Feed Pets Raw Food: Jan 5, 2008

Saturday, January 5, 2008

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12463

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: raw food ordering in Canada
From: Scott Baker
1b. Re: raw food ordering in Canada
From: jordan_spiva
1c. raw food ordering in Canada
From: Lynda McLellan
1d. Re: raw food ordering in Canada
From: Doreen Barton

2a. What is considered organ meat?
From: francesdrew
2b. Re: What is considered organ meat?
From: carnesbill

3a. Re: gassy pup
From: blue eyed

4a. Re: Honey?
From: Ania Tysarczyk
4b. Re: Honey?
From: bearspicnic2000

5a. New to raw, 8mo puppy gulping
From: Darjeelingirl

6a. Pig feet?
From: Sheila0344@aol.com
6b. Re: Pig feet?
From: carnesbill
6c. Re: Pig feet?
From: katkellm

7a. Re: loose stools/really need some feedback
From: Laurie Swanson

8a. Re: Feeding Routine
From: Yasuko herron
8b. Re: Feeding Routine
From: katkellm

9a. Re: Recent Vet Visit/yeasty ears
From: Laurie Swanson

10a. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
From: blue eyed

11a. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: Sandee Lee
11b. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: carnesbill

12.1. Re: worried
From: Lynda McLellan

13a. Re: Pork ear
From: Yasuko herron

14. Hello there everyone hoping for some advice to a newby
From: persia_elvis

15. beef, pork and lamb...
From: Elizabeth

16a. Re: Portion sizes for a 40 pounder
From: katkellm

Messages
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1a. Re: raw food ordering in Canada
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 12:14 pm ((PST))

I don't know if they ship or not, but cant hurt to contact them.

http://www.totallyrawdogfood.com/

On Jan 5, 2008 1:26 PM, Tracey WAGC <wagc@sasktel.net> wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is a raw food supplier in Canada for things
> like ground tripe, trachea, tripe/organ blend, gullets, ground pancreas? If
> there isn't is there enough raw feeders in canada to warrant one, do you
> think?
>
> tracey
>

--
Scott

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Messages in this topic (6)
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1b. Re: raw food ordering in Canada
Posted by: "jordan_spiva" jordan_spiva@yahoo.com jordan_spiva
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 12:14 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Tracey WAGC <wagc@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if there is a raw food supplier in Canada for things like ground tripe,
trachea, tripe/organ blend, gullets, ground pancreas? If there isn't is there enough raw
feeders in canada to warrant one, do you think?
>
>
> Heres a good supplier. She lives in Nova Scotia.
http://www.totallyrawdogfood.com/

Jordan

Messages in this topic (6)
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1c. raw food ordering in Canada
Posted by: "Lynda McLellan" lyndam950@telus.net lyndam22
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:07 pm ((PST))

It's a big country Tracey, where are you? I know of a few food co-ops in the Calgary area. Lots of feed lots and butchering around there. I need a good one in BC.
Seems like there are hardly any butcher shops left that take a live animal, butcher and then sell the meat. These are the ones that could sell the parts.
Take care, Lynda

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Messages in this topic (6)
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1d. Re: raw food ordering in Canada
Posted by: "Doreen Barton" teddyzach1413@yahoo.ca teddyzach1413
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:07 pm ((PST))

Dear Tracey,

I think there is a need for more raw food suppliers in Canada. If more people raw fed than the cost would go down. I am finding it extremely expensive to feed my 2 dogs . Plus to try and find alternative meat its much easier in the US.

Doreen
Teddy and Zachs mum

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Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. What is considered organ meat?
Posted by: "francesdrew" francesdrew@yahoo.com francesdrew
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:45 pm ((PST))

I know that heart and gizzard are considered mucsle meats...but do they also double as
organ meat?

What other organ meats are readily available (other than liver)?

Are intestines organ meat? Tongue?

What percentage of organ meat should liver take up?

For organ meat I have been using beef liver, gizzard and hearts, whatever giblets I get in
my turkeys and I recently I bought sweetbreads, but those are hard to find.

Thanks,
Frances

Messages in this topic (2)
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2b. Re: What is considered organ meat?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:06 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "francesdrew" <francesdrew@...>
wrote:
>
> I know that heart and gizzard are considered mucsle meats...but
> do they also double as organ meat?

No

> What other organ meats are readily available (other than liver)?

Kidney, pancreas

> Are intestines organ meat?

> Tongue?

No

> What percentage of organ meat should liver take up?

It makes very little difference. Somewhere between half and all.

> For organ meat I have been using beef liver, gizzard and
> hearts, whatever giblets I get in my turkeys and I recently
> I bought sweetbreads, but those are hard to find.

I have a hard time finding anyhting but liver. There are kidneys in
some of the chicken quarters I feed and most all the chicken backs.
Those are about all the organs I feed other than liver.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: gassy pup
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:45 pm ((PST))

My pup was REALLY gassy on pet food and it has pretty much gone now apart from if he is fed any pork meals.

Natalie

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Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Re: Honey?
Posted by: "Ania Tysarczyk" AniaJRT@sbcglobal.net aniajrt
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:48 pm ((PST))

LOL....my JRT's also think they are allowed on the coffee table, but
only when mom is not around :). I don't want to even imagine a JRT
with that much sugar in him/her, but other than that, I would think
your dog would be OK. Though it's not something I would feed to a dog
on purpose. Plus JRT's usually have plenty of energy without any
help...LOL.

Ania and 2 jacks.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Debi C" <dcole6@...> wrote:
My JRT got on the coffee table, pulled the plastic lid
> off and cleaned out a bowl of it. No ill effects so far.
>
> Debi, 2 Jacks and an App
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: Honey?
Posted by: "bearspicnic2000" bearspicnic2000@yahoo.com bearspicnic2000
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:48 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Debi C" <dcole6@...> wrote:
>
> Any thoughts on honey? It is a naturally occuring substance and
bears,
> racoons and coyotes will find it and eat it. Maybe for energy and
> weight gain? My JRT got on the coffee table, pulled the plastic lid
> off and cleaned out a bowl of it. No ill effects so far.
>
> Debi, 2 Jacks and an App
>
Hiya,
I give my Lab Active manuka honey for upset tummies. No harm done and
she thinks it is a treat! It is used world wild in dogs and humans for
the treatment of stomach ulcers and stomach upsets. I have had
tremnendous results with my lab. Good luck. Kerry

Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. New to raw, 8mo puppy gulping
Posted by: "Darjeelingirl" darjeelingirl@comcast.net zoookeeeper
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:48 pm ((PST))

>>>Is there anything else I can do to make gulping less likely and to
>>>get through the bunch of chicken I cut up that I don't want to waste?

I'm a newbie and had the same issue - the answer is, give it to him frozen!
:-) It works great. You can also grind up (or just ball up) the itty bitty
pieces and form them into softball-sized balls and freeze them. Give those
frozen. Sherlock loves his burgerballs!

Patsy and the Rawbies

Sherlock Bones August 2007 beagle

Cuthbert June 1998 yellow tabby

Snickers August 2003 tortoiseshell long hair

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Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Pig feet?
Posted by: "Sheila0344@aol.com" Sheila0344@aol.com s_mayo2002
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:48 pm ((PST))

My local super walmart sometimes has pig feet. Is this a good food for a
meal one day a week?
Sheila

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

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Messages in this topic (6)
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6b. Re: Pig feet?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:07 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sheila0344@... wrote:
>
> My local super walmart sometimes has pig feet. Is this a good
> food for a meal one day a week?

I consider them more of a chew toy than food.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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6c. Re: Pig feet?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:08 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sheila0344@... wrote:
> My local super walmart sometimes has pig feet. Is this a good food
for a
> meal one day a week?

Hi Sheila,
Pig feet are a great chew, keep em busy thing, but since they don't
have much meat on them, i either feed them as a side with a hunk of
boneless meat or as a snack type thing. KathyM

Messages in this topic (6)
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7a. Re: loose stools/really need some feedback
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:48 pm ((PST))

Hi Marge,

Was there a time when Foxy had more solid stools, and if so, what were
you feeding then? It could be too much food, too much new food, too
much fatty food, too many different foods at one meal (incl. the canned
salmon)... And/or he may just need more bone. Sometimes stress can
also be involved--I know with the holidays many people have stress,
houseguests, disrupted routines, etc.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "marge" <marge_moriarty17551@...>
wrote:
>
> I am into 1+ months of raw feeding my two mini poodles.
> Foxy seems to have very soupy stools and seems to go frequently.

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: Feeding Routine
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:48 pm ((PST))

>Most raw food will not be eaten from a bowl!

I agrree with Sandee. My dog Corgi never eat food from bowl except raw Egg. All other stuff are directly placed on shower curtain that I use as feeding mat.

It is big enough for her to carry food around wherever she wants to lay down,pawing on it andstripping or just siomply laying like superman style with leg all out,relaxing gnawing bones after stripping meat off the bone.

Directly placing food on mat is one advantage for human side; no washing bowl required;one less washing.

I am planning to feed big meal tonight and,menu is oxtail.I am sure she will be tiring after all those tackling excersize tonight and would sleep deep.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (6)
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8b. Re: Feeding Routine
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:08 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "scottginapeckford"
<scottginapeckford@...> wrote:
>> We live in Canada and often the outside temps is deep freezing
> cold. We are finding that eating raw inside is very messy.

Hi Scott,
I live in the country about 2 hours from Chicago. The Windy City has
been living up to its name recently with wind chills of 15 below, and
my dogs still eat outside. Not that you have too, but its ok if they
eat outside in the cold. KathyM

Messages in this topic (6)
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9a. Re: Recent Vet Visit/yeasty ears
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:49 pm ((PST))

I can't speak to the injection or the acidophilus. Can't see how
yogurt could help--I just believe nothing is meant to digest any kind
of milk or dairy beyond weaning. If I give my dogs cheese or ice
cream they get bad gas.

My dog had chronic yeasty ears for years when I was feeding ground
raw meat with veggies. When I switched to prey model and removed the
veggies, his ears finally cleared up. He is still sensitive to
grains/starches/veggies. I don't know if greens only would be a
problem as I usually added some other stuff, too--carrots, cucumbers,
etc.

There are other factors, too. You might want to search the archives
here an on rawchat for "ears" or "yeast." We have been discussing
this over on rawchat recently.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "thebestformyboys" <llb6984@...>
wrote:
>
> Also is there anything I can do with Logan's diet to inhibit the
growth
> of yeast?
>
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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10a. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:49 pm ((PST))

When I fed my dog kibble his saliva brought me out in bumps and a really itchy, stingy hot rash, since feeding him raw meat and bones this has almost gone, when it does happen (rarely) he has usually had commercial training treats, chew...
I now try to stick mainly to natural treats such as dried liver, pigs ears, tripe sticks....

Natalie

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Messages in this topic (14)
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11a. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 2:08 pm ((PST))

Laurie,

Carbohydrates feed yeast, so no yogurt...besides, it will have no probiotic
benefit in a carnivore's system. If you need probiotics, best to stick with
a commercial product which should contain several bacteria rather than just
acidophilus.

It isn't unusual for holistic vets to recommend veggies...I just wonder what
they think is available only in veggies that can't be found in their species
appropriate foods???? While green veggies may not present a problem in a
yeasty dog, anything with sugar, starches...any carbs...are going to be
problematic.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "thebestformyboys" <llb6984@comcast.net>

We
discussed yogurt. I had been feeding yogurt but did seem to help that
much, and I really don't want to have to buy that unless necessary.
Other med was Thymex dietary supplement (bovine thymus cytosol
extract). She said by the time the bottles were gone his ears should be
looking pretty good. And I may or may not have to continue with a
probiotic with this dog due to the hot humid climate we live in in
Florida, and his floppy ears that stay moist are a great place for
yeast to florish. So....

My question: She almost insists after hearing what we feed (she is 100%
pro raw--tries to convert all patients to raw) that we add Green Leafy
Veggies! She kinda seems pro veggie for all veggies ,but when I balked
at veggies (not so much green leafy but other veggies) she insists
they "NEED" what they will get out of green leafy veggies. I would like
the experience of those on this list and their thoughts on this.

Messages in this topic (4)
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11b. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:06 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "thebestformyboys" <llb6984@...>
wrote:
>
> I'd found this 100 % holistic vet 1 hr. 15 min. away from us.

There are no requirements for a vet to call herself "holistic". Any
vet can call themselves such. The word "holistic" in this context
means nothing.

> Gave me two things to give him: iFlora
> acidophilus. Said he had to have this to get yeast under control.

She's full of it. Acidophilus is a probiotic. It supposedly aids
digestion and has no connecton to yeast infection in the ears. I
have serious doubts about it having any effect on dogs at all.

> We discussed yogurt. I had been feeding yogurt but did seem to
> help that much, and I really don't want to have to buy that
> unless necessary.

Yogurt does not have the effects on dogs that it does on humans.
It's a useless item to give to dogs.

> Other med was Thymex dietary supplement (bovine thymus cytosol
> extract). She said by the time the bottles were gone his
> ears should be looking pretty good.

I don't know anything about Thymex and can't comment on it.

> And I may or may not have to continue with a
> probiotic with this dog due to the hot humid climate we live in in
> Florida, and his floppy ears that stay moist are a great place for
> yeast to florish. So....

I agree with her that diet has nothing to do with your dogs
problems. I don't know why she is prescribing probiotics when she
admits that its humdity caused. OH! Yes I do. I bet you bought
the probiotics from her. Thats why she recommended them.

> but when I balked
> at veggies (not so much green leafy but other veggies) she insists
> they "NEED" what they will get out of green leafy veggies.

She's full of it again. :) There are no requirements in any veggie
that a dog needs for anything. IF there were, a dog would be able
to eat and digest them on their own and we know that doesn't happen.

> Also is there anything I can do with Logan's diet to inhibit
> the growth of yeast?

A few drops of alcohol or peroxide in each ear a few times a week
particularly just after swimming in water.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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12.1. Re: worried
Posted by: "Lynda McLellan" lyndam950@telus.net lyndam22
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:06 pm ((PST))

You might let your husband go out and poke at the poop and find small pieces of softened bone left and not much else. : ) Lynda

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Messages in this topic (37)
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13a. Re: Pork ear
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:07 pm ((PST))

>When i have puppies i find an asian grocery store and get a pig face mask for the pup to
chew, but that is purely for chewing and keeping the pup busy, not a meal, and
not for nutritional value.

Hi,Catherine. I have never heard of pig face mask...what isit like?? I cannot imagine what it is like.

When I started feeding pork to palette on round one,I have gave a pig ear. She was more like playing with it liketossing into air and catch it,rather than actual eating.Shedidate andfinish it off but not like real engaging to eat. It was along with real pork meat though.

So,I was thinking if the ear is good for joint aswell,I feed more frequent but,I guess it is not much of help from your understanding point of view??

I probably then rely on chicken feet or treachea etc..

thank you for response.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (9)
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14. Hello there everyone hoping for some advice to a newby
Posted by: "persia_elvis" persia_elvis@yahoo.co.uk persia_elvis
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:07 pm ((PST))

Well first all hello everyone not sure we're everyone is but I'm in
Leeds, UK and have one female Lab (5yrs) and one male rottie (13mths).

I've started on the raw diet, bit by bit, I've done my homework and
read books but no doubt can still learn alot.

Anyway i have problems with my two eating chicken wings, they will not
touch raw chicken at all, I've tried cutting breast up into little
peices to get them started but they won't touch it. When i tried the
wings they just looked at me as if i was mad. The diet was going so
well until i hit this stumbling block.

Can anyone advise me how to get them to eat the wings or is there
something else i can feed them? They love bones including ribs but
just not the wings, can't find any necks anywhere as i've read these
are a good starting point.

Many thanks

Messages in this topic (1)
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15. beef, pork and lamb...
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:07 pm ((PST))

I've been considering simplifying my dog's diet to beef, pork and
lamb. These are the 3 protein sources she does best on, as well as
eggs. Does anyone else feed exclusively 3 sources? Are these 3 sources
good enough? I was thinking about feeding heart more often as a muscle
meat, too. My dog doesn't do well on poultry, and the other 3 options
I can still buy for cheap. Heart is also cheaper and leaner than the
muscle meats I've been buying, too. So would there be a problem if I
just substituted heart as a muscle meat?

-Liz

Messages in this topic (1)
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16a. Re: Portion sizes for a 40 pounder
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:08 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "k9_smiley" <k9_smiley@...> wrote:

> For that matter, how does one start introducing a dog to the concept
> of Big Meals, without starving her into desperation?

Hi Alison,
The best way to start on big meals is to, for the sake of math we'll
use 1 pound, feed a heavy pound on one day followed by a
proportionately lighter pound the next. Gradually feed more one day
and less the next. Feed at random times, if possible. Every now and
again throw in a regular size meal. As long as you don't get loose
stools, keep upping the amount until you are feeding 2lbs one day and
resting the next. Your dog should now be prepared for the big feast.
To me, that means a bigger size hunk of something, not lots of little
pieces, that you are fairly certain your dog won't finish. Let her
eat till she stops eating. I am sorry but i am not sure what you mean
by starve into desperation. Does your dog like pork? Is this the
first thing that you offered her that was big or did it have skin on
it? If you meant that she didn't eat as much as you expected her to,
that is ok, too. What is a lot of food for my jindo, is not a lot of
food for me lab. They both eat till they are full, but my lab, though
she weighs less, eats more at the initial presentation of a big meal
than my jindo dog does. My aussie/bc eats about as much as my jindo
in proportion to her size. Even then, what is big also varies from
meal to meal regardless of the dog. KathyM

Messages in this topic (2)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12462

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Pork?
From: jordan_spiva
1b. Re: Pork?
From: Casey Post
1c. Re: Pork?
From: costrowski75
1d. Re: Pork?
From: Sheila0344@aol.com

2a. Re: Unsure of qauntities
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: Unsure of qauntities
From: Robert Ekendahl

3a. Honey?
From: Debi C
3b. Re: Honey?
From: Casey Post

4a. Re: Pork? / wild hog
From: boswellrt@aol.com
4b. Re: Pork? / wild hog
From: scarebetty
4c. Re: Pork? / wild hog
From: carnesbill
4d. Re: Pork? / wild hog
From: Donna Forrester

5a. Feeding Routine
From: scottginapeckford
5b. Re: Feeding Routine
From: Chia
5c. Re: Feeding Routine
From: Andrea
5d. Re: Feeding Routine
From: Sandee Lee

6a. Re: Chicken issues???
From: dario
6b. Re: Chicken issues???
From: costrowski75
6c. Re: Chicken issues???
From: carnesbill
6d. Re: Chicken issues???
From: Sandee Lee

7a. raw food ordering in Canada
From: Tracey WAGC
7b. Re: raw food ordering in Canada
From: Vivienne Swarbreck

8a. Re: Allergies?
From: Cindy Wells

9a. Re: loose stools/really need some feedback
From: Andrea

10. Recent Vet Visit
From: thebestformyboys

Messages
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1a. Pork?
Posted by: "jordan_spiva" jordan_spiva@yahoo.com jordan_spiva
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 7:03 am ((PST))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.

The website I order from (Creston Valley Meats) Now sells 25lb boxes of meaty pork bones
for .50 cents.It's a great deal and i would like to know if my dog will benefit from these. My
vet told me raw pork has a lot of fat on it and should only be fed as a snack. What are your
opinions.?

Messages in this topic (22)
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1b. Re: Pork?
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 7:36 am ((PST))

> The website I order from (Creston Valley Meats) Now sells 25lb boxes of
> meaty pork bones
> for .50 cents.It's a great deal and i would like to know if my dog will
> benefit from these. My
> vet told me raw pork has a lot of fat on it and should only be fed as a
> snack. What are your
> opinions.?

Pork is a lovely red meat. But it's been my experience that anything
labeled "bones" is NOT worth my money or time.

Casey

Messages in this topic (22)
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1c. Re: Pork?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 7:41 am ((PST))

"jordan_spiva" <jordan_spiva@...> wrote:
>> The website I order from (Creston Valley Meats) Now sells 25lb
boxes of meaty pork bones
> for .50 cents.It's a great deal and i would like to know if my dog
will benefit from these.
*****
I cannot see any benefit for your dog from these bones.

Simon is not known for his generously meaty bones. In fact, Simon
does not sell meaty bones. He sells bones that should be given away
(if not thrown away) and whatever meat is left on them does not
constitute meaty.

I can't imagine why you'd want to buy bare naked bones for fitty cent
a pound when for not much more than that you can buy pork shoulder
roasts and feed them as incomparably meaty bones or trim off much of
the meat for several meatymeat meals and one very nice meaty bone.

Your dog does not need any bare naked bones (not pork, not beef, not
emu, not ostrich) in its diet. Feed meaty bones, feed body parts
with some bone in them. That bare pork bones are edible does not
justify their use.

Simon does offer some good product. You can do better for your dog
than Simon's bones. You should consider other--meatier--options when
you order from him.

My
> vet told me raw pork has a lot of fat on it and should only be fed
as a snack. What are your
> opinions.?
*****
Your vet is right, there's a lot of fat on raw pork. This is pretty
much a "yeah, and your point is?" issue. If your dog is otherwise
healthy and if you introduce fatty pork (any fatty food) in
conservative amounts your dog will thrive on the meat and the fat.

Pork is a high quality, easily digested, and affordable red meat.
You can trim the subQ fat if you want to, but it would be a mistake
to avoid pork as a menu option because your vet says there's a lot of
fat on it.

A dog has but two building blocks in its nutritional pyramid: protein
and fat. It can hardly do well without both.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (22)
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1d. Re: Pork?
Posted by: "Sheila0344@aol.com" Sheila0344@aol.com s_mayo2002
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 8:08 am ((PST))

FWIW I feed mine pork necks about once a week.
Sheila

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (22)
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2a. Re: Unsure of qauntities
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 8:00 am ((PST))

"bearspicnic2000" <bearspicnic2000@...> wrote:
>
> Hi my name is Kerry from New Zealand. I have a 6mnth old Golden
Ret.
> I wanted some help with qauntities and ideas to start with.
*****
Welcome, Kerry. You'll find that your golden pup will thrive on a
good raw diet. In the US at least, there are lots of things wrong
with goldens these days; providing a healthy lifestyle (which
includes feeding healthy appropriate food) is so very important.

I recommend you join Yahoogroups if you have not already done so in
order to browse the list message archives. By typing appropriate key
words into the search box you'll get dozens of answers to your
questions. Instructions for linking to Yahoogroups are at the bottom
of every rawfeeding email you receive.

Also check out

http://rawfed.com
http://rawfeddogs.net
htto://www.rawlearning.com

Certainly feel free to post specific questions to the list, but
please consider doing some basic homework first.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: Unsure of qauntities
Posted by: "Robert Ekendahl" robert@ekendahl.org ekendahl
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 8:08 am ((PST))

Kerry,

You should feed her 2-3% of ideal adult weight. I would start with 2%
and see how it goes. According to the american kennel club
(http://www.akc.org/breeds/golden_retriever/index.cfm) an adult golden
bitch should be 55-65 lbs or 25-30 kg. Assuming you would want her on
the lean side I would start with 2% of 25kg or 500 grams/day of meat
(and bones). That 500 grams should, over time be 80% meat, 10% bones and
10% organs, but for now stick with meat and bones until her stomach is
used to raw meat (i.e no loose stools for some time).

The easiest is to start her on a single protein source for a couple of
weeks until she gets used to it. Being in New Zeeland I would consider
lamb, and my understanding is that most lamb is pasture fed in New
Zeeland (is that true?) which would be great for the omega 3 fatty acids.

Otherwise a lot of people start with chicken, something like a quarter
chicken/day (or whatever 500 grams is). I use Bill Carnes site as a good
helper -> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

I've been doing it for less then a week for my two german shepherds and
my cat and they love it. They have been constipated most of the week,
but this morning had loose stool, probably because I got impatient and
fed them some pork which they wheren't used to.

Good luck!

/Robert Ekendahl

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Honey?
Posted by: "Debi C" dcole6@satx.rr.com scarlet_debi
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 8:07 am ((PST))

Any thoughts on honey? It is a naturally occuring substance and bears,
racoons and coyotes will find it and eat it. Maybe for energy and
weight gain? My JRT got on the coffee table, pulled the plastic lid
off and cleaned out a bowl of it. No ill effects so far.

Debi, 2 Jacks and an App

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Honey?
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 9:14 am ((PST))

> Any thoughts on honey? It is a naturally occuring substance and bears,
> racoons and coyotes will find it and eat it. Maybe for energy and
> weight gain?

I avoid honey because my dog is prone to yeast overgrowth. Nothing like all
that sugar to fuel stinky, itchy ears and feet!

Casey

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Pork? / wild hog
Posted by: "boswellrt@aol.com" boswellrt@aol.com boswellsbordercollies
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 8:31 am ((PST))

When you feed pork is it store bought, raised pork or does anybody feed wild
hog?
Usually my husbands kills many wild hogs every year they are overrunning
things out here in the woods. We don't eat pork so it all goes to his relatives
but it would be nice to be able to feed it to the dogs.

Trish
_G-Force Border Collies_ (http://www.gforcebordercollies.com/)

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: Pork? / wild hog
Posted by: "scarebetty" scarebetty@yahoo.com scarebetty
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 10:35 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, boswellrt@... wrote:
>
> When you feed pork is it store bought, raised pork or does anybody
feed wild
> hog?
> Usually my husbands kills many wild hogs every year they are
overrunning
> things out here in the woods. We don't eat pork so it all goes to
his relatives
> but it would be nice to be able to feed it to the dogs.
>
>
> Trish
> _G-Force Border Collies_ (http://www.gforcebordercollies.com/)
>
>
>
>
> I feed store bought pork altho Lucy doesnt like it real well, she
does eat it. We had an occasion to feed wild pig, so I drove 60 miles
to get it. My husband skinned it and we 'butchered it' and I do mean
butchered!! Anyway, Lucy took the parts that we gave her and buried
them. I had never seen her bury anything! Later on, I gave her a ham
and she would pick it up, but not eat it. I tried searing it,
flavoring it some-all kinds of things. She just would not eat it. My
kids and their dogs were out here the next weekend and out of 6 dogs,
only 1 would eat it. I have read where a lot of dogs wont eat it,
dont know why. If I were you, I would certainly try to feed it and if
your dog likes it, go ahead. Some would say to freeze it first, but
my dogs are ranch dogs and they tend to bring up all kinds of stuff,
so I didnt worry about freezing it. I dont freeze any thing that they
might catch and eat in the wild.

Betty

Messages in this topic (4)
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4c. Re: Pork? / wild hog
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 10:59 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, boswellrt@... wrote:
>
> When you feed pork is it store bought, raised pork or does
> anybody feed wild hog?

I don't feed wild hog but I would if I had access to it. Freeze it
for a few weeks and it's good to go. :) :) :) That will make a BIG
dent in your feeding bill.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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4d. Re: Pork? / wild hog
Posted by: "Donna Forrester" birdiegirl67@comcast.net birdiegirl67
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 12:13 pm ((PST))

My BF just killed a wild sow hog, over 300 pounds live weight. Out
freezer is stocked, and everything we didn't keep for ourselves will go
to the animals- my 4 dogs and 6 cats. They love the heart especially!
Right now Girlie, one of my Anatolian Shepherds, is "homesteading" the
head.......she's been out there protecting it from everyone else for a
few days now!

We get quite a crowd at butchering time!
Wild hog is a great source of food for your pets.
Donna

Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Feeding Routine
Posted by: "scottginapeckford" scottginapeckford@yahoo.com scottginapeckford
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 8:32 am ((PST))

Hi All,

We have been raw feeding our 15 month old Spanish Water Dog for
about 3-4 months and she is doing incredibly well with the diet. She
eats nearly everything... chicken, pork, some beef, organs, eggs,
fish, and sparse amounts of vegetables. Ocassionally we give her a
little fish oil, vitamine E and kelp powder. Again, she is doing
very well.

We live in Canada and often the outside temps is deep freezing
cold. We are finding that eating raw inside is very messy. We place
her bowl on newspaper but she seems to enjoy her raw
boney/meaty/bloody food outside of her dish, creating a bloody (from
extreme red meats such as liver, hearts, etc...) mess aroung the
dish area.

What's your feeding routine? Where/how do you feed your dogs?

Our "problem" is about to be magnified. We are getting two moe SWD
pups next week.

Scott

Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: Feeding Routine
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 8:38 am ((PST))

##### good, as long as veggies are SPARSE... completely unnecessary as
is kelp and vitamin e. No point giving her something that has no benefit,
right?

#### I live in Canada also but I am blessed that it is the
WestCoast..below freezing is VERY rare...when it is, do I ever scowl. ;-))

Forget a bowl, or newspaper..yuck, who wants to ingest ink. Feed either
on a plastic tablecloth (camping section at Wal-Mart)... OR, just on tile or
lino. Easy clean up with vinegar and a paper towel. Bowl are for water...
:-))

What's your feeding routine? Where/how do you feed your dogs?

### when it's a quick meal, on the tile in corner of my kitchen. When it
is a longer duration meal, the plastic tablecloth in my library.

Our "problem" is about to be magnified. We are getting two moe SWD
pups next week.

#### oh what fun! Remember, question the vaccine protocols presented by
all. Best to do none for the supreme health of your beautiful carnivores.
OT for here though, the other list on yahoo addresses ALL of this.

Chia & Ricco

http://www.truthaboutvaccines.org

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Messages in this topic (4)
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5c. Re: Feeding Routine
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 10:51 am ((PST))

My dogs get fed on their dog beds or on a large towel. They clean their area quite well after
they are finished eating. Just plop the food down on the towel, no dish needed, and if you
want you can wash the towel after the meal. You could also feed on a vinyl tablecloth that
can be wiped down after meals.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "scottginapeckford" <scottginapeckford@...> wrote:

> We are finding that eating raw inside is very messy. We place
> her bowl on newspaper but she seems to enjoy her raw
> boney/meaty/bloody food outside of her dish, creating a bloody (from
> extreme red meats such as liver, hearts, etc...) mess aroung the
> dish area.

Messages in this topic (4)
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5d. Re: Feeding Routine
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 11:44 am ((PST))

I feed the Danes on blankets, throw them in the wash once in a while. Most
raw food will not be eaten from a bowl! :) I use them to transport bloody
food from kitchen to eating spot but they quickly remove the food, dump it
on the blanket and proceed to eat!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "scottginapeckford" <scottginapeckford@yahoo.com>

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: Chicken issues???
Posted by: "dario" nanterossi@yahoo.co.uk nanterossi
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 8:32 am ((PST))

I was going to double the dose of the Advocate...should I not?

IS what I feed him causing his itchy skin?

I give chicken carcasses, beef shank, lamb shank, pork, some tripe, hearts and some liver.

Thinking of some fish soon.

MAny thanks

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Most likely not an allergy. It does sound a little like mange, but also
> could be the result of Advocate....nasty ingredients with lots of side
> effects.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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6b. Re: Chicken issues???
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 8:50 am ((PST))

ADMIN ADMIN ADMIN ADMIN ADMIN ADMIN ADMIN ADMIN ADMIN

If this thread sticks to chicken as a potential cause of itching it is
welcome on the rawfeeding list. If it changes to a dicussion about
Advocate it should be moved promptly to RawChat. Thanks.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (8)
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6c. Re: Chicken issues???
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 10:59 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dario" <nanterossi@...> wrote:
>
> I give chicken carcasses, beef shank, lamb shank, pork, some
> tripe, hearts and some liver.

I seriously doubt these items are causing your problem. I suspect
it's something else you are giving him OR an environmental
allergy/irritant.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

6d. Re: Chicken issues???
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 11:25 am ((PST))

I doubt it has anything to do with food. Of course, we can't see or
diagnose your dog, but it does sound like mange in which case you just need
to build up his immune system with good food, fresh water, lots of fun and
love. :) Unless there is a lot of meat on those shanks, it may be
worthwhile adding more meat and fat. You could also try some fish or salmon
oil....good for skin!

Vaccinations and harmful drugs are damaging to the immune system...avoid
them if at all possible. If you want to discuss this further, go over to
the Rawchat group for topics not food related!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/

Sandee & the Dane Gang

----- Original Message -----
From: "dario" <nanterossi@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 8:29 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Chicken issues???

I was going to double the dose of the Advocate...should I not?

IS what I feed him causing his itchy skin?

I give chicken carcasses, beef shank, lamb shank, pork, some tripe, hearts
and some liver.

Thinking of some fish soon.

Messages in this topic (8)
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________________________________________________________________________

7a. raw food ordering in Canada
Posted by: "Tracey WAGC" wagc@sasktel.net frustrated_tracey
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 9:31 am ((PST))

Does anyone know if there is a raw food supplier in Canada for things like ground tripe, trachea, tripe/organ blend, gullets, ground pancreas? If there isn't is there enough raw feeders in canada to warrant one, do you think?

tracey

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: raw food ordering in Canada
Posted by: "Vivienne Swarbreck" sienna_seiko@yahoo.ca sienna_seiko
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 12:14 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Tracey WAGC <wagc@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if there is a raw food supplier in Canada
Hi Tracey,
I get frozen tripe from Paws and Claws, or Urban Carnivore which you
can get from Global Pet Shops, or Ren's in Ontario. Paws and Claws
also has organ meat blends. They are expensive...but worth it to me.
You could also ask a local butcher what they do with the offal that
they produce. I used to get an offal blend from a butcher, but
regulations in Canada forbid butchers from handling it now, so they
sell it off to a second party. You might be able to find such a
supplier in your area.
Vivienne
>
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: Allergies?
Posted by: "Cindy Wells" cwells5@charter.net cwnsc
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 10:59 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Ania Tysarczyk" <AniaJRT@...>
wrote:
>
> My dogs allergies did not completely disappear on raw, but it took
> about 3 or 4 months on raw before I saw most of the inprovement I
was
> going to see in her on raw. It was a lot of improvement. I then
got
> her homeopathic treatment so she improved more from there, but I
think
> it was the treatment, not the raw from then on.
>
> Ania
>

My golden has both skin and food allergies. Switched to raw 5 mos
ago and he is doing much better. I think it will take some time to
clear up but everyone comments on how soft and shiny his coat is. I
also think the daily brushing to loosen the dander has helped. Sam
has long hair and sheds constantly.

Cindy

Messages in this topic (10)
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9a. Re: loose stools/really need some feedback
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 11:06 am ((PST))

It doesn't seem too unusual for the dogs to have loose stools if they've had several new
proteins in a couple of weeks in addition to more meat than they used to get. If the stools
are too loose cut back on the variety a bit. My dogs and I aren't really bothered by loose
stools from new meats so we tend to keep trucking until things settle out.

> In general, I find that I do need to give Foxy just a little more
> bone than I was hoping...So now I will feed meaty meat for most meals
> but about three times a week I do give him some back or thigh bone
> along with his meat.

If you are finding that he needs more bone than you expected it might be a better idea to
give him bone in foods all the time for now. Feeding meaty meat for some meals and
adding bone to others seems like you'll end up with some puddin poos and some regular
ones.

> I had to scissor it and eventually (after 30 min.) I
> finally had to cut reamaing meat off bone. He finally came back and
> ate it...but otherwise gets frustrated I think.

It is probably more that he doesn't feel like doing the work himself. Ripping and tearing
food is an important thing for their dental health, let Pepper work things out on his own.
Maybe you could start with softer bones like rib in breasts and go from there.

> I have yet to add organ meat but feel rushed to do so as they have
> been eating raw for 1+months.

Good, don't worry about adding organs just yet. When you get the loose stools under
control you can go back to the idea. No rush. When you get around to it just add tiny bits
at first - like the size of a thumbnail.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (3)
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10. Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "thebestformyboys" llb6984@comcast.net thebestformyboys
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 12:14 pm ((PST))

Quick background: Have 2-3.5 year old golden retrievers. Been eating
raw from 1 year old. First diet had meat, liver, grains, yogurt,
veggies etc. Better than kibble but had problems. Switched to this list
in Sept. 07 Now feeding prey model. Dogs have improved. Better breath,
teeth (much improved), stools, and above all happiness.

Took Logan to the vet he has had chronic ear problems from 8 weeks old.
I'd found this 100 % holistic vet 1 hr. 15 min. away from us. She has
seen our three cats and we really liked her. It was time I got some
real help with Logan's ears, so we went today. He has a yeast
infection. She injected him with a homeopathic med. behind ears, back
of neck, and on right front leg. Gave me two things to give him: iFlora
acidophilus. Said he had to have this to get yeast under control. We
discussed yogurt. I had been feeding yogurt but did seem to help that
much, and I really don't want to have to buy that unless necessary.
Other med was Thymex dietary supplement (bovine thymus cytosol
extract). She said by the time the bottles were gone his ears should be
looking pretty good. And I may or may not have to continue with a
probiotic with this dog due to the hot humid climate we live in in
Florida, and his floppy ears that stay moist are a great place for
yeast to florish. So....

Also is there anything I can do with Logan's diet to inhibit the growth
of yeast?

Laurie
Port St. Lucie, FL
Golden brothers Logan and Cooper
and their 3 kitties: Spencer, Madison and Jasmine

Messages in this topic (1)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12461

There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: worried
From: scarebetty
1.2. Re: worried
From: Jamie Dolan
1.3. Re: worried
From: Erika

2a. Re: Cost Of Raw Feeding
From: bluegracepwd
2b. Re: Cost Of Raw Feeding
From: A.
2c. Re: Cost Of Raw Feeding
From: Heather
2d. Cost Of Raw Feeding
From: Erika
2e. Re: Cost Of Raw Feeding
From: Giselle

3a. Varying views
From: muirghealfinne
3b. Re: Varying views/cold turkey switch?
From: Laurie Swanson
3c. Re: Varying views
From: costrowski75

4a. I got TONS of free meat!!
From: A.

5. Unsure of qauntities
From: bearspicnic2000

6a. First day on raw... tell me if I did it right?
From: certaintragedies
6b. Re: First day on raw... tell me if I did it right?
From: Laurie Swanson
6c. Re: First day on raw... tell me if I did it right?
From: certaintragedies

7a. Re: Raw newbie, and a quick introduction!
From: Giselle

8. Portion sizes for a 40 pounder
From: k9_smiley

9a. Re: Veg... It seems I;m preaching to the deaf sometimes!
From: mathamgri

10a. loose stools/really need some feedback
From: marge
10b. Re: loose stools/really need some feedback
From: Eddie Scholten

11. New to raw, 8mo puppy gulping
From: cindicarter1966

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1.1. Re: worried
Posted by: "scarebetty" scarebetty@yahoo.com scarebetty
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:01 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lauriewolfert" <lauriewolfert@...>
wrote:
>
> EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.
>
> Betty,
> I understand your concern and have the same question, as my husband
> and I are only about a week and a half into raw feeding. We have two
> small dogs (15lbs) and gave them large chicken legs tonight for the
> first time and they left behind several 1/2 - 1 inch shards of bone
> that they didn't eat. My husband ready to give it all up because he
> is concerned that the bones they DID eat will harm them. Can someone
> else give us some peace of mind? The dog falling and dying doesn't
> really address our question>
> >
>
>

Laurie,
I understand that there is a certain amount of fear in feeding raw.
My dog left behind shards and threw up shards. But, that was when she
first started raw. She has no problem now. One time she threw up
just one little shard. I have no idea why she couldnt digest it, when
she digested all of the rest of the bone in that meal!! Anyway, dont
let your fears stop you from doing what is undoubtly the best thing
that you can do for your dogs. Sandee's reply to you concerning all
10,000 people that are on this list have not lost a dog to a
perforated stomach or intestine is what I was looking for. Bill's
response also was what I was looking for in that there would be some
symptoms.
Go forward with the raw feeding, overcome your fears and if you get
scared, come to this group and they will help you.
Betty
Go forward with your prey model feeding
>

Messages in this topic (36)
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1.2. Re: worried
Posted by: "Jamie Dolan" jamiedolan@gmail.com jamiedolan
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:18 pm ((PST))

> I understand your concern and have the same question, as my husband
> and I are only about a week and a half into raw feeding. We have two
> small dogs (15lbs) and gave them large chicken legs tonight for the
> first time and they left behind several 1/2 - 1 inch shards of bone
> that they didn't eat. My husband ready to give it all up because he
> is concerned that the bones they DID eat will harm them. Can someone
> else give us some peace of mind? The dog falling and dying doesn't
> really address our question>

AKIVA 4 YEARS OLD 19 POUNDS SHIH TZU

VASCO DA GAMA 3 YEARS OLD 15 POUNDS SHIH TZU

BAE BAE 2 YEAR OLD 13 POUND SHIH TZU

HERA 8 MONTH OLD 6 POUNDS SHIH TZU

Dinner tonight WHOLE chicken weight 4 pounds, cut up into large pieces
and fed to the dogs. They chew up all the bones, sometime splinters
of bones are left around the house, I usally just pick up the little
pieces and throw them away, as they dogs have little intrest in bones
that don't have meat on them. Oh yea, they ate about half a pound of
pork too. They ate about 9% of there body weight tonight. A very
heavy meal. They are used to eating like that tough, I would not do
that to a dog that is not used to eating that way. Now they wont care
if I don't feed them for several days. They do not eat on any type of
schuedle what so ever, none. They might get food now, they might get
some breakfast at 6am tommrow, they might not eat till tuesday. (thats
a little long for no meal at all, monday would proboly be the longest
without food, after the meal tonight)

If I hand any concern what so ever about the safety of the bones I
grind it up for them, I have the grinder in the next room. They like
the bones and the bones help clean there teeth and make there meals
intresting.

I can send you photos and videos of my beautiful long haired (some in
partial - long show coats) chewing away on whole chickens! They even
EAT WHOLE FEATHERED CHICKENS! They eat the feet, the head, the beaks!
They eat pork, they chew up large ham roasts. They chew through
large beef roasts, lamb, WHOLE FISH, etc. NO problems! I always feed
large enough peices for there size so they don't choke. The dogs that
choke on raw bones are the dogs that are given inapproiatly sized
bones, i.e. chicken necks. A chicken neck alone is too small for
almost all dogs. I MIGHT give a large chicken neck to my 6 pound dog.
A chicken neck attacked to a head and a chicken body is fine for any
size dog.

I used to worry too. Now I stopped worrying and my dogs are just
happy and can be.

Sorry for the extra animation in my e-mail today, too much caffine.

Jamie

Messages in this topic (36)
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1.3. Re: worried
Posted by: "Erika" Erika@redangelbordeaux.com redangelbordeaux
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:47 pm ((PST))

Hi Betty,

Granted my dogs are much larger than yours and when eating a let quarter it's usually 6-7 good chomps and it's down the hatch but when I changed everyone over I also had a small 12 week old pup with me. I as well was nervous about the bones so I did a little "disecting" Ha, Grose I know but I'm very cautious about my "kids"

For about the first 2 weeks there was a few cases of loose stools and I did find the occasional bone in the poops but everything was still mooving through and I hade faith. About week 3 in hardly ever found bone. Once they were on RAW for one month absolutly no undigested bone to be found at all, just powder. I was feeding more than the recamended amount of bone at first because I had some digestive isues before begining the RAW feeding and was attempting to firm things up with adding more bone.

It is pretty amazing if you ever look closley when you get a chance (and you will) at the little bone bits in the Boney Bile Vomit. It's got tons of tiney holes in it and you can see how it is just melting away and being fully digested! They will get over the BBV as well, I had it almost every day in the beginning but hardly at all now. If you feed outside try to keep them out of the dirt and grass, it can add irritation to there tummy when beginning. The only time they hork up gunk after a meal now is if they had a large meal in the yard and ate a bunch of "other stuff" that was stuck to the meat. So it's a bunch of slime, grass and small twigs, UCK!

Good luck,
Erika

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Messages in this topic (36)
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2a. Re: Cost Of Raw Feeding
Posted by: "bluegracepwd" janea@tpg.com.au bluegracepwd
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:05 pm ((PST))

Hi Tammy,

yesterday my local knackery delived 5 goats. They cost me $55 in
total. Not sure how much a goat weighs, but the heaviest was over
25kg. It's actually working out cheaper for me to get sheep and goat
than it is to get chicken at the moment.

Within 2 hours of the goats being culled, they were in my freezer. I
did have to chop them up. I'm a bit handy with the axe these days.

I would be spending less than $30 per dog per month at the moment to
feed them. And the average weight of my dogs is about 23 kg each.

I also managed to buy an ex icecream freezer this week for $150. It
could easily manage to fit 8 goats in it.

cheers

Jane

Messages in this topic (8)
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2b. Re: Cost Of Raw Feeding
Posted by: "A." ols@charter.net cesare.1920
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:26 pm ((PST))

Make sure to post on www.craigslist.com too.

Also, there isn't much difference in getting meat from a freezer or
scraps from a butcher so I would take it wherever you can get it :)

~Amanda

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2c. Re: Cost Of Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Heather" newbeginnings06@gmail.com malignstar
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:27 pm ((PST))

You'll definately get more comfortable handling meats. It wasn't until
about 2 mos ago I was able to handle liver without being grossed out
(been feeding raw 1.5 years) but I still find it difficult to handle
and cut up a set of beef lungs. I'm a vegetarian as well and I
actually LOVE to grocery shop for the kids. It's my favorite activity
because I feel so proud when I get a deal on something (my most recent
at Walmart: lamb for 1.78/lb and a 1 lb package of chicken
gizzards/hearts for .83c about to go bad). I love seeking out new
meats too and cannot wait to hit the Asian market 45 mins away. I've
been trying to find raw sardines, kidney. Some goat. I can normally
feed my dog on $20/mo and my cat around $15 because she gets whole
prey- which is a bit pricier than if I just fed her turkey, chicken
and pork.

Heather

Messages in this topic (8)
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2d. Cost Of Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Erika" Erika@redangelbordeaux.com redangelbordeaux
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:49 pm ((PST))

I am hitting a slim $$ time myself and have fortunatly figured out how to stretch the food bill pretty good! I have a great source for Beef Heart and Turkey neck so these are my main staple for now, I throw in some pork and lamb every couple of days or so. The main thing is to not rely to much on chicken. I don't even stock it in my freezer now unless I can find it for less than .50 a lb and it is a part larger than a leg quarter (you can get 10lb bag of chk leg quarters at walmart for under $5 every day) I don't stock it any more because it's to easy to reach for instead of the good heart and to much bone for regular feeding.
Don't stock up on things that you know for certain are always going to be available. Save the space in your freezer for the super deals when they come up. I purchased about 100lb of pork shoulder with bone in last month for only .69 a lb, super cheap! Would have purchased tons more if I had only had the freezer space :( Now I only have 4 shoulders left and I am waiting for that next great sale, lol! Look for restaurant supply houses, they are hard to find and most won't doo business with the general public but when you find one that will it's worth the work. You can always tell them that you are a Cateror (sp) and then if they ask you Cater to dogs haha.

Good luck, having 7 mastiffs here I know how the price per lb can affect your budget. Exotic meats are pretty much out of the question for me :( way to spendy even for Rabbit at just under $3 lb average, My kids eat about 15-20lb a day!

Happy New Year!
Erika

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Messages in this topic (8)
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2e. Re: Cost Of Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 9:30 pm ((PST))

Hi, Tammy!
Check out The Lis List for ideas;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/139618*

*Post #139618*
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

Hello everyone!
> I joined this group a few days ago and I have learned so much from all of
> you and have so much more to learn.
>

> <snip>
>
> How much do you all spend a month average? I am in a financial mess right
> now so I need to watch every penny. Any suggestions on how to do this
> frugally?
> <snip>
> Thank you in advance!
> Tammy
>
>
>
>

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3a. Varying views
Posted by: "muirghealfinne" muirghealfinne@yahoo.com muirghealfinne
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:17 pm ((PST))

Hi, my name is Nicole and I've finally made the decision to feed my
dog raw and need some help! I have a four year old field spaniel that
weighs thirty-five pounds. I don't know exactly how to go about
transitioning her. I've done some research and talked to some people
at pet stores and everyone is telling me varying things! I know there
will always be different opinions but some say to transition slowly by
combining kibble with raw and others say that you have to just switch
100% and that combining will make my dog sick. What have people
experienced with their own dogs???

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Varying views/cold turkey switch?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:45 pm ((PST))

Hi Nicole,

Both my dogs have gone from kibble one day to cooked meat the next and
then later from that to one day just all raw. Recently I switched my
newly adopted shelter dog and I fasted him for one day in between. I
haven't tried the other way of gradually transitioning and combining
the foods, but it makes sense to me that that would be more likely to
cause some digestive upset. It may not be a big deal, though. When I
give my dogs much cooked meat or starches (treats/bits of my food) near
a raw meat meal, they tend to get gas. What I've learned about
digestion says that different foods (especially higher water content
foods vs. drier foods) are digested at different rates. So
theoretically, if they're combined, either the moister foods (raw) are
held up in the system by the drier ones (kibble), causing fermentation
(gas), or the drier ones can get pushed thru more quickly than is
optimal (liquid stool, vomiting, diarrhea). Now, you may not see these
symptoms if you combine, and if you feel more comfortable trying the
gradual method of transitioning, that's fine. Whatever you need to do
to get you to the ultimate goal... And you can always change methods
as you go along if you want. I think lots of people have done it both
ways and ended up fine.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "muirghealfinne"
<muirghealfinne@...> wrote:

some say to transition slowly by
> combining kibble with raw and others say that you have to just switch
> 100% and that combining will make my dog sick.

Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. Re: Varying views
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:38 pm ((PST))

"muirghealfinne" <muirghealfinne@...> wrote:

I have a four year old field spaniel that
> weighs thirty-five pounds. I don't know exactly how to go about
> transitioning her.
*****
You transition her by adding raw meat to her kibble, by removing one of
her kibble meals and replacing it with a "RMB" and over some
unspecified amount of time you reduce the kibble and increase the raw
meat until you've stopped feeding kibble. That's how you transition a
dog to raw.

How you SHOULD do it is toss out the bag of kibble and feed your lovely
field spaniel (I do like them a lot!) some easily eaten and digested
hunk of raw something or other. I generally start adult dogs with skin
on, rib-in chicken breasts (or halves); other start with bonier chicken
parts and still others start with meat other than chicken. Regardless
of which meat protein and which body part you choose, dumping the
kibble and just doing it is the best way to get your dog moving towards
better health.

In the interests of science <snort> I have switched dogs to raw via
gradual transition using kibble and whole foods, via grinding
everything, and by cold turkey. The grinding was the clear loser: It
wasn't until I stopped the nonsense and gave the dog a leg quarter that
her loose stools stopped.

Neither the gradual transition nor cold turkey caused any digestive
distress that wasn't directly attributable to human error. So. Since
there is virtually no bottom line difference between gradual transition
and cold turkey, the question is WHY delay the process? For the
human? Be my guess. I suggest you get your dog off kibble as quickly
as you can.

Now. How long you take to get from Introductory Food to Protein
Variety is up to you. THAT transition has many options.

Some people stick firmly to one meat, one body part until they are
comfortable with the notion or have bought a freezer or have filled up
an existing one. Others move along as soon as the stools are to their
liking; others begin with one food but start adding additional meats
quite promptly; and still others just feed what they got and adjust as
they go along.

My guess is beginners might prefer starting with a single meat and and
a single body part. But the choice is yours, and you can change your
approach as often as you need to.

others say that you have to just switch
> 100% and that combining will make my dog sick.
*****
Your dog won't get sick. What will happen--if you feed too much too
soon which is probably the single biggest mistake beginners make--is
loose stools and other mild digestive upsets. This is not sick, it's a
natural response to excess. And you can avoid it or most of it by
feeding conservatively with limited foods and smaller meals and not
giving in to the urge to rush the buffet table.
Chris O

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4a. I got TONS of free meat!!
Posted by: "A." ols@charter.net cesare.1920
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:18 pm ((PST))

I wanted to thank everyone on here who posted ideas on how to get
free/cheap meat.

I went to my butchers and got 25 pounds of meat trimmings/scraps
along with "sawdust" scraps for $7.50!

(By the way, he said if I took the whole 400 pound barrell I could
have it for free. I am in the Truman Lake area of Missouri if anyone
wants to go in on that. I certainly have no room for 400 pounds lol)

I also put an ad on Craigslist and got an answer the first day. A
lady is an end of life caregiver and her client had lots of frezer
burned meats they were going to throw out. We met up with her
yesterday and she gave us the lot of it. I am so excited, there is
about $250-$300 worth of meat! Lots of fish too which is usually a
bit to expensive for me to buy much of.

Between both deals I will be feeding my Mastiffs for $7.50 for
awhile :)

~Amanda

Oh yeah, one question- the sawdust. It is just a bag of everything
including bone. Do I need to be careful how much of this I feed? I
don't really know how much of everything is in it, it may be a lot
of bone and I don't want to overdo it.

Messages in this topic (19)
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5. Unsure of qauntities
Posted by: "bearspicnic2000" bearspicnic2000@yahoo.com bearspicnic2000
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:45 pm ((PST))

Hi my name is Kerry from New Zealand. I have a 6mnth old Golden Ret.
I wanted some help with qauntities and ideas to start with. Any help
appreciated. She weighs 20kgs @ present. Kerry

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6a. First day on raw... tell me if I did it right?
Posted by: "certaintragedies" inaudibly@gmail.com certaintragedies
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:16 pm ((PST))

Today was Spunky's first day on raw. She's a 10 year old beagle. I fed
50 g of pork ribs and 200 g of chicken breast. The pork rib was thawed
in room temperature and the chicken breast was soaked in water in the
kitchen sink.

She ate it happily, we'll have to see how her stools come out or if
she throws anything up. Only problem was that she put it all over the
place when she was eating it...on the floor outdoors, then carried it
inside, put it on the floor...brought it to her bed...making me a
little worried about the gunk that could have gotten on it.

Then again, she is the iron-clad-gut type.

Anything wrong? I know I should have started out on 2 weeks of pure
chicken but we didn't have any chicken with bone.

-Melissa

Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. Re: First day on raw... tell me if I did it right?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 9:06 pm ((PST))

Sounds like you did fine. Not sure about the amounts--don't have time
to figure out the conversion of grams to pounds right now. I wouldn't
worry about her dragging her meat around from a health standpoint, but
if you want her to keep it in one place, it's quite easy to teach.
Just put down a mat, towel, blanket, vinyl tablecloth, shower curtain,
etc., and put her food on it. If she removes the food from the mat,
put it back on. You can add a word cue if you want. She will get the
idea pretty fast!

Laurie

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6c. Re: First day on raw... tell me if I did it right?
Posted by: "certaintragedies" inaudibly@gmail.com certaintragedies
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 12:58 am ((PST))

Thanks Laurie. I'm feeding a total of 250 g which is about 2% of the
body weight that we got when we took her to the vet about two months
ago. I don't mind her dragging the food around as long as she doesn't
catch anything nasty from it.

-Melissa

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7a. Re: Raw newbie, and a quick introduction!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:44 pm ((PST))

Hi, Jen!
Glad to see you made it over to the raw side! ^_^

Volume in Doom Nuggets (tm Carrie) and volume in raw meat 'n bone doesn't
correlate well. D.N. have a lot of unnecessary bulk, having lots of grains,
veggies and other additives, leading to big poops, because a lot of it is
indigestible and it goes to waste. Raw, being species appropriate, is so
much more bioavailable and less goes to waste. So, with raw, less is more,
so to speak.

Make sense?

So, you can start Moxie at any % you want, to begin with, even 4% - the
starting amount isn't as important as getting her started out raw.
4% of her ideal of 15 lbs = 9.6 oz
3.5% of 15 lbs = 8.4 oz
3% of 15 lbs = 7.2 oz
2.5% of 15 lbs = 6 oz
Pick a number, any number, just don't get to obsessive about it - the
guideline is "just a number" to start with, until you are comfortable with
feeding raw, and able to eyeball amounts and judge when to increase or
decrease what you're feeding.

Most raw feeders don't even weigh their dog's food, or their dogs, after a
few weeks or so of feeding raw. Its just somewhere to start.

One of the beauties of raw feeding is that you get to choose the menu and
adjust the amounts for your particular dog's individual needs, whatever that
is, at any specific point in time. Quoting %s and amounts to feed just gets
newbies off on the right foot, until they can run on their own. ; )

I'd start Moxie off on one meal a day, whatever you decide the amount to be,
unless after a couple days you see that there is fall out; i.e. digestive
upset.

I wouldn't try for a quick weight loss, either, slower is better for her
health and peace of mind. : )
Looking at her cute pics, I'd say she didn't need a diet, but thats me.
Active dogs have more muscle mass and may weigh more than inactive dogs, but
look leaner.

I'd eliminate treats entirely, at first. Manage her environment so that she
can't help herself to snacks, too. Child proof latches on cabinets and metal
containers with solid latching lids work great - keeping stuff in the
fridge, freezer and oven works, too ^_^

Give her bully sticks, or a couple beef or lamb ribs or pork neck bones to
keep her mouth and teeth occupied.

Keep her busy and tired, if possible - if she's tired, then she'll be less
likely to go hunting for stuff to hoover up and she'll burn more cals. Find
it and fetch games in the house can keep her mentally busy, so that she's
less likely to look for food.

Ideally, I'd move her from one meal a day to every other day, to Big Food
and no food days, so that she can experience being able to eat to satiety,
which helps a dog to learn to self regulate and relax - but that will happen
with time, maybe after several months.

For a 'how to' to start, check out this archived post;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*
TC and let us know about your progress!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Jan 4, 2008 3:21 PM, ekendahl <robert@ekendahl.org<robert%40ekendahl.org>>
> wrote:
> > > From: "SoldierGrrrl" <soldier.grrrl@...>
> > >
> > > Moxie should be at a healthy weight of about 15 lbs. If I feed her
> > > 2-3% of her body weight, that works about to about seven ounces a
> > > day. I'd probably round up to eight ounces
> >
> ##Not sure how you did your math. If I put "15 lbs * 3% to oz" into
> > google (yes, they have a smart calculator as well) I get 7.2 oz and
> > "15 lbs * 2% to oz" I get 4.8 oz.##
> >
> > So to me, 8 oz seems like a lot for her. Unless she's very active my
> > guess would be that 5 oz/day is more appropriate.
>
> She's a terrier. To say that she's hyper would be an understatement.
> :-) Also, we do try and walk/jog/stagger 2-4 miles a day. We're
> working up to a 5k.
>
> Sorry if my math's off. I guess it's also that I can't imagine giving
> the muttlet a half-cup (or just a shade over) of food every day. I
> realize she's not a human, but that's not much food to look at.
>
> Jen
> --
> Blonde. It's not just a hair color; it's a way of life.
>
>
>

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8. Portion sizes for a 40 pounder
Posted by: "k9_smiley" k9_smiley@yahoo.com k9_smiley
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:49 pm ((PST))

Hi all,

I'm once again back to get some inspiration to tweak my girl's diet.
She's a 2 year old Border collie mix who's been raw fed (mostly) since
we adopted her at 6 months. Over the past months her diet has become
somewhat ad hoc: she gets what I can buy, when I buy it, which means
mostly chicken quarters and turkey backs, eggs, beef liver, and other
red meat when it's on sale. It's time to put some oomph in there, and
be a little more deliberate about choosing the best foodstuffs for her.

However, I'm a little stumped. Can anyone with a similar size dog
(She's just over 41 pounds but could stand to put on a bit of padding;
fairly active, we go jogging about 5 times a week) give me some
examples of what they might feed on a regular basis, whether they're
feeding twice daily, once daily, or gorge-n-rest? Mieke's never been
much of a gorger, as evidenced by her snubbing of the lovely pork leg
I gave her tonight. :( (She'll get it again in the morning.)

For that matter, how does one start introducing a dog to the concept
of Big Meals, without starving her into desperation?

Thanks!
Best,
Alison and Mieke

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9a. Re: Veg... It seems I;m preaching to the deaf sometimes!
Posted by: "mathamgri" mathamgri@yahoo.com mathamgri
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 9:42 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Evie" <archie.willow@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
> On another forum there is an on going debate as to how essential
veg
> and fruit are to a dogs diet.
>
> I argue that it's not species appropriate, dogs are carnivores etc
> etc.

It's a pleasure to talk to people about raw who are open-minded and
interested and a waste of time to argue with people who are not. I
see one of my best friends almost every day, an extreme dog lover.
Not too long ago he had nine dogs, now he's down to six. His
geriatric dogs are experiencing health problems. He has lots of vet
bills. One of the dogs that died was only four. He's had a myriad of
problems, as did I when I fed Solid Gold. He feeds canned and dried
Pedigree and Kibbles and Bits. He cooks chicken and turkey and
various roasts for his dogs. He is very opposed to feeding raw. One
day he said he had to rush home as he had a turkey in the oven for
the dogs. I asked him why he didn't just feed it to them raw. No!
Never! One of his dogs is a littermate to my two-year-old. I can see
the difference. This is one of my best friends and this is a subject
we can't discuss.

I can understand why people don't want to change. It requires
examining yourself in a profound way. Especially if you have espoused
your ideas and beliefs to others, as I tend to do. I personally had
to admit that I bought into one of the stupidest myths of all. Dogs
should have kibble, no table scraps, and no variety. I had to admit
that I let someone else do my thinking for me, even when I had
nagging little doubts (people are supposed to choose from a wide
variety of fresh foods, canines do best on over-cooked kibble of
dubious origin). Duh! What was I thinking? I wonder sometimes what
other idiotic things I might be doing because I'm not paying
attention! At least the veg feeders are trying to do something
positive, even if some of us don't agree with their methods. It's a
giant step up from kibble.

Hannah

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10a. loose stools/really need some feedback
Posted by: "marge" marge_moriarty17551@yahoo.com marge_moriarty17551
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 3:17 am ((PST))

Hi everyone, This is a bit longer than usual..need guidance.

I am into 1+ months of raw feeding my two mini poodles.
Foxy seems to have very soupy stools and seems to go frequently. I
had originally started off with chicken and have since introduced
pork, some beef and some veal (more pork). He seemed to be handling
the new meats fine so I began to cut back on the chicken backs/bone
and increased meaty meat. At first I was just using pork as new
meat. Then the following week and off and on before this I gave a
little beef. This week I gave them some veal (I should only eat so
good!).

One more thing. I tried to introduce canned salmon in water..no
additives. I gave a tbs each last week. This may have cause loose
stools. I also gave foxy a taste of fish oil (less than teaspoon).
Pepper didn't want it. Maybe even these minute amounts didn't agree
with him?

In general, I find that I do need to give Foxy just a little more
bone than I was hoping...So now I will feed meaty meat for most meals
but about three times a week I do give him some back or thigh bone
along with his meat.

Pepper does not need this as he is more constipated so requires less
bone. I give him a back about once a week. This comes out to about
10% of his his total diet. Pepper however has trouble tackeling meaty
meat on bone. He takes forever and then will walk away. Last night
he had a thigh. I had to scissor it and eventually (after 30 min.) I
finally had to cut reamaing meat off bone. He finally came back and
ate it...but otherwise gets frustrated I think. I am trying not to
make it too easy for him but I feel I do need to let him eat. I only
cut it totally off bone as absolut last resort. I usually leave it
cut it away from bone in steps...trying to make him work.

I have yet to add organ meat but feel rushed to do so as they have
been eating raw for 1+months. Pepper probably could tolerate it
now..I am concerned with Foxy. I have chicken livers in fridge but
am afraid to feed...not sure how much.

I know this is a long post but I just need some guidance or
reassurance.

Thanks, Marge

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: loose stools/really need some feedback
Posted by: "Eddie Scholten" shirl-ed@hotmail.com shirley11964
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 4:29 am ((PST))

Hi Marge,

I'm also recent to raw-feeding with a new puppy, so have had all the loose stool issues to deal with too. I think we're into our 6/7 week now.

I found that I had to feed a lot of bone (chicken backs) in addition to chicken on the bone (leg/breast) for a long time before I finally got to the stage of consistently firm (almost white poo) which told me that I was then in a position to reduce some bone, which I did by cutting out the chicken backs. My pup now eats a variety of meaty meat, and hearts and some liver, and remains firm in the poo department.

I'm sure you'll get lots of more experienced guidance, but I just wanted to share my 'newbie' experience with you.

Regards,

Shirley.

To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.comFrom: marge_moriarty17551@yahoo.com

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Jouw nieuws en entertainment, vind je op MSN.nl!
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Messages in this topic (2)
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11. New to raw, 8mo puppy gulping
Posted by: "cindicarter1966" cindicarter@comcast.net cindicarter1966
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:23 am ((PST))

Hi, I'm Cindi.

My 8mo old puppy (20lb poodle mutt) has been eating raw for a week or
so. I've looked in the archives, but I still have a question or two.

I've been feeding him chicken breast meat with bone but no skin or
fat. We started raw because of a sudden bout with diarrhea and
someone I know recommended it. Any way, yesterday I looked at his
poop and it is finally not totally pudding. I was very pleased and
thought that we were well on our way to a raw feeding success.

In the middle of the night, Lucky threw up what appears to be an
unchewed hunk of bony chicken breast and meat. Although I'm in the
same room as him while he's eating, I turned around yesterday morning
and he obviously gulped a thigh-sized hunk of breast meat with lots
of rib bones. It happened so fast. I'm guessing that's what he
threw up. It was weird. It looked like a huge log of poop, brown in
color and I'm shocked that he didn't choke on the thing!

I'm assuming I need to give much bigger portions sizes, but I cut up
several leg quarters and a whole chicken. I only have 2 days
portions left that are skin and fat free and that I cut from the
orignal breast. Then I was going to start feeding the pieces of a
whole chicken and quarters that I cut up (split the leg and thighs
etc). Apparently I shouldn't have cut it up, but I did. Is it
unsafe to give him a leg only or a thigh only? Will those bigger
bones make it less likely to gulp or more do you think?

What about the back that i cut up also?

Is there anything else I can do to make gulping less likely and to
get through the bunch of chicken I cut up that I don't want to waste?

Thanks in advance,

Cindi and Lucky Dog

Messages in this topic (1)
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