Feed Pets Raw Food: Oct 19, 2007

Friday, October 19, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12182

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
From: Tina Berry
1b. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
From: Barb
1c. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
From: Finster Boy
1d. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
From: Finster Boy
1e. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
From: Casey Post

2a. Salmon
From: Renate
2b. Re: Salmon
From: Sandee Lee
2c. Re: Salmon
From: Renate
2d. Re: Salmon
From: Laura Atkinson
2e. Re: Salmon
From: Sandee Lee
2f. Re: Salmon
From: T Smith
2g. Re: Salmon
From: Renate
2h. Re: Salmon
From: mousegirls

3a. Question about bad nails and thyroid
From: Tracy
3b. Re: Question about bad nails and thyroid
From: Casey Post

4a. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
From: Giselle
4b. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
From: sonitam

5a. Re: Russell
From: Giselle

6a. Re: Little-dog sized bones
From: Ashley Myers

7a. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: Loraine Jesse
7b. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: Pepper

8.1. liver
From: hanson_jenlynn

9.1. Re: Eggs
From: Pi

10. help!!! we're pregnant and not sure how/what to feed
From: nikkisevy@aol.com

11a. Re: another egg question
From: costrowski75

Messages
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1a. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

"Does anyone else go toe to toe with the vets about the raw diet?"

I fortunately have access to a raw diet, semi-holistic vet in my area. But
when I did have a non-raw promoting vet(s) I told them not to waste their
breath talking to me about how I should not feed my dog raw. Now, we were
not at the vet for any ailments (never have been, gee, must be the diet)
this was just a check up appt.

But if I were to have an issue with my dogs that needed vets attention, I'd
tell them they had better find something else as the cause other than my raw
diet or they are wasting my time.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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1b. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
Posted by: "Barb" behaven1@telus.net behavensnikko
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

Raw is the only natural way a dog"carnivore" should eat.Any other way
is not natural.Plain & Simple!
Your Vet is not even worth argueing with!I wouldn't waste my energy
on him!
Cheers/Barb
Behaven Shelties
Raw fed/Vaccine free X 23+ years
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Finster Boy" <finster_boy1@...>
wrote:
>
> I posted about my yorkie having trouble w/ anal gland infection. I
took
> him to the vet today.
can't
>
>> This is my forth vet. None in my area are open to raw.
> Does anyone else go toe to toe with the vets about the raw diet?
,
> Patricia
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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1c. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
Posted by: "Finster Boy" finster_boy1@yahoo.com finster_boy1
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:25 pm ((PDT))

Thanx Casey- You're so right when you wrote: "I need them to see the
animal, not the diet."
On those rare occasions when you have to see a vet in an emergency,
and the emergency is a gastro-intestinal issue,what do you say when the
vet asks, "What have you been feeding him?"

Thanx for the support!

Patricia

Messages in this topic (7)
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1d. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
Posted by: "Finster Boy" finster_boy1@yahoo.com finster_boy1
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:25 pm ((PDT))

Barb- I got to start shopping around for a vet that's on board. Any
suggestions on how to find one? Here in NJ they won't touch a NON-
vaccinated animal...(I stopped vaccinating 3 yrs ago) this one today
was ok with that, too bad he turned into such a flake with the raw diet
thang!
Thanx,
Patricia

Messages in this topic (7)
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1e. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:36 pm ((PDT))

> On those rare occasions when you have to see a vet in an emergency,
> and the emergency is a gastro-intestinal issue,what do you say when the
> vet asks, "What have you been feeding him?"

Unless there's some reason to think that the diet is the cause, I lie. I'll
name some upper grade brand of dog food that's going to be considered
innocuous to the vet's mind so we can get on with really diagnosing the
issue.

The one time an emergency vet and I clashed over diet was when I was
dogsitting for my neighbor. Shortly after eating a game hen, the dog then
ate a squeaky toy (the dog had a history of eating clothing...I should have
been more careful!). So off to the evet to get him to vomit up the toy
before it becomes an issue...and up came the game hen, too.

The emergency vet was horrified. "Did you know that this dog ate RAW
CHICKEN?!"

"Oh, yes, of course. That was his meal. Not to worry. There's the toy!
Well done!", says I pleased to see the squeaky, again.

"The TOY doesn't concern me. You intentionally FED this dog RAW CHICKEN?
With BONES?" (she's turning red)

"Yes." (calm, but slightly fascinated by the vet's reaction)

"This is ... what were you... how could you do that!?!" (at this point,
she's spluttering and obviously very upset)

"It's what he eats. Honestly, it's fine. He's been on raw since..."

"This is the most irresponsible thing I've seen in a very long time. And
let me tell you that I've seen some very..."

"Wait." I'm looking for clarification now because this reaction seems a bit
over the top. So I speak slowly and carefully, "You're more upset about the
raw chicken, which will digest, than the toy which won't digest and possibly
cause a blockage?"

"YES, I am!"

"Ah. Then we have nothing more to discuss. Thank you."

The vet thought that I was a dog abusing nutjob and I thought that she was
irrational. Nothing I could do about it but pay my bill and leave, shaking
my head.

Casey

Messages in this topic (7)
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2a. Salmon
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

My grocery store has a sale this week on whole pacific salmon at 99cents a
pound. I keep reading about the need to freeze it first. I can do that,
but should I just skip the whole thing? I'm in Canada and that price per
pound is good for anything meat-wise. If I should go ahead and get it, how
long does it need freezing for?

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (22)
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2b. Re: Salmon
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:36 pm ((PDT))

Renate,

Commercial salmon generally has already been frozen. If you are concerned,
throw it in the freezer for a week or two. For .99/lb, I'd jump at the
chance! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Renate" <renate.tideswell@gmail.com>

> My grocery store has a sale this week on whole pacific salmon at 99cents a
> pound. I keep reading about the need to freeze it first. I can do that,
> but should I just skip the whole thing? I'm in Canada and that price per
> pound is good for anything meat-wise. If I should go ahead and get it,
how
> long does it need freezing for?

Messages in this topic (22)
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2c. Re: Salmon
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:48 pm ((PDT))

OK, great. A couple of weeks is good. They say it's whole salmon but
according to the pictures, there is no head. Do whole salmon swim around
with no heads? LOL
Renate

On 10/19/07, Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote:
>
> Renate,
>
> Commercial salmon generally has already been frozen. If you are concerned,
> throw it in the freezer for a week or two. For .99/lb, I'd jump at the
> chance! :)
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "Renate" <renate.tideswell@gmail.com <renate.tideswell%40gmail.com>>
>
> > My grocery store has a sale this week on whole pacific salmon at 99cents
> a
> > pound. I keep reading about the need to freeze it first. I can do that,
> > but should I just skip the whole thing? I'm in Canada and that price per
> > pound is good for anything meat-wise. If I should go ahead and get it,
> how
> > long does it need freezing for?
>
>
>

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (22)
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2d. Re: Salmon
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:57 pm ((PDT))

Dagnabit. Didn't we used to have a rule about putting an FDA on some
of these posts? (that's a Food & Drink Alert for you newbies!). I've
got to go clean my keyboard again!

On 10/19/07, Renate <renate.tideswell@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, great. A couple of weeks is good. They say it's whole salmon but
> according to the pictures, there is no head. Do whole salmon swim around
> with no heads? LOL
> Renate
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.

Messages in this topic (22)
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2e. Re: Salmon
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:48 pm ((PDT))

Evidently so!! Maybe just in your area! :))

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Renate" <renate.tideswell@gmail.com>

> OK, great. A couple of weeks is good. They say it's whole salmon but
> according to the pictures, there is no head. Do whole salmon swim around
> with no heads? LOL
> Renate

Messages in this topic (22)
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2f. Re: Salmon
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:03 pm ((PDT))

Are you telling me that Canadian Salmon have been bred without heads???
hmmm... how do they say eh? eh?????
Trina
Damned close to Canada & grew up with Canadians/British/Engwish, I may as
well be one

On 10/19/07, Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote:
>
> Evidently so!! Maybe just in your area! :))
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (22)
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2g. Re: Salmon
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:25 pm ((PDT))

eh, eh, headless, come home, come home......

On 10/19/07, T Smith <coldbeach@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Are you telling me that Canadian Salmon have been bred without heads???
> hmmm... how do they say eh? eh?????
> Trina
> Damned close to Canada & grew up with Canadians/British/Engwish, I may as
> well be one
>
> On 10/19/07, Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com <rlee%40plix.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Evidently so!! Maybe just in your area! :))
> >
> > Sandee & the Dane Gang
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (22)
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2h. Re: Salmon
Posted by: "mousegirls" mousegirls@gmail.com ladysown
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:58 pm ((PDT))

yes, get it. for that price...almost cheaper than catching your own.

Three weeks in a good solid freezer should take care of bugs. :)

annette
http://ladysown.blogspot.com/
http://agilitynut.wordpress.com/

"What a man is alone on his knees before God, that he is, and no more".-Robert Murray M'Cheyne
"I believe that prayer is the measure of the man, spiritually, in a way that nothing else is, so that how we pray is as important a question as we can ever face"- J.I. Packer

Messages in this topic (22)
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3a. Question about bad nails and thyroid
Posted by: "Tracy" thibodeaux_tracy@msn.com itstracyt
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

I have just begun raw feeding my Lab 3 weeks today. Everything is
going very well with him (we have only been on chicken with a bit of
turkey starting just this week). I recently told my mother about this
way of feeding. I told her of everything I have read on this board as
well as many other sites that may help her dog whom has had numerous
probelms; thyroid, toe nail fungus (painful to him), and ear
infections. I know that a healthy way of eating can help whit the ear
infection problem but can it help with the others. The poor dog is
only 6 years ond and can hardly walk because of his hurting, cracked,
splitting nails. The vet has put him on meds which i think are a
waste of time, since they do not seem to be doing the job, but I want
to know if anyone has any insite on this or the thyroid problem?

Thanks for any input!!
Tracy

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Question about bad nails and thyroid
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:21 pm ((PDT))

>I know that a healthy way of eating can help whit the ear
> infection problem but can it help with the others. The poor dog is
> only 6 years ond and can hardly walk because of his hurting, cracked,
> splitting nails.

Tracy,

Bottom line, a raw diet will provide the body with the best nutrition
possible. An unwell dog is in desperate need of good nutrition. While good
nutrition will not cure a thyroid condition, it will help the body heal as
best it can. This dog deserves the chance to at least feel better, yes?
Then raw is certainly the way to go.

My first thought with the nail loss is pemphigus. Here's a link -
http://home.comcast.net/~greyhndz/toenails.htm - from that article -

"Too many people spend too much time and money treating pemphigus as a
"fungal" (the #1 misdiagnosis) or "bacterial" infection with foot soaks,
topicals, and expensive oral medications."

Casey

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:32 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Alicia!
Welcome!

Getting out of the mindset that 'dogs must be fed in a dog dish' can help
your dog to learn to eat raw. Feed him in his regular eating place, if this
is a really happy and comfortable place for him, a place where he doesn't
feel he has to guard his food from housemates or have an audience. Put an
old towel, blanket or rug down in that spot and put the food on it.
Essentially giving him 'permission' to eat 'out of the box', can help him
learn that engaging with this new shape of food is OK. Using an ex-pen or
even a large box with the top and bottom flaps pushed in and placed around
him to keep him from trekking his food around will help him learn to focus
on the food and figure out what to do with it.

Marrow bones that you buy at the pet supply store are cooked bones. Being
beef bones, which once held up a cow, they are very dense. These are not
appropriate for dogs to chew, as this can lead to tooth breakage, wearing
off enamel and also wear down the teeth themselves, over time. I'd recommend
that you remove these bones, and only provide edible bones, so that your dog
can reap the dental, physical, mental and emotional benefits of eating raw

These links to archived messages give suggestions that can help you help
your dog to figure out that raw IS food!

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/130758*

*Message #130758*

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/134336*

*Message #134336*
TC and let us know how you and your dog progress!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 10/19/07, alicia.fagan <alicia.fagan@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone have suggestions for getting a dog new to raw to eat off the
> bone? This is the first week I've been trying raw with my Lhasa Apso.
> She likes the meat, but can only eat it out of the bowl; does not know
> how to tear the meat off the bone. She'll lick it or take it out of my
> hand, walk a few feet, and drop it. Strange, because she loves to gnaw
> her cooked, hollow bones. I am worried that she is not getting the
> calcium (and i do not have a grinder). I know i should give her time,
> but any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Alicia
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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4b. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
Posted by: "sonitam" sonita@westnet.com.au sonitam
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:49 pm ((PDT))

Hi Alicia
It does sound as though she may not be hungry, rather than having no
idea what to do?? Dogs will never starve - they will eat eventually
(with the exception of being ill), so if you are giving her the bones
and she does not eat them or attempt to get the meat off them, what
else (if anything) are you giving her?
If you normally feed her twice per day, do not give her the morning
meal, then give one chicken leg only, to her, on a towel/mat.
If she carries it away, take it back and put it on the mat, saying
nothing (do not say anything to her at all). SHe will learn wuickly,
that it must stay on the mat.
If after 10 mins, she still does not eat, take away the bone, again,
without saying anything. Wait 1 hr and then try again - no coaxing
etc, just place the bone down and walk away. If she still does not
eat, take it away until the next meal.
It sounds awful, but she needs to learn that you determine when she
will eat and you alone will determine what she eats. Yes, they may
struggle to start with, but if hungry, they soon work it our.
Do not give anymore 'chew toys/bones' or treats, until she eats
properly for you. Use fresh bones, not pet shop ones - much better
for her.
If she is hiding it, then she truly isn't hungry - just don't feed
that meal.
I hope this helps, without putting you off - it really does work and
do not worry about her not eating, she will eventually. At the
moment, she know you will cut it up for her, so is just being cheeky
(but very cute I am sure!).
Sonita

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "alicia.fagan" <alicia.fagan@...>
wrote:
>I tried giving her partially cut chicken legs on a towel, but she
just licks at it, doesn't know to hold it with her paws. Tries to
carry it around the house.

Messages in this topic (6)
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5a. Re: Russell
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:43 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Renate!
Just in case you decide that you should pursue the thyroid
angle, which can be tied to vaccine damage and immune system suppression -
most vets do not do the full 6 panel blood screening. Nor do they have the
depth of knowledge that Dr Dodds' intense and deep studies and database on
all breeds and ages of dogs has allowed her to amass for diagnosis of
specific dogs. Her reports reflect this knowledge and it is why she is the
world's most respected authority on canine hypothyroidism and related
diseases.
http://www.sharpeiforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000683;p=2
http://www.critterchat.net/immune.htm
http://www.dogsadversereactions.com/vDrDodds.html
http://www.foxfirepublishing.com/doddssem.html
http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-RESUME.HTM
http://www.hemopet.com/

TC
Giselle

On 10/19/07, Renate <renate.tideswell@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Giselle. WE did a blood screen before his neuter that should
> have
> caught that. I've been trying to find the results to make sure but they
> seem be hiding. However, what I did find was his vacc records from when he
> was a puppy. My vet, my chief foster mom, and I all missed this, but after
> the 2nd set of shots (booster) he went into anaphylactic shock. So now I'm
> more and more suspicious that the seizures were related to the shots and
> the neuter. I have a call into the vet, to check but I think I'm stopping
> the meds and waiting to see if he has another seizure. In the meantime,
> getting him onto raw with the rest of my guys.
> Renate
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: Little-dog sized bones
Posted by: "Ashley Myers" miragehairsalon@yahoo.com miragehairsalon
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:48 pm ((PDT))

Dawn,
I was very surprised by the fact that a thigh will last your Pom2-3 days, my Pom eats that per day! Do you think that's too much for her? I'm new here. How long have you been feeding your little ones ground food? The mess associated with raw feeding is really my main concern because my grandson is over and I worry if I'm clean enough with my dogs,because of the pulling and tearing (it gets on their feet, fur).I have considered doing ground for this very reason. My Pom is 11 lbs, my dauschund is 15 lbs.( a little heavy), my yorkie is 5 lbs. They all are enjoying raw.Any suggestions you ave had with your experience with little dogs would be helpful, and anyone else!!!!
Kitty
Dawn Taylor <dawnmarie1968@tx.rr.com> wrote:
"Hi,
I've got two Poms that I've been feeding ground rabbit, lamb, chicken,
etc. But I know they need something to chew on. I've been having trouble
finding any meaty bones that are size appropriate for my 6 pound and 4
pound dogs. Usually what I can find doesn't have a whole lot of meat,
just bone. Any suggestions?"

I've got two littles as well. They do great with any kind of chicken bone, cornish game hen, pork neck bone, beef ribs (they eat the meat off and play with the bone), and pork ribs. I get some really meaty chicken thighs at the grocery store, and these are perfect for them - each thigh is about 2 or 3 days worth of food for them.

The last two days, my 10 pounder has been working on a 24 ounce cornish game hen. She loves it! It's the first "big" meal I've ever given her, and she's enjoying the challenge. Of course, my other little one, a 13 lb Chiweenie, won't put out the effort required to figure out what to do with it. He's on a hunger strike right now because I insist he eat it.

Oh, and when I got Penny, she was only 4 pounds with little baby teeth and she could still eat chicken bones.

Anyway, it will surprise you what little dogs can eat!
--------------------------------------------------

Dawn Taylor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:50 pm ((PDT))

I am so very sorry for your loss.
No this had nothing to do with the diet. I suspect your dog got in prey mode, not in a feeding mode as you fear. I have had Cats longer than I have Rottweilers, tend to rescue cats from time to time. To make a huge story short one of my Rottweilers killed one of my cats. That particular dog loved to chase the cats as a pup and I used to think it was a game, she just had allot of prey drive and I did nothing to deter her. Needless to say I learned my lesson. I still have cats and dogs that live together in harmony and still feed raw.
Unfortuantely no matter what you feed, it will not stop this behaviour from happening. Kind of like having two dogs that hate each other with a passion. It is problem now and you need to take precautions so it won't happen again. Again I am sorry for your loss.
Loraine Jesse
www.rothburgrottweilers.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
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7b. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "Pepper" pepperanne14@yahoo.com pepperanne14
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:03 pm ((PDT))

ummmm I am sorry for your loss truly but there must be more to the story than that.. I have a Weimaraner and 5 small pets-- a chihuahua, 2 cats and bunnies. All dogs are capable of killing small animals (my chis are great mouse catchers) but you have to know that before you get them and train them appropriately. Dogs need to know their limits and should never be trusted until you have them trained well... that means with other pets and kids too.

Again I am really sorry you had to go through that... it must have been terrible.

Pep

T Smith <coldbeach@gmail.com> wrote: I am glad you wrote this.
I read that before I switched to raw because i have pet Guinea pigs but this
morning two of the dogs had torn open the cage (ripped the bars apart) &
killed 3 of them.
Can others PLEASE tell me you have pet rodents WITH your dogs & no
problems? I've had these piggies a year & this has NOT been a problem.
If it is the problem (raw feeding) I will have to go back to k***le.
I need some reassurring words here, these were my pets!
There's nothing like having to chase my Dane pup around the yard to get my
pet piggie whose head is half eaten!
Trina

On 10/19/07, Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> That one is right up there with "If you feed your dog raw they will
> become bloodthirsty." Absolute rubbish. If you feed your dog human
> grade meat there is no reason to worry about parasite infestation. If
> you are lucky enough to get wild game you can freeze the meat for a
> couple of weeks to get rid of any beasties.
>
> <snip>
>
> Andrea
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cheers,
Pep

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Messages in this topic (11)
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8.1. liver
Posted by: "hanson_jenlynn" hanson_jenlynn@yahoo.com hanson_jenlynn
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:50 pm ((PDT))

thank you all for the advice! i decided to try giving her some raw beef
liver and she gobbled it right up! apperently chicken liver isn't her
ideal meal. next week i think we're going to try pork. should i give
her pork with a bone or without? i was thinking country style pork
ribs. thanks again
~jen

Messages in this topic (45)
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9.1. Re: Eggs
Posted by: "Pi" scribblekitten@yahoo.com scribblekitten
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:21 pm ((PDT))

Mary Anne Libcke wrote:
> I would like to add eggs to my dogs' diet in the future, but from what
> I can tell you are supposed to hand them an egg in the shell from the
> fridge? Will they really know what to do with it? How much of a mess
> is that?
>
>
My pup used to roll his eggs around a bit and play with them before
finally cracking them open. These days he just bites right down and
munches up the whole thing though :) He eats everything, shell and all,
leaving no mess. If your dog doesn't eat the shell, you could crack them
into a bowl.

-Anna +Pirate + Sunshine

Messages in this topic (115)
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10. help!!! we're pregnant and not sure how/what to feed
Posted by: "nikkisevy@aol.com" nikkisevy@aol.com mavreenhering
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:58 pm ((PDT))

Hello,

I am inquiring about feeding a pregnant girl. She weighs 80 lbs
before pregnancy. When and how much do I increase the food. Are there any
foods I should be concerned about feeding her? I tried to check the archives but
I think I must be computer impaired because I had no luck. I apologize now
if this has already been discussed. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Nicole

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: another egg question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:40 pm ((PDT))

autumnji@... wrote:

> my 7# chi loves eggs. one egg = a full meal for her.
> how many of 14 meals / week can she have an egg?
*****
How long have you been feeding raw and how much egg experience has
your chi had? I suspect the easiest though messiest way to find out
how many egg meals your girl can have is to feed egg meals until she
has a digestive blow out. At which point you retreat.

A cleaner way is to start small, with two or three eggs a week.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12181

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
From: Andrea
1b. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
From: pattykat3
1c. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
From: alicia.fagan

2a. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: Scott Baker
2b. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: costrowski75
2c. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: Casey Post
2d. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: Casey Post
2e. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: Michelle LaFay
2f. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: redkeds@comcast.net
2g. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: temy1102
2h. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: mousegirls

3a. Re: Feed timing for best poop control
From: Sheryl Edelen

4a. Re: Day 5 of Reformation
From: katkellm

5a. Re: Worming
From: Casey Post

6a. Turkey Necks
From: Jennifer
6b. Re: Turkey Necks
From: Laura Atkinson
6c. Re: Turkey Necks
From: Scott Baker
6d. Re: Turkey Necks
From: carnesbill

7. another egg question
From: autumnji@aol.com

8a. Re: Explosive poo
From: temy1102

9. (no subject)
From: Tracy Meal

10a. How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
From: Finster Boy
10b. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
From: Casey Post

11a. Re: new puppy-new raw feeder
From: Tina Berry

12a. Re: Russell
From: Renate

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:08 am ((PDT))

The easiest food to eat would probably be bone in chicken breast. Try
cutting ribbons in the meat so she can get a hold of them. If you are
putting the breast piece in a bowl you should start placing it on a
towel or something instead. Bowls with big pieces often confound
newbie dogs. You might also try partially freezing the food just to
firm it up a bit.

I hope you have discontinued giving her cooked bones, though. No good
can come of those, IMO.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
Posted by: "pattykat3" pattykat3@yahoo.com pattykat3
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:19 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "alicia.fagan" <alicia.fagan@...>
wrote:
>
> Anyone have suggestions for getting a dog new to raw to eat off the
> bone? This is the first week I've been trying raw with my Lhasa apso.
> She likes the meat, but can only eat it out of the bowl; does not know
> how to tear the meat off the bone. She'll lick it or take it out of my
> hand, walk a few feet, and drop it. Strange, because she loves to gnaw
> her cooked, hollow bones. I am worried that she is not getting the
> calcium (and i do not have a grinder). I know i should give her time,
> but any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Alicia
>
My pom and I are also new to this--he's been eating raw food (chicken
wings and now the breast) for 2 weeks. The first time I gave it to
him, he also didn't seem to know what to do with it. He just licked
it, circled it and licked it. I watched him do this for quite a while
(5 or 10 minutes), before he finally decided to dig in. This
continues to be his ritual when I feed him, although he only does the
licking and circling part for about a minute or less. I think that
this might be a way of preparing his body (getting the enzymes
flowing) in order to digest his food. I have read that you should
never feed cooked bones--they apparently splinter easily. Hope this
has helped.
:-) Patty

Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
Posted by: "alicia.fagan" alicia.fagan@yahoo.com alicia.fagan
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:00 pm ((PDT))

thanks for your response, Andrea. I tried giving her partially cut
chicken legs on a towel, but she just licks at it, doesn't know to
hold it with her paws. Tries to carry it around the house. If i gate
her in the kitchen, she won't touch it; seems to really want to
hide/bury it! I did try it frozen, she didn't take to it at all. I
appreciate your thoughts, though. P.S. I don't mean cooked bones, i
mean the sterilized ones you buy at the pet store for chewing (I guess
they are shin bones or something).

Thanks!
Alicia

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> The easiest food to eat would probably be bone in chicken breast. Try
> cutting ribbons in the meat so she can get a hold of them. If you are
> putting the breast piece in a bowl you should start placing it on a
> towel or something instead. Bowls with big pieces often confound
> newbie dogs. You might also try partially freezing the food just to
> firm it up a bit.
>
> I hope you have discontinued giving her cooked bones, though. No good
> can come of those, IMO.
>
> Andrea
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "alicia.fagan" <alicia.fagan@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Anyone have suggestions for getting a dog new to raw to eat off the
> > bone? This is the first week I've been trying raw with my Lhasa apso.
> > She likes the meat, but can only eat it out of the bowl; does not know
> > how to tear the meat off the bone.
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:08 am ((PDT))

Again..nothing to do with raw feeding. Not much more we can tell you.

On 10/19/07, T Smith <coldbeach@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am glad you wrote this.
> I read that before I switched to raw because i have pet Guinea pigs but
> this
> morning two of the dogs had torn open the cage (ripped the bars apart) &
> killed 3 of them.
> Can others PLEASE tell me you have pet rodents WITH your dogs & no
> problems? I've had these piggies a year & this has NOT been a problem.
> If it is the problem (raw feeding) I will have to go back to k***le.
> I need some reassurring words here, these were my pets!
> There's nothing like having to chase my Dane pup around the yard to get my
> pet piggie whose head is half eaten!
> Trina
>
> .
>
>
>

--
Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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2b. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:12 am ((PDT))

"T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>this
> morning two of the dogs had torn open the cage (ripped the bars
apart) &
> killed 3 of them.
*****
RIPPED the bars apart? How? Is there more to this sad tale than you
are telling?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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2c. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:16 am ((PDT))

> I read that before I switched to raw because i have pet Guinea pigs but
> this
> morning two of the dogs had torn open the cage (ripped the bars apart) &
> killed 3 of them.

Oh Trina, I'm so sorry! That must have been horrible for you.

> Can others PLEASE tell me you have pet rodents WITH your dogs & no
> problems?

No, I can't. But I'm living with dogs with prey drives - two are not safe
with rodents of any kind and one is not safe with birds of any kind. It has
nothing to do with what they're eating, it has to do with what they are -
dogs. Predators.

If I had only my Lab (who has the prey drive of a stick of butter), I could
completely trust him around rodents and birds. But the other two? No way.

> I've had these piggies a year & this has NOT been a problem.
> If it is the problem (raw feeding) I will have to go back to k***le.
> I need some reassurring words here, these were my pets!
> There's nothing like having to chase my Dane pup around the yard to get my
> pet piggie whose head is half eaten!

I don't know what circumstances triggered this event, but something did. I
can completely reassure you that it was NOT the diet. I'm very sorry this
happened, but it's not a matter of a dog "turning bloodthirsty". It's a
matter of a dog being a dog. Can some dogs be trusted with small animals?
Yes. But many dogs cannot...

Casey

Messages in this topic (9)
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2d. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:21 am ((PDT))

And, because it's always worth posting again, Colby the Killer -

http://rawfed.com/colbythekiller.html

Casey

Messages in this topic (9)
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2e. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "Michelle LaFay" mblafay@gmail.com mblafay
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:40 am ((PDT))

Like others have said, this is not a raw feeding issue, this is a
predator/prey issue. I am so very sorry for your loss. We have 5 dogs, 3 can
be trusted with the chickens milling about with 100% assurance the chickens
will not be harmed (one dog, however, needs periodic rescuing FROM the
chickens), one can usually be trusted and one is never let loose with them
out and about (rarely an issue, she has her own yard). They for the most
part are true to themselves - the sighthound does think it's fun to make
them flutter about but wouldn't hurt them for anything, the border collie
can usually be found herding them around or staring at them from the safety
of the deck (she isn't totally convinced they won't get her lol), the
chi/doxie mix is more true to her chi-ness and is terrified of them - three
hens and the rooster ganging up on her and beating the crap out of her
didn't help matters any. The schnauzer is the one who we don't have to stand
guard over but we do need to check on him periodically and remind him he is
not to hunt the chickens. Has nothing to do with being raw fed, he was a
chicken killer long before I discovered raw, he is actually better now than
he was. The akita I don't think has ever actually threatened the chickens
but we don't give her the opportunity, like I said, she has her own yard as
she does not appreciate the company of the other 4 dogs anyways.

--
Michelle - The Future Mrs Foley!
mblafay@gmail.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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2f. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "redkeds@comcast.net" redkeds@comcast.net redkeds1
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:57 pm ((PDT))

Trina,

This is NOT related to raw feeding - there are many previous posts addressing this - it is a behavioral issue, nOT food based.

Maggie, Rufus, Oliver and Mickey

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "T Smith" <coldbeach@gmail.com>
I am glad you wrote this.
I read that before I switched to raw because i have pet Guinea pigs but this
morning two of the dogs had torn open the cage (ripped the bars apart) &
killed 3 of them.
Can others PLEASE tell me you have pet rodents WITH your dogs & no
problems? I've had these piggies a year & this has NOT been a problem.
If it is the problem (raw feeding) I will have to go back to k***le.
I need some reassurring words here, these were my pets!
There's nothing like having to chase my Dane pup around the yard to get my
pet piggie whose head is half eaten!
Trina

On 10/19/07, Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> That one is right up there with "If you feed your dog raw they will
> become bloodthirsty." Absolute rubbish. If you feed your dog human
> grade meat there is no reason to worry about parasite infestation. If
> you are lucky enough to get wild game you can freeze the meat for a
> couple of weeks to get rid of any beasties.
>
> <snip>
>
> Andrea
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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2g. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "temy1102" ahn.tammy@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:58 pm ((PDT))

I don't have pet rodents right now, but my experience with prey drives
is this: I had a Jindo who would try to pounce and kill toy dogs, yet
slept in her bed with our cat. My corgi mix would kill wild rodents
in his younger days, but was tolerant of my indoor pet rat (who has
since died of old age.) Neither of them were raw fed at the time. I
have a raw fed foster husky who tries to kill pet cats, but is fine
with toy dogs. And my raw-fed Doberman Pinscher is trusted around toy
dogs, kittens, and even a friend's pet rabbit who freely hops around
her apartment.

Based on this, I don't think you can chalk prey drive up to raw
feeding. Because there are kibble fed dogs that will attack and eat
small animals and raw fed dogs that won't, and vice versa. Hope this
helps.

-Tammy

Messages in this topic (9)
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2h. Re: Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "mousegirls" mousegirls@gmail.com ladysown
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:59 pm ((PDT))

Has NOTHING to do with raw feeding. Has everything to do with the
kill/prey instinct in the dog AND what they have learned is or is not
okay to pursue.

have rabbits, mice and guinea pigs in my house.

Can let all run free (well...except the mice which Sassy will pick up
and hold firmly with her mouth and sometimes kill because mice squirm
and don't like being picked up that way (go figure eh?)

Sassy will NOT harm the rabbits or piggies and will indeed try to help
me catch them (by attempting to herd them over to me) because
occasionally life intervenes and they do the "I can escape thing".
Silly critters, don't they know the world is a big and scary????

Previous dog that we recently had put to rest would on the other hand,
kill anything that moved within reach.

annette
http://ladysown.blogspot.com/
http://agilitynut.wordpress.com/

Messages in this topic (9)
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3a. Re: Feed timing for best poop control
Posted by: "Sheryl Edelen" sophiiblu@yahoo.com sophiiblu
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:11 am ((PDT))

I say feed the biggest meal when you'll be home to let them out to relieve themselves afterward. For me, that would be in the evening.

Sheryl Edelen
Co-moderator, If Pits & Rotts Could Talk
"People think responsibility is hard to bear. It's not. I think that sometimes it is the absence of responsibility that is harder to bear. You have a great feeling of impotence." - Henry Kissinger
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Re: Day 5 of Reformation
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:19 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "totaly_his" <totaly_his@...> wrote:
I notice
> that some on this forum don't feed every day. How do I know If my dogs
> can/needs to skip a day of feeding?
Hi Jackie,
Its not a needs to thing, it is a feeding style preference thing.
Right now, though, feeding less than once a day for your crew isn't a
good idea. You have forever to feed big and exciting meals. Feeding
less than once a day requires you to feed lots of food at one time and
for right now lots of food could give your guys diarrhea. I would
stick to one meal a day for now and feed through all the meat and
parts that are available to you. A couple of few months from now,
that is an option i would encourage you to try.

>Also, does it hurt anything if after
>I eat my dinner that I give her a bite of my bread, steak, or popcorn,

Treats are just that, treats and as long as they don't cause any
adverse reactions or take away size from the intended meal they are
great. I wouldn't want to be the one to break the news to my 3 that
treats are off limits.

>Next week should I feed her some beef? Do I mix the beef
> daily WITH the chicken or offer beef every other day?

You could feed beef next, but because of the cost and the fact, for my
dogs anyways , it seems to be "richer" i would say pork might be
better. I would offer a little of the new meat along side the
chicken, being careful to make sure you reduce the amount of chicken
so you don't over feed. Every day increase the new meat as you
decrease the old one. After a few days of this, if all goes well,
just feed an entire meal of the new meat. Sounds like you are doing
great. KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: Worming
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:23 am ((PDT))

> That is, the cats were being treated for cow and pig parasites
> for example.

Sarah,

Wow. That's a bit nuts.

I mean, theoretically, the cows and pigs are already being treated for
parasites, right?

And meat from the store has already been inspected and frozen (in most
cases), so "wormy" doesn't exactly describe it.

My animals get no worming unless there is a very, very good reason to do so.

Casey

Messages in this topic (18)
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6a. Turkey Necks
Posted by: "Jennifer" kali_moonwolf@yahoo.com kali_moonwolf
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:40 am ((PDT))

Hi! While I feed my puppy raw, I haven't fed turkey necks before as I
read somewhere that turkey necks are the perfect size for choking. Now
Im thinking maybe that isn't so... I've also read that they are a great
source of calcium, so I'd like to give my growing puppy some. Does
anyone see problems with this?
-Jennifer

Messages in this topic (20)
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6b. Re: Turkey Necks
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:51 am ((PDT))

Well, anything with bone in it is a great source of calcium <grin>.
Turkey necks are particularly boney, so if that's like your only bone
source, you'll get plenty.

I feed 'em, usually in between days of nothing but meat. But I have
exquisitely polite eaters who take up to 5 minutes on a simple chicken
quarter, so my dogs aren't necessarily "normal" in that regard.

If your puppy isn't a gulper, give 'em a try, but know that you're
going to need to add a fair amount of meat (over time for heavens
sake, we don't worry about daily "balance") for things to come out
even in whatever measure of time you choose to worry about. I worry
about things over a month. Fill up the freezers with appropriate
variety and by the time it's empty, they've gotten what they need. :-)

On 10/19/07, Jennifer <kali_moonwolf@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi! While I feed my puppy raw, I haven't fed turkey necks before as I
> read somewhere that turkey necks are the perfect size for choking. Now
> Im thinking maybe that isn't so... I've also read that they are a great
> source of calcium, so I'd like to give my growing puppy some. Does
> anyone see problems with this?
> -Jennifer

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.

Messages in this topic (20)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: Turkey Necks
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:57 pm ((PDT))

If you have a dog that likes to gulp, then yes, they CAN be a coking hazard.
However they are agreat at scrubing teeth for a dog who would take its time
with them. So its a matter of know thy dog and their eating habbits.

On 10/19/07, Jennifer <kali_moonwolf@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi! While I feed my puppy raw, I haven't fed turkey necks before as I
> read somewhere that turkey necks are the perfect size for choking. Now
> Im thinking maybe that isn't so... I've also read that they are a great
> source of calcium, so I'd like to give my growing puppy some. Does
> anyone see problems with this?
> -Jennifer
>
>
>

--
Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (20)
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6d. Re: Turkey Necks
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:40 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer" <kali_moonwolf@...>
wrote:
>
> I haven't fed turkey necks before as I
> read somewhere that turkey necks are the perfect size for choking.

I suggest you feed whole turkey necks. Most of what you get in the
grocery store are cut in half and you get the two halves in a
package. An uncut turkey neck should be about a foot long and weigh
somewhere around a pound. I feed them a couple of times a week.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (20)
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________________________________________________________________________

7. another egg question
Posted by: "autumnji@aol.com" autumnji@aol.com jayagurumayi
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:58 pm ((PDT))

*** Mod Note: please sign your posts ***

my 7# chi loves eggs. one egg = a full meal for her.
how many of 14 meals / week can she have an egg?

**************************************
See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Re: Explosive poo
Posted by: "temy1102" ahn.tammy@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:59 pm ((PDT))

The only experience I have with explosive poo like that is when my
Doberman eats too much organ mix or is under stress. But my older 13
year old also has off and on diarrhea, and it's chronic. There's
nothing wrong with his health, but I've found that too MUCH bone
aggravates it. So he only gets bone in his meals maybe once a week if
at all. I think older dogs are just more sensitive after a lifetime
of poison. Keeping a journal and tweaking the diet little by little
really helps to control it. Hope this helps.

-Tammy

Messages in this topic (4)
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________________________________________________________________________

9. (no subject)
Posted by: "Tracy Meal" hiddenpoetinme1@yahoo.com hiddenpoetinme1
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:59 pm ((PDT))

HI Shawna,

> but his skin is terribly -- he's SO itchy and he's covered in
dandruff.

>He is one a low dose of thyroid medication and I give him
omega 3 daily (3VHP capsules).

I have been feeding my two female rotties raw for 3 months. My older girl had a similar problem.
She is on thyroid meds too...
Make sure her levels are OK.
My girl had horrible dandruff until we got her levels into the mid to high normal range.
The Omega 3 oil will help.

Tracy

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Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
Posted by: "Finster Boy" finster_boy1@yahoo.com finster_boy1
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:00 pm ((PDT))

I posted about my yorkie having trouble w/ anal gland infection. I took
him to the vet today.
This vet used to sell raw food. (his freezer broke leaving a big mess
so he ceased selling raw) Before even calling me out of the waiting
room, he chided me for the raw diet.
Then he let me explain what brought us there. He checked the glands and
they were clear as a bell. He wants me to switch my dog to canned I/D
food. I tried to ask what is it that HE thinks about the raw diet that
is causing my dogs's bloody diarreah and discomfort. He said he can't
digest fat. When he gave me the print out for the I/D and we looked at
the ingredient list, guess what was in it? Animal fat!
The vet also blames the variety: switching from poultry, lamb, venison,
beef as a contributing factor. I thought variety was a good thing.

Here's the real ridiculous part: when I tried to explain I want to feed
my dog a natural diet like in the wild, he said well, he's not in the
wild, he domesticated. I asked if that changes their digestive tract
operation? He says YES, definately. Can you believe this guy?
Well, at least I got him to do a blood test to see where his liver,
pancreas levels are. A quick stool test cleared any parasites.
My dog has this problem maybe twice a year. And he went problem free
for 2 years when I first switched him over to raw. I feel if the diet
was to blame then he would be sick more often. Am I right?

This is my forth vet. None in my area are open to raw.
Does anyone else go toe to toe with the vets about the raw diet?

And when the vet says to give him boiled chicken and rice for a week to
give the digestive system a rest, won't raw chicken be even easier to
digest than boiled chicken?

Thanx,
Patricia

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:57 pm ((PDT))

> Does anyone else go toe to toe with the vets about the raw diet?

My vet and I agree to disagree. When she couldn't find a reason for an
anomaly in the blood work of a cat of mine, she thought that it must be the
diet. I told her that I had been feeding other cats the same diet for years
and this anomaly had never shown up in any of their blood values. After
talking with me some more, she accepted the fact that it was not the diet
after all and was willing to look at other possibilities. As long as a vet
is willing to consider ALL of the possibilities, we can work together. If
they see diet as the be-all, end-all of what might be wrong and are blinded
to anything else, then we've got a problem.

On the rare occasion I have to see a vet who is not my regular one
(emergency, fill in, whatever), I don't discuss diet at all. Especially in
an emergency - I need them to see the animal, not the diet.

Casey

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Re: new puppy-new raw feeder
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:41 pm ((PDT))

"Pups this young generally need to eat at least 3 times a day, sometimes 4
times, temporarily, until about 5-7 mo. - then 2 meals a day until about
9-12 mo - then 1 meal a day - and once they reach their full growth, even
every other day.

Regular mealtimes are best for a pup, and make potty training easier to
manage. "Free feeding" is a cr*p-in-a-bag concept, and results in 'free
pooping', too! "

Ditto on the above. As far as the squirts, I'd say the pup is still
adjusting to new food, new home etc. You are doing a great job on the potty
routine - letting him out every hour, when he wakes up from a nap, first
thing in the am, an hour after he eats, etc.

I would do what Chris O recommended on feeding a whole chicken over time,
eventually he consumes the whole chicken which is what we refer to as the
whole prey model raw feeding. After he gets used to the chicken and chicken
organs, say a month, move on to slowly introducing another meat source.
Organs are very rich so if you get your hands on organs, introduce very
slowly. Mine can now get a whole organ meal once a week with 10% bone and
they are fine as far as no loose stools.

You can also slowly introduce eggs after he has settled in; I give mine an
egg daily, but you should start out with once a week for awhile, then twice,
etc.

The only bones to stay away from are leg bones (weight bearing bones) these
are tooth breakers.

--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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12a. Re: Russell
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:41 pm ((PDT))

Thanks, Giselle. WE did a blood screen before his neuter that should have
caught that. I've been trying to find the results to make sure but they
seem be hiding. However, what I did find was his vacc records from when he
was a puppy. My vet, my chief foster mom, and I all missed this, but after
the 2nd set of shots (booster) he went into anaphylactic shock. So now I'm
more and more suspicious that the seizures were related to the shots and
the neuter. I have a call into the vet, to check but I think I'm stopping
the meds and waiting to see if he has another seizure. In the meantime,
getting him onto raw with the rest of my guys.
REnate

10/19/07, Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, Renate!
> Have you explored the possibility that Russell may be
> hypothyroid?
> http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/ThyroidDisease.htm
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12180

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Little-dog sized bones
From: Dawn Taylor

2a. Question on skin condition
From: Shawna
2b. Re: Question on skin condition
From: Andrea
2c. Re: Question on skin condition
From: costrowski75
2d. Re: Question on skin condition
From: marblekallie
2e. Re: Question on skin condition
From: Carol Dunster
2f. Re: Question on skin condition
From: cynthia iparraguirre

3a. Re: Explosive poo
From: Casey Post

4.1. Re: Tripe
From: costrowski75
4.2. Re: Tripe
From: costrowski75
4.3. Re: Tripe
From: darkstardog

5a. Re: Questions from a Newbie
From: Andrea

6a. Re: Feed timing for best poop control
From: Andrea

7a. Re: Quick Question...Pig Heads and Organs
From: Carol Dunster

8.1. Eggs
From: Mary Anne Libcke
8.2. Re: Eggs
From: cynthia iparraguirre
8.3. Re: Eggs
From: costrowski75
8.4. Re: Eggs
From: carnesbill
8.5. Re: Eggs
From: Carol Dunster

9a. Worming
From: qsgirl916
9b. Re: Worming
From: Andrea

10a. Day 5 of Reformation
From: totaly_his
10b. Re: Day 5 of Reformation
From: costrowski75

11. Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
From: T Smith

12. Coaxing to gnaw bone
From: alicia.fagan

Messages
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1a. Re: Little-dog sized bones
Posted by: "Dawn Taylor" dawnmarie1968@tx.rr.com dawnt91
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:20 am ((PDT))

"Hi,
I've got two Poms that I've been feeding ground rabbit, lamb, chicken,
etc. But I know they need something to chew on. I've been having trouble
finding any meaty bones that are size appropriate for my 6 pound and 4
pound dogs. Usually what I can find doesn't have a whole lot of meat,
just bone. Any suggestions?"

Oh, and when I got Penny, she was only 4 pounds with little baby teeth and she could still eat chicken bones.

Anyway, it will surprise you what little dogs can eat!
--------------------------------------------------

Dawn Taylor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Question on skin condition
Posted by: "Shawna" Mavides@aol.com mavidess
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:29 am ((PDT))

Hi everyone,

Well, I think I'm in my 4th week now of feeding raw to my 4 year old
Rottweiler. I was thrilled with the immediate results -- his poop
was much more firm than it ever was (but not crumbly!) and his coat
and skin condition improved greatly!!

Unfortunately, that's not the case anymore -- his poop is still good,
but his skin is terribly -- he's SO itchy and he's covered in
dandruff. I was prepared for a slight "detox" stage...but I figured
since the first 2 weeks went so well, perhaps we would skip that part
(he was on Eagle Pack Holistic Duck & Oatmeal before).

My question is does this sound like a normal reaction? Or am I doing
something wrong? Since his stomach seemed to tolerate the switch so
well, I've fed him quite a variety of food already...the majority has
been chicken legs and thighs, but he also gets a good amount of
ground beef, beef ribs, turkey legs and wings, turkey necks, tripe,
liver, heart, eggs, gizzards, sardines (canned), mackral (canned),
tilapia, lamb necks, ground lamb, and I just recently purchased "beef
cheek meat"...not sure what exactly that was, but it looked like
something he would like (I haven't given that to him yet, so if
anyone knows something I don't about that, please share!). He's had
allergies in the past...which was one of the reasons I wanted to try
the raw diet...but it seems like they've gotten worse this past
week. He is one a low dose of thyroid medication and I give him
omega 3 daily (3VHP capsules). Anyone have a suggestion of something
else I should try? Or are we still in the adjustment period and we
should just wait it out?

Thank you in advance for your help!!! All suggestions and thoughts
welcome!!!

Shawna
Glendale, AZ

Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: Question on skin condition
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:46 am ((PDT))

When I switched my youngest pup to raw, he went through a couple of
weeks where he was really itchy and he had dry dandruffy skin. At that
point he was mainly eating chicken and rabbit, so I started feeding him
fattier foods and started giving him a high dose of fish oil (1000mg
per 10lb of dog). Since making those switches his skin is much
better. Perhaps your boy just needs some more fat or oil in his diet.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Shawna" <Mavides@...> wrote:

> he's SO itchy and he's covered in dandruff. I was prepared for a
> slight "detox" stage...but I figured since the first 2 weeks went
> so well, perhaps we would skip that part

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: Question on skin condition
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:08 am ((PDT))

"Shawna" <Mavides@...> wrote:
his skin is terribly -- he's SO itchy and he's covered in
> dandruff. I was prepared for a slight "detox" stage...but I
figured
> since the first 2 weeks went so well, perhaps we would skip that
part
> (he was on Eagle Pack Holistic Duck & Oatmeal before).
>
> My question is does this sound like a normal reaction? Or am I
doing
> something wrong?
*****
It doesn't sound normal to me and if you're doing anything "wrong"
you can undo it.

You are feeding such a mixed buffet that it is impossible to know if
any of his meals are responsible for his problems. I recommend you
pick one meat to feed for a while to simplify things. Always--when
in doubt--simplify. Retreating to a meat that has previously been
successful can help determine what is not successful.

it seems like they've gotten worse this past
> week.
*****
Then the source of the problem is most likely a. whatever it was you
just fed, or b. not food at all but some environmental change.

He is one a low dose of thyroid medication and I give him
> omega 3 daily (3VHP capsules).
*****
Perhaps you should make sure his thyroid dosage and his diet are
compatible. You might also consider upping his 3V dose; it appears
the standard recommended dose is pretty low. The problem (as I see
it) with 3V is when you jack up the dose to increase Omega 3s you
also increase the cod liver oil. Generally there is little reason to
feed CLO; certainly there is no reason to increase it in this
circumstance. Adding a dedicated Omega 3 product or switching to one
may be helpful.

I suggest you evaluate his world. Medical influences, cleaning
solvents, bedding, yard maintenance, pesticide control, central
heating, training treats, enhanced foods, stress, weather changes--
the whole schmear. Something may be new and invasive.

It's possible of course that what you are seeing is a merely a result
of ditching the kibble, in which case it will resolve, probably more
promptly with increased fish oil and extra grooming. But I would be
inclined to suss out external influences as well. If not instead of
waiting it out, certainly along with.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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2d. Re: Question on skin condition
Posted by: "marblekallie" marble@pipeline.com marblekallie
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:09 am ((PDT))

Hi:

You have an awful lot of variety in there very soon after switching.
I would start removing things -- particularly poultry -- to see
whether it makes a difference. One of the food sources may be the
culprit. There are some that don't do that well with chicken, I have
one dog that doesn't. You can also check omega 3, like stopping it
for a day or two to see. Maybe a different brand works better,
perhaps salmon oil would be better. Don't stop the thyroid med.
though.

You mention also that it got worse these last weeks, so what did you
do different? Each animal is different and not everything works for
everyone, so find out what foods seem to be beneficial and drop those
that aren't. While it is good to feed variety -- too much might be
too much.

HTH

Philippa Jordan
New York City

> -- he's SO itchy and he's covered in
> dandruff.

Messages in this topic (6)
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2e. Re: Question on skin condition
Posted by: "Carol Dunster" cedunster@centurytel.net carwynst
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:15 am ((PDT))

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:28:34 -0000, you wrote:

>Hi everyone,
>
>Well, I think I'm in my 4th week now of feeding raw to my 4 year old
>Rottweiler. I was thrilled with the immediate results -- his poop
>was much more firm than it ever was (but not crumbly!) and his coat
>and skin condition improved greatly!!
>
>Unfortunately, that's not the case anymore -- his poop is still good,
>but his skin is terribly -- he's SO itchy and he's covered in
>dandruff.

snip

>..... Since his stomach seemed to tolerate the switch so
>well, I've fed him quite a variety of food already...the majority has
>been chicken legs and thighs, but he also gets a good amount of
>ground beef, beef ribs, turkey legs and wings, turkey necks, tripe,
>liver, heart, eggs, gizzards, sardines (canned), mackral (canned),
>tilapia, lamb necks, ground lamb,

snip

> Anyone have a suggestion of something
>else I should try?

I would say that with an allergic dog, you would want to cut him back
to ONE protein source, let his system settle down for a couple of
weeks, then add ONE protein source at a time and feed it for a couple
of weeks before moving on. That way, if he reacts poorly to a certain
protein, you will know what it is that is bothering him. Be sure you
aren't feeding him any grains, veggies, etc.

Just my opinion... :)
~ Carol
_____________
Carol Dunster
cedunster@centurytel.net

Messages in this topic (6)
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2f. Re: Question on skin condition
Posted by: "cynthia iparraguirre" cyn7711@yahoo.com cyn7711
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:07 am ((PDT))

When I started my Lab on raw she looked great, but about a month into it she like your dog started being very itchy & lost tons of hair. At first I was scared that it might be the food I was feedning but It turned out that she had develop an allergy to fleas!
Cynthia flores

Shawna <Mavides@aol.com> wrote:
-- he's SO itchy and he's covered in
dandruff.

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

__________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: Explosive poo
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:29 am ((PDT))

> Ginger, my 9-plus-year-old rescue, has had *explosive* diarrhea,
> off-and-on, no discernable trigger, for about six months now.

Kate,

There were a couple of medical things that came to mind, including EPI
(Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency) and SIBO (Small Intestine Bacterial
Overgrowth), but then I came across this -

http://www.upei.ca/cidd/Diseases/GI%20disorders/immunoproliferative%20enteropathy.htm

"Basenji enteropathy"?

Casey

Messages in this topic (3)
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4.1. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:56 am ((PDT))

Arlene Fell <abeautiful3@...> wrote:
> I was wondering how much tripe and how often to feed; and is tripe
considered a meal in its self?
*****
You can feed green tripe in whatever amounts you want, whenever you
want, however you want. What ultimately defines tripe in the diet is
how much you can afford, how much your dogs like it, and how they
digest it. I know of few dogs that respond badly to green tripe but as
with all foods, feed to your dogs' tolerances and adjust as necessary.

While I rarely feed green tripe as a meal by itself, lots of people
do. I am seriously pinching pennies right now, so I am not
comfortable "squandering" green tripe as a full meal for four dogs.
When I have it, I generally add it to a meal.

In fact, rehashing the somewhat overdone thread of green tripe versus
chicken backs, I occasionally feed green tripe WITH chicken backs.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (235)
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4.2. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:10 am ((PDT))

"Josephine Morningstar" <josephine.morningstar@...> wrote:
>
> actually, green tripe is more then that.. its the 4th stomach of the
cow..
> and in that 4th stomach, is the enzymes and amino acids that meat
eaters
> need to help to digest food..
*****
I get your point, but it's my understanding that green tripe can
include to however many stomachs are processed and is not necessarily
limited to the fourth.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (235)
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4.3. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "darkstardog" darkstardog@charter.net darkstardog
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:15 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Josephine Morningstar"
> <josephine.morningstar@> wrote:
> >
> > actually, green tripe is more then that.. its the 4th stomach
> > of the cow.. and in that 4th stomach, is the enzymes and
> > amino acids that meat eaters need to help to digest food..
>
> I think you are mistaken there. There is no reason for enzymes to
> digest meat to be in a cow's stomach. Cows don't eat meat. Dogs
> already have he necessary enzymes to digest meat without eating it
> in tripe. If tripe were needed my dogs and many many other dogs
> would be in trouble because they haven't had tripe in their lives.
>

She's right that cows have digestive enzymes in the fourth stomach
region including pepsin. They do need them because they digest the
bacteria and other microorganisms that are processing the plant
material in the other stomach chambers. The bacteria are a source of
amino acids to cows.
And I guess they would also digest proteins from the plant material if
the bacteria haven't used them up.

Meat eaters don't need cow enzymes to digest their own food though.
Dogs and people make also make pepsin in their stomachs - we don't
have to get it secondhand.

Marty

Messages in this topic (235)
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5a. Re: Questions from a Newbie
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:09 am ((PDT))

Alicia, it sounds like things are going great! I commend you for going
slow with variety, it was one of the hardest things to do for me.

> 1) Does it sound like I'm going about this right? I have the
> dogs' enthusiastic approval, but they'd approve of a pizza diet.

Yes, it sounds like you are doing great.

> 2) Anyone heard of Hudson Chicken? The packaging says nothing
> about additives, only "Less than 5% retained water."

I've never heard of Hudson, but it sounds like a great deal. Retained
water isn't anything you need to worry about.

> 3) <snip> Any other suggestions for adding weight to an
> underweight gsd?

Adding fattier meals always helps to fill a dog out.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: Feed timing for best poop control
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:28 am ((PDT))

Well, how long it takes to poo really depends on what my dog eats and
how much. I'm pretty sure that the dogs go once a day, but it never
seems to be at the same time every day. It would probably be easiest
for poop control if you fed once a day, but if you want to feed twice
then maybe a big morning meal and a snack late in the evening? Sorry I
can't be more help.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, caroline gebbie <caz320ml@...> wrote:

> I want to feed twice a day, she loves her food and is too used to
> this to change now, which is the best way round, big meal am or big
> meal pm any ideas?

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Re: Quick Question...Pig Heads and Organs
Posted by: "Carol Dunster" cedunster@centurytel.net carwynst
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:09 am ((PDT))

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 02:18:34 -0000, you wrote:

>Any
>suggestions on how to prepare my own digestive system before receiving
>these items?

Nose plugs? I get raw fresh cow's liver and it does stink when I wash
it and cut it up to freeze. I find that the hardest part of it. Also
get a very sharp knife if you are going to have to cut things up and
freeze them (I have Toy dogs, they just don't eat 50 lbs of liver in a
sitting... hehe).
~ Carol
_____________
Carol Dunster
cedunster@centurytel.net

Messages in this topic (6)
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8.1. Eggs
Posted by: "Mary Anne Libcke" Marylibcke@hotmail.com libckem
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:52 am ((PDT))

I would like to add eggs to my dogs' diet in the future, but from what
I can tell you are supposed to hand them an egg in the shell from the
fridge? Will they really know what to do with it? How much of a mess
is that?

Sorry to be dense about this. I do have to say though that since
starting to feed raw (only a few days) I feel so empowered. Maybe it
is a control thing? But I feel like a stronger bond is there because I
am not just pouring food in a bowl and walking away. Does this make
sense to anyone?

Thanks

You guys are great.

Mary Libcke
Marylibcke@hotmail.com

Messages in this topic (114)
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8.2. Re: Eggs
Posted by: "cynthia iparraguirre" cyn7711@yahoo.com cyn7711
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:07 am ((PDT))

I hand it straight to my dog. She does great, and at times she even eats the whole shell leaving behind little to no mess.

Cynthia Flores

Mary Anne Libcke <Marylibcke@hotmail.com> wrote:
I would like to add eggs to my dogs' diet in the future, but from what
I can tell you are supposed to hand them an egg in the shell from the
fridge? Will they really know what to do with it? How much of a mess
is that?

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

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Messages in this topic (114)
________________________________________________________________________

8.3. Re: Eggs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:37 am ((PDT))

"Mary Anne Libcke" <Marylibcke@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to add eggs to my dogs' diet in the future, but from
what
> I can tell you are supposed to hand them an egg in the shell from
the
> fridge?
*****
This but one way. Newbie dogs might need help figuring out what to
do with it; you may way to put it in a bowl or even going so far
(for the ova-challenged raw eater) as to break the egg into the
bowl. The learning curve is swift though. Your dog will catch on.

> Sorry to be dense about this.
*****
Not dense. Let me tell you dense: When way back I decided that
veggie mash was a tragic joke I was happy to remove it from the menu
but DARNED if I could figure out what to replace it with. Isn't
that pathetic? I mean, catastrophic brain failure. Meat of
course. More lovely, appropriate meat. So no, not dense.

But I feel like a stronger bond is there because I
> am not just pouring food in a bowl and walking away. Does this
make
> sense to anyone?
*****
Yes, absolutely and it just gets better.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (114)
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8.4. Re: Eggs
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:47 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Anne Libcke"
<Marylibcke@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to add eggs to my dogs' diet in the future, but
> from what I can tell you are supposed to hand them an egg in
> the shell from the fridge?

You can do it that way but it's not mandatory. I usually break the
eggs open and put them in a bowl with other food. I don't feed
shells to my dogs. They don't particualrly like them. The only
real nutrient in the shell is calcium and they get plenty of that
from bone.

> Will they really know what to do with it?

Mine don't when it's in the shell. :)

> How much of a mess is that?

My dogs will clean up whatever mess they make while eating.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (114)
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8.5. Re: Eggs
Posted by: "Carol Dunster" cedunster@centurytel.net carwynst
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:58 am ((PDT))

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:20:16 -0000, you wrote:

>I would like to add eggs to my dogs' diet in the future, but from what
>I can tell you are supposed to hand them an egg in the shell from the
>fridge?

To be honest, I have small dogs and add one egg to whatever else they
are eating every so often. I break mine, whisk it and pour it over
their other food. I think I might go to just dumping one in each bowl
and tossing something with it on "egg" day. My duck's eggs weigh from
2.5 oz to 3.75 oz, so are almost a whole meal for my Toy dogs!
~ Carol
_____________
Carol Dunster
cedunster@centurytel.net

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9a. Worming
Posted by: "qsgirl916" qsgirl916@yahoo.com qsgirl916
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:56 am ((PDT))

After talking with one of my friends about my conversion to raw-
feeding, she told me that she knew someone else who did with their
cats. She said that this couple had to worm the cats for all the
parasites that could have affected the animals that the meat had come
from. That is, the cats were being treated for cow and pig parasites
for example. I haven't heard of this or read of it in my research. Does
this sound familiar to any of you? Are you going above and beyond the
normal worming for your dogs?

Thanks,
Sarah

Messages in this topic (17)
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9b. Re: Worming
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:14 am ((PDT))

That one is right up there with "If you feed your dog raw they will
become bloodthirsty." Absolute rubbish. If you feed your dog human
grade meat there is no reason to worry about parasite infestation. If
you are lucky enough to get wild game you can freeze the meat for a
couple of weeks to get rid of any beasties.

There is no reason to worm a dog unless it has a wom infestation that
negatively impacts their health, IMO. Just keep doing what you are
doing and don't let people's "I know a guy who. . ." stories get to you.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "qsgirl916" <qsgirl916@...> wrote:

> That is, the cats were being treated for cow and pig parasites
> for example. I haven't heard of this or read of it in my research.
> Does this sound familiar to any of you? Are you going above and
> beyond the normal worming for your dogs?

Messages in this topic (17)
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10a. Day 5 of Reformation
Posted by: "totaly_his" totaly_his@yahoo.com totaly_his
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:00 am ((PDT))

I started raw feeding 5 days ago. She has eaten every day. I notice
that some on this forum don't feed every day. How do I know If my dogs
can/needs to skip a day of feeding? Her BM's are alright, a little on
the soft side but not runny. I saw her eating grass yesterday and she
does that if she has a bellyache. Also, does it hurt anything if after
I eat my dinner that I give her a bite of my bread, steak, or popcorn,
mainly because she is watching me eat and I know she wants a bite of
what I am having (she's not spoiled or anything :-). I don't want to
mess anything up though. She has been on all chicken meat and bones
this week. Next week should I feed her some beef? Do I mix the beef
daily WITH the chicken or offer beef every other day? Thanks bunches!
Jackie

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10b. Re: Day 5 of Reformation
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:51 am ((PDT))

"totaly_his" <totaly_his@...> wrote:
> I started raw feeding 5 days ago. She has eaten every day.
*****
Reformation? Oh no! I hope you're not feeding her a diet of worms.

I notice
> that some on this forum don't feed every day. How do I know If my
dogs
> can/needs to skip a day of feeding?
*****
The purpose of skipping days is to allow the food when it is fed to be
Big Food--complicated, cumbersome, awkward, challening, fully
engrossing and fully filling. I am quite pleased with the results of
feeding Big Food and I recommend it but--but!!

I suggest you and your kid spend more time on the job before you expand
your horizons so broadly. I think the both of you should be
comfortable with meaty bones and comfortable with meatymeat, and
accustomed to meals of irregular size and timing. I think you guys got
lots of time.

Right now, I would suggest skipping a meal when/if digestive upset
calls for a bit of easing-off; otherwise, focus on successfully
introducing protein and body part variety. First things first.

Also, does it hurt anything if after
> I eat my dinner that I give her a bite of my bread, steak, or
popcorn,
*****
Just don't overdo it and if some treats seem to cause upset tummies,
stop feeding those treats. I think feeding treats because she's
expecting you to is a behavior misdemeanor, not a feeding issue. Which
of course is not a topic for this list.

I don't want to
> mess anything up though.
*****
You're not likely to mess anything up that can't be unmessed. Loose
stools happen. They don't signify failure or disease or allergies or
bad meat, they mean too much food, too much new, too much fat. So if
you mess up, retreat and try to suss out why your got the results you
did. When in doubt, simplify.

She has been on all chicken meat and bones
> this week. Next week should I feed her some beef?
*****
If you are comfortable with her performance on chicken, move on. It
sounds to me though that soft stools are a consideration for you, so
maybe stay put another few days. Again, you got time.

Do I mix the beef
> daily WITH the chicken or offer beef every other day?
*****
When starting a new dog, I absolutely start by adding small amounts of
the new meat to existing meals so that over the course of a few an
increasingly larger amount of New Meat is fed with an appropriately
smaller amount of Old Meat. I think it's counterproductive to dash
into new meats when dashing isn't needed. When the New Meat becomes
standard fare, then I feed it as part of the diet, however that is
served.

OTOH, others hopscotch from new meat to new meat without problems, so
there's no question this is a "know your dog" issue!
Chris O

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11. Bloodthirsty, Please Advise!! (was: worming)
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:59 am ((PDT))

I am glad you wrote this.
I read that before I switched to raw because i have pet Guinea pigs but this
morning two of the dogs had torn open the cage (ripped the bars apart) &
killed 3 of them.
Can others PLEASE tell me you have pet rodents WITH your dogs & no
problems? I've had these piggies a year & this has NOT been a problem.
If it is the problem (raw feeding) I will have to go back to k***le.
I need some reassurring words here, these were my pets!
There's nothing like having to chase my Dane pup around the yard to get my
pet piggie whose head is half eaten!
Trina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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12. Coaxing to gnaw bone
Posted by: "alicia.fagan" alicia.fagan@yahoo.com alicia.fagan
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:59 am ((PDT))

Anyone have suggestions for getting a dog new to raw to eat off the
bone? This is the first week I've been trying raw with my Lhasa apso.
She likes the meat, but can only eat it out of the bowl; does not know
how to tear the meat off the bone. She'll lick it or take it out of my
hand, walk a few feet, and drop it. Strange, because she loves to gnaw
her cooked, hollow bones. I am worried that she is not getting the
calcium (and i do not have a grinder). I know i should give her time,
but any ideas would be greatly appreciated!

Alicia

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