[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12140

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Liquid poo
From: Shannon Hully
1b. Re: Liquid poo
From: nlhp4

2a. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
From: Andrea
2b. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
From: Tracy P-C
2c. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
From: john payne
2d. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
From: nlhp4

3a. Re: Feeding raw and skin allergies
From: Andrea
3b. Re: Feeding raw and skin allergies
From: Sonja

4a. Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
From: Kevin Brown

5a. Are there any meats that I need to deep-freeze before feeding?
From: Yasuko herron
5b. Re: Are there any meats that I need to deep-freeze before feeding?
From: tottime47

6a. Re: Calories
From: Sandee Lee
6b. Re: Calories
From: susrob061174

7a. Re: Raw Beef ribs?
From: tottime47

8.1. Re: question
From: Michael Moore
8.2. Re: question
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

9a. How to start raw for puppy (how to access the list archives)
From: n_knezevich
9b. Re: How to start raw for puppy (how to access the list archives)
From: Andrea

10a. Re: fast results?/new subject ticks
From: Melissa

11a. Re: What edible bones are there besides chicken bones? and a plethor
From: spricketysprock

12a. Re: What edible bones are there besides chicken bones? and a plethor
From: Melissa

13a. Raw Milk Kefir?
From: whitezinfendel23
13b. Re: Raw Milk Kefir?
From: Andrea

14a. Re: WHEN DO YOU CALL A DOG "TOO" THIN?
From: Melissa

15.1. New to Raw Feeding
From: Michelle Rhodes

Messages
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1a. Re: Liquid poo
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:12 am ((PDT))

Oh, I forgot to mention that he had hookworms and I've been giving him
DE for that. Could the liquid poo this morning just be his body
getting rid of them or something related to that?

Shannon H.

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: Liquid poo
Posted by: "nlhp4" nlhp4@yahoo.com nlhp4
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 12:25 pm ((PDT))

Hi Shannon.

Personal experience says the liquid poo you described is nothing to be
concerned about just yet. Could be a combination of anything that you
mentioned, the ring worm, high meat, etc.

Neither of my dogs does well if I feed them meat that has been kept
just a bit too long, the ESS is better than the lab mix but both will
get runny stool and the ESS will sometimes turn her nose up at it if
the meat has truly gone by.

I would keep an eye out on him to ensure it doesn't get worse and
realize that some dogs take better to the "slightly gone by" meat than
others.

Good luck.

-Sibyl

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:42 am ((PDT))

I wouldn't try to make her eat until she feels like it. Offer whatever
is her favorite meal at dinnertime, and if she doesn't want it don't
fret. She'll eat when she feels better.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "nlhp4" <nlhp4@...> wrote:
>
> OK, Trinity, my ESS, is not eating. She is raw fed, loves to eat
> but I think she got a bit of motion sickness from our long drive
> home last night (8+hours in the car).

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
Posted by: "Tracy P-C" tpreston721@yahoo.com tpreston721
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 10:23 am ((PDT))

You may try giving her some ginger (I usually use gingersnaps) - I start be giving it when we aren't traveling right away, so they don't think they are going for a "ride" and then they get all worked up - I give the gingersnaps about 30 minutes before we go for a ride - If they are still feeling yucky I will give another when we get home - Ginger is naturally settling for the tummy - You can try candied ginger or maybe make a little ginger tea for her - I hope this helps - I also wouldn't force her to eat anything until she is ready, she isn't going to starve to death

Good luck
Tracy

nlhp4 <nlhp4@yahoo.com> wrote:
OK, Trinity, my ESS, is not eating. She is raw fed, loves to eat but
I think she got a bit of motion sickness from our long drive home
last night (8+hours in the car).

This happened once before and she ended up at the vets office because
I didn't know what else to do when she didn't eat for three days. Of
course, the vet drugged her up and blamed the raw feeding, that it
upsets her stomach. Knowing my vet was full of bologne, I gave the
pills to help her appetite come back and she was better by the next
day and eating like a horse.

In an attempt to avoid the vet visit this time, is there anything I
can feed her (besides pumpkin, she won't eat it canned or otherwise
when she IS feeling well) that will stimulate her appetite more
naturally being that she is raw fed and I try to keep her out of the
perscription drug arena?

Any suggestions? (hope this post is OK for this group, if not please
direct me to a raw fed group that may be able to help).

-Sibyl-
Trinity & Titan thank you too!

---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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2c. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
Posted by: "john payne" brendajohn2823@yahoo.com brendajohn2823
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:13 am ((PDT))

just went thru the same thing with our Angel, didnt eat for 3 days, nothing!! Yesterday i offered her some rice, she ate, then ate a small amount last night. Today she acted like she was starving. since she had no other symptoms, i didnt take her to the vet, so maybe theres a dog flu going around?
Brenda

Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:
I wouldn't try to make her eat until she feels like it. Offer whatever
is her favorite meal at dinnertime, and if she doesn't want it don't
fret. She'll eat when she feels better.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "nlhp4" <nlhp4@...> wrote:
>
> OK, Trinity, my ESS, is not eating. She is raw fed, loves to eat
> but I think she got a bit of motion sickness from our long drive
> home last night (8+hours in the car).

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Messages in this topic (5)
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2d. Re: Help! Dog not eating.
Posted by: "nlhp4" nlhp4@yahoo.com nlhp4
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:52 am ((PDT))

Thanks Tracey. I will be buying Ginger Tea and possibly some candied
ginger tonight. I really do think she just gets herself worked up when
her tummy is upset and ends up causing herself more problems. The last
time she didn't eat for four days, and dropped almost 6 pounds (which
at the time was 15% of her body weight). Her eyes started getting
sunken in and of course her energy level decreased before I finally
gave in and took her to the vet. I am trying to avoid this result this
time and thus will try just about anything once to see if it helps
her.

You feed the gingersnaps before the car ride and after?

Thanks again to all, any more advice is always welcome as well.

-Sibyl

> You may try giving her some ginger (I usually use gingersnaps) - I
start be giving it when we aren't traveling right away, so they don't
think they are going for a "ride" and then they get all worked up - I
give the gingersnaps about 30 minutes before we go for a ride - If they
are still feeling yucky I will give another when we get home - Ginger
is naturally settling for the tummy - You can try candied ginger or
maybe make a little ginger tea for her - I hope this helps - I also
wouldn't force her to eat anything until she is ready, she isn't going
to starve to death
>
> Good luck
> Tracy

>

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: Feeding raw and skin allergies
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:42 am ((PDT))

Are they sure the allergies aren't food allergies? If the dog is for
sure allergic to pollen I don't think a raw diet would make it go away,
even though you can't go wrong in working to build the immune system.
It's entirely possible that the dog is allergic to something in the
food, in which case a raw diet will most certainly help. If you live
near your mom you can offer to do the leg work and supply all the food
for a month. If she sees an improvement then you can work with her on
doing it on her own. There's no aneccdotal evidence that is more
valuable than first hand experience.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jen" <jboydmorin@...> wrote:

> It's been a while since I posted and I'm actually trying to gather
> some info for my mom this time around. She has a cairn terrier who
> has had problems with seasonal skin allergies since she got her.
> They have been treating her with otc benadryl up until this point
> but I guess the problem is bad enough that the vet has now
> recommended oral prednisone.

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Feeding raw and skin allergies
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:39 am ((PDT))

Hi Jen,

Although we really have no idea at this point if Kodie's allergies are seasonal, environmental, food related, caused by vaccinosis, caused by overuse of antibiotics, or all of the above. One thing is for sure...she's itchy and she used to chew her feet 'til they bled. We've had dozens and dozens of trips to the vet to take care of symptoms. We've tried 5 vets....three conventional, two holistic. I've balked and stopped short of allergy testing and shots, I'd rather not go that route unless we're really at the point of desperation.

We've tried Benedryl, Atarax, malaseb spray, Pavia pads, OTC sprays, gentle shampoos, medicated shampoos, anti fungal shampoos, and more ointments than I can remember. If you name a brand of kibble, we've probably tried it. I kept the raw diet in my back pocket as the one thing to try before going in for the allergy tests.

My dog is pretty messed up, so I didn't see the instant results that a lot of other people see. In fact, her paws didn't clear up until after 6 MONTHS of feeding strictly raw, and even now they're not at 100%. The one thing that did improve in a month's time was her breath. She used to be able to kill an angry bull with that breath, but it went away. I never thought I'd see the day where she's as healthy as she is now, and I know it's because of the diet. She's still itchy and we still take measures to keep her from chewing her paws, but it's nowhere near the critical state it once was.

And to my benefit, feeding raw is easier than kibble + all the supplements I had her on.

Sonja

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Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: FOOD AGGRESSION ON RAW??
Posted by: "Kevin Brown" jerseykev@aol.com noblarneyzone
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 9:42 am ((PDT))

What everyone is telling you is sound advise.

I have two mastiff pups a month apart. The older "Baby" 5 months has
been in the house the longest and on raw the longest. The little one
came to us a week and a few days ago, I put her on raw this week,
Georgeanne is just about 4 months. At first she was extremely
agressive when it came to all her food and water. Growls, teeth, the
whole 9 yards.

She just came from a breeder where she had to fight to get her fair
share among 8 puppies. Today I actually sat between them and kept
bringing them back to their own food. As Georgeanne realises the
other puppies are not here she will mellow out. Just this mornings
time spent withthem as they ate improves the situation 150%.

Kevin Brown
The Jersey Shore
guardiansbythesea.com

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys...
>
> I have a very sweet, submissive 2yr old wheaten who has always
pretty
> much let us do anything to him--pull food or toys out of his mouth,
> etc... Today, for the first time ever, he growled at me and bared
his
> teeth when I came close to a chicken leg quarter he was working on
on
> the kitchen floor. I was shocked--he has never done this
before. As
> a dog who only ever picked at his k***le, I totally get that his
food
> now, which he loves so much, has so much more value for him. Has
> anyone experienced a dog become more protective of their food on
raw?
> If so, how did you handle it? I obviously don't want him to start
a
> bad habit now that could spiral out of control later.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nancy
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. Are there any meats that I need to deep-freeze before feeding?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 10:23 am ((PDT))

I was browsing through the internet and came across this

http://www.exoticmeats.com/docs/ExoticMeats-What-things-taste-like.pdf

Now,it explain that what meats taste like what and interesting but, if I get any of the meats from the list above,are there any meat that I need to deep-freeze?

Snake,doves,gator .. can I feed raw?

Anybody fed them to dogs??

thanks,

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Are there any meats that I need to deep-freeze before feeding?
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:16 am ((PDT))

Hi Yassy,

Great and interesting site! Thank You!
This site is for human meats, like you buy in
the grocery store.

All of them would be safe to feed
immediately, expensive but safe for dogs!

Might be ordering some treats myself, once winter
gets here, lol. I know they'll ship frozen and hopefully
stay that way till they get here.

Carol, Charkee (I want alligator) & Moli (I want kangaroo)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:

>

http://www.exoticmeats.com/docs/ExoticMeats-What-things-taste-
like.pdf

Snake,doves,gator .. can I feed raw?

> thanks,
> yassy

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: Calories
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:02 am ((PDT))

More food, more meat, more fat.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "T Smith" <coldbeach@gmail.com>

> On the other side:
> I'd like to know what raw food can I feed to help my youngster gain
weight?

Messages in this topic (11)
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6b. Re: Calories
Posted by: "susrob061174" susrob061174@yahoo.com susrob061174
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:53 am ((PDT))

Hi Carol, Charkee & Moli,

I dont think you can get it. We live out in the county. I normally
trap and hunt some of thier food but I have one female that will take
care of anything that comes in the yards and pasture. I have to cover
holes in the yard from digging up moles. LOL

Susanne

Messages in this topic (11)
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7a. Re: Raw Beef ribs?
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:14 am ((PDT))

Hi,

Not necessary unless you have a very tiny dog who is new to raw feeding
and needs a little time to figure out the bone part or a very old, sick
dog who doesn't have the strength to chew anymore.

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ryanbadie" <ryanbadie@...> wrote:

> Im unsure about is the crushing of the bones I read about
> occasionally. What is the purpose of this and is it necessary?

Messages in this topic (6)
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8.1. Re: question
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:14 am ((PDT))

>>I have just joined the group a few days ago. I have not yet started to feed
my GSD raw.<<

Good for you, Kathryn!! GSDs do soooo much better on raw than on kibble; their "funky" digestive issues often disappear completely.

>>I would like to hear from the people who have been feeding raw for a year
or longer and describe the benefits they have noticed.<<

We've been rawfeeding for six years. Benefits are numerous -- incredibly clean teeth (with *no* effort on my part!), shinier coats, better muscling, wonderful stamina & energy, smaller stools, very few vet visits, no doggy odor or foul breath.

>>How it is different (or easier) for you now than in the beginning.<<

I'm a lot more casual about it now!! Like many, I obsessed over giving my dog bones (I was positive bones would kill them!) I worried about amounts, variety, bone (did I mention I worried about bones??), organs, you name it. Now, I just feed my dogs.

>>My dog has never done well on anything I feed him. From the most expensive
kibble etc. He is healthy but not where I would like to see him.<<

I think that you may not realize how unhealthy your dog *might* be; this is true of many of us, I suspect. I used to *think* that my dogs were healthy; the difference in them since rawfeeding convinces me that I had no idea what true "good health" is.
Many of the list are probably quite tired of my story, but here it is -- my rescue GSD, Holly, was an older puppy (~ 9 mos. we think) when we fostered her. She had been found running loose near a county agency --where she'd been seen for over two weeks before anyone bothered to call animal control. She was so thin you could count ribs, her backbone stuck out, etc. and her coat was dull. She was started on a so-called premium ki**le immediately. For an entire year, this dog had diarrhea daily. We did so many stool checks, blood work, digestive enzymes, etc., it would boggle your mind. Nothing worked. The only thing that saved Holly was switching to rawfeeding! Within days, the diarrhea had stopped, she began to put on weight (probably for the first time in her life!)
She's seven now, fit as a fiddle, energetic (does agility) with an incredible coat and a puppy's zest for life. I have no doubt she would have died years ago if not for this diet. Nature really did "get it right," and once we arrive at understanding that, our dogs' health improves dramatically!

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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8.2. Re: question
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:40 am ((PDT))

I've been feeding for over a year and a half, no skin problems, no allergies, no teeth cleanings, no fleas, no smelly coat, or breath, no major or minor health issues. All the health problems I have had, and only one, is eye problems, they got from going to the dog park.;)
So, for me, I have less vet bills, and less cleaning bills, and less dental bills, so, for me, they should live longer, and it all adds up:)
Mine, two dane puppies, were fed raw since I got them, my pomchi, since I got her from my Aunt passing away at her age of two, and her problems with anal gland issues have stopped since raw feeding. So I have done it with my puppies since they were little, the new one, since she came to us, so we have a mix of times, and the result is the same, they all are doing fine, and thriving well.
Hope that helps you.
Jeni

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9a. How to start raw for puppy (how to access the list archives)
Posted by: "n_knezevich" n_knezevich@yahoo.com n_knezevich
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:14 am ((PDT))

I'm one month away from getting my puppy and I think have decided to
feed her Raw. I read another posting asking how to start the raw
feeding, and a posting referred to the List Archives. I hate to admit
it...but I can't see the list archives.

I don't want to go through what I did with my last dog, a Shep X, who
slowly over 10 years developed/was diagnosed with IBD (seeing her
getting worse over time, the drugs, "hypoallergenic" dog kibble food,
etc.) Then just 3 months ago, shy of her 12 birthday, she was
diagnosed with a hemangiasarcoma tumour. She lasted 3 more weeks.
It's hard to know that I contributed to all of that by making the
choices that I did. I had no clue at all.

This time I want to do it right (or right-er, at least.)

Thanks,

Nada K. in Vancouver.

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: How to start raw for puppy (how to access the list archives)
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:52 am ((PDT))

Welcome to the group! Accessing the archives is easy once you get to
the webpage for the group. Go to

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding
(If you aren't part of Yahoo!Groups yet you'll have to sign up to look
at the messages). You can either click on messages and just start
reading, or you can do a search. Since we have so many messages in the
archives I suggest an advanced search. For example, if you search for
messages that have "newbie" in the subject you'll end up with about
3000 posts to go through that will be chock full of info. If you have
specific questions you can always do an archive search if you need
answers quick, but don't be afraid to post specific questions too.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "n_knezevich" <n_knezevich@...>
wrote:

> I hate to admit it...but I can't see the list archives.

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10a. Re: fast results?/new subject ticks
Posted by: "Melissa" mwood8402@yahoo.com mwood8402
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:39 am ((PDT))

It's something that I have always heard, but didn't believe until I
saw the results myself. I explanation I have always heard is that
parasites aren't attracted to a healthy animal. If there is a more
specific explanation I don't know what it is!

-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Lene Andersen" <leneandersen@...>
wrote:
> Reading your remark, made me realize that I haven't removed any
ticks >from my dogs the last couple of month, which is about the same
time >they have been fed a mostly raw diet. I'm wondering however what
the >correlation is supposed to be, do you (or anyone else) know?

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11a. Re: What edible bones are there besides chicken bones? and a plethor
Posted by: "spricketysprock" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:39 am ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!

> Probably more than he needs from a nutritional perspective; not
> enough for a good mental and physical workout. What size dog, how
> old, any health issues that would get in the way of bone chomping?

About 65 or 70 lbs, 10 yrs, no health issues. He only gets a small
piece in the morning for his bone intake and then later he'll get
his meal of beef or goat or whatever, that is usually much meatier
and has larger bones. I was asking mainly because people said weight
bearing bones can break teeth so what other bones are soft enough to
consume?

> What do you mean overly?
Sometimes it's pretty hard but passable. I think he just needs more
bone and exercise is a good idea as well..

> Hearts are fed as muscle meat, not organ.
> Where are you looking? My guess is you haven't broadened your
> horizons enough.
I have found beef liver. I've broadeneed my horizons except for
trecking into Boston markets, which I rather not have to do. Are
there any organs that are essential besides liver?

> Protein variety is fine, what's the status of body part variety?
In what shape are these meat proteins getting to your dog?

Whole duck, whole chicken, the goat chunk was rather large, looked
like a rib section? Not sure about the rabbit but that's a large
chunk as well. The beef is usually ground as I refuse to pay more
for it, but I just feed more bone on those days.

> In what way did he have trouble passing these parts? I mean,
could you SEE the parts, were they not digested? Were they actually
intact and stuck? My guess is his difficulty was related to not
enough flesh. Lots of fat, lots of bone, not enough meat.

That's surprising because everyone here stresses whole prey for
proper ratios, so I figured a whole duck was perfect! I wasn't there
but my mom said it was very very hard and she could see the foot.

Thanks Chris!

Messages in this topic (11)
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12a. Re: What edible bones are there besides chicken bones? and a plethor
Posted by: "Melissa" mwood8402@yahoo.com mwood8402
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:52 am ((PDT))

Mine is the same way. He also licks his paws and wipes his face like
a cat. I think he's just cleaning himself because he only does it for
a few minutes after eating and never any other time. If he did it
often all day long, then I would start to wonder.

-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <ladyver@...> wrote:>
> I might be able to help with this. The world is my dog's napkin
after she eats raw.

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13a. Raw Milk Kefir?
Posted by: "whitezinfendel23" whitezinfendel23@yahoo.com whitezinfendel23
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 11:54 am ((PDT))

Can the raw meat eating dogs have raw milk kefir??

Holly

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13b. Re: Raw Milk Kefir?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 12:23 pm ((PDT))

If you are asking wether raw milk is part of a species appropriate
diet, no it isn't. Some people use it for probiotic purposes, but
healthy raw fed dogs shouldn't need additional probiotics in order to
digest their food. If the dog values it as a treat I see no problem
with it.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "whitezinfendel23"
<whitezinfendel23@...> wrote:

> Can the raw meat eating dogs have raw milk kefir??

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14a. Re: WHEN DO YOU CALL A DOG "TOO" THIN?
Posted by: "Melissa" mwood8402@yahoo.com mwood8402
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 12:24 pm ((PDT))

I have a Sheltie that's very fluffy. You should be able to feel all
the ribs, but there should be a thin layer of flesh on top.

-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all...
>
> I keep reading on the posts to adjust meals according to how your dog
> looks. What do you do in the case of a "fluffy" dog like a wheaten
> terrier that always looks bigger with the hair then it actually is?

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15.1. New to Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Michelle Rhodes" mrhodes1970@yahoo.com mrhodes1970
Date: Tue Oct 9, 2007 1:01 pm ((PDT))

I am new to raw feeding and have been doing lots of reading but have not made the switch yet. I would greatly appreciate any advice and knowledge anyone would be willing to share with me on making the switch and what others feed. Thanks in advance.

Michelle Rhodes

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