[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11984

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Hello I am new here
From: Olga
1b. Re: Hello I am new here
From: Andrea
1c. Re: Hello I am new here
From: Morledzep@aol.com
1d. Re: Hello I am new here
From: Morledzep@aol.com

2a. HELP! 10 mo Dane, Bronco has diarrhea
From: karimlizette
2b. Re: HELP! 10 mo Dane, Bronco has diarrhea
From: Yasuko herron
2c. Re: HELP! 10 mo Dane, Bronco has diarrhea
From: Laurie Swanson
2d. Re: HELP! 10 mo Dane, Bronco has diarrhea
From: Andrea

3a. Re: skin issues (was: My intro...)
From: Laurie Swanson

4a. Re: problem with pooped out bone
From: cypressbunny
4b. Re: problem with pooped out bone
From: Yasuko herron

5a. Re: introduced pork today...question
From: Yasuko herron

6a. Re: Keeping white fur white- especially paws.
From: Laurie Swanson
6b. Re: Keeping white fur white- especially paws.
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker

7a. Re: Big chunks of food - when do I take it away?
From: Laurie Swanson

8a. Re: not eating enough
From: ptrsrgnt

9a. Re: where to feed dogs
From: swilken61
9b. Re: where to feed dogs
From: Yasuko herron
9c. Re: where to feed dogs
From: Renate Hotchkiss

10a. Re: I need to find a Holistic Vet in the Dallas area....
From: coriowen
10b. Re: I need to find a Holistic Vet in the Dallas area....
From: coriowen

11. Pet care
From: Anita

12. My Saints and apples
From: alluponjanice

13a. Pork Stomach?
From: Penelope Quillen
13b. Re: Pork Stomach?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:32 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, heather pavelin <hpav061378@...> wrote:
> Leo is 77 lbs and he got 2lbs and Claire who is 62 lbs got 1 1/2 lbs
> of leg quarters chicken does this sound right in the amount?

That sounds about right. My 75 lb grey gets around 1.5-2 lbs per day
(depending on the day and how active he is, etc.). It's a good
starting point, you can just adjust from there based on how they look
(don't go by those sad looking eyes though! lol).

Olga

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:09 pm ((PDT))

Forgive me, I'm not super well versed in euphamisms, by "the D issues"
do you mean diarrhea? That's the only problem I can think of that
starts with d, so I'm going to assume I'm on the right track.

First off, we should differentiate between true diarrhea and just loose
stools. True diarrhea is a watery mess that the dog can't hold in (see
earlier post about Bronco the exploding Dane). Loose stools are much
more common with newly switched dogs. If your dog can wait to go
outside and ends up pooing a puddle, it's loose stool.

Loose stools are commonly caused by handler error (that's us) or
overexuberance by the dog. Feeding too much food, introducing a new
meat, introducing organs can all produce this effect. From the
conversation it sounds like Leo might be having loose stool because
he's eating a little more than his stomach can digest right now. If
I'm right, you'll probably find that feeding the whole day's worth in
one go has made the problem worse. You may want to go back to two
meals a day and slowly work back up to one meal if this is the case.
Give us some more info on the problem and we'll see if we can figure it
out.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, heather pavelin <hpav061378@...>
wrote:
>
> Leo is not missing any teeth but they are very worn. I watched him
today and he chews it up pretty good but it just takes him longer to do
it than little miss " I can eat it all in one bite" Claire. Now to see
if we can get past the D issues.

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:32 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/31/2007 8:04:47 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mrbatisse@yahoo.ca writes:

If I just throw a chicken leg quarter down for her, she won't touch it.

Shannon,

that's because she knows she has you buffaloed (don't feel bad, my hubby is a
sucker for big brown puppy eyes too).. she knows if she refuses to eat what
you offer you will pick it up and cut it into convenient pieces for her. That
way she never has to put any real effort into eating.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:38 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/31/2007 5:33:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
hpav061378@yahoo.com writes:

He also has a hard time chewing the
quarters because his teeth are very worn. Any suggestions would be
great.

Heather,

Less poop is one of the perks off feeding raw. there are no fillers, nothing
that just needs to be processed through and depositted. Your dog is
naturally able to use more of the food that he's being fed, and therefore there is
less waste.

Dogs with few teeth, or worn teeth just need longer to eat.. give him a space
where he can relax and eat at his pace and finish his food without
interuption. Unless he's completely toothless there is no reason to modify his diet at
all.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. HELP! 10 mo Dane, Bronco has diarrhea
Posted by: "karimlizette" karimlizette@gmail.com karimlizette
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:39 am ((PDT))

So I got home and was getting ready to start Bronco on pork after being
on chiken for 1 1/2 wks. Well the entire house smelled as I walked in
and I noticed poor Bronco had EXPLODED in his kennel!! He had 3 chiken
thighs and a breast last night. He seemed fine this morning. What
should I do now? Should I give him the pork or just chiken backs for
dinner?

Thanks,
Karim

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: HELP! 10 mo Dane, Bronco has diarrhea
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:23 pm ((PDT))

>So I got home and was getting ready to start Bronco on pork after being on chiken for 1 1/2 >wks. I noticed poor Bronco had EXPLODED in his kennel!!

Hi. How is your dog doing now? Is your dog diarrhea;cannot control and watery still or loose poo?

If it were loose poo,add more bone to the meal. And if watery and cannot controll,you may want to fast the dog a day,and provide lots of liquid to avoid dehydration.Make sure your dog drink water very good.

For feeding time,you can give just chicken broth,and if you already bought slippery elmpowder that others on this list talk a lot about,give this with broth and it should help.

Nexttime you feed, give chicken again and if yourdog was digesting ok,give chicken+small amount of Pork if you like to introduce pork.And then,gradually increase pork amount.

And.. what did you feed this morning? How much did you feed? Did you put or did anything new?

>I read you fed 3 Chicken thigh and breast last night.

If you fed the same stuff this morning,it probably needed more bone.And,maybe for thesize of yourdog,maybe too small piece of meat I think. I think Dane is big dog,right?
You may want to cut up whole chicken to appropriate pieces. That maybe cheaper too compare to buying parts by parts.

If you give us more detail,we could help you more,I think.

yassy

---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: HELP! 10 mo Dane, Bronco has diarrhea
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:10 pm ((PDT))

Hi Karim,

Poor Bronco...You may just need to change your feeding schedule (not
that you want to be on a specific schedule, but you know, just to make
sure he can eliminate before being put in his crate?). What have you
been feeding for the past 1-1/2 wks.? It's been going well? Are you
feeding more meaty portions than just chicken backs?

Laurie

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Re: HELP! 10 mo Dane, Bronco has diarrhea
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:10 pm ((PDT))

Don't feed him the pork until his stomach settles down. If he is still
acting ok, feed him something easy like bone in chicken breast, maybe a
chicken back to up the bone content, but don't go overboard. Feed a
little less than you ordinarily would. If he were an adult I'd say
fast him today, but you probably want to keep the pup fed.

Now, to figure out why this happened. . .Did Bronco eat a larger meal
last night than normal? Did you get a new brand of chicken or was it
from a different store? Were you late coming home? What was different
this time that could have triggered it? Sorry you came home to a poo
covered dog, that couldn't have been much fun.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "karimlizette" <karimlizette@...>
wrote:
>
> So I got home and was getting ready to start Bronco on pork after
> being on chiken for 1 1/2 wks. Well the entire house smelled as I
> walked in and I noticed poor Bronco had EXPLODED in his kennel!!

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: skin issues (was: My intro...)
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:40 am ((PDT))

Hi Lynne,

Itchy skin can be caused by or exacerbated by diet. My dog gets itchy
from grains. Others have mentioned noticing itchiness related to
enhanced meats. I'm sure it's not always that simple or easy to
correlate, and there can be many other factors, but what's going on on
the inside can definitely show up externally.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "linoleum5017" <linoleum5017@...>
wrote:
>
> Valerie,
>
> I used to be owned by a GP, as well. One thing I learned on this
list
> is that itchy skin is EXTERNAL, not caused (or relieved,)by something
> internal. Food, in other words,will not likely help a skin allergy.

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: problem with pooped out bone
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:01 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "nat_franc" <chickenchucker@...>
wrote:
>
> yes, i am feeding cooked bone.

*** I think the dog does not need as much bone as you are feeding. I
would shoot for the very low end of the species-appropriate amount
of bone--10% of diet or even less, temporarily.

> i am ordering some
> Berte's Zyme today.

*** This product measures enzymes in mg rather than active units, so
I wonder about the efficacy. It also contains enzymes dogs eating
raw foods do not need.

> he is not digesting raw bone.

*** Either his stomach is not sufficiently acidic to dissolve bone,
or he is not producing the enzymes necessary to break down
connective tissue. In this case I'd be reluctant to feed much
ground, especially with a lot of bone in it. Don't overdo the bone
or other calcium supps--it neutralizes the stomach acid and impairs
digestion.

*** I think I will shock the list and say the pressure-cooked bone
would be my preference over ground, especially in view of the fact
that he is passing the ground bits whole. If he is not digesting the
ground bone, he is not getting any benefit from it. Many of the
minerals will leach out of the cooked bone and into the water, so I
would feed that as well.

*** Were it my dog, I would feed raw pancreas with every meal, or if
that were not available, a prescription-strength enzyme supplement.
The over the counter ones are not strong enough, and ones like
ProZyme contain much amylase which he doesn't need, and not nearly
enough proteases and lipases. I would also have a fecal elastase
test done--not expensive, not invasive, and might help answer the
question of why bone is not being digested.

*** Once the dog is getting back on track health-wise, I might feed
a test portion of ground bone and see if it comes out the same way
it went in.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: problem with pooped out bone
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:11 pm ((PDT))

>*** Once the dog is getting back on track health-wise, I might feed a test portion of ground >bone and see if it comes out the same way it went in

That will be good idea. If dog could not digest bone at all, then, she could use grounded Egg shell(calcium source) to compensate for not eating bone in diet.

yassy

---------------------------------
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: introduced pork today...question
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:02 pm ((PDT))

>Tonight she threw up bone fragments with bile

I think if she vomited bile with bone, the meal got too much bone and the one that your dog could not digest came out from mouth.

How much boneless pork meat did you feed?

I think if the dog was hungry,usually be just bile.

yassy

---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Keeping white fur white- especially paws.
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:02 pm ((PDT))

Hi Kae,

I have a Boston with a white chin and neck and especially when he eats
his Kongs, that area gets nice and red/brown. I've noticed it just
goes away after a day or two. Now if he was eating Kongs with red meat
every day, I suppose it would be constant...His paws have some white on
them, too, and they get somewhat brown. He cleans them, though, and
they aren't always brown. If it bothered me, I guess I'd just give him
a little wipe w/a wet washcloth or a rinse in the tub after a meal.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kaebruney" <kaebruney@...> wrote:
>
> What do you white coated dog owners do to keep your dogs muzzle and
> paws from looking stained and showing bloody residue? Or should I just
> consider it a byproduct of a healthy well fed dog and leave well
> enough alone? *lol*
>

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Keeping white fur white- especially paws.
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:28 pm ((PDT))

-
> What do you white coated dog owners do to keep your dogs muzzle and
> paws from looking stained and showing bloody residue? Or should I just
> consider it a byproduct of a healthy well fed dog and leave well
> enough alone? *lol*
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kae
>

Kae,
I wash all of mine with mild dog shampoo and water about once a month
and daily they get their faces and paws cleaned well with baby wipes.
Works for me!
Penny & The Menagerie

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Big chunks of food - when do I take it away?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:02 pm ((PDT))

Hi Tracey,

Taking it away after 15 minutes is kind of arbitrary. People usually
use that kind of guideline if their dog ISN'T eating and is being
picky (whole different purpose). If you know how much the item
weighs, and how much you want a meal to be, you can either estimate
when they've eaten that amount (1/2 of the hunk or whatever) or pick
it up and weigh it and see how much they've eaten, and remove it when
they've eaten what you want. You will get better at visualizing what
an appropriate size meal is. Or you can try letting them get their
fill and see if they start self-regulating better (eating less
following big meal days). If they don't, and get fat, you might have
to regulate for them. If the skinny one takes awhile to eat, that's
ok--no need to remove the food before s/he's done.

Gas seems to be worse with big meals or fatty meals. My dog also
gets gas if he's had his raw meal and then we decide to give him a
few bites of our starchy foods (fruits/veggies/grains/etc.). It
might get better over time as their digestive systems improve.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "trayck" <trayck@...> wrote:

> How do I regulate how much they eat per day so they don't end up
too
> fat or skinny as I want to try and maintain the 2 - 3 % of
bodyweight
> I am feeding per day?
>
> Also any suggestions on what to give to the dogs to help decrease
the
> stinky air bombs that sometimes occur?
>

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: not eating enough
Posted by: "ptrsrgnt" ptrsrgnt@yahoo.ca ptrsrgnt
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:03 pm ((PDT))

They don't really like the organ meat but they know that they can take
it or leave it. They usually take it but very slowly. I give it frozen
because they won't touch it thawed.

In my last enquiry a few weeks ago, they were having runny poops and I
was told that this was because they were being fed too much at one
meal and to split it into two meals per day. The advise said that they
are too young to be fed just once a day. That they should be at least
a year old before going to one meal per day.

The usual recommendation for feeding is 2 or 3% of their ideal adult
body weight per day. This works out to between 11 and 17 ounces for
Maggie and between 21 and 31 ounces for Gypsy, Split between two meals.
Maggie used to get 6 ounces for breakfast and 8 ounces for supper (all
she would eat) but for the last few weeks she rarely eats her supper.
Gypsy would always eat everything and more but she was doing runny
poops and I was advised to split the amount into two meals, which I
did and it definately helped. Now they both do solid poops. So I am
wary of increasing the size of the meals.

The food is given in one piece chunks and they chew at them. As I said
they are in excellent condition and have so much energy, but I don't
know how Maggie is able to run around so much with only 6 ounces of
food. Gypsy eventually eats her supper while Maggie usually leaves
hers, but they are both not as keen as they used to be.
That was the reason for my question "Has anyone had experience with
their dog GOING OFF RAW food".
It could be the hot weather these past few weeks.
But they are not losing weight right now, so I will keep a close eye
on both of them.

Thanks for all the answers. I will have to experiment more.

Peter

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "swilken61" powrfemme@aol.com swilken61
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:23 pm ((PDT))

> Well, Bugs brings the bully into my lap and I sit there and hold it
for
> him while he chews on it! :-)

One of my dogs actually does like to sit on my lap while she chews her
sticks. She doesn't seem to be able to settle down otherwise and just
harrasses my other dog while she eats hers. On the couch.

Since I started the raw feeding adventure, my gross-out threshold has
gotten my higher than bully stick on the couch! The ones I get have
very little odor, and quite frankly I have too many other damands on my
time to worry too much about it.

So far, two meals in a row have been eaten in the kitchen on towels
wihtout too much trouble, so it seems to be going okay.

stephany

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:09 pm ((PDT))

>One of my dogs actually does like to sit on my lap while she chews her
sticks. She doesn't seem to be able to settle down otherwise and just
harrasses my other dog while she eats hers. On the couch.

>Since I started the raw feeding adventure, my gross-out threshold has gotten my higher >than bully stick on the couch!

Hi. palette used to snack every rawhide I gave wherever she wants to nibble on,but without any concious,I kept take it away from her and put it back to her Comfort zone bed,and now she eats all her chew stuff such as bully sticks on her bed in living room downstairs ,or Cool bed upstairs.

Only Deer antlers, you can find on carpet and she lay down like super-man and munch on it now and then. I don't mind. It is not going to be sticky and not going to get color onto carpet.

>So far, two meals in a row have been eaten in the kitchen on towels wihtout too much >trouble, so it seems to be going okay.

I section off with puppy pen by straighting up the panels,from kitchen to the other room.

Then, I place shower curtain (vynile one not cotton one),and she eats there. I wipe 50water 50 vinegar solution for easy clean up and I wash it weekly.

yassy

---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

9c. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "Renate Hotchkiss" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:10 pm ((PDT))

Sorry for my ignorance, but what the heck is a bully stick?

On 8/31/07, swilken61 <powrfemme@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Well, Bugs brings the bully into my lap and I sit there and hold it
> for
> > him while he chews on it! :-)
> .
>
>
>

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: I need to find a Holistic Vet in the Dallas area....
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:10 pm ((PDT))

Thank you Sara, I'll check this site and see if I can find one
nearby.
Cori

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sarra <wildlycrafty@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> coriowen wrote:
> > I actually live SE of Dallas, out near Canton. If anyone knows
of one
> > closer to Rockwall, or Mesquite or one that is in the Easern side
of
> > Dallas, I would really appreciate the recommendation.
>
> I don't have any personal experience with any of the vets on this
list.
>
>

http://www.dogpack.com/directory/DFWHolisticVets.html
>
>
> Sarra
>

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. Re: I need to find a Holistic Vet in the Dallas area....
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:13 pm ((PDT))

Katie,
Thanks for the info on your vet but Plano is a good 70 miles away
from me. I would like to find one that is at least in Mesquite or
East Dallas that is about 45-55 miles from me. Again, I appreciate
the help. =)
Cori

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Katie" <kcrockett@...> wrote:
>
> My vet is in Plano - slightly north of Dallas. She is not a
proponent of a raw diet, but doesn't
> give me grief about it either. (And she is AWESOME!!!) However -
she has a vet that works
> with her who is a holistic vet, I believe. I'm not sure she
embraces a prey model, but she
> might be worth talking to. E-mail me off list and I'll give you
her info.
>
> ...katie
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Pamela Picard" <pet.wellness@>
wrote:
> >
> > --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "coriowen" <COwen98@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I actually live SE of Dallas, out near Canton. If anyone knows
of one
> > > closer to Rockwall, or Mesquite or one that is in the Easern
side of
> > > Dallas, I would really appreciate the recommendation.
>

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11. Pet care
Posted by: "Anita" craftyhoosiermama@gmail.com anita42776
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:10 pm ((PDT))

Hi-
I have a few questions about pet care and boarding on a raw diet. We
have a few trips coming up before the end of the year.
We've used a pet sitter in the past but recently had a bad experience
with one and my dh really just wants to kennel her from now on. My
concern though is (assuming we won't be ably to find one who will keep
up with the raw diet) what will the flip flop in food do to her
digestion system? She has pretty bad separation anxiety and is prone
to accidents from stomach upset already.

What other options are there for when you travel but can't take your
dog with you?

Thanks,
Anita

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12. My Saints and apples
Posted by: "alluponjanice" alluponjanice@yahoo.com alluponjanice
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:11 pm ((PDT))

My Boy and girl seem to be fond of apples! Whenever my wife eats them
they want them too.I am afraid she is going to set one on the table one
day and (poof!)they're eating apple! My question is if they get hold of
one is it harmful
Thanks CHRISTIAN ( KING SOLOMON and QUEEN MAKEDA)

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. Pork Stomach?
Posted by: "Penelope Quillen" copperquillpen@hotmail.com copperquillpen1958
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:14 pm ((PDT))

When I was at the store, I also saw a package labeled "Empty Pork Stomach."
It was right next to the pork liver. Is that good for anything? And I know
this is not really on the subject, but can people eat pork liver? Penelope

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

13b. Re: Pork Stomach?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:26 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/31/2007 2:14:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
copperquillpen@hotmail.com writes:

When I was at the store, I also saw a package labeled "Empty Pork Stomach."
It was right next to the pork liver. Is that good for anything? And I know
this is not really on the subject, but can people eat pork liver?

Penelope,

yes people can eat pork liver.. lol. Pork stomachs in people food grocery
stores here in the USA are cleaned and scalded (boiled) to clean them to make
them "safe" for people to eat. For dogs they make ok chew toys but are not
food..

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11983

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. vet in Monterey or Santa Cruz
From: Christina Wynings
1b. Re: vet in Monterey or Santa Cruz
From: costrowski75

2a. Hello I am new here
From: Heather
2b. Re: Hello I am new here
From: Olga
2c. Re: Hello I am new here
From: Shannon Parker
2d. Re: Hello I am new here
From: heather pavelin
2e. Re: Hello I am new here
From: heather pavelin
2f. Re: Hello I am new here
From: Laura Atkinson
2g. Re: Hello I am new here
From: Yasuko herron

3a. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
From: esmolensky

4a. Re: obstruction?
From: nat_franc

5. ADMIN: SIGNING AND TRIMMIN
From: GWB

6. Keeping white fur white- especially paws.
From: kaebruney

7a. Re: 10 mo Dane
From: karimlizette

8a. Re: Need help! Tartar build-up
From: costrowski75

9a. Need help! Tartar build-up
From: Kathleen
9b. Need help! Tartar build-up
From: Olga

10a. guts
From: lhmcmaken
10b. Re: guts
From: costrowski75

11a. Re: Pork Liver
From: Olga

12a. Re: Big chunks of food - when do I take it away?
From: Tina Berry

13a. Re: problem with pooped out bone
From: nat_franc
13b. Re: problem with pooped out bone
From: Yasuko herron
13c. Re: problem with pooped out bone
From: blue eyed

14a. Re: My intro...
From: ginny wilken

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. vet in Monterey or Santa Cruz
Posted by: "Christina Wynings" cwynings@yahoo.com cwynings
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:18 am ((PDT))

Hi all ~

My vet is negative about raw feeding -
Can anyone recommend a vet in this area
who is supportive?
or recommend sources of raw food?

thanks
Christina

____________________________________________________________________________________
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: vet in Monterey or Santa Cruz
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:35 am ((PDT))

Christina Wynings <cwynings@...> wrote:
>
> My vet is negative about raw feeding -
> Can anyone recommend a vet in this area
> who is supportive?
> or recommend sources of raw food?
*****
If you trust your vet to be otherwise competent, I recommend you not
worry about his dislike of raw feeding. Being supportive of raw food
is but one aspect of the relationship. His medical acumen is at
least as relevant as his nutrition education.

If you are unhappy with both his dietary views and his interpretation
of the medical profession, then yeah, it's probably time to find a
vet who will work with you. If I were you, I would use as my primary
guidelines the vet's stand on spay/neuter, vaccines, drugs like
Rimadyl. I would evaluate the front office attitude, the way clients
are greeted and treated. I would make sure "seeing the patient"
includes the human. If these areas suit, it's likely diet will be
much less an issue.

I think a vet confident of her abilities can take a client saying "I
do the food, you do the medicine" without getting all huffy and
counterproductive.

However, it's your dog and gosh darn you have the right if not
obligation to have it treated in a manner you feel comfortable with.
You might get some good leads from:

Barbara DeGroodt
http://www.fromtheheart.info

k9tootr@fromtheheart.info
From the Heart Animal Behavior
Counseling and Dog Training

Her training center is in Salinas but she covers the Monterey
Peninsula and much of the central coast.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Hello I am new here
Posted by: "Heather" hpav061378@yahoo.com hpav061378
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:32 am ((PDT))

My name is Heather and I have 2 greyhounds Leo and Claire. Leo is the
reason I have started with the raw diet. We have been on chicken leg
quarters for 2 days now. Claire has done great she LOVES the chicken
and I even need to find a way to get her to slow down. Leo on the
other hand has had some D only a little amount tho before with kibble
it was a mountain of a pile. He also has a hard time chewing the
quarters because his teeth are very worn. Any suggestions would be
great. thanks Heather

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:32 am ((PDT))

Hi Heather and welcome to the list!

I suggest giving them a few more days to get the hang of chicken
quarters. How old is Leo? Does he have any issues with his teeth
currently that would make him hesitant to chew bones?

My grey has had great improvement in both the dental and "output" ;)
areas since we started raw. Perhaps Leo just needs to get used to
chewing? Nothing wrong with doing it slowly, as long as he does chew
and it doesn't cause him pain.

Olga

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:04 am ((PDT))

Hi Heather,

I am rawfeeding a greyhound as well. I end up cutting up the chicken leg quarters into smaller pieces for her. She is missing all of her incisors as well as the premolars (she used to be a cage chewer in her racing days), but she chews through the bones with no problems. If Leo is not a gulper and chews carefully I would recommend cutting it up. My dog still gets the benefits of chewing the bones (her teeth are finally beautiful) and will eat her food with no problems. If I just throw a chicken leg quarter down for her, she won't touch it.

Good luck,

Shannon

Heather <hpav061378@yahoo.com> wrote:
Leo on the other hand has had some D only a little amount tho before with kibble it was a mountain of a pile. He also has a hard time chewing the
quarters because his teeth are very worn. Any suggestions would be
great. thanks Heather

---------------------------------
All new Yahoo! Mail
---------------------------------
Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "heather pavelin" hpav061378@yahoo.com hpav061378
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:22 am ((PDT))

Leo is not missing any teeth but they are very worn. I watched him today and he chews it up pretty good but it just takes him longer to do it than little miss " I can eat it all in one bite" Claire. Now to see if we can get past the D issues. Thanks Heather._,___

---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2e. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "heather pavelin" hpav061378@yahoo.com hpav061378
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:23 am ((PDT))

Both of my dogs will be 4 in Oct. After watching them today I see that he is just taking his time chewing the bones up now Claire on the other hand inhaled 2 leg quarters today like they were candy. I am trying the once a day feeding today just to see how they handle it but my doggies always act like they are starving by the time dinner and breakfast come along, so this morning I let them have their whole days food Claire was done within 15 mins maybe less and Leo was about 20-25 mins. Leo is 77 lbs and he got 2lbs and Claire who is 62 lbs got 1 1/2 lbs of leg quarters chicken does this sound right in the amount? thanks Heather

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2f. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:03 am ((PDT))

Heck, my dogs act like they're starving 15 minutes after dinner. I wouldn't
give much weight to their feelings in that regard <grin>. Figure 2%-3% of
their adult weight to start with and adjust up or down if they get plump or
thin on those amounts. That'll get you started.

On 8/31/07, heather pavelin <hpav061378@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Both of my dogs will be 4 in Oct. After watching them today I see that he
> is just taking his time chewing the bones up now Claire on the other hand
> inhaled 2 leg quarters today like they were candy. I am trying the once a
> day feeding today just to see how they handle it but my doggies always act
> like they are starving by the time dinner and breakfast come along, so this
> morning I let them have their whole days food Claire was done within 15 mins
> maybe less and Leo was about 20-25 mins. Leo is 77 lbs and he got 2lbs and
> Claire who is 62 lbs got 1 1/2 lbs of leg quarters chicken does this sound
> right in the amount? thanks Heather

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2g. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:29 am ((PDT))

> Leo is 77 lbs and he got 2lbs and Claire who is 62 lbs got 1 1/2 lbs of leg quarters chicken >does this sound right in the amount?

Hi. I read one of your dog tends to inhale food (leg quarters),so,I think the food itself maybe too easy for them.

Why not buying whole chicken and cut up?It may be slow down the inhaling eating.

yassy

---------------------------------
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
Posted by: "esmolensky" esmolensky@yahoo.com esmolensky
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:44 am ((PDT))

> Now, with regards to weight gain..... is he looking to skinny?
(bear
> in mind that around 8-9 months most mastiffs tend to be pretty
lanky
> and "leggy" looking). One of the biggest mistakes that can be made
> for a giant breed dog is to put too much weight and stress on their
> joints while young and growing. Unless the pup is very thin (can
see
> all the ribs) I would be reluctant to feed too much at this point.

I can see ribs when he runs.

Surprised you have not had a blowout mess at feeding 4lbs/day to be
> honest!
Me too, honestly he's been handling it extremely well. No diarrhea,
no vomiting, just the first day he had those symptoms.
he seems like a happy go-lucky dog.

E & Reagan

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mgitaville" <mgitaville@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "esmolensky" <esmolensky@>
> wrote:
> >
> > ***EDITED BY MODERATOR. FAILURE TO TRIM MAY RESULT IN LOST
POSTS.***
> >
> >
> > I have a 7mos. old BB puppy at around 80# for now.
> > I feed him close to 4# a day. I think I'm feeding him too much,
but
> > he's not gaining any weight and he's been on raw about 10 days.
> >
> > E & Reagan
> >
>
> >
> >
> Marguerita
>

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: obstruction?
Posted by: "nat_franc" chickenchucker@gmail.com nat_franc
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:44 am ((PDT))

if you are referring to my post, regarding atticus, it was a small
piece of COOKED chicken leg that he got out of the trash. he was
having digestive problems, anyway, and the vet said that it probably
got stuck because of all of that. i have it, it is very hard and
sharp. even though m vet doesn't endorse a raw diet, he said that in
no way was atticus's problem attributed to his raw food. he wasn't
eating raw at the time he got sick.

natalie

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5. ADMIN: SIGNING AND TRIMMIN
Posted by: "GWB" chiksika48@comcast.net kioqua
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:48 am ((PDT))

Signing your mails and trimming your mails ARE list REQUIREMENTS!!!
The moderators are far to busy to be baby sitters. Most mails to the
list that are UNsigned or UNtrimmed are deleted without notice. Some
from this AM have already met that fate.

PLEASE, sign and trim.

Questions or comment??

rawfeeding-owner@yaoogroups.com

Gerry Brierley-mod guy

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6. Keeping white fur white- especially paws.
Posted by: "kaebruney" kaebruney@yahoo.com kaebruney
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:24 am ((PDT))

Hey gang, this is probably a little OT, but my beautiful white and
buckskin AmBull foster is starting to brown around his paws from his
raw foods.

What do you white coated dog owners do to keep your dogs muzzle and
paws from looking stained and showing bloody residue? Or should I just
consider it a byproduct of a healthy well fed dog and leave well
enough alone? *lol*

Thanks!

Kae

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: 10 mo Dane
Posted by: "karimlizette" karimlizette@gmail.com karimlizette
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:24 am ((PDT))

> "karimlizette" <karimlizette@> wrote:
> > My question is I know you are supposed
> > to raise the food bowl to prevent Bloat

"I wouldn't be worried...sounds like he is eating, right?"

Yes, and I will start him on pork today.

"Just feed him on the floor and let him chose how to eat...my Danes
most
often eat laying down. That is a normal eating position."

Sandee & the Dane Gang

That makes things much easier!

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
> How's he eating other food?

Before he started RAW he was on K**ble, he ate that fine but he did
have skin issues so we decided to switch him to RAW.
I will try pork today.
Thanks for all your help,
Karim

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Need help! Tartar build-up
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:38 am ((PDT))

"cris_milam" <cmilam@...> wrote:
> I just feel
> like a bad mommy for not being able to figure out how to keep his
> teeth nice.
*****
You're not a bad mommy.
Keeping the teeth clean is a mechanical process. If he doesn't/won't
scrub them, you'll have to do it for him.

I recommend you continue looking for food he can sink his teeth into,
you never know what body part might finally do the trick. I have a
similar problem with my foofoo golden. His front teeth are fine but he
won't use them. Nor will he use his paws.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Need help! Tartar build-up
Posted by: "Kathleen" kbabcock1@yahoo.com kbabcock1
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:05 am ((PDT))

I also have a greyhound that does the same thing. No paws on meat, and will only chew with back teeth. I have been giving her pork neck bones and lamb neck bones. The are soft enough to be chewed that way, yet hard enough to get the teeth scraped. We switched several months ago after she had 3 teeth pulled. Up until then, I knew nothing of the raw movement :)

I am trying to get rabbit chunks as I hear game meat has tougher tendons and do a good job at flossing the teeth. Mine will not eat any thing poultry, no chicken, no turkey-have not tried anything else as it would an expensive waste of money to do so. I am going to try goat and green tripe as well as soon as my order comes in.

My tami does not like getting dirty, not with eating, mud etc. She skirts all around it. I don't know if that was from the track or what, but it is very funny. I have tried to help her by holding it, but she will take it in her back teeth from me, but will not chomp down until I let go. Take a look at the front of your greys mouth, mine has, what I have been told, something I never saw on any other dog I have owned, all her front teeth are ground down. The rescue group says it was from cage biting. I figure that is probably a good reason she does not pull on the meat. See if yours is that bad in the front. The greys also have a wide distance between the large canine and the teeth on the sides. All the other dogs I had, did not have such spacing as their snout was no as long. It bothers her to get things caught in that space, so she defers to the back teeth. As this is my first and only greyhound, I learned from watching and asking other grey owners about what I was seeing.

I hoped I have helped-they are great dogs, aren't they---:)

Kathleen and TAMI (Tuxedo Greyhound)

---------------------------------
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Need help! Tartar build-up
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:38 am ((PDT))

My grey wouldn't let food touch his paws at first also. Now he
doesn't mind if it sits on his paw while he chews, although he still
won't hold it down with his paws.

What does a great job for his teeth is pork hocks - between that tough
skin and the bone on the inside. But, it takes a bit of effort, so
what I usually do if I have a meal like that planned for my grey is
feed a smaller meal the previous day, so he is a bit more hungry. We
also get pork picnic roasts which make for a few boneless meals but I
leave a good amount of meat around the bone - lots of chewing there also.

Olga

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. guts
Posted by: "lhmcmaken" lhmcmaken@yahoo.com lhmcmaken
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:05 am ((PDT))

hi guys. am getting a lamb next week and wondered if I want the
intestines? my guys are on week 4 and had pork for the first time
yesterday. still hard to hear the bones crunch but they did well and
both look most excellent. thanks.
take care,
lynda maude and franklin

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. Re: guts
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:44 am ((PDT))

"lhmcmaken" <lhmcmaken@...> wrote:
>
> hi guys. am getting a lamb next week and wondered if I want the
> intestines? my guys are on week 4 and had pork for the first time
> yesterday. still hard to hear the bones crunch but they did well and
> both look most excellent.
*****
I always get as much as I can and let the dogs sort it out later. Ya
never know who's gonna like what.

If you have to pay a lot more to get the intestines, don't bother. But
if it's just a matter of dumping more or fewer entrails into a bucket
or a bag, then by all means take them.

Way to go!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: Pork Liver
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:27 am ((PDT))

> I was at the store earlier today. Got some flounder today. I saw in
> the
> meat dept., a package of raw pork liver. Is this the same as beef &
> chicken
> livers, or should I just stick to chicken & beef? Penelope

Well, it's not the same as beef and chicken liver, obviously, but it's
worth feeding. Nothing wrong with pork liver at all, my dogs get it
all the time.

Olga

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: Big chunks of food - when do I take it away?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:24 am ((PDT))

"How do I regulate how much they eat per day so they don't end up too fat or
skinny as I want to try and maintain the 2 - 3 % of bodyweight I am feeding
per day?"

Some dogs will regulate themselves; as in gorge one day, fast the next or
eat minimal. I would recommend feeding your Westie away from your beagle,
pick up meals after 20 minutes or when they've appeared to stopped eating.

I feed my pack the same amount every day just so it's esier for me to keep
track how much I am feeding. But they are large pieces like a half a
chicken or a 2 lb deer roast, etc.

Whatever is easiest for you, the dogs will adapt. If throwing down 2lbs one
day and 1/2 lb the next, etc... unless yoru dog is an over eater (some are)
you will be able to easily tell as their ribs should feel like washboards
when you rub their sides, and they should have a waist line. I don't
calculate the 2-3% of body weight thing.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. Re: problem with pooped out bone
Posted by: "nat_franc" chickenchucker@gmail.com nat_franc
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:25 am ((PDT))

yes, i am feeding cooked bone. it has only been for a little
over a week. i pressure cook them for about 1.5 hours and then blend them
or mash them fine. he has done fine on this. i am ordering some
Berte's Zyme today. and the ground was leg quarters and added turkey.
i took out a few bones from the leg quarters to balance out the meat
to bone ratio. and i am gonna grind for him for a long time as his
digestive tract is all torn up from his illness and surgery and the
bone obstruction. he got into the cat's food last week and ate her
portion of bone in chicken breast, 4 days later he had x-rays and the
bones were intact in his colon, he is not digesting raw bone. and
there is no way i am taking any chances on him not chewing well enough
and getting another bone stuck in there. my vet said that the biopsy
indicated that his stomach wasn't digesting properly and that is
probably why the little piece of bone got stuck in his small bowel. he
took his last dose of antibiotics this morning, so i am hoping that
things will improve as he has been on antibiotics for over a month now
and that doesn't help the bowels at all.
>
> natalie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Probably too much bone. You are not really feeding cooked bone, are
you?
> I'm not exactly sure what you are cooking and what you are grinding.
>
> Nevertheless, I would stop grinding, feed less bone and add a good
digestive
> or pancreatic enzyme designed to digest protein and fat. Prozyme
only works
> on carbohydrates and can cause digestive upsets.

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

13b. Re: problem with pooped out bone
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:03 am ((PDT))

>he took his last dose of antibiotics this morning, so i am hoping that things will improve as >he has been on antibiotics for over a month now and that doesn't help the bowels at all.

Hi. I think anti biotic does not help bowel prob because anti biotic decrease the good bacteria in gutt if I remember right.

So, I often read in book that if the dog got dosed with anti biotic,good to give probiotic to get the gutt have friendly bacteria more.

I think I read you give probiotic hour before you give anti biotic.

Anyone know about this? I know I read in book often times about anti biotic and probiotic.

yassy

---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

13c. Re: problem with pooped out bone
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:14 am ((PDT))

Hi I think in this case I would just feed raw only -NO cooked bones and stop any unecessary supplements/medications. Start with ground meat (no bone) and add calcium carbonate 900mg per lb of food. Maybe start with turkey mince from supermarket? The calcium carbonate you can get at the chemist really cheaply (its an ant-acid tablet) and it will help with calcium uptake and firming stools at first, once he can digest this ok for a few days you can try to add the ground turkey mince that includes the ground bone......

Its what I would do anyway,

Natalie

---------------------------------
For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14a. Re: My intro...
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:04 am ((PDT))

On Aug 30, 2007, at 10:16 PM, linoleum5017 wrote:

> Valerie,
>
> I used to be owned by a GP, as well. One thing I learned on this list
> is that itchy skin is EXTERNAL, not caused (or relieved,)by something
> internal. Food, in other words,will not likely help a skin allergy.
> Feeding raw, of course, helps in many ways, so it is a worthwhile
> endeavor.
>
> Best,
> Lynne

Of course, homeopathic theory would express this in a completely
opposite way: that the disease which causes symptoms is a chronic
systemic state, and that what seems to trigger the symptoms is of no
importance. Either way, proper diet will best support health, and
will not cause aggravations in itself. I'd invite both of you over to
Rawchat if you would care to explore this further.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11982

There are 13 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: PIG HEAD AND MAGGOTS...
From: linoleum5017

2a. Re: snack ideas for small breed (alaskan klee kai) and meal plan
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

3a. Re: problem with pooped out bone
From: jmwise80

4a. Re: introduced pork today...question
From: lar07911

5a. Re: I need to find a Holistic Vet in the Dallas area....
From: Pamela Picard
5b. Re: I need to find a Holistic Vet in the Dallas area....
From: Sarra
5c. Re: I need to find a Holistic Vet in the Dallas area....
From: Katie
5d. Re: I need to find a Holistic Vet in the Dallas area....
From: coriowen

6. Need help! Tartar build-up
From: cris_milam

7a. Re: My intro...
From: linoleum5017

8a. Pork Liver
From: Penelope Quillen

9. Big chunks of food - when do I take it away?
From: trayck

10. obstruction?
From: tinamdeloia

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: PIG HEAD AND MAGGOTS...
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:45 pm ((PDT))

Lora,

Welcome back! I have missed you greatly. You had a lot of wisdom to
share.

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Bearhair <bearhair@...> wrote:
>
> Any leftover maggots will die quickly - they'll starve and
dehydrate, if the
> dogs don't find them first. Calm down, get a fan out, and try to get
as much
> bug spray out of the dog's environment as you can.
>
> Lora
> Evanston
>

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: snack ideas for small breed (alaskan klee kai) and meal plan
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:55 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/30/2007 4:04:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,"Tina
Deloia" writes:

So where do you purchase such strange cuts of meat?

>
>
Hi, Tina,

In addition to places that others have suggested, I've located a small,
privately run specialty food market that was only a few miles from me but I never
even knew was there, which has been my source for beef kidney and some cuts
of lamb. The only organ meat the grocery stores around me carry is liver, so
I was happy to find kidney. The only place I've found beef tongue is in
Wal-Mart, and I feed a good bit of that. My town (Louisville) has a number of
farmers' markets from spring until fall, and I've made a contact there for beef
heart that a feed a good bit of, and another contact raises rabbits. Also I
located an exotic pets shop that sells baby chicks to snake people. If I could
find a bait shop with whole fish I'd have happy kitties, as my cats love fish
but lately I have only found talapia that are whole and with heads, and they
sure did like the whole salmon I was able to get back in the spring!

Just look around wherever you can think--and some places that you don't
really think might surprise you.

Be forewarned--this business of hunting new foods for your pets can be a
little addictive. :)

Lynda

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: problem with pooped out bone
Posted by: "jmwise80" jmwise80@yahoo.com jmwise80
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:56 pm ((PDT))

Out of curiosity, what were you feeding when he had the bone
obstruction?

Michael Wise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "nat_franc" <chickenchucker@...>
wrote:
>
> history: atticus, 7mo boxer, had an acute attack of pancreatitis
and
> IBD compounded with a bone obstruction that required surgery 3 1/2
> weeks ago. i started to ease him back onto raw last night, double
> ground skinless leg quarters. he has eaten 4 meals of about half
> cooked bone in leg quarters and half ground raw. i was all happy
> because things were going well. well, tonight he did looser that
> usual poop FULL of ground bone pieces, now i am not worried about
the
> bone as i double ground it and the pieces were very small. and i
> added Prozyme to each meal he had. but that poop had a ton of bone
> in it, which means he is not digesting very well. the only
medication
> he is on is clindamyacine (sp?) supplements: fish oil, vit.E, ester
C,
> L-glutamine, and L-lysine, oh and benadryl and robitussin, for his
> allergies and bronchitis.
> help!
>
>
> natalie
>

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: introduced pork today...question
Posted by: "lar07911" lar07911@yahoo.com lar07911
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:58 pm ((PDT))

should say 2pm.

Sorry about that!

Laura

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: I need to find a Holistic Vet in the Dallas area....
Posted by: "Pamela Picard" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:18 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "coriowen" <COwen98@...> wrote:
>
> I actually live SE of Dallas, out near Canton. If anyone knows of one
> closer to Rockwall, or Mesquite or one that is in the Easern side of
> Dallas, I would really appreciate the recommendation. I found a site
> to check for holistic vets in different states/cities and not many came
> up, so I thought I would ask. I would like a vet that will accept a
> Raw Fed dog and doesn't try to lecture you about the dog being fed
>
> Cori
>
***

Dr. Charles Vandermause recommends raw feeding, offers Chinese
medicine, acupuncture as well as conventional veterinary diagnostic
and surgical services.

Crystal Mountain Animal Hospital
Harmonizing Eastern and Western Medicine
8947 Bee Caves Road, Suite 206
Austin, Texas 78746
Phone: 512-263-2900
FAX: 512-263-8399

To far from Dallas, but call. Maybe he can refer you to a colleague in
your area.

It took me a loooooong time to find him; so define what services you
need and don't give up.

Pamela Picard
http://www.pet-wellness-update.com
http://aimees-law.blogspot.com/
aimees_law-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

***Sign the petition***
Exempt Sick & Senior Pets from Rabies Shots
http://www.petitiononline.com/tdsh2007/petition.html

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: I need to find a Holistic Vet in the Dallas area....
Posted by: "Sarra" wildlycrafty@gmail.com sarradee
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:55 am ((PDT))

coriowen wrote:
> I actually live SE of Dallas, out near Canton. If anyone knows of one
> closer to Rockwall, or Mesquite or one that is in the Easern side of
> Dallas, I would really appreciate the recommendation.

I don't have any personal experience with any of the vets on this list.

http://www.dogpack.com/directory/DFWHolisticVets.html

Sarra

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

5c. Re: I need to find a Holistic Vet in the Dallas area....
Posted by: "Katie" kcrockett@mac.com kcrockettla7
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:56 am ((PDT))

My vet is in Plano - slightly north of Dallas. She is not a proponent of a raw diet, but doesn't
give me grief about it either. (And she is AWESOME!!!) However - she has a vet that works
with her who is a holistic vet, I believe. I'm not sure she embraces a prey model, but she
might be worth talking to. E-mail me off list and I'll give you her info.

...katie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Pamela Picard" <pet.wellness@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "coriowen" <COwen98@> wrote:
> >
> > I actually live SE of Dallas, out near Canton. If anyone knows of one
> > closer to Rockwall, or Mesquite or one that is in the Easern side of
> > Dallas, I would really appreciate the recommendation.

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

5d. Re: I need to find a Holistic Vet in the Dallas area....
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:57 am ((PDT))

Pamela,
I sure do appreciate Dr. V.'s name and number. My parents live down
in Georgetown but still a looong drive for us. I will call tomorrow
and see if they have any recommendations here in the Dallas area for
me. I need one soon. I have to have my youngest spayed, ASAP.
Cori
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "coriowen" <COwen98@> wrote:
> >
> > I actually live SE of Dallas, out near Canton. If anyone knows
of one
> > closer to Rockwall, or Mesquite or one that is in the Easern side
of
> > Dallas, I would really appreciate the recommendation. I found a
site
> > to check for holistic vets in different states/cities and not
many came
> > up, so I thought I would ask. I would like a vet that will
accept a
> > Raw Fed dog and doesn't try to lecture you about the dog being
fed
> >
> > Cori
> >
> ***
>
> Dr. Charles Vandermause recommends raw feeding, offers Chinese
> medicine, acupuncture as well as conventional veterinary diagnostic
> and surgical services.
>
> Crystal Mountain Animal Hospital
> Harmonizing Eastern and Western Medicine
> 8947 Bee Caves Road, Suite 206
> Austin, Texas 78746
> Phone: 512-263-2900
> FAX: 512-263-8399
>
> To far from Dallas, but call. Maybe he can refer you to a colleague
in
> your area.
>
> It took me a loooooong time to find him; so define what services you
> need and don't give up.
>
> Pamela Picard
> http://www.pet-wellness-update.com
> http://aimees-law.blogspot.com/
> aimees_law-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> ***Sign the petition***
> Exempt Sick & Senior Pets from Rabies Shots
> http://www.petitiononline.com/tdsh2007/petition.html
>

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6. Need help! Tartar build-up
Posted by: "cris_milam" cmilam@comcast.net cris_milam
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:55 am ((PDT))

Duncan, our greyhound, has been on raw since December. He came to
us in late November having had a dental -- not a very thorough one,
but one that was okay. My problem is that he is building up tartar
on his teeth. I need help coming up with some foods that will help
do a better job of cleaning his teeth than what I am currently
feeding him.

The core of Duncan's diet is a mix of turkey necks, chicken, beef
heart, pork (more often boneless or nearly so than not), and liver.
He also gets bear necks, steaks, turkey, and lamb from time to
time. Other than the rare bear, I buy/order at the grocery store.
That means I don't have access to some of the wonderful chewy things
some of you get to feed. Hopefully that will change with hunting
season.

Duncan is a "no raw on my paws" eater, and uses his back molars
almost exclusively to chew/chomp. He is a slow and careful chewer
rather than a gulper. His incisors are pretty worn down and he
doesn't use his canines much at all to rip or tear. As a result,
his back molars look good while the molars to the front and the
canines look not so good.

Another peculiarity he has is that he can/will only eat about 1 1/2
pounds max at a time. He eats 3 pounds a day. He will walk away
from a large piece of meat like a pork picnic roast until he can
figure out how to get at it with his back molars.

There is nothing wrong with his teeth other than the tartar and the
worn incisors.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated. I love raw
feeding. Duncan is incredibly healthy and happy on it. I just feel
like a bad mommy for not being able to figure out how to keep his
teeth nice. Thanks for the help.

Cris M

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: My intro...
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:56 am ((PDT))

Valerie,

I used to be owned by a GP, as well. One thing I learned on this list
is that itchy skin is EXTERNAL, not caused (or relieved,)by something
internal. Food, in other words,will not likely help a skin allergy.
Feeding raw, of course, helps in many ways, so it is a worthwhile
endeavor.

Please see the archives for others who encountered equally awful
conditones, (or worse.) Many of them will attest to the difficulty
of 'hot spots,' etc., regardless of the food ingestion. Stress
management seems to nbe the best remedy on that account'

Best,
Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Valerie" <valdeere@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone! I just wanted to take a moment to introduce myself (I
> couldn't help but post a real message previously). My name is Val
and
> I own a nearly two year old Great Pyrenees male (Zuke) and a nearly
> one year old black lab-mix female (Louise).
>
> At about 7 months of age, my Pyrenees, Zuke came down with
> Panosteitis. >
> Valerie
>

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Pork Liver
Posted by: "Penelope Quillen" copperquillpen@hotmail.com copperquillpen1958
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:59 am ((PDT))

I was at the store earlier today. Got some flounder today. I saw in the
meat dept., a package of raw pork liver. Is this the same as beef & chicken
livers, or should I just stick to chicken & beef? Penelope


.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9. Big chunks of food - when do I take it away?
Posted by: "trayck" trayck@yahoo.com trayck
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:04 am ((PDT))

Hi group,

I have a 15kg (33lb) male Beagle and a 9kg (20lb)female Welsh Terrier.

I have been feeding raw for a while now but have not been feeding
large pieces.I have been feeding medium size chunks (roughly fist
size) of kangaroo and beef, chicken wings, whole lamb shanks, turkey
necks and heart/liver/kidney and pilchards. I have been feeding them
approx 250-300g (1/2 lb) a day each. I feed once a day in the morning.

The beagle is a foodaholic and scoffs down anything and everything as
quickly as he can with as little chewing as possible while the
welshie takes her time and chews stuff for a bit first.

I want to try and feed chunks that are larger than my dogs head so
that they have to rip and tear the meat off. But if I go out and buy
a huge chunk of something and give it to them, the beagle will scoff
down as much as he can and be almost ready to explode, while the
welshie will have had a bit to eat but be looking for somewhere to
hide the rest to eat later on in the day (as she sometimes does this
with her lamb shanks)

So if I take it away after 15 mins then present it the next day I am
going to end up with a bulemic beagle and an annorexic welshie (but
without the purging)by the end of the week.

My question is:

How do I regulate how much they eat per day so they don't end up too
fat or skinny as I want to try and maintain the 2 - 3 % of bodyweight
I am feeding per day?

Also any suggestions on what to give to the dogs to help decrease the
stinky air bombs that sometimes occur?

Sorry this ended up a long post

Thanks

Tracey S.
Brisbane, Australia

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10. obstruction?
Posted by: "tinamdeloia" tinamdeloia@yahoo.com tinamdeloia
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:08 am ((PDT))

Wait, what, obstruction. what do you mean a bowel obstruction? i
thought they digested what they ate. bones and all. you mean the bone
comes out somewhat whole and can get stuck? certain bones, all bones.
i'm very worried about this. any insight?

Tina

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------