Feed Pets Raw Food: Sep 24, 2007

Monday, September 24, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12069

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
From: Loraine Jesse
1b. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
From: Elizabeth
1c. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
From: Sandee Lee

2a. Re: Help - Ready to quit
From: Laurie Swanson

3a. Re: Feeding Heads
From: Laurie Swanson
3b. Re: Feeding Heads
From: T Smith

4a. Aust. shep. new in nashville
From: sthumming
4b. Re: Aust. shep. new in nashville
From: Giselle

5a. Re: Cat with sensitive stomach
From: Shannon Parker

6.1. Re: new member
From: Denise Strother

7a. Re: Feeding once a day
From: Denise Strother
7b. Re: Feeding once a day
From: T Smith

8a. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Kevin Brown
8b. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: T Smith
8c. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: rochellemontage
8d. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: rochellemontage
8e. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: tottime47
8f. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: marblekallie
8g. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: costrowski75

9. Re: quitting raw
From: Michael Moore

10a. Re: Hello-I'm New Intro
From: girlndocs

11a. Re: raw feeding my Papillion
From: costrowski75

12a. Re: Urinary Tract Infections
From: costrowski75

13a. Re: Allergy question
From: costrowski75

14. Raw & Stools (poop)
From: T Smith

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:33 pm ((PDT))

I am a bit lost here.
To my understanding puppies need the extra calcuim from the bones for growth, that is why they are supposed to have at least 65 % raw meaty bones. I thought I was pushing it by using chicken legs and more meaty pieces which would be about 50 % meat and about 50% bone. Also when I feed beef or, heart on its own I have given them 1 tsp of egg shell powder too, because beef is low on calcuim. My biggest worry with a large breed, besides growth development would be the pasterns and feet. So I am having a hard time understanding what has changed with the percentages. I do understand that too much calcuim can be detramental to a large breed, but so could too little. Could you give me an example of 2 to 3 meals that you would feed a large puppy that would be say from 5 wks to 20 wks.
Please note I am very open to new information, growing and learning.
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.comFrom: rlee@plix.comDate: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:38:30 -0700Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy

Absolutely!Sandee & the Dane GangFrom: "Loraine Jesse" <rothburg@hotmail.com>> Sandy,> With feeding 80% meat and only 10 % bone on a large breed, will there beenough natural calcuim?

_________________________________________________________________
Explore the seven wonders of the world
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:45 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Loraine Jesse <rothburg@...> wrote:
>
> So I am having a hard time understanding what has changed with the
percentages.

Think of a wolf... Big "dog," right? They eat the same whole-prey diet
from weening to death. They have healthy bones, and grow at an
appropriate rate. A prey animal is comprised of roughly 80% flesh,
hide, skin, fur, and 10-15% bone, and 5-10% organs. I am under the
guise that you are thinking about the BARF diet which suggests too
much bone. That is way too much bone, and it's based off the
assumption that wild animals are half bone! If you told any biologist
that, they would look at you like you grew a second head! lol! Also,
Billinghurst seems to think dogs are omnivores, which is not true.

-Liz

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:32 pm ((PDT))

Nothing has changed. The normal prey animal of a carnivore is only around
13% total bone and not all of that is consumable. The majority of their
prey is meat. Feed lots of meat, a little bone and organs.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Loraine Jesse" <rothburg@hotmail.com>
> I am a bit lost here.
> To my understanding puppies need the extra calcuim from the bones for
growth, that is why they are supposed to have at least 65 % raw meaty bones.
I thought I was pushing it by using chicken legs and more meaty pieces which
would be about 50 % meat and about 50% bone. Also when I feed beef or, heart
on its own I have given them 1 tsp of egg shell powder too, because beef is
low on calcuim. My biggest worry with a large breed, besides growth
development would be the pasterns and feet. So I am having a hard time
understanding what has changed with the percentages.

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Help - Ready to quit
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:33 pm ((PDT))

Hi Dolores,

Just to clarify-by "enhanced," I don't mean obviously seasoned. It
can be injected w/broth or other solutions and you can't tell except
it should be listed in tiny print on the label. This can cause loose
poops in some dogs. But, as someone else said, pork is a lot fattier
than chicken, so that could be it, too. I don't like my dog to have
chronic loose stool, either, but I don't really know that it makes
him too uncomfortable. It doesn't always accompany an ill feeling in
us people. And the dogs often don't act under the weather just
because they have some loose stool. But, I agree in trying to
minimize it.

Good luck,

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, havanese1@... wrote:

> The pork was not enhanced just plain old country style ribs.

> Cleaning poop is not an issue, the issue is that I don't want my
dogs to be sick or uncomfortable. No one likes to have liquid poops,
not even dogs.

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:33 pm ((PDT))

Not sure how big a head you're talking about or if this is practical,
but can you put it back in the frig or freezer til the next day/feeding?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Baker" <scottsbaker@...>
wrote:
>
> To those that feed whole heads, what do you do with the heads between
> feedings? do you just leave them in the yard?
>

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:22 pm ((PDT))

I am beginning to think raw might not be for me.
I cannot feed heads like this. It's just NOT something I can do.
Maybe k*** is best for our dogs. I can feed chicken & meats & even fish
but not this other stuff like heads... Seeing my dog chomping down on a
cow's head ..... I can't do that. Feeding my dog a wild squirrel that runs
along my fence chattering away.... no, that's definitely out of the picture.

Maybe I was thinking of a different kind of raw food. Where do the dogs get
their vitamins from, is there supplementing, too?
I'm just confused now, totally and utterly confused on how this is supposed
to work. I thought it was:
80% meat, 10% bone & 10% organs & chicken was ok. pork ribs are ok & fish
Then, I could give treats for training (like the rollover meat natural stuff
i cut into small tid bit treats).
My family was even willing to try this out as soon as we figured out where
to feed them this type of meal.
But now, after reading what is being fed, it might not be for us.
Trina
(really befuzzled)

On 9/24/07, Laurie Swanson <laurie@mckinneyphoto.com> wrote:
>
> Not sure how big a head you're talking about or if this is practical,
> but can you put it back in the frig or freezer til the next day/feeding?
>
> Laurie
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com>, "Scott
> Baker" <scottsbaker@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > To those that feed whole heads, what do you do with the heads between
> > feedings? do you just leave them in the yard?
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Aust. shep. new in nashville
Posted by: "sthumming" humming@comcast.net sthumming
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:08 pm ((PDT))

Hi,
Just to introduce myself. We have a 6-week-old Australian shepherd girl, and we've always
fed our previous dogs kibble, but I'm trying to get the hang of raw feeding. Lack of freezer
space is a major obstacle; I've got a tiny deepfreeze.

Tonight was the first meal we've fed her just meat. I gave her a chicken back and watched her
learn how to eat -- we both had a good time. She only finished probably 20% of it. Do I rinse
it off and save it for tomorrow?

Thanks,
Stephanie in Nashville Tennessee

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Aust. shep. new in nashville
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:41 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Stephanie!
Welcome to the raw side!

Chicken backs by themselves are really too bony with not enough meat
on them. I'd ditch it, and get something meatier.

For a baby pup, and she's pretty young yet to be already gone from her
family group, you want to be sure that her diet has plenty of meat,
and just a little easily edible bone. Why not get a few Game Hens, and
cut them into quarters? These are chickens, slaughtered at a younger
age than 'regular' chickens, so they are smaller with bones that are
softer. She probably will do well with a quarter at each of three
meals a day at first.

As she grows, and develops her jaw and body strength, you can give
larger parts and more difficult bones.

For a pup under 4 mo, you might want to offer about 10% of her
ESTIMATED IDEAL ADULT body weight. After 4 mo, you'll probably want to
use the approximately 2-3% EIABW estimate. And three meals a day are
good for pups until about 6 mo, then you can switch to 2 meals a day.

You might want to read this archived post with my recommendations for
starting to feed raw. And maybe print it out and highlight the
relevant points;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374

post # 141374
The Lis List, which is in this post also, tells of creative ways to
source cheap or free proteins and even freezers! ^_^
TC and let us know how you and pup progress!
TC
Giselle with Bea in New Jersey

> Just to introduce myself. We have a 6-week-old Australian Shepherd
girl, and we've always
> fed our previous dogs kibble, but I'm trying to get the hang of raw
feeding. Lack of freezer
> space is a major obstacle; I've got a tiny deep freeze.
>
> Tonight was the first meal we've fed her just meat. I gave her a
chicken back and watched her
> learn how to eat -- we both had a good time. She only finished
probably 20% of it. Do I rinse
> it off and save it for tomorrow?
>
> Thanks,
> Stephanie in Nashville Tennessee

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Cat with sensitive stomach
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:08 pm ((PDT))

Hi Liz,

It sounds like you are describing my cat to a "T". My cat is 13 years old and pre-raw, vomited ALL the time. I had to keep switching her from one hypoallergenic diet to another, as she would develop sensitivities to each one. She NEVER had a solid poop, and she just didn't look great. So 2 things happened. 1. I tested her for hyperthyroidism...POSITIVE! 2. Switched her to raw. She's been on raw for 1 year and is doing fantastic. Still vomits the odd time, but it's usually just a hairball. She refuses to eat off the bone so I grind up her food (usually chicken or turkey), add some organ meat which she loves and supplement with herring fish oil for the omega 3 fatty acids. I also give her sardines or mackerel once a week which she goes crazy for. Definitely have your friend get her thyroid checked, and switched to raw.

All the best,

Shannon

Elizabeth <rainsou1@yahoo.com> wrote:
My roommate would like to put her cat on raw, but the cat has a few
issues my friend is concerned would not go over well with raw. I am
posting on her behalf because she does not belong to the group or have
a Yahoo account. Anyways, the cat is 13 yrs old, and has a sensitive
stomach, and vomits nearly everyday for some reason or another.

Recent Activity

108
New Members

Visit Your Group
Drive Traffic
Sponsored Search
can help increase
your site traffic.

Fitness Challenge
on Yahoo! Groups
Get in shape w/the
Special K Challenge.

Moderator Central
An online resource
for moderators
of Yahoo! Groups.

---------------------------------
All new Yahoo! Mail
---------------------------------
Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6.1. Re: new member
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:09 pm ((PDT))

There is one thing that can be a con - at least in instances of days
and days of rain - the tremendous amount of energy that a raw fed dog
has. When it rains here in Houston for days and days, Lavender paces
around the house til I give up and put on rain gear and take her out.
Denise

> The pros are feeding a dog the food he is designed to eat....so
better health, cleaner teeth, even more stable temperament.
The cons are.....ummm, I can't think of any! Other than becoming
obsessed with finding good deals and then not having enough freezer
space! :)
> Sandee & the Dane Gang

Messages in this topic (80)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Feeding once a day
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:16 pm ((PDT))

Melissa,
Tell your Mom and Dad that there is no reason to feed a grown dog more
than once a day. Also you can feed bigger, more complicated meals by
feeding once, instead of splitting the days food into two meals. Denise

> I have been feeding my golden raw for about 3 months now and he is
doing great!I feed him once a day usually in the evening , which he
doesn't seem to have a problem with. I still live at home which makes
it hard for me to do things my parents my not agree with, they think i
should start feeding him twice a day. Which I don't believe there is a
good reason to. I would really like any opinions on this, It will
really help me out alot. I really enjoy reading what everyone has to
say about different post and try to improve on my knowledge on raw.
Thanks,
Melissa

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Feeding once a day
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:18 pm ((PDT))

I do not know about other people but with Danes we feed at least twice a day
to avoid bloat. Also torsion with large meals & exercise before or after
feeding. Smaller meals are always much better for the dog.
Now, as far as raw goes, maybe that's different? Any other Dane people feed
raw here?
Trina

On 9/24/07, Denise Strother <denisestrother@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Melissa,
> Tell your Mom and Dad that there is no reason to feed a grown dog more
> than once a day. Also you can feed bigger, more complicated meals by
> feeding once, instead of splitting the days food into two meals. Denise
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Kevin Brown" jerseykev@aol.com noblarneyzone
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:17 pm ((PDT))

Are they micro chipped?

Kevin
guardiansbythesea.com

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Jen Dudley <jend404@...> wrote:
>
> Vicki,
>
> Do you have a positive diagnosis for cancer in the new
> puppy? I don't know much about dog metabolism and
> feeding - I am still learning, but I do know quite a
> bit about tracking disease vs. population density (in
> humans). I am assuming your dogs are unrelated?? Two
> young animals with cancer in the same household raises
> pathogen red flags all over the place. Perhaps those
> that know more about dogs will say I am over-reacting
> but I don't know.
>
> If you have had two unrelated puppies contract cancer
> so young and close together you MUST look in to your
> environment. Ask your neighbors if they have dogs with
> cancer. Find out how many, etc, etc. Your own health
> may depend on it. What kind of cancer? Is it the same
> as the first puppy. Look up what is known to cause
> that kind of cancer and it may give you a clue where
> to start looking. Is it possible they are chewing on
> something they shouldn't like paint cans?
>
> Start with home environment (chewables), water, soil,
> air pollutants, etc. If you truly suspect the food
> then I would look in to where you buy the meat for the
> dogs. Where do the feed animals come from? Where do
> they graze. Where is the packing and butchering done?
>
> that is what I would do.
> Jennifer Dudley
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?
fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
>

Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:05 pm ((PDT))

Hi,
I am new to this list & not feeding raw * yet * but i want to comment on
your cancer dog.
I haven't heard yet if you have had an oncologist confirm the diagnosis.
I say this because I have been paying over $1,000.00 a month in medicines
for my "cancer" dog for over 2 years! A new vet took some x rays recently &
we cannot find this so-called cancer diagnosis.
Until you have a confirmed diagnosis, there's no way to know it is cancer.
I am sorry if this is off topic. I just don't want to see another person go
through a misdiagnosis; especially by a vet that either : wants extra money
or is against raw feeding.....I

Trina
--
Chip (deaf Dalmatian)
Casper (deaf Great Dane)
Whisper (deaf Great Dane)
Louie (hearing Great Dane)
Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso)
Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso)
Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________

8c. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "rochellemontage" rochellemontage@yahoo.com rochellemontage
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:07 pm ((PDT))

Hi again Vickie,

I've heard dogs and cats were getting cancer left and right with the
new product, swifter floor cleaners. It was on CNN several times,
and is on the web extensively.
Also, if you have carpeting, some can make animals very ill as well
as humans too.
One of the things I do is architectural products specifications and
many products are used in homes many years before problems are
considered a direct cause.
Look over your environment closely. As Jen stated, 2 dogs getting
cancer in the same home would point to something other than diet.
Hope all ends up well for your little one.
Sincerely,
Rochelle

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Jen
>
> The puppies are related but very distantly. I thougth the same
thing
> as you did about the house and stuff. Puppies just don't get it
that
> young and that violent and strange form. I have nothing in the
house
> that a puppy can chew on that is not safe, only dog toys, bones
and
> raw hide from the pet store. Dogs never run around unattended. So
all
> I can suspect is food and/or water or cheimicals I use to clean
the
> floor.
>
> About meat, where it comes from - no idea and never will be able
to
> find out. It's a big supermarket chain. I don''t eat it myself, I
buy
> my meat form an organic store, but cannot really afford to do it
for
> the dog, it's $7/lbs and up.
>
> Vickie
>
>
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Jen Dudley <jend404@> wrote:
> >
> > Vicki,
> >
> > Do you have a positive diagnosis for cancer in the new
> > puppy? I don't know much about dog metabolism and
> > feeding - I am still learning, but I do know quite a
> > bit about tracking disease vs. population density (in
> > humans). I am assuming your dogs are unrelated?? Two
> > young animals with cancer in the same household raises
> > pathogen red flags all over the place. Perhaps those
> > that know more about dogs will say I am over-reacting
> > but I don't know.
> >
> > If you have had two unrelated puppies contract cancer
> > so young and close together you MUST look in to your
> > environment. Ask your neighbors if they have dogs with
> > cancer. Find out how many, etc, etc. Your own health
> > may depend on it. What kind of cancer? Is it the same
> > as the first puppy. Look up what is known to cause
> > that kind of cancer and it may give you a clue where
> > to start looking. Is it possible they are chewing on
> > something they shouldn't like paint cans?
> >
> > Start with home environment (chewables), water, soil,
> > air pollutants, etc. If you truly suspect the food
> > then I would look in to where you buy the meat for the
> > dogs. Where do the feed animals come from? Where do
> > they graze. Where is the packing and butchering done?
> >
> > that is what I would do.
> > Jennifer Dudley
> >
> >
> >
>
_____________________________________________________________________
_
> ______________
> > Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
> > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
> > http://search.yahoo.com/search?
> fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
> >
>

Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________

8d. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "rochellemontage" rochellemontage@yahoo.com rochellemontage
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:07 pm ((PDT))

Jen,

One more thing:
Here's some interesting data....
http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/KnowledgeBase/knowledgebasedetail.aspx?
articleid=30

Best wishes,
Rochelle

Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________

8e. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:17 pm ((PDT))

Hi Vickie,

Since there have now been questions on pet toys from China maybe you
should check them out

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/09/pet_food_recalls77.html

Yes, the same breed of dogs do come down with certain types of
cancers...
Pet dogs can reveal much about human cancers in part because of the
animals' tendency to become afflicted with the same types of
malignancies that affect people. Examples abound. The most frequently
diagnosed form of lymphoma affecting dogs mimics the medium- and high-
grade B cell non-Hodgkin's lymphomas in people.

Osteosarcoma, the most common bone cancer of large- and giant-breed
dogs, closely resembles the osteosarcoma in teenagers in its skeletal
location and aggressiveness. Under a microscope, cancer cells from a
teenager with osteosarcoma are indistinguishable from a golden
retriever's bone cancer cells.

Bladder cancer, melanoma and mouth cancer are other examples plaguing
both dog and master. In a different kind of similarity, female dogs
spayed before puberty are less prone to breast cancer than are their
nonspayed counterparts, much as women who have their ovaries removed,
who begin to menstruate late or who go into menopause early have a
reduced risk for breast cancer.

Here's a site that explains it to you.....Scientific American

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=C9F7F979-E7F2-99DF-
3D97694D2A702FED&pageNumber=1&catID=2

Here's one from the National Cancer Institute

Comparative Oncology Program of the National Cancer Institute
(including information about clinical trials for dogs):

http://ccr.cancer.gov/resources/cop/

Hope these help some in explaining cancer in pets and helping you to
realize that feeding your dog raw can not cause him to have cancer,
but plenty of other things can..

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@...>
wrote:

The puppies are related but very distantly. Puppies just don't get it
that
young and that violent and strange form. I have nothing in the house
that a puppy can chew on that is not safe, only dog toys, bones and
raw hide from the pet store.

Vickie

Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________

8f. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "marblekallie" marble@pipeline.com marblekallie
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:17 pm ((PDT))

Vicky:

One more thing you need to look at is the vaccinations that these two
had and any other treatment such as heartworm. Also, did you get a
second opinion and is the same vet doing the diagnosis on the new pup
as did on the one that died?

Philippa Jordan
New York City

Puppies just don't get it that
> young and that violent and strange form.

Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________

8g. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:14 pm ((PDT))

Howard Salob <itiskismet1968@...> wrote:
> You speak the truth and facts do not lie. It is good to see some
one stand for their convictions.
*****
Howard, you're very kind and I do appreciate your comments, but I
suggest this list is jam-packed full of people who have convictions on
which they can fully rely. I'm just taller and louder and older than
many, and I've learned to elbow my way to the front of the crowd.

I think we should all be very very proud of our collective conviction
that raw is better than not raw.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9. Re: quitting raw
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:17 pm ((PDT))

>>I have nothing in the house that a puppy can chew on that is not safe, only dog toys, bones and
raw hide from the pet store. Dogs never run around unattended. So all I can suspect is food and/or water or cheimicals I use to clean the floor.<<

Vickie -- anything is possible, of course, but personally, I never give my dogs rawhide -- many are imported and are cured with arsenic. I try hard to buy only toys made in the US, too, but that is a hard one. I do suspect, as others have mentioned, that some sort of environmental factor is to blame for your puppies. Have you had this new puppy diagnosed with cancer or do you just suspect it because of similar symptoms to the other pup?

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Hello-I'm New Intro
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:19 pm ((PDT))

Hi Marci,

The thing here is that the meat going into kibble and commercial dog
food is hardly "good", organic, or free of antibiotics and hormones.

It's from animals farmed the exact same way as the meat at the grocery
store -- in many cases the exact same animals -- but it's carcasses or
parts of carcasses that are classified as *not good enough* to retail
for human consumption.

In other words, I agree with you that supermarket meat is pretty poor
stuff. But it's a step up from what you're feeding now, if what you're
feeding is commercial dog food. (Even the premium brands that use only
"human-grade" meat use the exact same grade as the grocery store
stuff, so at worst, it's an even trade.)

Kristin

>I love the idea of feeding raw but the only place around here to get
>good organic meat is at an organic store and it's very expensive or
>even at the grocery store it's expensive. I really don't want to give
>them commercial meat with added antibiotics/hormones/etc so i've not
>went totally raw

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: raw feeding my Papillion
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:57 pm ((PDT))

"maneal_saros" <micware@...> wrote:
> I have been raw feeding my paperanium for about 3 years and started
> feeding my 5 year old papillion a single leg a day but he is having
> dirarea problems and the paperanium never had any problems. What
shall
> I do?
*****
How did you start feeding raw to your Poms? What are you feeding them
now? With your Papillion, did you just haul off and give him a chicken
leg, or did you start with something easier and less bony first?

Should the Pap be getting different amounts of food than what you feed
your Poms? Maybe you overfed him. Is he producing loose stools (which
are very frequently tied to too much of something or other) or does he
have "real" diarrhea? Diarrhea is usually a sign of baterial overgrowth
or other disgestive illness. Which is it?

What else are you feeding the Pap?
Lots of questions. We need more information.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: Urinary Tract Infections
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:36 pm ((PDT))

"notherdirtybird" <fauxbonhomme@...> wrote:
> Neither is opposed to a raw diet, but they want to be certain they
can
> afford it first.
*****
A species appropriate diet is so logical (as well as healthy and
simple) that a better question would be can they afford NOT to feed
it. What you can do to get their attention and get their approval is
produce a hypothetical week or month menu, including the cost of this
menu and the sources you used to find the food. If you can show them
you are darned serious about this, so much so that you did your
homework (oh euww), I suspect they will reconsider. You may not have
all the answers but knowing where to find answers is practically good
enough.

> Gunner is my almost 7 year old German Shorthaired Pointer who has
> always been in good health. In less than six months, he has had two
> urinary tract infections for seemingly no reason.
*****
Two urinary tract infections are usually one urinary tract infection
improperly treated.

My vet
> recommended C/D, but I declined. I think other measures can be taken
> to help Gunner instead.
*****
Yeah, like getting it right the first time (hey, not your doing, the
vet's).

> I want to address the problem with preventatives (after he's done
with
> his medication, of course).
*****
Here's a link to a column that appeared recently on the San Francisco
Chronicle website. I recommend you read it before you go haring
after cranberry pills et al. Be sure to copy the entire link, both
lines.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?
f=/g/a/2007/09/05/petscol.DTL

> If I can prove that a raw diet would help Gunner, I'm nearly
certain I
> can get my parents to at least switch him over.
*****
There's a lot you can use to prove raw is better. But fixing
Gunner's UTI is about fixing Gunner's UTI. For other justifications
for feeding raw, you might check the list archives, also the Rawchat
archives as well.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. Re: Allergy question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:38 pm ((PDT))

"jackie" <jackiehale1@...> wrote:
>
> This is probably a really stupid question, but if a dog is allergic
to
> chicken, would it also be allergic to turkey and duck?
*****
Not stupid!
Not likely.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14. Raw & Stools (poop)
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:40 pm ((PDT))

How bad is the poop from raw?
In other words: The change over is supposed to be immediate. How long do
they deal with diarrhea?
If there's an introducing of a new meat, am i going to have to deal with
these issues?
I am talking about 3 Great Danes & a Dalmatian to start with....The idea of
cleaning up runny poop all over my house is certainly not a positive for a
food change....
Trina--
Chip (deaf Dalmatian)
Casper (deaf Great Dane)
Whisper (deaf Great Dane)
Louie (hearing Great Dane)
Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso)
Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso)
Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12068

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
From: heathermcpher822
1b. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
From: Sandee Lee
1c. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
From: Loraine Jesse
1d. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
From: Sandee Lee

2a. It Worked!! Tripe/Liver Mixture Consumed by Picky Toy Poodle
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)
2b. Re: It Worked!! Tripe/Liver Mixture Consumed by Picky Toy Poodle
From: pelle567
2c. Re: It Worked!! Tripe/Liver Mixture Consumed by Picky Toy Poodle
From: tottime47

3a. Re: Allergy question
From: Casey Post
3b. Re: Allergy question
From: Sonja

4. Hello-I'm New Intro
From: M Williams

5a. Re: Deer legs ok?
From: katkellm
5b. Re: Deer legs ok?
From: Scott Baker

6a. One dog is progressing, the other is regressing
From: steph.sorensen
6b. Re: One dog is progressing, the other is regressing
From: tottime47

7a. Re: Tongue
From: Alan & Andrea Southern

8.1. new to group
From: Lamar Vaughan

9a. Re: Feeding Heads
From: Scott Baker
9b. Re: Feeding Heads
From: Sandee Lee
9c. Re: Feeding Heads
From: katkellm

10. Deer Antlers
From: Shannon Hully

11a. Re: Cleaner teeth!
From: Cdandp2@aol.com

12a. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Jen Dudley
12b. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: vickies_28

13a. Re: HELP PLEASE? AVOCADO PIT :(((
From: Cdandp2@aol.com

14a. Re: Feeding once a day
From: tobyfogle

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
Posted by: "heathermcpher822" heathermcpher822@yahoo.ca heathermcpher822
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:18 pm ((PDT))

HI All I am new to the group we have a Lab currently raw fed and now a
brand new ( 7 weeks old) Saint puppy.
I have no idea how to make sure he is getting all the nutrition he
needs as a growing pup -- we switched our Lab at about 10 months.
can any one suggest serving sizes or menus?
right now he weights about 22 lbs

Thanks alot.
Heather

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:37 pm ((PDT))

Heather,

Lots of meat, lots of variety, lots of food! :)) Seriously, just feed him
a good varied diet using the same ratios you do for your other
dog....assuming you are feeding prey model (up to 80% meat, 10% bone, 10%
organs). Figure about 2-3% of his expected adult weight per day.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "heathermcpher822" <heathermcpher822@yahoo.ca>

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

Sandy,
With feeding 80% meat and only 10 % bone on a large breed, will there be enough natural calcuim?
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

_________________________________________________________________
Discover the new Windows Vista
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:39 pm ((PDT))

Absolutely!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Loraine Jesse" <rothburg@hotmail.com>
> Sandy,
> With feeding 80% meat and only 10 % bone on a large breed, will there be
enough natural calcuim?

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. It Worked!! Tripe/Liver Mixture Consumed by Picky Toy Poodle
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:32 pm ((PDT))

Well - after years of trying any number of things to get this very
opinionated Poodle to eat raw liver, I finally got my hands on some
stinky-oh green tripe. I pureed a bunch of chicken livers and mixed them
in the with tripe (small batch first, as suggested - very helpful). I
kept the mixture heavy on tripe and light on liver, the better to
deceive Miss Prim, aka Molly Anne Malolly, Picky Toy Poodle
Extraordinaire, She of the Picky Appetite, She Who Babysits Her Food for
Days.

I put the mixture on her little pink poodle plate. She devoured it!
Inhaled it! Consumed it in toto!! Asked for more! I was leaping about
the house like some kind of crazed gazelle, shrieking with joy (so much
for subtlety). Molly ate raw liver! Molly ate raw liver! Molly ATE RAW
LIVER!!!

Of course, now that tripe mixture is all she wants.

Carolyn J. Garnaas and Molly Anne Malolly, She Who Must be Fed

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This message and any included attachments are from Siemens Medical Solutions
and are intended only for the addressee(s).
The information contained herein may include trade secrets or privileged or
otherwise confidential information. Unauthorized review, forwarding, printing,
copying, distributing, or using such information is strictly prohibited and may
be unlawful. If you received this message in error, or have reason to believe
you are not authorized to receive it, please promptly delete this message and
notify the sender by e-mail with a copy to Central.SecurityOffice@siemens.com

Thank you

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: It Worked!! Tripe/Liver Mixture Consumed by Picky Toy Poodle
Posted by: "pelle567" krjoyner@firstam.com pelle567
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

LOL...

P.S. My dogs HATE chicken liver...all other liver is muy bueno.

Katie

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: It Worked!! Tripe/Liver Mixture Consumed by Picky Toy Poodle
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:21 pm ((PDT))

Hehehehe! Sounds like you finally got the upper hand, lol.

P/S Charkee says if he ever sees Molly, he's telling!

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)"
<carolyn.garnaas@...> wrote:
I
> kept the mixture heavy on tripe and light on liver,
> I put the mixture on her little pink poodle plate. She devoured it!
> Inhaled it! I was leaping about
> the house like some kind of crazed gazelle, shrieking with joy (so
much
> for subtlety). Molly ate raw liver! Molly ate raw liver! Molly ATE RAW
> LIVER!!!
>
> Of course, now that tripe mixture is all she wants.
>
> Carolyn J. Garnaas and Molly Anne Malolly, She Who Must be Fed

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Allergy question
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:41 pm ((PDT))

> This is probably a really stupid question, but if a dog is allergic to
> chicken, would it also be allergic to turkey and duck?

Nope. Completely different critters!

Casey

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Allergy question
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

No, a dog that is allergic to chicken won't be allergic to turkey and duck unless they are unlucky and specifically allergic to turkey, duck, and chicken. My dog has major allergy symptoms when she eats chicken, but she handles both turkey and duck beautifully.

My understanding is that turkey and duck are completely different proteins.

Just to add a bit, from what I read here, cornish game hens are just small chickens, so a dog that is allergic to chicken will also be allergic to cornish game hen. If I am wrong, anyone feel free to correct me.

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4. Hello-I'm New Intro
Posted by: "M Williams" twilli55@tampabay.rr.com mtm1will
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

I am new to the group as of today. I have 2 yellow labs, one that is 2 yrs (probably close to 100 lbs) and the other is 1 year (around 65 lbs). We live in Florida (needless to say it's too hot to give them a lot of exercise a lot of the time) and they are both pretty healthy. My youngest had some itchiness but since switching to a wheat-free kibble it's been much less. He is pretty small and seems to be more sensative to foods than my big guy. I've always fed them "high quality" kibble (as far as the quality of "kibble" is concerned) with some raw being a bit of meat, egg, etc...thrown in with their food. Not every day but they've gotten where they don't like "unflavored" kibble so I put something on it every day. I give them fruit for a snack once in a while or organic chicken strips or other organic treats. I love the idea of feeding raw but the only place around here to get good organic meat is at an organic store and it's very expensive or even at the grocery store it's expensive. I really don't want to give them commercial meat with added antibiotics/hormones/etc so i've not went totally raw because of price and because of lack of knowledge really. Just to start, I have a couple questions. When you're talking diet, I know that kibble is by far not desirable and not what dogs were meant to eat all the time. As far as real food goes, what is the difference in quality of life between a home cooked meal diet, or raw food diet or even a combination of kibble and one of the two if completely raw is not affordable? I assume that completely raw is by far to produce the best quality of life but does any bit help I guess is what I mean.) I'm very confused on this with all the reading i've done. Also, if you feed raw I don't think the "bacteria" is a problem for the dogs however what about if after they eat they are licking on your childrens face? My youngest is a MESSY eater and after dinner always has food all over his mouth--I always end up with "nasty clothes" as he tends to use me as a "napkin" :-) Just a few intro questions and thanks for any help you can give and confusion to clear up.

Marci

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Deer legs ok?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi Dianna,
When i feed deer or cow legs, i let my dogs strip off the hide and all
that grizzly/connective stuff -sorry, don't know what its called- and
when the bone is stripped naked, i throw them out. Actually when
they are bare, mine don't mess with them anymore, but just in case
yours do, i would just watch and remove. I think the lower legs when
feed as is make a great fun chewing workout, not necessarily a meal,
and i would take them. As for the organs, i'd for sure take the
heart and liver. Except for the intestines, i'd take all the insides
and let your dog decide what you take from the next deer. JMO, KathyM

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: Deer legs ok?
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:16 pm ((PDT))

Yeah, I Feed my Bullmastiff Deer legs when i get them. As stated above, they
make great chew exercises.

heres a skinless leg. lots of meat to chew on
http://scottsite.ca/images/Bullies/Dec12/Dec12.JPG
http://scottsite.ca/images/Bullies/Dec12/Dec121.JPG
http://scottsite.ca/images/Bullies/Dec12/dec122.JPG
and when i took it away
http://scottsite.ca/images/Bullies/Dec12/Dec123.JPG

and one tired out pup!
http://scottsite.ca/images/Bullies/Dec12/Dec124.JPG

On 9/24/07, katkellm <katkellm@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Dianna,
> When i feed deer or cow legs, i let my dogs strip off the hide and all
> that grizzly/connective stuff -sorry, don't know what its called- and
> when the bone is stripped naked, i throw them out. Actually when
> they are bare, mine don't mess with them anymore, but just in case
> yours do, i would just watch and remove. I think the lower legs when
> feed as is make a great fun chewing workout, not necessarily a meal,
> and i would take them. As for the organs, i'd for sure take the
> heart and liver. Except for the intestines, i'd take all the insides
> and let your dog decide what you take from the next deer. JMO, KathyM
>
>
>
>

--
Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. One dog is progressing, the other is regressing
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

Well, I've got my pit bull totally on board. She is my trash
compactor. She's never had a problem eating anything I point to and
say "Eat that." My lab however, is a different story.

She is the one that doesn't like raw liver, doesn't like cooked
liver, and used to like liver treats until she tried raw and cooked
liver and made the connection of it being the same meat. I think it
may partially be because I fed her a piece right after she ate a half
chicken, and about 10 seconds after consuming it, she threw up the
whole meal. I know I don't want to eat a certain food if I've gotten
sick eating it before.

I just introduced fish this evening, and, the same thing happened.
Scarlet took it to her place in the yard and started crunching it
down, while Lucy sniffed it, took it, dropped it, and walked away.
She isn't remotely interested in fish!

I know that is okay, but now she isn't eating the fish capsules
either! Has anyone else had a dog do this? She eats less variety
now than when she started!

Steph
Scarlet, Lucy, and Minkey (the kitty)

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: One dog is progressing, the other is regressing
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:33 pm ((PDT))

Hi Steph,

I have what could be considered a picky eater too..
He will eat goat for several days and then decide he doesn't
like it anymore...today I fed rabbit chunks with fur and some organs.
Last time I fed that (several weeks ago) he acted like he was going
to vomit from the smell, today he tried to swallow it whole and
actually barked for seconds, lol (didn't get them)

What I think is they are more in tune with their bodies and need
certain proteins and go after the food that gives it to them. I can't
figure out any other reason why mine would
eat liver and next time refuse it, then a week later wolf it once
again!

It sure makes it challenging trying to find different meats for him,
but it's also worth it!

Carol, Charkee (Mr Picky) & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "steph.sorensen"
<steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
>
> Well, I've got my pit bull totally on board. She is my trash
> compactor. She's never had a problem eating anything I point to
and
> say "Eat that." My lab however, is a different story.

> I just introduced fish this evening, and, the same thing happened.
Lucy sniffed it, took it, dropped it, and walked away.
> She isn't remotely interested in fish!
>
> I know that is okay, but now she isn't eating the fish capsules
> either! Has anyone else had a dog do this?
> Scarlet, Lucy, and Minkey (the kitty)

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Tongue
Posted by: "Alan & Andrea Southern" wykham@sa.chariot.net.au seawyndriana
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

I feed whole sheep tongues to our cats every week and the poodles get them as well. I have a permanent order with the butcher for 15 hearts and 15 tongues--- $15.00 for the lot.

Alan & Andrea
KITNKABOODLE BURMESE
WYKHAM BRITISH SHORTHAIR
QUINIVA STANDARD POODLES
http://users.chariot.net.au/~wykham
Aldinga Beach
South Australia
Australia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8.1. new to group
Posted by: "Lamar Vaughan" jlamarvaughan@hotmail.com lamar.vaughan
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:31 pm ((PDT))

*** Mod Note: please sign your posts! ***

Hey guys. I am still trying to learn as much as possible about raw feeding. I have a 5 month old boxer and really moving towards raw feeding him. Should I gradually introduce him to raw meat or make a complete change in his diet? Will it effect him if I make this sudden change? Also I would like to know if I should serve his meat to him cold or room temperature?
Thanks for taking time to read my questions and I am looking forward to hearing from some of you vets out there!
Thanx- Good health to all pets!
_________________________________________________________________
Capture your memories in an online journal!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (55)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:16 pm ((PDT))

To those that feed whole heads, what do you do with the heads between
feedings? do you just leave them in the yard?

I had a cow head I fed a while back and after a few days the flys/maggots
pretty much took it over. Im not too worried about the odd one, but I'd
rather the whole meal not be maggots. Suggestions?

--
Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:40 pm ((PDT))

I generally feed them in the winter and leave them outside.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Scott Baker" <scottsbaker@gmail.com>

> To those that feed whole heads, what do you do with the heads between
> feedings? do you just leave them in the yard?

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

9c. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:33 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Baker" <scottsbaker@...> wrote:
>
> To those that feed whole heads, what do you do with the heads between
> feedings? do you just leave them in the yard?

Hi Scott,
I live in a rural area a couple hours from Chicago, so when the flies
disappear, maybe late Oct. until the end of April, i just leave mine
down. I don't feed heads the rest of the year because i only have one
fridge, and my dh and wonderful son are not excepting of the idea of
having them in there. So, i guess part of your answer depends on the
folks you live with. If you live where it gets cold and can
leave them down i would recommend doing so because the dogs get to
dine whenever they want and how ever long they want. Mine love it.
KathyM

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10. Deer Antlers
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:16 pm ((PDT))

Hey, I was just checking out a company that sells pieces of deer antler
as a dog chew toy. I was wondering if these constitute "wreak bones"
(I know they're not bones) or if they're considered ok. I am asking
on behalf of a 70(ish)lb Greyhound who's not terribly into toys as a
rule. I want to find something he'll enjoy and I was wondering if
these would qualify as something good to give him?

Shannon H.

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: Cleaner teeth!
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:16 pm ((PDT))

Spencer also had miserable teeth and gums when I got him almost 2 years ago.
The vet was all over me to get the dental done, but with the heartworms I
was reluctant. He's been on raw for almost 5 maybe 6 months and his teeth
look gorgeous (well, maybe not gorgeous given they're all crooked and half
broken and beat up and some are missing) but the ones that are in there are white
and clean and his gums pink and fresh looking.

Question though...doesn't Lonsdale advocate for a dental after the switch to
address underlying gum disease from history of kibble and bad food? Does
gum disease ever resolve on it's own, or do you have to treat it even after the
teeth look cleaner?

Carol for Spencer

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Jen Dudley" jend404@yahoo.com jend404
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:17 pm ((PDT))

Vicki,

Do you have a positive diagnosis for cancer in the new
puppy? I don't know much about dog metabolism and
feeding - I am still learning, but I do know quite a
bit about tracking disease vs. population density (in
humans). I am assuming your dogs are unrelated?? Two
young animals with cancer in the same household raises
pathogen red flags all over the place. Perhaps those
that know more about dogs will say I am over-reacting
but I don't know.

If you have had two unrelated puppies contract cancer
so young and close together you MUST look in to your
environment. Ask your neighbors if they have dogs with
cancer. Find out how many, etc, etc. Your own health
may depend on it. What kind of cancer? Is it the same
as the first puppy. Look up what is known to cause
that kind of cancer and it may give you a clue where
to start looking. Is it possible they are chewing on
something they shouldn't like paint cans?

Start with home environment (chewables), water, soil,
air pollutants, etc. If you truly suspect the food
then I would look in to where you buy the meat for the
dogs. Where do the feed animals come from? Where do
they graze. Where is the packing and butchering done?

that is what I would do.
Jennifer Dudley

____________________________________________________________________________________
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz

Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________

12b. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:33 pm ((PDT))

Hi Jen

The puppies are related but very distantly. I thougth the same thing
as you did about the house and stuff. Puppies just don't get it that
young and that violent and strange form. I have nothing in the house
that a puppy can chew on that is not safe, only dog toys, bones and
raw hide from the pet store. Dogs never run around unattended. So all
I can suspect is food and/or water or cheimicals I use to clean the
floor.

About meat, where it comes from - no idea and never will be able to
find out. It's a big supermarket chain. I don''t eat it myself, I buy
my meat form an organic store, but cannot really afford to do it for
the dog, it's $7/lbs and up.

Vickie

Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. Re: HELP PLEASE? AVOCADO PIT :(((
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:17 pm ((PDT))

Penny,

Thank you for the encouragement. These stories have been MOST helpful. So
far so good here in urban avocado land. The little guy seems fine.

Carol for Spencer

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14a. Re: Feeding once a day
Posted by: "tobyfogle" eafog@msn.com tobyfogle
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:32 pm ((PDT))

Hi Melissa:

Good for you for starting raw. Feeding once or twice a day is up to
you and what works best for you and the dog. I have an 18 month old
Golden and I feed twice a day because he's always "asking" for food. I
still feed the recommended daily amount, but divided in two. So, I
think what's more important is the daily amount and whether you give it
once or divide it in two is up to you. Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "joeysocgirl" <joeysocgirl@...>
wrote:
>
>
> should start feeding him twice a day. Which I don't believe there is
a
> good reason to. I would really like any opinions on this, It will
> really help me out alot. I really enjoy reading what everyone has to
> say about different post and try to improve on my knowledge on raw.
> Thanks,
>
> Melissa
>

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12067

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: conversation at work.
From: metra_co

2a. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: ginny wilken
2b. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Howard Salob
2c. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Tina Berry
2d. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Sandee Lee
2e. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: rochellemontage

3. getting discouraged again
From: mensrea320@aol.com

4a. Re: Tongue
From: tottime47

5a. Deer legs ok?
From: dianna_obrien
5b. Re: Deer legs ok?
From: Tina Berry
5c. Re: Deer legs ok?
From: mgitaville

6a. Re: Hershey squirts
From: Andrea

7a. Re: Digest Number 12064
From: Loraine Jesse
7b. Re: Digest Number 12064
From: Maofryan@aol.com
7c. Re: Digest Number 12064
From: carolejc2007
7d. Re: Digest Number 12064
From: Howard Salob

8a. new member need advice
From: Debi Jones
8b. Re: new member need advice
From: Maofryan@aol.com

9a. Re: Raw Treats
From: Shannon Hully

10a. Re: baby teeth
From: Jo Ors

11.1. new member
From: tracey faust
11.2. Re: new member
From: Sandee Lee

12a. Feeding once a day
From: joeysocgirl

13. Urinary Tract Infections
From: notherdirtybird

14. Allergy question
From: jackie

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: conversation at work.
Posted by: "metra_co" metraco@hotmail.com metra_co
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:36 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "DebiC" <dcole6@...> wrote:
>
> I had this conversation at work yesterday and thought you all could
relate to my frustration and desk head moment.
>(snip)
> You feed it RAW!!
> Raw meat is not good for dogs. Do you give them bones too?
> Raw meet is bad for dogs. It makes them mean. Bones will kill
them.

:-) Nope, thankfully I can't relate--I had the dog food conversation
with a co-worker recently, and she seemed curious and interested. I
loaned her my Lonsdale book and explained some basics. Next time I
asked her if she was going to try it out, she said that she already
did, and her dog loves it. And she's already seen amazing results in
teeth, breath, etc.

She even made the switch in the middle of a divorce, a move to new
home, and other difficult life events. Seems like there are a few
reasonable folks out there!! (There are still a few others that think
I'm the crazy dog lady, but I'm working on them.)

Metra

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:43 am ((PDT))

On Sep 24, 2007, at 4:42 AM, vickies_28 wrote:

> Hi All
> Thank you for all your advice here, I know you're all strong believers
> in raw. However I am quiting, as my puppy is showing the same exact
> symptoms as my other puppy that died of cancer at 13 months of age.
> The only thing that they had in common is food. Raw food. They all
> started showing the symptoms approx after 2 months on raw. I know all
> you told me that it's impossible that I did it to my other dog. but

I'd say it's never the fault of an appropriate diet. Your dogs have
some underlying chronic disease - not the cancer, but the
predilection for it, from other insults and weaknesses inherited and
then provoked. Could be vaccines, could be something horrid in their
environment, could be some other medical poison like flea or HW
treatments.

In any case, symptoms are only symptoms, not the end of the world.
I'd get some help searching out the problem, on Rawchat, for
instance, on jstsayno2vaccs or TruthAboutVaccines, or best of all on
ClassicalHomeopathyPets. There is something going on here, and it's
not the food, and it's probably quite reversible at this stage.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:30 am ((PDT))

*** Mod Note: this post trimmed for you! ***

Dear Chris,

You speak the truth and facts do not lie. It is good to see some one stand for their convictions.

Sincerely,

Howard

costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote:

I suspect that just as with other undesirable traits that come with
the inbred dog, you may have to adjust diet to compensate for the
blankety-blank stuff we do in the name of beauty, but you should not
have to feed them fake food, just different raw. A raw diet will not
cause cancer.

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:34 am ((PDT))

Ditto what Chris said; raw diet will not cause cancer. Cancer is why I am
now feeding a raw diet - I lost my first 2 gsds to cancer; starting
investigating, and now I only feed raw, do not vaccinate and do not use any
chemicals or preventatives. I try to only feed venison, have 3 freezers to
stock up during hunting season. IMO wild game is the closest thing to prey
model diet. I have been feeding grocery store chicken for 2 months as we
ran out of venison - but it's hunting season now :)
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:00 pm ((PDT))

Vickie,

Not only does a raw diet not cause cancer, it is the first thing recommended
if/when a dog does have cancer.
Cancer feeds on carbohydrates....a cancer sparing diet includes good quality
protein, good fat, no carbs. Raw!

I think you need to find out exactly what is wrong with your dog before
assuming he has cancer. Regardless, you are not going to find increased
health by feeding inappropriate foods.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "vickies_28" <vickies_28@yahoo.com>
Thank you for all your advice here, I know you're all strong believers
in raw. However I am quiting, as my puppy is showing the same exact
symptoms as my other puppy that died of cancer at 13 months of age.
The only thing that they had in common is food. Raw food. They all
started showing the symptoms approx after 2 months on raw. I know all
you told me that it's impossible that I did it to my other dog. but
hey, what do you say now?

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

2e. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "rochellemontage" rochellemontage@yahoo.com rochellemontage
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:07 pm ((PDT))

Vickie,
I'm new here but what I've researched about raw appears to represent
the greatest potential for health in dogs.
In your circumstance there may be other factors that are "similar"
to what your first puppy experienced that you're overlooking, mainly
environmental or possibly your water.
Have your water tested. You may be surprized by what you find.
Also, some cancers can be caused by carpeting or other construction
finish materials.
I doubt highly that the raw diet has anything to do with the
cancer....

Please feel free to email us more details so we can try to help.

Sincerely,
Rochelle

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Vickie,
>
> Not only does a raw diet not cause cancer, it is the first thing
recommended
> if/when a dog does have cancer.
> Cancer feeds on carbohydrates....a cancer sparing diet includes
good quality
> protein, good fat, no carbs. Raw!
>
> I think you need to find out exactly what is wrong with your dog
before
> assuming he has cancer. Regardless, you are not going to find
increased
> health by feeding inappropriate foods.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "vickies_28" <vickies_28@...>
> Thank you for all your advice here, I know you're all strong
believers
> in raw. However I am quiting, as my puppy is showing the same exact
> symptoms as my other puppy that died of cancer at 13 months of age.
> The only thing that they had in common is food. Raw food. They all
> started showing the symptoms approx after 2 months on raw. I know
all
> you told me that it's impossible that I did it to my other dog. but
> hey, what do you say now?
>

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3. getting discouraged again
Posted by: "mensrea320@aol.com" mensrea320@aol.com lespoulets2003
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:31 am ((PDT))

I came home this afternoon to find my dog had pooped all over the place. I
can't seem to get it right. If I give anything other than chicken he goes
all over the floor. If I give a little chicken and then something else it's
about 50/50 he'll go on the floor. If I overfeed obviously he goes on the
floor. He is so super skinny, by breed design mainly, but w/some illness too I
think. He just started seeing Miss Magda. My cat is still going pee on the
floor, I need to start her w/Miss Magda too. Her litter box problems started
when I put her on raw. And now there are fleas all over my house. I
brought them home from a friend of mine's house who didn't tell me she had fleas.
Now all three of my animals are itching, and there are fleas everywhere.
They never had fleas on kibble, and they were not on the meds. I thought fleas
woun't bother them if they were healthy enough, which obviously concerns me.
I have laid down food grade DE on the carpets and the animals, but I don't
know it that's helping. My hubby and I can't pay our bills and are behind on
one, so I'm having a hard time justifying giving my three animals raw meat.
I have an 18 month old daughter and I only have time to really go to the
grocery store and try to look for deals there. I don't shop on Sundays and I
know alot of the grocery store deals are around on Sunday. I'm really close to
putting everyone back on Flint River or Life's Abundance. I guess I'm
posting this so I can get some support or something. I want to keep my animals on
raw, but I don't see how I can do it. I can probably afford to feed chicken
quarters at .40lb w/some occasional beef liver in there. They eat a lot of
chicken quarters now, probably 4-5x a week.

Holly

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Tongue
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:31 am ((PDT))

Hi Yassy,

I know what you mean! I have one who doesn't tolerate a full meal of
tongue either! All of the different tongue meats seem to give him
runny stools, if he gets to much at once. He does love eating it so
have to keep it on the menu!

No butt wiping for me though...I just turn the hose on the
offending area during the summer and pop them in the tub and use
the shower spay in the winter,lol....

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:

> She is 35lb dog but can torelate 1oz of lamb tongue only.More
than that makes softer loose stool and I end up needing wiping her
butt.I am planning to build up thetorelencewith lamb tongue too.
>
> It is bit yucky to handle Tongues but dogs seem to like a lot.
>
> yassy

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Deer legs ok?
Posted by: "dianna_obrien" dianna_obrien@yahoo.com dianna_obrien
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:32 am ((PDT))

I have a hunter friend who is offering me deer legs for my dogs. I
can't remember if these are considered "wreck" bones or not. These
would be legs with hair, skin, etc.

Also another hunter friend who is offering me organs. Any tips on what
to accept and what to pass on? These animals will likely be deer or elk.

Thanks,

Dianna

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: Deer legs ok?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:33 am ((PDT))

"I have a hunter friend who is offering me deer legs for my dogs. I can't
remember if these are considered "wreck" bones or not. These would be legs
with hair, skin, etc.

Also another hunter friend who is offering me organs. Any tips on what to
accept and what to pass on? These animals will likely be deer or elk."

I take everything but the legs - these are teeth breakers. And unless it's
the upper leg, there is not enough meat on them for them to make worth
while. If it's the upper leg, you can take the bone away once the meat is
gone, but mine do not chew leg or knuckle bones.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

5c. Re: Deer legs ok?
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:15 pm ((PDT))

> I take everything but the legs - these are teeth breakers. And
unless it's
> the upper leg, there is not enough meat on them for them to make worth
> while. If it's the upper leg, you can take the bone away once the
meat is
> gone, but mine do not chew leg or knuckle bones.
> --
> Tina Berry - MT
> Kriegshund German Shepherds
> Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
> www.kriegshundgsds.com
>

******Hmmm.... I received 2 whole deer legs last year and hope to be so
lucky this year. Think it depends on the breed.... I am feeding
bullmastiffs so very few bones are an issue. My boys treated the leg
bones of the deer a bit like beef ribs - strip 'em, gnaw on the ends
while, then go slump over after working hard for a meal!

As are most things....to each their own though depending on the dog.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Hershey squirts
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:32 am ((PDT))

Yes, introducing hearts, gizzards, and liver without any bone will
cause loose dark stools. When you introduce new meaty meats (like
gizzard and hearts) as well as organ (liver) you should go slowly and
add it to food they are already ok with. No big deal, just take a
step back until they get back to normal. Next add a little liver
(not the whole thing) to a regular meal. You'll have to work up
their bowel tolerance at first.

> Also my sensitive tummy girl chews on her chicken piece until
> she can fit the remaining piece in her mouth and then swallows it
> practically whole. Will this hurt her?

Nope, this is what dogs do. Chomp until it is small enough to
swallow and then gulp. You could opt for feeding her bigger pieces
so they absolutely have to tear a piece off to swallow it.

> I'm still so scared I might be hurting them by doing something
> wrong!

It's ok, you are doing just fine. Though the dogs seem to know what
to do most of the time, it is us humans that have the real learning
curve.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Digest Number 12064
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:32 am ((PDT))

How do dogs get cardiac complications from build up on their teeth? Having difficulty understanding what they teeth have to do with the heart.
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

_________________________________________________________________
Discover the new Windows Vista
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Digest Number 12064
Posted by: "Maofryan@aol.com" Maofryan@aol.com waldorfsarah
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:53 am ((PDT))

Tooth/tartar build-up is from bacteria. Too many bacteria tend to inflame
the gums, making them bleed easily, and then opening up a pathway for those
"mouth" bacteria to get into the bloodstream. Those "mouth" bacteria can cause
heart issues when they enter the bloodstream. Bacterial waste products are
often toxic to tissue. Your dog can become septic (have a generalized
infection) from a "bad" mouth. Sarah Waldorf Konigsdorf Shepherds

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: Digest Number 12064
Posted by: "carolejc2007" mooska2me@sbcglobal.net carolejc2007
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:53 am ((PDT))

Cardiac problems are caused from the bactaria that build up around
the tooth and the resulting gingivitis. The same is true for you
and me which is why we are told to brush and floss. The bactaria
eventually gets into the blood stream and ultimately affects the
heart.

Carole

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Loraine Jesse <rothburg@...>
wrote:
>
>
> How do dogs get cardiac complications from build up on their
teeth? Having difficulty understanding what they teeth have to do
with the heart.
> Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Discover the new Windows Vista
> http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-
US&form=QBRE
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

7d. Re: Digest Number 12064
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:34 am ((PDT))

Dear Loraine,

With a compromised immune systems bacteria infections can cause a host of problems, including cardiac issues. Raw diets will not cause these problems.

Sincerely,

Howard

Loraine Jesse <rothburg@hotmail.com> wrote:

How do dogs get cardiac complications from build up on their teeth? Having difficulty understanding what they teeth have to do with the heart.
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

__________________________________________________________
Discover the new Windows Vista
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. new member need advice
Posted by: "Debi Jones" vom_mutig_herz@yahoo.com vom_mutig_herz
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:33 am ((PDT))

Hello to ALL,

We show and breed Rottweilers. Currently we have a female here that is due to whelp in the near future who loves raw. However, due to concerns over E-coli, I have been feeding her cooked meat and canned or fresh fish. I know someone who had a female nursing her litter, the pups contracted E-coli, the bitch was fine but all the pups died. Now, our last litter, different female, we fed her a lot of raw and some kibble, but mostly raw. She did great, had 11 very healthy pups they all just thrived. But due to hearing about this other breeders tragedy, I have been uneasy about feeding the raw to Nina again until after she has whelped and weaned her litter.
I am here to learn a lot more about feeding raw and dog friendly people food, because with all these food and treat scares I am turning into a basket case. lol So I look forward to learning all I can, thank you for having me here.

kindest regards,
Debi

www.vommutigherz.com

---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: new member need advice
Posted by: "Maofryan@aol.com" Maofryan@aol.com waldorfsarah
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:53 am ((PDT))

Debi
The other dog didn't get e-coli from raw food. The puppies got it going
through the vaginal canal...the vulva is located right under the "poop chute"
and the vaginal canal is easily contaminated. They should have been
diagnosed early....mastiff types (like Rotties) have the conformation to encourage
contamination of the vulvar area...so it is not totally uncommon for puppies to
contract e-coli...and it should be treated when they become weakened....and
before they start to die. Sarah Waldorf Konigsdorf Shepherds

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: Raw Treats
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:30 pm ((PDT))

Anne,

Where do you get your freeze-dried liver and hearts? I'd love to get
some for my guy! :-)

Shannon H.

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: baby teeth
Posted by: "Jo Ors" houndshappy@yahoo.co.uk houndshappy
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:31 pm ((PDT))

Hi
He's a 5 month old English Springer Spaniel. On the go ahead from
here I fed him poultry necks and a chicken wing tonight and he loved
it!! I think it really helped his gums.
Thanks for all your advice.
Jo

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Michael Moore <m-tak@...> wrote:
>
> >>I have since acquired a new puppy. Currently he is on raw minced
> meat. I'm a little confused as to whether he can have bones, mainly
> because he is teething and has very small and wobbly teeth at the
> moment. Are bones and poultry necks ok? Would he still be able to
> chew them up ok?<<
>
> Jo - you didn't mention how old (I'm assuming around 4 mos.
since he's teething) or what breed your new puppy is, but here's
my .02 worth. My Corgi puppies could eat bone-in chicken breasts,
including the bone, at about 6 wks. Poultry bones in general, and
chicken in particular, are quite soft. Most puppies have no trouble
with them. I will tell you that my Corgis took a loooooong time to
eat bones while they were teething, but still got through them. I
say, give the fella some bone-in parts and let him try!
> However, except for toy/small breeds, I consider necks rather
boney -- unless you add some meaty boneless meat to them.
>
>
> -- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly
Golden rescue) in NW Ohio
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11.1. new member
Posted by: "tracey faust" traceyf@uni.edu blacks.silver
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:07 pm ((PDT))

Welcome Shara!
Tell us about you and your pet so we can help you with pros and cons. THings like where your from, age and breed of dog, health problems with your dog. Things like that we can address here.

Trace

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (79)
________________________________________________________________________

11.2. Re: new member
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:16 pm ((PDT))

Shara,

The pros are feeding a dog the food he is designed to eat....so better
health, cleaner teeth, even more stable temperament.

The cons are.....ummm, I can't think of any! Other than becoming obsessed
with finding good deals and then not having enough freezer space! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "shara brown" <scoder@charter.net>
Im a new member.I just joined today!Someone told me about this group
and feeding raw meats to dogs!I now feed dry food to my dog and i
thought i would stop by and check out more about feeding my dog raw
foods!Im just woundering if any of you have had any problems with feed
your animals raw meats?What are the pro's and con's of feed raw meats!

Messages in this topic (79)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Feeding once a day
Posted by: "joeysocgirl" joeysocgirl@yahoo.com joeysocgirl
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:25 pm ((PDT))

I have been feeding my golden raw for about 3 months now and he is
doing great!I feed him once a day usually in the evening , which he
doesn't seem to have a problem with. I still live at home which makes
it hard for me to do things my parents my not agree with, they think i
should start feeding him twice a day. Which I don't believe there is a
good reason to. I would really like any opinions on this, It will
really help me out alot. I really enjoy reading what everyone has to
say about different post and try to improve on my knowledge on raw.
Thanks,

Melissa

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13. Urinary Tract Infections
Posted by: "notherdirtybird" fauxbonhomme@gmail.com notherdirtybird
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:15 pm ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!

I was referred to this group by someone on Dogster. I was told some
people here have more experience with the problem my dog is having.

First, I want to say that my three dogs are not currently on a raw
diet. I have, however, been researching it for about six months now
and I do want to switch over at some point, when I am able. I'm 17 and
live at home with my parents, who pay for the dogs' food right now.
Neither is opposed to a raw diet, but they want to be certain they can
afford it first.

Gunner is my almost 7 year old German Shorthaired Pointer who has
always been in good health. In less than six months, he has had two
urinary tract infections for seemingly no reason. This is odd to me,
because I've always felt Gunner is the healthiest of the three. My vet
recommended C/D, but I declined. I think other measures can be taken
to help Gunner instead.

I want to address the problem with preventatives (after he's done with
his medication, of course). My mom and I bought cranberry pills which
he will get daily after his round of medication. I've also heard Apple
Cider Vinegar can help, so that will be put in their water soon.

I have heard stories of cats who have recurrent UTIs switching to raw
and having it help. Something about the extra moisture in raw meat is
helpful. Has anyone here dealt with anything similar to this? If so,
were the results positive.

If I can prove that a raw diet would help Gunner, I'm nearly certain I
can get my parents to at least switch him over.

I know raw is not the cure, but it can't hurt, I would think.

Any advice on this topic would be really helpful. Thank you in advance!

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14. Allergy question
Posted by: "jackie" jackiehale1@bellsouth.net jackieoscar2000
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:15 pm ((PDT))

This is probably a really stupid question, but if a dog is allergic to
chicken, would it also be allergic to turkey and duck? Thoughts?
Thanks,
Jackie

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------