Feed Pets Raw Food: Dec 19, 2007

Wednesday, December 19, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12399

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Moral support please!
From: adkjoe17
1b. Re: Moral support please!
From: Sarah
1c. Re: Moral support please!
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker
1d. Re: Moral support please!
From: Sherrel Leininger

2a. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
From: Dawn

3a. new to raw ... my picky eater
From: Amy T
3b. Re: new to raw ... my picky eater
From: Andrea
3c. Re: new to raw ... my picky eater
From: Lauren Funaiole

4a. blood in stools
From: juliarna
4b. Re: blood in stools
From: Chia
4c. Re: blood in stools
From: Tina Berry
4d. Re: blood in stools
From: Sandee Lee

5. Re: yucky liver
From: Sai Simonson

6a. Re: Relapse
From: Cathy

7.1. New to this list
From: lana_gorelov

8a. Re: Problems Fiinding a Variety of Meat
From: Brandi Bryant

9a. Hooray!
From: sltahoek9s
9b. Re: Hooray!
From: Giselle

10a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Scored!!! What do you think?
From: Heather

11a. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with dobe
From: Sherrel Leininger

12a. Pigs feet
From: thebestformyboys
12b. Re: Pigs feet
From: costrowski75

13a. Re: panting
From: Susan Fortune

14a. Where's the beef? coming from?
From: costrowski75

15a. Salmon
From: laurajean360

Messages
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1a. Re: Moral support please!
Posted by: "adkjoe17" j2dope17@yahoo.com adkjoe17
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:02 pm ((PST))

I just wanted to chime in and say that My dogs have never had a
problem with chicken untill I bought some cheap questionable looking
chicken from a store. I don't know if it was enhanced or what but it
didn't look tasty. It was a $1.09 for two large breasts so I couldn't
pass it up. My dogs both ate it at first, threw up 30 min later and
when I tried giving them the rest neither would eat it. My dogs will
eat ANYTHING to. So watch out because all chicken is not created
equal, I know thats what everyone has been telling you but just to
reassure you there is bad chicken.

Joe

Messages in this topic (10)
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1b. Re: Moral support please!
Posted by: "Sarah" hecarte@hotmail.com sarah_uk_2000_2001
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:03 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
> Some dogs have reactions to chicken that is enhanced in some way or
> another. One of mine gets itchy with chicken enhanced with broth
> solutions, but has no problem with minimally processed chicken or the
> stuff that is enhanced with saline. It's worth checking into.

As far as I know the chicken is just chicken - I don't know if raw
fresh chicken is enhanced in England, but I will ask at the supermarket.

I was thinking I'd go back to chicken for a little while - thanks for
that. I'll wait until tomorrow evening to give his tunny chance to
settle.

Thanks so much for your quick response.
Sarah (UK)

Messages in this topic (10)
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1c. Re: Moral support please!
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:18 pm ((PST))

Sarah,
This might be one of those times when it would be good to let his tummy
rest for a day. Don't feed him anything, but make sure he does get
enough water (make sure he pees). Sometimes if you have a rough few
days, that might help!
Merry Christmas,
Penny & The Menagerie

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: Moral support please!
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:32 pm ((PST))

You might want to just give him a day or so resting without food. Let his digestive system rest for a while. Then offer him something like skinless turkey breast.

Sherrel

He vomited on Sunday evening (he'd had beef heart in the morning, but
hadn't really wanted to eat much), I gave him chicken on Monday,
that's when he had the loose stools, but thinking about it, he was
loose before I fed him. He was fine the rest of Monday and Tuesday
then was sick again 3 times today. He had mackerel this morning,
threw it up and ate the vomit, then threw it up again and ate it
again. I gave him the chicken this afternoon which he threw up (but
we cleaned it up before he got chance to eat it).

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Messages in this topic (10)
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2a. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
Posted by: "Dawn" draine9543@gmail.com dawnsdogs2004
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:03 pm ((PST))

Ok....thank you everyone!

I think I better pass on the stomach stuff.
I can still get lots of other goodies. :)
Will let you all know how it works out for us.

~~Dawn~~

Messages in this topic (9)
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3a. new to raw ... my picky eater
Posted by: "Amy T" amypatriciatracy@gmail.com rosiesmomlovesrosie
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:18 pm ((PST))

Rosie, my shepherd / chow 40 1b year-old mix, has been on the diet for
two and half weeks now. I've been giving her a variety of meat
(chicken, beef, lamb), liver and organs, and fish (smelt, trout), and
her poops have been fine (though she's thrown up bile twice). Week one:
She totally dug her food, gobbled it up. Week two: picks at it, turns
her nose away, goes and lies far from her food bowl. Sometimes she'll
eat if I hand feed her ... I understand the "tough love" concept, but
will she ever truly love eating again? Will she eventually like her raw
diet?

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: new to raw ... my picky eater
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:49 pm ((PST))

Yes, she'll go back to loving her food. Once she gets the idea that
turning up her nose won't make something better appear, she'll go back
to enjoying what she gets. The key is not to fuss over her when she
does this. Just let her be and if she hasn't started eating in 15-20
minutes just matter of factly pick up the food and put it away until
the next day. No coaxing her, no hand feeding.

Don't worry, just be strong.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Amy T" <amypatriciatracy@...> wrote:

> Week one: She totally dug her food, gobbled it up. Week two: picks at
> it, turns her nose away, goes and lies far from her food bowl.
> Sometimes she'll eat if I hand feed her ... I understand the "tough
> love" concept, but will she ever truly love eating again? Will she
> eventually like her raw diet?

Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. Re: new to raw ... my picky eater
Posted by: "Lauren Funaiole" LFUNAIOL@SIMIVALLEY.ORG lfunaiol
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:08 pm ((PST))

Hi Amy,
This sounds sooo familiar! My pit bull terrier, Buster, was the same way when he started on raw. I remember posting to this list with the subject line: "Buster the Picky Pit Bull." He actually took a couple of MONTHS to completely come around. He always ate eventually, but would stare at me with big sad eyes before he would eat. Meanwhile, my other 2 dogs were happily chomping away at their meals. It has been 2.5 year of raw feeding now, and Buster LOVES his raw food as much as the other dogs. He just took longer to adjust. He doesn't like change of any sort anyway.

Hang in there, she'll come around.

Lauren Funaiole

>>> "Amy T" <amypatriciatracy@gmail.com> 12/19/2007 1:13 PM >>>

Rosie, my shepherd / chow 40 1b year-old mix, has been on the diet for
two and half weeks now. Week one: She totally dug her food, gobbled it up. Week two: picks at it, turns her nose away, goes and lies far from her food bowl. Sometimes she'll eat if I hand feed her ... I understand the "tough love" concept, but will she ever truly love eating again? Will she eventually like her raw diet? Recent Activity
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Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. blood in stools
Posted by: "juliarna" juliarna@yahoo.co.uk juliarna
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:23 pm ((PST))

> Could you please tell me why one of my dogs when having bones for
> several days has blood in his stools. When I stop the bones the blood
> goes.
>
> What else could I feed. If I keep him on meat and veg he needs such a
> lot of meat just to keep weight on him.

Juliarna

Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: blood in stools
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:37 pm ((PST))

### his body is adjusting or adapting to the digestion and elimination of
bones. You may want to offer us your sample feeding week or days and how
long you have been feeding raw. I'm sure you may have posted before, but
since there is such high traffic, we can quickly help you with the immediate
details.

My dog used to have a bit of blood in his stools in the first months after
I switched him to raw and it disappeared once his body got strong as it was
meant to. All it means if slight irritation in his intestines and although
it always looks scary, it is harmless and a simple diet of one protein
source for the first few weeks usually helps keep this minimal. Every dog
is different, however, and a younger dog usually has a slightly easier time
then an older one. But, as I said, each and every dog is unique but the
overall pattern is either someone feeding too much variety, too soon, OR,
straying from whole prey and delving off into too much bone.

Chia & Ricco
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Messages in this topic (4)
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4c. Re: blood in stools
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:38 pm ((PST))

"Could you please tell me why one of my dogs when having bones for several
days has blood in his stools. When I stop the bones the blood goes."

How much bone are you feeding him and what kind of bone? If he's new to
raw, his system may not be adjusted to digesting bone yet. You should be
feeding approximately 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (4)
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4d. Re: blood in stools
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:43 pm ((PST))

You most likely are feeding too much bone. What exactly have you been
feeding? Remember, the raw diet is mainly meat and fat, a little edible
bone and no veggies.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "juliarna" <juliarna@yahoo.co.uk>

Messages in this topic (4)
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5. Re: yucky liver
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:10 pm ((PST))

There is less and less interest in liver lately. This was chicken, but
beef has not been well received either this week. Maybe they are not
hungry enough? A bit ago I offered the liver, heart and gizzard from
their shared chicken. No way! So I stuffed a small piece down the
girl's throat and the boy said, OK, I can eat this and finished off the
heart and gizzard. Guess his appetite was fine as his half of the
chicken disappeared in ten minutes. Girl dog is guarding most of hers
on the patio.

I am supposing force feeding is a bad thing, but back in the "old days"
of supplements I did a lot of pill pushing. Glad those days are over.

Sai(who has not seen buffalo liver yet)
============

--- With the difficulties people have feeding liver, finding one they
will eat readily is a good thing. If there is variety elsewhere, I
think you can skimp on liver variety.

My liver adverse dog will ALWAYS eat buffalo liver. So, that is what
he gets.

--
*~~ SaiCzarina*

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: Relapse
Posted by: "Cathy" batcathy@sbcglobal.net batcathy2002
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:10 pm ((PST))

Thanks Giselle- I bought a whole chicken -organic- to boil up for her. I was thinking of about a cup of skimmed broth to add a couple of the SE caps to and syringe it to her. She will be put out but ...too bad. The caps I have are 400 mg...how much & how often do you think I should give it to her? Should i still give the probiotics also? Thought I could offer her some of the meat over the next couple days to see if she will eat.
Cathy

C Richmond
Battle Creek, MI

www.lesmarcresteds.com

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Messages in this topic (5)
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7.1. New to this list
Posted by: "lana_gorelov" lana_gorelov@yahoo.com lana_gorelov
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:18 pm ((PST))

Hello all,

I am new to this list and I am not feeding my dog raw just yet. Right
now I am in research mode, so that I can find out as much as possible
what is raw diet, how it works and if its going to benefit my dog in
his situation.

Another reason for joining this group is because my 2.5 year old BRT
has immune system problems, and I am afraid that he isn't going to
react to the raw diet quiet in the same way as healthy dogs.

So I was wondering if anyone on this list who feeds raw and had their
dog diagnosed with IMHA or any other types of immune system
dysfunction, would please share their experience? I would greatly
appreciate that.

Thank you so much,

Lana

Messages in this topic (44)
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8a. Re: Problems Fiinding a Variety of Meat
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:18 pm ((PST))

You're right I'm in the territory for beef - but it's expensive - very
expensive. And the hunter that said that would get me a deer has not yet
and probably won't...

What I have learned is that I watch for the meats to get marked down on
their expiration date... and load up! And I've learned that our local
slaughterhouse sells beef hearts for .99/lb - I'm going to see if she will
sell me the tripe as well. It's taking me awhile but I'm learning! And
I've found some great websites that can ship me stuff that I can't normally
get...like duck, bison, lamb, and rabbit etc....

So I'm excited - i'm anxious to make a big order and fill my freezer and I'm
going to go get my parents freezer that they said that I can have....

I'm making progress, just needed to be pointed in the right
direction....thank you so much!!!

Brandi

On 12/18/07, Susan Fortune <desperatelyseekingsusan@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Brandi:
>
> You are in great territory for:
> 1. Beef
> 2. Hunters
> ...not that your dog should eat the hunters, but the hunters can
> potentially provide you with meat.
>
> I hunt the supermarket ads, & also buy from a meat processor who travels
> up & down the state with dog-appropriate food. He has the interesting stuff.
>
> www.crestonvalleymeats.com
> He has buffalo bones, emu liver, rabbit, pig's feet, green tripe, organ
> blend & many other items. This California business doesn't help you except
> to know that raw feeding is pretty big, and you should be able to find some
> sources.
>
> If you're out in the tules, think of making a monthly trip to a
> slaughterhouse. A freezer from Craig's List makes that do-able!
>
> Susan Fortune
> Southern California
>
> "Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of
> battle."
>
> --
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>
>
>

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok

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Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Hooray!
Posted by: "sltahoek9s" crazy4k9@aol.com sltahoek9s
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:18 pm ((PST))

Just wanted to let everyone know how happy I am. Almost two months raw
now and for the first time in his life, my 4 year old GSD is eating
with gusto and begging for more! I can't say what a milestone this is
for us. He has been very thin his whole life and I have always had to
practically beg him to eat. I tried canned foods, goodies, etc and
nothing until this diet. The bigger the pieces, the more excited he
gets. So THANK YOU everyone for helping us get here. I feel better
about what i'm feeding everyday.

Tammy C

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: Hooray!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:50 pm ((PST))

^_^

Giselle

On Dec 19, 2007 6:27 PM, sltahoek9s <crazy4k9@aol.com> wrote:

> Just wanted to let everyone know how happy I am. Almost two months raw
> now and for the first time in his life, my 4 year old GSD is eating
> with gusto and begging for more! I can't say what a milestone this is
> for us. He has been very thin his whole life and I have always had to
> practically beg him to eat. I tried canned foods, goodies, etc and
> nothing until this diet. The bigger the pieces, the more excited he
> gets. So THANK YOU everyone for helping us get here. I feel better
> about what I'm feeding everyday.
>
> Tammy C
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Scored!!! What do you think?
Posted by: "Heather" newbeginnings06@gmail.com malignstar
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:18 pm ((PST))

The only beef I buy is ox tails from my local processing plant (all
cattle here are grass fed and on huge pastures not feed lots) and they
are $1.50/lb so it's RARE I buy any. If you want to score good deals,
go to a place that processes deer and ask for the ribs. The bone is
completely edible (my 20 lb beagle is able to eat it all) and has as
much meat on it as any other rib. This year (and I plan to go back in
a month or so as the end of the hunting season approaches) and get
more deer ribs so I'll be good for a year. I got 6-8 (I didn't count)
entire rib cages this year for.. $10 ("processing fee")! My dog will
eat on half a rib cage for about 10-12 days because each rib section
is around half a pound each, his total amount per day. I feed way more
venison that beef, which is healthier and cheaper too. Since the
scraps cannot be sold to the rendering plant due to the laws against
selling wild game (unless something changed and there's a way around
it) most places just throw it away and will GIVE it to you if you ask.
I figure that animal died so I'll take as much as I can for my dog so
it didn't die for a few steaks and it's head to be mounted on a wall.

Heather

Messages in this topic (8)
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11a. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with dobe
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:18 pm ((PST))

Hello fella dobe person

I have 2 dobes 1 4 year old and one 15 months, female, spayed, rescues. I am just starting on raw feeding. So I guess I don't qualify for "anybody with experience" but I applaud you for starting one so young. But you will have to get answers from the other experienced members.
Sherrel, Daisy and Lilly

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Messages in this topic (8)
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12a. Pigs feet
Posted by: "thebestformyboys" llb6984@comcast.net thebestformyboys
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:08 pm ((PST))

I've bought some split pigs feet at a grocery store nearby. Since we've
stopped feeding wreck beef bones I've been trying to find something for
the boys to occupy them while we go in the hot tub one or two evenings
a week. My husband has a fit when I give them whole turkeys or chickens
or pork shoulders so the pigs feet (that "look like something") he is
having a hard time with.:)) But he will relent if the experts here who
have been feeding whole raw for a while will give the okay for pigs
feet for a treat! We have two large golden retrievers who are not
gulpers and take their time with meals, the pigs feet are bigger than
any beef marrow bone they've had. I say let them enjoy (i've since
found whole ones). He's afraid (of what?? I don't know)

Laurie B
Port St. Lucie, FL

Messages in this topic (23)
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12b. Re: Pigs feet
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:13 pm ((PST))

"thebestformyboys" <llb6984@...> wrote:
>But he will relent if the experts here who
> have been feeding whole raw for a while will give the okay for pigs
> feet for a treat! We have two large golden retrievers who are not
> gulpers and take their time with meals, the pigs feet are bigger than
> any beef marrow bone they've had. I say let them enjoy (i've since
> found whole ones). He's afraid (of what?? I don't know)
*****
Pig's feet--especially whole, not sliced or quartered--are quite nice
for dogs that aren't stupid about their chomping. If your goldens are
sensible, give them each a pig foot and enjoy the hot tub.

And if your husband doesn't like looking at something that might have
been something, tell him not to watch. My husband is completely
grossed out, disgusted, appalled and otherwise revulsed by our dogs and
cats eating raw critters. But from day one he got the joke. He has
been a staunch supporter for over seven years now.

He just doesn't look.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (23)
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13a. Re: panting
Posted by: "Susan Fortune" desperatelyseekingsusan@cox.net cactususan
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:55 pm ((PST))

I was brief because this was addressed around Thanksgiving. My analogy is that after Thanksgiving dinner, we unbutton our pants & lay around on the couch--breathing shallowly! [We swear we'll never eat again...until the pies come out!]

I have seen this in my min pin & the cattle dog, and they're the gluttons of the pack. When they look like a bloated sack of protoplasm (a la Ren & Stimpy), they pant. A bloated stomach rises in the chest, puts pressure on the diaphragm & doesn't allow that muscular organ to draw down into the abdomen in order to inflate the lungs. So short fast breathing replaces slow deep breaths.

I don't think it's WHAT they eat, it's how MUCH! Just watch your creatures & see if that's it.

Susan Fortune
Southern California

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Messages in this topic (12)
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14a. Where's the beef? coming from?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:03 pm ((PST))

Sai Simonson <saiczarina@...> wrote:
When I
> inquired about where the meat came from he said, WA, MT, TX mostly
USA
> and some from Canada. Sounded encouraging to me.
> ...and yes, he gets his meat at the same Winco where I shop.
*****
The Winco near me used to be a value. Now it is much less so, and the
quality of meats (especially pork and chicken) has diminished over the
intervening six years. And "my" particular store is quite unconcerned
about discrepancies between the unit price and the label price.

Regardless of where the beef comes from, caveat emptor.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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15a. Salmon
Posted by: "laurajean360" laurajean101@hotmail.com laurajean360
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:29 pm ((PST))

Being in the Pacific Northwest I just found a great source for Salmon
heads, and backs. BUT I have heard that salmon can be poisonous to
dogs. Is it safe or not to feed my dogs this salmon and does it matter
how much, or if it is farmed or wild-caught?

Thanks In Advace-
LauraJean

Messages in this topic (23)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12398

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Does anyone here co-op?
From: Randy

2a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Pork- too fatty?
From: Sanibonn18@aol.com
2b. Re: {Raw Feeding} Pork- too fatty?
From: Andrea

3a. Re: fasting question -- Can we call it "not eating?"
From: krheintgen

4a. Re: What do you do while camping or on vacation?
From: Carrin

5a. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with dobe
From: Lauren Funaiole

6a. Re: Feeding Liver
From: krheintgen

7a. Re: Raw and Addison's disease
From: Joanne Thompson
7b. Re: Raw and Addison's disease
From: Felicia Kost
7c. Re: Raw and Addison's disease
From: Joanne Thompson
7d. Re: Raw and Addison's disease
From: Jennifer Scheytt
7e. Re: Raw and Addison's disease
From: Joanne Thompson

8a. ADMIN/Re: What do you do while camping or on vacation?
From: costrowski75

9a. Raw feeding w/ history of epilepsy/pancreatitis?
From: Emily Levenson
9b. Re: Raw feeding w/ history of epilepsy/pancreatitis?
From: Giselle

10a. Moral support please!
From: Sarah
10b. Re: Moral support please!
From: Andrea
10c. Re: Moral support please!
From: Sarah
10d. Re: Moral support please!
From: Sarah
10e. Re: Moral support please!
From: zcdz@aol.com
10f. Re: Moral support please!
From: Andrea

11a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Scored!!! What do you think?
From: Susan Fortune

12. Need Help with Irish Wolfhound
From: Karon L. Volk

13a. Re: panting
From: sheila

14. Where's the beef? coming from?
From: Sai Simonson

Messages
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1a. Re: Does anyone here co-op?
Posted by: "Randy" rrostie@gmail.com rjrostie
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:31 am ((PST))

You might want to post this to the Carnivore Feed Supplier list.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier
Co-ops is one of things they discuss there.

Randy R

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Carrie (Milton) Mularoni"
<kitkatsmama@...> wrote:
>
> I'm wondering if any of you have gotten together and co-oped on food?
> I'm in Northern Oakland County, Michigan. I have a great resource
> for a lot of meats, but the quantity is more that I can store.

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Pork- too fatty?
Posted by: "Sanibonn18@aol.com" Sanibonn18@aol.com sanikamjoshi
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:32 am ((PST))

Last night I gave my 80 + lb shepherd a big hunk of pork cushion meat along with some pork neck bone.? This isn't the first time he's had pork, and he's been eating raw for 6 months now with no problem with variety; however, last night, he threw up a large chunk of his dinner.? It almost looked like he didn't even chew it, swallowed it, and then vommited it.?

I'm not overly concerned, but I'm curious to know if it was the sudden reaction to the fatty pork cushion meat, which I gave more of than usual.?

Thanks for any insight!

Sanika & Shasta :)

________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (2)
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2b. Re: {Raw Feeding} Pork- too fatty?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:37 am ((PST))

> It almost looked like he didn't even chew it, swallowed it, and
> then vommited it.?

That's probably what happened. The hunk was probably around the size
he thinks doesn't require any additional chewing. Once the big chunk
hit his stomach it decided that it wasn't going to fly so out it came.
There are a couple of options to fix the problem, feed a bigger hunk so
he has to tear it apart, butterfly the hunk so it has more surface
area, or feed said hunk partially frozen. My newf pup is convinced
that he can fit any size hunk of organ down his throat since it is
squidgy. He doesn't have the same estimation when the hunk is frozen,
though, he chomps it up very politely.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: fasting question -- Can we call it "not eating?"
Posted by: "krheintgen" krheintgen@comcast.net krheintgen
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:33 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Nora Lenz" <nmlenz@...> wrote:
>
> Kathy,
> When you only feed your dog one day out of three, what you're doing
on
> the off days is fasting, regardless of what you call it.

**** Nora -- We will have to agree to disagree. Even though there
are days they do not eat, my dogs do not fast.

We will also have to agree to disagree as to whether these non-eating
days are of any benefit to the dog, except to keep them from getting
fat. I feed gorge meals for the benefit to my dogs of eating BIG
food. I do not believe, nor I have seen anything to make me change
my mind, that the non-eating days have any additional benefit (except
to moderate the intake of calories...)

I do not agree that is a need to "fast" a dog for "fasting" sake,
except perhaps if there are intestinal difficulties required the gut
to "rest."

>
> So, to summarize:
>
> Fasting affords a sick body the chance to regenerate and
rejuvenate.

*** I agree that this might be true, in some instances. However most
dogs are not sick and yet the benfits of "fasting" are often
discussed or inquired about on this list. As I have stated, in my
opinion, the benefits are from the big meals, not the so-
called "fast."

>>>If you're feeding irregularly and don't want to call the non-
feeding days "fasting" days, it doesn't change the underlying
principle.

**** I agree it is semantics. But if you read the posts leading up
to one you will see that "fast" is used with emotional baggage
attached. A dog that refused one meal is said to be "fasting" I do
not agree this is true. So, I do agree with your comments that some
people think the dog "has" to be fed daily. I do not however agree
that feeding daily is necessarily bad, if your dog does not need BIG
meals, for the reasons I have listed previously. If your dog can
benefit from large meals, they will necessarily have to have non-
eating days.

Many of your reasons for fasting are open for debate -- a debate I do
not feel the need to have. As I said, we can agree to disagree.

Kathy R.

Messages in this topic (14)
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4a. Re: What do you do while camping or on vacation?
Posted by: "Carrin" mntgrl_2000@yahoo.com mntgrl_2000
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:34 am ((PST))

Now that is dedication!

Carrin

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "adkjoe17" <j2dope17@...> wrote:
>
> Tina Berry wrote:
> >
> > Would I have to bring a separate cooler just for dog meat?
>
>
> Tina,
> I backpack with my dog for weeks at a time. In the past I used to
> just suck it up and carry the extra weight of raw food for her
which
> wasn't to bad because she can carry a lot of her own food in her
own
> pack. Recently since I got a new pack member who is to little to
> carry her own food I started dehydrating raw food for the girls
> while on the trail. Depending how long your going to be out you
can
> dehydrate 10lb of chicken and it will turn into 2-3lb (you can see
> where i'm going with this) You can either rehydrate by soaking in
> water or you can just feed it to them dehydrated. If you don't
have
> a dehydrator, for $90-$100 you can get a top grade one and it will
> soon pay for itself in a matter of weeks, mine shure did. One of
> the best investments I have ever made. If thats out of the
question
> your oven and a fan will do the trick. If your only car camping
> then bring an extra cooler.
>
> Joe
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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5a. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with dobe
Posted by: "Lauren Funaiole" LFUNAIOL@SIMIVALLEY.ORG lfunaiol
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:35 am ((PST))

Hello ____,
I have fed 2 dobermans on raw and haven't had any particular problems with them compared to my other 3 dogs of other breeds. I think that you definitely need to feed more meat, especially red meat to her. My dogs get whole chickens, bone-in pork roasts, lamb ribs, whole turkey, a variety of organs (chicken, pork, beef, and lamb), as well as LOTS of boneless beef and pork. Occasionally, they get green tripe. All of them do very well on this diet.

Lauren Funaiole

>>> "aquilter16" <aquilter16@hotmail.com> 12/18/2007 8:20 PM >>>

Hi, I have a 5 month old female dobe and would like to correspond with
anybody that has experience with raw feeding this breed. She has been
on chicken backs for 2 months and have run into a few instances of
frequent, loose, mucousy stool. She has been checked by vet and given
a clean bill of health, but of course the diet was cited as cause of
problems - I didn't try to defend myself, will look for another vet.
But anyway, will welcome hearing from anyone with experience with dobes
or similiar breed. Thanks.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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6a. Re: Feeding Liver
Posted by: "krheintgen" krheintgen@comcast.net krheintgen
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:36 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> > Do livers from different animals have different nutrients?
>
> A little, but not really enough to stress about.

--- With the difficulties people have feeding liver, finding one they
will eat readily is a good thing. If there is variety elsewhere, I
think you can skimp on liver variety.

My liver adverse dog will ALWAYS eat buffalo liver. So, that is what
he gets.

>
> > Also, do I need to feed stuff like tripe,lungs,trachea in order for
> > her body to be healthy?
>
> You want to have some "other" organs in the diet. Liver is the
> behemoth so that's the one you want to make sure you get. Everything
> else is good if you can get it. Mostly I use kidney, spleen, and
> sweetbreads as the "other" organs. Also eyeballs and such in the
head
> are considered other organs.

If your dogs eat whole uncleaned fish you can count this as some organ
variety and completeness. Feed whatever else you can get your hands
on, but I always feel better when they eat whole fish as other than
bunny heads they do not get too many other sources of brains and
eyeballs etc. Granted -- they are little brains and eyeballs, but oh
well! Depending on where you are you might be able to get misc. organ
mixes from some raw food suppliers...

On this note, can most medium to large dogs get to the brains of say a
pig head? I have not looked to closely, so I am not sure if they are
accessible without splitting the head... I only feed these in the
winter to avoid rotting heads laying about, but was wondering in I
should be bashing what is left?

Kathy R

Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. Re: Raw and Addison's disease
Posted by: "Joanne Thompson" tho0123@earthlink.net black_diamond_kennels
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:37 am ((PST))

Felicia,

Thanks for your response. I don't know if I can get this person to
switch to raw, but it would certainly make it easier to tell her that
someone has had success with it. Do you know if the IG was switched
after the diagnosis or was it on raw before?

Thanks again!

Joanne Thompson
Black Diamond Kennels
Working Giant Schnauzers
Bellvue, CO 80512

Felicia Kost wrote:
>
> Hi, I do not have personal exp. with Addisons disease but a friend of
> mine does. She had an italian greyhound diagnosed with Addisons and
> she decided to try raw. The vet was not happy to say the least.
> However after several months the dog was much improved and looked like
> a picture of health. She was also able to decrease all medications and
> even elimante some. She was not prey model fed but it was ground meat
> and RMB 's. I don't recall her feeding her any differently than the
> other dogs on raw. They were all happy with the transition, even the
> vet in the end.
> Felicia
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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7b. Re: Raw and Addison's disease
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:45 am ((PST))

The switch was after the diagnosis to help.

. Felicia,

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (7)
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7c. Re: Raw and Addison's disease
Posted by: "Joanne Thompson" tho0123@earthlink.net black_diamond_kennels
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:54 am ((PST))

Perfect. Thank you!

Joanne Thompson
Black Diamond Kennels
Working Giant Schnauzers
Bellvue, CO 80512

Felicia Kost wrote:
>
> The switch was after the diagnosis to help.
>
> . Felicia,
>
> ,_._,___

Messages in this topic (7)
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7d. Re: Raw and Addison's disease
Posted by: "Jennifer Scheytt" jscheytt@yahoo.com jscheytt
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:17 am ((PST))

HI Joanne,
I have switched my 3 bearides one of which has Addison's to Raw and they have all done great. My Addisonian beardie loves it and is doing very well with the switch. She was switched after her diagnosis. She has never eaten better. Before the switch the vet kept telling me she needed her teeth cleaned. I did not feel comfortable putting her under just to clean her teeth so I just kept trying to brush them, but never was able to get them really clean. After about 3-4 months on raw she was in the vets and he commented on how clean her teeth were I said we had switched to Raw and he supported my decision thankfully. So not only is she healthier on Raw it has saved me the money and stress of putting her under to get her teeth cleaned. As long as your friends dog is stable on her meds for Addison's there is no reason her dog wouldn't do great on raw.
Good luck
Jenny

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (7)
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7e. Re: Raw and Addison's disease
Posted by: "Joanne Thompson" tho0123@earthlink.net black_diamond_kennels
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:02 pm ((PST))

EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE REMEMBER TO TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.

Jenny,

Thank you for the reply.

Do you recommend the switch take place AFTER the meds are stable? She's
going in for a second opinion this week and, if confirmed, will start
meds at that time. I haven't talked to her yet about switching, but she
knows that I've been feeding raw for 12 years and will probably listen
(at least).

Thanks again!

Joanne Thompson
Black Diamond Kennels
Working Giant Schnauzers
Bellvue, CO 80512

Jennifer Scheytt wrote:
>
> HI Joanne,
> I have switched my 3 bearides one of which has Addison's to Raw and
> they have all done great. My Addisonian beardie loves it and is doing
> very well with the switch. She was switched after her diagnosis. She
> has never eaten better. Before the switch the vet kept telling me she
> needed her teeth cleaned. I did not feel comfortable putting her under
> just to clean her teeth so I just kept trying to brush them, but never
> was able to get them really clean. After about 3-4 months on raw she
> was in the vets and he commented on how clean her teeth were I said we
> had switched to Raw and he supported my decision thankfully. So not
> only is she healthier on Raw it has saved me the money and stress of
> putting her under to get her teeth cleaned. As long as your friends
> dog is stable on her meds for Addison's there is no reason her dog
> wouldn't do great on raw.
> Good luck
> Jenny
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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8a. ADMIN/Re: What do you do while camping or on vacation?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:42 am ((PST))

This is a useful and popular subject on the rawfeeding list. However,
the care and feeding of dehydrators--and the recipes for dehydrating
anything including camping food--is inappropiate for this list and is
OT. Please take ALL food processing discussions to RawChat.
Thank you.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (8)
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9a. Raw feeding w/ history of epilepsy/pancreatitis?
Posted by: "Emily Levenson" ruffian99@gmail.com ruffian9999
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:46 am ((PST))

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and hoping to switch my 4 year old GSP to a raw diet. She is
epileptic and on several meds. She also had a bad bout of pancreatitis about
a year ago. She continues to have loose stools periodically. If anyone has
experience with either of these issues, I'd love suggestions on how to
transition/modify the raw diet (if it is necessary to modify) for her.

Thanks,
Emily and Madison

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Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: Raw feeding w/ history of epilepsy/pancreatitis?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:34 am ((PST))

Hi, Emily!
The best way I found to tweak the raw diet for my pancreatic
dog was to feed him very low fat meats, very little skin, a little less bone
and smaller, more frequent meals.

Rabbit is lean, and so can be unenhanced turkey. Chicken, pork, heart and
gizzards with the fat and skin diligently trimmed off worked OK for him.

IME, feeding a species appropriate whole prey model diet can help you manage
both conditions by improving the dog's general health, and also decrease the
need for meds.

Some websites and links to archived messages you can print out and read;

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawlearning.com/supplementmyths.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

http://rawfeddogs.net/FAQlist

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*
TC and post when you have questions!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 19, 2007 12:45 PM, Emily Levenson <ruffian99@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm new here and hoping to switch my 4 year old GSP to a raw diet. She is
> epileptic and on several meds. She also had a bad bout of pancreatitis
> about
> a year ago. She continues to have loose stools periodically. If anyone has
> experience with either of these issues, I'd love suggestions on how to
> transition/modify the raw diet (if it is necessary to modify) for her.
>
> Thanks,
> Emily and Madison
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Moral support please!
Posted by: "Sarah" hecarte@hotmail.com sarah_uk_2000_2001
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:35 am ((PST))

I'm having a bit of a wobble today - my dog has been sick over the
weekend and had yeloow coloured loose stools. He seemed very quiet on
Sunday, but is back to his usual self today. His poop is also back to
normal. However, he can't even keep chicken down today.

We've been feeding raw for about 5 weeks now. We started with chicken
for the first two weeks, then introduced beef (brisket and heart), then
introduced whole mackerel in the 5th week. I didn't think I was adding
new proteins too quickly.

I'm not blaming his vomiting on the raw food yet, but I just wanted
some advice from you guys on what I can give him to eat. I gave him a
chicken quarter today and he threw it up after about 30 minutes. This
is the first problem we've had since starting raw.

Regards, Sarah (UK)

Messages in this topic (6)
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10b. Re: Moral support please!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:53 am ((PST))

My dogs have yellow colored stools when they eat chicken, so the
color isn't a big concern. Is it possible you are getting a
different brand of chicken or possibly chicken from a different store?

> We've been feeding raw for about 5 weeks now. We started with
> chicken for the first two weeks, then introduced beef (brisket and
> heart), then introduced whole mackerel in the 5th week. I didn't
> think I was adding new proteins too quickly.

For my dogs this wouldn't be too fast, but each dog is different.
When did the loose stools start? What was the last thing fed before
the problem occurred? The past few days did you go back to beef or
did he stabalize on chicken?

> I gave him a chicken quarter today and he threw it up after about
> 30 minutes.

It's possible he ate too quickly and/or it was too close to whole
when it went down. Did he show any interest in re-eating it? Sorry
I don't have any solutions, only questions. We'll get it figured
out, though.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (6)
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10c. Re: Moral support please!
Posted by: "Sarah" hecarte@hotmail.com sarah_uk_2000_2001
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:27 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> My dogs have yellow colored stools when they eat chicken, so the
> color isn't a big concern. Is it possible you are getting a
> different brand of chicken or possibly chicken from a different
store?

Yes, the chicken was from a different store, but each chicken he's
had has been from a different place. His poop was really yellow
though - much more than it had been.
>
> For my dogs this wouldn't be too fast, but each dog is different.
> When did the loose stools start? What was the last thing fed
before
> the problem occurred? The past few days did you go back to beef or
> did he stabalize on chicken?

Thanks for helping Andrea,
Sarah (UK)

Messages in this topic (6)
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10d. Re: Moral support please!
Posted by: "Sarah" hecarte@hotmail.com sarah_uk_2000_2001
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:28 am ((PST))

Forgot to say - the yellow poop was after he'd eaten beef heart, so I
was expecting dark poop (which he had before).

Messages in this topic (6)
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10e. Re: Moral support please!
Posted by: "zcdz@aol.com" zcdz@aol.com zziska
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:46 am ((PST))

FYI some chicken producers use dye in their chicken. The same producer can
sell under many different brands to different stores.

OTOH it just might be your guy has had enough chicken?

Ziska
www.ziskac.blogspot.com

**************************************
See AOL's top
rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

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10f. Re: Moral support please!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:33 pm ((PST))

> Yes, the chicken was from a different store, but each chicken he's
> had has been from a different place.

Some dogs have reactions to chicken that is enhanced in some way or
another. One of mine gets itchy with chicken enhanced with broth
solutions, but has no problem with minimally processed chicken or the
stuff that is enhanced with saline. It's worth checking into.

> He vomited on Sunday evening (he'd had beef heart in the morning,
> but hadn't really wanted to eat much), I gave him chicken on
> Monday, that's when he had the loose stools, but thinking about it,
> he was loose before I fed him.

It's possible the heart could be the culprit as well. If I were you
I'd determine what he has done best with historically and go back to
just that for now. You may want to let him go without food for a day
to let his gut settle as well.

> then was sick again 3 times today. He had mackerel this morning,
> threw it up and ate the vomit, then threw it up again and ate it
> again. I gave him the chicken this afternoon which he threw up
> (but we cleaned it up before he got chance to eat it).

That sounds like he might be eating too fast to me. Geiger was
notorious for scarfing his food only to vomit and re-eat in a half
hour or so. I started feeding him larger meals and/or partially
frozen ones to slow him down and the problem went away.

Hope that helps a little.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (6)
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11a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Scored!!! What do you think?
Posted by: "Susan Fortune" desperatelyseekingsusan@cox.net cactususan
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:16 am ((PST))

NOW you're cookin'!.....uh......now you're RAW HUNTING!

I think you've got it. I found that it's a process; you learn a bit at a time.

My experience with "prey" was hilarious. I got cow's legs form the meat supplier--whole, hairy, & lopped off at the knee. When I took them through the house to the backyard, my dogs looked like a cartoon, following the scent trail, entranced. I dumped the four legs in the yard for the four dogs.

It looked like an alien craft had plucked up the cow, leaving the legs behind. The dogs sniffed & sniffed...and sniffed. I encouraged them, shook the "prey" & praised...only one dog took to gnawing on them--that was the 13 year-old, 9 # min-pin! He even pushed the hide back with his snout to get at the good stuff.

Along with the min-pin, my pack includes a 92# lab, a 30# Aussie cattle dog & a 50# Akita/Aussie shepherd mix. The cattle dog eventually made a couple passes at one, but that was it.

I gave one to my raw-feeding son's pit bull...he was enchanted, but no deal. I even tried aging them. All the legs went in the trash.

I've also tried pig's feet. Once again, the min-pin led the way. The cattle dog devoured half of one, then the lab took over & finished it. 18 hours later, he horked up the hooves. But he's a newbie.

You can try making a slit in the prey to show your dog that there is something under all that fluff. Didn't work with mine.

SO. Don't order too much prey at first. Your dog might look at you like you're nuts, and then you have to figure out what to do with the stuff...

Good luck!

Susan
Southern California

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."

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Messages in this topic (7)
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12. Need Help with Irish Wolfhound
Posted by: "Karon L. Volk" karontara@msn.com karontaraiws
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:47 am ((PST))

Hey there, I've been feeding my hounds raw for many years now. Some take to it faster, as adults, than others, but they all usually love it. These days, all of mine are weaned onto the diet and I have never had a problem. There is a wolfhound specific list though that you can go to for more information and support. The link is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IW-BARF/join Good luck with your boy. Karon L. Volk KARONTARA IRISH WOLFHOUNDS

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Messages in this topic (1)
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13a. Re: panting
Posted by: "sheila" schatzee@comporium.net osborne_sheila
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:16 pm ((PST))

Can you elaborate on this? sheila
----- Original Message -----
From: Susan Fortune
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 10:56 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: panting

Too much food.

Susan
Southern California

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."

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14. Where's the beef? coming from?
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:16 pm ((PST))

Bill and Cris,
I found the corporate office of the major meat supplier of Costco,
Winco, etc only a couple blocks from my current residence. I thought I
would just order from him and as I might have mentioned to this group,
he laughed and wanted to know how many thousand pounds I'd like. When I
inquired about where the meat came from he said, WA, MT, TX mostly USA
and some from Canada. Sounded encouraging to me.
...and yes, he gets his meat at the same Winco where I shop.

Sai

>
> I have a serious question ... If I buy a 1/4 pounder at McDonalds or
a
> Whopper and Burger king, what is the difference in the meat from the
> ground beef I buy at the gocery store?
*****
You'd have to find out where McD gets its beef (used to be Argentina,
don't know now) and from whence comes the beef in the supermarket.

Beyond that, it's not how the beef starts out, it's how it ends up.

And it shouldn't matter on this list anyway. Unless the dog is eating
it. In which case the subject still oughtn't be here since Mickey D's
cooks (at least once) its ground beef.
Chris O
--
*~~ SaiCzarina*

Messages in this topic (1)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12397

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Need help with Irish Wolfhound and feeding raw
From: Andrea

2a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Scored!!! What do you think?
From: Brandi Bryant

3a. What do you do while camping or on vacation?
From: Carrin
3b. Re: What do you do while camping or on vacation?
From: Andrea
3c. Re: What do you do while camping or on vacation?
From: Tina Berry
3d. Re: What do you do while camping or on vacation?
From: adkjoe17
3e. Re: What do you do while camping or on vacation?
From: Kelly
3f. Re: What do you do while camping or on vacation?
From: krystal_brr

4a. weekly schedule
From: DebiC
4b. Re: weekly schedule
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
From: costrowski75
5b. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: fasting question
From: Nora Lenz

7a. Re: Need help with puppy
From: Randy
7b. Re: Need help with puppy
From: Tina Berry
7c. Re: Need help with puppy
From: Tina Berry
7d. Re: Need help with puppy
From: Lauren Funaiole

8a. Re: VERY interested in RAW diet for Mastiff.
From: Susan Fortune

9a. Re: panting
From: Susan Fortune

10a. Feeding Liver
From: Lynette
10b. Re: Feeding Liver
From: Andrea

11a. Raw and Addison's disease
From: Joanne Thompson
11b. Re: Raw and Addison's disease
From: Felicia Kost

12a. Re: Relapse
From: Giselle

13. duck heads and small stuff
From: Felicia Kost

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Need help with Irish Wolfhound and feeding raw
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:11 am ((PST))

The great thing about feeding a species appropriate diet is that all
breeds are part of the same species so there is no need to tweak the
diet for different breeds. At most you have to think about feeding
appropriately sized meals for each kind of dog (a newly switched Chi
may not be ready to tackle a pig's head).

Feed mostly meat, some bone, and some organ and you'll be doing fine.

Now as far as the IW not "wanting" what is served, tough. You put
down the day's meal and he eats it if he wants, if he doesn't it just
gets picked up and stashed for next day's feeding. No fussing, no
coaxing, just matter of factly. He'll soon get that you are the one
who decides the menu and he'll happily eat whatever you give him.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Kathryn Rowland"
<kerowland2005@...> wrote:

> I have a 4 1/2 irish wolfhound who I am trying to feed raw. I am
> concerned that I am missing the "basics" with him for his breed. I
> hope this makes sense. My newfoundlands have not skipped a beat in
> the transition but my IW is having difficulties. He only wants
> chicken backs or ground beef!

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Scored!!! What do you think?
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:15 am ((PST))

>>>The beef heart is reasonable. Check your supermarket sales.<<<

What I have been doing is going to Homeland just down the street and making
a mental notes of when their stuff is about to expire and then go in on that
day at 6 in the morning and hit the mark down prices....and they also
usually have cut up turkey's - lik turkey legs, breasts etc...for like
.99/lbs. I can get pork shoulders for $1.12/lb and I can get whole chicken
for .82/lbs at Wal Mart. So my basic dogs diet is whole chicken, turkey
legs, breats and an occasional pork should and pork chops (with out the
bones) - I can now add beef hearts to that diet - but aren't I feeding too
much bone???

Oh and question I'm going to be ordering from prey4pets - whole chicken with
feathers etc...on the description they said that they euthanize their
animals by CO2 - do they bleed them out after that...and when I get whole
birds can I keep them in the freezer and then let it thaw before giving them
to the dogs??? How do I encourage my dogs to go ahead and dig into a
chicken with feathers? I think my GSD puppy isn't going to have a problem
but my other 3 I think might look at me a little wierd.... any suggestions?

Thanks again for the suggestions...
Brandi

>
>

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok

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Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. What do you do while camping or on vacation?
Posted by: "Carrin" mntgrl_2000@yahoo.com mntgrl_2000
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:15 am ((PST))

This has been on my mind...brand new to raw feeding btw.

What do you all do while on vacation? We go camping a lot, and live
out of a cooler. How would I feed my dog raw on trips like this?
Would I have to bring a separate cooler just for dog meat?

Also, what about kenneling? Do most kennel operators react well to
feeding raw for their clients?

Thanks,
Carrin

Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: What do you do while camping or on vacation?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:50 am ((PST))

Camping is generally easy to do for short trips (a week or less).
First off you can feed the dogs big meals before heading out so they
don't need to eat the first day or so. Feed from a big hunk of food
that starts out frozen solid (pork shoulder or similar).

But the last time we went camping Geiger refused to eat much of the
food we brought after getting a taste of the fresh fish we caught.
He even ran into the creek and attempted to catch his own fish.

As far as kennels, some may give you a problem, yes. But many are
really accepting of "special diets" for the dogs. As long as you
make things really simple for them it shouldn't be a problem. If you
can't find any accepting kennels in the area, there is always a pet
sitter. Personally I'd rather have a pet sitter stay with my boys.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Carrin" <mntgrl_2000@...> wrote:

> What do you all do while on vacation? We go camping a lot, and
> live out of a cooler. How would I feed my dog raw on trips like
> this? Would I have to bring a separate cooler just for dog meat?
>
> Also, what about kenneling? Do most kennel operators react well to
> feeding raw for their clients?

Messages in this topic (6)
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3c. Re: What do you do while camping or on vacation?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:01 am ((PST))

Would I have to bring a separate cooler just for dog meat? Yes
Also, what about kenneling? Do most kennel operators react well to
feeding raw for their clients?

I gave our kennel pre-packaged frozen meals that they could feed frozen to
each dog.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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3d. Re: What do you do while camping or on vacation?
Posted by: "adkjoe17" j2dope17@yahoo.com adkjoe17
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:20 am ((PST))

Tina Berry wrote:
>
> Would I have to bring a separate cooler just for dog meat?

Tina,
I backpack with my dog for weeks at a time. In the past I used to
just suck it up and carry the extra weight of raw food for her which
wasn't to bad because she can carry a lot of her own food in her own
pack. Recently since I got a new pack member who is to little to
carry her own food I started dehydrating raw food for the girls
while on the trail. Depending how long your going to be out you can
dehydrate 10lb of chicken and it will turn into 2-3lb (you can see
where i'm going with this) You can either rehydrate by soaking in
water or you can just feed it to them dehydrated. If you don't have
a dehydrator, for $90-$100 you can get a top grade one and it will
soon pay for itself in a matter of weeks, mine shure did. One of
the best investments I have ever made. If thats out of the question
your oven and a fan will do the trick. If your only car camping
then bring an extra cooler.

Joe

Messages in this topic (6)
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3e. Re: What do you do while camping or on vacation?
Posted by: "Kelly" kelism@gmail.com vt_stuff
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:32 am ((PST))

On 12/19/07, Carrin <mntgrl_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Would I have to bring a separate cooler just for dog meat?

Well, my version of camping is probably very different than most, but...

When we go, we pack an extra cooler and bring everything frozen. This works
fine for a long weekend. But, we also have a little mini camper that has a
fridge in it. There isn't really a freezer, but if we throw frozen meat in
the "freezer" part of it, it will stay frozen for awhile. So, with a longer
trip, we usually use the fridge instead of a cooler.

But, we also aren't afraid to go to a grocery store mid-trip if we need to
and have been known to camp in a not too rural area and get take out, so
your mileage may vary.

--
Kelly

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Messages in this topic (6)
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3f. Re: What do you do while camping or on vacation?
Posted by: "krystal_brr" rkbarr@hughes.net krystal_brr
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:31 am ((PST))

This has been on my mind, too. We have been rawfeeding for a couple of
months, so we were already past our backpacking trips when we started.
But I was wondering what I am going to do next year. We are typically
gone for 3-4 days, and obviously do not take a cooler with us. I use a
lot of dehydrated stuff for us, so was wondering about figuring out the
same for dogs.

Anyone with some experience?

Krystal

Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. weekly schedule
Posted by: "DebiC" dcole6@satx.rr.com scarlet_debi
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:16 am ((PST))

I'd just like to run this by you all to see what you think.

I'm feeding my two JRTs (12 and 14 lbs) on a weekly schedule. It may vary a bit but this is the basic rotation.

1 chicken hind quarter
2 pork neck bones
3 organ meat (chicken liver, beef liver or kidney)
4 chicken hind quarter
5 hamburger or stewmeat
6 pork neck bones
7 beef heart

I can afford this and think it gives them some variety. What about fish? I found some frozen whole sardines in a bag but haven't fed fish before. Maybe instead of chicken so often the fish would be good in the mix?

Debi, 2 Jacks and an App

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Messages in this topic (2)
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4b. Re: weekly schedule
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:27 am ((PST))

"DebiC" <dcole6@...> wrote:
>>
> I'm feeding my two JRTs (12 and 14 lbs) on a weekly schedule. It
may vary a bit but this is the basic rotation.
*****
I expect when you are more comfortable with feeding raw and realize
your JRTs are not going to break you'll not worry so much about plans
and schedules and weekly feeding agendas. If this is what you need
now, that's fine. The virtue of a weekly schedule is there are no
suprises. The drawback of a weekly schedule is there are no
surprises.

Please do not allow your need for organization to blind you to lovely
unexpected opportunities. Keep your eyes open for lamb and goat.
Always consider seasonally cheap turkey. Look for pig and lamb heart
as well as beef; also consider pork liver and spleen. Definitely
feed more pork than just bony necks. Look for less expensive cuts of
beef. Consider whole chickens and feeding through them so as to vary
the eating challenges.

> 1 chicken hind quarter
> 2 pork neck bones
> 3 organ meat (chicken liver, beef liver or kidney)
> 4 chicken hind quarter
> 5 hamburger or stewmeat
> 6 pork neck bones
> 7 beef heart
*****
I recommend you remove a Pork Neck Bones Day and replace it with
meat; there's hardly a menu alive that won't benefit from adding
meat.

You might want to consider deleting the Organ Meat Day and instead
divvy up those organs into the other days' menus. Feeding a whole
meal of organs unless your dogs are already adjusted to the idea is
setting them up for the squirts. While not necessarily "bad", the
squirts are a PITA when you are trying to adjust to raw feeding. The
Organ Meat Day can become another meat day or you can feed a meaty
body part.

What about fish? I found some frozen whole sardines in a bag but
haven't fed fish before. Maybe instead of chicken so often the fish
would be good in the mix?
*****
Fish can definitely be a source of high quality protein variety, if
your dogs buy into the notion. Whole sardines would be great but you
should introduce them (and fish in general) gently. Overnight fish
explosions are not fun to wake up to. Been there, done that.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:50 am ((PST))

"Randy" <rrostie@...> wrote:>
> I looked up tripe on Wikipedia before I posted my original reply and
> it says "Tripe is also produced from sheep, goats, and pigs."
*****
I checked plus/minus 20 google entries and the prevailing description
is the stomach lining (also "part of the stomach", "a stomach") of a
ruminant. Specifics include "especially bovine", "ox".

Goat and sheep are mentioned as is pig, but citations for goat and
sheep outnumber pig and in virtually every case "ruminant" is the
operant term.

Given the skewed information Wiki offers on raw feeding, I'd say
sometimes it is advisable to check more than one reference.

For an acquirer of dog food, if price per pound and/or space is an
issue, pass on pig stomach. If it's free and storage space is no
object, take everything and let the dog decide what's useful.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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5b. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:01 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, m td <mtd885@...> wrote:>
> I believe they are called chitterlings pronounced
> 'chitlins'
*****
Chitlins are intestines. All cleaned up tidy and packed into big
bucket for deep frying and slathering with hot sauce. Chitlins like
grits are fabulous blank canvases on which to paint flavors.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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6a. Re: fasting question
Posted by: "Nora Lenz" nmlenz@speakeasy.net rawnora
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:00 am ((PST))

Hi Andrea,
Thanks for asking. Here are some links to informative articles about
fasting:

ttp://www.rawfoodexplained.com/introduction-to-fasting/
http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020127shelton.III/020127.toc.htm
http://www.gaianstudies.org/articles4.htm

There is lots more, if you need it. Happy reading. :)

Best wishes,
Nora

Messages in this topic (13)
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7a. Re: Need help with puppy
Posted by: "Randy" rrostie@gmail.com rjrostie
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:00 am ((PST))

She has some skin conditions (missing hair,) and I have to clean mucus
out of her eyes every day so I have high hopes a raw diet will help her.

Randy R

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cypressbunny" <cypressbunny@...>
> How much food pups need varies quite a bit, but 1.5# per day does seem
> like too much for an adult Llasa. Unless your Llasa is huge, less than
> a pound per day would be a more reasonable amount. I would skip a meal
> for both dogs and allow their systems to rest, and then resume with
> smaller amounts and a bit less fat. Then work back up to an appropriate
> amount without removing fat.
>
> --Carrie
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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7b. Re: Need help with puppy
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:01 am ((PST))

"I also feed our 15 year old Lhasa Apso 1.5 pounds of chicken a day, over
two meals and she is having similar problems."

I agree with the too much food; my 90lbers get 1.5 per day. Keep feeding
whole parts, just less of it.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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7c. Re: Need help with puppy
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:19 am ((PST))

"The Lhasa is 15 - 17 pounds, so does 1/2 pound or a little more each day
for at least the first week sound ok? One quarter is 8 to 10 ounces. I was
thinking I would continue to feed her twice a day for now."

Even at 17 lbs 2% of body weight is .34 lb and 3% is 1/2 lb which is a total
of 8oz per day. I wouldn't feed her any more than that - and once a day for
an adult is actually better - it gives their organs time to rest - 2xdaily
isn't necessary. You could give a treat for the second meal so she didn't
feel she was skipping a total meal if it makes you feel better.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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7d. Re: Need help with puppy
Posted by: "Lauren Funaiole" LFUNAIOL@SIMIVALLEY.ORG lfunaiol
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:19 am ((PST))

Randy,

Eight ounces for the Lhasa sounds about right. My 20-lb terrier eats about 8 ounces a day. However, splitting that into 2 meals a day would result in ridiculously small meals. Why bother? Your just making more work for yourself and asking for a choking issue.

Lauren Funaiole

>>> "Randy" <rrostie@gmail.com> 12/19/2007 7:28 AM >>>

The Lhasa is 15 - 17 pounds, so does 1/2 pound or a little more each
day for at least the first week sound ok? One quarter is 8 to 10 ounces.
I was thinking I would continue to feed her twice a day for now.
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Messages in this topic (9)
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8a. Re: VERY interested in RAW diet for Mastiff.
Posted by: "Susan Fortune" desperatelyseekingsusan@cox.net cactususan
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:01 am ((PST))

IMO, you can't afford not to feed raw. A $400. dental cleaning fee the vet quoted will go a long way to feed a dog if you spend it on the food (natural brushing), not the dental.

The $400 quoted was for my 13 year-old, 9# min-pin who used to have a nasty mouth.

Susan Fortune
Southern California

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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9a. Re: panting
Posted by: "Susan Fortune" desperatelyseekingsusan@cox.net cactususan
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:01 am ((PST))

Too much food.

Susan
Southern California

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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10a. Feeding Liver
Posted by: "Lynette" lraefried@sbcglobal.net cherrysmomma
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:19 am ((PST))

Do livers from different animals have different nutrients? Just
wondering if I find one liver that she likes(beef) if feeding only
that kind will be fine?

Also, do I need to feed stuff like tripe,lungs,trachea in order for
her body to be healthy?

Lynette

Messages in this topic (4)
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10b. Re: Feeding Liver
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:30 am ((PST))

> Do livers from different animals have different nutrients?

A little, but not really enough to stress about. You can check out the
specifics if at this website:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search
Just type in "raw liver" and you can compare nutrients in livers from
different animals.

> Also, do I need to feed stuff like tripe,lungs,trachea in order for
> her body to be healthy?

You want to have some "other" organs in the diet. Liver is the
behemoth so that's the one you want to make sure you get. Everything
else is good if you can get it. Mostly I use kidney, spleen, and
sweetbreads as the "other" organs. Also eyeballs and such in the head
are considered other organs.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (4)
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11a. Raw and Addison's disease
Posted by: "Joanne Thompson" tho0123@earthlink.net black_diamond_kennels
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:41 am ((PST))

Does anyone have experience in feeding their Addison's dog a raw diet or
switching them over once they've been diagnosed?

Joanne Thompson
Black Diamond Kennels
Working Giant Schnauzers
Bellvue, CO 80512

Messages in this topic (2)
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11b. Re: Raw and Addison's disease
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:30 am ((PST))

Hi, I do not have personal exp. with Addisons disease but a friend of mine does. She had an italian greyhound diagnosed with Addisons and she decided to try raw. The vet was not happy to say the least. However after several months the dog was much improved and looked like a picture of health. She was also able to decrease all medications and even elimante some. She was not prey model fed but it was ground meat and RMB 's. I don't recall her feeding her any differently than the other dogs on raw. They were all happy with the transition, even the vet in the end.
Felicia

. Does anyone have experience in feeding their Addison's dog a raw diet or
switching them over once they've been diagnosed?

Joanne Thompson
Black Diamond Kennels
Working Giant Schnauzers
Bellvue, CO 80512

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12a. Re: Relapse
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:08 am ((PST))

Hi, Cathy!
Sometimes with IBD/IBS there just isn't any reason that you
can put your finger on for a flare!

I was going to post essentially the same thing as Casey; 'cept I think since
the SEBP mixture isn't needed for mouth ulcers and is meant to go into the
stomach, you could just whisk up a thick liquid or even a paste and place it
in her mouth with a medicine dropper or your finger. Unless there's a
possibility that Dinky might like the SEBP syrup better? I'd use broth to
make some syrup, to try out.

I would definitely frequently offer plain ls/lf broth, either chicken or
beef - or made from any other type of meat she likes and tolerates well, if
you're going to cook it up yourself. I'd offer it slightly warmed, about
body temp, in tiny amounts.

OT - ^_^ Making a "Fasting" meat broth is a great use for those cut up
supermarket w/rec/k marrow bones or oxtails or chicken necks that are too
bony or small for a real meal. Don't add aromatics or seasonings like you
would for human broth, and skim the fat off after you remove the bones and
skin and it has set and cooled for a little while. You can even use a whole
chicken or turkey carcass after you have carved most of the meatymeat off,
and feed the meatymeat to the other dogs as boneless meals. If you make a
great big pot, you can freeze small amounts in plastic containers or baggies
for when you need broth in a hurry.

TC
Giselle

On Dec 19, 2007 8:42 AM, Casey Post <mikken@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> Cathy,
>
> So sorry to hear about Dink's setback!
>
> I have a similar situation with a little old cat who gets severely
> constipated (and it's bad - non-stop vomiting, unable to rest, in pain,
> etc. - very hard on a little old cat). Slippery elm is a huge help with
> her
> (along with subQ fluids), but she HATES it. So I make up a syrup of it
> (http://www.felinecrf.org/holistic_treatments.htm#SEB_syrup_recipe) and
> eyedropper it into her. No, she's not thrilled with the process, but it
> makes her feel so much better, it's worth it.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Casey
>
>

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13. duck heads and small stuff
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:29 am ((PST))

Hi, I was wondering if duck heads would be ok to feed a great dane. I know they are ideally to small but they were free and she is a very careful eater. I chews and crunches very well. Thought I would ask before I feed them. It is sometimes difficult finding large enough food for her mouth size, so where do I draw the line with things that are to small? She has never had any problems so far.
Thanks Felicia

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Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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