Feed Pets Raw Food: Jul 15, 2007

Sunday, July 15, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11809

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Newby raw feeding question
From: nickandnoel@aol.com
1b. Re: Newby raw feeding question
From: Sandee Lee
1c. Re: Newby raw feeding question
From: ginny wilken
1d. Re: Newby raw feeding question
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: stinky gaaaas
From: nickandnoel@aol.com
2b. Re: stinky gaaaas
From: Sandee Lee
2c. Re: stinky gaaaas
From: WAGC
2d. sweetbreads (was Re: stinky gaaaas
From: Laurie Swanson

3a. Re: supplement w/digestive enzymes?
From: Giselle
3b. Re: supplement w/digestive enzymes?
From: ginny wilken
3c. Re: supplement w/digestive enzymes?
From: nwohiopma

4a. Re: handling raw meat
From: nickandnoel@aol.com
4b. Re: handling raw meat
From: Laurie Swanson

5.1. File - Other related lists
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com

6a. File - Admin-Trim it, Sign it, and Sig lines-PLEASE READ!!!
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com

7a. Basted turkey, good or bad?
From: dianna_obrien
7b. Re: Basted turkey, good or bad?
From: costrowski75
7c. Re: Basted turkey, good or bad?
From: Laurie Swanson

8. Okay guys! 1st raw feeding w/ new puppy :) :) :) LOVE it! *Ques
From: Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com

9a. Getting Started--at a loss
From: mysophie913
9b. Re: Getting Started--at a loss
From: rosey031801

10a. Re: Meats?
From: Laurie Swanson

11. Re: lactating bitch refusing raw
From: Kathy

12a. anal glands
From: shella

13.1. won't eat (was Re: Nature's Variety
From: Laurie Swanson

Messages
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1a. Re: Newby raw feeding question
Posted by: "nickandnoel@aol.com" nickandnoel@aol.com lils_danes
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:01 pm ((PDT))

When I have a nursing bitch....I feed triple raw and leave kibble out all
the time. This is not a time to reduce food, that can be done later. If you
feed her two to three times a day on raw then leave out food at night then she
may not eat the food, but knowing its there will give her some satisfaction.

Lillian

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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1b. Re: Newby raw feeding question
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:09 pm ((PDT))

I don't understand why you have kibble in your house if you are a raw
feeder? Why offer something so totally inappropriate at a time when proper
nourishment is crucial?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <nickandnoel@aol.com>

> When I have a nursing bitch....I feed triple raw and leave kibble out all
> the time. This is not a time to reduce food, that can be done later. If
you
> feed her two to three times a day on raw then leave out food at night
then she
> may not eat the food, but knowing its there will give her some
satisfaction.

Messages in this topic (6)
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1c. Re: Newby raw feeding question
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:02 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 15, 2007, at 11:57 AM, nickandnoel@aol.com wrote:

> When I have a nursing bitch....I feed triple raw and leave kibble
> out all
> the time. This is not a time to reduce food, that can be done
> later. If you
> feed her two to three times a day on raw then leave out food at
> night then she
> may not eat the food, but knowing its there will give her some
> satisfaction.

Tell me why offering crummy food makes sense for a mom. And you
probably shouldn't be free feeding anyway; it's not natural with a
raw diet, and we KNOW it's not natural with kibble.

Ever so many raw litters have been raised by healthy, well-fed
bitches without introducing junk food.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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1d. Re: Newby raw feeding question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:06 pm ((PDT))

nickandnoel@... wrote:
>
> When I have a nursing bitch....I feed triple raw and leave kibble
out all
> the time. This is not a time to reduce food,
*****
You can feed triple raw and leave kibble out--as in not feed it--to the
immediate benefit of both mom and babies. Feeding high quality easily
digestible food in any amount is healthier than free feeding kibble.

But I suspect you know that.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. Re: stinky gaaaas
Posted by: "nickandnoel@aol.com" nickandnoel@aol.com lils_danes
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:01 pm ((PDT))

would the sweetbreads be causing the gas? Maybe that I don't
understand..doesn't sweetbreads have nothing but grain, sugar and yeast in it. In humans
yeast can reactly badly with GI tract and cause severe gas. it is possible
the gas is caused by the sweetbreads..get rid of them and see if it changes
(give it at least two weeks)..then if that doesn't work..try something else.

Belching, burping is something mine due immediately after eating but I don't
notice it during the day, just at night when they are eating.

Lillian

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Messages in this topic (14)
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2b. Re: stinky gaaaas
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:20 pm ((PDT))

Sweetbreads are the thymus and pancreas glands of animals.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <nickandnoel@aol.com>

> would the sweetbreads be causing the gas? Maybe that I don't
> understand..doesn't sweetbreads have nothing but grain, sugar and yeast in
it. In humans
> yeast can reactly badly with GI tract and cause severe gas. it is
possible
> the gas is caused by the sweetbreads..get rid of them and see if it
changes
> (give it at least two weeks)..then if that doesn't work..try something
else.

Messages in this topic (14)
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2c. Re: stinky gaaaas
Posted by: "WAGC" wagc@sasktel.net frustrated_tracey
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:39 pm ((PDT))

One of my Standard Poodle pups is just awful with stinky gas, I put him on raw just after I got him at 8 weeks of age but he was stinky with kibble also, I dont know why he is so stinky.....The good thing is my brother in law is also stinky and he has a blast grossing us all out, this is my revenge.

Tracey

----- Original Message -----
From: monell2000
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 1:53 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] stinky gaaaas

My standard poodles have very stinky gas.Does anyone else have this
problem on the raw?? It doesn't seem to matter which meat they eat. I
have a different smell than on K****e, but still stinky.
Last night my female burped, and it had the same smell as thier gas.
Is this normal??

Monell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (14)
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2d. sweetbreads (was Re: stinky gaaaas
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:53 pm ((PDT))

I shared this before, but it seems appropriate here...My husband and I
thought the same thing! We ordered some a few yrs. ago at a fancy
schmancy restaurant. Needless to say, we were a bit surprised. I
think the waiter knew we were clueless, too, and when we casually
asked, "Now, what exactly is this?" and he told us, I know he was
laughing inside.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, nickandnoel@... wrote:

doesn't sweetbreads have nothing but grain, sugar and yeast in it.

Messages in this topic (14)
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3a. Re: supplement w/digestive enzymes?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:18 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Monica!
Need more details, please!
What breed of dog is he?
How much does he weigh?
What is his overall appearance like = Too thin/too fat, glossy
coat/dull coat, etc.?
What exactly do you feed him?
When?
How much at a meal?
What other items might he eat; food, treats, stuff he buries or finds
in the yard or walks, or other?
Who else feeds him, besides you?
What changes may have happened just before or at the onset of the
vomiting/loose stools?
Environmental = inside / outside?
Lifestyle?
Does he drink from puddles of water, ponds, lakes?
Swim in them?

Was testing done for parasites such as Giardia, more than once?

Slippery Elm Bark Powder should help soothe his digestive system until
you can pinpoint the problem;
http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm
You can also get it at a health food store. I'd mix 4 tsp to a 1/2 cup
of ground/minced chicken. Make into 4 meatballs. Feed one prior to
each meal.
Or, if he is having a 'bad' day; vomiting/loose stools, etc., you can
fast him for a day. Offer plenty of water. Feed one SEBP ball about
four times a day during the fast day, and in between meals the next
day or so afterward.

I wouldn't change a whole lot of things, especially diet, willy -
nilly, until I made a complete list of everything that could be the
cause, exactly what he is eating & drinking daily, and changes that
had been made at the time of the presentation of the initial problem.
Problems, and their resolutions, are easier to figure out if you keep
the changes controlled so you can see what effect they have. Or not.

Let us know all the details, we can help you, I'm sure!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> My dog is 4yrs old and has been raw fed since he was 6 mos old.
>
> Last April he was violently ill - throwing up, loose stools, couldn't
> even keep water down. <snip>
> Here's the thing. He still vomits dinner several nights a week. Some
> days he is right as rain, others he seems ill (listless, whiny,
> upset tummy). The vet can't find anything wrong with him but I am
> terrified that he is really sick.
<snip>
> Do you have any ideas what could be wrong with him? Its really scary
> when the vet even throws up her hands in confusion.
>
> thanks
> Monica and Loki
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: supplement w/digestive enzymes?
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:57 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 15, 2007, at 11:03 AM, Monica wrote:

> Here's the thing. He still vomits dinner several nights a week. Some
> days he is right as rain, others he seems ill (listless, whiney,
> upset tummy). The vet can't find anything wrong with him but I am
> terrified that he is really sick.
>
> She suggested either switching to Evo for a while (she does support
> the rawfeeding but is wondering if since his illness he needs easy to
> digest food - meat without bone gives him the runs) and/or to add
> digestive enzymes to see if that helps. What do you all think?
>
> Do you have any ideas what could be wrong with him? Its really scary
> when the vet even throws up her hands in confusion.

If the vet doesn't know what's wrong, she has no basis for making
such a diet recommendation, which, of course, is total crap.

Here's what I'm thinking: Has he had distemper vaccinations? Many
dogs develop lifelong digestive impairment from the vaccine, mine
among them. You can consider taking him to an excellent classical
homeopath who can unravel the vaccinosis, but also, you can continue
with raw, and modify it as you need to, finding out what he likes,
what's good for him, and what he is more likely to keep down. My dog
will hork up a big tripe meal, or too many chicken feet - I think
they poke his insides - or a large meal of anything - but not every
time. So it's not exclusively ground or big pieces, but mostly the
amount, and the time taken eating it - longer is better.

You could try digestive enzymes, but I doubt they will make a
difference. And meat without bones gives a LOT of dogs the runs, or
close enough to it. Again, the effects of the vaccine seem sometimes
to be "quick" digestion, things passing through too fast, and that
certainly defines the meat poop syndrome. Since darn near every dog
has been insulted by distemper, it makes sense that this is a common
issue.

Does he eat up what he's horked? Do you give him a chance to? Would
he do better with smaller, more frequent meals? Are there any other
stressors around mealtime - like kids, hovering, other animals, a
rush to go out?

Tell us more...

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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3c. Re: supplement w/digestive enzymes?
Posted by: "nwohiopma" nwohiopma@yahoo.com nwohiopma
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi Monica,

Did the blood work include tests looking for pancreatitis? Sounds like
it could be chronic pancreatitis, but I think you should check with
your vet to see if the pancreas stuff was checked with blood work.

Candace and the 4 Collies

Went to the vet, did the xrays, blood work etc.
> couldn't find anything wrong. They rehydrated him, gave him some meds
> to stop the vomitting and after a few days he was much better.
>
> Here's the thing. He still vomits dinner several nights a week. Some
> days he is right as rain, others he seems ill (listless, whiney,
> upset tummy). The vet can't find anything wrong with him but I am
> terrified that he is really sick.

Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Re: handling raw meat
Posted by: "nickandnoel@aol.com" nickandnoel@aol.com lils_danes
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:27 pm ((PDT))

I have to agree with Bill, we feed all our dogs in the house. I'm actually
more worried about what my dogs will pick up from eating outside than what
our family will pick up from feeding them in the house. Confine them to an
area if you must, but feeding them inside IMO is safer for them. FYI Lepto is
picked up from urine on the ground from an infected animal...if animals
running wild are going in the kennel to get the food then most likely those wild
animals are peeing too. That's only one example of how your pet could get
sick.

Confine to an area in the house, ie bathroom, backporch, laundry room (all
places I haven't eaten food in) or basement...if its a small enough dog feed it
in the bathtub, you can clean it with bleach or another antibacterial after
they finish.

Lillian

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Messages in this topic (14)
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4b. Re: handling raw meat
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:53 pm ((PDT))

Hi Jenn,

You can't confine him to an area in another room or the kitchen on a
towel, tarp, shower curtain, blanket? Or in one of those fold-out
exercise pens? Or in a crate/kennel? If not, then I would train him
to use something like a shower curtain outside. Put it where you want
him to eat, set his food on it, sit a few feet away, let him eat. If
he takes the food off the mat, put it back on. He will learn what you
want, and that he can eat in peace when he keeps his food there. Does
that sound like it would work?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tomjennabby" <tomjennabby@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi all.
> Just wondering if anyone has any advice on how to contain the mess.

Messages in this topic (14)
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5.1. File - Other related lists
Posted by: "rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com" rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:49 pm ((PDT))

This list is part of a group of lists run by the same moderation team. Since several of the lists are quite large we often encourage that threads be taken to some of the smaller subject specific lists so you may want to join the lists that cover issues you are interested in now.

The lists are:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oldrawguys/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/catandkittenhealth/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learntoshow/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DogHealth/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dogmentor/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawbreeder/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawPup/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RMBLobby/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canineaggression/

And if you are stuck on a particular issue that you just can't seem to work out, try this list:

http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/rawissues

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BasicRaw/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalFerrets/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawVet/
For vets, vet techs and vet students only

There is also a list of lists where other raw feeding lists can be found. Many are breed specific, location specific or subject specific.

http://www.rawlearning.com

Thanks from the moderation team!

Messages in this topic (113)
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6a. File - Admin-Trim it, Sign it, and Sig lines-PLEASE READ!!!
Posted by: "rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com" rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:49 pm ((PDT))

Hello all! (Don't delete without reading. Yes, there is a test later.)

Firstly, the raw feeding list was established in 1999. It has evolved under a couple of different names, but remains with primarily the same list moderation team.

This primary objective of the list is to provide a place where people who
feed raw food or who want to feed raw can discuss this and closely associated issues.

This is not a list to discuss which kibble or home cooking method is best.
There are other email lists that can provide you with that sort of forum.
The forum here is specifically to discuss appropriate raw diets.

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We aim at all times to maintain a learning environment.
Every so often someone joins the list with a different agenda.
We work hard in the background to do everything we can to keep discussion on topic at all times, and those who don't find the environment comfortable (about 0.5%), we encourage to join other more suitable email lists.

The most important thing is you join a group you are comfortable with.
We acknowledge the vast differences that exist between people and their learning styles, and as you'll appreciate we can't make everyone happy.

Now for a few of the easy rules:

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Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Basted turkey, good or bad?
Posted by: "dianna_obrien" dianna_obrien@yahoo.com dianna_obrien
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:39 pm ((PDT))

Hello everyone. I started feeding my cocker spaniel and my terrior raw
in April and all has been well. I've used the postings from this list
to guide me.

I was considering feeding a whole turkey but noticed it said it was
basted with some percentage of some chemical and water. I think I read
that this will make my dogs sick.

Any experience with this?

Dianna O'Brien
& Larry and Chuckie

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: Basted turkey, good or bad?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:25 pm ((PDT))

"dianna_obrien" <dianna_obrien@...> wrote:
>> I was considering feeding a whole turkey but noticed it said it was
> basted with some percentage of some chemical and water. I think I
read
> that this will make my dogs sick.
*****
It may or it may not.
Life is often fickle.

I recommend you try a hunk of the bird before offering the whole
thang. If the single meal digests well without side effects, you
probably can feed enhanced bird. Some dogs respond poorly, others do
not. Some can eat enhanced in small amounts but not in big doses.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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7c. Re: Basted turkey, good or bad?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:54 pm ((PDT))

If you already have it or really want to buy it cuz it's so cheap, go
ahead and try it if you want. But I would try to find natural meats
whenever possible. Extra salt and other chemicals are not ideal.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dianna_obrien" <dianna_obrien@...>
wrote:
I was considering feeding a whole turkey but noticed it said it was
> basted with some percentage of some chemical and water.

Messages in this topic (3)
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8. Okay guys! 1st raw feeding w/ new puppy :) :) :) LOVE it! *Ques
Posted by: "Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com" Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com irishcateyes1
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:41 pm ((PDT))

Really awesome! Oh my! I had a problem getting my last dog to eat it years
ago, but he was ridden with cancer and we didn't know it, so even with that I
was still worried we would be coaxing the new puppy to eat. BUT NO!!! LOL!

He almost attacked it! Sambuca is 8 weeks old and we just got him yesterday
evening. This morning was his first REAL meal.

Here are the pics:

My questions are:

1. Since Sambuca weighs 17 lbs--I am supposed to give him 1.7 lbs of RAW,
right? Now, is this for the whole day's combined feeding amount spread out over
3-4 feedings or 1.7 lbs at each feeding? I think it is 1.7 lbs for the whole
day total.

He has been so content all day long that he hasn't seemed hungry again until
now--plus he took his first poop today FINALLY :) at about 6:00 and then 15
minutes later took his second so now I know he is ready for more--lol! He
napped almost all day too. Played some.

2. Just curious how much to give this next time.

This morning I gave him a chicken quarter--meaty too--pulled excess skin and
fat off--left some but this piece had alot so that is why I pulled off
excess---he did great with it.

But I guess one chicken quarter seems to weigh a little over a pound.

3. Was that too much for one feeding? He left some of the leg bone and was
done with it. He walked away from it.

4. So how much do I give him now? Whole chicken quarter again or just half?
If so, what half?

Sorry for all the questions but I don't want to give him too much his first
day. He has done so well so far and I just pray that it is this easy at every
feeding. :)

5. He was also laying all over the "feeding" towel so I felt I had to wipe
him down with water beofere I let him back inside--i mean he had chicken pieces
in his fur--LOL! Is there a better way to do this?

6. And once, the third time, I put the chicken back on the towel, he
growled. So i said No abruptly and put it on the towel and then when he was eating,
I said he was a good boy. Was that handled appropriately? I know he is young
but still I don't want him growling at me or my 5 year old. We gave him
plenty of room to eat except when he took the chicken off the towel. Then we
stepped in and put it back and then stepped out. He didn't growl anymore after
that. Plan to move him indoors later and on rainy days so I want it in one spot
for easier clean up.

7. Also, the bag of chicken quarters had the date of 07/16 on it. All are
in fridge right now but noticed when I opened the bag it stunk up the whole
kitchen. I am assuming it was all the blood in the bag that stunk and the fact
that it was sealed and I broke the seal. Feed it to him b/c I have been
reading how strong their stomachs are. It was okay right? Also, what about when
the 17th comes around how long can it stay in the fridge before it goes too bad
for the dog? Should I freeze?

Thanks again for your patience in answering my questions that I have
bombarded you with. :)

Tamatha
NC

Any dog can teach a child responsibility and commitment.

A German Shepherd Dog will show the child the meaning
of dedication.

"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life,
his love, his leader. He will be yours faithful and true, to the last beat of
his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." --Unknown

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Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. Getting Started--at a loss
Posted by: "mysophie913" mysophie913@yahoo.com mysophie913
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:34 pm ((PDT))

Greetings! It has been suggested to me that I strongly consider
switching my 10 year old Sheltie to a raw food diet. She has been
recently diagnosed with CHF and needs a no salt diet. And then there is
the problem of really bad arthritis. I have had to resort to pain meds
on and off---which I hate to do. She has been on Cosequin for years,
with no positive results. I am very open to a new diet for her----but I
guess I would feel more comfortable with a commercial raw food, at the
beginning. Any suggestions? And are they low sodium????Thank you for
the help..

Sophie

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: Getting Started--at a loss
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:10 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER TO TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Sophie,
I switched my ten year old border collie mix a year ago. It is
undoubtedly the best thing I have ever done for my little friend.
His main problems were arthritis from and old injury, low body
weight, and dirty teeth. The teeth were clean in three weeks, no
more $200 dentals. His pain level was better right away and I
rarely have to give him his meds and "as needed" not daily. He
gained three lbs in 3 months, which for him is amazing. I have seen
evidence that the pain comes back if he gets bonelss meats for more
than three days in a row, so the bone and cartlidge is helping ALOT!
Please give this a try. It is so easy to just hand him the chunk o
chicken as I call it, and let him do the rest. No mixing, no
cutting, just hand it to him. For his size he eats a chicken leg
quarter a day most of the time and for the variety he gets all the
other stuff too, but chicken is his daily routine. He does well and
he deserves it.
Cheryl

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mysophie913" <mysophie913@...>
wrote:
>
> Greetings! It has been suggested to me that I strongly consider
> switching my 10 year old Sheltie to a raw food diet. She has been
> recently diagnosed with CHF and needs a no salt diet. And then
there is
> the problem of really bad arthritis. I have had to resort to pain
meds
> on and off---which I hate to do. She has been on Cosequin for
years,
> with no positive results. I am very open to a new diet for her----
but I
> guess I would feel more comfortable with a commercial raw food, at
the
> beginning. Any suggestions? And are they low sodium????Thank you
for
> the help..
>
> Sophie
>

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Meats?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:08 pm ((PDT))

Hi Cherie,

Your dogs can eat any meats--chicken, turkey, rabbit, pork, beef,
goat, lamb, deer/venison, elk, fish...anything you can get. Also
eggs. There is a great list compiled by another member--try
searching the archives under cheap meat sources or something like
that. Here's some ideas: Watch sales flyers, tell your friends and
family you'll take any freezer-burned meat off their hands, post on
freecycle or craigs list or other boards that you want any hunter
leftovers or freezer clean-outs to "make" food for your dog, ask any
farmers/ranchers for culls, ask butchers for leftovers, organs, etc.
Join a local buying co-op (where do you live?), check out the
carnivore feed supplier Yahoo group.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cherie Ferebee
<oceanbaylabradors@...> wrote:
>
> What kinds of meats are okay for dogs to eat? My problem is that I
am on a tight budget at this time.

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11. Re: lactating bitch refusing raw
Posted by: "Kathy" xanadu8@insightbb.com aresblue2000
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:11 pm ((PDT))

I am having a problem with my Portuguese Water Dog bitch refusing to eat raw. She started getting picky during her pregnancy. She delivered 2 puppies, one of which lived. She then continued to act like the raw food was nauseating to her. She is 5 yrs old and has been on raw since she was 10 months old. She has had picky episodes in the past but not when she was lactating. Anyway the ONLY thing she would eat was beef liver but it had to be lightly seared. The puppy started losing weight so my vet suggested trying a prescription canned food that was high in calories and could be spoon fed if necessary. Well, the spoiled brat now will only eat this food IF I spoon feed her while she is in the whelping box.. I know, she needs tough love but I can't do it until the puppy is weaned. I have started to hide pieces of meat in the canned food to get her to switch over. My question is ....Should I sear or lightly cook the meat or is raw okay to mix in if she will eat it? Funny thing is our 1 yr old from the last litter is also on the "raw is icky" band wagon, and she has been fed raw from the beginning. She had to be on antibiotics and have food in her stomach so I started lightly searing her food to get her to eat it too. I have a big mess on my hands with these two girls. They are 45-50 lb dogs. So....temporarily, can canned food be mixed with raw? I've heard not to mix raw with kibble.
I can't wait to get them back to eating properly on their raw diet!
Thanks,
Kathy L

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. anal glands
Posted by: "shella" shellabella76@sbcglobal.net shellaroo76
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:51 pm ((PDT))

My min schnauzer has always been sensitive to "bottom" issues, but
lately she licks like crazy. After a while, I can definetly smell why
she is licking. Any suggestions? Currently she is eating chicken
wings every two days and medallions of chicken, veggies and some
turkey the other days.

Shella

Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13.1. won't eat (was Re: Nature's Variety
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:52 pm ((PDT))

Cherie,

What have you tried to feed and what has happened/how has your dog
reacted? More details will help us sort it out. One thing I noticed
in your post is that it sounded like maybe another dog got to the
food before the shih tzu could. She may need more space/time--how
are you feeding them? All together?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cherie Ferebee
<oceanbaylabradors@...> wrote:

I just wanted to try to see if she would eat it because she doesn't
eat anything. She doesn't like dog food, dog treats, etc. She likes
cheese and all natural turkey dogs (as treats when training). She
wants cat food, but is not allow to have it. She sniffed the raw
Lamb, but my sister's daschund (spelling?) kept sniffing it, and then
our fox hound ate it. She loved it! Any ideas on getting my shih
tzu to eat raw?

Messages in this topic (32)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11808

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: stinky gaaaas
From: Evie
1b. Re: stinky gaaaas
From: monell2000
1c. Re: stinky gaaaas
From: monell2000
1d. Re: stinky gaaaas
From: pet.wellness
1e. Re: stinky gaaaas
From: Nathalie Poulin

2a. Re: Newby raw feeding question
From: Evie

3a. Re: handling raw meat
From: kaseyfrankie
3b. Re: handling raw meat
From: Nathalie Poulin
3c. Re: handling raw meat
From: Carol Santangelo
3d. Re: handling raw meat
From: elegantkennels
3e. Re: handling raw meat
From: carnesbill

4a. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
From: Nathalie Poulin
4b. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: Raw Vets & Bacteria
From: Nathalie Poulin
5b. Re: Raw Vets & Bacteria
From: kaseyfrankie
5c. Re: Raw Vets & Bacteria
From: pet.wellness

6a. Re: Whats that in his poop???
From: Yasuko herron
6b. Re: Whats that in his poop???
From: Sandee Lee

7a. Re: Poo wrapped in mucous
From: geraldinebutterfield
7b. Re: Poo wrapped in mucous
From: Yasuko herron

8.1. Re: Nature's Variety
From: Sandee Lee

9a. Re: cat will only eat pork. period :( THANKS LINDSAY
From: alliecaracleo

10a. Re: Little odgs
From: tottime47

11a. Re: changing over to raw for the first time
From: kevinvictorbutton

12. supplement w/digestive enzymes?
From: Monica

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: stinky gaaaas
Posted by: "Evie" archie.willow@yahoo.co.uk archie.willow
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:17 am ((PDT))

Hey,

Before feeding raw my JRT would have a room cleared with his gas....
it was BAD!!! My whippet x rarely gave off any; being a lady of
course, lol.

Since changing to raw I have to say the gas situation has changed for
the better; rarely do either "let off some steam". The only times
I've noticed gas is introducing them to lamb and to pork; then they
both were clearing rooms! But I think that was because I introduced
both of those meats in a "baptism of fire". Huge hunks of meat;
unlike other meats that I have introduced, which have been added a
little at a time to meats that they are already familiar with.

HTH,
Evie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "monell2000" <monell2000@...>
wrote:
>
> My standard poodles have very stinky gas.Does anyone else have this
> problem on the raw??
> Monell

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: stinky gaaaas
Posted by: "monell2000" monell2000@yahoo.com monell2000
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:13 am ((PDT))

I feed them mostly chicken. I give them hunks of beef or pork, with
thier chicken, or turkey, two or three times a week. They also get
liver frozen, as a snack three times a week. And also sweetbreads
twice a week. once a week they get kidney as a treat.
Monell

- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nathalie Poulin
<poulin_nathalie@...> wrote:
>
> What EXACTLY are you feeding them?
>
> Nathalie
>
> --- monell2000 <monell2000@...> wrote:
>
> > My standard poodles have very stinky gas.Does anyone
> > else have this
> > problem on the raw?? It doesn't seem to matter which
> > meat they eat. I
> > have a different smell than on K****e, but still
> > stinky.
> > Last night my female burped, and it had the same
> > smell as thier gas.
> > Is this normal??
> >
> > Monell
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada
Messenger at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/
>

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: stinky gaaaas
Posted by: "monell2000" monell2000@yahoo.com monell2000
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:13 am ((PDT))

Yes they have always purped a lot. but never so stinky. I have been
feeding raw for two months now.
Monell

In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "pet.wellness" <pet.wellness@...> wrote:
>
> My poodle has never passed gas after eating raw food. How long have
> you been feeding raw? Are the other eructations, i.e, burps regular or
> is this something new? Pamela
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "monell2000" <monell2000@> wrote:
> >
> > My standard poodles have very stinky gas.Does anyone else have this
> > problem on the raw?? It doesn't seem to matter which meat they eat.
I
>
> >
>

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: stinky gaaaas
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:31 am ((PDT))

Eructations, i.e, burping, passing gas, regurgitation - especially if
excessive - are signs of digestive imbalance according to homeopathy.
I am not an expert, but I suspect that this will resolve in time with
a good diet. If it does not, or you find it a nuisance, contact a
homeopathic vet. Pamela

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "monell2000" <monell2000@...> wrote:
>
> Yes they have always purped a lot. but never so stinky. I have been
> feeding raw for two months now.
> Monell
>

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

1e. Re: stinky gaaaas
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:31 am ((PDT))

Maybe you're giving too much liver/sweetbreads/kidney
in a week? I'm not sure as I'm fortunate enough not to
have a gassy dog.
(If anyone can answer this better than me, please do
so!)
Maybe try cutting those down a bit, or spreading it
out more over 2 weeks..

Nathalie

--- monell2000 <monell2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I feed them mostly chicken. I give them hunks of
> beef or pork, with
> thier chicken, or turkey, two or three times a week.
> They also get
> liver frozen, as a snack three times a week. And
> also sweetbreads
> twice a week. once a week they get kidney as a
> treat.
> Monell
>
>

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Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Newby raw feeding question
Posted by: "Evie" archie.willow@yahoo.co.uk archie.willow
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:41 am ((PDT))

Hi,

Personally, since it is a temporary measure, I would change to raw, but
still provide the food that is left out at night. (I know others on
here would not agree with that, but it's what I'd do.)

You could gradually reduce the amount of food being left out to phase
it out; rather than stressing her by removing it all at once. I see no
benifit in removing the food totally for now since it will only stress
Mum out and that's not good for her or puppies. At the same time she
can be getting raw meals during the day and reaping the benifits of
those. Indeed, you may find that once she has a taste for the raw, she
eats less and less of the night feeds of kibble (I presume?)

HTH,
Evie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "angelsnoopers64859"
<angelsnoopers64859@...> wrote:

I am switching my dogs (Mollie and Max) over as I type. I am, however,
> reluctant to switch Mollie over right now. She is temporarily in the
> house because she has puppies. When I take her food away for overnight
> (I was going to switch her over) she goes potty anywhere she can
reach.
> We do put her on a leash as we do not have an indoor kennel. Since she
> is nursing she needs food all the time. How can I switch her over
> especially since she resents when there is not food there all the time
> which both my dogs are used to.

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: handling raw meat
Posted by: "kaseyfrankie" Julian1013@aol.com kaseyfrankie
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:48 am ((PDT))

Sophie has a 10x10 kennel that she eats in, that we keep closed so if
there are pieces we don't see to pick up when she's done, we know our
two year old isn't going to get into it. We have found that usually
any little pieces she might leave behind are never there for more than
24 hours, something will smell it and come finish it up at night,
which Sophie learned the hard way one night she when buried her
chicken leg and was extra proud of herself the next morning when she
trotted out to retrieve it, only to find that something beat her to
it :-) Kasey S

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: handling raw meat
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:31 am ((PDT))

Get out your hose.
Lots of people use a plastic shower curtain and train
their dogs to eat on it.
There are more germs at day care or school than there
are from the raw meat your dog eats.

Nathalie

--- tomjennabby <tomjennabby@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Hi all.
> Just wondering if anyone has any advice on how to
> contain the mess.
> I know my pup has the means to handle any bacteria,
> but what about my
> kids, etc. ? My dog makes a huge mess in the
> backyard, and I can't let
> him eat in the house. Any thoughts?
>
> Jenn Kavanagh
>
>

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Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: handling raw meat
Posted by: "Carol Santangelo" carol.santangelo@gmail.com santangelo_carol
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:34 am ((PDT))

I feed outside too. I find that my dogs do a really good job of picking up
any pieces that have fallen on the floor (either out of the bowl or out of
their mouths). However, even though they run around cleaning up after
themselves, I'm sure there is still some liquids on some of the grass. I
would suggest that you just take a hose and hose down the area they ate in.
Also, as far as I know most bacteria can't live without being wet....so
shortly after they finish eating and the juices on the ground dry up the
bacteria will die anyway.

Carol (Bruno and Zoe's mom)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

3d. Re: handling raw meat
Posted by: "elegantkennels" elegantkennels@yahoo.com elegantkennels
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:20 am ((PDT))

You could feed in a crate. I haven't changed to raw yet but I have
given raw as treat and thats where I give it. Then you can just wipe
out the crate... If you don't want to feed inside in a crate just put
the crate outside, and still clean it when you are done.

Renee

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tomjennabby" <tomjennabby@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi all.
> Just wondering if anyone has any advice on how to contain the mess.
> I know my pup has the means to handle any bacteria, but what about my
> kids, etc. ? My dog makes a huge mess in the backyard, and I can't
let
> him eat in the house. Any thoughts?
>
> Jenn Kavanagh
>

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

3e. Re: handling raw meat
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:06 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tomjennabby" <tomjennabby@...>
wrote:
>
> My dog makes a huge mess in the backyard, and I can't let
> him eat in the house. Any thoughts?

Of course you CAN let him eat in the house. The correct wording of
your sentence is that you WON'T let him eat in the house. I have
been on this list and other raw feeding lists for 4 years. There
are litterally thousands upon thousands of list members and and tens
of thousands of posts and I have not seen on one single list, one
single post saying "my child (or grandchild) got sick from my dog's
eating raw." It is a non-issue. A fear of people who don't feed
raw. Most raw feeders don't give it a second thought. The longer
you feed raw, the less thought you give it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:49 am ((PDT))

To be honest, I've never fed chicken liver, but I get
beef or goat liver from the butcher and it works
wonders. You might have to freeze it though, or mix it
with a bit of ground up meat to get your dog to eat
it.
It just depends on the dog.
My dog loves it dehydrated as treats, but won't eat it
on it's own. So I've frozen it to see if she'll take
it that way.
Your best bet is to just feed him the bag of organs.
Or feed it to him with the chicken and wait a few days
and see if that helps, but after 5 or so days of not
pooping, I would imagine that waiting any longer isn't
going help.
Try rabbit liver, I've read taht some dogs really love
rabbit.

Nathalie

--- Eve <loulou_bean@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Nathalie,
>
> We bought him a whole chicken with the bag full of
> organs where everything looks the same. How can I
> tell
> which is the liver?
>
> Eve
>
> --- Nathalie Poulin <poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > Give him a nice chunk of liver, that should help
> get
> > things moving through his system.
> > Just be careful not to give him too much or you
> > might
> > have the opposite effect of constipation.
> >
> > Nathalie
> >

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Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:26 am ((PDT))

"carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
> I'm not sure what they are but as far as I'm concerned they are
pretty
> useless nutritionally. They are basically a sack.
*****
They're muscle.
They pretty much have the same nutritional punch as commercially
processed pig intestines or bleached honeycomb tripe. What makes
gizzards more useful in a raw diet is they generally come stuck into
the chicken and not feeding them is often more time consuming than
feeding them. Acquiring other cleaned and pressed digestive tissue
means actually buying it, intentionally. IMO if I am going to buy a
body part, I'd like it to be as nutrient dense as possible.

I spent a bit of time searching the USDA nutrition database for
gizzards by their lonesome but all the database offers is
general "giblets". For me, "giblets" means everything stuck in the
cavity save the neck but the USDA is not defining its terms so I don't
know what the values represent. So much for spending time in THOSE
weeds.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Raw Vets & Bacteria
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:50 am ((PDT))

I doubt there would be over 9000+ people (on this
list) who feed their dogs raw if ecoli and salmonella
and other bacteria affected them and made them
sick/die. Seriously, if it was such a problem, I don't
think as many of us would be feeding our dogs this
way.
Obviously, (for the most part at least) most of the
owners on this list have beautiful, healthy dogs who
have great immune systems and are the healthiest
they've ever been.
Crazy vets.

Nathalie

--- Cherie Ferebee <oceanbaylabradors@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Hey again,
> I was at my vet today, I asked what he thought
> about raw feeding. He said he doesn't reccomend it
> because of the ecoli, salmonella, and other
> bacterias found in raw food. What are the dangers
> of raw feeding reguarding bacteria? Are there any
> vets in the Sussex County, DE/Salisbury, MD area
> that support raw feeding? Just so I have a local
> vet to talk to. I don't plan on switching vets,
> just would like to have one close by to talk to just
> in case I need something.
>
> Thanks Bunches!
> Cherie
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

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Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: Raw Vets & Bacteria
Posted by: "kaseyfrankie" Julian1013@aol.com kaseyfrankie
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:31 am ((PDT))

Cherie,
you just have to remind yourself that this is the way nature
intended them to eat.. every different species is put here to eat
something different and their bodies are specially designed to digest
it. For all we know.. the bacteria in raw meat that makes us sick,
could have no effect on a canine whatsoever, because it's a part of
the meat that their bodies were made to digest. there are plenty of
plants and berries out there that creatures eat that would make us
extremely sick.. but those animals flourish from it because they are
made to eat it.
Kasey S

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

5c. Re: Raw Vets & Bacteria
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:31 am ((PDT))

I'll bet his office shelves were filled with Science Diet kibble and
canned foods. So exactly what kind of dietary recommendations would
you expect to get from him?

I work with both a holistic veterinarian and a homeopathic vet.
Anybody on this list knows more about raw feeding by an order of
magnitude than either of our doctors. And they don't sell carp. Pamela

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cherie Ferebee
<oceanbaylabradors@...> wrote:
>
> Hey again,
> I was at my vet today, I asked what he thought about raw
feeding. He said he doesn't reccomend it because of the ecoli, s

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Whats that in his poop???
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:31 am ((PDT))

>Then I noticed some weird mucus looking substance covering the poop. it was light-
>lime-green kind of color. What IS this?

Hi.I had seen slimy mucous wrapping the poo 2 days ago too.Mine was whitish mucous,but somebody here told me that the mucous wrapped in poop is the way of dog getting rid of things that did not agree with the dog and it goes away.

It did go away after 2 more pooping after the mucous covered poo.

Before the mucous poo, I gave bit too much sample of mutton marrow from bones (did not have any watery poop after this right away though)and next morning,I gave lamb tongue with raw egg and pork neck.Then, it came watery poop and after this,I fed basic chicken meal and poop got firm up but it was covered with mucous thing.

Never seen that kind of poo and was worried and asked here and it came the reply that I wrote above.So,I think you do not have to worry about.

I have seen a poo dangling from her butt with one string of hair,maybe mine or hers since black colored,and she try to get it off to ground,but I think hair is quite common found in poo and nothing to worry about.

I do not know why your dog got mucous thing other than it is the way to get rid of things that did not agree with your dog.

Maybe saran?

I think more experienced feeders would chime in for cause of mucous.

hope it helps.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (4)
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6b. Re: Whats that in his poop???
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:52 am ((PDT))

Mucous is generally nothing more than a sign of irritation...which most
definitely could be caused by consuming plastic!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "deep_ocean_of_sorrow" <deep_ocean_of_sorrow@yahoo.com>

did the plastic wrapper cause this mucus-looking thing?

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Re: Poo wrapped in mucous
Posted by: "geraldinebutterfield" gbutterflied@comcast.net geraldinebutterfield
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:29 am ((PDT))

Hi Yassy, I've been feeding raw for only a few months so I hope
others add their 2cents. This is what my vet said, and I've found it
to be true with Brandy. I haven't stopped feeding anything. If she
has the mucous it's usually when I add something new. Once her
little body gets used to it, usually the next time, it just goes
away. I haven't seen it in a while now.

This is a great site and everyone is so very helpful. I may have
been scared into going back to cooking for her without all the help.

good luck,
geraldine

> I am giving her basic chicken meal now to recover from watery
poo but,if the poo in mucous meant things did not agree with her;the
lamb is the cause,then I need to cut back the lamb and probably feed
with chicken that she is already well on then?
>
> If the mucous did not mean it is totally not agreeing and no
feed anymore stuff,then,I will try again with the feeding way
modified.
>
> Thank you
>
> yassy
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> The fish are biting.
> Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (17)
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7b. Re: Poo wrapped in mucous
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:02 am ((PDT))

> If she has the mucous it's usually when I add something new. Once her little body gets >used to it, usually the next time, it just goes away.

Hi,Garaldine.Like you said, my dogs mucous went away after 2 more pooping after the mucous wrap poo with her basic chicken meal.So,today,I gave her half chicken half lamb with side of chicken guizzard.

I have not seen her poo yet so,have to wait again.

When she had Lamb Tongue,Pork Neck,and Raw Egg,she had watery poo and with chicken meal her poo got firm up right away with mucous around.

Maybe tongue was too fatty to deal with?Not sure but I tried giving boneless Lamb with chicken today. And see how it goes.

Egg I usually got was Egglands' best brand and white Egg.Supposedly organic Egg.She had raw Egg before with this brand and had no prob so,I assumed she is ok with Egg.

After the Egg all out,I got Egglands Best Cage Free Organic Egg and it is Brown Egg and I assumed she is ok with the egg of this package. it is her first time to have Raw Egg with this cage free Egg. Could it be the reason for watery poo too?I did not think it was though because she ate raw Egg before with this brand and had no problems.

I know that egg shell colors are just the difference between the breeed of chicken but dogs react differently to such breed difference egg or cage free egg or not cage free egg even though the brand are same?

I was curious.

She is fed raw 10th week now and she loves it and she run around me circle like she herd me(corgi;herding breed) when I try placing the shower curtain on kitchen floor and as it touches the floor,she jump on and sit. She knows that sitting bring the meal sooner.

Really the people on this list are real helpful and, I appreciate all.

Thanks everyone

yassy

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Messages in this topic (17)
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8.1. Re: Nature's Variety
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:51 am ((PDT))

Regardless, you wouldn't have to look too far back to hear the list's
opinion of Natures Variety! It's full of inappropriate ingredients, not to
mention ground and expensive!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "carnesbill" <carnesw@bellsouth.net>

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> There was a long thread on it
> just a week or so ago about it. Check back and I'm sure you
> can find
> the posts.

O O O P S ! ! ! Sorry, that thread was on another list. :) :) :)

Messages in this topic (31)
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9a. Re: cat will only eat pork. period :( THANKS LINDSAY
Posted by: "alliecaracleo" alliecaracleo@yahoo.com alliecaracleo
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:56 am ((PDT))

GOOD IDEAS WITH THE POKE IN A BAG FOR THE FLAVOR. AND I WILL TRY
CUTTING A LITTLE ETC. SHE IS DOWN TO EATING ONCE A DAY NOW. SATISFIED,
I SUPPOSE. SHE EATS ONLY 2OZ DAILY(2 MEALS) LOST WEIGHT WHICH IS GOOD
CUZ SHE NEEDED TO LOSE ABOUT 2 1/2 PDS. NOT LIKE HER GRANNY HERE !!!

HAVE A GREAT WEEKDEND EVERYONE
DENISE
(SORRY BOUT CAPITALS) CANT SEE WELL TODAY EVEN WITH GLASSES :(

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Dorian"
<iamentropygirl@...> wrote:
>
> My cat TK did the same thing after we bought her pork tenderloin
> (on sale 90% off due to best before date : )
>
> she refused all other food I started putting just a bit of pork pieces
> mixed in with what I wanted her to eat, that way if she wanted to dig
> out the pork she had to get some of the "residue" of the other meats
> on her. I also stored other meat/bones in a baggie with pork so it
> would smell a little "piggy"
>
> even if your cat only eats the pork at least she is getting something,
> I prefered to feed just pork rather than go back to canned, and TK is
> back to eating mostly whatever we give her
>
> we also have a dog, so luckily in our house nothing gets wasted : )
>
>
> Lindsay
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Re: Little odgs
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:57 am ((PDT))

Hi Geraldine,

Yes, I do offer him chicken thighs/bone in too.

If I am feeding both meals for the day of chicken I just find it
easier to remove the meat from the thigh, as two big chunks of bone
per day is too much bone in his diet and I find 1 leg/bone and 1
thigh/no bone gives him the 4 oz of meat he needs per day....

I was just using that as an example of feeding for the day.

Mine eats slabs of beef, buffalo, elk, rabbit, offal and anything
that walks, runs or
hops and is available for feeding, lol.........

Just took him in for his first tooth cleaning (never had a big
problem with plack)and found a bad tooth...only 1 & he's 9 yrs..

It surprised the vet and me too.He always checks his mouth when
we go in for any other problem, so gums, etc always looked good.

I had noticed he was only chewing on one side and figured something
was up, showed no other symptoms

After a rough couple of days here he's on the mend.....so back to
chewing soon!

Carol, Charkee & Maggie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "geraldinebutterfield"
<gbutterflied@...> wrote:
>
> >Hi Carol,
>
> Do you ever feed the thigh with the bone?
>
> geraldine

Messages in this topic (6)
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11a. Re: changing over to raw for the first time
Posted by: "kevinvictorbutton" kevinvictorbutton@yahoo.co.uk kevinvictorbutton
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:46 am ((PDT))

hi kelly
thanks for your reply.
i took the plunge, and have given up kibble. our local freezer shop
had a special offer on whole chicken legs, so have started juno on
them. am going to invest in a small chest freezer tomorrow, and go and
see my good local butcher (i used to teach him, and he remembers his
old teacher!)
since she had the inconclusive blood test i've been feeding her raw
pancreas, and i think she is gradually putting on weight. i read on
one of the raw feeding sites (there are so many!) that raw meat is
full of enzymes, so hopefully that and the pancreas will do the trick.
do you still have to feed pancreas , or do things right themselves?
i'm going to stick with chicken for a few days more before trying to
introduce anything else, and just take things gradually.
thanks again, Linda

Messages in this topic (8)
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12. supplement w/digestive enzymes?
Posted by: "Monica" mommyof2gals@comcast.net mommyof2gals
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:13 am ((PDT))

My dog is 4yrs old and has been rawfed since he was 6mths old.

Last April he was violently ill - throwing up, loose stools, couldn't
even keep water down. Went to the vet, did the xrays, blood work etc.
couldn't find anything wrong. They rehydrated him, gave him some meds
to stop the vomitting and after a few days he was much better.

Here's the thing. He still vomits dinner several nights a week. Some
days he is right as rain, others he seems ill (listless, whiney,
upset tummy). The vet can't find anything wrong with him but I am
terrified that he is really sick.

She suggested either switching to Evo for a while (she does support
the rawfeeding but is wondering if since his illness he needs easy to
digest food - meat without bone gives him the runs) and/or to add
digestive enzymes to see if that helps. What do you all think?

Do you have any ideas what could be wrong with him? Its really scary
when the vet even throws up her hands in confusion.

thanks
Monica and Loki

Messages in this topic (1)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11807

There are 2 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
From: Lyse Garant

2a. handling raw meat
From: tomjennabby

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
Posted by: "Lyse Garant" lyse_garant@yahoo.com lyse_garant
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:08 am ((PDT))

gizzards, def muscle if you ask me, I just bought a whole package of them and I'm going to slice them and use them to train!
Lyse G N

carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Lyse Garant <lyse_garant@...> wrote:
>
> and, correct me if i am wrong gizzards are muscle meat?
>
I'm not sure what they are but as far as I'm concerned they are pretty
useless nutritionally. They are basically a sack.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Lyse

---------------------------------
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in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

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Messages in this topic (10)
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2a. handling raw meat
Posted by: "tomjennabby" tomjennabby@yahoo.ca tomjennabby
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:08 am ((PDT))

Hi all.
Just wondering if anyone has any advice on how to contain the mess.
I know my pup has the means to handle any bacteria, but what about my
kids, etc. ? My dog makes a huge mess in the backyard, and I can't let
him eat in the house. Any thoughts?

Jenn Kavanagh

Messages in this topic (7)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11806

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Bone- Karen and more info
From: Hodgepodge Stuff

2a. Re: Starved Stray Food Suggestions
From: pet.wellness
2b. Re: Starved Stray Food Suggestions
From: John and Sonya Yoder

3a. Re: stinky gaaaas
From: pet.wellness
3b. Re: stinky gaaaas
From: Nathalie Poulin
3c. Re: stinky gaaaas
From: Lyse Garant

4a. Re: nose trouble
From: pet.wellness
4b. Re: nose trouble
From: Sandee Lee
4c. Re: nose trouble
From: kaseyfrankie
4d. Re: nose trouble
From: Lyse Garant

5a. Re: changing over to raw for the first time
From: GSRBC

6a. Re: Not going to the bathroom.
From: Nathalie Poulin
6b. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
From: Eve
6c. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
From: Giselle
6d. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
From: carnesbill
6e. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
From: Lyse Garant
6f. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
From: carnesbill

7a. Raw Vets & Bacteria
From: Cherie Ferebee
7b. Re: Raw Vets & Bacteria
From: carnesbill
7c. Re: Raw Vets & Bacteria
From: ginny wilken

8.1. Nature's Variety
From: Cherie Ferebee
8.2. Re: Nature's Variety
From: carnesbill
8.3. Re: Nature's Variety
From: carnesbill

9a. Whats that in his poop???
From: deep_ocean_of_sorrow
9b. Re: Whats that in his poop???
From: carnesbill

Messages
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1a. Re: Bone- Karen and more info
Posted by: "Hodgepodge Stuff" ads@hodgepodgestuff.com candlelady_lisa
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:42 pm ((PDT))

Hi Karen,

She is a mixed breed and I couldn't even tell you what she might have
in her. She has yellow lab color, but she is a petite dog. She has a
few of the teeth up front but that is about it. The vet said she was
about 9 yrs old. I do have other issues with her that I am trying to
help her with Homeopathically. She was eating canned food last year
and partially the beginning of this year, but I have had her on raw
since. Such a long story with her, but she has urine retention issues
now that I have been trying to help, but I sometimes wonder by not
getting the bone, it isn't helping.... Her digestion hasn't been so
swell of late either, I have to be sure she can digest before pounding
bone I guess. I have thought of the egg shell someone else mentioned,
but my grinder broke recently and as of late our funds are limited even
for that... It has been a crazy few months for us... I am trying
though. I appreciate the info though and I will pound bone I think
once I am sure she is digesting right. FYI, I told my husband all I
needed to do was pound bones, and he was like "didn't I already mention
that..." I guess I just thought they should be ground up fine... I
think it has been a blonde moment with me because my other dog just
bites her bones enough to get it down her throat... :)

Thanks so much you and everyone!

Lisa

On Jul 14, 2007, at 12:59 PM, Karen Swanay wrote:

> You can use a meat tenderiser (the mallet not the powder) or a heavy
> frying
> pan and bash chicken wings, necks and backs into basically nothing
> that
> needs teeth to chew. Put them in a couple plastic bags and just whap
> them.
> She won't need ground bone, just something small enough she can
> swallow.
> Does she have no teeth at all? What breed? How old?
>
> Karen
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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2a. Re: Starved Stray Food Suggestions
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:27 pm ((PDT))

Alicia, I would not say you are only "a measly" anything but an astute
observer. I could not agree more about the veterinarian's vaccine
protocol. Given that the rabies vaccine will do no good if the kitty
has already been exposed to rabies and will do substantially more harm
if she is ill, it was unnecessary and unethical. Even the
manufacturer's label says not to administer to sick animals. Ash could
not know this and so could not control it. Pamela

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "aliinfl" <aliinfl3@...> wrote:
>
> Ash,I am sorry you feel attacked but, in retrospect, what would you
> expect on a RAW fed board? ... I am only a measly lurker here, but
over

Messages in this topic (12)
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2b. Re: Starved Stray Food Suggestions
Posted by: "John and Sonya Yoder" johnsonya@suddenlink.net johnsonya75701
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:07 pm ((PDT))

I have been a lurker and have been feeding my boxer Roo raw for about a
month now. She got very ill after her last set a vacs from the old vet and
I found the only holistic vet in my small town.I started cooking for her
about the time of the dog food scare, and was supplimenting her diet with
several "good" suppliments. The holistic vet told me not to cook her food
to long or I would ruin the content. He personally feeds his dogs Natures
Variety. I can't buy that locally either, and can't afford to have her food
shipped in so I started resurching raw diets. I have been feedinbg her raw
for about a month and she is doing fantasic. She was doing better with the
holistic vets care, but even better now that I am no longer cooking for her
and feeding her an appripriate diet. I don't know how closly related cats
and dogs are, but for my money I'd feed raw everytime.
Sonya
mother of ROO BEAR
3 year old Boxer

Messages in this topic (12)
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3a. Re: stinky gaaaas
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:27 pm ((PDT))

My poodle has never passed gas after eating raw food. How long have
you been feeding raw? Are the other eructations, i.e, burps regular or
is this something new? Pamela

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "monell2000" <monell2000@...> wrote:
>
> My standard poodles have very stinky gas.Does anyone else have this
> problem on the raw?? It doesn't seem to matter which meat they eat. I

Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Re: stinky gaaaas
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:02 pm ((PDT))

What EXACTLY are you feeding them?

Nathalie

--- monell2000 <monell2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

> My standard poodles have very stinky gas.Does anyone
> else have this
> problem on the raw?? It doesn't seem to matter which
> meat they eat. I
> have a different smell than on K****e, but still
> stinky.
> Last night my female burped, and it had the same
> smell as thier gas.
> Is this normal??
>
> Monell
>
>

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Messages in this topic (5)
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3c. Re: stinky gaaaas
Posted by: "Lyse Garant" lyse_garant@yahoo.com lyse_garant
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:37 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM YOUR MESSAGES!***

gosh almighty, I have to watch guinness so so closely or he will eat his own doot, and then his BREATH stinks like road kill, and his next doot smells like recycled doot, NASTY. Best thing to do is watch watch watch, catch, snatch, and feed!
xoxo love you and god bless and good luck...

Nathalie Poulin <poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca> wrote:
What EXACTLY are you feeding them?

Nathalie

--- monell2000 <monell2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/

Lyse

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: nose trouble
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:28 pm ((PDT))

My dog used to bury his bones too. Now that we have no back yard and
he only walks on a leash, he wanders the house with a bone in his
mouth, whining, because he can't find a good place to stash it. It's
just so much responsibility.

My only suggestion is to distract him by playing ball or something
else he likes and take the bone away. You can give it back for a short
time the next day. Pamela

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tamarabajema" <tamarabajema@...>
wrote:
>
> my little dog likes to bury his bones, which is good. But he buries
> them, digs them up and buries them again. He is doing it so often he is
> losing the hair on the bridge of his nose, and his nose itself isn't

Messages in this topic (8)
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4b. Re: nose trouble
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:50 pm ((PDT))

If it is covered with meat, you could give it back.

I'm wondering why he doesn't eat it all...is it too large for him? If
that's the case and there is still lots of meat, I would pick it up and put
it away for another meal. If it's bare bone, toss it.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "tamarabajema" <tamarabajema@yahoo.ca>
>
I give him chick drumstick, he eats off the ends and then buries the
middle. The next day he runs outside, digs it up and chews on it some
more. I thought thats what dogs do, bury their bones and then dig them
up later when they are hungry again and the bone is easier to chew on.
Your saying i should take it away from him when he goes to bury it, and
give it him the next day?

Messages in this topic (8)
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4c. Re: nose trouble
Posted by: "kaseyfrankie" Julian1013@aol.com kaseyfrankie
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:12 pm ((PDT))

Sophie likes to eat her organs and gizzards and then bury the big
chicken leg and go eat it a few hours later, I can't imagine why she
would want to marinade it in dirt all afternoon but, she does. Today I
made her wait a little bit longer for her food (she usually eats at
about 10 am and today I made her wait until about 2) and she ate
everything right up.
Kasey S.

Messages in this topic (8)
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4d. Re: nose trouble
Posted by: "Lyse Garant" lyse_garant@yahoo.com lyse_garant
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:11 pm ((PDT))

just not hungry enuff! good for you, keep trying. I am literally at my ropes end with my pup eating his own feces. I have now resorted to tying him to me when he's loose in the apartment!.
Because the more crap he eats, the more he craps.
At least with the raw diet I have more of a chance of winning this battle.
Not for me mind ya, I just hate to see his cute self wasting all that energy reprocessing what has already been pinched by the A hole!

"pet.wellness" <pet.wellness@yahoo.com> wrote:
My dog used to bury his bones too. Now that we have no back yard and
he only walks on a leash, he wanders the house with a bone in his
mouth, whining, because he can't find a good place to stash it. It's
just so much responsibility.

My only suggestion is to distract him by playing ball or something
else he likes and take the bone away. You can give it back for a short
time the next day. Pamela

Lyse

---------------------------------
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Check out fun summer activities for kids.

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Messages in this topic (8)
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5a. Re: changing over to raw for the first time
Posted by: "GSRBC" GSDRescue@shaw.ca gsdrescuebc
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:36 pm ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:TRIM YOUR MAILS!! THIS ONE WAS TRIMMED FOR YOU!

H Linda,

I just wanted to offer you some encouragement and let you know what
has worked for us.
EPI is yes, becoming more and more rampant in the GSD lines. A while
ago we took in a dog with severe EPI.
She was a mere 41lbs when she came to us. We did a lot of research
and took her to a holistic vet, as we just couldn't find a vet that
would agree with what we were feeding (raw).
The holistic vet told us to add pork pancreas to her diet. We did and
Daisy started to get better!
She was a short coated white girl, so really did look horrible!
She could not eat everything. Liver, heart and very rich meats like
pork and lamb set off days of diarrhea. But we finally found our way,
and with adding the pork pancreas, I am happy to say that today,
Daisy is a whopping 79lbs, which is her ideal weight. The pork
pancreas really was a life saver for her.

We have since had two other GSDs come through our care with EPI, and
while not as severe, they did very well on the raw diet, with the
pancreas.

Good luck!

Kelly
German Shepherd Rescue of BC
www.gsrbc.com

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kevinvictorbutton"
<kevinvictorbutton@...> wrote:
>
> hi everyone, i'm new here so haven't found my way round the site
> properly yet.

Messages in this topic (7)
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6a. Re: Not going to the bathroom.
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:01 pm ((PDT))

Give him a nice chunk of liver, that should help get
things moving through his system.
Just be careful not to give him too much or you might
have the opposite effect of constipation.

Nathalie

--- Eve <loulou_bean@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Bill,
>
> He definitely didn't go to the bathroom. I thought
> it
> was "normal" to go regularly, and 5 days seems
> pretty
> excessive to not. I am afraid he has some sort of
> blockage. He did chew up some bone the other day.
>
> We just took him for a walk and he paced for a while
> as if he was about to go and nothing wound up
> happening.
>
> Also, the last couple of times we we took him for a
> walk he took more interest in chasing the pigeons
> than
> he did in walking. What could this be?
>
> Eve
> --- carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Eve
> > <loulou_bean@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > > Our pekingese has now been on all raw diet
> > (chicken)
> > > since last Monday, and he hasn't gone to the
> > bathroom
> > > yet.
> >
> > How is the dog acting and how is he feeling? If
> he
> > has normal energy
> > and seems to be happy and feeling good, I wouldn't
> > worry. Are you
> > absolutely sure that he hasn't pooped? With a dog
> > that size a raw
> > chicken poop will be very very very small.
> >
> > Bill Carnes
> > http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
> >
> > Feeding Raw since October 2002
> >
> > "Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural
> > outcomes"
> > Dr. Tom Lonsdale
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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> in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.
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Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
Posted by: "Eve" loulou_bean@yahoo.com loulou_bean
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:42 pm ((PDT))

Nathalie,

We bought him a whole chicken with the bag full of
organs where everything looks the same. How can I tell
which is the liver?

Eve

--- Nathalie Poulin <poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Give him a nice chunk of liver, that should help get
> things moving through his system.
> Just be careful not to give him too much or you
> might
> have the opposite effect of constipation.
>
> Nathalie
>
> --- Eve <loulou_bean@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Bill,
> >
> > He definitely didn't go to the bathroom. I thought
> > it
> > was "normal" to go regularly, and 5 days seems
> > pretty
> > excessive to not. I am afraid he has some sort of
> > blockage. He did chew up some bone the other day.
> >
> > We just took him for a walk and he paced for a
> while
> > as if he was about to go and nothing wound up
> > happening.
> >
> > Also, the last couple of times we we took him for
> a
> > walk he took more interest in chasing the pigeons
> > than
> > he did in walking. What could this be?
> >
> > Eve
> > --- carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> > > --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Eve
> > > <loulou_bean@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > > Our pekingese has now been on all raw diet
> > > (chicken)
> > > > since last Monday, and he hasn't gone to the
> > > bathroom
> > > > yet.
> > >
> > > How is the dog acting and how is he feeling? If
> > he
> > > has normal energy
> > > and seems to be happy and feeling good, I
> wouldn't
> > > worry. Are you
> > > absolutely sure that he hasn't pooped? With a
> dog
> > > that size a raw
> > > chicken poop will be very very very small.
> > >
> > > Bill Carnes
> > > http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
> > >
> > > Feeding Raw since October 2002
> > >
> > > "Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural
> > > outcomes"
> > > Dr. Tom Lonsdale
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the
> Internet
> > in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.
> > http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
> >
>
>
>
> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard
> is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new
> Yahoo! Mail at
> http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca
>
>

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Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:19 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Eve!
Liver is the blobby, squidgy one. The gizzards are like 2 semi hard
half balls with gristle holding them together and the heart will be
about the size of the first joint on your thumb and conical.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> We bought him a whole chicken with the bag full of
> organs where everything looks the same. How can I tell
> which is the liver?
>
> Eve

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

6d. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:15 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Eve <loulou_bean@...> wrote:
>

You got some good advice. I think liver will do the trick. The dog
wanting to chase the pigeons is a good thing.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

6e. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
Posted by: "Lyse Garant" lyse_garant@yahoo.com lyse_garant
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:36 pm ((PDT))

and, correct me if i am wrong gizzards are muscle meat?

Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote: Hi, Eve!
Liver is the blobby, squidgy one. The gizzards are like 2 semi hard
half balls with gristle holding them together and the heart will be
about the size of the first joint on your thumb and conical.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> We bought him a whole chicken with the bag full of
> organs where everything looks the same. How can I tell
> which is the liver?
>
> Eve

Lyse

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

6f. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:11 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Lyse Garant <lyse_garant@...> wrote:
>
> and, correct me if i am wrong gizzards are muscle meat?
>
I'm not sure what they are but as far as I'm concerned they are pretty
useless nutritionally. They are basically a sack.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Raw Vets & Bacteria
Posted by: "Cherie Ferebee" oceanbaylabradors@yahoo.com oceanbaylabradors
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:34 pm ((PDT))

Hey again,
I was at my vet today, I asked what he thought about raw feeding. He said he doesn't reccomend it because of the ecoli, salmonella, and other bacterias found in raw food. What are the dangers of raw feeding reguarding bacteria? Are there any vets in the Sussex County, DE/Salisbury, MD area that support raw feeding? Just so I have a local vet to talk to. I don't plan on switching vets, just would like to have one close by to talk to just in case I need something.

Thanks Bunches!
Cherie

____________________________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Raw Vets & Bacteria
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:33 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cherie Ferebee
<oceanbaylabradors@...> wrote:
>
> What are the dangers of raw feeding reguarding bacteria?

There is very little danger from bacteria and raw food. Dogs have
very acidic stomach juices that will kill most any bacteria that it
comes in contact with. Think of it like this. A wolf in the wild
may happen upon a deer that died of something several days ago and
is smelling pretty strong. What do you think he will do? Eat it of
course. :)

My dearly departed Skylar(Golden) loved to eat road kill squirrels.
Not that I fed them to her but if she could spot one and get to it
before I could stop her, it was in her mouth and she was chomping on
it. She would swallow them because there was no way I could get
those nasty things out of her mouth. Many had been laying in the
hot summer Georgia sun for days if not a week or more and were real
foul. She never had an adverse effect from this. Not once in about
4 times she was lucky enough to get one. No vomiting, no diarrhea,
no sickness at all. She would eat her next meal normally.
Sooooooooo bacteria is no problem. :) :) :)

> Are there any vets in the Sussex County, DE/Salisbury, MD
> area that support raw feeding?

I don't have a clue but I doubt it. I don't know but 3 vets in the
world that I would trust with questions about my dog's diet.

> Just so I have a local vet to talk to.

Just hang around here for awhile. You will soon gain enough
confidence in your own knowledge that you won't feel the need to ask
a vet questions about diet or nutrition because soon, you won't be
able to find a vet who knows more than you do about those two
subjects.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: Raw Vets & Bacteria
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:46 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 14, 2007, at 8:49 PM, Cherie Ferebee wrote:

> Hey again,
> I was at my vet today, I asked what he thought about raw
> feeding. He said he doesn't reccomend it because of the ecoli,
> salmonella, and other bacterias found in raw food. What are the
> dangers of raw feeding reguarding bacteria? Are there any vets in
> the Sussex County, DE/Salisbury, MD area that support raw feeding?
> Just so I have a local vet to talk to. I don't plan on switching
> vets, just would like to have one close by to talk to just in case
> I need something.
>
> Thanks Bunches!
> Cherie

There are more bacteria in the environment, and in the poop of kibble-
fed dogs, than in your dog's system ever. A properly functioning
digestive tract has acid strong enough to kill any pathogens - and,
if you feed raw, it's functioning properly:)

Tell your vet to review his bacteriology texts. There are no bacteria
in muscle or organ meat, and whatever gets on the meat's outside is
no worse than the ground we walk on, the butts they sniff, and the
questionable items they snarf up. There are more on my washcloth than
in my dog's mouth, for sure.

Silly vet....

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8.1. Nature's Variety
Posted by: "Cherie Ferebee" oceanbaylabradors@yahoo.com oceanbaylabradors
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:34 pm ((PDT))

I forgot to mention that I found a company at my local pet supply place that makes raw dog food. It has ground bones in it. It is Nature's Variety. Any opinions? I bought a chub of it to try with my shih tzu. She is not that sure about it. It is pretty pricey though. $5.95 for a 2lb chub. I just wanted to try to see if she would eat it because she doesn't eat anything. She doesn't like dog food, dog treats, etc. She likes cheese and all natural turkey dogs (as treats when training). She wants cat food, but is not allow to have it. She sniffed the raw Lamb, but my sister's daschund (spelling?) kept sniffing it, and then our fox hound ate it. She loved it! Any ideas on getting my shih tzu to eat raw?

Thanks Again!
Cherie

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Messages in this topic (30)
________________________________________________________________________

8.2. Re: Nature's Variety
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:33 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cherie Ferebee
<oceanbaylabradors@...> wrote:
>
> It is Nature's Variety. Any opinions?

No, it's not good for many reasons. There was a long thread on it
just a week or so ago about it. Check back and I'm sure you can find
the posts.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (30)
________________________________________________________________________

8.3. Re: Nature's Variety
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:26 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> There was a long thread on it
> just a week or so ago about it. Check back and I'm sure you
> can find
> the posts.

O O O P S ! ! ! Sorry, that thread was on another list. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (30)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Whats that in his poop???
Posted by: "deep_ocean_of_sorrow" deep_ocean_of_sorrow@yahoo.com deep_ocean_of_sorrow
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:35 pm ((PDT))

okay, so today for my Lakkun's walk, he pooped like usual and I scooped
it up with a plastic bag.

Then I noticed some weird mucus looking substance covering maybe about
1/2 or maybe less of the poop. it looked exactly like mucus(like, the
one from your nose). it was light-lime-green kind of color and the touch
of it (through my plastic bag) felt like mucus too. What IS this?

and well, I thought there might be some worms(!!) in it or something, so
I quickly went home and did some detective work(with extra layers of
gloves, mind you). I didn't see any worms, but I did find a piece of
plastic wrapper (the kinds you use after your dinner...)and some hair(i
think it was dog hair..) in his poop. other than that, it looked normal
... well, all that and besides the mucus looking thing.

did the plastic wrapper cause this mucus-looking thing? would it have
been his breakfast? My mom fed Lakkun's breakfast cause I didn't wake
up...She probably forgot to take it out and my dog chewed on it or
something. His breakfast was 2 small pieces of chicken leg and a sliced
beef rib. he's been fed this before and none of this has ever
happened...

Please HELP!

¢¾Kate

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: Whats that in his poop???
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:34 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "deep_ocean_of_sorrow"
<deep_ocean_of_sorrow@...> wrote:
>
> Then I noticed some weird mucus looking substance covering
> maybe about
> 1/2 or maybe less of the poop.

It is mucus and it happens from time to time. I see it pretty
regularly when I happen to check my dog's poop which I don't do real
often anymore. My guess is that its a natural lubricant to help the
stool pass through the intestine. It MAY be secretion from anal
glands. Either way, to me its just a natural occuring event and I
don't think anything about it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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