[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12428
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Grant is Sick: Diagnosis Pancreatitis
From: Cdandp2@aol.com
1b. Re: Grant is Sick: Diagnosis Pancreatitis
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: Grant is Sick: Diagnosis Pancreatitis
From: donna
1d. Re: Grant is Sick: Diagnosis Pancreatitis
From: Patty Linden
1e. Re: Grant is Sick: Diagnosis Pancreatitis
From: Dawn Ruhl
2. Real poodles eat RMB!
From: marge
3a. Re: How much poop should I expect?
From: Kelly
3b. Re: How much poop should I expect?
From: eventer2001
3c. Re: How much poop should I expect?
From: carnesbill
3d. Re: How much poop should I expect?
From: jennifer_hell
3e. Re: How much poop should I expect?
From: carnesbill
3f. Re: How much poop should I expect?
From: Tina Berry
4a. Re: ichy skin!
From: pfs.freedom
5a. Re: GI Normous Dogs
From: Shelly
6. Louie & Ash doing well
From: bekki1996
7a. Turkey backs
From: Alisha
7b. Re: Turkey backs
From: costrowski75
8a. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
From: Monica Hughes
8b. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
From: costrowski75
8c. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
From: cypressbunny
9a. new to the group and question
From: deb_earl_veil
9b. Re: new to the group and question
From: cypressbunny
10. Re: Dehydrated foods
From: Tracy Meal
11a. meal recipes
From: Gaye Amick
11b. Re: meal recipes
From: Sandee Lee
Messages
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1a. Grant is Sick: Diagnosis Pancreatitis
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:21 am ((PST))
p.s. I believe it's more the fat content than anything else. I don't
recall seeing anything against feeding raw.per se. And yuk to kibble.
Carol
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
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Messages in this topic (7)
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1b. Re: Grant is Sick: Diagnosis Pancreatitis
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:41 am ((PST))
"redraider_alh" <redraider_alh@...> wrote:
Now, I'm being told he'll more than likely
> need special "kibble" food and that our RAW feeding is to blame
since the bacteria on the
> food is what more than likely caused the overgrowth of the enzymes
in the pancreas.
*****
This is more about a vet recommending what he knows rather than what
is right. As others have have mentioned, the bacteria proposal is
booschwa. It is probably impossible to figure out what caused the
pancreas to become inflamed. A pancreas just doesn't go off and get
inflamed by itself. In an acute case (a "one off") the problem could
be excessive fat; it could also be stress. In chronic cases there
always is some underlying disease that sends the pancreas reeling.
To the best of your dog sitter's ability, your guy should be getting
lean and skinless raw meat and his meals should be small and
frequent, easily four times a day. Stick to chicken breasts and
maybe lean white-fleshed fish like pollock or whiting. If your
sitter's got access to Slippery Elm powder this will soothe your
dog's lower GIT.
Crap in a bag is all most vets understand about nutrition. When
faced with a crisis they rely on the lessons dogfood reps taught
them. No, commercial foodlike products are not more healthy.
They're not easier to digest and they're not better for a sick dog.
However you have to feed raw to ease the dog's discomfort, raw is
better. Sick food should not be fed to a sick dog.
Good luck and let us know what happens.
Chris O
Messages in this topic (7)
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1c. Re: Grant is Sick: Diagnosis Pancreatitis
Posted by: "donna" heartathome@att.net jubileeberry
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:33 am ((PST))
I just wanted to throw out some thoughts on this as i work with the
medical community a lot and know their tactics..
Often they just put facts together to create NEW facts that support
their own bias's... such as Bacteria on food MORE THAN LIKELY will
cause overgrowth THUS this is what caused THAT issue.. once this is
said there is no need to go searching further for what is really the
cause of this.. All these more than likelys simply let them off the
hook for further discussion and YOU the issue by feeding a raw diet...
Do demand they do some work.. show you proof... and research yourself...
As a homebirth midwife i tell my pregnant moms.. YOU are your babies
BEST caregiver !!! and i feel its true for our dogs.. I am my dogs
BEST caregiver..and i need to do the research on their health
donna
alabama
>So...the dilemma now--In the past, the staff at the clinic were
>unable to argue with our
>RAW feeding since my dogs are healthy, etc. Now, I'm being told
>he'll more than likely
>need special "kibble" food and that our RAW feeding is to blame
>since the bacteria on the
>food is what more than likely caused the overgrowth of the enzymes
>in the pancreas. In
>addition, the fat content of the raw feeding will more than likely
>cause problems in the
>future now that we have "pancreatic history."
>
>Now what? Anyone else with 'pancreatic' canine kids? And what are
>the truths to the
>whole RAW/pancreatic issues?
>
--
Namaste,
donna
)O(
Uppity Women Unite
Messages in this topic (7)
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1d. Re: Grant is Sick: Diagnosis Pancreatitis
Posted by: "Patty Linden" pattykat3@yahoo.com pattykat3
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:42 am ((PST))
Dear Abbey,
I am not an expert--have only been raw feeding for 3 months--but, felt I needed to "add my 2 cents" here. My little pom was diagnosed with pancreatitis 3 times since I adopted him 4 years ago. He was prescribed a diet of Hill's Science Diet "Duck formula" for the past two years (the vet said he was "allergic" to chicken, beef--all other "common" proteins). This last year, out of desperation (after being told --following another pancreatic episode--that he might have cancer of the liver, followed by an ultra-sound which showed a very healthy liver) I began reading about feeding raw food, and eventually found this wonderful site. I agree with Chris that pancreatitis can have many possible causes, but raw food--or the bacteria in raw food--certainly isn't one of them. I am so firmly convinced that eating raw food, along with the enzymes they contain (which, by the way takes the stress off of the dog's pancreas to produce enzymes) have saved my dog's life. Slippery
Elm Powder worked wonders for my dog. I would mix a little with some ground beef or turkey to make little "meatballs" and give these to him when his stomach seemed upset. Trimming the fat from the meat he eats has also worked well in preventing further digestive upsets. I hope this helps--
:-) Patty and Mica--a happy and healthy raw-fed dog
redraider_alh <redraider_alh@yahoo.com> wrote: Hello all,
It has been a while since I have posted or checked the groups discussions. I logged back
on today and searched the archives for information on pancreatitis.
.
---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (7)
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1e. Re: Grant is Sick: Diagnosis Pancreatitis
Posted by: "Dawn Ruhl" Dawnofthedanes@mac.com dawnofthedanes
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:42 am ((PST))
Had a rescue come in with Pancreatitis...
Of course I switched him to raw immediately AFTER I fasted him.
For 2 days all he got was raw honey in his water and no food. He really
wasn't interested in food until the morning after the fast. The
quickest way
to bring a pancreas back to normal is to fast the dog IF it is in
decent weight.
Works for humans too. <G>
That is all you have to do. Might try fasting for 2 days a week
instead of one.
Works every time.
Dawn
Re: Grant is Sick: Diagnosis Pancreatitis
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:21 pm (PST)
On Dec 27, 2007, at 8:31 PM, redraider_alh wrote:
>
> So...the dilemma now--In the past, the staff at the clinic were
> unable to argue with our
> RAW feeding since my dogs are healthy, etc. Now, I'm being told
> he'll more than likely
> need special "kibble" food and that our RAW feeding is to blame
> since the bacteria on the
> food is what more than likely caused the overgrowth of the enzymes
> in the pancreas. In
> addition, the fat content of the raw feeding will more than likely
> cause problems in the
> future now that we have "pancreatic history."
>
> Now what? Anyone else with 'pancreatic' canine kids? And what are
> the truths to the
> whole RAW/pancreatic issues?
There are degrees of pancreatitis; this could be just a transient
attack. In any case, rawfed pancreatitis dogs are numerous; it's
actually much healthier and better balanced, easier to control, and
free of all the unsuitable junk in the kibbles. The last thing you
want is carbs and cooked indigestible proteins.
So, basically, this is crap, and you can work with the diagnosis when
you get home. Tell the sitter to feed him lightly, and avoid really
fatty bits and skin on the chicken, for now. Oh, and the bacteria on
the food cause NOTHING; you already realize that a dog's mouth
encounters far more in every block than in any number of raw dinners.
A lot of spin goes into those articles online.....
ginny and Tomo
All stunts performed without a net!
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~;*;~ Dawn Ruhl ~;*;~
Blessed are those who can give without remembering
And take without forgetting.
http://www.nytimes. com/2007/ 09/02/magazine/ 02pet-t.html? _r=2&th=&
adxnnl=1& oref=slogin& emc=th&pagewante d=print&adxnnlx= 1188793290-
xmyTCNndRf/ R+LVrlJFyLQ
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Messages in this topic (7)
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2. Real poodles eat RMB!
Posted by: "marge" marge_moriarty17551@yahoo.com marge_moriarty17551
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:40 am ((PST))
Well, am I a proud mama! People think poodles are light weights..huh!
They should come to my house at meal time. As some of you know I have
only been doing this about three weeks. Yesterday I struck gold at the
market with a huge pork shoulder for .89#. I cut it all up for the
little guys and did the freezer thing. I separated the big shoulder
bone in two and let the guys clean them off for breakfast. What
pleasure to watch! I liken it to a father watching his son play his
first game of tackle football...ahhh the pride. Here are these two
little mini poos ....acting like REAL dogs!...Like manly men!!!! LOL
I knew only you other rawfeeders could truly relate.
Marge
Messages in this topic (1)
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3a. Re: How much poop should I expect?
Posted by: "Kelly" kpetska@mgmmirage.com kpet1218
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:42 am ((PST))
> > So, how often do your dogs poop?
>
> Usually once a day. Some days, not at all. Very rarely 2 times a
> day.
Same for mine, once a day and some days not at all. (3 lb Chihuahua)
I had the same concern when I started about a month ago.
Kelly
Messages in this topic (9)
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3b. Re: How much poop should I expect?
Posted by: "eventer2001" eventer2001@yahoo.com eventer2001
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:32 am ((PST))
>> Usually once a day. Some days, not at all. Very rarely 2 times a
>> day.
>
>Same for mine, once a day and some days not at all. (3 lb Chihuahua)
>I had the same concern when I started about a month ago.
So if they're pooping more than that? Is that bad? I don't think I ever paid attention when I had my old guy, but the pup is still pooping a couple times/day.
Tammy
& Reilly
Dayton, ohio
---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (9)
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3c. Re: How much poop should I expect?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:45 am ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, eventer2001 <eventer2001@...>
wrote:
>
> So if they're pooping more than that? Is that bad?
No, they will poop the amount they need to poop. Don't worry about
it. Poop consistancy can give you a little information but other
than that, don't worry about it.
> I don't think I ever paid attention when I had my old guy, but
> the pup is still pooping a couple times/day.
Don't worry about it. Just as human babies poop several times a
day, so do dog babies.
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (9)
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3d. Re: How much poop should I expect?
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:47 am ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
> No, they will poop the amount they need to poop. Don't worry about
> it. Poop consistancy can give you a little information but other
> than that, don't worry about it.
>
I agree. My girl poops more on raw than she did on super premium
k*bble (she used to poop once a day, sometimes twice, small amount,
now she always poops twice and a slightly bigger amount).
As long as the dog enjoys her food and looks fine, everything's dandy. =D
Jennifer
Messages in this topic (9)
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3e. Re: How much poop should I expect?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:57 pm ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jennifer_hell"
<jenniferhell@...> wrote:
>
> I agree. My girl poops more on raw than she did on super premium
> k*bble
Jennifer,
That doesn't make sense to me. There is a lot more indigestable
stuff in kibble(no matter how good) than there is in meat, bones,
and organs. Are you feeding veggies? I'm not arguing, just trying
to figure out how that could be.
> As long as the dog enjoys her food and looks fine,
> everything's dandy. =D
Exactly right. :) :) :)
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (9)
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3f. Re: How much poop should I expect?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:05 pm ((PST))
"My girl poops more on raw than she did on super premium k*bble "
Then you could be over feeding. My 4 gsds poop a small amount once a day,
sometimes everyother day. If my husband feeds them with out telling me and
then I feed them again, they are pooping machines.
But if they get their 1.25 lbs daily of 100% deer meat, a daily egg and fish
oil, they never poop more than once a day. My one female goes avg
everyother day.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com
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Messages in this topic (9)
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4a. Re: ichy skin!
Posted by: "pfs.freedom" staylor@chjinc.com pfs.freedom
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:44 am ((PST))
thanks yassy, i will check out the label on my chicken. I got him
almost 2 weeks ago and he has been eating raw since then. I know the
breeder was feeding "puppy food" though before I got him so I thought
maybe the loose poo was the "bad" stuff from the kibble working its
way out. kind of detoxing maybe. I will try feeding him more bone and
hopefully that clears up the poo problem.
shannon & brody
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
it is possible that since poultry is high in omega 6,the dog needed
more omega 3 in diet. Or chicken you got was enhanced someway and
that may triggered loose poo or itchness.Try reading the label.Small
letters. It should say solution or enhancement if they did and if
not,it should say retaining water x% in it.
yassy
Messages in this topic (8)
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5a. Re: GI Normous Dogs
Posted by: "Shelly" stuartjlittle@verizon.net stuartjeanlittle
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:31 am ((PST))
A few years ago I had a problem with my border collie getting fat, even though
she is extremely active and didn't eat more than she should. Found out it
was the cat litter (not just the cat poo) she was eating! (World's Best Cat
Litter - it's made of corn!)
We fixed that problem (denied access to the litter box) and the fat problem
went away!
Shelly
Messages in this topic (13)
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6. Louie & Ash doing well
Posted by: "bekki1996" pasha15@hotmail.co.uk bekki1996
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:34 am ((PST))
Just a note to say thanks to everyone in the group for some great
advice in new and old posts.
Louie and ash are now in to there fourth week of raw diet and things
are going really well. louie is 2 a gsd pointer x, he suffered with
stomach problems on the dreaded kibble with very soft stools usually
going 6 to 7 times on his long walk, he was very skinny, ribs and
shoulder bones sticking out and very hyper. he has finally started to
put some weight on and has started to calm down. training has become so
much easier. ash is a 9 month old heinz 57 and doing very well on the
diet as well. she is the more adventurous of the 2 and is happy to try
anything we give her.after a good start on chicken we introduced pork
this week and a little kidney. lamb will be next on the list!!
once again thanks to everyone.
Bekki
Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. Turkey backs
Posted by: "Alisha" charlieschoicetreatco@yahoo.ca charlieschoicetreatco
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:34 am ((PST))
Hi all,
I picked up some turkey backs dirt cheap yesterday but after looking at
them I am not sure about feeding them...I do feed turkey necks...and
chicken backs.....
Have any of you ever fed turkey backs?
Thanks,
Alisha J.
Messages in this topic (12)
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7b. Re: Turkey backs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:51 am ((PST))
"Alisha" <charlieschoicetreatco@...> wrote:
>\> Have any of you ever fed turkey backs?
*****
I do not feed chicken necks to my dogs, I feed chicken backs only to
add bone to meaty meals; and I don't feed turkey backs any more.
For years I could get whole backs (2-3 pounds a piece) and while quite
bony they were great workouts for my retrievers and boy were they
cheap. Then the store stopped selling them (boo hiss) and that was
that.
If you can, feed the turkey backs whole. Sliced, they are far too
tempting to swallow as is unless your dogs have exquisite manners. And
plan to add meat to the meal or to feed plenty of boneless meals
afterwards and even beforehand.
Chris O
Messages in this topic (12)
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8a. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
Posted by: "Monica Hughes" monicabeth10@yahoo.com monicabeth10
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:45 am ((PST))
That's interesting. I noticed after feeding my cat raw for months that her fur became much more silky. So I wonder if the raw diet results in less shedding and a reduction in dander.
Monica
---------------------------------
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8b. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:17 am ((PST))
Monica Hughes <monicabeth10@...> wrote:
So I wonder if the raw diet results in less shedding and a reduction in
dander.
*****
Less shedding and dander related to poor diet yes. My guess is a
healthy and appropriate amount of shedding and dander can be
significantly less than what one comes to expect from an unhealthy
dog. But it's not going to go away, and issues other than diet also
affect skin and coat condition.
Chris O
Messages in this topic (13)
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8c. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:33 am ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Alexis" <alexis78@...> wrote:
>
> Please continue with the input if
> you know this to be a helpful solution. Thanks for the feedback!
*** People that are allergic to dogs often comment that my dogs don't
bother them. My sister-in-law is allergic to cats, but she can spend
several hours at my house before she starts to have symptoms. With
other cats symptoms begin immediately. A friend of mine was
considering rehoming her new cat because her young daughter couldn't
stand to be near him. She switched the cat to raw and the girl's
symptoms disappeared. Now they have 3 rawfed cats and the girl is
still symptom-free.
*** I don't think it is reduced dander or shedding, I think it is
mainly due to eliminating the crap in kibble and having a healthier
animal. As Ginny pointed out, of course, it is the bf's broken immune
system that is reacting to the dog. Switching the dog to raw might
eliminate the particular symptoms associated with the dog, but it
won't change the bf's underlying problem.
--Carrie
Messages in this topic (13)
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9a. new to the group and question
Posted by: "deb_earl_veil" deb_earl_veil@yahoo.com deb_earl_veil
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:08 am ((PST))
HI,
first let me introduce ourselves and our heard. Earl and I have been
married for 4 years, he is in the Navy as well as my daughter who is
currently in BAhrain./ We own 3 wonderful dogs, Zeus 13mths and
Aphrodite 8 months, whom are both Cane Corso Mastiff's. We also have
Princess whom is a lab/irish setter mix and 15months. I have been
working on her as a mobility assistance dog for my due to haveing RSD
in my legs. WHen we first got Princess, we were told she was fixed.
Well, in late September, we found her one morning tied with Zeus.
SUPRISE she delivered 13 beautiful pups on Dec. 2nd. Even though I
suplimented with bottle, she began refusing to feed them 2 days ago.
Our vet has checked everyone all are doing well but still have consern
with our runt, who I have named Venus. We did start them 2 weeks ago
on food mixing Bravo's chicken blend with goats milk. Now, because
princess is just so raw, we p;aced her on antibiotics and said no more
nursing. my question is, I know need to feed them 5=6 times a day but
how much should they be taking in? all are peeing and pooping well
with no problems. Mom is 3 lbs below her pre pregnancy weight but
still very healthy as are Zeus and Aphrodite. WE out all of them on
the BARF (eve before were feeding them grain free kibble) nothing but
raw. The largest pup is 3 1/2lbs and the smallest is 1 1/4. Any
suggestions would really be appreciated as this is the first time
dealing with puppies and weaning for us. Oh we do also have a cat
Thor, who also is on raw.
Blessed Be
Deb and Earl
Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: new to the group and question
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:48 am ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "deb_earl_veil" <deb_earl_veil@...>
wrote:
>
> my question is, I know need to feed them 5=6 times a day but
> how much should they be taking in?
*** 13 pups?!! No wonder mom is worn out.
*** At almost 4 weeks of age, they probably don't need to eat 6 times a
day. 4-5 times a day is probably fine. For liquids, a starting guide is
2 tablespoons per 4 oz body weight. For solid foods, a starting guide
is 10% of the pup's bodyweight per day. So, a 3 pound puppy should eat
a little over an ounce of food per feeding. It depends a lot of the
individual puppy, though. Some might need more, some less. It also
varies over time. If they are active and playing and pooping and
peeing, sounds like they are doing fine. I feed puppies all they want
to eat. If they start to get a little chubby, that tells me it is time
to reduce the number of feedings per day.
--Carrie
Messages in this topic (2)
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10. Re: Dehydrated foods
Posted by: "Tracy Meal" hiddenpoetinme1@yahoo.com hiddenpoetinme1
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:42 am ((PST))
Hi Tammy,
I use dehydrated chicken and beef liver for treats all the time. I prefer to do it myself rather than buy them, it is cheaper and I know that they are healthier. My dogs will not eat raw chicken liver otherwise but they beg for the dried stuff. It is an easy way to get the liver into them.
Tracy
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11a. meal recipes
Posted by: "Gaye Amick" northernskychar@netzero.com northernskyacademy
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:38 pm ((PST))
I'm still gather information and would like to get some basic meal
ideas. Not so much amounts as contents.
Chicken, beef, organs etc. Chicken one meal, Beef the next???? Are
veggies added to each meat meal or is it a seperate meal???
The only thing I THINK I know is organ meat is only given once maybe
twice a week. Correct???
Gaye
Messages in this topic (2)
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11b. Re: meal recipes
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:42 pm ((PST))
Gaye,
If you are just beginning, best to stick with one protein source until they
have adjusted to digesting this new food. Then you can start adding in bits
of organs and small amounts of beef, pork, turkey, fish, lamb....whatever
you have available.
Overall the diet is going to consist of lots and lots of red meat (up to
80%), 10% edible bones and 10% organs. No veggies!
Sandee & the Dane Gang
From: "Gaye Amick" <northernskychar@netzero.com>
I'm still gather information and would like to get some basic meal
ideas. Not so much amounts as contents.
Chicken, beef, organs etc. Chicken one meal, Beef the next???? Are
veggies added to each meat meal or is it a seperate meal???
The only thing I THINK I know is organ meat is only given once maybe
twice a week. Correct???
Messages in this topic (2)
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posted by Feed Pets Raw Food @ 1:42 PM
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