Feed Pets Raw Food: Sep 11, 2007

Tuesday, September 11, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12029

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: Newbie
From: Sandee Lee
1.2. Re: Newbie
From: great_dane_devotee
1.3. Re: Newbie
From: great_dane_devotee
1.4. Re: Newbie
From: cmhausrath
1.5. Re: Newbie
From: Morledzep@aol.com
1.6. Re: Newbie
From: Sandee Lee
1.7. Re: Newbie
From: great_dane_devotee
1.8. Re: Newbie
From: great_dane_devotee
1.9. Re: Newbie
From: great_dane_devotee

2a. Tomorrow is one month.....
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)

3a. Re: Different coloured liver and kidneys (for eating, not the dogs
From: k9dine

4a. Grinder
From: geraldinebutterfield
4b. Re: Grinder
From: lizwehrli

5a. giving up!!
From: john
5b. Re: giving up!!
From: Morledzep@aol.com
5c. Re: giving up!!
From: Laura Atkinson
5d. Re: giving up!!
From: cmhausrath
5e. Re: giving up!!
From: great_dane_devotee
5f. Re: giving up!!
From: ANTHONT RODRIGUEZ
5g. Re: giving up!!
From: Karen Swanay
5h. Re: giving up!!
From: katkellm
5i. Re: giving up!!
From: Laurie Swanson

6a. Re: Great article
From: johkemp

7a. Grass Eating
From: Roxane

8. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will sho
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1.1. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:17 pm ((PDT))

Hi Libby,

Once you find a few sources for your food, it becomes pretty simple. Watch
for sales on chickens, turkeys and pork...buy in cases. Being in the middle
of nowhere, I get most of my food from the local markets but I do have a
wholesaler for items like whole hearts, liver and beef cheeks.

If you live in an area that has ethnic markets available, they are generally
a good source. Also hunters, fishermen and taxidermists.

You can feed any beef you don't use for yourself....organs, tripe, tail,
head, etc. The bones are definitely hard, most are inedible and tooth
breakers. You can feed meaty portions and remove the bone once they are
finished.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "great_dane_devotee" <libpowers@mac.com>

I live on 7 acres and raise my own steer for my family's food, but when I
fed a different
dog raw meaty beef bones, she broke a tooth, so I have concluded that beef
is out.

How do you do this and not have it cost so much? And finlly, where do you
get a variety if
meat?

Messages in this topic (109)
________________________________________________________________________

1.2. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:55 pm ((PDT))

How/where do I post a cute picture of my beasts?

Libby
-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Daisy Foxworth" <daisyfoxworth@...> wrote:
>
> The problem I've experienced is that raw feeding takes so much time.
> >
>
> Hi Libby, sounds like you were needlessly complicating your life.
> Take a look here, LOL:
>
> http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes
>
> Daisy
>

Messages in this topic (109)
________________________________________________________________________

1.3. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:57 pm ((PDT))

Thanks, Sandee,

I really appreciate your thoughts. How much do you feed per pound of dog. Also all (or
most) of the pics are of dogs happily chewing away on grass. My Great Dane thinks she's
allergic to rain and I live in Western Washington where it rains for nine months of the year.
Any suggestons on that?

Libby

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Libby,
>
> Once you find a few sources for your food, it becomes pretty simple. Watch
> for sales on chickens, turkeys and pork...buy in cases. Being in the middle
> of nowhere, I get most of my food from the local markets but I do have a
> wholesaler for items like whole hearts, liver and beef cheeks.
>
> If you live in an area that has ethnic markets available, they are generally
> a good source. Also hunters, fishermen and taxidermists.
>
> You can feed any beef you don't use for yourself....organs, tripe, tail,
> head, etc. The bones are definitely hard, most are inedible and tooth
> breakers. You can feed meaty portions and remove the bone once they are
> finished.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "great_dane_devotee" <libpowers@...>
>
>
> I live on 7 acres and raise my own steer for my family's food, but when I
> fed a different
> dog raw meaty beef bones, she broke a tooth, so I have concluded that beef
> is out.
>
> How do you do this and not have it cost so much? And finlly, where do you
> get a variety if
> meat?
>

Messages in this topic (109)
________________________________________________________________________

1.4. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:05 pm ((PDT))

"great_dane_devotee" <libpowers@...> wrote:

> The problem I've experienced is that raw feeding takes so much
time.

I have not found that raw feeding takes any particular time, once you
get used to it. I suspect that the particular diet you were trying
to feed is rather more time-intensive than prey-model raw feeding as
discussed on this list. I don't tend to have a lot of extra time
myself -- I just finished 3 years of law school & am now clerking for
a judge -- so believe me, I'm not interested in wasting a lot of time
on food "preparation." Fortunately there's not much to do with real
raw feeding!

I buy my dog's food primarily from the same grocery store where I buy
my food. I spend maybe -- MAYBE -- an extra 5 minutes in the store
poring over the meat counter or talking to the meat guy. I usually
shop once a week for myself and the dog, at the local Food Lion that
has the best meat dept. (I do scan the circulars as they come in
through the week, and if I need something additional for myself mid-
week, I make a quick run to whatever store has a good deal. Tonight
I'm running out for extra whole chickens at $.58 a pound, since I
need milk anyway.)

Once the groceries are bought, I throw extra stuff into the freezer
but keep most of it in a bin in the fridge. Throughout the week, I
pull stuff out, whack it up as needed, and throw it down on the dog's
towel for supper. Average daily prep / feeding time is less than a
minute. Under 15 minutes a week, even I can handle.

> And cost.

I average $1 a pound for "dog food." Whole chickens can be gotten on
sale for well under that; so can whole turkeys if you watch for them
to be marked down. Pork is reliably available for somewhere close to
$1 a pound, if you're vigilant. I find that I pay about $1.25 for
pork roasts, but it's balanced out by cheap chicken, so I don't worry
about it. I also get lots of beef heart, for $.89 a pound, which is
a staple around here. Those are my main items -- other stuff gets
added in as it goes on sale. I also stay stocked-up on fresh eggs
(good for quickie meals) and ground beef or turkey (since my stay-at-
home dog gets a frozen meat-stuffed Kong every morning).

For my 60ish# dog, who eats around 11# a week, I can definitely
afford $45 a month for an excellent diet. PLUS there are the health-
care costs to be factored in -- I haven't paid for veterinary care
(which used to be a regular thing) in a couple years. I attribute my
dog's excellent health primarily to raw feeding, so the math becomes
even more favorable.

> Does anyone do this who has
> figured out how to bring it into their life?

Believe me, I have a full life besides just feeding the dog (although
Griffin is a huge, tremendously significant portion of my life). If
you have the time to exercise, train, socialize, and provide basic
health care for your dogs, you have time to raw feed them too.

How can we help you get started?

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (109)
________________________________________________________________________

1.5. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:22 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/11/2007 2:58:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,
libpowers@mac.com writes:

My Great Dane thinks she's
allergic to rain and I live in Western Washington where it rains for nine
months of the year.
Any suggestons on that?

Libby,

the only way i know to get dogs to go out in the rain is to go out and play
in the rain yourself and let them watch. my akitas have always been afraid of
the rain.. the baby brat we have now didn't used to be, but the last time it
rained she wouldn't leave the patio, so i had to go out and dance in the rain
to get her to join me.

It most certainly works with my wolfdogs.. we do the same thing with thunder
and fireworks.. when they act fearful of something we go out and play during
thunderstorms and rain storms and we have entire family picnics at fireworks
displays, including scaredy cat woofs.

It only takes a few times before they see that you aren't scared and they
shouldn't be so they will join you.

of course, this is training advise and is OT for rawfeeding..
Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (109)
________________________________________________________________________

1.6. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:24 pm ((PDT))

Hi Libby,

My male weighs 146 and he probably averages 2 1/2 to 3 lbs/day. When I
feed indoors, they each have their own spot on a blanket or towel.

Hey, being in Western Washington, there is a buying group you could take
advantage of. I'm on the opposite side of the State so it isn't feasible
for me, but they order lamb, emu, all kinds of great things! :)

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WAzzuOR_BARF/?yguid=1277053

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "great_dane_devotee" <libpowers@mac.com>

I really appreciate your thoughts. How much do you feed per pound of dog.
Also all (or
most) of the pics are of dogs happily chewing away on grass. My Great Dane
thinks she's
allergic to rain and I live in Western Washington where it rains for nine
months of the year.
Any suggestons on that?

Messages in this topic (109)
________________________________________________________________________

1.7. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:28 pm ((PDT))

Thanks, Sandy. I encountered one other problem when feeding raw, and still do from time
to time when I have offered them a chicken neck. They look at me as though I have two
heads! They seem to be saying, "You expect me to eat that?" If you gradually wean them
over to raw, does that amount to them just eating less and less each day and turning their
noses up at the raw stuff? Do you just wait until they get hungry enough?

THanks,

Libby

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cmhausrath" <cmhausrath@...> wrote:
>
> "great_dane_devotee" <libpowers@> wrote:
>
> > The problem I've experienced is that raw feeding takes so much
> time.
>
>
> I have not found that raw feeding takes any particular time, once you
> get used to it. I suspect that the particular diet you were trying
> to feed is rather more time-intensive than prey-model raw feeding as
> discussed on this list. I don't tend to have a lot of extra time
> myself -- I just finished 3 years of law school & am now clerking for
> a judge -- so believe me, I'm not interested in wasting a lot of time
> on food "preparation." Fortunately there's not much to do with real
> raw feeding!
>
> I buy my dog's food primarily from the same grocery store where I buy
> my food. I spend maybe -- MAYBE -- an extra 5 minutes in the store
> poring over the meat counter or talking to the meat guy. I usually
> shop once a week for myself and the dog, at the local Food Lion that
> has the best meat dept. (I do scan the circulars as they come in
> through the week, and if I need something additional for myself mid-
> week, I make a quick run to whatever store has a good deal. Tonight
> I'm running out for extra whole chickens at $.58 a pound, since I
> need milk anyway.)
>
> Once the groceries are bought, I throw extra stuff into the freezer
> but keep most of it in a bin in the fridge. Throughout the week, I
> pull stuff out, whack it up as needed, and throw it down on the dog's
> towel for supper. Average daily prep / feeding time is less than a
> minute. Under 15 minutes a week, even I can handle.
>
>
> > And cost.
>
>
> I average $1 a pound for "dog food." Whole chickens can be gotten on
> sale for well under that; so can whole turkeys if you watch for them
> to be marked down. Pork is reliably available for somewhere close to
> $1 a pound, if you're vigilant. I find that I pay about $1.25 for
> pork roasts, but it's balanced out by cheap chicken, so I don't worry
> about it. I also get lots of beef heart, for $.89 a pound, which is
> a staple around here. Those are my main items -- other stuff gets
> added in as it goes on sale. I also stay stocked-up on fresh eggs
> (good for quickie meals) and ground beef or turkey (since my stay-at-
> home dog gets a frozen meat-stuffed Kong every morning).
>
> For my 60ish# dog, who eats around 11# a week, I can definitely
> afford $45 a month for an excellent diet. PLUS there are the health-
> care costs to be factored in -- I haven't paid for veterinary care
> (which used to be a regular thing) in a couple years. I attribute my
> dog's excellent health primarily to raw feeding, so the math becomes
> even more favorable.
>
>
> > Does anyone do this who has
> > figured out how to bring it into their life?
>
>
> Believe me, I have a full life besides just feeding the dog (although
> Griffin is a huge, tremendously significant portion of my life). If
> you have the time to exercise, train, socialize, and provide basic
> health care for your dogs, you have time to raw feed them too.
>
> How can we help you get started?
>
> -- sandy & griffin
>

Messages in this topic (109)
________________________________________________________________________

1.8. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:28 pm ((PDT))

Thanks, I'll look into that!

Libby

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Libby,
>
> My male weighs 146 and he probably averages 2 1/2 to 3 lbs/day. When I
> feed indoors, they each have their own spot on a blanket or towel.
>
> Hey, being in Western Washington, there is a buying group you could take
> advantage of. I'm on the opposite side of the State so it isn't feasible
> for me, but they order lamb, emu, all kinds of great things! :)
>
> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WAzzuOR_BARF/?yguid=1277053
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "great_dane_devotee" <libpowers@...>
>
> I really appreciate your thoughts. How much do you feed per pound of dog.
> Also all (or
> most) of the pics are of dogs happily chewing away on grass. My Great Dane
> thinks she's
> allergic to rain and I live in Western Washington where it rains for nine
> months of the year.
> Any suggestons on that?
>

Messages in this topic (109)
________________________________________________________________________

1.9. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:29 pm ((PDT))

Thanks. Yes, we do already go out in the rain to some degree, but I was just wondering
about the dogs eating out in the yard. I have a covered front porch, I suppose I could just
put them out there with their food and see how it goes.

Libby

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 9/11/2007 2:58:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> libpowers@... writes:
>
> My Great Dane thinks she's
> allergic to rain and I live in Western Washington where it rains for nine
> months of the year.
> Any suggestons on that?
>
>
>
> Libby,
>
> the only way i know to get dogs to go out in the rain is to go out and play
> in the rain yourself and let them watch. my akitas have always been afraid of
> the rain.. the baby brat we have now didn't used to be, but the last time it
> rained she wouldn't leave the patio, so i had to go out and dance in the rain
> to get her to join me.
>
> It most certainly works with my wolfdogs.. we do the same thing with thunder
> and fireworks.. when they act fearful of something we go out and play during
> thunderstorms and rain storms and we have entire family picnics at fireworks
> displays, including scaredy cat woofs.
>
> It only takes a few times before they see that you aren't scared and they
> shouldn't be so they will join you.
>
> of course, this is training advise and is OT for rawfeeding..
> Catherine R.
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (109)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Tomorrow is one month.....
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:45 pm ((PDT))

My dog frequently lets her food "age" for some time (days, sometimes). I
think this is mostly to let me know that she would prefer to eat
something else. She never wins this argument, but she's tenacious. Keeps
testing the waters. Eventually she always eats whatever it is.

Carolyn J. Garnaas

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Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Different coloured liver and kidneys (for eating, not the dogs
Posted by: "k9dine" k9dine@yahoo.com k9dine
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:01 pm ((PDT))

I don't know if this is a factor or not in this case, but some meat
is packaged with carbon monoxide which retains the red-red color of
the meat. Maybe the redder ones had more carbon monoxide and the
others didn't have it (through leakage from package or something
else?). Oxygen changes the color of the meat to the browner color
naturally, it is the red-red meat that is unnatural in those packaged
with the CO. If the dates are the same I would suspect this.

From www.beefretail.org:
"Many food products – including some meat products – are packaged
with a small amount of gas to maintain their fresh color and enhance
shelf life. From salad mixes to bottled water, modified atmosphere
packaging (MAP) technology has been used safely for years.

Red meat tends to change from a bright red color to brown or gray
after being exposed to oxygen. This is a natural change in color but
does not mean that the product isn't fresh or edible. The product is
still safe and wholesome despite this change in color. By adding
minute amounts of carbon monoxide at levels permitted by FDA and USDA
to red meat packages, products like ground beef can maintain their
natural appearance throughout their shelf life.

Nothing about carbon monoxide packaging changes the safety of beef or
the advice we provide consumers about safe handling and preparation
of their meat...."

Amanda

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Grinder
Posted by: "geraldinebutterfield" gbutterflied@comcast.net geraldinebutterfield
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:01 pm ((PDT))

I know feeding whole, bone and all is the best way to feed. However,
because we travel so much I can't always give my Brandy the whole
piece to take her time with. I have to have some ground with bone to
feed at these times. I was using my Kitchen Aid for chicken wings+more
meat. Now that appliance isn't sounding so great so I'm looking for a
grinder that will do chicken bones well. There are a lot of messages
around grinding but no mention of what a good brand/model is. Can
anyone help? We are going to be taking of again so need to get one
soon.

Thanks- I love the RAW diet and Brandy loves it even more :-)

geraldine

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Grinder
Posted by: "lizwehrli" lizwehrli@yahoo.com lizwehrli
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:55 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "geraldinebutterfield"
<gbutterflied@...> wrote:
>
> There are a lot of messages
> around grinding but no mention of what a good brand/model is. Can
> anyone help? We are going to be taking of again so need to get one
> soon.
>
> Thanks- I love the RAW diet and Brandy loves it even more :-)
>
> geraldine

Hi Geraldine,

When I first ventured in to rawfeeding, I am ashamed to say I did
grind some chicken for my dog. That only lasted about 2 weeks. The
grinder I bought was off the Northerntool website. It works great.
We now use it for our own ground meats. Now we know what is in the
hamburger us humans eat.

Liz

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. giving up!!
Posted by: "john" luvthisphysique@yahoo.com luvthisphysique
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:24 pm ((PDT))

i am completely exhausted of my dog eating a little bit of his food,
or just him looknig at it!! it's like he does this every couple of
days and it's very frustating. i tried leaving his food for just 15
min, and well that didnt work! i did the whole not feeding him for a
couple of days, and the day after i feed him he went crazy!! but the
following couple of days it went back to the same thing... so i am
pretty much pist, exhausted, and well feel that i am going to give up.
anyone, anyone can you please help with this frustating manner??

Anthony Rodriguez
So Cal

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: giving up!!
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:32 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/11/2007 3:24:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
luvthisphysique@yahoo.com writes:

so i am
pretty much pist, exhausted, and well feel that i am going to give up.
anyone, anyone can you please help with this frustating manner??

Anthony,

no one on this list is going to give you permission to feed kibble because
raw feeding is inconvenient for you.

if you want help with a specific thing we need more info.. what are you
feeding? how big is the dog? how much are you feeding?

And what is wrong with the dog only wanting to eat every other day? lots of
dogs are self-regulators. As long as he doesn't become a stick figure i don't
see any reason why he can't eat less than once a day. My dog rarely eat more
often than every other day and not a single one of the 9 of them is suffering
for it. some are certifiably pudgy (the spoiled rotten collie most notably).

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

5c. Re: giving up!!
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:41 pm ((PDT))

So, if he's only wanting to eat every couple of days...don't sweat it.
Offer him food when you want to (daily, every other day, whichever) and let
him eat when he's hungry. Don't get so emotionally invested in him
eating...it's not that big a deal as long as he eats...eventually.

On 9/11/07, john <luvthisphysique@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> i am completely exhausted of my dog eating a little bit of his food,
> or just him looknig at it!! it's like he does this every couple of
> days and it's very frustating. i tried leaving his food for just 15
> min, and well that didnt work! i did the whole not feeding him for a
> couple of days, and the day after i feed him he went crazy!! but the
> following couple of days it went back to the same thing... so i am
> pretty much pist, exhausted, and well feel that i am going to give up.
> anyone, anyone can you please help with this frustating manner??
>
> Anthony Rodriguez
> So Cal

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

5d. Re: giving up!!
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:47 pm ((PDT))

"john" <luvthisphysique@...> wrote:

> i am completely exhausted of my dog eating a little bit of his food,
> or just him looknig at it!! it's like he does this every couple of
> days and it's very frustating.

Is your dog in good health?
Is your dog maintaining a decent weight?

If both of these are yeses, then I implore you to STOP making your
dog's issue your issue. Whatever he chooses to eat or not eat, why get
stressed about it??

A personal digression, to make my point: I once had a very frustrating
job, where no one else seemed to be doing THEIR jobs, so I had more
work. During the time that I had to continue working there, I forced
myself to develop very clear guidelines about what was my job and what
WASN'T. I now have a mental shorthand -- "NMJ" reminds me that
something is not my job and is not worth getting my panties in a knot
about.

IMO, providing the dog with a healthy, varied raw diet is YOUR job.
Eating said diet is your DOG's job.
If you're doing your job, then his job is his business.

If the answers to those questions are NOT yes, then we do need more
information to be able to help.

-- sandy & griffin (both doin' our own jobs)

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

5e. Re: giving up!!
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:28 pm ((PDT))

Wow, that was a great response-- actually everyone basically said the same thing. I was a
little worried about that myself, because one of my dogs likes to keep herself pretty lean.
The other will eat pretty well. So this was a big concern. But you are saying that they
won't necessarily eat every day. Freedom!

Thanks!

Libby

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cmhausrath" <cmhausrath@...> wrote:
>
> "john" <luvthisphysique@> wrote:
>
> > i am completely exhausted of my dog eating a little bit of his food,
> > or just him looknig at it!! it's like he does this every couple of
> > days and it's very frustating.
>
>
> Is your dog in good health?
> Is your dog maintaining a decent weight?
>
> If both of these are yeses, then I implore you to STOP making your
> dog's issue your issue. Whatever he chooses to eat or not eat, why get
> stressed about it??
>
> A personal digression, to make my point: I once had a very frustrating
> job, where no one else seemed to be doing THEIR jobs, so I had more
> work. During the time that I had to continue working there, I forced
> myself to develop very clear guidelines about what was my job and what
> WASN'T. I now have a mental shorthand -- "NMJ" reminds me that
> something is not my job and is not worth getting my panties in a knot
> about.
>
> IMO, providing the dog with a healthy, varied raw diet is YOUR job.
> Eating said diet is your DOG's job.
> If you're doing your job, then his job is his business.
>
> If the answers to those questions are NOT yes, then we do need more
> information to be able to help.
>
> -- sandy & griffin (both doin' our own jobs)
>

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

5f. Re: giving up!!
Posted by: "ANTHONT RODRIGUEZ" luvthisphysique@yahoo.com luvthisphysique
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:29 pm ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!

yeah he still has alot of energy and loves to play
still. so that's a good sign. i do agree though that
it's more of an issue that he has to eat when i put
the food down.. well basically he eats pork shoulder,
chicken thighs, and chicken breast with rib in it...
he eats about 2lbs a day when he does eat...how do you
suggest i feed him as far as types of meats, and how
much?? a rotating program would help alot.. thank you
>
> A personal digression, to make my point: I once had
> a very frustrating
> job, where no one else seemed to be doing THEIR
> jobs, so I had more
> work. During the time that I had to continue
> working there, I forced
> myself to develop very clear guidelines about what
> was my job and what
> WASN'T. I now have a mental shorthand -- "NMJ"
> reminds me that
> something is not my job and is not worth getting my
> panties in a knot
> about.
>
> IMO, providing the dog with a healthy, varied raw
> diet is YOUR job.
> Eating said diet is your DOG's job.
> If you're doing your job, then his job is his
> business.
>
> If the answers to those questions are NOT yes, then
> we do need more
> information to be able to help.
>
> -- sandy & griffin (both doin' our own jobs)
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

5g. Re: giving up!!
Posted by: "Karen Swanay" luvbullbreeds@gmail.com kswanay1111
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:29 pm ((PDT))

FWIW I had a dog that ate only every 2-3 days. He was gorgeous. Perfect
> weight. That was all he needed and all he wanted. If you have a
> self-regulator get on your knees and thank whatever Deity you believe in! I
> have a mini Dachshund for whom there is NEVER enough food ever. I'd much
> rather have a dog like I used to have. Just offer the food...give the dog
> however long you think is good, then pick it up and put it in the fridge.
> Done. Easy-peasy.
>

Karen

>
>

--
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."

LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.

~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

5h. Re: giving up!!
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:42 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "john" <luvthisphysique@...> wrote:
>
> i am completely exhausted of my dog eating a little bit of his food,
> or just him looknig at it!!

Hi Anthony,
Is your dog skinny or sick or losing lots of weight? If not, he is
probably doing his own thing, in his own way, in his own time,and at
his own pace. I think the notion that a dog has to eat everyday,
maybe even twice a day, to be healthy, wealthy, and wise has been so
ingrained in us by the brainwashing techniques of pet food companies
and vets-done for their own personal financial gain and not our pets
well being- that we feel guilty, like we are a failure or don't love
our pets... if our pet's life doesn't match up to their definition of
"right." Your dog might be very happy eating this way and doesn't
understand why you are so stressed. He doesn't watch those pet food
commercials or talk to the vet, so he doesn't know he's doing it
"wrong." KathyM

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

5i. Re: giving up!!
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:57 pm ((PDT))

Try offering food every day or every other day. Offer as big a piece
as you want and let him eat as much as he wants or you want him to eat
(It sounds like he won't overeat too much. With some dogs, we need to
take the food away if they will eat way too much or never stop.). If
he is eating about 2-3% of his ideal adult body weight per day (or
double that if he eats every 2 days), and seems happy, that's about
right. So, if your dog weighs 50 lbs., he'll probably eat about 1-1.5
lbs. per day, or 2-3 lbs. every other day. Some dogs need more or less
and it depends how active he is, etc.

You can feed chicken, turkey, pork, beef, deer, elk, caribou, goat,
lamb, fish, or anything else you can find. Just try a little bit of
new meats to see how he likes it and how it digests. Then you can add
more.

You don't need to have as much of a plan as you think. If he is
getting a good variety, and is eating meat, bone and organ, and he's
happy and healthy, he's fine.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, ANTHONT RODRIGUEZ
<luvthisphysique@...> wrote:

> he eats about 2lbs a day when he does eat...how do you
> suggest i feed him as far as types of meats, and how
> much?? a rotating program would help alot.. thank you

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Great article
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "wandaful" <rondarosa@...> wrote:
>
>
> I love this quote (hope I won't get sued)..."Yes, the dog can act as
a salmonella carrier, but the solution is simple—do not eat dog poop
and wash your hands after picking up after your dog."
>
>
I often use a very similar line in response to YA scaremongers!!

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Grass Eating
Posted by: "Roxane" roxanegraham@yahoo.com roxanegraham
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

I am interested in what this group thinks about dogs that eat grass,
why do you think they eat it?

Roxane

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will sho
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:56 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/11/2007 5:17:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
"dupontracefan" writes:

you just don't know what to do. I have read websites that say they are raw
but yet they have recipes in the files in their groups that they cook
portions (rice, veggie's, etc.)

****
Hi, Diane,

This list has a website with recipes, too--you're gonna love them. :)

(Click on pix to enlarge)

Lynda

_http://rawfed.com/links.html_ (http://rawfed.com/links.html)

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12028

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: coprophagy
From: kahonebay

2a. Re: Is supervision required?
From: Laura Atkinson
2b. Re: Is supervision required?
From: costrowski75
2c. Re: Is supervision required?
From: katkellm
2d. Re: Is supervision required?
From: mousegirls

3a. Re: Goats with possible copper deficiency. Are they still good food?
From: costrowski75
3b. Re: Goats with possible copper deficiency. Are they still good food?
From: Maria

4a. Re: {Raw Feeding} GS Puppy - Aggressive eating puppy
From: Laura Atkinson
4b. Re: {Raw Feeding} GS Puppy - Aggressive eating puppy
From: Andrea

5a. Re: question about rabbits
From: SHERRY LANGEVIN

6a. Tomorrow is one month.....
From: mgn_moore
6b. Re: Tomorrow is one month.....
From: ed_hebel
6c. Re: Tomorrow is one month.....
From: Laurie Swanson

7. Update on Zoe
From: girlndocs

8a. Re: Hank's throwing up
From: mandajenwalker
8b. Re: Hank's throwing up
From: Andrea
8c. Re: Hank's throwing up
From: katkellm

9a. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
From: Sandee Lee
9b. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
From: dupontracefan

10a. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
From: Elizabeth
10b. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
From: lkanaday
10c. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
From: john payne

11.1. Newbie
From: great_dane_devotee
11.2. Re: Newbie
From: Daisy Foxworth
11.3. Re: Newbie
From: great_dane_devotee

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: coprophagy
Posted by: "kahonebay" kahonebay@yahoo.com kahonebay
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:32 am ((PDT))

Hello Steve, I am by FAR an experienced raw feeder, but I have to share with you that my 2 1/2 year old 125 lb. male GSD was a serious poo eater before we started the herd to raw a few months ago. He no longer eats poo. Related to the switch? I personally think so only because it has completely stopped all together and immediately after we switched to raw. He still sniffs at it each time he goes or his sister goes, but he just walks away from it now. Could be coincidence, but either way I'm certainly pleased with the outcome! :)
Good luck!
Kris

>>Has anyone noticed if raw feeding effects changes in a dog with
coprophagy?<<

<<Steve -- in my experience, no. Dogs who were poop-eaters on ki**le remained poop eaters on raw foods...but whether it's related to their diet is unknown...-- Anne Moore>>>

---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Is supervision required?
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:32 am ((PDT))

Sorta. Keep an eye out the window on them. The primary thing you're
watching for is choking or a stuck in the mouth bone. It doesn't happen
often, but when it does, every minute you spend is worth it. You don't have
to hover, obviously, but be aware of them. By now you know their "normal"
eating behaviors, so anything off will cue you to leave the window and head
outside to help if needed.

On 9/11/07, dianna_obrien <dianna_obrien@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I have been told I should supervise their eating but temperatures are
> falling here in Missouri and they eat outside. Do I have to keep
> supervising their meal time?
>
> Dianna

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Is supervision required?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:51 am ((PDT))

"dianna_obrien" <dianna_obrien@...> wrote:
>> I have been told I should supervise their eating but temperatures
are
> falling here in Missouri and they eat outside. Do I have to keep
> supervising their meal time?
*****
How you care for your dogs is absolutely your choice. You do what
works for you and them. You can base your choies on what others do, or
you don't. Myself, I think it makes sense to monitor one's dogs.

I always do; always did when they were fed kibble. I don't care if
it's pouring rain or 100 degrees out there (well, I do, but so what?)
if my dogs are eating, I'm there to supervise the event. Now, normally
I adjust feeding plans to minimize the impact of weather, but if it
happens that weather's there when the dogs are eating, yup, I'm there
too.

I consider meal monitoring part of basic dog ownership responsibility.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: Is supervision required?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:17 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dianna_obrien" <dianna_obrien@...>
wrote:
> I have been told I should supervise their eating but temperatures are
> falling here in Missouri and they eat outside. Do I have to keep
> supervising their meal time?

Hi Dianna,
I live about 2 hours sw of Chicago, always feed outside, and always
stay outside with my dogs. On cold days, actually rainy ones are
worse, i make some coffee and celebrate the moments of my life
standing/sitting outside watching my 3 eat. Its also a great time to
talk on the phone because no one will venture outside and interrupt you
with stupid questions like "Where's my i pod?". KathyM

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Re: Is supervision required?
Posted by: "mousegirls" mousegirls@gmail.com ladysown
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:58 pm ((PDT))

i feed mine outside. I can easily watch from a window but I usually
don't bother. I figure after a year of feeding them, they'll be just
fine. :) They are dogs doing what dogs are supposed to do...eating
their food somewhat off the hoof. :)

annette
http://ladysown.blogspot.com/
http://rileysowner.livejournal.com/
http://vellengaviews.blogspot.com/

"What a man is alone on his knees before God, that he is, and no more".-Robert Murray M'Cheyne
"I believe that prayer is the measure of the man, spiritually, in a way that nothing else is, so that how we pray is as important a question as we can ever face"- J.I. Packer

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Goats with possible copper deficiency. Are they still good food?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:41 am ((PDT))

"Maria" <plava_93@...> wrote:
Her friend Karen has 3 goats that are
> crippled because of probible copper deficiency, she has to kill them
> and take their livers for testing but I can have the rest. Would they
> be OK as about 1/2 of a dogs diet?
*****
Two things. One, probable doesn't mean for sure and two, so what? For
the goat, not good. For a predator that uses opportunity whenever
possible, crippled game is an easy score.

As part of a varied diet, I can't see a possible mineral deficiency
being harmful to your dog. When you say "1/2 a dogs diet" do you mean
it is your intention to rely on nothing more FOREVER AND EVER than
these three goats? Or that you will be relying on them for the time
being? Maybe as the sole source of food eventually you would have to
intervene; but as half the menu only until the three goats are used
up? IMO they're just part of the bigger picture.

> And one is a male in rut, would his "oysters" be good for a treat?
*****
Why not? Your dog will either eat them or he won't. Don't try to
predict the outcome unless you've got previous results to go by.

Feed them goats I say, and rejoice.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Goats with possible copper deficiency. Are they still good food?
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:45 am ((PDT))

I mean I will be feeding goat one day and another meat the next. I have
3 large dogs, there will be about 100-120lbs of goat once I trash the
intestines and that would only last a month but I will also be feeding
other stuff. The crippeled goats have been a on going problem for their
owner so chances are I will be getting more in the futre. I was reading
and goats do tend to have problems with copper but when their meat is
tested is shows normal levels, so after reading that it eased my
worries.

Thank you!
Maria.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> As part of a varied diet, I can't see a possible mineral deficiency
> being harmful to your dog. When you say "1/2 a dogs diet" do you
mean
> it is your intention to rely on nothing more FOREVER AND EVER than
> these three goats? Or that you will be relying on them for the time
> being? Maybe as the sole source of food eventually you would have to
> intervene; but as half the menu only until the three goats are used
> up? IMO they're just part of the bigger picture.

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: {Raw Feeding} GS Puppy - Aggressive eating puppy
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:45 am ((PDT))

Yes <g>

She sounds like a normal puppy to me. A thigh is like a fly to a 6 mo old
Siberian Husky puppy, I can't imagine how much less it means to a GSW.

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: {Raw Feeding} GS Puppy - Aggressive eating puppy
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:12 am ((PDT))

You could feed bigger pieces of food that she has to contend with and
then take the food away when she has had enough. Freezing large food
is a great way to make her really take her time.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...>
wrote:
>
> Is there anything else I can do to slow her down a little?

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: question about rabbits
Posted by: "SHERRY LANGEVIN" luckymermaid@sbcglobal.net SherryL3
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:54 am ((PDT))

Hi,
thanks, I dont want to prep the rabbit, if I dont have to, but thought I'd ask anyway. Very interesting points. Liked reading them.
sincerely,
Sherry

costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote:
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Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Tomorrow is one month.....
Posted by: "mgn_moore" mgn_moore@yahoo.com mgn_moore
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:54 am ((PDT))

since my 3 year old boxer started eating RAW. She has only been given
chicken quarters and one turkey leg. However, she still has very runny
stools (when she goes, which isn't often). She does very well eating
the chicken quarters, but sometimes she acts as if she is not
interested. I usually feed her once, in the afternoon, and she will
occasionally leave it there for a couple of hours before returning to
it. Is all of this normal? Any suggestions would be greatly
appreciated!!
Thanks,
Megan

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Tomorrow is one month.....
Posted by: "ed_hebel" edhebel18@lycos.com ed_hebel
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:59 pm ((PDT))

Maybe she doesn't like the way they taste. Give her some more variety
and include the chicken quarters on the itinerary. Other good things
that you could feed would include beef heart, chicken livers, pork,
and chicken backs, which are very cheap.
-Ed

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: Tomorrow is one month.....
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:43 pm ((PDT))

Hi Megan,

Was she more interested earlier on? How's her health/energy/etc.? Is
the chicken enhanced or does it have added flavorings (read the very
fine print)? That can be related to loose stool. She might be bored.
Since she needs more variety than that, anyway, I'd try another meat to
get some more info.

My dog eats anything I put down, but I don't feed much chicken.

Good luck,

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mgn_moore" <mgn_moore@...> wrote:
she still has very runny
> stools (when she goes, which isn't often). She does very well eating
> the chicken quarters, but sometimes she acts as if she is not
> interested.

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7. Update on Zoe
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:16 am ((PDT))

Hi all,

Thanks for your encouragement and advice. Yesterday Zoe ate a good
breakfast of cut-up chicken and scarfed down some ground beef for
dinner. I was cutting up a whole chicken laster in the day, and threw
her the heart -- she wasn't sure about it until one of our cats
approached to offer it a good home in case it was lonely, and then she
snarled the cat away from it and gulped it!

Today I decided I'd had enough of cutting up her chicken and gave her
a leg quarter; she tore into the drumstick with gusto and so far has
left the thigh, but I bet she'll be ready for it tonight.

Kristin

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Hank's throwing up
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:42 am ((PDT))

Hi everyone,
Thanks for your responses. I guess I should have been a little more
specific. I did do the gradual 2x's to 1 time a day thing. I don't
know for sure if it was gradual enough though. I did it in about a 5
day period. He has been fine until today......I am in my 3rd week
only of the raw feeding and he was free fed kibble prior to the raw.
So I didn't think that his body would take too much adjusting to
switch it down to one meal a day.....I will try giving him small meals
again at the end of the night and see if that will cure things.
The only concern I still have is that he is still acting like
something is in his throat ever since he threw up today......I'll have
to keep an eye on him.
Thanks again.
mandy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "katkellm" <katkellm@...> wrote:
>
> I took him out for a potty
> > break and his stool was a little loose (after eating just chicken bone
> > from the night before)
> Hi Mandy,
> The loose stool is probably from feeding him more food at one meal
> than he is use to, and i would second Yassy's opinion that the bile
> vomit was the result of a tummy that was expecting food to arrive, had
> digestive juices ready to go to work, and when no food came, up they
> came because they didn't have a job to do. KathyM
>

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: Hank's throwing up
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:52 am ((PDT))

Hmm, if you've been transitioning to one meal a day it might be because
he ate a particularly boney meal last time. When Geiger was starting
out he would get bone and bile vomit from eating super boney meals. I
would imagine that you wouldn't have much of a problem with a more
meaty meal.

As far as his continued hacking, it may be that one of the bone
fragments irritated his throat on the way out. As long as it doesn't
seem to be affecting his mood or activity level I wouldn't worry about
it.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@...>
wrote:
> I didn't think that his body would take too much adjusting to
> switch it down to one meal a day.....I will try giving him small
> meals again at the end of the night and see if that will cure
> things. The only concern I still have is that he is still acting
> like something is in his throat ever since he threw up

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

8c. Re: Hank's throwing up
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:57 pm ((PDT))

I am in my 3rd week
> only of the raw feeding and he was free fed kibble prior to the raw.
> So I didn't think that his body would take too much adjusting to
> switch it down to one meal a day

Hi Mandy,
I don't think that you can judge his raw food digestibility to his
kibble ability. I guess it might kinda be like saying that i should
be able to eat a whole lot of steak because i'm use to eating a whole
lot of Trix. Its always a safe bet to back things up and go to what
was working for you. KathyM

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:04 pm ((PDT))

Hi Diane,

What exactly have you been feeding this little guy? When you say you
generally order your raw food...are you referring to prepared ground raw
mixes?

Ground beef is ok once in a while if you happen to find a deal you just
cannot pass up, but you should be concentrating on feeding him nice large
whole foods. No need for a grinder and you don't need to add a bunch of
vitamins and supplements to his diet. Feed him a good, varied diet and let
his body take what it requires from his food. You can get into some pretty
serious issues by over supplementing, especially in a giant breed growing
puppy.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "dupontracefan" <dupontracefan@yahoo.com>

Thanks to all that responded. I did cut up a few of them and took out
the bone, added his yogurt, vitamins and suppliments and he loved them
so I will just keep an eye on him today for some stool changes.
Thanks everyone, just learning this raw stuff and usually I order my
raw food but I am trying to find a meat grinder (I like to give his
suppliments and vitamins in a.m. with ground up meal) and learn all
the different foods that I can purchase and do it myself. So bare
with me if I ask alot of questions, lol. One more thing while I have
you helpers here, I have also NEVER feed packaged from grocery store
ground beef or ground sirloin (well you get the picture, the stuff we
make hamburgers from). Is that ok to give also or does the packaged
ground beef have too much grease/fat in it?

Messages in this topic (8)
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9b. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
Posted by: "dupontracefan" dupontracefan@yahoo.com dupontracefan
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:16 pm ((PDT))

> Kathy,
> Please don't EVER think I would be mad at you or anyone else on this
> group. That is why I joined to learn, learn, learn. Yes, it would
> make my life sooooo much simpler without the grinding so thanks so
> much for that info. I guess there is just so much info out across
the
> great web that you just don't know what to do. I have read websites
> that say they are raw but yet they have recipes in the files in
their
> groups that they cook portions (rice, veggie's, etc.) then there are
> GD groups I belong to that some feed raw and some still feed kibble
> (believe me I totally believe in the raw diet and my husband even
> works at a dog food company that I can get cheap and I mean cheap
> employee discounts, example: 50 lb bag of kibble for only 3-4
dollars
> depending on the brand but I refuse) that give their GD's all kinds
of
> supplements and vitamin C, omega's, etc. etc. So you see it is so
> confusing. I am here to learn and so far I have learned alot.
> Thanks for all the info,
> Diane
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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10a. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
Posted by: "Elizabeth" lizabeth_us@yahoo.com lizabeth_us
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:58 pm ((PDT))

I was doing a search the other week and came across that Smithfield
foods has bought almost all the pork producers out. I don't think
that there are too many little guys left-except for the organic and
natural ones here and there. I was looking up to see if there were
any additives in some of their foods.
Elizabeth

I live in NC and there are many Smithfield farms and packing plants
> around. I don't believe that our pork is a problem and I doubt they
> import anything from Romania. I give their meat to my dogs (as well
as
> myself and family).
> Penny & The Menagerie
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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10b. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
Posted by: "lkanaday" lkanaday@yahoo.com lkanaday
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:41 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "gevan1a" <gevans@...> wrote:
>
> However, I've never seen a Smithfield pork product on the shelves
that
> wasn't "enhanced", so I wouldn't feed it to my dogs anyway.
>
> -George
>

Well, in that case, if I ever see it, I guess I won't get any.
LaHoma

Messages in this topic (8)
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10c. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
Posted by: "john payne" brendajohn2823@yahoo.com brendajohn2823
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:56 pm ((PDT))

storage

lkanaday <lkanaday@yahoo.com> wrote: --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "gevan1a" <gevans@...> wrote:
>
> However, I've never seen a Smithfield pork product on the shelves
that
> wasn't "enhanced", so I wouldn't feed it to my dogs anyway.
>
> -George
>

Well, in that case, if I ever see it, I guess I won't get any.
LaHoma

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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11.1. Newbie
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:00 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I'm new to the forum. I have some history with feeding raw. I've done BARF, I've done
hommade dog food with cooked grains, I've done BARF patties, and I've done a "good
quality kibble". The problem I've experienced is that raw feeding takes so much time.
Time to run down the food, time to portion it out and freeze it so that you don't have to
run it down so frequently, time to -with BARF- grind up the veggies. And cost. It was
pretty expensive feeding a giant and a large dog chicken backs and necks, how much
more will it be costly to feed whole chickens?

AACK! I love my dogs, but they are not my whole life! Does anyone do this who has
figured out how to bring it into their life?

I live on 7 acres and raise my own steer for my family's food, but when I fed a different
dog raw meaty beef bones, she broke a tooth, so I have concluded that beef is out.

How do you do this and not have it cost so much? And finlly, where do you get a variety if
meat?

Thanks. I'd love to feed my dogs the best diet, because one suffers yerribly from allergies,
and the other (younger) seems to be developing them.

Libby

Messages in this topic (100)
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11.2. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:19 pm ((PDT))

The problem I've experienced is that raw feeding takes so much time.
>

Hi Libby, sounds like you were needlessly complicating your life.
Take a look here, LOL:

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

Daisy

Messages in this topic (100)
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11.3. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:57 pm ((PDT))

Thanks, Daisy,

I will take the list to my butcher and ask him to set some of whatever he sees that is like
this aside for me. Perhaps I can ask him to freeze it and once a month pick it up from
him.

That would be really sweet. However, I know that October is his crazy beef month and I
don't want to push him over the edge.

Libby

-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Daisy Foxworth" <daisyfoxworth@...> wrote:
>
> The problem I've experienced is that raw feeding takes so much time.
> >
>
> Hi Libby, sounds like you were needlessly complicating your life.
> Take a look here, LOL:
>
> http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes
>
> Daisy
>

Messages in this topic (100)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12027

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shortly
From: dupontracefan
1b. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
From: Andrea
1c. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
From: katkellm
1d. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
From: dupontracefan
1e. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
From: Andrea
1f. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
From: katkellm

2a. Re: Great article
From: tottime47
2b. Re: Great article
From: wandaful

3a. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
From: gevan1a
3b. Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
From: Jeffrey Gentry
3c. Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
From: katkellm
3d. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker

4a. Re: Dachsie puppy who is too thin
From: Andrea

5a. Re: question about rabbits
From: Andrea
5b. Re: question about rabbits
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: Hi, new here, need help with raw feeding my siberian huskies
From: ss_il

7. Goats with possible copper deficiency. Are they still good food?
From: Maria

8a. Re: Stinky Kitchen
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker
8b. Re: Stinky Kitchen
From: Yasuko herron

9a. Hank's throwing up
From: mandajenwalker
9b. Re: Hank's throwing up
From: Yasuko herron
9c. Re: Hank's throwing up
From: Andrea
9d. Re: Hank's throwing up
From: katkellm

10. Is supervision required?
From: dianna_obrien

11. {Raw Feeding} GS Puppy - Aggressive eating puppy
From: Brandi Bryant

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shortly
Posted by: "dupontracefan" dupontracefan@yahoo.com dupontracefan
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:31 am ((PDT))

but I need help NOW PLEASE. My great dane will be 4 months this
Friday and of course he is raw fed and always has been. I am learning
more and more about what I can give him but his main staple so far has
only been chicken and recently some beef roast. Well, it is breakfast
time and I notice that the only chicken I have is lots and lots of
chicken backs which of course have not much meat but I do have a
package of pork chops with bone in. He has never had pork and I
wanted to know if I can give him a few of those (I was going to cut
bone out because I know cooked you can't give them but didn't know
about raw pork chop bones). I have his favorite yogurt and cottage
cheese handy but that hardly makes a breakfast. Please he is
beginning to chase the cats and I am scared he is thinking THEY could
be his breakfast, lol. Thanks in advanced,
Diane

Messages in this topic (6)
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1b. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:55 am ((PDT))

If he did ok with the beef roast before I would give him some of the
pork with the chicken backs. Definitely take the bone out of the chop
though. A larger pork bone would be fine, but a chop bone is the
perfect size for a dane pup to try and swallow whole. He might have
slightly looser stools with the new meat, but as long as you feed the
backs as well he will be fine.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dupontracefan" <dupontracefan@...>
wrote:

> Well, it is breakfast time and I notice that the only chicken I have
> is lots and lots of chicken backs which of course have not much meat
> but I do have a package of pork chops with bone in. He has never had
> pork and I wanted to know if I can give him a few of those

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:58 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dupontracefan" <dupontracefan@...>
wrote:
> He has never had pork and I wanted to know if I can give him a few
of those

Hi Diane,
Yes, you can give him pork chop meat with the bone removed, or you can
just feed the too bony chicken backs immediately and feed a beef meal
later on in the day. Not every meal has to be picture perfect. The
too bony Tues.am meal can be balanced by a boneless hunk of meat later on
today. As with adding any new protein, just don't over due the pork
amount. KathyM

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
Posted by: "dupontracefan" dupontracefan@yahoo.com dupontracefan
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:20 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "katkellm" <katkellm@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dupontracefan" <dupontracefan@>
> wrote:
> > He has never had pork and I wanted to know if I can give him a few
> of those
>
> Hi Diane,
> Yes, you can give him pork chop meat with the bone removed, or you can
> just feed the too bony chicken backs immediately and feed a beef meal
> later on in the day. Not every meal has to be picture perfect. The
> too bony Tues.am meal can be balanced by a boneless hunk of meat
later on
> today. As with adding any new protein, just don't over due the pork
> amount. KathyM
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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1e. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:50 am ((PDT))

I'm glad that your pup didn't have a problem with the pork (well, so
far). How long has he been on a raw diet? Unless he has some
medical conditions that require supplements and ground food your life
is about to get a whole lot easier!

You have a wonderfully large dog with you who has his own meat
grinders in his mouth! There's no need for you to spend extra time
and money grinding things for him. When dogs tear into meat and
crunch through bones their teeth get cleaned naturally. Ground and
chopped up food have no dental benefits to speak of.

Again, unless your pup has a medical condition, a good raw diet
supplies all of the vitamins and minerals that the dog needs to
have. There is no reason to give him supplements "just in case" and
you don't want to oversupplement him. This list supports a prey
model diet, which means that we try to feed as close to whole prey as
possible. Grocery store cuts of pork, chicken, beef, turkey, etc.
work well for this and most of us have a buying group or other
sources to get more unusual cuts and animals. You want to feed your
boy mostly meat, some bone and some organs (definitely liver, but
some others too).

At the start it takes a little more leg work, but in the end it is
much better for the dog and your pocketbook. I try to keep my
spending around $1.00/lb and rarely buy anything that is over $2/lb.
I'm sure that most pre-fab food is much more expensive than that.

> I have also NEVER feed packaged from grocery store ground beef or
> ground sirloin (well you get the picture, the stuff we make
> hamburgers from). Is that ok to give also or does the packaged
> ground beef have too much grease/fat in it?

I don't buy ground beef unless it is on super duper sale. But if it
is I have no problem getting it. I use it for stuffing kongs, hiding
something the dog doesn't want to take, stuffing the cavity of a
chicken. . . but part of regular meals, it is not.

> how much for his age should I give, haven't weighed him in a few
> weeks but he was 38 lbs about 2 weeks ago.

It is easiest to feed him based on what his ideal weight will be as
an adult. You can start with feeding him 2% of his ideal adult
weight and go from there if he is losing/gaining too much. Somewhere
around 2.5lbs a day, but since he's a pup you'll want to split that
into two or three meals a day.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (6)
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1f. Re: Don't know if I had a chance to introduce myself and I will shor
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:46 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dupontracefan" <dupontracefan@...>
wrote:
just learning this raw stuff

Hi Diane,
Please don't get mad at me when i say this, but I think that you might
want to rethink your feeding choices. You don't need to buy a grinder
because you really don't want to be feeding ground food. The idea of
the diet taught on this site, the prey model diet, is based on the
scientific fact that dogs are direct descendants of the gray wolf and
are, therefore, classified as carnivores. Carnivores don't need to be
fed yogurt or veggies or fruits or supplements; they need to be fed a
diet of meat with a little bone and some organs. Since most people
can't feed whole critters everyday, we try to feed meals in the ball
park of 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, and 5% other organs. Not every
meal has to meet these percentages, but overtime its a helpful way to
make sure you don't forget/overfeed any parts of the prey animal. If
you feed your dog like this, for the healthy dog, supplements are not
necessary. Fish oil would be the exception, however, because most
livestock is now grain fed and, therefore, lacking in the omega 3s.
Since i know how hard it is to buck the system and not feed kibble, i
think that you are doing a wonderful thing for your dog feeding any
kind of raw, but you are missing out on a lot of great dental and
health benefits, as well as making a lot of extra work for yourself,
not feeding according to the recipe mother nature created long ago.
KathyM

Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. Re: Great article
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:32 am ((PDT))

Hi Jo,

If you read all of the different articles on his site, he explains
that he's all for
raw feeding, but most people who come into his vets office want a can
of food
and a pill for their dogs.......they don't want to hear about raw
feeding.........

I thought he had a great site and wish some of our more knowledgeable
raw feeders would send him information to put on it.......

He seems to be a very open minded vet and willing to learn......

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "johkemp" <johkemp@...> wrote:
>
> I found this article yesterday while looking for information on
dogs
> being carnivores to answer a yahoo question. I found it to be full
of
> useful information so I thought others might like to read it.
>
> "Dogs are Carnivores" by Jeannie Thomason Copyright © 2006
>
> http://www.dogtorj.net/id51.html
>
> Let me know what you think.
>
> Jo
>

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Great article
Posted by: "wandaful" rondarosa@ftcnet.net rondaros
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:52 am ((PDT))

Thank you.....great read.
I love this quote (hope I won't get sued)..."Yes, the dog can act as a salmonella carrier, but the solution is simple—do not eat dog poop and wash your hands after picking up after your dog."
wanda
----- Original Message -----
"Dogs are Carnivores" by Jeannie Thomason Copyright © 2006

http://www.dogtorj.net/id51.html

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
Posted by: "gevan1a" gevans@sycomtech.com gevan1a
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:32 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lkanaday" <lkanaday@...> wrote:
>
> I got this article from Meatingplace.com this am.
>
> I don't think I've ever seen Smithfield at the places I shop, but for
> future references shold it be avoided? Or is this just for ppl in
> Romania?
>
> LaHoma

I live in Richmond, Va and this is the first I've heard of it. It
sounds like only Romania is effected.

However, I've never seen a Smithfield pork product on the shelves that
wasn't "enhanced", so I wouldn't feed it to my dogs anyway.

-George

Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
Posted by: "Jeffrey Gentry" gentry.jeffrey@yahoo.com cresco299
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:48 am ((PDT))

>I don't think I've ever seen Smithfield at the
places I shop, but for
>future references shold it be avoided? Or is this
just for ppl in
>Romania?

Scary! I regularly buy pork shoulder from a local
club store (BJ's

www.bjs.com) and it's a Smithfield Brand. The thought
hadn't really
crossed my mind, but if Walmart brings in beef from
China, whose to say
if my club store doesn't bring in pork from
Romania.....

Jeff

____________________________________________________________________________________
Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html

Messages in this topic (5)
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3c. Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:47 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Gentry <gentry.jeffrey@...>
wrote:
The thought
> hadn't really
> crossed my mind, but if Walmart brings in beef from
> China, whose to say
> if my club store doesn't bring in pork from
> Romania.....
Hi Jeff,
The evil empire, Wal-Mart, also carries the Smithfield brand. The
last time i was there i bought some split pigs feet that they had on
sale-i feed them frozen as a not to be counted in the meal deal treat.
These were the first Smithfield products that i bought because, as
was already pointed out by George, all their stuff is enhanced.
KathyM who thinks big business has gained way too much control over
our society

Messages in this topic (5)
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3d. Re: Should we avoid pork by Smithfield Foods?
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:50 am ((PDT))

I live in NC and there are many Smithfield farms and packing plants
around. I don't believe that our pork is a problem and I doubt they
import anything from Romania. I give their meat to my dogs (as well as
myself and family).
Penny & The Menagerie

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: Dachsie puppy who is too thin
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:56 am ((PDT))

You can feed her more food or try more fatty foods (pork, tongue, lamb,
etc). Some dogs just need more food to maintain their weight.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, K Carolyn Ramamurti
<lilith23360@...> wrote:

> One is getting too thin for my taste. She eats at least 1/3 more
than the other (who is a chunk!), but just doesn't gain weight.

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: question about rabbits
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:59 am ((PDT))

You'll have to test the waters with your dogs, but if it were me I'd
feed it whole (complete with head, feet, tail, and skin). If your dog
doesn't go for it, try cutting open the belly to expose the insides.
From there you might have to skin it if the dog still refuses.

I see no reason to clean a small animal like a rabbit. If your dog
will eat it whole, all the better. Some dogs leave intestines and such
of prey animals, but that is usually with larger animals. Rabbits are
more like "chomp, chomp, gone."

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "SherryL3" <luckymermaid@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, I read either here or somewhere else about how simple it is to
> feed dogs rabbit carcass . . . The poster said all you had to do
> was cut off head and feet & skin, if you wanted. But, what about
> the bile duct?

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: question about rabbits
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:26 am ((PDT))

"SherryL3" <luckymermaid@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, I read either here or somewhere else about how simple it is to
> feed dogs rabbit carcass . .
*****
No, it is more simple than that.
1. Humanely dispatch rabbit.
2. Feed it.

THAT's simple. There is no need to remove the head, feet and skin! If
the dog wants to eat those parts, it will. If the dog does not, it
won't. There is no need for you to make the decision for it. Really.

But, what about the bile
> duct?
*****
The dog will eat it or it will not. Let your dog decide.

I have slaughtered a few rabbits for my own consumption, and
> always remove that because it can ruin the taste of the meat.
*****
And how would that relate to a dog's preferences? A dog for which cat
poop is a fine treat and roadkill may well be the most desired
perfume? I'd say you should not compare your needs to your dog's.

I've
> also read that in the wild, wolves will carefully remove that,
*****
Pish tosh. I'll need some documentation on that one.
The intestines of large prey may be discarded, and the stomach contents
(not the bag, just the digesta) are generally flung to the four winds,
and large bones are often stripped of meat then left for smaller
predators and scavengers. The skull may be left for the next
demolition crew.

Small prey (including rabbits) however, is usually eaten by a single
wolf without much thought other than to get it down and get on with
life as soon as possible. The offal is not awful to wolves and they
eat it. Or heck, they don't. But picking out the bile duct is clearly
not an assumed part of the dining process.

I feed whole rabbits to one dog and skinned but not gutted rabbits to
another, and no rabbits to my big Lab who clearly thinks it is a
trick. The two bunny-eating dogs absolutely eat what they're given.

I feed whole baby goats and whole piglets. Everything is eaten.
Sometimes my dogs will carefully eat around fish guts though. But I
don't make the choice for them.

If you are fortunate enough to be able to feed rabbit, feed "as is"
unless your dog makes it painfully clear you will have to do some prep
work. You may not have to.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: Hi, new here, need help with raw feeding my siberian huskies
Posted by: "ss_il" ss_il@yahoo.com ss_il
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:49 am ((PDT))

Hi and welcome,

I've been feeding Alaska (Female Siberian) raw for a couple of years
now - thanks to Bill Carnes whose web site I stumbled across when I
started to get suspicious about kibble and started looking for
alternatives. This before all the recent (ahem) controversy.

And yes, I did start with BARF, because that's what I first came
across that sounded better than kibble. Wife was not happy with all
the slicing, dicing, ginding, and chopping, and kitchen mess. I was
not happy with all the hours spent / wasted
with preparing meals. This lasted for about a month.

My Allie also questioned liver at the beginning. Now she eats it
first if there is any served with the meal. She weighs in at around
35 kilos, and I feed her roughly a pound a day depending on how she
looks. Having said that, I should mention that I've taken to feeding
her every 2 days and she gets about a kilo a little over 2 pounds)
per feeding. I have been given to understand that there are
advantages to this approach. A dogs stomach and digestive system is
different than ours, and they apparently take longer to feel hunger
than we do. The bigger meal means that they get to fill their
stomachs, which gives them a satiated feeling that they don't get
from multiple smaller meals, and it gets their stomach unfolded, and
more of the stomach wall, and secretions, in contact with the food.

Currently (take note - we worked our way up to this), I feed her a
whole, roughly 1 to 1.5 kilo chicken. I confess that I'm not sure
which one of us is more satisfied with these big meals. True she gets
to eat them, but I get to watch, and I have to say that watching her
ingest a whole chicken is almost a spiritual experience. You have to
watch your dog do this to appreciate my meaning.

In the beginning, try not to make yourself sick measuring micrograms
of this and that for every meal.

Just feeding raw is lightyears better than the commercial stuff
you've been feeding.

And try not to get too gung ho with variety. Everybody here sugggests
going slow and introducing new meats slowly. Take their advice. And
after a few months you'll laugh at yourself for all the worrying and
measuring.

One final note. My Allie is supposedly somewhere between 5 and a half
and 6 years old - I found her at the SPCA with no history and her age
was the vets best guess - and when asked her age by other dog owners
who watch her play for a bit, I answer 5 and a half, and more often
than not, people come back with.... get this... "Months or Years?"

Enjoy the ride,

Steve and Allie

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7. Goats with possible copper deficiency. Are they still good food?
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:47 am ((PDT))

I got an email from a friend of someone that I have been talking to
about retired/cull animals. Her friend Karen has 3 goats that are
crippled because of probible copper deficiency, she has to kill them
and take their livers for testing but I can have the rest. Would they
be OK as about 1/2 of a dogs diet?

And one is a male in rut, would his "oysters" be good for a treat?

Thanks.
Maria

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8a. Re: Stinky Kitchen
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:47 am ((PDT))

Michelle,
Another help is to keep your drains clean...they can harbor all sorts
of smells....or you could just tell your husband to stay out of the
kitchen........NOT!
Good luck, Penny & The Menagerie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "michelleraia1" <michelleraia1@...>
wrote:
>
> My husband says our who kitchen area stinks like raw meat all of the
> time. I clean the counters after preparing the meals~is there
anything
> else I can do~I don't want him to hate raw feeding...HELP~
>
> Michelle
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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8b. Re: Stinky Kitchen
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:08 am ((PDT))

>Another help is to keep your drains clean...

Yes,I agree. When I use Lemon or Lime in dishes,I usualy throw these peels into sink's food disposor and it makes smell good.

And,now and then,I pour water+vinegar mixture into drainer too.

and of course,I wash kitchen sink too.

And I throw plastic package that contains meat juice wash it throughly and toss into outside garbage bin too.

yassy

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9a. Hank's throwing up
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:51 am ((PDT))

Hi all,
I just had a big issue with my dane, Hank. I took him out for a potty
break and his stool was a little loose (after eating just chicken bone
from the night before) and he threw up a lot of bright yellow bile
right afterwards. He is still acting like he is choking on something
as we speak but nothing is coming out......any ideas????
I did switch them from 2 times a day feeding to 1 time a day feeding
because of the amount of time it takes for them to eat and my busy
schedule.........
Thanks
Mandy

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9b. Re: Hank's throwing up
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:41 am ((PDT))

>he threw up a lot of bright yellow bile

Hi,mandy. If you switched feeding 2 times to 1 time a day like cold turkey way,I guess Hunk is hungry and got yellow bile vomit.

He was expecting food in the morning but nothing has come so,thus,empty stomach made bile up from the mouth.

I think gradually changing feeding times would have been better than sudden switch maybe??

I know some people feed one food's amount gradually more added and then,the second meal giving less and less and make it to 1 day a meal.

yassy

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9c. Re: Hank's throwing up
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:29 am ((PDT))

If you switched to once a day feedings his stool might be loose because
he had more food to digest this time. The bile vomit is a common side
effect of feeding schedules being changed. You can deal with the bile
vomit for a couple of days (it doesn't hurt the dog) or you can go back
to two meals a day and vary the time he is fed as well as work at
making one meal larger while the other gets smaller. Eventually you
will be able to go to once a day feeding that can be fed whenever you
feel like giving it.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@...>
wrote:

> I took him out for a potty break and his stool was a little loose
> (after eating just chicken bone from the night before) and he threw
> up a lot of bright yellow bile right afterwards.

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9d. Re: Hank's throwing up
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:30 am ((PDT))

I took him out for a potty
> break and his stool was a little loose (after eating just chicken bone
> from the night before)
Hi Mandy,
The loose stool is probably from feeding him more food at one meal
than he is use to, and i would second Yassy's opinion that the bile
vomit was the result of a tummy that was expecting food to arrive, had
digestive juices ready to go to work, and when no food came, up they
came because they didn't have a job to do. KathyM

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10. Is supervision required?
Posted by: "dianna_obrien" dianna_obrien@yahoo.com dianna_obrien
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:30 am ((PDT))

I've been feeding my two dogs, a cocker spaniel and a terrier mix, raw
since April. Both are doing great; they love chicken, beef, pork,
venison, elk and deer. They haven't had any problems at all.

I have been told I should supervise their eating but temperatures are
falling here in Missouri and they eat outside. Do I have to keep
supervising their meal time?

Dianna

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11. {Raw Feeding} GS Puppy - Aggressive eating puppy
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:30 am ((PDT))

My 6 month old GS puppy is an aggressive eater - she has her own
spot/towel/bowl. The other dogs are not near her. If I give her a
thigh, she'll have it gone in like 2 to 3 chomps and then swollows it.
And she will tear into the meat like there's no tomorrow, she'll
stand on the meat with her two front legs and pull at the meat with
her front teeth, and I know that's what they're suppose to do. And
yes I'm feeding her still twice a day. Evening meals are bigger then
the morning meals though. And she doesn't throw anything up when she
does. I've started freezing her food, I gave her a frozen turkey leg
and she had to work on it a little more and it seems to slow her down
a tad - maybe! Is there anything else I can do to slow her down a
little - she and Roxie my other pup get the most food and she's
usually done before the any of the rest of them are. Or am I being a
worrier?

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

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