[rawfeeding] Re: Stubborn Animals - update

Hi, Virginia!
Sounds like you have a good handle on things!
As per gorge 'n fast - if they're eating a lot at one meal, and
skipping the next - they are well on their way!
Gorge - real gorge, is offering BIG FOOD, a whole chicken or half
turkey or fresh ham - letting them eat their fill and walk away. Skip
the next couple of meals/days, then offer a snack or small meal for
the next couple of meals/days, until their interest in food returns.
I'd feed 'real food' for the first meal of a day then, if they are
eating a large meal and refuse the next offering, no nutrition lost.
As for the pup, if he's eating a large meal, and refusing the next
meal too, no worries! I'd always offer a second meal a day to him for
the next few months, tho'.
I'd plan on using the duck feet as a treat, not part of their diet,
and the pork hocks, too. Not much meat there, mostly skin, gristle and
bone.
An a big GOOD JOB for your cat!! : )
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Just had to share.. :) I'm (mostly) very pleased with the way things
> are progressing.

> Cat (MillieFussBudget) - has discovered that she likes chunks of
chicken
> breast meat - with no "training wheels". :) She's been eating cut up
> anchovy in tuna/egg/shell, had chicken breast yesterday - ate all of
it,
> came to me when I put her dish down tonite and started eating. :)
>
> We're rolling! :)
>
> Virginia in Milwaukee
>

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[rawfeeding] Re: concerned about allergies

Hi, Darlene!
Welcome, and Congratulations for feeding raw!
Its a great idea to can the mush - not needed by your dogs and too
much work! lol
Might be a good idea, too, to move on to a new protein at this point,
variety over time and all that, ya know.
For your Basset pup, it sounds like contact dermatitis to me - not a
food allergy.
I would look at something in his environment that changed prior to the
appearance of the warm redness and chin sores. New shampoo, detergent,
floor/carpet cleaner? New car, something new at daycare, new bedding,
new slipcovers, lawn treatments? Could be as simple as grass cuttings
or you may need to do a deep search list and eliminate possible
causes. The key word here, I think, is contact, something he lies on
or near frequently.
HTH
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> hello everyone, i have mostly been a lurker...soaking up all kinds of
> great information on raw feeding. i started my three basset hounds on
> raw about 6 weeks ago. i love it, they love it! learning a lot!
> my question is this. my young basset is warm and red under his
> armpits...and sores under his chin. what is the best way to start
> finding out what is triggering his allergy.
> tomorrow i am stopping his veggie mush and feeding him strictly
> chicken. then i will see if it clears up, or if chicken is the
> culprit. does this sound logical? any ideas are appreciated.
> darlene and the curtisclan
>

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[rawfeeding] Re: Starting Raw feeding

Hi, Kate!
Welcome!
Just jump in!
You can learn and ask questions as you go along!
Toss out the kibble, buy a couple of chickens, cut them in quarters,
and feed one quarter at a meal.
Easy, eh?
TC
Giselle

> Hi Everyone,
> I have just joined the group. I have a two year old male Boxer Billy.
> We are not currently on a raw food diet, however I can see the benefits
> and the logic. Therefore I would like to start Billy on a raw diet.
> As he is not currently on it I would like to know if I should just
> start him or whether I should ease him in to it?
> Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
> Thanks
> Kate
>

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[rawfeeding] Re: concerned about allergies

thanks for the reply. no he never had this problem, but once i had wondered if he was sensitive to chicken canned merrick food that i used to add to his kibble. so i am going to go strickly meat. chicken first, then i will try beef, and see how he does.  i have fish, hamburger, livers and assorted veggies in his mush, along with yogurt...so it would be harder i think to determine the trigger. so meat i will start in the am and i will post my results.
darlene and the curtisclan
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Re: [rawfeeding] concerned about allergies

do you feed him out of a plastic bowl? or is his crate plastic?? I had a friend who's dog was allergic to plastic and what you have described sounds like what her dog had - Hope this helps -
Tracy & girls

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[rawfeeding] sweetbreads

I found sweetbreads,beef kidney,beef heart, beef cheek, and ox tails
today at walmart. I know you have to becareful with the amount of liver
that you give dogs, but how rich is the other orgon meats. I will add
some with thier meals, but how big of a piece? The ox tails are cut, so
is the bone in them going to be ok? The bone looks like a softer bone
than the other beef bones. They are about 2" long. The beef cheek, I am
thinking is no different than a roast or steak, am I right? Up to this
point I have given chicken gizzards, chicken hearts. Neither one is
crazy about the liver so I split a can of mackrel or salmon between
them three times a week, and add the liver in it. They get the fish for
breakfast. The rest of the time they get half of a chicken, chicken leg
quarters, a nice jucy roast, or part of a turkey for their once a day
meals. I havn't included pork yet, but have bought some pork roast on
sale. So I will give it a try in another week or two. I've been feeding
raw for about 6 weeks now.
Thanks for any advise

Monell

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[rawfeeding] Re: gnaw-worthy bones

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
>
> "temy1102" <yumyumsoop@> wrote:
> what are some similar accessible bones that i should
> > keep an eye out for to give her some chewtime?
> *****
> I am a big fan of whole cow feet, not hooves--feet. Hair removed,
skin
> on; maybe as much as two pounds each, from hoof north to above the
> fetlock (wrist). Typically some cannon bone ais included; this
> contains marrow.
>
> My big Lab needs at least an hour to work through the skin and
> connective tissue and small bones and marrow. I take away the bare
> length of cannon bone. My other retrievers may work on a foot for
> several days.
>
> Calf or lamb heads are also terrific chew toys.
>
> Some people have good luck with deer antlers. No question they are
> more socially acceptable than either cow feet or calf heads!
> Chris O
>

***When feeding cow feet, pig feet, or any of the various heads
mentioned, do you have to be careful about them eating too much
bone? I've never fed any of those before and am looking for some
good teeth cleaners.

Sorry if asking a question within someone else's topic like this is
considered hijacking. I thought it would be ok since it pertained to
the original topic.

Michael Wise

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[rawfeeding] Re: Dogs do not like chicken

When first adding turkey to my dog's diet, he would not eat it.
Someone on this list recommended rubbing meat with garlic, so I took
some minced garlic in a zip-loc bag and added the turkey pieces and
"smooshed" it around and let marinate for a couple hours before
feeding. He ate it like it was the best thing he had ever had and
from then on, no problems eating turkey. I've also read putting
parmaesan cheese on the meat can help. Most lamb, goat & pork bones
are digestable as well. Pork picnic roasts are fairly inexpensive
where I live. I have also found boneless pork loins at Sam's Club(I'm
in northern CA) for $1.49/lb for nice meaty meals. Hope this helps!
Good luck!

-Kaity & Ziggy the Dane

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "grwalter2001" <rmoondance@...> wrote:

> This is making me sad as the best deals are chicken by far. Does
> anyone else have this problem? If I stop feeding poultry, what other
> meats have bones that they consume. I'm pretty new to this. This list
> is awesome.
>
> Thanks
> Regina
>

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[rawfeeding] New puppy, transitioning to raw

Hello everyone!
I will be getting a Mini Aussie puppy, should be about 16-17 inches
according to his breeder, in a little over a week. He is my first dog
(not counting the dog I grew up with, since I didn't raise him myself)
and since I long ago decided to raise him naturally (raw fed and
minimum vaccinations if any) I have a lot of questions. There is so
much more information and propaganda out there in favor of kibble,
it's hard to get a sense of exactly how to start him on his new diet,
how much of what he should be getting etc. So help would be
appreciated!!!

My understanding is that, at least as a puppy he should be getting
about 10% of his body weight a day, is that correct? Also, I
understand it's important to include organ meat in his diet, is there
a particular percentage that is recommended? And finally, does anyone
have suggestions for getting cheap dog-friendly meat? I was
considering contacting a local butcher, but other ideas are welcome as
well!

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[rawfeeding] Re: Has anyone heard of this product - Sandee

> I wouldn't recommend it, Carol. If you need a digestive enzyme,
get a good
> product that doesn't contain everything but the kitchen sink...and
one that
> isn't plant based. Is there a reason you think you need the
enzymes?
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang

Hi Sandee,

Do a refresh here. If you could recomend a good one even if you
don't think he needs it now and have a better suggestion, maybe I
should have one on hand.

Dog 9 &1/2 Lbs - 9yrs old

Got hit by dog food recall - vomiting one day some 15 or more times.

Bun showed higher than normal, not off the charts but some damage
Retest next month

Never had a regular stool since starting on raw
1 stool at the start was lighter and firm then
pudding/ black. 4 ot 5 days between stools.

Cysts that were there before raw started growing quickly and
had to have surgery to drain them.

Been on antibotics since surgery last Tuesday.

Feeding - different parts of chicken and beef so far, tried pork but
he didn't
like it yet. Using Salmon oil - 1 capsule every other day.

Did give him slippery elm capsul at 2 different meals and he had a
fairly normal stool.Dark/ semi-firm

Right now giving pro botics 2x a day at vets recomendation and
antibotic of ampicillin 1x a day.

Today for the first time he had what I would consider a normal stool.
formed and medium dark, able to be picked up in one piece. The only
odd part is it was quite large from what it has been.

That lead me to believe that he probably needs some type of enzyeme
added to his diet to help boost his
immune system and regulate his stomach juices.

I may be on the wrong track so any advice is appreciated.

Carol & Charkee the Russian

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[rawfeeding] Re: Talk about stubborn! (Dog won't eat liver)

> Twice now I have had to basically force feed liver to my very
> stubborn
> Dalmatian. The first time he went 4 days without eating and still
> wouldn't eat the liver.

Well, isn't that nice. Force-feeding without medical foundation is
unnecessary at best. Some might call it cruel.

Cruelty aside, you DO know that some Dalmatians are predisposed to
urinary-tract stones, right? And that dietary purines (of which organ
meats are a rich source) have been implicated in the formation of
those stones? Many breeders recommend low-purine diets for Dals for
this reason. Maybe your Dal's instincts are telling him something you
don't know about. See www.thedca.org for more info about this.

> The time for liver rolls around again
> and he does the same thing - only I don't let the battle of wills
> drag
> out for 4 days.

The good news? Training is taking place. The bad? Your dog is
training you.

> Stubborn dog! Anyone else run into this issue where a dog would
> rather
> starve for 4 days rather than eat liver?

Are you sure it's the dog who is being stubborn?

When my father was a boy, he was made to kneel on rice kernels in the
corner for hours if he didn't clean his plate. Perhaps this was
because the food he left behind was essential to his nutrition...but
it could also be that my grandmother was just a little nuts.

Rod

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[rawfeeding] Re: Other than greentripe.com

"trayc2244" <BreeZ119@...> wrote:
>
> Are there other places besides greentripe.com to order from.
> Greentripe.com sounds great and I may still order from there, but I
> was hoping to find a place closer to me (Georgia) to keep the
shipping
> cost down as much as possible.
*****
Prey4Pets is in Kentucky.
http://www.prey4pets.com/servlet/StoreFront

You might also want to post your question to the CarnivoreFeed-Supplier
list.
Chris O

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[rawfeeding] Re: Can Switching over to raw........

> Can switching over to raw cause the dog to be distressed in any way?
> Like stomach aches, pain, anxiety? My pup seems to be not herself
today
> and this is the second dsy of feeding poultry.
>
> She is also on anti biotics because of ticks too....

Hi Pauline,

It may be the antibotic messing with her tummy.
I have my dog on an antibotic now too. It messed him up and
the vet gave him a pro-botic. It's ok but wanting better ordered
the NSI brand online from vitacost. It has a lot more different
strains in it.

Carol & Charkee the Russian

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[rawfeeding] Re: Tripe

"Mary" wrote:

Cathy,

I just cut up my first chunk of green tripe (I looked at it again and it was
green!) into treat size portions and put them into the freezer. They are
going to be served as treats. The freezing of the tripe may change the idea
for your dog who doesn't want it.

==========================================================

Thank you for that suggestion. I'll give it a try. She tends to be very
fussy
about what she will and won't eat!

Cathy :)

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[rawfeeding] Re: Tripe

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES!***

Chris O wrote:

Cathy Doyle <cathyd@...> wrote:
> We have 3 dogs, two of them love tripe the 3rd won't touch it! She
sniffs at
> it and walks away. Any suggestions on how I can get this dog to eat
tripe
> would be most appreciated.
*****
If it's coarse ground, mix it into some ground meat; if you can choose
from a variety of tripe blends, choose a different one. If you are
feeding tripe in sheets, try making access easier for her. Try lamb
tripe instead of beef (or vice versa). Try drizzling tuna juice or
liver juice over it (assuming of course she likes liver).

If she can't stand tripe now, give it up for several months then try
again.

She has a problem with being gassy and I suspect
> the tripe might help with this problem (If I can only get some into
her! :)
*****
I've never seen tripe to address gassiness but that doesnt' mean it
won't help hers.

Well, we are still fairly new to raw and I'm hoping the digestive enzymes
in the tripe will help, as I suspect her problem has to do with her system
not having adjusted to the raw diet yet. She'll stink you out of the house
at times! I need to find a solution to this problem!

Cathy :)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[rawfeeding] Re: How long should I wait?

"Pauline" <pblondeau46@...> wrote:
>
> How long should we wait to allow our dog vigirous activity after
eating
> a raw meal?
*****
Depends on the dog and what the dog ate, at the least. After a
really big meal (perhaps more than 3% of body weight) I'd imagine
you'd want to wait at least an hour if not more. After a small meal,
say the sort of meal you might feed if you were feeding two meals a
day, an hour ought to do it and maybe less than an hour would be
sufficient.

I fed one of my dogs a baby goat today. Dog weighs maybe 65 pounds,
goat probably weighed seven or eight pounds (I didn't weigh it).
That's over 10% body weight. My dog has been sacked out for two
hours now and I don't expect to hear much from her until morning. We
won't likely be doing anything vigorous then either.

I suggest if you know you've got vigorous exercise in your plans to
arrange the meals accordingly. Feed after the exercise, or feed a
small meal prior and a larger meal later; feed a smaller meal that
day and a larger meal the following day. There are many ways to feed
so there's really no need to stuck between a good meal and a good run.
Chris O

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[rawfeeding] Re: gnaw-worthy bones - Chris O

"tottime47" <tottime@...> wrote:
> I can just see you throwing a couple of lamb heads out
> in the yard, lol. I just can't see me doing it......
*****
Ah, but you've just begun. It's quite remarkable how one's will nots
and cannots change with time and experience.

> What'd one poster say, nothing they have to wear hiking boots
> to eat?
*****
That was Carolyn who has a bitsy five pound poodle. I have no doubt
though that her bitsy poodle wouldn't mind the challenge.

My heathen golden girl will eat anything anyhow. A few years ago
when I was able to get venison, I heaved into the yard a
neck/shoulder/spine combo that was easily three feet long. Pippin
was at one point in her feasting standing in the hunk of carcass,
holding it down and tearing meat from it. Didn't need no hiking
boots for THAT! What a great event that was.
Chris O

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Re: [rawfeeding] Can Switching over to raw........

Pauline,

Sounds like your little girl has a lot going on...

Antibiotics alone can really tear up your gut...and you say that it's
"because of ticks" - has she been diagnosed with a TBD? Or is this a
preventative thing? In any case, do some googling on the side effects of
the antibiotic you're using. "Stomach upset" is one of the most common side
effects of these meds, but you need to be aware of others in case she has a
problem with her particular prescription. And as always, when in doubt,
inform your vet.

Something you may want to look into is probiotics. A nice human grade
enteric coated product given at least two hours away from the antibiotic may
help settle her gut. We've recently had a brief discussion on just this
subject, so check the archives and you'll be able to catch up.

Casey

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[rawfeeding] Re: Bully Sticks

"Cathy Tweeddale Mitchell" <duckndogs@...> wrote:
> Given that, how would you be able to tell if a body part is "quality"
or not?
*****
Way I see it, any body part is a quality part if the critter what
originally owned it considered it quality. I suspect the bull was
quite proud of that particular body part. If you mean how does one
know if the body part has been processed properly--I use "made in USA"
as a guideline and also no flavorizers, seasoning, glazes, etc. (sort
of how I prefer my not-processed meat to be).

I'm sure there are other guidelines in use as well.
Chris O

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[rawfeeding] Stubborn Animals - update

Just had to share.. :) I'm (mostly) very pleased with the way things
are progressing.

Fozzy doesn't like chicken again today. He had pork hocks to munch on
this morning, but then didn't want to eat any "real" food later. He
doesn't like duck feet (yet) either. :p Oh well. He'll get there. His
dish (with brunch from today) is in the fridge, hopefully he'll eat that
tomorrow.. I have one more day's worth of chicken in the fridge, then
we'll go on to something else for a bit.

Moxie - the puppy.... LOVES his raw food. He munches duck feet like
they're potato chips. Oh, and egg shells. He's not crazy about liver,
but I can trick him by whirring it up with an egg. Not worried about
that part. He crunched up 8 or so duck feet, then downed a 1+ # piece
of chicken breast (bone in) this morning, and went looking for more.
It's more than I usually feed him, but I wanted to see if he'd stop.
I'd like to get to gorge/fast with both of them, but so far we're at
feed once a day (if they feel like eating - they've both skipped
meals). Question - he's 10 months old. Is he too young to gorge/fast?
I'd like to see how much he can eat and then how he'd do with it.
He's so funny! I can't wait to see him with a pig's foot (they're in the
freezer, we're progressing) - it's almost as big as he is!

Ferret (Burger King) - is now eating strips (fairly substantial) of
chicken breast. I tried her on a duck foot, but she wasn't interested.
I think I'll try her with an anchovy tomorrow, without cutting it up, or
maybe cut it in half lengthwise, and see what she does with it.

Cat (MillieFussBudget) - has discovered that she likes chunks of chicken
breast meat - with no "training wheels". :) She's been eating cut up
anchovy in tuna/egg/shell, had chicken breast yesterday - ate all of it,
came to me when I put her dish down tonite and started eating. :)

We're rolling! :)

Virginia in Milwaukee

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Re: [rawfeeding] Dogs in Elk (was Green Tripe)

On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 17:24:16 -0700 (PDT) joan spencer
<nachoburrito@yahoo.com> writes:
> Well, in the morning there was no trace or bag or contents (lucky
> coyotes!)
>

LOL!! Good story, and good idea about finding a mobile slaughterer!

For some reason your story made me think of that hilarious Dogs in Elk
story.

Most of you "old timers" are familiar with it, but if you haven't read it
and want to seriously lighten up your day, read on!

It happened in 1999 when a woman named Anne Verchick got a call from a
game processor to ask if she wanted to come pick up some elk for her
dogs.

Her first mistake was to bring a couple of the dogs along, and her second
mistake was not noticing that one of her windows was cracked, giving the
dogs a chance to get out and.... well, you just have to read the
transcript of the email conversation for yourself.

There is a good version at http://www.dogchurch.org/restroom/elk.html

There is a hilarious one illustrated with pumpkin carvings at
http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~solan/dogsinelk/

Enjoy!

Cheers,
Barb Bristol
Symmetry Danes
http://symmetrydanes.freeservers.com/

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[rawfeeding] Re: green tripe

***EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

They each get approximately 10-12 ounces of food daily. The puppy
gets fed three times a day, the older two twice a day.

Oh....I feed this like a regular meal? I thought it would be like
organ meat, just a small amount every few days or so. Not so?

Joanne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "marblekallie" <marble@...> wrote:
>
> Hi:
>
> That would be the way I would go. How much do you usually feed? I
> would think that would be just about 2 meals worth for your crew.
>
> Philippa Jordan
> New York City
>

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Re: [rawfeeding] concerned about allergies

Hi Darlene,

What exactly are you feeding? Did he have these same problems before you
switched to raw?

Yes, it sounds very logical to get rid of veggies mush! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "thecurtisclan" <pumbaahound@aol.com>

hello everyone, i have mostly been a lurker...soaking up all kinds of
great information on raw feeding. i started my three basset hounds on
raw about 6 weeks ago. i love it, they love it! learning alot!
my question is this. my young basset is warm and red under his
armpits...and sores under his chin. what is the best way to start
finding out what is triggering his allergy.
tomorrow i am stopping his veggie mush and feeding him strictly
chicken. then i will see if it clears up, or if chicken is the
culprit. does this sound logical? any ideas are appreciated.
darlene and the curtisclan

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[rawfeeding] concerned about allergies

hello everyone, i have mostly been a lurker...soaking up all kinds of
great information on raw feeding. i started my three basset hounds on
raw about 6 weeks ago. i love it, they love it! learning alot!
my question is this. my young basset is warm and red under his
armpits...and sores under his chin. what is the best way to start
finding out what is triggering his allergy.
tomorrow i am stopping his veggie mush and feeding him strictly
chicken. then i will see if it clears up, or if chicken is the
culprit. does this sound logical? any ideas are appreciated.
darlene and the curtisclan

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Re: [rawfeeding] Can Switching over to raw........

Pauline,

What parts are you feeding?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Pauline" <pblondeau46@yahoo.ca>

Can switching over to raw cause the dog to be distressed in any way?
Like stomach aches, pain, anxiety? My pup seems to be not herself today
and this is the second dsy of feeding poultry.

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Re: [rawfeeding] Dogs are carnivores

Lynda,

Just about anything you want to know will be included in the rawfeeding
myths site.....
http://rawfed.com/myths/index.html

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Lynda Eichler" <lynda.eichler@clear.net.nz>
>
> I have a friend (who is a raw-foodist) who had her dogs on a vegan diet.
They didn't thrive at all and their condition was terrible. She hence
seeked help from a raw-foodist expert who recommended that she include
marrow-bone in the dogs diet and put them exclusively on a mix of banana,
avocado and marrow-bone (no meat needed). Apparently their condition has
improved drastically to the point where they are a picture of health.
>
> In telling her my choice of dog diet she immediately argued that dogs are
omnivores. Through my research I am 98% sure that yes indeed a carnivorous
diet is natural and necessary, but I wonder if there is any website
information that somebody can point me, so I can educate myself further. I
tried the two websites listed at the bottom of the file 'Dogs are
Carnivores', but got rather lost.

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[rawfeeding] How long should I wait?

How long should we wait to allow our dog vigirous activity after eating
a raw meal?

Thanks for your help.
Pauline

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[rawfeeding] Other than greentripe.com

Are there other places besides greentripe.com to order from.
Greentripe.com sounds great and I may still order from there, but I
was hoping to find a place closer to me (Georgia) to keep the shipping
cost down as much as possible. Thanks.

Tracy

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[rawfeeding] Can Switching over to raw........

Can switching over to raw cause the dog to be distressed in any way?
Like stomach aches, pain, anxiety? My pup seems to be not herself today
and this is the second dsy of feeding poultry.

She is also on anti biotics because of ticks too........oh and she was
spayed two weeks ago. I don't know why but I am worried about her. She
can't seem to sit still this afternoon. Like she is restless.

Any help would be appreciated.

Pauline

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[rawfeeding] Dogs are carnivores

Hi there

I have a friend (who is a raw-foodist) who had her dogs on a vegan diet. They didn't thrive at all and their condition was terrible. She hence seeked help from a raw-foodist expert who recommended that she include marrow-bone in the dogs diet and put them exclusively on a mix of banana, avocado and marrow-bone (no meat needed). Apparently their condition has improved drastically to the point where they are a picture of health.

In telling her my choice of dog diet she immediately argued that dogs are omnivores. Through my research I am 98% sure that yes indeed a carnivorous diet is natural and necessary, but I wonder if there is any website information that somebody can point me, so I can educate myself further. I tried the two websites listed at the bottom of the file 'Dogs are Carnivores', but got rather lost.

Thanks for reading
Lynda (NZ)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[rawfeeding] Re: enhanced chicken

> Does this mean I shouldn't feed it to the dogs, That my husband and
I'll be
> eating chicken for awhile?

Interesting bit about "enhanced" meat here:
http://virtualweberbullet.com/enhancedmeat.html

Rod

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[rawfeeding] Starting Raw feeding

Hi Everyone,
I have just joined the group. I have a two year old male Boxer Billy.
We are not currently on a raw food diet, however I can see the benefits
and the logic. Therefore I would like to start Billy on a raw diet.
As he is not currently on it I would like to know if I should just
start him or whether I should ease him in to it?

Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Kate

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[rawfeeding] Thanks, and a banner note

I appreciate the feedback about diet balance and fish! It sounds like
most dogs represented here eat a mixture of different foods, and few
are eating solely whole carcasses. It is hard for me to keep track of
exactly what and how much he is eating this way, but I am pretty
confident that Spike is at least eating better than he was when his
food came out of a bag.

Speaking of which, am I the only one who finds the banner ad Yahoo has
selected for this particular forum ironic...? ;)

Rod

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[rawfeeding] Re: green tripe

Hi:

That would be the way I would go. How much do you usually feed? I
would think that would be just about 2 meals worth for your crew.

Philippa Jordan
New York City

I found a 2 lb. frozen container
> at a new pet store that opened near me and bought it. Now.....what
do I do
> with it? Do I thaw it and then repackage in small portions? How is
it fed?
> I have three beagles....a 20 pounder, a 27 pounder and a puppy that
will be
> about 20 lbs.

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[rawfeeding] Green Tripe

My first green tripe experience was last February. I live in a "cow County", and while driving home past a ranch, saw a mobile slaughterer finishing up a cow. He had an overflowing trash can of stuff.

I stopped, grabbed a plastic trash bag from the back of my truck and went to see what I could get.

He was happy to give me the lower stomach, about 20 pounds or more, which wouldn't fit into the trash can. I drove home, elated, and decided, since it was getting dark and there was snow on the ground, to leave it ouside for the night and deal with it in the morning.

Well, in the morning there was no trace or bag or contents (lucky coyotes!)
I'm going to call him this fall when the weather gets cold and trail him to a job. This time I'll take better care of the treasure!

You might check your yellow pages for this type of slaughterer unless you live, say, in the middle of NYC!

Cheers, Joan (and Rollie, a Standard Poodle/Irish Setter rescue who is IMHO, the most smartest and most graceful canine in the world)

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Kidney,spleen,tripe etc..

Hi,Carina.
>It is increasingly recognized that its absence leads to a predisposition to certain
>infections.

You posted this about feeding spleen,but do you mean that feeding it is necessary? Or not good? I cannot understand which you are suggesting.

Thanks.

yassy

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[rawfeeding] Re: Foods High in Glucosimine

"Susanne MacLeod" <suzmacleod@...> wrote:
>
> Anyone know which food are particularily high in this?
*****
I think we covered this recently. You might want to check April or May
archives for more information.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/glucosamine/NS_patient-glucosamine
"Glucosamine is a natural compound that is found in healthy cartilage.
Glucosamine sulfate is a normal constituent of glycoaminoglycans in
cartilage matrix and synovial fluid.

Available evidence from randomized controlled trials supports the use
of glucosamine sulfate in the treatment of osteoarthritis, particularly
of the knee."

Any body part that includes a joint or other cartilage offers
glucosamine. Joints, chicken feet, chicken/turkey sternum--you should
not have too much trouble finding cartilage and by extension
glucosamine in a good raw diet.
Chris O

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[rawfeeding] Re: Raw feeding is just a fad?

I loved the "Dr"s concern regarding bacteria like e.coli and
salmonella. Those of us that have been feeding raw for a while know
that our dogs handle it just fine and her line about those bacteria
coming out in the stool being a health hazzard just waiting to
happen? Give me a break. It is not like anyone picks up their dog's
poop with a bare hand. We all put our hand in the bag, pick up the
poop and slide the bag over it. We walk away with clean hands and if
the bag happened to have a hole in it we all run in and wash our hands
since who likes having dog poop on our hands. It is also not like any
of us eat our dog's poop. What a ignorant thing for her to say. The
one thing that did hit a point though is that there is no real
research on raw diet. I would never feed anything but raw and it is a
shame that there is no one to do actual research into the benefits of
a raw diet.
Kimberly

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[rawfeeding] Re: Salmon Oil

My cat eats small chunks of raw. I dribble the salmon oil onto the
chunks. She laps the yummy salmon oil off first before she eats the
chunks.

Daisy

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[rawfeeding] Re: pug with mast cell cancer

I read that if the tummor had to go, it was better to
do it crogenically (sorry, I can't spell it, thats when
they freeze it) because it is suppossed to stimulate
their immune system?

And don't let the vet give her any "booster" vaccines
while she's out! I've heard this over and over, while
she was in surgery they brought her shots up to date...

Feeding raw is probably the best thing you can do!

Dawn

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[rawfeeding] Re: funnest thing--snake

My cat brought me a little snake (after he ate bits of
it) and of course, now the dog has decided its ripe
enough to roll in it! Why must they do that? I never
know what the kittty will bring me!

dawn

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[rawfeeding] Re: enhanced chicken

I found a boneless turkey breast in our freezer that has been there
forever and I was planning on cutting it up and handing it out to the
dogs when I noticed it was in a 20% enhanced solution. I knew then I
didn't want to feed it to the dogs, but then when I thought about
feeding it to hubby and myself, I didn't find it to appetizing
either. So I put it back in the freezer. I'm sure we will take it
out and grill it one of these days. My guys got enhanced chicken the
other day and had goopy poop so no "enhancement" for us.
Kimberly

> I decided to take your advice and just feed it to my husband and me.
It is
> Perdue whole chicken, which I tend to eat a lot of anyway, so I just
cut it
> up and we'll grill it. It's only enhanced with seasoned chicken
broth so I'm
> sure we'll find it delish on the grill.

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Re: [rawfeeding] dog won't "rip and tear"

Hi!

I have had two raw fed dogs.

Neither one of them ever did any ripping or tearing.

Both my first and the one I have now (both 55 pound Portuguese Water Dogs)
stand and eat whatever is on their plate.

If it is a chicken breast, for example, with bones (of course), they just
pick it up, bite, chew, a piece will drop, they pick it up, and soon everything
is gone.

No paws are used.

My dog now is 16 months old and has been raw fed since 12 weeks old.

Good luck.

Ann and Norman (Portuguese Water Dog)
San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA

"Never underestimate the warmth of a cold nose."

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Salmon Oil

"Also, do I pour it on a saucer and let them lick it? Or a spoon? I'm kind
of stumped with this because I can't mix it "in" the food (with a chicken
half for instance). :/ Thanks in advance, Wendy J."

I mix ours with a raw egg daily.
--
Tina Berry
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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[rawfeeding] Re: Dry skin and organ meat.

> Right now they're getting raw, but possibly in the wrong
>percentages.
> I started feeding them with chicken quarters (back,thigh and leg).
> Recently, I started adding one egg a week and organ meats once a
>week. I've also started with ground turkey once a week. This gives
me >a five day rotation of chicken, organ, chicken, turkey (w egg),
and >chicken. I give fish oil capsules once a day.
> Do I need to add red meat specifically? It's kinda expensive and
>we're short of cash right now.

Debi,

I am having the same issue as you right now. The diet I am feeding
consists of mainly Chicken quarters, and beef organs(liver / kidney).

My solution for meaty meats is Beef heart ($.60/lb through my raw
feeding coop) and bulk ground beef from superstore(~$1/lb). Its
really hard to feed enough meaty meats for my dog. Even after eating
a 1 lb liver and a few lbs of ground beef his poo is still really
hard and comes out sort of brown and powderey (120lb 1.5 year old
dane).

I get jellous, sometimes it seems like he is eating better then me.

cheers

Ross Senger

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[rawfeeding] Re: dog won't "rip and tear"

Cdandp2@... wrote:
>>
> BUT, he won't "touch" the food with his paws and therefore just
chews intil
> soft and kind of groud and then swallows these huge pieces almost
whole.
> Scares me to bits, but he doesn't seem to be having any
difficulty.
*****
Yeah, I have one like that. He's been rawfed for some years now and
still does not intentionally touch his paws to his food. It IS
scary, sometimes.

I feed him a. small stuff he can just vacuum up or b. big complicated
stuff he cannot stuff down his gullet, even though he does try, even
though he does gag. <sigh>

When I give him whole chicken, I score the skin to make sections that
will separate on their own since he doesn't do it. When I feed him
pork legs I figure on him taking all day to chew the skin. I have to
skin whole rabbits since he simply will not rip through the fur. Of
all my dogs, his canines are the least clean, since he just will not
bite deep and wrench or twist or tear his food.

He vomited
> one night a few pieces of 1/2 inch bone splinters (pork) but ate
them and
> went back to sleep.
*****
This too can be scary but almost always is no big deal. This usually
stops with experience, or becomes a rare event.

>I don't know how much the bones actually weigh and since
> they're embedded IN the meat, how do you know the proportions?
*****
You don't need to know proportions! The percentages we bandy about
are guidelines only. If you know there's a bone in the body part
you're considering but you can't figure out where the bone is exactly
because there's a whole lotta meat there, you've got yourself a
pretty darn good body part.

A whole chicken is a good choice. Whole critters (even if dressed)
will always be good choices.

If however you can see the bone structure, if you can see how the
meat is attached or in fact that there is little meat regardless of
how interesting the bone structure itself may look, then you should
consider a different option OR plan to feed this body part with added
meat OR plan on feeding this body body part infrequently and
anticipate white rock poops.

The pork neck bones one typically finds in supermarkets (even ethnic)
are good examples of "interesting bone but no meat" propects. So are
chicken backs, by and large. And chicken necks.

I've been buying a
> whole chicken and giving him about an eighth of that per day (about
a half
> pound total) and then some meals of bonelss pork loin or beef stew
meat once in
> awhile. He started on frozen raw mix so I give him a few cubes of
that here
> and there (just to get rid of it...don't plan on continuing that
after what
> I've read on this list). He's 25-28 lbs so I'm giving him about
1/2 lb
> (generous) daily in two meals.
*****
You can almost never feed too much meat. If you are feeding an
eighth of a chicken per day with added meat, I'm sure you are feeding
plenty of meat and a reasonable amount of bone. I think you should
feed red meat more often than "once in a while" and that you should
consider feed larger sections of chicken for the workout...but in
terms of getting appropriate amounts of bone and meat into your dog's
diet, you're doing it, yes.

I'm the
> person who believes put my previous cocker into kidney
failure/pancreatitis by
> feeding her an inadequate RMB diet (too many chicken backs...not
enough meat).
*****
I don't think so.
Many people feed chicken backs every day, many people rely profoundly
on chicken necks and wings, and turkey necks, and pork neck bones;
their dogs do not die from pancreatitis and kidney failure. Almost
certainly the pancreatitis arose from whatever caused the kidneys to
fail. And that whatever that was was NOT his diet.

Heck, if that were the case, all Billinghurst fans would have dogs
with kidney failure and pancreatitis! Not.
Chris O

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