Feed Pets Raw Food: Oct 9, 2007

Tuesday, October 9, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12140

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Liquid poo
From: Shannon Hully
1b. Re: Liquid poo
From: nlhp4

2a. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
From: Andrea
2b. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
From: Tracy P-C
2c. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
From: john payne
2d. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
From: nlhp4

3a. Re: Feeding raw and skin allergies
From: Andrea
3b. Re: Feeding raw and skin allergies
From: Sonja

4a. Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
From: Kevin Brown

5a. Are there any meats that I need to deep-freeze before feeding?
From: Yasuko herron
5b. Re: Are there any meats that I need to deep-freeze before feeding?
From: tottime47

6a. Re: Calories
From: Sandee Lee
6b. Re: Calories
From: susrob061174

7a. Re: Raw Beef ribs?
From: tottime47

8.1. Re: question
From: Michael Moore
8.2. Re: question
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

9a. How to start raw for puppy (how to access the list archives)
From: n_knezevich
9b. Re: How to start raw for puppy (how to access the list archives)
From: Andrea

10a. Re: fast results?/new subject ticks
From: Melissa

11a. Re: What edible bones are there besides chicken bones? and a plethor
From: spricketysprock

12a. Re: What edible bones are there besides chicken bones? and a plethor
From: Melissa

13a. Raw Milk Kefir?
From: whitezinfendel23
13b. Re: Raw Milk Kefir?
From: Andrea

14a. Re: WHEN DO YOU CALL A DOG "TOO" THIN?
From: Melissa

15.1. New to Raw Feeding
From: Michelle Rhodes

Messages
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1a. Re: Liquid poo
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:12 am ((PDT))

Oh, I forgot to mention that he had hookworms and I've been giving him
DE for that. Could the liquid poo this morning just be his body
getting rid of them or something related to that?

Shannon H.

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: Liquid poo
Posted by: "nlhp4" nlhp4@yahoo.com nlhp4
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 12:25 pm ((PDT))

Hi Shannon.

Personal experience says the liquid poo you described is nothing to be
concerned about just yet. Could be a combination of anything that you
mentioned, the ring worm, high meat, etc.

Neither of my dogs does well if I feed them meat that has been kept
just a bit too long, the ESS is better than the lab mix but both will
get runny stool and the ESS will sometimes turn her nose up at it if
the meat has truly gone by.

I would keep an eye out on him to ensure it doesn't get worse and
realize that some dogs take better to the "slightly gone by" meat than
others.

Good luck.

-Sibyl

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:42 am ((PDT))

I wouldn't try to make her eat until she feels like it. Offer whatever
is her favorite meal at dinnertime, and if she doesn't want it don't
fret. She'll eat when she feels better.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "nlhp4" <nlhp4@...> wrote:
>
> OK, Trinity, my ESS, is not eating. She is raw fed, loves to eat
> but I think she got a bit of motion sickness from our long drive
> home last night (8+hours in the car).

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
Posted by: "Tracy P-C" tpreston721@yahoo.com tpreston721
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 10:23 am ((PDT))

You may try giving her some ginger (I usually use gingersnaps) - I start be giving it when we aren't traveling right away, so they don't think they are going for a "ride" and then they get all worked up - I give the gingersnaps about 30 minutes before we go for a ride - If they are still feeling yucky I will give another when we get home - Ginger is naturally settling for the tummy - You can try candied ginger or maybe make a little ginger tea for her - I hope this helps - I also wouldn't force her to eat anything until she is ready, she isn't going to starve to death

Good luck
Tracy

nlhp4 <nlhp4@yahoo.com> wrote:
OK, Trinity, my ESS, is not eating. She is raw fed, loves to eat but
I think she got a bit of motion sickness from our long drive home
last night (8+hours in the car).

This happened once before and she ended up at the vets office because
I didn't know what else to do when she didn't eat for three days. Of
course, the vet drugged her up and blamed the raw feeding, that it
upsets her stomach. Knowing my vet was full of bologne, I gave the
pills to help her appetite come back and she was better by the next
day and eating like a horse.

In an attempt to avoid the vet visit this time, is there anything I
can feed her (besides pumpkin, she won't eat it canned or otherwise
when she IS feeling well) that will stimulate her appetite more
naturally being that she is raw fed and I try to keep her out of the
perscription drug arena?

Any suggestions? (hope this post is OK for this group, if not please
direct me to a raw fed group that may be able to help).

-Sibyl-
Trinity & Titan thank you too!

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (5)
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2c. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
Posted by: "john payne" brendajohn2823@yahoo.com brendajohn2823
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:13 am ((PDT))

just went thru the same thing with our Angel, didnt eat for 3 days, nothing!! Yesterday i offered her some rice, she ate, then ate a small amount last night. Today she acted like she was starving. since she had no other symptoms, i didnt take her to the vet, so maybe theres a dog flu going around?
Brenda

Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:
I wouldn't try to make her eat until she feels like it. Offer whatever
is her favorite meal at dinnertime, and if she doesn't want it don't
fret. She'll eat when she feels better.

Andrea

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Messages in this topic (5)
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2d. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
Posted by: "nlhp4" nlhp4@yahoo.com nlhp4
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:52 am ((PDT))

Thanks Tracey. I will be buying Ginger Tea and possibly some candied
ginger tonight. I really do think she just gets herself worked up when
her tummy is upset and ends up causing herself more problems. The last
time she didn't eat for four days, and dropped almost 6 pounds (which
at the time was 15% of her body weight). Her eyes started getting
sunken in and of course her energy level decreased before I finally
gave in and took her to the vet. I am trying to avoid this result this
time and thus will try just about anything once to see if it helps
her.

You feed the gingersnaps before the car ride and after?

Thanks again to all, any more advice is always welcome as well.

-Sibyl

> You may try giving her some ginger (I usually use gingersnaps) - I
start be giving it when we aren't traveling right away, so they don't
think they are going for a "ride" and then they get all worked up - I
give the gingersnaps about 30 minutes before we go for a ride - If they
are still feeling yucky I will give another when we get home - Ginger
is naturally settling for the tummy - You can try candied ginger or
maybe make a little ginger tea for her - I hope this helps - I also
wouldn't force her to eat anything until she is ready, she isn't going
to starve to death
>
> Good luck
> Tracy

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: Feeding raw and skin allergies
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:42 am ((PDT))

Are they sure the allergies aren't food allergies? If the dog is for
sure allergic to pollen I don't think a raw diet would make it go away,
even though you can't go wrong in working to build the immune system.
It's entirely possible that the dog is allergic to something in the
food, in which case a raw diet will most certainly help. If you live
near your mom you can offer to do the leg work and supply all the food
for a month. If she sees an improvement then you can work with her on
doing it on her own. There's no aneccdotal evidence that is more
valuable than first hand experience.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jen" <jboydmorin@...> wrote:

> It's been a while since I posted and I'm actually trying to gather
> some info for my mom this time around. She has a cairn terrier who
> has had problems with seasonal skin allergies since she got her.
> They have been treating her with otc benadryl up until this point
> but I guess the problem is bad enough that the vet has now
> recommended oral prednisone.

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Feeding raw and skin allergies
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:39 am ((PDT))

Hi Jen,

Although we really have no idea at this point if Kodie's allergies are seasonal, environmental, food related, caused by vaccinosis, caused by overuse of antibiotics, or all of the above. One thing is for sure...she's itchy and she used to chew her feet 'til they bled. We've had dozens and dozens of trips to the vet to take care of symptoms. We've tried 5 vets....three conventional, two holistic. I've balked and stopped short of allergy testing and shots, I'd rather not go that route unless we're really at the point of desperation.

We've tried Benedryl, Atarax, malaseb spray, Pavia pads, OTC sprays, gentle shampoos, medicated shampoos, anti fungal shampoos, and more ointments than I can remember. If you name a brand of kibble, we've probably tried it. I kept the raw diet in my back pocket as the one thing to try before going in for the allergy tests.

My dog is pretty messed up, so I didn't see the instant results that a lot of other people see. In fact, her paws didn't clear up until after 6 MONTHS of feeding strictly raw, and even now they're not at 100%. The one thing that did improve in a month's time was her breath. She used to be able to kill an angry bull with that breath, but it went away. I never thought I'd see the day where she's as healthy as she is now, and I know it's because of the diet. She's still itchy and we still take measures to keep her from chewing her paws, but it's nowhere near the critical state it once was.

And to my benefit, feeding raw is easier than kibble + all the supplements I had her on.

Sonja

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Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
Posted by: "Kevin Brown" jerseykev@aol.com noblarneyzone
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:42 am ((PDT))

What everyone is telling you is sound advise.

I have two mastiff pups a month apart. The older "Baby" 5 months has
been in the house the longest and on raw the longest. The little one
came to us a week and a few days ago, I put her on raw this week,
Georgeanne is just about 4 months. At first she was extremely
agressive when it came to all her food and water. Growls, teeth, the
whole 9 yards.

She just came from a breeder where she had to fight to get her fair
share among 8 puppies. Today I actually sat between them and kept
bringing them back to their own food. As Georgeanne realises the
other puppies are not here she will mellow out. Just this mornings
time spent withthem as they ate improves the situation 150%.

Kevin Brown
The Jersey Shore
guardiansbythesea.com

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys...
>
> I have a very sweet, submissive 2yr old wheaten who has always
pretty
> much let us do anything to him--pull food or toys out of his mouth,
> etc... Today, for the first time ever, he growled at me and bared
his
> teeth when I came close to a chicken leg quarter he was working on
on
> the kitchen floor. I was shocked--he has never done this
before. As
> a dog who only ever picked at his k***le, I totally get that his
food
> now, which he loves so much, has so much more value for him. Has
> anyone experienced a dog become more protective of their food on
raw?
> If so, how did you handle it? I obviously don't want him to start
a
> bad habit now that could spiral out of control later.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nancy
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. Are there any meats that I need to deep-freeze before feeding?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 10:23 am ((PDT))

I was browsing through the internet and came across this

http://www.exoticmeats.com/docs/ExoticMeats-What-things-taste-like.pdf

Now,it explain that what meats taste like what and interesting but, if I get any of the meats from the list above,are there any meat that I need to deep-freeze?

Snake,doves,gator .. can I feed raw?

Anybody fed them to dogs??

thanks,

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Are there any meats that I need to deep-freeze before feeding?
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:16 am ((PDT))

Hi Yassy,

Great and interesting site! Thank You!
This site is for human meats, like you buy in
the grocery store.

All of them would be safe to feed
immediately, expensive but safe for dogs!

Might be ordering some treats myself, once winter
gets here, lol. I know they'll ship frozen and hopefully
stay that way till they get here.

Carol, Charkee (I want alligator) & Moli (I want kangaroo)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:

>

http://www.exoticmeats.com/docs/ExoticMeats-What-things-taste-
like.pdf

Snake,doves,gator .. can I feed raw?

> thanks,
> yassy

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: Calories
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:02 am ((PDT))

More food, more meat, more fat.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "T Smith" <coldbeach@gmail.com>

> On the other side:
> I'd like to know what raw food can I feed to help my youngster gain
weight?

Messages in this topic (11)
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6b. Re: Calories
Posted by: "susrob061174" susrob061174@yahoo.com susrob061174
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:53 am ((PDT))

Hi Carol, Charkee & Moli,

I dont think you can get it. We live out in the county. I normally
trap and hunt some of thier food but I have one female that will take
care of anything that comes in the yards and pasture. I have to cover
holes in the yard from digging up moles. LOL

Susanne

Messages in this topic (11)
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7a. Re: Raw Beef ribs?
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:14 am ((PDT))

Hi,

Not necessary unless you have a very tiny dog who is new to raw feeding
and needs a little time to figure out the bone part or a very old, sick
dog who doesn't have the strength to chew anymore.

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ryanbadie" <ryanbadie@...> wrote:

> Im unsure about is the crushing of the bones I read about
> occasionally. What is the purpose of this and is it necessary?

Messages in this topic (6)
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8.1. Re: question
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:14 am ((PDT))

>>I have just joined the group a few days ago. I have not yet started to feed
my GSD raw.<<

Good for you, Kathryn!! GSDs do soooo much better on raw than on kibble; their "funky" digestive issues often disappear completely.

>>I would like to hear from the people who have been feeding raw for a year
or longer and describe the benefits they have noticed.<<

We've been rawfeeding for six years. Benefits are numerous -- incredibly clean teeth (with *no* effort on my part!), shinier coats, better muscling, wonderful stamina & energy, smaller stools, very few vet visits, no doggy odor or foul breath.

>>How it is different (or easier) for you now than in the beginning.<<

I'm a lot more casual about it now!! Like many, I obsessed over giving my dog bones (I was positive bones would kill them!) I worried about amounts, variety, bone (did I mention I worried about bones??), organs, you name it. Now, I just feed my dogs.

>>My dog has never done well on anything I feed him. From the most expensive
kibble etc. He is healthy but not where I would like to see him.<<

I think that you may not realize how unhealthy your dog *might* be; this is true of many of us, I suspect. I used to *think* that my dogs were healthy; the difference in them since rawfeeding convinces me that I had no idea what true "good health" is.
Many of the list are probably quite tired of my story, but here it is -- my rescue GSD, Holly, was an older puppy (~ 9 mos. we think) when we fostered her. She had been found running loose near a county agency --where she'd been seen for over two weeks before anyone bothered to call animal control. She was so thin you could count ribs, her backbone stuck out, etc. and her coat was dull. She was started on a so-called premium ki**le immediately. For an entire year, this dog had diarrhea daily. We did so many stool checks, blood work, digestive enzymes, etc., it would boggle your mind. Nothing worked. The only thing that saved Holly was switching to rawfeeding! Within days, the diarrhea had stopped, she began to put on weight (probably for the first time in her life!)
She's seven now, fit as a fiddle, energetic (does agility) with an incredible coat and a puppy's zest for life. I have no doubt she would have died years ago if not for this diet. Nature really did "get it right," and once we arrive at understanding that, our dogs' health improves dramatically!

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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8.2. Re: question
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:40 am ((PDT))

I've been feeding for over a year and a half, no skin problems, no allergies, no teeth cleanings, no fleas, no smelly coat, or breath, no major or minor health issues. All the health problems I have had, and only one, is eye problems, they got from going to the dog park.;)
So, for me, I have less vet bills, and less cleaning bills, and less dental bills, so, for me, they should live longer, and it all adds up:)
Mine, two dane puppies, were fed raw since I got them, my pomchi, since I got her from my Aunt passing away at her age of two, and her problems with anal gland issues have stopped since raw feeding. So I have done it with my puppies since they were little, the new one, since she came to us, so we have a mix of times, and the result is the same, they all are doing fine, and thriving well.
Hope that helps you.
Jeni

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9a. How to start raw for puppy (how to access the list archives)
Posted by: "n_knezevich" n_knezevich@yahoo.com n_knezevich
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:14 am ((PDT))

I'm one month away from getting my puppy and I think have decided to
feed her Raw. I read another posting asking how to start the raw
feeding, and a posting referred to the List Archives. I hate to admit
it...but I can't see the list archives.

I don't want to go through what I did with my last dog, a Shep X, who
slowly over 10 years developed/was diagnosed with IBD (seeing her
getting worse over time, the drugs, "hypoallergenic" dog kibble food,
etc.) Then just 3 months ago, shy of her 12 birthday, she was
diagnosed with a hemangiasarcoma tumour. She lasted 3 more weeks.
It's hard to know that I contributed to all of that by making the
choices that I did. I had no clue at all.

This time I want to do it right (or right-er, at least.)

Thanks,

Nada K. in Vancouver.

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: How to start raw for puppy (how to access the list archives)
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:52 am ((PDT))

Welcome to the group! Accessing the archives is easy once you get to
the webpage for the group. Go to

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding
(If you aren't part of Yahoo!Groups yet you'll have to sign up to look
at the messages). You can either click on messages and just start
reading, or you can do a search. Since we have so many messages in the
archives I suggest an advanced search. For example, if you search for
messages that have "newbie" in the subject you'll end up with about
3000 posts to go through that will be chock full of info. If you have
specific questions you can always do an archive search if you need
answers quick, but don't be afraid to post specific questions too.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "n_knezevich" <n_knezevich@...>
wrote:

> I hate to admit it...but I can't see the list archives.

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10a. Re: fast results?/new subject ticks
Posted by: "Melissa" mwood8402@yahoo.com mwood8402
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:39 am ((PDT))

It's something that I have always heard, but didn't believe until I
saw the results myself. I explanation I have always heard is that
parasites aren't attracted to a healthy animal. If there is a more
specific explanation I don't know what it is!

-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Lene Andersen" <leneandersen@...>
wrote:
> Reading your remark, made me realize that I haven't removed any
ticks >from my dogs the last couple of month, which is about the same
time >they have been fed a mostly raw diet. I'm wondering however what
the >correlation is supposed to be, do you (or anyone else) know?

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11a. Re: What edible bones are there besides chicken bones? and a plethor
Posted by: "spricketysprock" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:39 am ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!

> Probably more than he needs from a nutritional perspective; not
> enough for a good mental and physical workout. What size dog, how
> old, any health issues that would get in the way of bone chomping?

About 65 or 70 lbs, 10 yrs, no health issues. He only gets a small
piece in the morning for his bone intake and then later he'll get
his meal of beef or goat or whatever, that is usually much meatier
and has larger bones. I was asking mainly because people said weight
bearing bones can break teeth so what other bones are soft enough to
consume?

> What do you mean overly?
Sometimes it's pretty hard but passable. I think he just needs more
bone and exercise is a good idea as well..

> Hearts are fed as muscle meat, not organ.
> Where are you looking? My guess is you haven't broadened your
> horizons enough.
I have found beef liver. I've broadeneed my horizons except for
trecking into Boston markets, which I rather not have to do. Are
there any organs that are essential besides liver?

> Protein variety is fine, what's the status of body part variety?
In what shape are these meat proteins getting to your dog?

Whole duck, whole chicken, the goat chunk was rather large, looked
like a rib section? Not sure about the rabbit but that's a large
chunk as well. The beef is usually ground as I refuse to pay more
for it, but I just feed more bone on those days.

> In what way did he have trouble passing these parts? I mean,
could you SEE the parts, were they not digested? Were they actually
intact and stuck? My guess is his difficulty was related to not
enough flesh. Lots of fat, lots of bone, not enough meat.

That's surprising because everyone here stresses whole prey for
proper ratios, so I figured a whole duck was perfect! I wasn't there
but my mom said it was very very hard and she could see the foot.

Thanks Chris!

Messages in this topic (11)
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12a. Re: What edible bones are there besides chicken bones? and a plethor
Posted by: "Melissa" mwood8402@yahoo.com mwood8402
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:52 am ((PDT))

Mine is the same way. He also licks his paws and wipes his face like
a cat. I think he's just cleaning himself because he only does it for
a few minutes after eating and never any other time. If he did it
often all day long, then I would start to wonder.

-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <ladyver@...> wrote:>
> I might be able to help with this. The world is my dog's napkin
after she eats raw.

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13a. Raw Milk Kefir?
Posted by: "whitezinfendel23" whitezinfendel23@yahoo.com whitezinfendel23
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:54 am ((PDT))

Can the raw meat eating dogs have raw milk kefir??

Holly

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13b. Re: Raw Milk Kefir?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 12:23 pm ((PDT))

If you are asking wether raw milk is part of a species appropriate
diet, no it isn't. Some people use it for probiotic purposes, but
healthy raw fed dogs shouldn't need additional probiotics in order to
digest their food. If the dog values it as a treat I see no problem
with it.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "whitezinfendel23"
<whitezinfendel23@...> wrote:

> Can the raw meat eating dogs have raw milk kefir??

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14a. Re: WHEN DO YOU CALL A DOG "TOO" THIN?
Posted by: "Melissa" mwood8402@yahoo.com mwood8402
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 12:24 pm ((PDT))

I have a Sheltie that's very fluffy. You should be able to feel all
the ribs, but there should be a thin layer of flesh on top.

-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all...
>
> I keep reading on the posts to adjust meals according to how your dog
> looks. What do you do in the case of a "fluffy" dog like a wheaten
> terrier that always looks bigger with the hair then it actually is?

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15.1. New to Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Michelle Rhodes" mrhodes1970@yahoo.com mrhodes1970
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 1:01 pm ((PDT))

I am new to raw feeding and have been doing lots of reading but have not made the switch yet. I would greatly appreciate any advice and knowledge anyone would be willing to share with me on making the switch and what others feed. Thanks in advance.

Michelle Rhodes

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12139

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: What edible bones are there besides chicken bones? and a plethor
From: Andrea

2a. Re: Fwd: Message not approved: FEEDING SCHEDULE
From: Denise Strother

3. Duluth MN Raw Feeding
From: Cheryl Fleckenstein

4a. Re: Calories
From: susrob061174
4b. Re: Calories
From: tottime47
4c. Re: Calories
From: tottime47

5.1. Re: question
From: Andrea
5.2. Re: question
From: Nataly A
5.3. Re: question
From: katkellm

6a. FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
From: miensasis
6b. Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
From: Andrea
6c. Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
From: alexanderdewey
6d. Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
From: tottime47
6e. Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
From: katkellm
6f. Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
From: Mona

7a. Re: My first raw feeding
From: Andrea

8a. WHEN DO YOU CALL A DOG "TOO" THIN?
From: miensasis
8b. Re: WHEN DO YOU CALL A DOG "TOO" THIN?
From: Shannon Parker

9a. Re: Websites for raw information & guidelines
From: costrowski75

10. another question on size of food
From: Shawna

11a. Re: WOW! Love the results after nearly 2 weeks!
From: helpshelteranimals

12a. Re: fast results?
From: tottime47

13. Feeding raw and skin allergies
From: Jen

14. Help! Dog not eating.
From: nlhp4

15. Liquid poo
From: Shannon Hully

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: What edible bones are there besides chicken bones? and a plethor
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 6:42 am ((PDT))

In several areas in the country the raw feeders are lucky enough to
have some highly motivated people that put together a buying group or
co-op where members can get bulk items from different suppliers. I go
through a Southern California buying group that is good enough to ship
to the central valley (and now even Phoenix!).

Maybe someone in the NJ area knows of a group near you and can pipe in
here. You can also go to the carnivore feed supplier group and do an
archive search for NJ

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Lene Andersen" <leneandersen@...>
wrote:

> What is a buying group?

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Fwd: Message not approved: FEEDING SCHEDULE
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 6:43 am ((PDT))

Trina,
Gorge and fast has nothing to do with starving your dog. The dog is
allowed to eat 2 or 3 days worth of food at one time and then fed at
the appropriate time. A dogs stomach is not the same as ours. It is
more expandable and their metabolism works differently than ours.
Wolves eat gorge and fast regularly. They don't feel week and woozie
if they don't eat for a day or so, like we would. If they did then
they would all die during a bad winter when game was scarce. I have my
dog and a couple of fosters. I also board dogs. Some dogs prefer gorge
and fast. My 9yr old female Chihuahua is one who does. I give them
large meals as much as possible. I let them eat what they want and
feed them or not the next day depending on how much they ate. I have
no food issues in my group and can feed my 3 dogs, my son's
girlfriend's dog and most of my boarders together in a relatively
small space. They all get what they need and don't have to worry about
each other. I don't remember the last time someone here needed a vet
and people comment on how great they all look every time we go out in
public, which is a lot.
I don't understand people who try to make dogs conform to people
standards instead of letting them be the wonderful, interesting
animals they are. I appreciate and love my dogs for who and what they
are which is an animal with some similarities, but many differences
from myself. I think encouraging someone to learn about and find what
works best for their dogs is a great thing to do. Denise

Thank you.
I just am having a hard time understanding why someone wants to allow
the dog to gorge & then fast/starve their dog intentionally.
I suppose it will just be something I will not understand & certainly
would never ever encourage anyone to do.
Trina

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3. Duluth MN Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Cheryl Fleckenstein" fleckensteincheryl@yahoo.com fleckensteincheryl
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 6:46 am ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

I'm new to Raw Feeding. I have a Doberman puppy and a 7-year old chocolate lab. Where in Duluth MN can I get raw meat for my dogs? Thank you!

---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Calories
Posted by: "susrob061174" susrob061174@yahoo.com susrob061174
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 7:27 am ((PDT))

I dont have a problem with Raw, I have been feeding since 1998, well
at first it was BARF until 2005 then I switch totally on RAW. Believe
me they get a wide varitey. Beef(hearts,kidneys,liver), Chicken
(Hearts, gizzards, kidneys), Deer(Whole), Rabbit(Whole),
Squirrel(Whole), Fresh Fish(Whole), Rats(Hairless), Turtle(Whole),
Armidillo(Whole), Lamb(Whole), Goat(Whole) and Turkey (Wild, Whole)and
more. I was just curious when my friend asked and then I also read in
my nurtition part in my Dog Bible the other day that a dog (depending
on wieght) for example 110lb dog requires 24 calories per lbs, more or
less due to weather and activity level. So that would be 2,640
calories that the dog will need. Ground Beef chuck from Walmart is 340
calories per 4oz. Adding up to 30.8oz or 1.9lbs to give. I just throw
about a 2lb chuck to each. One kibble brand would take 8 cups to full
fill the 2640 calorie intake. I told her it was to much of a headache
and trouble to watch your dogs intake than your own, so I dont bother.

Susanne

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Calories
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 8:02 am ((PDT))

Hi Trina,

If you have a healthy pup, it won't be long before he'll be needing
to loose weight on this diet, lol. Seriously, most I've seen are
getting a little chunky, unless they are show or working dogs.

Fatter meats are pork, lamb & beef. You can add a little extra to the
meal or add another meal for him, whatever works best for you.

One of mine was always a picky eater and stayed the same weight, give
or take a few ounces for 9 yrs! Now we are trying the cut back method
to get him to loose a little, lol.

Even my vet said he couldn't believe he'd gained weight!

Oh, be careful increasing the food as it doesn't take long for them
to put it on either!

Hope this helps.

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> On the other side:
> I'd like to know what raw food can I feed to help my youngster gain
weight?
> Trina

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: Calories
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:09 am ((PDT))

Hi Susanne,

I've never seen Armidillo for sell! I would be interested in
giving my dogs a taste if there's somewhere to order it or is
it just a local meat?

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "susrob061174" <susrob061174@...>
wrote:
I switch totally on RAW. Believe
> me they get a wide varitey.
> Armidillo(Whole),
> Susanne

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5.1. Re: question
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 7:27 am ((PDT))

My GSP mix is 1yr 8mo and has been raw fed since he was about 9wks
old. He is a fantastic dog and everyone who meets him comments on
how soft his coat is, clean his teeth are, and how well mannered he
is. He doesn't have any odor to his coat or breath, which is a huge
plus for me. I also have a 6mo old Newf mix and let me tell you that
I can't imagine what I would do if his drool actually had a smell to
it!

Feeding is tons easier for me than it was in the beginning. When I
started I was neurotic about calculating every mg of nutrients that
my dog was eating every day to make sure everything was "balanced."
Now I'm much more relaxed since I proved to myself that things
actually did balance themselves over time. I've found some great
sources in town and now I rarely spend more than $1/lb on average for
the dog's food. I love feeding the dogs as much as they love eating,
so it works out great.

I'd say only one thing has gotten harder for me as I continue along.
It's hard not to try and convert everyone I know and educate them on
the virtues of raw feeding.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Kathryn Starr" <tishbash@...>
wrote:

> I would like to hear from the people who have been feeding raw for
> a year or longer and describe the benefits they have noticed.
> How it is different (or easier) for you now than in the beginning.

Messages in this topic (123)
________________________________________________________________________

5.2. Re: question
Posted by: "Nataly A" rap_squad@yahoo.com rap_squad
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 7:27 am ((PDT))

Hey Kathryn,

I have been feeding my dogs and cats raw food for 3 years now.
They have whiter teeth than most dogs i know, they are trim and muscular (even though the female is spayed), they don't have strong "dog odor", smaller stools which stink alot less and they are generally healthier (we havn't been to the vet even once for anything but the once-a-year-vaccination visit).

Nat.

----- Original Message ----
From: Kathryn Starr <tishbash@gmail.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2007 1:33:01 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] question

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Messages in this topic (123)
________________________________________________________________________

5.3. Re: question
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:11 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:

> I'd say only one thing has gotten harder for me as I continue along.
> It's hard not to try and convert everyone I know and educate them on
> the virtues of raw feeding.

Hi Kathryn,
I couldn't have said it any better than Andrea did. Different dog
examples, same feelings. I have a lab that as a kibble fed dog use to
seasonally get so smelly, baths no baths, expressing anal glands that
never needed to be expressed,...that she could trigger an asthma
attack in my son. Since beginning raw feeding a year and a half ago,
she no longer smells and my son can even let her hop in bed with him.
I also have a dog that i rescued as a puppy who refused to eat more
than he needed to stay alive. Over a couple of years time, I
went through Wellness to Merrick to California Natural to Timberwolf
and he looked emaciated. If he were my only dog, the aspca would have
stopped by to visit me. Friends use to say stuff like geeeez Kathy
you gotta do something. The vet said he was healthy and just needed
Science Diet. I stumbled across raw feeding from a wonderful person,
now a close friend, at a pet store on another attempt to purchase
something he would eat. At the time, the dog weighed about 55lbs. He
now weighs 70ish pounds and looks like the picture of health. His
coat is no longer coarse and brittle. My little aussie/bc dog was raw
fed from the day she came here. When she turned a year i sent
"birthday" pictures to the rescue place, and they emailed back that
she had the most incredible coat from her litter. Just my story, KathyM

Messages in this topic (123)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
Posted by: "miensasis" kpmnlm@patmedia.net miensasis
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 7:28 am ((PDT))

Hi guys...

I have a very sweet, submissive 2yr old wheaten who has always pretty
much let us do anything to him--pull food or toys out of his mouth,
etc... Today, for the first time ever, he growled at me and bared his
teeth when I came close to a chicken leg quarter he was working on on
the kitchen floor. I was shocked--he has never done this before. As
a dog who only ever picked at his k***le, I totally get that his food
now, which he loves so much, has so much more value for him. Has
anyone experienced a dog become more protective of their food on raw?
If so, how did you handle it? I obviously don't want him to start a
bad habit now that could spiral out of control later.

Thanks,

Nancy

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 8:01 am ((PDT))

Time to do some trading with your pup. Bring something with you that
is the same value if not better than what he is eating. Tell him you
want to trade and give him the new thing while you take his chicken
quarter away. By doing this often he learns that not only is it ok for
you to come near his food, it's a darned good thing since you often
give him something even better than what he already has.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:

> Has anyone experienced a dog become more protective of their food
> on raw? If so, how did you handle it?

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
Posted by: "alexanderdewey" alexanderdewey@yahoo.com alexanderdewey
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 8:02 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:
>
I totally get that his food
> now, which he loves so much, has so much more value for him. Has
> anyone experienced a dog become more protective of their food on
raw?
> If so, how did you handle it? I obviously don't want him to start a
> bad habit now that could spiral out of control later.

Hi Nancy,

You hit the nail on the head when you said the the raw food has 'more
value' to him. But the problem isn't the raw - The behavior is
resource guarding, plain and simple and there are ways of training
your dog out of that. I'm new to the group and not sure if general
training advice is welcomed on here but I'll shoot you a seperate
email and try to help.

Alex

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

6d. Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:08 am ((PDT))

Hi Nancy,

I stumbled upon something that worked like a charm for me....

Several months ago I adopted another dog. The first meal she
was VERY food agressive, and she was also choking trying to swallow
a whole leg / thigh combo, lol.

To help her, I offered a chunk of chicken, she dropped the rest to
get it and I slid a paper plate over the meat, all the while talking
quietly to her, that it was ok.

I took it up and ribboned it.

When I put it back down for her, I also put down several more pieces
on the same towel in different areas and sat down, offering her
choice bits from the different pieces. She quickly got the message
that there would always be plenty and she didn't have to be agressive
or hurry to eat.

I did this for several days, just to make sure she understood.
Today I can take a piece from her mouth, if she needs help or it's
too small and she shares plates with her "brother" all with no
problems.

I don't know if this would work for every dog, but it worked for
us........

Hope it helps you some.

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:

Today, for the first time ever, he growled at me and bared his
> teeth when I came close to a chicken leg quarter he was working on
on
> the kitchen floor.
> If so, how did you handle it?
> Thanks,
> Nancy

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

6e. Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:11 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "alexanderdewey"
<alexanderdewey@...> wrote: I'm new to the group and not sure if general
> training advice is welcomed on here but I'll shoot you a seperate
> email and try to help.

Hi Alex,
Hi Nancy,
You got it right, Alex, training issues are kinda ot here, but if you
haven't done so already, you could both join the Raw Chat group where
we can discuss lots of stuff that would get us a stern scolding from
the mods here. Nancy, you could post your question there and Alex i
would like to read you reply to Nancy. We are all here to share and
learn. KathyM

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

6f. Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
Posted by: "Mona" mona@ptd.net deliriousmom
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:11 am ((PDT))

Nancy, I had the exact same problem with my pup Bella! Well, now that we
have been feeding raw for a few weeks, she has calmed down immensely. After
the first time that she snapped/growled at me, I started feeding her in her
crate thinking that she would feel more secure. At first I couldn't even
kneel down next to the crate without her stance becoming defensive and
baring teeth, but now I can actually lay my hand on her crate without so
much as a flinch. I have yet to try anything more invasive, I'm moving
extremely slowly on this. I don't open the crate door until she is done
eating; a few times she finished before the food was actually gone (a big
pork something or other) and she let me open the crate and take the excess
out without anything but a tail wag & happy lick on my arm. She is much
calmer with the food and its only been a few weeks. Hope that helps!

Mona

From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of miensasis
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:18 AM
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [rawfeeding] FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??

Hi guys...

Thanks,

Nancy

_,___

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: My first raw feeding
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 7:28 am ((PDT))

Glad your pup liked the food! If twere me, I'd take those organs out
for the first week or two. Organs can cause loose stools so it's best
to go slow with them. Other than that, sounds like you are well on
your way.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ryanbadie" <ryanbadie@...> wrote:

> I bought some whole chickens today, cut them down to portions for
> him without removing anything but the organs, and froze them along
> with a piece of liver or organ in each portion.

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. WHEN DO YOU CALL A DOG "TOO" THIN?
Posted by: "miensasis" kpmnlm@patmedia.net miensasis
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 7:29 am ((PDT))

Hello all...

I keep reading on the posts to adjust meals according to how your dog
looks. What do you do in the case of a "fluffy" dog like a wheaten
terrier that always looks bigger with the hair then it actually is?
Although the groomer usually bathes them, the one time I had to hose
them down I was shocked at how little they really are under all that
fur. According to the vet, my wheatens have always been "just right".
He said that if I could feel their hip bones that was good. Since
feeding raw, I've noticed I can feel all of their ribs too and I'm
wondering if that is still ok, or if I should feed more than the 8-10
oz/day I am currently feeding. Riley, my male, feels bonier than Molly
but when I feel his legs through the fur they feel more meaty. Both
dogs eat in the morning and while they come lie down on the floor in
the kitchen while we eat dinner or come investigate when I go into the
kitchen at night, they don't really beg. Their energy level is good,
too. At the start of the new raw diet they weighed 30 lbs, which is
already on the low end for a wheaten. Any thoughts?

Nancy

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: WHEN DO YOU CALL A DOG "TOO" THIN?
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:09 am ((PDT))

Hi Nancy,

Well, as I'm sure you know, every dog is different. I have a greyhound, who I'm supposed to see the last 3 ribs on. The general guideline is that you should be able to feel the ribs, but there still should be a bit of muscle and fat over them. If you can't feel them at all, or barely at all your dog is TOO FAT. If all you can feel is bone (as well as over the rest of the body) then your dog is TOO THIN.

Hope this helps,

SHannon

miensasis <kpmnlm@patmedia.net> wrote:

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Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: Websites for raw information & guidelines
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 7:36 am ((PDT))

"T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
I need alot of information & would really like some websites I can read
> otherwise, I don't feel I am doing this raw correctly. We seem to be
stuck
> in first gear & I need to get alot more info.
*****
Trina, you haven't been feeding long enough to get out of first gear.
In fact, a well-considered raw diet may not have much torque at all but
my Dog! it's got staying power.

I recommend you take it easy a bit, review what you have received from
the good people on this list, perhaps even browse the archives (OMD)
for information you haven't received to your satisfaction and maybe put
together a list of issues you feel you cannot adequate address on this
list.

It's quite all right to putz along in first gear for a while as long as
you are feeding a minimally appropriate diet, which I believe you are.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10. another question on size of food
Posted by: "Shawna" Mavides@aol.com mavidess
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 8:01 am ((PDT))

Hi everyone!

I've been lurking on this site for a couple weeks now...I switched my
4 year old Rottweiler to raw about 3 weeks ago and it's going GREAT!
I plan to switch my 5 year old Basenji/X next...and I'm considering
switching my 12 year old Chow (I'm on the fence with her since she
has a really tough time getting around and I'm not sure I want to run
the risk of diarrehea with her...but that's for another topic).

Anyway - I keep hearing people saying that items such as chicken and
turkey necks and chicken wings are too small for large dogs due to
the choking hazaard. What is the difference if a dog is given a
chicken wing or if he pulls off a chicken wing from a whole
chicken...isn't the piece that he ends up eating exactly the same? I
see the point that was made on an earlier post about them needing the
act of chewing on the bones to help with teeth etc....but it just
seems to me that what actually goes down their throat is what we need
to worry about. I've been feeding thighs/legs and he's doing
great...he has to work at them to get them apart, but I see some
pretty big hunks that he gets off going down his throat. Again...he
hasn't had any problem, but I'm just a bit confused about the advice
and wanted to have it clarified if someone could please!

Thank you and I look forward to continuing to learn on this site!!!

Sincerely,
Shawna
Glendale, AZ

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: WOW! Love the results after nearly 2 weeks!
Posted by: "helpshelteranimals" helpshelteranimals@yahoo.com helpshelteranimals
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:08 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "aliciamyan" <alicia_larson@...>
wrote:
>
> Just had to share that our 3yo GSD and 12yo Yellow Lab have really
> taken to the raw diet. We have almost finished our 2nd week on raw
> and the results are showing. Moose, our GSD, seemed to respond with
> new energy the first week. > Alicia
********

WONDERFUL!!

AG & Ruffian - Mystery Mutt

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: fast results?
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:09 am ((PDT))

Hi Andy,

I think fast results are common, I saw the same, when I changed
my dogs over to raw!

Dogs average from 7 to 16ys so they do seem to have to respond
quicker to changes in health.

JMHO

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "andrew_schoener"
<andrew_schoener@...> wrote:

> Are fast results common? Or am I just seeing things knowing he is raw
> fed.

> Andy

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13. Feeding raw and skin allergies
Posted by: "Jen" jboydmorin@gmail.com choirgirl_21
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:09 am ((PDT))

Hi all,

It's been a while since I posted and I'm actually trying to gather
some info for my mom this time around. She has a cairn terrier who
has had problems with seasonal skin allergies since she got her. They
have been treating her with otc benadryl up until this point but I
guess the problem is bad enough that the vet has now recommended oral
prednisone. I have encouraged my mom to try raw in the past, but
she's been opposed (probably to the work involved more than anything
else). Still I mentioned it, or at least a home cooked diet again and
she was open to talking more now that steroids are the alternative.

So...I would like to gather some anecdotal evidence for her about dogs
with similar allergy issues who improved after being put onto a raw
diet. If you could tell me what "traditional" treatments you tried
first (if any) and how they worked, versus what happened when you
started raw and how long it took to see improvement, etc. I would
really appreciate it. It would be helpful if the responses were
related to dogs with this particular type of seasonal allergy in
particular.

Thanks in advance. I know this is a pretty specific question, but I'm
sure there are at least a few of you who can help. I'd really like to
see my mom try some diet changes before she puts her dog on pred!

Jen

Messages in this topic (1)
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14. Help! Dog not eating.
Posted by: "nlhp4" nlhp4@yahoo.com nlhp4
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:09 am ((PDT))

OK, Trinity, my ESS, is not eating. She is raw fed, loves to eat but
I think she got a bit of motion sickness from our long drive home
last night (8+hours in the car).

Any suggestions? (hope this post is OK for this group, if not please
direct me to a raw fed group that may be able to help).

-Sibyl-
Trinity & Titan thank you too!

Messages in this topic (1)
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15. Liquid poo
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:10 am ((PDT))

Ok, question. I have been feeding through the food I've got in the pet
fridge and my dog's food is getting ripe. I know people feed it that
way, so I gave him some last night and this morning.

This morning's poo was partially formed mush followed by liquid mush.
I haven't introduced anything new in the last few days (Friday I
introduced turkey but he's had no problems with it so far so I don't
imagine it's that) so all I can think of is that maybe this is a
reaction to high meat. He's been raw-fed for about three and a half
weeks now and has been doing REALLY well. :-)

I'm not worried, just curious. He wasn't even in any hurry to void his
bowel, leaving that for the end of the walk, so I doubt he's in any
distress.

Shannon H. with Darwin the Greyt goof.

Messages in this topic (1)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12138

There are 17 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: New to raw diet and need help on getting started...Thanks!!
From: Giselle

2a. Re: Calories
From: Giselle
2b. Re: Calories
From: T Smith
2c. Re: Calories
From: Giselle

3. My first raw feeding
From: ryanbadie

4a. Re: Fwd: Message not approved: FEEDING SCHEDULE
From: katkellm

5a. Re: FEEDING SCHEDULE
From: bel_the
5b. Re: FEEDING SCHEDULE
From: Giselle
5c. Re: FEEDING SCHEDULE
From: bel olaÿfffff1o

6a. Re: Pup off feed & worming
From: harrynala

7a. Websites for raw information & guidelines
From: T Smith
7b. Re: Websites for raw information & guidelines
From: piperspetsittingservice

8a. Re: New dog, feeding question
From: caroline gebbie

9.1. question
From: Kathryn Starr
9.2. Re: question
From: piperspetsittingservice

10a. Re: What edible bones are there besides chicken bones? and a plethor
From: wolfwood53

11a. Re: Some thoughts/questions
From: wolfwood53

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: New to raw diet and need help on getting started...Thanks!!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Oct 8, 2007 11:45 pm ((PDT))

Hi!
Here's a few links to archived messages and websites to help you get
started feeding raw;

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*
You might want to print out some of the info for later reference.

Keep us posted on your progress, let us know how you and you dog is doing,
ask more Qs if you have them.

What's your name? Tell us about your dog.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 10/8/07, fanhchan <fanhchan@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!
>
> I am a mom to a 1 year old Yorkie. She is currently on Canidae and I
> would like to switch it to RAW diet.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Calories
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 12:43 am ((PDT))

Hi, Suzanne!
Don't worry, you don't really need to worry about how many
calories your dogs need to maintain their svelte figures! ^_^

Just feed more if they get a bit thin looking or feeling and feed more if
they're getting fluffy.

BTW, Kcals, or Kcalories and calories are one and the same thing. There are
different types of calories, but the one most used is the Kcalorie, common
usage is just plain old calorie.

About.com says;
http://walking.about.com/cs/calories/g/calorie.htm
"Definition: A calorie is a measure of energy expenditure. The calories
referred to in diet and exercise are kilocalories (kcal) - 1000 of the
calories referred to in science labs for measuring chemical reactions."
wiki says;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie

Everything has calories! I bet if you asked your friends how many calories
they needed in a day, they wouldn''t know! ; )

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 10/8/07, susrob061174 <susrob061174@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I hate to mention the word "kibbles", sorry. Someone the other day
> asked me how many calories do you give to a adult GD that is very
> active. I told them I don't worry about it because my dogs are on raw.
> This got me thinking, how would you know how many calories you are
> giving your dog while on raw or would you worry about it at all. Does
> the calories only pertain to kibbles? Thanks
>
> Susanne
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: Calories
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 1:58 am ((PDT))

On the other side:
I'd like to know what raw food can I feed to help my youngster gain weight?
Trina

On 10/8/07, Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote:
>
> Susanne,
>
> I wouldn't worry about calories at all. Feed the recommended %'s according
> to ideal weight... if the dog isn't getting enough, it's easy to add a bit
> more.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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2c. Re: Calories
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 2:40 am ((PDT))

Hi, Suzanne!
Feed more food. Not at the regular meal times, but add
another meal to his daily feeding schedule. Increased portions =
increased calories, results in weight gain.

Feed more meatymeat. Also fat. Chicken tends to be a fattier meat, if
you trim fat &/or skin now, trim less, or not at all. Pork shoulders
and fresh hams have lovely fat and skin on them. Mutton is fattier
than lamb. Beef and pork rib slabs have more fat and sinew than meat.
Tongue is nice fatty meatymeat. Beef heart has good fat, too, if you
can convince the meat man not to trim the cap fat from it.

Go slow. Increasing fat and boneless meals precipitously in a
new-to-raw dog can result in the dreaded cannon butt. Dogs don't often
care, but people do. ^_^

TC
Giselle

> On the other side:
> I'd like to know what raw food can I feed to help my youngster gain
weight?
> Trina

Messages in this topic (6)
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3. My first raw feeding
Posted by: "ryanbadie" ryanbadie@yahoo.com ryanbadie
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 1:58 am ((PDT))

++++++++++Mod note: Pls sign all your emails. thanks. ++++++++++

Ok great. Thank you! I fed him his ribs today and he loved it he was
outside for an hour playing with the bones and what not so i feel like
i made the right choice. He used to be indifferent about his food and
just leave it until he was starving, the big reason why I suspected
there might be something wrong. I bought some whole chickens today,
cut them down to portions for him without removing anything but the
organs, and froze them along with a piece of liver or organ in each
portion. Now in the morning, I let them thaw for a couple hours and
just let him go at it in the afternoon, eating once a day. Does this
sound right?

P.S. It was alot less expensive then I imagined it would be. I
calculated that it will cost me only 35 bucks a month to feed him this
way and he is loving it

Messages in this topic (1)
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4a. Re: Fwd: Message not approved: FEEDING SCHEDULE
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 1:58 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:

> > I just am having a hard time understanding why someone wants to
> allow the
> > dog to gorge & then fast/starve their dog intentionally.

Hi Trina,
The dog doesn't starve. The dog just doesn't get hungry again for a
longer period of time. When a dog who is fed a big meal is ready to
eat again, he is no more hungry than the dog fed twice a day. No one
on this list would allow their dog to get so hungry that the dog is or
feels like he is starving. You are using human standards and emotions
to judge how a dog sees or feels things. Dogs is dogs and peoples is
peoples. I know that you think that your dog is living in luxury
eating twice a day, but the truth is that you enjoy it way more than
your dog. Dog full is different than people full. We were taught to
not let our dogs eat till they were full or they would get sick.
What? We make them stop eating when they are still hungry and then say
its for their own good. It might be good for a kibble fed tummy or a
new to processing raw food tummy, but it is not natural/good for a dog
to have to quit eating when he has not determined that he is full.
Obviously, we are not looking to recreate the hardships in the life of
a wolf, no food so you get really hungry and starve. Our dogs are
lucky because we hunt for them and the fridge always has food in it.
KathyM

Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: FEEDING SCHEDULE
Posted by: "bel_the" bel_the@yahoo.com bel_the
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 1:58 am ((PDT))

at last, i stumbled on this thread. i was asking another forum
(pitbullforum.com) asking "once or twice/day feeding?'. almost all of
my replies went to twice/day feeding. reasons basically are sympathy
for the pet and human habits (as stated here earlier). this thread is
enough to convince me that once/day feeding is "preferable"..

i also do fasting once/week...

thanks!

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
>
> "miensasis" <kpmnlm@> wrote:
> is there a compelling reason with this model of eating to
> > feed twice a day.
> *****
> The only compelling reasons would be dog related. If health or age
> require smaller meals more frequently then that of course is what
you
> should do. Often it's recommended that small breeds be fed several
> times day, but I don't believe there's consensus with this.
>
> Otherwise, there is no reason except human habit to feed twice a
day
> and there are plenty of good reasons to feed once a day. Or less.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (11)
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5b. Re: FEEDING SCHEDULE
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 2:46 am ((PDT))

Hi!
Welcome!

You didn't tell us your name.

Fasting, except in response to a meal that comprises 2 or more days of
food, or because of digestive upset or illness, has no purpose.

What exactly, are you feeding? Who are you feeding? Inquiring minds
want to know! : )

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> At last, I stumbled on this thread. I was asking another forum
> (pitbullforum.com) asking "once or twice/day feeding?'. Almost all of
> my replies went to twice/day feeding. reasons basically are sympathy
> for the pet and human habits (as stated here earlier). This thread is
> enough to convince me that once/day feeding is "preferable"..
>
> I also do fasting once/week...
>
> thanks!

Messages in this topic (11)
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5c. Re: FEEDING SCHEDULE
Posted by: "bel olaÿfffff1o" bel_the@yahoo.com bel_the
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 5:19 am ((PDT))

Thanks again...

i'm feeding 360g of chicken back and necks with chicken liver per meal to my dal and pitbull at least 4x/week, fish meal (sardines/yellow fin) twice/week and recreational beef bones every sunday (fasting day) with a cup of milk in between (and lots of water)

i would reconsider fasting though.

been in raw feeding for 6 weeks already and my dogs love it...

bel

Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote: Hi!
Welcome!

You didn't tell us your name.

Fasting, except in response to a meal that comprises 2 or more days of
food, or because of digestive upset or illness, has no purpose.

What exactly, are you feeding? Who are you feeding? Inquiring minds
want to know! : )

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> At last, I stumbled on this thread. I was asking another forum
> (pitbullforum.com) asking "once or twice/day feeding?'. Almost all of
> my replies went to twice/day feeding. reasons basically are sympathy
> for the pet and human habits (as stated here earlier). This thread is
> enough to convince me that once/day feeding is "preferable"..
>
> I also do fasting once/week...
>
> thanks!

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
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6a. Re: Pup off feed & worming
Posted by: "harrynala" michelle@synertex.co.uk harrynala
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 1:59 am ((PDT))

++++++++Mod note: please sign all emails +++++++++++++

Many thanks for your reply Trina.

>>whether she's just naturally not needing all the food now she's
>>got rid of her worm?

> I think this is correct

I was kinda hoping that this was the case, however I would say food
intake has more than halved, which seems a heck of a lot going to the
worms! e.g. this morning I gave her her normal 350gr/0.77lb beef
meat (no bone this time), she left alot so I re-weighed what was left
and it was 225gr/0.49lb

I have always fed around 3% of body weight (she's 25kg/55lb) split
into two meals. If this is her new intake, that means she's now only
on 1% of body weight. Can this be ok?

On the worming front with raw feeding, I had originally understood, a
natural healthier diet meant the likelyhood of worms was very much
reduced and had even read some reports that during the change from
commercial to raw that the body had naturally expunged existing
worms. As a result I haven't wormed her since first getting her 6
months ago when she was wormed as part of her health check. Was this
misguided do you think? I just hate pumping chemicals into her if
it's not necessary.

> I think if she does eat, looks good, acts healthy, she is fine.

That's what my husband thinks! He also thinks I fret too much :)

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Websites for raw information & guidelines
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 2:00 am ((PDT))

Can anyone point me in the direction of some websites that give me some
bone, meat, food guidelines & information for raw feeding please?
I need alot of information & would really like some websites I can read
otherwise, I don't feel I am doing this raw correctly. We seem to be stuck
in first gear & I need to get alot more info.
Thank you,
Trina
--
Chip (deaf Dalmatian)
Casper (deaf Great Dane)
Whisper (deaf Great Dane)
Louie (hearing Great Dane)
Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso)
Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso)
Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: Websites for raw information & guidelines
Posted by: "piperspetsittingservice" piperspetsittingservice@yahoo.com piperspetsittingservice
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 4:55 am ((PDT))

Trina, BLESS YOU for caring for those disabled pets!

I have a ton of links in my favorites that should help you. As a
rather new raw feeder (my 10 year old grey has been on raw for almost
7 weeks) I can tell you that these sites, as well as several yahoo
groups, helped me get over my nervousness and answered many questions.

I also read several books with Raw Dog Food by Carina Beth McDonald
being my favorite.

Good luck to you!

http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm
http://www.dogtorj.net/id51.html
http://www.rawlearning.com/fish.html
http://rawfed.com/myths/honest.html
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Sandra in Florida

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: New dog, feeding question
Posted by: "caroline gebbie" caz320ml@yahoo.com caz320ml
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 4:02 am ((PDT))

They are talking about meals with 50 or 60% of undigestable items in it, so obviously larger amounts of undigestable will cause more trouble, IMO.

Caroline, Bonnie and Londo
2 weeks on raw, Londo has always had a back problem and had very low energy, at last he is a proper Boxer. LOL

katkellm <katkellm@yahoo.com> wrote: why do most professional say bigger meals cause bloat

---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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9.1. question
Posted by: "Kathryn Starr" tishbash@gmail.com scatteredlite
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 4:42 am ((PDT))

Hello everyone,
I have just joined the group a few days ago. I have not yet started to feed
my GSD raw.

I would like to hear from the people who have been feeding raw for a year
or longer and describe the benefits they have noticed.
How it is different (or easier) for you now than in the beginning.
My dog has never done well on anything I feed him. From the most expensive
kibble etc. He is healthy but not where I would like to see him.
Thank you all for your responses.
Kathryn

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (120)
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9.2. Re: question
Posted by: "piperspetsittingservice" piperspetsittingservice@yahoo.com piperspetsittingservice
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 4:58 am ((PDT))

Kathryn, I don't fit into the "feeding for a year or more" category
but can tell you that after just 2 WEEKS by 10 year old greyhounds
teeth and gums were healthier, her once dull, dry coat was soft,
smooth and shiny and she finally started looking forward to meal time!
Also, her stools are smaller and harder now since she is "using"
more of her food than she did when she was on the "K word".

The changes are not hard, you just need to put a little more thought
into mealtime as opposed to tossing in a cup or two of dry food or
canned. I plan my meals out 3-4 days in advance so I only need to
pick out today's meal and we're all set.

You don't need to be feeding raw for over a year to see the benefits.
I think they start immediately. If I can SEE improvements I can only
imagine what great changes are going on inside that I CAN'T see!

Good luck to you.

Sandra in Florida

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Kathryn Starr" <tishbash@...> wrote:

Hello everyone,
I would like to hear from the people who have been feeding raw for a
year or longer and describe the benefits they have noticed.
How it is different (or easier) for you now than in the beginning.

Kathryn

Messages in this topic (120)
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10a. Re: What edible bones are there besides chicken bones? and a plethor
Posted by: "wolfwood53" fiona_laidlaw@hotmail.co.uk wolfwood53
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 5:42 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@...>
wrote:
> Lastly, just about EVERY time after my dog eats, his face seems to
> be very itchy.

My dog also does this although not every time he eats, and strangely
enough I was thinking last night I should ask about it on this forum.
He rubs his face on his mat or rubs his muzzle with his paws. I
suppose he could be cleaning himself (although being clean is not high
priority with him!). I did wonder if maybe he gets little bits of
meat or bone stuck between his teeth (like we do)sometimes and is
trying to dislodge them.

Fiona and Ayasca

Messages in this topic (8)
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11a. Re: Some thoughts/questions
Posted by: "wolfwood53" fiona_laidlaw@hotmail.co.uk wolfwood53
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 6:13 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
Hi Giselle

Thanks for the advice re messaging and thanks for the links, which
I'll check out.

> Bigger food can be a little puzzling for dogs at first, when they
are used
> to getting their meals in little brown nuggets.

Well, its not so much that I've been feeding him small pieces
intentionally but the diet I was using was more boney type stuff
(lots of chicken wings which he eventually totally lost interest in -
as you would I suppose!). I may well try your tip of making some cuts
in the meat to give him something to get hold of. Perhaps he was
puzzled by his first big bit of meat as you say, at one point he had
hold of it and was shaking it. Presumably in the hope that it would
fall apart (unless he was just making sure it was dead!!).

Take Care

Fiona and Ayasca

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
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