wants to switch his dog to raw. The problem is he travels often ;about 2-3 weeks a month with the dog. So far we haven't come up with any way of taking along enough raw food for that long of a period. My question is would it be benefical to feed the dog kibble ( I was thinging EVO because it is supposed to mix well and be the next best thing) while he is traveling and raw while he is home? This dog has allergies and I feed raw so I feel that it would benefit him. My concerns are would he adapt to the way they are digested differenly. He would be on raw for a few days to 2 weeks and back on EVO when he travels. I have been told in the past that kibble and raw don't mix, however; as I realy want to help I though I would ask ur opinions. Hopefully someone understands this situation. Thanks for any help
or suggestions Felicia

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (4)
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12b. Re: next best thing
Posted by: "chaparraltrail" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:41 pm ((PDT))

The only appropriate diet recognized on this list is the prey model of
raw, which is in fact the healthiest way to feed a carnivore.

Because not all of us follow a "prey friendly" schedule, some make
compromises, as needed. It appears not to be appropriate (or at least
not popular) to discuss such compromises on this list. There have
been a lot of excellent suggestions recently about how to feed raw
while traveling, backpacking, etc. They might work well for you. I
feed 100% raw except for a day or two per month...not "perfect," but
most of us aren't feeding fur & feathers to our dogs either (which is
a true prey model), so most of us compromise a bit, one way or
another.

Good luck!

Lori

Messages in this topic (4)
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12c. Re: next best thing
Posted by: "Erica Mills" millser25@yahoo.com millser25
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:10 pm ((PDT))

Felica,
There really is no good reason to feed kibble. When we travel with our raw fed dog, I put individual meals into zip top bags and freeze them solid. Then, I put them in a cooler with some block ice (it lasts WAY longer than cubes). Even if the meat has thawed and isn't up to human consumption standards by the end of the trip, the dog's digestive system can handle it, and it won't be a problem at all. If I am traveling someplace where it isn't feasible or convenient to bring a cooler, we just stop at the grocery stores while traveling. I buy enough to last for a day or two at a time and don't worry about refrigerating it. If neither of these options are acceptable to you, I would suggest purchasing one of the freeze dried raw products. They certainly aren't as good a real food, but way better than kibble.
When I first started on raw, we made that same mistake of traveling with kibble. After a two week period of feeding Innova Evo, I noticed a marked increase in tarter on his teeth, a much less luxurious and dull coat, lethargy, weight gain, and diarrhea. I won't make that mistake twice.
Good Luck,
Erica


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Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

12d. traveling (was Re: next best thing
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:17 pm ((PDT))

Hi Felicia,

What are the specifics of his travel situations? By car? In hotels?
Etc.? There have been some great posts on the subject--try searching
the archives on traveling. Let us know more details and we can help.
I'm sure there's a way to work it out!

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
I have a friend that wants to switch his dog to raw. The problem is he
travels often ;about 2-3 weeks a month with the dog. So far we haven't
come up with any way of taking along enough raw food for that long of a
period.

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. S/O disapproves
Posted by: "brake4breyers832" pebbles_diehl@hotmail.com brake4breyers832
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:43 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone,
I have been doing research on switching my dogs to raw for about three
weeks and finally brought it up to my significant other last week. He
thought I was going crazy and said that this was the most out of whack
thing I have said/come up with! Well, long story short, we have two
chi's and a dachshund. One of the chi's is small, like only 2 1/2-3
lb.s small (she is 4 years old too!). I think she would be ok, and I
know her mom would be, but the S/O said he doesn't want to deal with
the doxie getting runny stools and the "inconvenience" of feeding
raw. I know I can convince him and we can change the doxie
eventually, but that is not my question.
I have read on sites recommended here that all dogs will possibly
carry and shed salmonella in their feces. If I am only feeding two of
the three dogs (for now) on raw, will it likely affect the doxie if he
is healthy? I haven't seen him eating the other's poo, but just
thought I would ask.
Thanks so much!

Susan, Chloe, Pip and Frankie

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

13b. Re: S/O disapproves
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:05 pm ((PDT))

Susan,

Salmonella is commonly found in stool, regardless of what is being fed.
Switching to raw shouldn't make any difference.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "brake4breyers832" <pebbles_diehl@hotmail.com>
I have read on sites recommended here that all dogs will possibly
carry and shed salmonella in their feces. If I am only feeding two of
the three dogs (for now) on raw, will it likely affect the doxie if he
is healthy? I haven't seen him eating the other's poo, but just
thought I would ask.

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11860

There are 18 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. fear of bones (was Re: constipation ?
From: Laurie Swanson

2a. offal variety - how necessary?
From: zest_741
2b. Re: offal variety - how necessary?
From: Laurie Swanson

3a. Re: constipation ?
From: Morledzep@aol.com
3b. Re: constipation ?
From: Giselle
3c. Re: constipation ?
From: Laurie Swanson

4a. Re: Duck
From: ginny wilken

5a. Re: Pork Loin
From: Morledzep@aol.com
5b. Re: Pork Loin
From: Morledzep@aol.com

6. Re: yassy, meat variety
From: Morledzep@aol.com

7. Re: yassy, fish
From: Morledzep@aol.com

8. reddness from meat???
From: Ivette Casiano

9. Starting raw with a surgery near
From: pigasus718

10a. Re: Upset stomach
From: doreenchui
10b. Re: Upset stomach
From: doreenchui

11. salmon caused illness?
From: graceacrestraci

12a. another newbie question
From: quiltingtuppy

13a. Re: Buffalo Heart
From: Carol


Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. fear of bones (was Re: constipation ?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:14 pm ((PDT))

Hi there,

Most of us had to get over our fear of feeding bones. And you still
want to keep an eye on the dog, and feed appropriate bones for his size
and eating style. But if you choose wisely and give it a try, you will
learn what works best and get more and more comfortable. Is your dog a
pretty good bone-chewer, or does he try to gulp large items? What
bones have you fed and how did it go? Are you comfortable feeding any
certain types yet?

You can do whole fish, which is a super-comfy way to get bones into a
dog. My dog is smaller than yours (20 lb. Boston), but he does have
gulping tendencies (much better after several months of feeding prey
model). He does great w/lamb necks (cut into about 2-3" wide by 6"
long chunks), big pork necks, goat/lamb legs, turkey thighs, pork or
lamb ribs. There are lots of other options, too, of course. Some of
the items I mentioned are fairly boney, so I usually add some meat or
organs to many of those meals. Chicken is easy, too--just go with
bigger parts he'll have to work at a little--like quarters, halves, or
whole, as opposed to something that might be gulped whole like a
drumstick or wing.

Laurie


--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, outcats4@... wrote:
> Im still afraid of some bones - He's a fairly large dog, a malinois
> /greyhound mix, and he seems to have no problem eating bones, its
just me getting
> over my fear of it. I get worried every time i feed chicken legs or
lamb bones,
> so i havent been feeding the meat with the bones. i


Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. offal variety - how necessary?
Posted by: "zest_741" zest_741@yahoo.com.au zest_741
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:22 pm ((PDT))

Hi, I posted this on a sighthound list but no-one replied, so I'm
hoping to have more luck here :)
For 4 months or so I've been totally raw feeding after doing a hybrid
model for a while before that.
I have found it easy to get variety in RMB's and meaty cuts, but not
offal.
All I can find in offal is liver (pork, chicken, lamb, beef & goat)
and kidneys (pork and lamb). No procesors or abattoirs that I can find
around here.
Are liver and kidneys enough if I rotate between the species?
I feed each about once a week, is that often enough?
Lamb brains are also available but very expensive, are they worthwhile
enough in nutritional terms to add in once a month or so?
I feed tongue and heart too but class them as meat rather than
offal.My dogs are both Borzoi, one adult and one 8 month old.
Thanks in advance, I really need some help!
Kerry


Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: offal variety - how necessary?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:19 am ((PDT))

Sounds like you are doing pretty good to me! That's quite a bit of
variety in organs. I don't know how we would really know how much of
each thing is necessary for optimal health. I just think about
nature and a whole prey animal, and keep trying to improve in quality
and body part variety, but I also think it's a fun hobby. :-)

If you want to keep looking...Have you checked for pork spleen (my
dog LOVES that!) or heads at Asian markets? Have you looked for
sweetbreads (I've only seen them at one grocery store and they were
pretty pricey.)? You could order tripe w/trachea/gullet/etc.
online. Is there a buying group/co-op near you? You might find odd
items that way, too. I just got a couple lamb heads from mine
(WA/OR). You could keep an eye out for turkeys/organs around
holidays. If you do whole fish, you can get some eyeballs, guts and
brains that way, too.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "zest_741" <zest_741@...> wrote:
> All I can find in offal is liver (pork, chicken, lamb, beef & goat)
> and kidneys (pork and lamb). No procesors or abattoirs that I can
find
> around here.
> Are liver and kidneys enough if I rotate between the species?
> I feed each about once a week, is that often enough?
> Lamb brains are also available but very expensive, are they
worthwhile
> enough in nutritional terms to add in once a month or so?
> I feed tongue and heart too but class them as meat rather than
> offal.

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: constipation ?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:37 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 7/29/2007 3:18:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
outcats4@aol.com writes:

My dog will often go 2 days maybe 3 without pooping and I get really
stressed when this happens. I add pulverized organic vegetables to his meat
and
pumpkin, but wonder if its that he is getting too much meat ? is this
normal
and can i relax, or is something off ?



Barb,

you can't hardly feed too much meat unless you're just completely overfeeding
the dog. there is no need for veggies, or pumpkin.. feed MOSTLY meat, a
little bone and a little organ meat.. approximate percentages would be 80% meat,
10% edible bone, and 10% organ meat.

no need for veggies, not as a normal part of the diet.. but they will make
things move when you're feeding too much bone.. still it shouldn't be a regular
part of the diet. no harm in feeding them as treats now and then though, if
you feel the need.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: constipation ?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:26 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Barb!
You've come quite a long way already!

You just need to ditch the veggie stuff, and let your fellow eat some
whole meat with bones.

Feed soft bones to begin with, chicken, rabbit & fish is great to help
you get over the 'scary bones' feeling. The more you feed, the more
confident you will feel. And the better your dog does on the raw diet,
the better he will look!

Pork, turkey, lamb, venison and goat bones are mostly edible, too. The
long leg bones and some rib bones may not be completely edible, but
you can always take them up after your dog strips them of what he can
eat. Every bone you feed doesn't have to be completely edible, only
10% of the total diet needs to be bone. And some meals can be meatless.
So, be worried, and watch him while he eats, but feed those bones!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey


> I was feeding the Volhard diet, but slowly stopped adding the
grains. He
> wasn't doing too well on that diet, and I was afraid of bone meal,
so I didn't
> add that.
>
> I'm still afraid of some bones - He's a fairly large dog, a Malinois
> /greyhound mix, and he seems to have no problem eating bones, its
just me getting
> over my fear of it. I get worried every time I feed chicken legs
or lamb bones,
> so I haven't been feeding the meat with the bones. i


Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: constipation ?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:19 am ((PDT))

My dog does this sometimes, too. I wouldn't worry unless you're
feeding a lot of bone and his poops are dry and crumbly and/or it
seems like he's straining to go. I really doubt you're feeding too
much meat, since that should be the bulk of the diet. How often are
you feeding? Do you mean you add veggies and pumpkin all the time,
or just when you want to get him to poop? I've heard people use
pumpkin to try to remedy loose stool, so if you're using that all the
time, it might be contributing to constipation.

Laurie

>
> In a message dated 7/29/2007 3:18:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> outcats4@... writes:
>
> My dog will often go 2 days maybe 3 without pooping and I get
really
> stressed when this happens. I add pulverized organic vegetables to
his meat
> and
> pumpkin, but wonder if its that he is getting too much meat ? is
this
> normal
> and can i relax, or is something off ?


Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Duck
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:45 pm ((PDT))


On Jul 29, 2007, at 7:48 PM, Katie wrote:

> i'm reposting in the hope that someone will ahve some words of
> wisdom to share?

Okay.... It is highly unlikely that these are true food allergies,
and for that reason they should do very well on the same proteins raw
and unprocessed. What they may have is chronic disease from previous
insults - which is to say their immune systems are overly reactive.
If, and maybe even not if, you can find foods that do not make them
itch, you can put off dealing with the disease within for a while.
But it will continue to cause problems for them. You might wish to do
some reading on homeopathy and how it works to help the body readjust
itself after the insults of poor food and drugs. In the meantime,
remember that their "allergies" are not to foods, really, but the
foods are just the triggers. That's why they keep changing, because
it doesn't really matter to the body, which will show symptoms
paradoxically no matter what gyrations you go through with the diet.

If it's from the food, they will stop itching. If they don't stop
itching, it's a sign to you to go beyond diet. Whatever you do, do
not use steroids or other drugs like antihistamines. These will
really set them back.

ginny and Tomo, our two cents'

All stunts performed without a net!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Pork Loin
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:25 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 7/29/2007 3:35:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
loulou_bean@yahoo.com writes:

Is the loin okay? It seems big
enough that he won't swallow it whole, but there
really is no bone stopping him from doing it. Any
advice would be great. Thanks,



***I'm sure your peke will be in "hog heaven" getting a whole pork loin all
for himself. It'll probably take him most of the next year to eat it.. but i
have no doubt that he won't complain one bit.

I personally, for such a small dog, would go with spare ribs in 3 - 4 rib
slabs.. that's a meal and a workout and some bone if the dog so chooses all in a
neat little package.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: Pork Loin
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:44 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 7/29/2007 7:42:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
linoleum5017@yahoo.com writes:

My dog loves the bone-in pork loin - our butcher cuts it in whatever
size hunks I ask, and it's fairly cheap - $1.70/lb. He's got big
teeth, it seems, and can crunch with the big guys. I've not had a
problem with those bones, (yet, anyway.) Does this list 'not'
recommend them? (I can take them away from him, in that case.)



Lynn,

bone-in pork of any size or shape is just hunky dory... except stuff like
pork chops where the bone is cut long ways with a saw..

there is no part of the pig that isn't edible, either for humans or dogs, my
grandma used to say they eat everything but the "oink".

for very young dogs, puppies, does with chewing issues, it's loads of fun to
go to the local asian market and buy pork snouts and/or faces. Keeps them
busy for hours and you laughing the entire time.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6. Re: yassy, meat variety
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:35 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 7/29/2007 10:26:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,
sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com writes:

Now,how many protin sourcee are you all feeding? I was curious if for
example,commercially available beef,lamb,chicken,Turkey,Pork,fish are good enough
just that or not.
I know that rawfeeding needs variety of protin source but if those are good
enough just that?



Yassy,

If that is what is available then thats going to be good enough. But always
keep an eye out for more and different kinds of meat. I don't know where you
are, but here in California (USA), Pork is inexpensive, easy to find and very
safe for people and dogs.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7. Re: yassy, fish
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:54 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 7/29/2007 10:22:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com writes:

It is more interesting if you think about fish. Some fish is white meat like
flounder and some is quite red like Tuna and some is pinky like snapper,and
some are orange like Salmon.
I wonder if that all relating to how much they swim ?? Just curious thoughts.



Yassy,

yes.. that is exactly the reason that different fish have different color
meat. There is also a big difference between farm raised and wild, the farm
raised fish have much lighter colored meat than the wild fish because the wild
fish actually have to work and swim to stay alive. Farm raised fish (also
applies to meat animals) don't have to work or swim to find food, it comes to them,
and they don't have to run away from predators.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8. reddness from meat???
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:18 am ((PDT))

I'm a newbie, have been feeding my 7 yr. yellow lab raw only a few months. He's doing well but I'd like to know if it's possible for his fur around his elbows and paws to get orange due to feeding red meats?
Ivette


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9. Starting raw with a surgery near
Posted by: "pigasus718" pigasus718@yahoo.com pigasus718
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:18 am ((PDT))

Hi,
I'm new here and have been trying to read up on all the posts.
My question is, I was planning on starting my two on raw for the
morning meal tomorrow. I found out saturday that my shih tzu,Lilo, has
3 kidney stones and has to have surgery tuesday and can't be fed after
6pm tomorrow.
Should I go ahead and start raw, or wait till a couple of days after
her surgery when her system has had time to recover a little?
Any experience/thoughts/observations would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Robyn

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Upset stomach
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:20 am ((PDT))

>
> Hi Sandy
> My whippet starting taking raw in the morning since 2 months ago.
> Just meat, chicken, beef, mutton/lamb. Fish, once in a while, as
> treats, never as the main meal.
I tried giving with bones(chicken)> but he does not like it.
I am trying to get him eating raw boneless
> meat first, get his stomach right and slowly introduce other things.
> I started full raw recently, meaning no Abady. With chicken(he does
> not like it) and beef, his stools are alright but not with
> mutton/lamb, it tends to be loose. Beef fed for more than 6-7 days
wii result in an stomach upset.
For each new protein, I start
> with 50gms.
> Doreen


Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. Re: Upset stomach
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:24 am ((PDT))


>
> I live in Singapore. We do not have turkey here except for the
> Christmas season. No rabbit meat too. We only have pig and
> chicken organs here. I do feed fish once in a while, seabass or
> grouper. Will try cod fish soon.Venision is very hard to come by
and
> I happen to chance upon it just few days ago in a wholesale factory
> outlet. I paid frozen venison for USD 29 per kg. Frozen beef is USD
> 10 , frozen goat(whole leg) is USD15. Chilled beef is USD 22. All
> these are from wholesaler and if you buy it from supermarket, it's
> probable 2 1/2 times more.
> I'm not worried about the kibble as he's totally not interested.
> Yes, i packed all the meat in meal sized portions. I used to feed
> him 2 days this and 2 days that but I read somewhere that it's
> better to feed one kind for a week and then switch.
> He prefers boneless meat. i tried many a times to give him chiken
> necks and backs but he simply refuse it after a couple of bites.
> Then at next meal time, he will go into hiding.
> I have just started giving digestive enzymes yesterday.Perhaps, I
should try giving it before his meal.
> He had chicken after his fasting day and this morning, I tried
> giving him chicken again this morning and he had refused.
> His eating habits differ now and then. .
> For your info, my whippet came to me when he was 15 months old.
he's
> now 2 yrs old. My schnauzer have been with me since he was 3 mths
old.
Doreen
>


Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11. salmon caused illness?
Posted by: "graceacrestraci" RTGandA@integrity.com graceacrestraci
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:24 am ((PDT))

My 14 month old dog, eating raw for 2 months, is off his feed and
moping. I fed him raw salmon about 10 days ago of which he threw it all
up and then some. I was told afterward salmon has a parasite. Anyone
have any knowledge/experience with this?
Traci

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. another newbie question
Posted by: "quiltingtuppy" mamacass@iprimus.com.au quiltingtuppy
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:54 am ((PDT))

Hi Everyone,

Charlie (10 week mini/medium labradoodle pup) loved his first ever chicken back tonight,
finally we've started raw. He was pretty impressed!

My (latest!) question - is there such a thing as breed appropriate raw food, or is it just a
matter of the difference of jaw strength of a chihauha vs a malamute? Like would a small dog
in the wild only catch and feed on a small animal?

Hope this makes sense, my (human) kids are doing my head in today!

Regards
Stephanie

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. Re: Buffalo Heart
Posted by: "Carol" onejoyfulmoose@yahoo.com onejoyfulmoose
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:41 am ((PDT))

-
At 99 cents/lb it isn't costly for me to obtain. And, they're close
to where my Aunt lives so even if they didn't ship I can stock up
when I go in that direction.

Carol


>
> Carol,
>
> As much as i suggest meat variety, i have to admit that i just
don't see
> enough difference between beef heart and buffalo heart to justify
the difference
> in price. And if you have a dog that can tell the difference and
doesn't like
> buffalo heart, beef heart is cheap and good... no need to sweat the
small
> stuff.
>
> Catherine R.
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-
new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

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<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

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