Feed Pets Raw Food

Tuesday, October 23, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12194

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
From: colliewoman

2a. RILEY'S FIRST VISIT TO VET SINCE STARTING RAW
From: miensasis

3a. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
From: Sandee Lee
3b. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
From: Denise Strother
3c. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
From: woofwoofgrrl
3d. Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)
3e. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
From: cynthiashankman
3f. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
From: Yasuko herron

4a. Re: Blood in poop
From: ginny wilken

5a. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
From: Giselle
5b. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
From: Denise Strother
5c. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)
5d. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
From: cdhaik

6a. Re: swallowing food whole
From: Denise Strother
6b. swallowing food whole
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)

7. Soft pork bones
From: doreenchui

8a. Re: Packaged raw diets
From: moemahood@aol.com
8b. Re: Packaged raw diets
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

9. Raw vs. Kibble
From: Dina

10. why is my dog eating her poo
From: maradethc

11.1. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
From: linoleum5017

12. Re: Bone & raw meat meals?
From: T Smith

13. Urine output from a puppy on Raw Diet.
From: naps2003

14. First time feeding raw and . . .
From: liebo1134

15a. Now what?
From: Monica


Messages
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1a. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
Posted by: "colliewoman" donna.frankland@ukonline.co.uk colliewoman
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:55 pm ((PDT))

in my house it IS considered a superfood. i have no idea what the
nutritional content of the stuff is though!
i do however know that if tikki is feeling a bit grim and has a dodgy
tummy, green tripe seems to sort him out.
i have heard that it is bang full of nice enzymes, apperently extra
enzymes can help a dog with hepatocutaneous syndrome. ergo tikki gets
lots of tripe :)
if i could afford to/could get enough to feed him it 3 times a week i
most certainly would.
an extra bonus is its the only thing i feed the dogs that the cats
dont try and steal ;)
love
donn

Messages in this topic (14)
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2a. RILEY'S FIRST VISIT TO VET SINCE STARTING RAW
Posted by: "miensasis" kpmnlm@patmedia.net miensasis
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:55 pm ((PDT))

Hi Everyone...

The recent posts here about how to handle the vet when feeding raw
were very timely and helpful. I've had my wheaten, Riley, on raw for
about a month now and was nervous about his upcoming vet visit and
how to handle the subject of diet if it came up (plus the fact that
they always ask for a stool sample...and Riley's always has little
bits of bone in it!). Well...it never came up because the vet was SO
IMPRESSED with him. He said Riley's teeth were immaculate, his body
size and weight was perfect, and that Riley gets a gold star for the
healthiest dog he has seen in awhile. He even asked if we had just
come from the groomer because Riley's coat was so shiny and soft.
(Riley is actually DUE for a bath tomorrow!) He said...I don't know
what you are doing with this guy....but whatever it is KEEP IT UP! I
just kept quiet, said THANK YOU, and we went on our way. Riley has
seen this vet several times since he was a pup, and he has NEVER,
EVER had this kind of praise for him! I left feeling so good about my
decision to feed raw and it was just extra proof of the power of this
very natural way of eating.

Nancy


Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:05 pm ((PDT))

I don't understand how a raw diet would be responsible for an enlarged lymph
node and low platelet count...or how that would translate into the need to
feed low fat? You need a vet who will look at the dog, not blame the diet!
Get a diagnosis and go from there.

Either way, the diet did not cause this. When you get a diagnosis you can
easily tweak a raw diet if necessary. Judging by what you are feeding, you
definitely need to add a bunch of red meat but we can deal with that when he
recovers.

Get a new vet if you have to, but find out what's wrong, treat the disease,
then get him back on raw as quickly as possible.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "nahteo1" <nahteo1@yahoo.com>

My 5 month mini-doxie began vomiting/ diarrhea last week and within two
days, took to my vet for a check. Long story short, they suspected
either a blockage or pancreatitis. Tests came back normal, x-
rays/ultrasound negative. One week and NO diagnosis. Another blood
test, another ultra-sound of the abdomen, then pancreatitis was finally
ruled out, but they found an enlarged lymph node, which was causing low
platelet count. Vet's making it sound that it's due to raw feeding??

My doxie's diet rotation consisted of turkey necks, chicken wings/
drummet, fish twice a week (full, raw sardine) and a piece of chicken
liver weekly. IF my doxie survives this unexplainable sickness,
they're suggesting completely OFF raw and switch to a low-fat kibble.

Messages in this topic (7)
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3b. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:37 pm ((PDT))

Your vet can't find out what is wrong with your dog and so he is
blaming your dog's diet. Your dog's diet does sound a little bone
heavy though. Raw diet doesn't cause enlarged lymph nodes. A dog needs
protein and fat, carbs are not required and that's all a kibble can
offer your dog. I'd tell your vet to find something else to suggest.
This is not your fault or your dog's diet. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "nahteo1" <nahteo1@...> wrote:
My 5 month mini-doxie began vomiting/ diarrhea last week and within
two days, took to my vet for a check. Long story short, they suspected
either a blockage or pancreatitis. Tests came back normal, x-
rays/ultrasound negative. One week and NO diagnosis. Another blood
test, another ultra-sound of the abdomen, then pancreatitis was
finally ruled out, but they found an enlarged lymph node, which was
causing low platelet count. Vet's making it sound that it's due to
raw feeding??
My doxie's diet rotation consisted of turkey necks, chicken wings/
drummet, fish twice a week (full, raw sardine) and a piece of chicken
liver weekly. IF my doxie survives this unexplainable sickness,
they're suggesting completely OFF raw and switch to a low-fat kibble.
My resolve w/ raw food is being tested and somehow, I feel responsible
for his being sick. What's going on??

Messages in this topic (7)
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3c. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:38 pm ((PDT))

What, pray tell, is the vets rationale for blaming an enlarged lymph
node on diet? I'm curious about the path of "logic" that brought him to
that conclusion.

There are MANY possible reasons for an enlarged lymph node - some very
serious, some not. I'd be pushing the vet for detailed explanations
about possible diagnosis, determining tests, and courses of treatment
for each. Keep in mind that sometimes, regardless of the cause, the
treatement would be the same - in which case, perhaps it's not worth the
money to continue doing tests. Once I had that info I'd be making sure
we have an agreed upon course of action based on a logical sequence of
events.

On the side I would also be researching everything the vet says plus
looking at the breed for common congenital defects - perhaps doxie's are
prone to lymph related issues? Has the dog had any vaccinations
recently? Perhaps it's reacting to one of those?

It's not the diet. When presented with cases that are hard to diagnose,
vets want to remove variables they don't understand - sadly diet is one
of those variables that they don't understand unless it's prescription
crap in a bag. So they immediately want to switch all sick dogs to that
so they can think they've eliminated a 'variable' that will "help
stabilize the dog". It's idiotic. Read the label on the low fat
prescription diets and you'll be disgusted. It's all carbs! Plus - I
would think that a low fat diet for a puppy would be detrimental since
they need higher calories to support growth....

You might want to include more meaty meat in the diet. It looks pretty
bone heavy, but that would have nothing to do with your baby's symptoms.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Christine

Here's the ingredients for the Science Diet low fat formula....
They have the worst ingredients...<shiver>

Ground Whole Grain Corn, Powdered Cellulose 15% (source of fiber),
Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Peanut Hulls 11% (source of
fiber), Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Mill Run, Dried Egg Product, Corn
Gluten Meal, Soybean Oil, Iron Oxide, Vitamin E Supplement, Potassium
Chloride, Iodized Salt, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of
vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin
A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement,
Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3
Supplement), Choline Chloride, preserved with BHT, BHA and Ethoxyquin,
Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate,
Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Carnitine,
Beta-carotene.

nahteo1 wrote:
>
>
> MODERATORS NOTE;SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!!
>
> My 5 month mini-doxie began vomiting/ diarrhea last week and within two
> days, took to my vet for a check. Long story short, they suspected
> either a blockage or pancreatitis. Tests came back normal, x-
> rays/ultrasound negative. One week and NO diagnosis. Another blood
> test, another ultra-sound of the abdomen, then pancreatitis was finally
> ruled out, but they found an enlarged lymph node, which was causing low
> platelet count. Vet's making it sound that it's due to raw feeding??
>
> My doxie's diet rotation consisted of turkey necks, chicken wings/
> drummet, fish twice a week (full, raw sardine) and a piece of chicken
> liver weekly. IF my doxie survives this unexplainable sickness,
> they're suggesting completely OFF raw and switch to a low-fat kibble.
>
> My resolve w/ raw food is being tested and somehow, I feel responsible
> for his being sick. What's going on??


Messages in this topic (7)
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3d. Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:53 pm ((PDT))


Are you sticking to the guidelines of 80% meat, 10% organs, and 10%
bone? The diet you described sounded heavy on bone, but perhaps that's
because I don't know what "drummet" is.


Carolyn J. Garnaas


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Messages in this topic (7)
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3e. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
Posted by: "cynthiashankman" ShankMa4@aol.com cynthiashankman
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:12 pm ((PDT))

>
> My doxie's diet rotation consisted of turkey necks, chicken wings/
> drummet, fish twice a week (full, raw sardine) and a piece of
chicken
> liver weekly. IF my doxie survives this unexplainable sickness,
> they're suggesting completely OFF raw and switch to a low-fat
kibble.


Doesn't the above rotation need more meaty meat???? All the meals
have bone in them!!?? Right?

It seems we don't talk enough about "just meaty meals" without bone.
We talk more about bone meals and it can be misleading to a
beginner. Especially when we talk about giving chicken with bone in
for one week -two weeks in the beginning. Then a beginner doesn't
realize about giving just meaty meals. And the name of the diet is
confusing too ... "Raw Meaty Bones".

80% meat; 10% bone; and 10% organ. That is not what the above
rotation consists of. Right?

Moderators: Could we please talk more about meaty meals, aka no bone
meals.

Thanks, because I know I was confused in the beginning too. I fed
too much bone. My dog had powder-like poops.

Cindi


Messages in this topic (7)
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3f. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:33 pm ((PDT))

> I don't know what "drummet" is.

I maybe wrong,but I thoght drummet is from chicken wing and it isquite tiny stuff..

Even if dog sized around chiwawas,I think those are way too small and not much meat...

What do you all think? I have never fed drummet to my corgi as meal at all...

yassy

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Messages in this topic (7)
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4a. Re: Blood in poop
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:13 pm ((PDT))


On Oct 23, 2007, at 1:06 PM, merril Woolf wrote:
> And what's even funnier :- I read the post and knew exactly what
> she was talking about and
> didn't even notice the mistake until I saw the correction.
>
> Guess you can add me to the dumb blonde reader.

No, really, Merril, I did exactly the same thing. Read it and just
knew what she said, even if it wasn't written there.

And I AM a blonde, dumb when it's profitable:)

ginny


All stunts performed without a net!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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5a. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:15 pm ((PDT))

Hi! Erika, is it?
Actually, tiny dogs often need MORE than the 2-3% of their estimated ADULT
ideal body weight.
Sometimes they need as much as 4-6%, and if they are still growing, even
more than that.
You could figure out her estimated adult weight, and plan to feed, say, 5%
of that daily, split into 3-4 meals a day.
4lbs as an adult weight? Tiny dogs mature fast, so your girl may be near her
full growth.
5% of 4lbs = 90.718474 grams or 3.2 oz a day
6% of 4lbs = 108.862169 grams or 3.84 oz a day
5% of 5 lbs = 113.398093 or 4 oz a day
6% of 5 lbs = 136.077711 or 4.8 oz a day
BUT, there's no need to figure it out this way! The percentages are there
JUST to provide a guideline, a place to start, its not a hard and fast
*rule*.
Letting a small or tiny dog eat from a large portion, and then 'trading'
that portion for a yummy treat when she's eaten a meal's worth, so it can be
put away for the next meal is a terrific way to feed!

A few recommendations to think about;
A tiny dog should be fed in several small meals a day to begin with.
But there's no need to cut the portions up in teensy bits.
Offer a chicken leg or breast, maybe with the meat ribboned with heavy
kitchen shears and take it up and put it in the fridge when the pup has
obviously had enough.
Next meal, serve it up again.
You may want to warm it on a plastic bag in very warm water, as cold foods
can lower a toy dog's core body temperature.
There's not need to worry about getting enough bone at first, once she eats
down to the bone, the soft gristle is often enough for a tiny dog's needs.
Whatever bone she doesn't eat, toss out.

EDIBLE bone, what your dog can manage at her size and proficiency, is whats
important. You'll want to feed mostly meat, and fat, and some organs, too.
Whole prey, with skin and fur on and organs intact, is the ideal species
appropriate raw prey model. Small critters, like small size rabbits, Game
Hens (young chickens), quail, rats, hamsters, guinea pigs, small fish, etc.
are of a size thats appropriate for edible bone for your tiny dog. You can
feed turkey, pork, beef, lamb, goat, etc, too, but most of those bones will
not be edible for a toy dog.

A helpful link;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*
As for where to find good meat for your dog, shop where you would shop for
yourself!
Its that simple.

HTHs
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey


MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.

New here.

So here is the deal, I have 6 month old female Chihuahua who is around 3lbs.
The only brand
of food available here is purina which is basically corn and some chicken
fat. I don't want to
feed her that.

So, I'm thinking very seriously about putting her on a raw diet. Are there
any Mexico resident
raw feeders here (I live in Oaxaca City) or for that matter third world
country residents that
can give me suggestions as to where I can buy SAFE raw meat?

And for every one, what is the best kind of diet for a dog of this size?
Everything a normal
dog gets but smaller? How much do I feed a day?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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5b. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:38 pm ((PDT))

I have two grown Chis that weigh about 5 lbs each. Any meat that you
would buy for yourself is safe for your dog. And many of us feed meat
to our dogs that we ourselves would not eat. Matter of fact my dogs
get much more excited about meals if they are on the smelly side. Yes
they eat the same as larger dogs, but less. I don't weigh my dog's
food, but the starting point is 2-3% of your dogs estimated adult
weight. Then just adjust- more if your dog is getting thin and less if
your dog is getting portly. Me? I'd get a chicken and give her a leg
for the first meal and just keep feeding the chicken til it's gone.
Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cringingsphinx" <anielkacsaky@...>
wrote:
So here is the deal, I have 6 month old female Chihuahua who is around
3lbs. The only brand of food available here is purina which is
basically corn and some chicken fat. I don't want to feed her that.
So, I'm thinking very seriously about putting her on a raw diet. Are
there any Mexico resident raw feeders here (I live in Oaxaca City) or
for that matter third world country residents that can give me
suggestions as to where I can buy SAFE raw meat?
And for every one, what is the best kind of diet for a dog of this
size? Everything a normal dog gets but smaller? How much do I feed a
day?

Messages in this topic (6)
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5c. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:44 pm ((PDT))


You can feed the little dogs the same things you feed the big dogs. My
six-pound Toy Poodle will eat everything the big dogs eat, but the only
bones she fully consumes are chicken bones. I think the other bones are
just too daunting for her size. She strips them and leaves them. Then I
remove them.

I tried to get her to eat those nice soft bunny bones, but she dislikes
bunny and steadfastly refuses to eat it. I allow her one refusal - bunny
is it. Everything else, she has to eat. Including liver.

BTW, she is just absolutely, completely and totally nuts about tripe! I
can hide anything I need to in tripe and she devours it and asks for
more immediately! It's like Belgian chocolate is to me - or Haagen Daz.


Carolyn J. Garnaas


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you are not authorized to receive it, please promptly delete this message and
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Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

5d. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
Posted by: "cdhaik" cdhaik@yahoo.com cdhaik
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:28 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cringingsphinx"
<anielkacsaky@...> wrote:
>
> So, I'm thinking very seriously about putting her on a raw diet.
Are there any Mexico resident
> raw feeders here (I live in Oaxaca City) or for that matter third
world country residents that
> can give me suggestions as to where I can buy SAFE raw meat?
>

hi there and welcome

I live in Guatemala City. I have been feeding raw for 10 months now
and it is a battle to find cheaper cuts of meat here but i have and
have found a few sources out of the city willing to supply me with
whole rabbit. These guys farm them for personal consumption but are
very happy to sell to me as well. i also found out by asking the
locals where it was cheaper to go for meat. They sent me to the
local markets of which every town has one here. Would i eat the meat
myself. NO!! In my opinion not sanitary conditions at all but my two
Aussies and one old boy maltese X and one and a half cats (one
princess purr is still stubborn about raw) thrive on what i get.

Ocassionally i get to the big supermarkets with imported meat and
cry a few tears as i fork out money for pork shoulder roasts and
ribs or lamb leg but this is such a small portion of my monthly
budget. Turkey is also a popular meat here so drums thighs and wings
are great buys when i see them. I would strongly recommend asking
the locals where they buy their meat and speak to the local farmers.
You might be very suprised what you can come up with and for a dog
that size oh what heaven for the purse. I dont tell anyone what i
buy is for my dogs, they would be horrified that i feed my dogs what
could feed their families for a while.

Tongue is a delicacey here so costs me more than it would back home.
Heart is very cheap and i get fresh slaughter monthly that i pack
and freeze. As for the safety aspect of meat a lot of people on this
list will tell you they feed stuff they find slightly off, heck some
even feed completely off. I have never had a problem even the
slightly slimy pork i find on sale at the end of sell by date seems
to all go down and out quite normally. I am quite sure once you have
settled into the raw diet you will see incredible changes and
benefits in your little one.

Caren y Amber y Rain

Messages in this topic (6)
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6a. Re: swallowing food whole
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:37 pm ((PDT))

Hi Erika,
I have two 5lb Chihuahuas. Feed your dog bigger food. Try a leg or
thigh, a whole leg quarter or a breast quarter. Wings are a little
heavy on bone. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "erikamdey" <erikamdey@...> wrote:
This is a wonderful message board, thanks all to the great insight. I
have a little dog, a 7# papillon who just started on this diet. How
do I get him to NOT swallow his food whole, or maybe is this okay at
first? He's decided that this was the best invention created by me,
but man, I think he's overzealous. This morning he got a chicken
wing and after eating the first joint off, he swallowed the upper
joint whole! He hasn't acted uncomfortable, quite the contrary (I've
never seen him with soooo much energy!), but I don't know that a
whole chicken bone is healthy inside his system. Wondering what
other's experiences, comments, sugesstions are... Thanks, Erika

Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. swallowing food whole
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:46 pm ((PDT))


Give your Papillon things to eat that start out bigger than his head.
That prevents gulping. Be sure to stick around during the meal to remove
that last gulp-sized bite that is throat-sized and could cause choking.


Carolyn J. Garnaas

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copying, distributing, or using such information is strictly prohibited and may
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you are not authorized to receive it, please promptly delete this message and
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Messages in this topic (3)
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7. Soft pork bones
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:38 pm ((PDT))

I have just started feeding raw pork since 5 days ago. For the RMB, I
am giving the soft pork bones, is this considered as bones?
Doreen

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Re: Packaged raw diets
Posted by: "moemahood@aol.com" moemahood@aol.com selfemployedhealth
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:38 pm ((PDT))

Reading the Bravo website, I saw
that
> the beef flavor has almost a 5% ash content.

My understanding is the ash is included because it is an FDA regulation so that it is not fit for human consumption.?

Personally, I think its just as easy to feed whole pieces of meat and my dogs enjoy the ripping, knawing and chewing.?

Not sure why you are looking at prepackaged.? It is much more expensive.

?Maureen

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Messages in this topic (4)
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8b. Re: Packaged raw diets
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:25 pm ((PDT))


I'm sure there must be, but not the people who hang out at this board. :)
This group feeds a whole lot of various parts of various animals' raw meat,
plus a little bit of bone and a little bit of organ. Just like dogs and cats
evolved while eating.

Lynda

In a message dated 10/23/2007 7:55:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, "Margo
Farnsworth" writes:

Does anyone else do this, a combination of RMBs
and the packaged raw diet?

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


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Messages in this topic (4)
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9. Raw vs. Kibble
Posted by: "Dina" dotdog99@comcast.net dmmelendez
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:15 pm ((PDT))

Hi group--
I had to share this story with a group of people that would "get it"--
and have a good laugh.

I am on a breed list, very narrow minded and not much thinking outside
of "their" little box. Ofcourse whenever raw is brought up in a
discussion, I'll hop in.

This last discussion ended up private and the debate was about the
protein content in kibble--up until this point it had been an
question/answer--then debate--then she began arguing my points--

Long story short:

I told this person that kibble wasn't a true protein source for a
carnivore as it is cooked (and so many other things, I know, but the
little brain couldn't take too much at once) and carnivores don't cook--

Her reply was "and carnivores don't shop...That would eliminate your
raw food plan..."


Obviously a talent in the debating arena.

Sad, sad people...

Still laughing at the stupidity,
Dina Melendez


Messages in this topic (1)
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10. why is my dog eating her poo
Posted by: "maradethc" maradethc@yahoo.com maradethc
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:18 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone. Its so gross my dog is eating poo. I am not sure if its
hers. I have 4 dogs. But maybe she is missing somthing in her diet.
They are on the raw diet. I make my own vegie min and they get chicken
backs. They also eat marro bones to. Is there something i can do. Thanks
Maradeth

Messages in this topic (1)
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11.1. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:26 pm ((PDT))


Gotta lov ya, Jane! Your experience shows. Thanks for always having
a sense of humor, as that's what's needed more than all the
arguments. A pet's health tells the truth, every time, and needs no
defense. Thank you, sincerely, for starting this site.

Lynne


--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "bluegracepwd" <janea@...> wrote:
>> It's probably going to be impossible to refute that sort of
> allegation at a dinner party without looking terribly defensive.
> You could use the other approach of saying, "yes, we're trying to
> see how quickly we can kill our dogs on this diet. So far, we're
> incredibly unsuccessful!"
>
> Good luck.
>
> - Jane
>


Messages in this topic (27)
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12. Re: Bone & raw meat meals?
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:29 pm ((PDT))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.


I know I am giving bones in EVERY meal.........This is wrong????
I don't want my dogs getting runny poop again, which they did when I didn't
have bone in it a couple days ago.....so back to a turkey neck in each
meal. Since they ALWAYS had runny/soft poop before raw.....& with bone in
their raw meals, fir the first time they had normal poop, I would be very
apprehensive not to feed bone?
Trina
new to RAW

On 10/23/07, cynthiashankman <ShankMa4@aol.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> It seems we don't talk enough about "just meaty meals" without bone.
> We talk more about bone meals and it can be misleading to a
> beginner. Especially when we talk about giving chicken with bone in
> for one week -two weeks in the beginning. Then a beginner doesn't
> realize about giving just meaty meals. And the name of the diet is
> confusing too ... "Raw Meaty Bones".
>
> 80% meat; 10% bone; and 10% organ. That is not what the above
> rotation consists of. Right?
>
> Moderators: Could we please talk more about meaty meals, aka no bone
> meals.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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13. Urine output from a puppy on Raw Diet.
Posted by: "naps2003" naps2003@yahoo.com naps2003
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I have been feeding a raw diet to my adult dogs and now my 4 month old
Border Collie pup. Has anyone every had a problem with large amounts
of urine output, as though he can't hold it. I had his urine checked
and the specific gravity is ok in the AM, but he piddles alot, even
when walking around :-( Any thoughts on this?

Messages in this topic (1)
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14. First time feeding raw and . . .
Posted by: "liebo1134" liebo1134@yahoo.com liebo1134
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:31 pm ((PDT))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES PLEASE.


Hey guys my name is Jeremy and I'm new to the group . . . I have a 14 month old American
Pit Bull Terrier named Achilles and have been researching RAW or BARF for quite some time
now . . . i just decided to buy some chicken drumsticks at the local food store (no hormones
injected and no additives or anything) and decided to give it to Achilles tonight . . . anyway I
put him in a small area and put down 2 of the drumsticks and sat right next to him and he
kept smelling them and licking them a lot . . . then he took one of them and nawed on it and
at it pretty fast and then he went immediately to go to the bathroom . . . after that he didn't
touch the 2nd one so i put it in a ziplock bag and threw it out cause i didn't want it to be
exposed for salmonella and stuff like that . . . anyway I have a few questions . . . did i do this
right? why did he only eat 1 if it was his first meal of the day? i disenfected by washing the
floor with a nice lemon disenfectent so i'm assuming i did that write . . . i basically just put
the chicken on paper plates by the way don't know if that was right . . . but yeh anyway i feel
like the chicken drums were cold and maybe he didn't like them that cold? I don't know any
help would be good . . . his 2nd and last meal is going to be solid gold barking at the moon
cause i don't wanna mess everything up with him so quick . . .

Messages in this topic (1)
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15a. Now what?
Posted by: "Monica" mommyof2gals@comcast.net mommyof2gals
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:34 pm ((PDT))

Some of you might remember, my Loki started suffering from
pancreatitis back in April after a nasty illness of unknown origin.
It took until June to get it under control and was a nightmare during
those two months.

We managed to keep it in check by carefully monitoring fat, primarily
by skinning his poultry.

We finally tried adding back some liver yesterday, as I feel organ
meat is essential to this diet. He had one *tiny* piece (less than 1"
square - he is 60lbs) and he is back to having an upset tummy -
tonight he refused dinner after acting sick all day, and just now
vomitted - mostly water and bile. I have purposely only fed him
skinned chicken quarters this week so I could gauge his reaction to
the organ meat.

If he continues to have an intolerance to organ meat and is limited
on other meat he can eat, will he be nutrient deficient? I already
cannot feed him lamb or veal anymore, he hates fish and rabbit and
the only pork he can tolerate is heavily boned pieces like ribs or
neck bones. His diet is basically chicken and turkey.

I have complete faith in a well-rounded raw diet, but with everything
we've had to omit since April I am as worried as I was when he was on
premium kibble as a pup.

And no, he hasn't had any vaccinations since he was a pup and nothing
else has changed but that little piece of liver.

Thanks
Monica and Loki

Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12193

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Blood in poop
From: costrowski75
1b. Re: Blood in poop
From: helpshelteranimals
1c. Re: Blood in poop
From: merril Woolf
1d. Re: Blood in poop
From: costrowski75
1e. Re: Blood in poop
From: Giselle

2a. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
From: Annaliisa Readman
2b. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
From: costrowski75

3.1. Feeding Fish
From: cynthia iparraguirre
3.2. Re: Feeding Fish
From: costrowski75
3.3. Re: Feeding Fish
From: Morledzep@aol.com

4a. was: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal? Now is
From: lauraanimal1

5a. New to the group: Feeding pork
From: D. Rajska
5b. Re: New to the group: Feeding pork
From: Morledzep@aol.com
5c. Re: New to the group: Feeding pork
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
From: spricketysprock
6b. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
From: Laura Atkinson
6c. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
From: Sandee Lee
6d. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
From: katkellm

7a. Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
From: cringingsphinx
7b. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
From: erikamdey

8. swallowing food whole
From: erikamdey

9a. Packaged raw diets
From: Margo Farnsworth
9b. Re: Packaged raw diets
From: Sandee Lee

10. Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
From: nahteo1

11. RILEY'S FIRST VISIT TO VET SINCE STARTING RAW
From: miensasis


Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Blood in poop
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:03 am ((PDT))

"costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
> Poop IN the stool--
> Poop ON the stool--

Well, THIS is certainly one of my dumber comments.
Let's try:
BLOOD in the stool--
and
BLOOD on the stool--

It's the double Os what hung me up.
Sorry.
Chris O-O


Messages in this topic (9)
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1b. Re: Blood in poop
Posted by: "helpshelteranimals" helpshelteranimals@yahoo.com helpshelteranimals
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:02 pm ((PDT))

Oh my god Chris!!! LOL!!!!!!!! You certainly are the life of the
rawfeeding group! That's ok, it only proved to me that you are human
and not some super power with unending intellect. *wink*

It's nice to know that you have 'blonde moments' like the rest of us.
Lol! I think that was the highlight of my day!!

AG & Ruffian (Mystery Mutt)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "costrowski75" <Chriso75@> wrote:
> > Poop IN the stool--
> > Poop ON the stool--
>
> Well, THIS is certainly one of my dumber comments.

> Chris O-O


Messages in this topic (9)
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1c. Re: Blood in poop
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:23 pm ((PDT))

> It's nice to know that you have 'blonde moments' like the rest of us.
> Lol! I think that was the highlight of my day!!
>
> AG & Ruffian (Mystery Mutt)
> > "costrowski75" <Chriso75@> wrote:
> > > Poop IN the stool--
> > > Poop ON the stool--
> >
> > Well, THIS is certainly one of my dumber comments.
>
> > Chris O-O

And what's even funnier :- I read the post and knew exactly what she was talking about and
didn't even notice the mistake until I saw the correction.

Guess you can add me to the dumb blonde reader.

Merril

Messages in this topic (9)
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1d. Re: Blood in poop
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:56 pm ((PDT))

"merril Woolf" <merril@...> wrote:
> And what's even funnier :- I read the post and knew exactly what she
was talking about and
> didn't even notice the mistake until I saw the correction.
>
> Guess you can add me to the dumb blonde reader.
>
> Merril
*****
Well Ms WOOlf, it's cuz you tOO have grown tOO accustomed to the double-
O configuration. It certainly can bambOOzle if one forgets to use
one's nOOdle. What can I say.
Chris OO

Messages in this topic (9)
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1e. Re: Blood in poop
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:16 pm ((PDT))

O.M.D.!
meeee, too!
ROFLOL!

Giselle

On 10/23/07, merril Woolf <merril@kentfieldwhippets.com> wrote:
>
> > It's nice to know that you have 'blonde moments' like the rest of us.
> > Lol! I think that was the highlight of my day!!
> >
> > AG & Ruffian (Mystery Mutt)
> > > "costrowski75" <Chriso75@> wrote:
> > > > Poop IN the stool--
> > > > Poop ON the stool--
> > >
> > > Well, THIS is certainly one of my dumber comments.
> >
> > > Chris O-O
>
> And what's even funnier :- I read the post and knew exactly what she was
> talking about and
> didn't even notice the mistake until I saw the correction.
>
> Guess you can add me to the dumb blonde reader.
>
> Merril
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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2a. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
Posted by: "Annaliisa Readman" amvilppu@hotmail.com amvilppu
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:03 pm ((PDT))


Thanks for all the feedback on the fish and eggs. Laila gets fish and eggs daily but also beef/and or chicken. She's a very active growing Boxer pup and eats quite a bit! I just wanted to make sure that fish and eggs were something that could be eaten daily. We luckily have had virtually no diarrhea (except when she gulps ocean water!). What I had read on the listserve maybe a month ago is that Herring shouldn't be fed daily because it blocks the absorption of some vitamin (can't remember which one), so Laila gets some Herring but mostly Capelin.

Annaliisa, Drew and Boxer pup Laila
_________________________________________________________________
Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!
http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews


Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:15 pm ((PDT))

"Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...> wrote:
>
> Of the 13 dogs we have here, 10 of them have tried tilapia at one
> point or another. I may as well simply feed them the money I spent to
> buy it. They'd at least have fun shredding that!
*****
Boy no foolin'.
It's even worse if one has spent serious bucks on the rejected food.
What! What do you MEAN you won't eat it? How can you not like this?

I have tried several times to interest my big Lab in whole bunny but
nope, no way, uh-uh ain't gonna happen, forget it. At least Tilapia
isn't a high zoot item.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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3.1. Feeding Fish
Posted by: "cynthia iparraguirre" cyn7711@yahoo.com cyn7711
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:49 pm ((PDT))

I have found canned salmon at a very, very reasonable price, but is it good to feed?

Cynthia Flores


"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (36)
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3.2. Re: Feeding Fish
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:54 pm ((PDT))

cynthia iparraguirre <cyn7711@...> wrote:
>
> I have found canned salmon at a very, very reasonable price, but is
it good to feed?
*****
Upside:
it is a source of protein variety
it is a source of Omega 3 fatty acid
it is affordable

Downside:
it is cooked
it is salty

Some people rely on it.
Some people feed it from time to time.
Some people don't feed it at all.

Your choice.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (36)
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3.3. Re: Feeding Fish
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:35 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 10/23/2007 11:49:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,
cyn7711@yahoo.com writes:

I have found canned salmon at a very, very reasonable price, but is it good
to feed?



Cynthia,

canned = cooked.. which kinda defeats the purpose of a raw diet. it's great
to keep around to make salmon patties, or for a "oops i forgot to thaw
something" meal, but skipping a day never hurt anybody either..

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (36)
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4a. was: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal? Now is
Posted by: "lauraanimal1" lauraanimal1@yahoo.com lauraanimal1
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:50 pm ((PDT))

> Why do people rave about this tripe business when wolves supposedly
> don't eat stomach contents?

All I know is that My dog loves it, she absalutely adores it, so no
matter its values or lack there of, it is worth the time and effort.
She has great fun and is happy to get it and when she finishes it she
lets me know that she is very happy she got it and loves me a bit
extra that day. She doesnt do this with chicken backs so it makes it
worth that much more to me for that reason and that reason only,
nothing to do with nutrition or which one is better!!!!


Does anyone know whats so good about eye balls? and which eye balls
are better? beef, pig, venison etc.? My girl seems to have found she
likes them a lot if it is a young animal more then an old one, on a
young one she makes sure thats one of the first things she eats, but
doesnt touch the older one. what are the nutrition values of them?


Thanks so much everyone,
Laura and Ishta

Messages in this topic (13)
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5a. New to the group: Feeding pork
Posted by: "D. Rajska" d.rajska@gmail.com deerajska
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:39 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the group and wanted to send out a quick hello. My name is Dee,
and I'm getting a Cairn terrier puppy in three weeks. I've read lots of your
archives, and have learned a lot from your emails - thank you :)

One question I did want to ask though: in your posts, I've seen a couple of
references to feeding raw pork. I read somewhere that you shouldn't feed raw
pork because of possible trichinosis contamination? Can I get people to
clarify?

:)

Thanks,

Dee & Baby Frankie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: New to the group: Feeding pork
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:00 pm ((PDT))


In a message dated 10/23/2007 12:39:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
d.rajska@gmail.com writes:

One question I did want to ask though: in your posts, I've seen a couple of
references to feeding raw pork. I read somewhere that you shouldn't feed raw
pork because of possible trichinosis contamination? Can I get people to
clarify?


Dee,

Raw pork is just fine if you buy pork raised for human consumption in the
USA, Canada, Australia and most of the EU. And if you're hunting wild pork, just
freeze it solid for a month.

My dogs eat pork a LOT.. it's cheap and easy to get.. and feeding 9 large
dogs would be impossible if not for cheap pork and cheap chicken..

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

5c. Re: New to the group: Feeding pork
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:05 pm ((PDT))

"D. Rajska" <d.rajska@...> wrote:
> One question I did want to ask though: in your posts, I've seen a
couple of
> references to feeding raw pork. I read somewhere that you shouldn't
feed raw
> pork because of possible trichinosis contamination? Can I get people
to
> clarify?
*****
Sure.
If you feed pork raised in the US, Canada, Australia or some few
Duropean countries, you do not have to worry about trich. It's been
good to go in the US and Canada since 2000 I think, maybe 2001;
Australia has never had a problem with it.

Certainly in the archives you will find links to corroberating websites.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
Posted by: "spricketysprock" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:47 pm ((PDT))

But what's so great about it?

Messages in this topic (13)
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6b. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:50 pm ((PDT))

It's a part of the whole. It's a muscle meat that dogs enjoy. That's
all. And most dogs will do handstands for it...that's the fun part.

On 10/23/07, spricketysprock <jess.hamway@gmail.com> wrote:
> But what's so great about it?

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.


Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:57 pm ((PDT))

It's a nice chunk of nutritious chewy muscle meat (something that seems to
be lacking in many diets) and part of the whole. Since we stress feeding as
many body parts as possible, it's merely one more option for variety in the
diet.

Generally dogs absolutely love it and it has been known to get fussy dogs to
eat liver!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@gmail.com>


But what's so great about it?

Messages in this topic (13)
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6d. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:16 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@...>
wrote:
> But what's so great about it?

If you are asking what is so great about it from a dog's point of
view, i'm going to answer for my three-i hope. "It has this really
great smell and tastes even better, kind of like wet horse poop-which
i won't tell ya if we like to eat or not. It is really really chewy
and even though it doesn't look like much it takes work to wrestle it
around and eat it. It makes our mom laugh when we shake our heads in
fast little jerks and pretend that we are emptying out the stomach
content like our ancestors, the wolf. It makes me feel like a wolf
when i know how a wolf does something and nobody ever told me that is
how a wolf would do it." OK, i lied. They only told me to type the
first two. <giggle> KathyM


Messages in this topic (13)
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7a. Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
Posted by: "cringingsphinx" anielkacsaky@gmail.com cringingsphinx
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:49 pm ((PDT))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.

New here.

So here is the deal, I have 6 month old female Chihuahua who is around 3lbs. The only brand
of food available here is purina which is basically corn and some chicken fat. I don't want to
feed her that.

So, I'm thinking very seriously about putting her on a raw diet. Are there any Mexico resident
raw feeders here (I live in Oaxaca City) or for that matter third world country residents that
can give me suggestions as to where I can buy SAFE raw meat?

And for every one, what is the best kind of diet for a dog of this size? Everything a normal
dog gets but smaller? How much do I feed a day?

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
Posted by: "erikamdey" erikamdey@hotmail.com erikamdey
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:54 pm ((PDT))

I am just learning, but it seems that this is true, a small dog gets
the same diet, just in smaller portions.
As far as portion size, they say starting off at 2% of body weight is
the amount that should be fed. So in your little guy's case here's how
I would calculate:
3lbs * 16 (to get amount in ounces) = 48
then multiply 48 by .02 to get 2% of that: .96
wow - so if this is right, your tiny tot should get just under an ounce
of food a day (1/16 of a lb!).
I would predict that a dog of that size would thrive best on smaller
softer bones considering even if his jaw muscles were really strong,
the bones would still need to be soft enough that they don't hurt the
tiny bones in his little jaw. But let me reiterate, I'm really new to
this stuff AND not an expert, just making assumptions really, but it's
nice to know that others are critiquing and can correct me if I'm wrong.
Hope you find good meat and cheers to you for thinking of your dog's
good health.

And for every one, what is the best kind of diet for a dog of this
size? Everything a normal dog gets but smaller? How much do I feed a
day?

Messages in this topic (2)
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8. swallowing food whole
Posted by: "erikamdey" erikamdey@hotmail.com erikamdey
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:33 pm ((PDT))

This is a wonderful message board, thanks all to the great insight.
I have a little dog, a 7# papillon who just started on this diet. How
do I get him to NOT swallow his food whole, or maybe is this okay at
first? He's decided that this was the best invention created by me,
but man, I think he's overzealous. This morning he got a chicken wing
and after eating the first joint off, he swallowed the upper joint
whole! He hasn't acted uncomfortable, quite the contrary (I've never
seen him with soooo much energy!), but I don't know that a whole
chicken bone is healthy inside his system. Wondering what other's
experiences, comments, sugesstions are... Thanks, Erika


Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________

9a. Packaged raw diets
Posted by: "Margo Farnsworth" mfarnsworth@mfgraffix.com mfarnsworth06759
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:54 pm ((PDT))

I'm looking for some honest feedback on the packaged raw diets available. I
was looking at Oma's Pride and Bravo. Reading the Bravo website, I saw that
the beef flavor has almost a 5% ash content. Should this be of concern, and
why does it contain ash? I thought that was something that ended up in
commercial dry foods and is considered a "bad" thing. I'm just looking for
something to make life a bit more convenient. I'll feed them RMBs in the am
and then do a packaged diet in the evenings and when we are away (make the
pet sitter's life easier). Does anyone else do this, a combination of RMBs
and the packaged raw diet?

Thanks,
Margo

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: Packaged raw diets
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:22 pm ((PDT))

In addition to being ground, as you can see you have no control over the
ingredients. The raw mixes are notorious for including too much bone, not
enough meat and fat, and too many other inappropriate ingredients. I am not
certain of the vegetable content in Bravo because they don't list it, but
Oma's contains 20% vegetables.

Why pay those horrendous prices for food that is not nutritious, not species
appropriate and not necessary?

It's no more difficult (and far more healthy) to hand your dog a chunk of
meat than it is to cut off a chunk of ground up mush.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Margo Farnsworth" <mfarnsworth@mfgraffix.com>

> I'm looking for some honest feedback on the packaged raw diets available.
I
> was looking at Oma's Pride and Bravo. Reading the Bravo website, I saw
that
> the beef flavor has almost a 5% ash content. Should this be of concern,
and
> why does it contain ash? I thought that was something that ended up in
> commercial dry foods and is considered a "bad" thing. I'm just looking
for
> something to make life a bit more convenient. I'll feed them RMBs in the
am
> and then do a packaged diet in the evenings and when we are away (make the
> pet sitter's life easier).

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10. Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
Posted by: "nahteo1" nahteo1@yahoo.com nahteo1
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:54 pm ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE;SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!!


My 5 month mini-doxie began vomiting/ diarrhea last week and within two
days, took to my vet for a check. Long story short, they suspected
either a blockage or pancreatitis. Tests came back normal, x-
rays/ultrasound negative. One week and NO diagnosis. Another blood
test, another ultra-sound of the abdomen, then pancreatitis was finally
ruled out, but they found an enlarged lymph node, which was causing low
platelet count. Vet's making it sound that it's due to raw feeding??

My doxie's diet rotation consisted of turkey necks, chicken wings/
drummet, fish twice a week (full, raw sardine) and a piece of chicken
liver weekly. IF my doxie survives this unexplainable sickness,
they're suggesting completely OFF raw and switch to a low-fat kibble.

My resolve w/ raw food is being tested and somehow, I feel responsible
for his being sick. What's going on??

Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________

11. RILEY'S FIRST VISIT TO VET SINCE STARTING RAW
Posted by: "miensasis" kpmnlm@patmedia.net miensasis
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:54 pm ((PDT))

Hi Everyone...

The recent posts here about how to handle the vet when feeding raw
were very timely and helpful. I've had my wheaten, Riley, on raw for
about a month now and was nervous about his upcoming vet visit and
how to handle the subject of diet if it came up (plus the fact that
they always ask for a stool sample...and Riley's always has little
bits of bone in it!). Well...it never came up because the vet was SO
IMPRESSED with him. He said Riley's teeth were immaculate, his body
size and weight was perfect, and that Riley gets a gold star for the
healthiest dog he has seen in awhile. He even asked if we had just
come from the groomer because Riley's coat was so shiny and soft.
(Riley is actually DUE for a bath tomorrow!) He said...I don't know
what you are doing with this guy....but whatever it is KEEP IT UP! I
just kept quiet, said THANK YOU, and we went on our way. Riley has
seen this vet several times since he was a pup, and he has NEVER,
EVER had this kind of praise for him! I left feeling so good about my
decision to feed raw and it was just extra proof of the power of this
very natural way of eating.

Nancy


Messages in this topic (1)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12192

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
From: Mary Anne Libcke

2a. Re: looking for information on raw feeding
From: Andrea

3a. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
From: Andrea
3b. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
From: Laura Atkinson

4a. Re: Feeding Quail
From: costrowski75
4b. Re: Feeding Quail
From: Laura Atkinson

5a. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
From: Andrea
5b. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
From: costrowski75
5c. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
From: Mary Anne Libcke
5d. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
From: Andrea
5e. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
From: costrowski75
5f. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
From: Laura Atkinson

6a. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
From: carnesbill
6b. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
From: katkellm
6c. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
From: Greta Hill
6d. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
From: costrowski75
6e. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
From: Denise and David Spotila
6f. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Goose Bones
From: carnesbill
7b. Re: Goose Bones
From: jennifer_hell

8a. Has anyone heard of Nature's Variety Prairie?
From: tlduran1
8b. ADMIN/Re: Has anyone heard of Nature's Variety Prairie?
From: costrowski75
8c. Re: ADMIN/Re: Has anyone heard of Nature's Variety Prairie?
From: Laura Atkinson

9a. Venison! I'm so excited! Bear with me!
From: jennifer_hell
9b. Re: Venison! I'm so excited! Bear with me!
From: katkellm


Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone
Posted by: "Mary Anne Libcke" Marylibcke@hotmail.com libckem
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:45 am ((PDT))


I too am having a little trouble getting my border collie to eat. He looks at me like I am crazy! He is 7 and was a rescue at about 6-8 months of age and has had a fear problem. I keep telling him that he is a good boy and to go ahead. I now cut the meat in strips while still on the bone for him. That way he gets a grip on the meat. I also found that if I feed him under the table as opposed to on the kitchen floor out in the open he does better. I guess he likes his privacy. I have no problem with the puppy! he just grabs the chicken leg or whatever and goes to town. Hopefully I can teach an old dog new tricks.

Thanks for everything, you guys are great.

Mary Anne

Marylibcke@hotmail.com


To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.comFrom: megan.giselle@gmail.comDate: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:52:47 -0400Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Coaxing to gnaw bone


Hi, Alicia!YQW, and TYVM! ^_^Looking forward to your updates!TCGiselleGiselle, great tips, thanks so much! Will let you know how it goes.>> Alicia>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Messages in this topic (9)
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2a. Re: looking for information on raw feeding
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:50 am ((PDT))

Becky, one of the books I started with was "Raw Meaty Bones" by Tom
Lonsdale, and then "Work Wonders" also by Dr. Lonsdale. They are
great for answering the "Why" question to raw feeding. For the "how"
I honestly think the best resource is this list. If you get a g-mail
account specificly for the list or sign up for the daily digest
you'll have a book in no time. There are tons of posts every week
here, and most pertain to newbies starting out. You could also go
into the archives (through the website on yahoo groups) and choose a
date and start reading.

The short version:
Eventually you will feed a variety of body parts from a variety of
animals consisting of mostly meat, some bone, and some organ. At
first it is best to choose one protein source and feed only that for
a week or two. Organs and other proteins are best introduced slowly
after that.
How much? Start with about 2-3% of the dog's ideal ADULT weight and
add/reduce depending on if the dog gets skinny/chunky.
What to expect: A very happy dog. Most problems that newbies
encounter are due to handler error such as too much food, too much
variety, etc. Roadblocks might include loose stools, smelly farts,
vomiting and re-eating food. . . All sound worse than they really are.

Most of the time a dog with food allergies doesn't have much of a
problem on a raw diet. Grains are usually the worst culprit and
since there aren't grains in a raw diet the itchies go away.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ri_bulldogs" <ri_bulldogs@...>
wrote:

> Could anyone suggest some books articles etc.? Our concerns mostly
> stem from what and how much to feed as well as what to expect in
> the beginning.


Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:58 am ((PDT))

Annaliisa Readman <amvilppu@...> wrote:

> It is my understanding that the 2-3 percent is appropriate for
> adult dogs but not puppies. What I have read is that puppies need
> 10 percent of their body weight

The 2-3% is calculated from the estimated ideal ADULT weight, not
current weight, so it is still ok for puppies. The 10% is calculated
from the current puppy weight (until the 10% is larger than 2-3% adult
weight). Both should work fine as starting points(especailly when you
add/reduce food based on how the pup looks).

Andrea


Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:59 am ((PDT))

2% to 3% of their *expected adult weight* is appropriate for puppies,
and adjust as needed. It has the advantage over the 10% of puppy
weight of not needing to adjust as much as they grow. Although my
current puppy, at probably a svelte 36 lbs (I should take her over and
see where she's at) is eating as much as my 17 mo old, 58+ lb
boy...because she is just that active.

Some people feed 3 meals from weaning to 3 - 4 months and go to 2
meals around 6 months. I'm fuzzier. I do two meals and a good snack
when they're under 3 months...and then go to 2 meals until I feel like
switching them to a single meal. (And, for those who have been
watching with amusement, 8 mo old Robin is now 2 days into 1 meal a
day. She loves the bigger meal, but is a little concerned that she's
missing something in the AM. This is the longest I've had a puppy on
2 meals a day, simply because I didn't feel up to dealing with her
"feed me now" temper tantrums in the morning.)

On 10/22/07, Annaliisa Readman <amvilppu@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> It is my understanding that the 2-3 percent is appropriate for adult dogs but not puppies. What I have read is that puppies need 10 percent of their body weight and that is what I have been feeding my 17 week old boxer puppy for the last 5 weeks.

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.


Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Feeding Quail
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:59 am ((PDT))

"cynthia iparraguirre" <cyn7711@...> wrote:
>
> I resently bought some quail, but now I am afraid to feed it to my
lab. Is she too big to eat quail?
*****
Cynthia, you have GOT to trim your messages! Please, please check
what you've left below you signature. If there's anything more than
a few lines CUT IT OFF! Thanks.

Well, quail is without a doubt too small for my Lab. And also too
small for my goldens and the BC. However, the 10 pound cat gets them
often--split into two meals--and loves them.

My guess is if you butterfly it (open it up like a book, with its
spine as the "hinge") your Lab will get maybe a chomp out of it but
will not likely hurt herself. But beyond the issue of difficult
swallowing, quails just don't offer enough food for their
considerable price.

Better to feed whole game hens or chicken, depending on how many
times a day you feed.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Feeding Quail
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:01 am ((PDT))

Yep, way to big. Please send it to me immediately for my smaller than
a lab Siberians. <grin>

If you've got polite eaters, it's probably just fine although it may
take a few of 'em to make a meal. If it was cheap...then OK, but
don't spend good money on small stuff is my general rule.

On 10/22/07, cynthia iparraguirre <cyn7711@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I resently bought some quail, but now I am afraid to feed it to my lab. Is she too big to eat quail?
> Cynthia flores
>
--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.


Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:05 am ((PDT))

Feed eggs to bowel tolerance, really. Some people have dogs who can
and do eat an egg every day. If you would be ok eating the fish
regularly your dog should be fine too. I know there is a concern when
regularly feeding large slow growing fish because they can have a
buildup of heavy metals, so I wouldn't feed tuna and the like every
day. And of course, some dogs are rediculously picky when it comes to
fish, so don't buy any in bulk until you are sure your pup will eat it.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "amvilppu" <amvilppu@...> wrote:

> is there any limitation on how often they should be fed and would
> they be different for adult dogs versus puppies? We have access to
> high-quality fresh fish and are inclined to feed it regularly but
> just want to make sure that is alright.

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:09 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "amvilppu" <amvilppu@...> wrote:
>I was just wondering what the general guidelines are for feeding
eggs and fish.
*****
Easy guidelines:
If it's wild anything, ask Fish and Wildlife (or local fisherman) if
there are any parasite or toxin issues to be aware of.

If it's farmed anything, parasites won't get you and toxic
accmumlations are generally tolerable if they exist at all but
nutrient quality is diminished.


> but is there any limitation on how often they should be fed and
would they be different for
> adult dogs versus puppies?
*****
Once quality control has been assured, you can feed both to bowel
tolerance, which means you start small and gradually work your way to
bigger meals as stool stability warrants. Doesn't matter pups or
adults.


I have read before that Herring
> shouldn't be fed everyday, but I am not sure beyond that.
*****
Unless the herring in your part of the world is suspect, there's no
reason why you couldn't feed SOME herring every day; but I would
recommend against feeding it exclusively every day. Herring is a
fine source of Omega 3 and should be fed if you have it. But it
should be part of a varied diet when at all possible.

My guess is until your dogs are fully acclimated to herring, large
doses of it will produce some pretty interesting stool experiences.
Chris O


Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

5c. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
Posted by: "Mary Anne Libcke" Marylibcke@hotmail.com libckem
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:29 am ((PDT))


I just bought on sale some whole Talapia in hopes the dogs would try that out. Anyone have success with this or did I waste my money. It was actually two very large whole fish for $3.00. I have them in the freezer waiting for the best time to try them. Any suggestions?

Mary Anne Libcke
Marylibcke@hotmail.com


To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.comFrom: poketmouse45@yahoo.comDate: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:05:29 +0000Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish


Feed eggs to bowel tolerance, really. Some people have dogs who can and do eat an egg every day. If you would be ok eating the fish regularly your dog should be fine too. I know there is a concern when regularly feeding large slow growing fish because they can have a buildup of heavy metals, so I wouldn't feed tuna and the like every day. And of course, some dogs are rediculously picky when it comes to fish, so don't buy any in bulk until you are sure your pup will eat it.Andrea--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "amvilppu" <amvilppu@...> wrote:> is there any limitation on how often they should be fed and would > they be different for adult dogs versus puppies? We have access to > high-quality fresh fish and are inclined to feed it regularly but > just want to make sure that is alright.


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Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

5d. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:40 am ((PDT))

Tilapia is one of those that lots of dogs are iffy about. Geiger won't
eat it unless I threaten to give it to his brother. Give it a try, but
I wouldn't be too offended if the dogs don't like it much.

Andrea


--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Mary Anne Libcke <Marylibcke@...>
wrote:

> I just bought on sale some whole Talapia in hopes the dogs would try
that out. Anyone have success with this or did I waste my money.

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

5e. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:47 am ((PDT))

"Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> Tilapia is one of those that lots of dogs are iffy about. Geiger
won't
> eat it unless I threaten to give it to his brother.
*****
Ha!
My dogs beg me to feed it to someone else, somewhere else entirely.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

5f. Re: Feeding Eggs and Fish
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:57 am ((PDT))

Of the 13 dogs we have here, 10 of them have tried tilapia at one
point or another. I may as well simply feed them the money I spent to
buy it. They'd at least have fun shredding that!

On 10/23/07, costrowski75 <Chriso75@aol.com> wrote:
> *****
> Ha!
> My dogs beg me to feed it to someone else, somewhere else entirely.
> Chris O

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.


Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:05 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@...>
wrote:
>
> Why do people rave about this tripe business when wolves supposedly
> don't eat stomach contents?

As has been said it's not the contents, rather the stomach itself.
Tripe is not the superfood that some tout it to be. It's not
nutritious enough to rave about.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:57 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
It's not
> nutritious enough to rave about.


Hi Jess,
I think part of the rave reviews concerning tripe, at least for my 3
dogs, is how much they really like it. It might not be better for
them and is only as useful as any part of a critter is useful in the
scheme of things, but mine go doggy nuts when tripe is being served.
Plus, i get a kick out of watching them shake their heads before they
eat it. I guess i think it helps them connect to their instinctual
side on some level.
KathyM who probably analyzes stuff too much

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
Posted by: "Greta Hill" GretaHill@aol.com sunstate23
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:56 am ((PDT))

The dogs love it. Last year when one of my dogs was sick and turned
down everything else, she would still eat tripe. Plus it's fairly
inexpensive, and helps add variety to the menu.

Greta

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

6d. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:39 am ((PDT))

"spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@...> wrote:
>
> Why do people rave about this tripe business when wolves supposedly
> don't eat stomach contents?
*****
Wolves rarely eat the stomach CONTENTS of large prey. They do however
eat the stomach TISSUE after flinging the contents to the four winds
and scavengers.

Green tripe is the stomach TISSUE with some--little--contents stuck
onto it.

The people who are feed "stomach grass" are trying to emulate something
that doesn't happen.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

6e. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
Posted by: "Denise and David Spotila" brookside_casa@yahoo.com brookside_casa
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:53 am ((PDT))

I have not been able to find a nutritional breakdown on tripe anywhere. Does anyone know where to find this info?

David and Denise Spotila


Brookside Casa
Standard Poodles
Great minds discuss ideas
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.
E Roosevelt


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

6f. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:58 am ((PDT))

Denise and David Spotila <brookside_casa@...> wrote:
>
> I have not been able to find a nutritional breakdown on tripe
anywhere. Does anyone know where to find this info?
*****
http://www.greentripe.com

Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Goose Bones
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:06 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jennifer_hell" <jenniferhell@...>
wrote:
>
> Bill, I wrote about how I pierced my finger on a turkey needle shaped
> bone in my dog's poop (when I picked it up with a plastic bag, it
> pierced the plastic and my finger).

Jennifer, I remember your post. I will say that of the 5 years I've
been on several raw feeding lists, I can't remember hearing of anyone
else getting cut by a partially digested bone. That should show you
how common it is. :)

> I heard some people say that bones
> get digested better when the dog has accustomed to raw. Is that true?

Yes, It has to do with the dogs digestive juices getting more acidic
when they eat a raw diet.

> I have to admit I was a little shocked at the sharpness of the bone
> and the fact that it went through the intestines sharp like that.

That should show you that our dogs are not as fragile as some would
think. :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale


Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Goose Bones
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:35 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:

> That should show you that our dogs are not as fragile as some would
> think. :)
>
Thank you, Bill. I hope she'll digest the bones better over time.
Perhaps most people don't realize the very sharp pieces in their dogs
poop, if they don't have to pick it up. Lol!
I'm not scared Mandy will hurt herself. She also chews everything
well, IMO.

Jennifer with Mandy

Messages in this topic (5)
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8a. Has anyone heard of Nature's Variety Prairie?
Posted by: "tlduran1" tlduran1@yahoo.com tlduran1
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:56 am ((PDT))

I have someone wanting to buy a pup from me and so I've been telling
her about the raw feeding. She says she feeds the Nature's Variety
Prairie. She wanted to know if she could switch between raw and this
food. I checked it out online...........but was wondering what others
in this group know about it, and if they had any ideas on how to talk
to her about raw feeding. She really likes this food...
Anyway, thanks in advance, I anxiously await to hear what others have
to say!
Tara

Messages in this topic (3)
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8b. ADMIN/Re: Has anyone heard of Nature's Variety Prairie?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:50 am ((PDT))

Please take this topic to RawChat or private.
Thank you.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (3)
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8c. Re: ADMIN/Re: Has anyone heard of Nature's Variety Prairie?
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:56 am ((PDT))

Or to the trash, where such products belong? <grin>

On 10/23/07, costrowski75 <Chriso75@aol.com> wrote:
> Please take this topic to RawChat or private.
> Thank you.
> Chris O
> Mod Team


--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.


Messages in this topic (3)
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9a. Venison! I'm so excited! Bear with me!
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:56 am ((PDT))

Lol! On Thursday I'll be getting venison! That is so great, as it's
not easy to find good stuff here.
They said they have ribs and knuckles, whatever they mean with that? I
hope they left enough meat on it. They have quite a lot, so I already
tried to make space in the freezer.
So: I'm only on week two on raw. Mandy's doing great (55lb pitbull
girl), she has no problems with diarrhea, vomitting, loose stool,
everything's perfect.
Because I'm having such a hard time to find stuff, I ran out of
chicken and only had carcasses and hearts left. I added beef muscle
meat then, and she's doing great with carcasses, heart and beef. Then
someone gave me turkey drums, the very meaty thick kind from free
range poultry. I know, that's wayyy early, but I didn't want it to
waste, so I fed her one and a little beef meat. She's doing great.I
froze the rest,cramped it into the freezer (sheesh, freezers look so
big first, and then nothing fits in!)
Am I jinxing all this if I introduce venison next week? I know I have
to wait longer to give her liver, and I do wait. But the venison, if
it has enough meat, would add more meat to her diet. If it doesn't
have much meat, it's pretty useless, right?
Are ribs okay? And what about knuckles?
Gah, thanks for reading all this. Can you tell I'm just a tiny bit
excited? Lol!

Jennifer with Mandy

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: Venison! I'm so excited! Bear with me!
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:01 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jennifer_hell" <jenniferhell@...>
wrote:
> Am I jinxing all this if I introduce venison next week?

Hi Jennifer,
Absolutely not, imo. Venison is probably top feed choice on my list,
both for species appropriateness and doggy reviews.

> Are ribs okay? And what about knuckles?
This is just how it works out for me. I let mine eat any bone as long
as it is covered with something--meat, skin, hair... I don't know how
you are getting the deer but i imagine if you are getting knuckles you
will be getting the whole leg which i doubt will be stripped naked
because i don't think anyone bothers to do that. So assuming anything
you get is covered with something edible for your dog, i would feed
it. When Mandy has stripped them there bones down to naked bones take
them away and toss them. I don't count these types of bone as a meal,
though, and would consider them an excellent keep a dog busy, chew
work out and doggy fun activity. Just feed a little less food,
depending on how much meat is actually on the bones, so you don't over
feed Mandy and give her diarrhea from too much food.

KathyM who thinks you should be waaayyy excited, Great Score

Messages in this topic (2)
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