Feed Pets Raw Food: Nov 12, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12271

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Dog breed abbreviations
From: miensasis
1b. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
From: Yasuko herron
1c. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
From: Marcella Burgess
1d. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
From: Anntiga@aol.com
1e. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
From: cmhausrath
1f. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
From: steph.sorensen
1g. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
From: Doguefan@aol.com
1h. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
From: Anntiga@aol.com
1i. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
From: ginny wilken

2a. Re: Throwing Up Bone?
From: ginny wilken

3a. Re: is this turkey ok to feed???
From: mariasmom2001

4. Lamb Head Question
From: christyb

5a. Fowl
From: Yasuko herron

6a. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
From: spricketysprock
6b. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
From: mariasmom2001
6c. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
From: Yasuko herron
6d. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
From: darkstardog
6e. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
From: carnesbill
6f. Whole raw feeders
From: Caren OConnor

7. ADMIN:DOG ABBREVIATIONS
From: GWB

8a. Update on Frankie!
From: deerajska
8b. Re: Update on Frankie!
From: cspisto@aol.com

9a. Re: Duplicates/Re: Throwing Up Bone?
From: Giselle

10. FW: [rawcat] Re: bones
From: Alexandra de Guzman

11. FW: New to the list- and question PLEASE
From: Alexandra de Guzman

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Dog breed abbreviations
Posted by: "miensasis" kpmnlm@patmedia.net miensasis
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:52 am ((PST))

I was wondering if a list exists somewhere that links the different dog
breeds with their abbreviations. For instance, I've seen GSD several
times and figured out it was a german sheperd dog...but more recently
I've seen BC and haven't a clue what that is. I've checked the "Files"
for this group and didn't see one posted. Its just helpful sometimes
to be able to decipher the breed in posts because it gives an idea of
the size and weight of the dog being referenced and makes it easier to
relate the info to our own dogs. If there is a ready-access list,
great. If not, you could e-mail me the ones you know. I'd certainly
be willing to compile such a list from those e-mails and share with the
list. I'd think it would be especially helpful for newbies like me. I
figure I can't be the only one who is lost sometimes...LOL.

Nancy

Messages in this topic (9)
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1b. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:25 am ((PST))

>I've seen BC and haven't a clue what that is

I am guessing Boarder Collies???
I think PWD is portugese water Dog,I believe.
And doxie is dachsfund,I think.

I do not know about my breed abbreviation... could be PWC???? because pembroke welsh corgi???

Others,I know of not breed are

IMO:In my opinion
FYI;For your information

As you be on this list and keep reading,and ask when you could not understand,you will lean more.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (9)
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1c. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
Posted by: "Marcella Burgess" proudfootkennels@sympatico.ca marciongrass
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:25 am ((PST))

I don't know all the abbreviations but here are a couple of them
a.. GSD German Shepherd
b.. OEM Old English Mastiff
c.. BC Border Collie
d.. SAB South African Boerboel
e.. IS Irish Setter
f.. ES English Setter
g.. RC Rough Coated Collie
Then again... not sure if these are in fact correct, just what "I" know them to be....

Marcella

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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1d. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
Posted by: "Anntiga@aol.com" Anntiga@aol.com anntiga
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:02 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 11/12/2007 10:52:42 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
kpmnlm@patmedia.net writes:

the different dog
breeds with their abbreviations
Good idea!

PWD stands for Portuguese Water Dog!

Ann and Norman (PWD)
San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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1e. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:14 pm ((PST))

"miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:

> I was wondering if a list exists somewhere that links the different
dog
> breeds with their abbreviations.

I've never looked for a list, b/c google has never let me down. Do
something like "BC dog breed" whenever you get stumped, and it'll let
you know (through the results it returns) that BC = border collie,
PWC = pembroke welsh corgi (yes, Yassy, you were right), GSP = german
shorthaired pointer -- et cetera.

Not only does google know all that, but I just looked and did find a
couple lists, most notably

http://stason.org/TULARC/animals/dogs/acronym-list-faq/019-Breed-
acronyms.html and

http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/lists/acronym-list.html#breed

And there are bound to be more.

-- sandy (googling madly) & griffin (is a google edible?)

Messages in this topic (9)
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1f. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:21 pm ((PST))

I can fill in a few:

AST - American Staffordshire Terrier
APBT - American Pit Bull Terrier
ABT - American Bull Terrier
JRT - Jack Russell Terror - oops! I mean Terrier

As for the rest, I'm not real sure...but I'm sure someone on this
list knows more!

-Steph
Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey (the kitty)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Anntiga@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/12/2007 10:52:42 A.M. Pacific Standard
Time,
> kpmnlm@... writes:
>
> the different dog
> breeds with their abbreviations
> Good idea!
>
>
> PWD stands for Portuguese Water Dog!
>
> Ann and Norman (PWD)
> San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at

http://www.aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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1g. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
Posted by: "Doguefan@aol.com" Doguefan@aol.com knoxkennels
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:58 pm ((PST))

DDB=Dogue de Bordeaux, also known as a French mastiif or "Hooch dog"

Chelsea

-----Original Message-----
From: steph.sorensen <steph.sorensen@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 12:15 pm
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Dog breed abbreviations

I can fill in a few:

AST - American Staffordshire Terrier
APBT - American Pit Bull Terrier
ABT - American Bull Terrier
JRT - Jack Russell Terror - oops! I mean Terrier

As for the rest, I'm not real sure...but I'm sure someone on this
list knows more!

-Steph
Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey (the kitty)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Anntiga@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/12/2007 10:52:42 A.M. Pacific Standard
Time,
> kpmnlm@... writes:
>
> the different dog
> breeds with their abbreviations
> Good idea!
>
>
> PWD stands for Portuguese Water Dog!
>
> Ann and Norman (PWD)
> San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at

http://www.aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

1h. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
Posted by: "Anntiga@aol.com" Anntiga@aol.com anntiga
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:58 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 11/12/2007 12:21:08 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
steph.sorensen@yahoo.com writes:

JRT - Jack Russell Terror - oops! I mean Terrier

Someone somewhere once called terriers "Terrierists." I thought that was
cute. I love terriers by the way.

Ann and Norman (PWD)
San Francisco, CA, USA

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

1i. Re: Dog breed abbreviations
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:19 pm ((PST))

AST - American Staffordshire Terrier, or Amstaff
SBT - Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or Staffie, or Stafford
BT - Bull Terrier (Spuds or the Target dog)
APBT - American Pit Bull Terrier
ABD - Ambull, or American Bulldog

JRT - Jack Russell Terrier, aka Parson Russell Terrier in the AKC
WHT - West Highland Terrier

ACD - Australian cattle dog, blue heeler
ASD - Australian Shepherd, Aussie
OES - Old English Sheepdog
PBGV - Petit Basset Griffon Vendeen

off the top of my head.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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2a. Re: Throwing Up Bone?
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:14 am ((PST))

On Nov 12, 2007, at 8:39 AM, tdifr62 wrote:

> My 11 Mo Old English Mastiff has been on raw since I got him from the
> breeder. Recently I purchased some VERY large Turkey Drums. The bones
> are big. He eats them no problem, but the next day he throws up a
> small amount of undigested bone, along with some grass. He does this
> every time he has the Turkey Drums. Is it OK to continue feeding him
> the Turkey Drums? The piece he is tossing up is the bottom of the
> Drum. It is rolled up in the grass. Almost as if the grass protects
> his throat from any sharp pieces of the bone. He digests all other
> bones from his other meals. The piece is about 1/2 - 1" in length.
> Tommy D
>

I count this as normal. He's certainly large enough to deal with
fragments that size! My guy does the same with turkey vertebrae and
shards of shanks, sometimes days after they were fed.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: is this turkey ok to feed???
Posted by: "mariasmom2001" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:21 am ((PST))

And if you believe that, I've got some ocean front property in
Kansas! :))

You might want to go back and read some of these messages from past
discussions. Unfortunately, these injections are not just "normal
saline". They can contain phosphates and other chemicals, sugar and
various flavor enhancers...and of course they don't tell you how much
salt.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/101792
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/129992
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/123081

Sandee

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Penny (Nickles) Parker"
<loverladymaggiemae@...> wrote:

> I feed my dogs and fosters chicken from Walmart. It is cheap and it
> has saline injected into it. That is the same stuff that they give
> your dog IV when it is sick, dehydrated, etc. In all my research, I
> have never found that normal saline will hurt a healthy dog. But
this
> is up to you.

Messages in this topic (7)
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4. Lamb Head Question
Posted by: "christyb" christyb@cox.net christyb14
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:24 am ((PST))

Hi,

I purchased a grass fed lamb and requested that it not be sheared.
They had to shear some for butchering purposes but some still has
it's wooly coat!

I did all this BEFORE I read here that feeding an unshorn lamb could
be dangerous so I have been removing it on pieces when necessary -
lovely task for a wimpy city gal!

One piece that I have not gotten to yet is the head and I fear that
it is unshorn - it is one thing to be pulling off the skin on a slab
of meat quite another to pulling if off when the poor thing is
staring back at me, I don't think I can do it to be honest.

If the head is unshorn would it be okay to feed or absolutely not or
go ahead but quite risky?

Thanks!!
Christy

Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Fowl
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:25 am ((PST))

Hi. Last Saturday was my grocery shopping day and,our grocerystore;Giant,had Fowl with $1.30/lb and,I got whole Fowl (6lb bird) for palette.

Since that day,we were sort of late to go shopping so,I cut-up bird yesterday.

My questions are..

1> Fowl is Gunia Fowl?? Bag said just "Fowl".

2>I usually give bits of wahtever I am cutting to palette,just about thumb nail size.
I gave 2 thumb nail sized bits of Fowl afternoon before dinner,and we played with ball.
she woke me up in themiddle of night for potty andshe had gooey poo.

Everything she gott except bits of Fowl was old protins;things that she torelate very well on already.

She was exploring outside while playing ball and it is possible she ate something I did not notice andthat may have caused poo prob.

Is it possible that tiny piece of Fowl (not organ;in fact the bird did not have pouch of gizzard etc inside thecavaty)could give poo problems after 10 hours later??? Or something she had while playing after 8 hours?? It is hard to believe it was dinner;sardine with chicken feet.Shehas fed this combo now andthen and no prob before....

Anyway,after dosed with probiotic,she did round cute poo on walk today and she seems fine.

I thoght that Fowl was score for me but scraching my head thinking what caused this poo problems.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (7)
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6a. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
Posted by: "spricketysprock" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:02 pm ((PST))

Are they comparing between raw meat and kibble? An easy way is to look
at the percentages of protein which are on the labels of every bag of
kibble. They usually range from 20-30%. Dehydrated meat is used in
kibble, which is actually extremely high in protein because all the
water is taken out. This is termed meat meal (sometimes this is used
as a marketing tool, claiming that chicken meal is better quality than
whole chicken because it is higher in protein.) To prevent too high of
protein, grain is used in the rest of processing. Evo has no grain and
the protein is something like 40%, which can be bad for aging or very
large breeds.

If you look at the protein content on packaged raw foods, it's
substantially lower because of the other components in the whole meat,
such as water, bones, etc. In Nature's Variety Beef, for example, the
protein is only 13% despite being 95% meat.

Sorry if I'm reiterating old news, thought I'd put in my 2 cents from
working at a pet store!

Jess & Toby

> > Does anyone here have a link to a website that shows the nutrional
> > content of raw meat. I'm on a general dog website and want
> > evidence to show that meat is not 100% protein as a few of the
> > members there are insisting it is.
>

Messages in this topic (13)
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6b. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
Posted by: "mariasmom2001" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:06 pm ((PST))

Here ya go, Evie....

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
Some examples:
100g beef chuck
19% protein/62% water

100g pork shoulder
17% protein/62% water

100g chicken
18% protein/66% water

100g domestic rabbit
20% protein/73% water

Sandee

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Evie" <archie.willow@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone here have a link to a website that shows the nutrional
> content of raw meat. I'm on a general dog website and want evidence
to
> show that meat is not 100% protein as a few of the members there are
> insisting it is.

Messages in this topic (13)
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6c. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:29 pm ((PST))

Hi.go to www.nutritiondata.com

It tells you everything from calcium,phosphorus,Vitamins,Omega 3,Omega 6 etc etc for each item you like to look at.And it tells moisture % in food too.

you are right. Meat does not have 100 protins but it has other nutrition value too.

yassy

ps;remember that it is hard to look up something like neck meat..

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Messages in this topic (13)
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6d. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
Posted by: "darkstardog" darkstardog@charter.net darkstardog
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:00 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Evie" <archie.willow@...> wrote:
>
> I'm on a general dog website and want evidence to
> show that meat is not 100% protein as a few of the members there are
> insisting it is. (Doing my best to spread the word!) They are
>mostly homecooked diet feeders aware of the evils of kibble.
>

Raw meat is not 100% protein because of its water content but also
because of its fat content.

But it seems like they probably had some point to make beyond asking
for the simple value of the percent protein in a piece of raw meat.
When they claimed raw meat was 100% protein, you might think about
what points they were trying to make, what foods they were comparing
the raw diet to, and why. Maybe they were making unjustified negative
assumptions about protein in the diet.

A raw diet definitely might have more protein in a dog's daily intake
than a homecooked diet if the homecooked diet was partly or heavily
carbs. It would depend on the actual raw diet fed, and how much fat
was in the meat, versus the actual homecooked diet fed and its fat,
carb, and protein content.

Were they including or ignoring the water content? Recalculating to
ignore water content is mostly an issue when trying to compare raw
diets to commercial diets, and it seems like it wouldn't necessarily
be a factor in comparing a raw diet to a homecooked diet.

Beef chuck might have about 19% protein, 62% water, but also 18% fat.
So its non-water content by weight is about half protein, half fat.
Even if you ignore the water content, it is still far from 100%
protein. Chicken breast might have 23% protein, 75% water, 2% fat. So
its non-water content by weight is about 90% protein, about 10% fat.
Because it is so lean, the protein content is much closer to 100% if
you ignore water content.

Marty

Messages in this topic (13)
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6e. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:00 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "spricketysprock"
<jess.hamway@...> wrote:
>
> Dehydrated meat is used in
> kibble, which is actually extremely high in protein because all the
> water is taken out. This is termed meat meal ...

Jess,
Meat meal used in kibble is not dehydrated meat. Meat meal is what
is left of the carcass after human useable meat has been removed.
It is made up mostly of bone, heads, feet, etc. It is the refuse
from the human food processing plants. The greatest percentage of
it is bone. It is weighed as dry matter because bone just doesn't
hold water. Meat is mostly water and is weighed as wet matter. In
other words, meal is naturally dry and meat is naturally wet.

> To prevent too high of protein, grain is used in the rest
> of processing.

Grain is used for one reason only. It is super cheap compared to
meat.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (13)
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6f. Whole raw feeders
Posted by: "Caren OConnor" cavkist@yahoo.com cavkist
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:41 pm ((PST))

Hope someone more experienced with rawfeeding will know the answer to this. I apologize in advance if the answer can be found in the archives, as I didn't check there first.

When I feed whole prey, exclusively rabbit to date, my dog always goes for the head first and consumes the prey in that direction, head, then body. Everything I ever read about animals taking down prey said that the animal goes for the gut and intestines first. My question,
Why does my boy always start at the head and eat that first?

Thanks, just curious.
Caren O'Connor
Nansemond Cavaliers

---------------------------------
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

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Messages in this topic (13)
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7. ADMIN:DOG ABBREVIATIONS
Posted by: "GWB" chiksika@comcast.net kioqua
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:00 pm ((PST))

Some posts on this have been allowed but from now on PLEASE, take this
to RawChat!!!

Rawchat@yahoogroups.com

No more mails will be approved.

Please and thank you,

Gerry Brierley-mod guy

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Update on Frankie!
Posted by: "deerajska" d.rajska@gmail.com deerajska
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:43 pm ((PST))

Hi everyone,

My 7.5 week-old Cairn/Westie terrier pup, Frankie, has been home since
Friday, and since so many of you here on the list were so wonderfully
supportive in helping me prepare for his arrival - I thought I'd post a
message to let you all know how he's doing...

In a word: wonderfully!!!

Unfortunately, he was off to a very conventional start. The breeder had
him on a corn-based ki**le. His entire little body had a nasty smell
that would linger on your hand if you touched him, he had horrible
breath, gas, and watery discharge from his left eye. The breeder said
he would likely inherit his daddy's (Cairn) rough coat, because he was
anything but soft to the touch.

Of course, we ditched the Poison Pebbles before we even got home. We
started on a diet of fresh quail, half a bird per serving. I also added
raw egg, mixed with digestive enzymes to ease his transition. I'm happy
to report, we enountered *no* digestive upset.

Clearly, anyone who has ever made the argument that 'dogs have been
domesticated for so long they are nothing like wolves" has never tried
to feed real food to a pup. From hs very first enoucounter with real
food - my little boy immediately knew exactly what to do with it. He
dragged it to his favourite spot, pushed down on it with both forepaws,
and tugged, and crunched, and chewed... And picked it up and shook, and
pounced, and squealed with joy. And when he'd had enough - he waited
until I wasn't looking, and found a hidey-spot for his leftovers in the
magazine rack!!!

Well, fast forward a couple of days, and his eye is perfect, his breath
is sweet, his body smells wonderful and - as for the comment that his
coast would be rough - when you touch him now he feels less like a
Cairn/Westie cross and more like a silk/cashmere cross!!!

He also quickly learned that the refrigerator is the world's source of
yumminess, so every time the door opens - a ball of black fluff comes
bounding across the apartment to stick his little nose in there, and
stand up and press his little tummy against the veggie crisper to gaze
lovingly up at the tray of quail :) When I take it out, he jumps and
squeals and bounces and runs to his eating spot. He's gotten so good at
it that now he can devour the whole half a quail in under 15 minutes -
so I have to watch him carefully because leftovers are at risk of being
crammed into the corners of the bookshelf :)

Anyhow - thanks everyone!!!

Dee & Frankie

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: Update on Frankie!
Posted by: "cspisto@aol.com" cspisto@aol.com spistochris
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:13 pm ((PST))

Hi Dee,

I have 2, 6-year-old Goldens now transitioning from conventional commercial food to Bones and Raw Food.? Where did you find/purchase digestive enzymes and what do I look for when buying?

So glad to hear Frankie is doing well now!

Thanks.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: deerajska <d.rajska@gmail.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 1:35 pm
Subject: [rawfeeding] Update on Frankie!

Hi everyone,

My 7.5 week-old Cairn/Westie terrier pup, Frankie, has been home since
Friday, and since so many of you here on the list were so wonderfully
supportive in helping me prepare for his arrival - I thought I'd post a
message to let you all know how he's doing...

In a word: wonderfully!!!

Unfortunately, he was off to a very conventional start. The breeder had
him on a corn-based ki**le. His entire little body had a nasty smell
that would linger on your hand if you touched him, he had horrible
breath, gas, and watery discharge from his left eye. The breeder said
he would likely inherit his daddy's (Cairn) rough coat, because he was
anything but soft to the touch.

Of course, we ditched the Poison Pebbles before we even got home. We
started on a diet of fresh quail, half a bird per serving. I also added
raw egg, mixed with digestive enzymes to ease his transition. I'm happy
to report, we enountered *no* digestive upset.

Clearly, anyone who has ever made the argument that 'dogs have been
domesticated for so long they are nothing like wolves" has never tried
to feed real food to a pup. From hs very first enoucounter with real
food - my little boy immediately knew exactly what to do with it. He
dragged it to his favourite spot, pushed down on it with both forepaws,
and tugged, and crunched, and chewed... And picked it up and shook, and
pounced, and squealed with joy. And when he'd had enough - he waited
until I wasn't looking, and found a hidey-spot for his leftovers in the
magazine rack!!!

Well, fast forward a couple of days, and his eye is perfect, his breath
is sweet, his body smells wonderful and - as for the comment that his
coast would be rough - when you touch him now he feels less like a
Cairn/Westie cross and more like a silk/cashmere cross!!!

He also quickly learned that the refrigerator is the world's source of
yumminess, so every time the door opens - a ball of black fluff comes
bounding across the apartment to stick his little nose in there, and
stand up and press his little tummy against the veggie crisper to gaze
lovingly up at the tray of quail :) When I take it out, he jumps and
squeals and bounces and runs to his eating spot. He's gotten so good at
it that now he can devour the whole half a quail in under 15 minutes -
so I have to watch him carefully because leftovers are at risk of being
crammed into the corners of the bookshelf :)

Anyhow - thanks everyone!!!

Dee & Frankie

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: Duplicates/Re: Throwing Up Bone?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:12 pm ((PST))

Hi, Chris!
I've been getting some dupes, some from raw feeding, some from
raw chat. Some are days old.
None specifically from you.
*shrug*
I think Yahoo!s been boozin' agin.
TC
Giselle

On Nov 12, 2007 1:06 PM, costrowski75 <Chriso75@aol.com> wrote:

> Please excuse the bad manners of my computer. Or perhaps it's Yahoo
> that is acting badly. Either way, I am sending double posts and dang
> if I know why. Sorry.
> Chris O
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10. FW: [rawcat] Re: bones
Posted by: "Alexandra de Guzman" degoonacoon@earthlink.net degoonacoon
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:14 pm ((PST))

------ Forwarded Message
From: Alexandra de Guzman <degoonacoon@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:43:40 -0800
To: <rawcat@yahoogroups.com>
Conversation: [rawcat] Re: bones
Subject: Re: [rawcat] Re: bones

Ok so skin and all? On the chicken say? Now no feathers? Or do you guys just
get the whole bird and cur up chunks with the skina and all? Should I not be
concerned that some of my little ones might not be able to chew up the tough
skin? Thanks Alex
> Nope, smash away. Anything smallish is great - rabbit, quail, cornish
> hen, mice, etc. all good. Duck ribs are particularly flexible/easy,
> but I've known cats who could put paid to pork ribs with astonishing
> effeciency... And you give raw pork ribs? Man that would be the one thing that
I have programmed to worry about???? Alex
>
> Casey
>
>
>
>
>
> On this list, our conversations are around the cat being a carnivore.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

------ End of Forwarded Message

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11. FW: New to the list- and question PLEASE
Posted by: "Alexandra de Guzman" degoonacoon@earthlink.net degoonacoon
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:14 pm ((PST))

------ Forwarded Message
From: Alexandra de Guzman <degoonacoon@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 11:29:51 -0800
To: <rawcat@yahoogroups.com>
Conversation: New to the list- and question PLEASE
Subject: New to the list- and question PLEASE

Hi- I am a Maine coon breeder who has been raw feeding..is that the polite
way to say?..for years now and give no dry.
Even those that are raw based but dry..I have seen an increase in dental
problems in my case at way too young an age. My older folks seem to be OK..I
have based my diet on those with and without bones at CatNutrition.Org..but
I have been grinding the chicken.Now I see that it would be more beneficial
and also help with the dental disease that I am seeing, if I just whack some
chicken bones with meat still attached ie chicken necks.. thighs or turkey
necks... back bones of raw turkey etc...!! You guys don't put anything else
in your diets? No taurine Omega 3's etc? I would be very interested in the
different views on the subject... This is a concern of mine and something
that I really have not seen before in my younger cats!! My kittens are
already and always have been on a natural/ and /or raw diet. I find some new
parents are way reluctant to feed this way. So hence I use Halo Spot Stew
also at times or make my own chicken cooked though just in case they refuse
to continue this good diet..Any and all input would be appreciated..I have
been looking at the old files etc as I do not want to bore all of you
old-timers with my questions...
Thank you Alex

------ End of Forwarded Message

Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12270

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
From: Casey Post
1b. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
From: Greta Hill
1c. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
From: carnesbill
1d. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
From: gevan1a
1e. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
From: Andrea
1f. Free turkey half - Washington DC area
From: Shelly

2a. Re: is this turkey ok to feed???
From: carnesbill
2b. Re: is this turkey ok to feed???
From: emil smolensky
2c. Re: is this turkey ok to feed???
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker
2d. Re: is this turkey ok to feed???
From: costrowski75
2e. Re: is this turkey ok to feed???
From: costrowski75
2f. Re: is this turkey ok to feed???
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
From: eyed_blue

4a. Re: Caught my dog with a joint
From: costrowski75
4b. Re: Caught my dog with a joint
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker

5a. ANYONE NEAR GRIFFIN, GA? Free meat..
From: Donna
5b. Re: ANYONE NEAR GRIFFIN, GA? Free meat..
From: cmhausrath
5c. Re: ANYONE NEAR GRIFFIN, GA? Free meat..
From: MORGAN LEWIS
5d. Re: ANYONE NEAR GRIFFIN, GA? Free meat..
From: Donna

6a. Throwing Up Bone?
From: tdifr62
6b. Re: Throwing Up Bone?
From: Andrea
6c. Re: Throwing Up Bone?
From: costrowski75
6d. Re: Throwing Up Bone?
From: costrowski75
6e. Duplicates/Re: Throwing Up Bone?
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: deer chest carcus
From: Tina Berry

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:40 am ((PST))

> I'm on a general dog website and want evidence to
> show that meat is not 100% protein as a few of the members there are
> insisting it is.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

Casey

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
Posted by: "Greta Hill" GretaHill@aol.com sunstate23
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:44 am ((PST))

Type in what you want to look up, like "raw chicken" at this site:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

And this site lists an analysis of their green tripe products.

http://www.greentripe.com/

HTH

Greta

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:44 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Evie" <archie.willow@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone here have a link to a website that shows the nutrional
> content of raw meat.

The USDA has a website at

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

When entering search criteria be sure to use the word "raw" like raw
chicken or raw beef etc.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
Posted by: "gevan1a" gevans@sycomtech.com gevan1a
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:57 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <mailto:rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com> ,
"Evie" <archie.willow@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone here have a link to a website that shows the nutrional
> content of raw meat.

This is a good one.

http://www.nutritiondata.com/ <http://www.nutritiondata.com/>

-George

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1e. Re: Nutritional content of raw meat
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:01 am ((PST))

Here's the one that I use.
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

The protein content issue comes up every now and then around here. If
you look at raw food "as fed" it is very low in protein, since most of
the food is actually water content. If you consider the food on a "dry
matter" basis the protein content jumps quite a bit. Regardless of how
you calculate the protein content, it boils down to the fact that raw
protein is high quality easily digested protein.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Evie" <archie.willow@...> wrote:

> Does anyone here have a link to a website that shows the nutrional
> content of raw meat. I'm on a general dog website and want
> evidence to show that meat is not 100% protein as a few of the
> members there are insisting it is.

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1f. Free turkey half - Washington DC area
Posted by: "Shelly" StuartLittle@comcast.net stuartjeanlittle
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:09 am ((PST))

Occasionally I get free or drastically reduced priced meat from the farmer
from whom I get all my food. He vacuum packs everything and freezes it. If
it looses it's vacuum, he can't sell it to people anymore so he sends it for
my dogs. He sends whatever he has so I can't be picky, but my dogs don't
like turkey. It's never been thawed out, just lost the vacuum so it may have
some freezer burn (fine for humans as well, just most humans don't like
freezer burn). My dogs don't mind freezer burn, they just don't like turkey.
This is a large half turkey, split right down the middle, organic, free
range, all that... email me if interested, I need to make room in my freezer
for the whole beef we're getting next month.

Thanks,

Shelly

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: is this turkey ok to feed???
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:44 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, MustBLuvSpaniels@... wrote:
>
> Is this turkey good to feed to my dogs?

Yes

> What does Minimally processed mean?

It actually means nothing. It's a marketing term to make it sound
attractive.

> They are frozen, so If I thaw them enough to chop them up,
> is it safe to refreeze them and feed later?

Yes

> small brag. My Raw fed Puppy won his his 1st points at a
> show this weekend.

Great! :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: is this turkey ok to feed???
Posted by: "emil smolensky" esmolensky@yahoo.com esmolensky
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:05 am ((PST))

I bought the same ones I think and they have 8% turkey broth solution. I wash it before I hand it to my dog to get some of the broth off. My dog has no problem with it. It really just depends on how your dog handles it.
E & Reagan

----- Original Message ----
From: "MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com" <MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:48:09 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] is this turkey ok to feed???

in our local Stop and shop flyer. they have shady brook farms turkeys on

sale for $.59 a pound. I looked up the description on the company's web site.

this is what it said.

Fresh Whole Turkey

Product Description

Shady Brook Farms® Fresh Whole Turkey is all-natural, minimally processed

with no additives or preservatives.

Is this turkey good to feed to my dogs? What does Minimally processed mean?

They are frozen, so If I thaw them enough to chop them up, is it safe to

refreeze them and feed later? Thanks Lisa

PS small brag. My Raw fed Puppy won his his 1st points at a show this

weekend.

************ ********* ********* ******** See what's new at http://www.aol. com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: is this turkey ok to feed???
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:26 am ((PST))

Minimally processed usually means that they have the head, feathers,
feet and "guts" removed. I think that these turkeys would be
great...and that is a good price.
There are "purists" and "non-purists" in this group. You just haved to
sort out the info and do what works for you.
I feed my dogs and fosters chicken from Walmart. It is cheap and it
has saline injected into it. That is the same stuff that they give
your dog IV when it is sick, dehydrated, etc. In all my research, I
have never found that normal saline will hurt a healthy dog. But this
is up to you. You can go totally organic and only feed free range, non
vaccinated, etc animals. Or you can do like some if the rest of us
do. Scavenger for cheap stuff so you can splurge on something when it
is on sale. And speaking of on sale. The day after Thanksgiving most
stores mark down the price of the turkeys dramatically. I got some
last year for 29 cents/pound!
Penny & The Menagerie

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Re: is this turkey ok to feed???
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:27 am ((PST))

emil smolensky <esmolensky@...> wrote:
>
> I bought the same ones I think and they have 8% turkey broth
solution. I wash it before I hand it to my dog to get some of the
broth off. My dog has no problem with it. It really just depends on
how your dog handles it.
> E & Reagan
*****
First off, please pretty please with species appropriate condiments
on it remember to trim your posts! There is no need to include the
entire original post and there is no need to send back all Yahoo
stuff below that. Below my signature you will find all the stuff
that rarely needs to be there. Thanks.

Second, enhancements are injected not slathered on the skin, so
rinsing is doing nothing. If your dog is doing will with the
enhanced chicken you fed, it's because it's not bothered by the
saline solution or other chemicals, not because you rinsed it off.

It's possible that the "butterball" kind of turkey has a butter-like
substance (I shudder to think) laarded under the skin for "yum, yum,
slow basting" but that's a different insult than the usual
enhancements.

Chris O

>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "MustBLuvSpaniels@..." <MustBLuvSpaniels@...>
> To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:48:09 AM
> Subject: [rawfeeding] is this turkey ok to feed???
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> in our local Stop and shop flyer. they have shady brook
farms turkeys on
>
> sale for $.59 a pound. I looked up the description on the company's
web site.
>
> this is what it said.
>
>
>
>
>
> Fresh Whole Turkey
>
> Product Description
>
> Shady Brook Farms® Fresh Whole Turkey is all-natural, minimally
processed
>
> with no additives or preservatives.
>
> Is this turkey good to feed to my dogs? What does Minimally
processed mean?
>
> They are frozen, so If I thaw them enough to chop them up, is it
safe to
>
> refreeze them and feed later? Thanks Lisa
>
> PS small brag. My Raw fed Puppy won his his 1st points at a show
this
>
> weekend.
>
>
>
> ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's new at

http://www.aol. com
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

2e. Re: is this turkey ok to feed???
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:27 am ((PST))

emil smolensky <esmolensky@...> wrote:
>
> I bought the same ones I think and they have 8% turkey broth
solution. I wash it before I hand it to my dog to get some of the
broth off. My dog has no problem with it. It really just depends on
how your dog handles it.
> E & Reagan
*****
First off, please pretty please with species appropriate condiments
on it remember to trim your posts! There is no need to include the
entire original post and there is no need to send back all Yahoo
stuff below that. Below my signature you will find all the stuff
that rarely needs to be there. Thanks.

Second, enhancements are injected not slathered on the skin, so
rinsing is doing nothing. If your dog is doing will with the
enhanced chicken you fed, it's because it's not bothered by the
saline solution or other chemicals, not because you rinsed it off.

It's possible that the "butterball" kind of turkey has a butter-like
substance (I shudder to think) laarded under the skin for "yum, yum,
slow basting" but that's a different insult than the usual
enhancements.

Chris O

>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "MustBLuvSpaniels@..." <MustBLuvSpaniels@...>
> To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:48:09 AM
> Subject: [rawfeeding] is this turkey ok to feed???
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> in our local Stop and shop flyer. they have shady brook
farms turkeys on
>
> sale for $.59 a pound. I looked up the description on the company's
web site.
>
> this is what it said.
>
>
>
>
>
> Fresh Whole Turkey
>
> Product Description
>
> Shady Brook Farms® Fresh Whole Turkey is all-natural, minimally
processed
>
> with no additives or preservatives.
>
> Is this turkey good to feed to my dogs? What does Minimally
processed mean?
>
> They are frozen, so If I thaw them enough to chop them up, is it
safe to
>
> refreeze them and feed later? Thanks Lisa
>
> PS small brag. My Raw fed Puppy won his his 1st points at a show
this
>
> weekend.
>
>
>
> ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's new at

http://www.aol. com
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

2f. Re: is this turkey ok to feed???
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:41 am ((PST))

MustBLuvSpaniels@... wrote:
> Is this turkey good to feed to my dogs?
*****
If you can't find a shred of evidence that the birds have been
injected to compensate for lack of flavor or moisture, I'd say yes
and buy more. If you find that little mousetype legal statement that
says the birds have indeed been injected, then buy one and see how it
goes. I choose not to feed injected turkey but you get to make your
own decisions on this. Fortunately, you can change you mind one way
or the other, as often as you need to.

What doe Minimally processed
*****
It means that the bird has been prepared for market using as few
intrusive steps as possible, which is the best we can hope for from
commercially available poultry.

> They are frozen, so If I thaw them enough to chop them up, is it
safe to
> refreeze them and feed later?
*****
Absolutely.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: New to raw - made mistakes - need help
Posted by: "eyed_blue" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:05 am ((PST))

Hi, I find that raw 'green' tripe from cow or lamb is very gentle on
the tummy in small amounts throughout the day, following a fast day.
This seems to work for mine anyway (but be warned of the smell from it
in your house!!!) If you do this it only takes that fast day and the
small meals to sort them out, presuming its not a health issue (which
in your case its not)

When I started feeding raw, my pup was already eating the tripe with
his usual meal so just added chicken. I introduced a new protein
every three days and this seemed fine, I only gave a tiny bit liver
when introduced but if I would be using cooked liver as training
treats then I dont bother giving more as a raw food but will give a
wee bit kidney instead that week.

You will find you soon settle into the way of it and the best thing is
you really get to 'know your dog' in the process. Raw feeding is the
best thing I have done for my dogs health.

Natalie

Messages in this topic (12)
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________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Caught my dog with a joint
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:15 am ((PST))

JustTom <general.woundwort@...> wrote:
> Does everyone else tend to
> let their venison have some time in the freezer before
> giving it, or do some give it fresh?
>
*****
I use the freezer as a storage facility. When I get fresh venison I
feed some then freeze the rest for later use. I would be inclined to
let the girl proceed.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Caught my dog with a joint
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:26 am ((PST))

tom
I would let her just go at it. She is obviously doing just fine with
what she has eaten so why spoil a good thing?
I also feed fresh and then freeze the rest when we get any thing like
deer, turkey, etc. I have small dogs and a turkey is a 2 day meal for
them ;)
Penny & The Menagerie

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. ANYONE NEAR GRIFFIN, GA? Free meat..
Posted by: "Donna" donnad2998@yahoo.com donnad2998
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:26 am ((PST))

Free meat. Processed ground deer. About 10 packeages. He is a hunter
and will have more possibly. Contact me off site Donnad2998@yahoo.com
if you are interested.
Donna

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: ANYONE NEAR GRIFFIN, GA? Free meat..
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:47 am ((PST))

"Donna" <donnad2998@...> wrote:

> Free meat. Processed ground deer. About 10 packeages. He is a hunter
> and will have more possibly.

Yes! I'm near Griffin! He's lying on the floor right by my feet!
Yay, free meat!!

Oh, no, wait. Drat. I don't guess this means MY Griffin. If it did,
we'd surely be in business. He does love him some venison.

Oh well.

-- sandy & griffin (in Va, not Ga)

Messages in this topic (4)
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5c. Re: ANYONE NEAR GRIFFIN, GA? Free meat..
Posted by: "MORGAN LEWIS" shadowland22000@yahoo.com shadowland22000
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:58 am ((PST))

I'm in Loganville ,Ga. Morgan
cmhausrath <cmhausrath@yahoo.com> wrote: "Donna" <donnad2998@...> wrote:

> Free meat. Processed ground deer. About 10 packeages. He is a hunter
> and will have more possibly.

Yes! I'm near Griffin! He's lying on the floor right by my feet!
Yay, free meat!!

Oh, no, wait. Drat. I don't guess this means MY Griffin. If it did,
we'd surely be in business. He does love him some venison.

Oh well.

-- sandy & griffin (in Va, not Ga)

Morgan and His Angels
Precious, OFA
Princess, CGC, TDI, GSDCA Health Award

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Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

5d. Re: ANYONE NEAR GRIFFIN, GA? Free meat..
Posted by: "Donna" donnad2998@yahoo.com donnad2998
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:32 am ((PST))

It has been taken. If I hear of anymore I will let you know.
Donna

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Donna" <donnad2998@...> wrote:
>
> Free meat. Processed ground deer. About 10 packeages. He is a hunter
> and will have more possibly. Contact me off site Donnad2998@...
> if you are interested.
> Donna
>

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Throwing Up Bone?
Posted by: "tdifr62" tdifraia@comcast.net tdifr62
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:41 am ((PST))

My 11 Mo Old English Mastiff has been on raw since I got him from the
breeder. Recently I purchased some VERY large Turkey Drums. The bones
are big. He eats them no problem, but the next day he throws up a
small amount of undigested bone, along with some grass. He does this
every time he has the Turkey Drums. Is it OK to continue feeding him
the Turkey Drums? The piece he is tossing up is the bottom of the
Drum. It is rolled up in the grass. Almost as if the grass protects
his throat from any sharp pieces of the bone. He digests all other
bones from his other meals. The piece is about 1/2 - 1" in length.
Tommy D

Messages in this topic (5)
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6b. Re: Throwing Up Bone?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:39 am ((PST))

I imagine it will go away as time goes on, it did with my dogs. You
might also add some meat to the meal, that helped with mine as well.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tdifr62" <tdifraia@...> wrote:

> the next day he throws up a small amount of undigested bone, along
> with some grass. He does this every time he has the Turkey Drums. Is
> it OK to continue feeding him the Turkey Drums?

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: Throwing Up Bone?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:02 am ((PST))

"tdifr62" <tdifraia@...> wrote:>
> My 11 Mo Old English Mastiff has been on raw since I got him from the
> breeder.
*****
Eight months? Nine?

He eats them no problem, but the next day he throws up a
> small amount of undigested bone, along with some grass. He does this
> every time he has the Turkey Drums. Is it OK to continue feeding him
> the Turkey Drums?
*****
Throwing up bits of undigested bone is how a dog gets rid of the
irritation. NOT throwing them up can be a more difficult issue. I
suspect this will fade with experience, and the grass is probably eaten
initate the vomiting process. This too is not a bad thing. Messy
maybe, but not inappropriate.

The piece he is tossing up is the bottom of the
> Drum. It is rolled up in the grass. Almost as if the grass protects
> his throat from any sharp pieces of the bone
*****
It may well but I doubt his intention is to protect his troat. Good
though that it works out that way. Another reason to assume there's
nothing to worry about here. If he consistenly horks the joint and it
consistently concerns you, cut the joint off before you feed the leg.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6d. Re: Throwing Up Bone?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:02 am ((PST))

"tdifr62" <tdifraia@...> wrote:>
> My 11 Mo Old English Mastiff has been on raw since I got him from the
> breeder.
*****
Eight months? Nine?

He eats them no problem, but the next day he throws up a
> small amount of undigested bone, along with some grass. He does this
> every time he has the Turkey Drums. Is it OK to continue feeding him
> the Turkey Drums?
*****
Throwing up bits of undigested bone is how a dog gets rid of the
irritation. NOT throwing them up can be a more difficult issue. I
suspect this will fade with experience, and the grass is probably eaten
initate the vomiting process. This too is not a bad thing. Messy
maybe, but not inappropriate.

The piece he is tossing up is the bottom of the
> Drum. It is rolled up in the grass. Almost as if the grass protects
> his throat from any sharp pieces of the bone
*****
It may well but I doubt his intention is to protect his troat. Good
though that it works out that way. Another reason to assume there's
nothing to worry about here. If he consistenly horks the joint and it
consistently concerns you, cut the joint off before you feed the leg.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6e. Duplicates/Re: Throwing Up Bone?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:06 am ((PST))

Please excuse the bad manners of my computer. Or perhaps it's Yahoo
that is acting badly. Either way, I am sending double posts and dang
if I know why. Sorry.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: deer chest carcus
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:08 am ((PST))

"Have a friend bringing me a chest carcus complete. sugestions please on
the best way to feed to 2 GSDs. Morgan"
-
For my bunch (all 80+ lbs) I cut the carcass in half width wise between the
ribs, if it's a huge deer I might be able to cut it into thirds and feed as
a whole meal if there is lots of meat left.
-
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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________________________________________________________________________

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12269

There are 13 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: How many times a day do you think adults dogs should eat?
From: carnesbill
1b. Re: How many times a day do you think adults dogs should eat?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

2a. Re: FIRST DEER
From: susrob061174
2b. Re: FIRST DEER
From: JustTom

3a. Re: Beginning - Deer and Other Questions
From: costrowski75

4a. High BUN and raw meat?
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: Organic or Non Organic
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: Is the raw honeymoon over??? LOL
From: linoleum5017
6b. Re: Is the raw honeymoon over??? LOL
From: miensasis

7. is this turkey ok to feed???
From: MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com

8a. Caught my dog with a joint
From: JustTom
8b. Re: Caught my dog with a joint
From: jennifer_hell

9. Nutritional content of raw meat
From: Evie

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: How many times a day do you think adults dogs should eat?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:02 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Roop <naps2003@...> wrote:
>
> It seems like our adult dogs are gaining weight, do you think
> I should cut the adult down to one feeding and keep the pups on two?

It's not the number of feedings but the amount of food that controls
weight. If you cut down to one meal and feed the same amount/day,
nothing will change. If you want them to lose weight you must feed
less/day.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: How many times a day do you think adults dogs should eat?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:03 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 11/11/2007 5:17:29 PM Pacific Standard Time,
naps2003@yahoo.com writes:

It seems like our adult dogs are gaining weight, do you think I should cut
the adult down to one feeding and keep the pups on two?

Kathy,

I've NEVER fed adult dogs (dogs over 1 year old) more often than once a day
unless they had health issues that required them to eat more often.

Since we've been feeding raw we've been feeding less often than that. We
found that the dogs can eat more and and lose weight if we feed larger meals
every other day rather than smaller meals every day.

We have an American Bulldog (8 years old) with mobility issues caused by an
accident she had as a puppy before she came to us. if she gains even a couple
lbs she has trouble walking and even when she's at her best she has trouble
running. If we feed her every day she has to eat less than 1/2 lb. Feeding
the way we do i can hand her a hunk of something that's anywhere from 1 lb to 2
lbs every other day and she keeps her girlish figure and is able to nearly
keep up with the pups.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: FIRST DEER
Posted by: "susrob061174" susrob061174@yahoo.com susrob061174
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:07 pm ((PST))

In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "feejeffrey" <feejeffrey@...wrote:
<<<Just wanted to know what all I can keep. Butchering myself.>>>

Congrats on the Deer!!!! Its so much easier when someone calls you to
ask if you want a deer. I get one every other day.

I'm sure I may be a little late in telling you what to keep if someone
has already chimed in, but just in case no one has the following I
would keep.

Heart, kidneys, liver, lungs, panceras (ms), any meat that you can get
off, the rump has the most meat. I keep the shoulders and the top part
of the legs, hips and femur part of the back legs and the ribs. If you
are worried about CWS, I would not keep the head, neck, back and tail.
When you cutting the meat from the bones, make sure you leave some
meat on the bones.

Good luck,

Susanne, Courtney and The Danes
www.streborsgreatdanes.com

Life is grand when you love a Dane. Have you licked your Dane today? :oP

If you dont know, ask. If you dont ask, wont know.

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: FIRST DEER
Posted by: "JustTom" general.woundwort@yahoo.com general.woundwort
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:42 am ((PST))

--- feejeffrey <feejeffrey@yahoo.com> wrote:

> just got my first deer from sheriff. Just wanted to
> know what all I can
> keep. Butchering myself.

I'm guessing you already know how to do it, but for
those who don't, this might be of some use:

http://cahe.nmsu.edu/pubs/_circulars/circ508.pdf

And this:
http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Butchering-Livestock-Game-Mettler/dp/0882663917/ref=pd_sim_b

tom

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Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
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3a. Re: Beginning - Deer and Other Questions
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:21 pm ((PST))

"jennifer_hell" <jenniferhell@...> wrote:
> Best join the RawCat group. And check out rawfedcats.org.
*****
There's nothing like a crowd of similarly cat-challenged rawfeeders for
support--moral and tactical. Yes, the rawcat list is recommended.

As far as I
> know cats prefer their meat very fresh,
*****
I suspect this is a myth begun and maintained by cats, although I am
sure there are some rawfeeders who find this works best. I don't have
many rawfed cats to my name (I'm only starting on number three) but
none of them--even cat number three--has been the least bit concerned
about the "very freshness" of its meat. In fact, they seem to mind
cold much more than old.

so it would probaby be best to
> freeze fresh chicken in portions instead of leaving the chicken in the
> frigde while feeding your way through it.
*****
Maybe yes, maybe no. Unless the cat is specifically against such a
supply, there's no reason not to feed through a bird.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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________________________________________________________________________

4a. High BUN and raw meat?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:38 pm ((PST))

"Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Here is the study.....
>
> http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/clients/antechNews/2003/jun03_02.htm
*****
Thank you for posting this link, Sandee. I was sure there was a way to
present the information without having to reprint the entire article.
I appreciate your taking the time to locate this.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (8)
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________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Organic or Non Organic
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:45 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Greta Hill" <GretaHill@...> wrote:
>
> Hold on there - it says Minimally Processed AND has 12% chicken broth
> in it? That's very misleading. I better double check all the fine
print
> on the labels.
>
> Thanks for the heads up.
*****
The Tyson chickens Winco sells and the SaveMart house brand are both
minimally processsed AND enhanced. FF and Sanderson Farms (FoodsCo)
are not.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Is the raw honeymoon over??? LOL
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:27 am ((PST))

Nancy,

If Riley is turning up his nose, I am inclined to think he is being
fed overmuch, perhaps? (don't know the wheaton wheight ideal)....
can you easily feel his ribs? If not, then try feeding less each
meal, but keep the meals fitting the 80%10%10% ratio, (over time.)

Rotsa Ruck,
Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:
>
>> I am approaching the two month mark of raw feeding my two
wheatens.
> (YEAH!!) Riley, always the picky and light eater, took to the raw
> chicken with gusto ...<snip>... today I fed him a bone-in chicken
breast with some additional boneless thigh meat and a smidge of
liver...and the little sucker looked disappointed.
> Nancy
>

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Is the raw honeymoon over??? LOL
Posted by: "miensasis" kpmnlm@patmedia.net miensasis
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:16 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "linoleum5017" <linoleum5017@...>
wrote:
>
> Nancy,
>
> If Riley is turning up his nose, I am inclined to think he is being
> fed overmuch, perhaps? (don't know the wheaton wheight ideal)....
> can you easily feel his ribs? If not, then try feeding less each
> meal, but keep the meals fitting the 80%10%10% ratio, (over time.)

Lynne...

At our vet visit a couple of weeks ago, the vet said Riley's weight
was ideal. He called him "very trim" and yes...we can feel all of
his ribs as well as his hip bones. Some time has passed since that
day and I'm certain now that Riley was simply trying to hold out for
something "better". We're just a few weeks into raw and started with
chicken-only meals. We had just started adding variety, but this day
we went back to the usual chicken and he was expecting something
else. We pretty much let him know that what we give is what he
gets...lol...so there hasn't been a repeat of this behavior from
him. He now eats the chicken and everything else with gusto!

Nancy

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7. is this turkey ok to feed???
Posted by: "MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com" MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com mustbluvspaniels
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:41 am ((PST))

in our local Stop and shop flyer. they have shady brook farms turkeys on
sale for $.59 a pound. I looked up the description on the company's web site.
this is what it said.

Fresh Whole Turkey
Product Description
Shady Brook Farms® Fresh Whole Turkey is all-natural, minimally processed
with no additives or preservatives.
Is this turkey good to feed to my dogs? What does Minimally processed mean?
They are frozen, so If I thaw them enough to chop them up, is it safe to
refreeze them and feed later? Thanks Lisa
PS small brag. My Raw fed Puppy won his his 1st points at a show this
weekend.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Caught my dog with a joint
Posted by: "JustTom" general.woundwort@yahoo.com general.woundwort
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:42 am ((PST))

HI,

I sent out a note a few days ago bragging about my dog
being a natural and how the chicken was no problem.
Much to my surprise, she stopped eating it on
Wednesday, and wouldn't do more than sniff it since.

Knew she wasn't starving, so figured she'd found a
treasure somewhere.

Went out the back door this morning, and sure enough,
there was a leg joint and portion of a shoulder of a
small deer. I guess hunting season came early for
somebody, though I don't understand why they wouldn't
have taken it. Meat on leg perfectly intact, but
skinless, like it was straight out of an anatomy
class, so she's working her way down.

My question: Even though she's obviously been working
on this since at least wednesday, I'm thinking I
should still wrap it up and freeze it for a few weeks
to be on the safe side? Does everyone else tend to
let their venison have some time in the freezer before
giving it, or do some give it fresh?

thanks,
tom

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Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: Caught my dog with a joint
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:09 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, JustTom <general.woundwort@...> wrote:
> Does everyone else tend to
> let their venison have some time in the freezer before
> giving it, or do some give it fresh?
>
I always get a lot at once, so I feed fresh for a few days and freeze
the rest.

Jennifer

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9. Nutritional content of raw meat
Posted by: "Evie" archie.willow@yahoo.co.uk archie.willow
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:09 am ((PST))

Hi,

Does anyone here have a link to a website that shows the nutrional
content of raw meat. I'm on a general dog website and want evidence to
show that meat is not 100% protein as a few of the members there are
insisting it is. (Doing my best to spread the word!) They are mostly
homecooked diet feeders aware of the evils of kibble.

Regards,
Evie

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

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Feed Pets Raw Food

Monday, November 12, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12271

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12270

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12269

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