Feed Pets Raw Food: Dec 1, 2007

Saturday, December 1, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12337

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. tuna?
From: wOuLdN"t YoU LiKe To KnOw
1b. Re: tuna?
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: tuna?
From: Yasuko herron

2a. Re: Blood in the stool
From: m td

3a. Heartworm tx and raw
From: Lori Leonhardt
3b. Re: Heartworm tx and raw
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: Chris... no intestines?
From: costrowski75
4b. Re: Chris... no intestines?
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski

5a. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
From: Sandee Lee

6a. mixing liver and ground beef
From: patti.h310
6b. Re: mixing liver and ground beef
From: katkellm

7. Question about freezer burned meat.
From: Anndrea

8a. Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
From: suburbancow
8b. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
From: katkellm
8c. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
From: Yasuko herron
8d. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
From: krheintgen
8e. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
From: ..... .....

9a. will too much bone cause the runs?
From: eyed_blue
9b. will too much bone cause the runs?
From: blue eyed
9c. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
From: blue eyed

10a. parvo - advice needed
From: kit2132a@cox.net
10b. Re: parvo - advice needed
From: carnesbill
10c. Re: parvo - advice needed
From: Alison Maffett
10d. Re: parvo - advice needed
From: costrowski75

11a. Re: certain meats cause panting
From: Susan Fortune

Messages
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1a. tuna?
Posted by: "wOuLdN"t YoU LiKe To KnOw" laurasue17@hotmail.com angel_2_u_23
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 10:50 am ((PST))

Can you feed canned tuna fish? Just wondering. If so, is there a specific kind? I am just wondering because I cannot get my Snoopy dog to eat any fish at all. Thought maybe he would like tuna.
Laura
Mom to furbabies: Snoopy (male - neutered -14 month old - loved mutt - 60lbs.) and Zoey (female - spayed - 9 month old - loved mutt - 50lbs.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: tuna?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 11:23 am ((PST))

"wOuLdN\"t YoU LiKe To KnOw" <laurasue17@...> wrote:
>
> Can you feed canned tuna fish? Just wondering. If so, is there a
specific kind? I am just wondering because I cannot get my Snoopy
dog to eat any fish at all. Thought maybe he would like tuna.
*****
Sure, as protein variety it's not necessarily any worse than feeding
any other cooked fish. It isn't a notable source of Omega 3 though
and albacore is considered a high mercury fish. Since fish is not a
required food, I don't think you need to be worried about the lack of
it.

But if you are thinking tuna for protein variety, an occasional meal
isn't the end of the world, no. I recommend you go for the cheapest,
darkest tuna you can find. Chunk light will be healthier than solid
albacore; if there's a lesser quantity than chunk light, get that.

Also consider that water pack tuna is healthier than oil
or "vegetable broth" pack, since both the oil and the "vegetable"
will be soy. If your dog has itchy-scratchy problems, soy can make
things worse.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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1c. Re: tuna?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 12:12 pm ((PST))

> I am just wondering because I cannot get my Snoopy dog to eat any fish at all.

Hi.If you are thinking about feeding canned fish now and then,try Jack Mackerral or salomon or sardine packed in water in a can.

They have more omega 3 than Tuna,and my dog loves those. Mackerral seems to be drool-worthy fish for palette.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Blood in the stool
Posted by: "m td" mtd885@yahoo.com mtd885
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 10:50 am ((PST))

Thanks for you replies. There's not a lot of blood
maybe a teaspoon at most and it's not with every
stool. It's bright red c/w some kind of fresh bleed.
She's still in no distress and continues to feed well.
Thanks again...m&abby

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Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Heartworm tx and raw
Posted by: "Lori Leonhardt" lorileonhardt@yahoo.com lorileonhardt
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 11:10 am ((PST))

i am about to take on a foster dog with a very high positive HW load. Has anyone had experience feeding raw to a high positive dog that will be undergoing tx? Of course a non-raw vet said no way as they can not handle the higher bacteria load. My thought was to get her on raw for about a month to build up the immune system before starting tx.

Lori Leonhardt
Catahoula United Rescue Society, Inc - CURS
Website: www.catahoulaunited.com

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Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Heartworm tx and raw
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 11:29 am ((PST))

Lori Leonhardt <lorileonhardt@...> wrote:>
> i am about to take on a foster dog with a very high positive HW load.
Has anyone had experience feeding raw to a high positive dog that will
be undergoing tx? Of course a non-raw vet said no way as they can not
handle the higher bacteria load. My thought was to get her on raw for
about a month to build up the immune system before starting tx.
*****
The advance raw may or may not build up her immune system in one month
(these things don't happen over night, nor is the immune system
modulated by diet alone) but since raw is easier to digest and is more
nutritious than anything your vet can offer, the dog should be on raw
simply because it's better for the dog.

Start her on raw as soon as you can.

And consider posting your situation to RawChat, where you might find
alternatives to the dogawful traditional treatment.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Chris... no intestines?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 11:13 am ((PST))

Mallory Kwiatkowski <m_k_jesusfreak3@...> wrote:
>
> they aren't really eating the CONTENTS of te intestines, they are
eating the lining. They actually go through the trouble of spilling the
contents out so they can eat just the lining.
> Mallory
*****
Actually, the process you describe best suits how the stomach is eaten,
not the intestines. The stomach tissue (the actual organ itself, not
its contents) may well be eaten after the digesta is scattered to the
four winds. Intestines maybe but after having looked at full
intestines of a larger ruminant, I'd say the contents are pretty darn
hard to shake out. If shaking out the stomach is like emptying a bag,
shaking out intestines would shaking out sausages. One is a quick,
easy job, the other is labor intensive. I suspect wolves would not
likely bother.

However, there's no question that lesser carnivores/scavengers would
find the process rewarding.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: Chris... no intestines?
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 2:05 pm ((PST))

sorry, i meant stomach contents. I was reading intestines, but thinking stomach, and well, i typed intestines.
mallory

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Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 11:53 am ((PST))

The "yummies" aren't the intestines...they go for the meat and then organs.

L David Mech "The Wolf: The Ecology and Behaviour of an Endangered
Species"
University of Minnesota Press, Minneapolis, 1981. pp185-186

"The rump of a prey animal, which is the usual point of attack, is often
the
first part eaten.....The next parts of the carcass to be eaten are the
heart, lungs, liver and all other viscera except the stomach contents"

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Michelle R" <crested_dog8@yahoo.com>

> Ok, I'll bite, I have seen a few posts regarding the process question, and
they have said "no intestines" in regards to everything. When you watch wild
dogs, or the big cats take down a kill, the first thing they do is gut it
and eat the yummies......so why then is it suggested to not keep intestines
for the dogs?

Messages in this topic (6)
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6a. mixing liver and ground beef
Posted by: "patti.h310" patti.h310@yahoo.com patti.h310
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 12:12 pm ((PST))

My 50 pound Beardie will only eat liver (beef, calf or chix) if I
disguise it and mix it in ground beef. I puree the liver and freeze it
in one ounce ice cube trays for convenience. I give him one cube
(which is 1 ounce) and mix it into a 3 or 4 ounce beef pattie and top
it with a couple squrits of Grizzly Salmon Oil. At the same meal he'll
have a pork or lamb neck, chix leg or something else with bone. Is
this ok? How many meals during the week should be like this? Is that
enough organ meat for him? I can not find kidney or beef heart at any
stores either for added variety.

Patti

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: mixing liver and ground beef
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 3:29 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "patti.h310" <patti.h310@...> wrote:
>
> My 50 pound Beardie will only eat liver (beef, calf or chix) if I
> disguise it and mix it in ground beef. ....... Is
> this ok? How many meals during the week should be like this? Is that
> enough organ meat for him? I can not find kidney or beef heart at any
> stores either for added variety.
>
Hi Patti,
Here is my math attempt.:) If your dog eats 16oz a day, 10% or 1.6oz
should be organ meat. For math ease, lets say 2oz a day needs to be
organ meat, with 1/2 or 1 oz being liver. So, i would guess you need
to feed approximately one cube a day, or 7 cubes in one meal once per
week, or 14 cubes at one meal every other week, however it works out
best for you. Have you tried semi defrosting the liver cube and
shaving it into slices-kinda like Italian beef meat for sandwiches
looks- and feeding like a treat? My aussie will eat liver like this,
and i find it easier to take the time to feed her a little bit of
liver like this every other day rather than making a big deal out of
hiding the liver in food. Heart is fed as a muscle meat, not organ.
Have you looked at Wal-Mart, i don't know where you live, but
everybody seems to have one of them, because they usually carry
kidney where they keep tongue and sweetbreads and other ethnic type
meats. KathyM

Messages in this topic (2)
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7. Question about freezer burned meat.
Posted by: "Anndrea" anndreae@yahoo.com anndreae
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 12:12 pm ((PST))

Is there a limit to how long you can keep frozen meat and still be
able to feed it to your dogs?

Like, if I have a freezer full of meat, and it's all freezer burned,
and I keep it frozen solid for ten years, can I still feed it to my dogs?

Or is there something that eventually goes bad in it?

I'm not intentionally wanting to feed my dogs old meat, I am just
curious if I need to get rid of anything I have.

I'd like to know about fish, poultry, beef, venison, lamb, goat,
pretty much everything.

Thanks!

anndrea

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
Posted by: "suburbancow" lizzieodonnell@houston.rr.com suburbancow
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 12:22 pm ((PST))

I'm looking to buy whole rabbits, etc online but I am limited in my
links. I'm looking for a place in the USA but I already know of
rodentpro and hare-today. I'm looking for other options. Is there a
file here already? I looked there and didn't see one. Thanks in advance.

-Elizabeth O'D.

Messages in this topic (5)
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8b. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 2:05 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "suburbancow" <lizzieodonnell@...>
wrote:
>> I'm looking to buy whole rabbits, etc online but I am limited in my
> links.

Hi Elizabeth,

http://www.prey4pets.com/servlet/StoreFront

http://www.taylorpondfarms.com/

are two places that i have used and would recommend. KathyM

Messages in this topic (5)
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8c. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 2:05 pm ((PST))

>I'm looking to buy whole rabbits, etc online

If you are not living in KY,and if you order during cold months,then,you can order rabbits,buffalo ets at prey4pets.com (KY) without worrying about thawing. Ionce order item during July or something but since they did not use ice gelpak,meat was room tep or so and,I decided not to buy during hot/warm weather from them due to that reason. if weather was cold,then,I do not think we need to worry about such thing.

Also,try join in carnivor list andyou ask what you like to get and someone may reply to your request.

If you go to asian store,you maybe can find rabbit i think too.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (5)
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8d. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
Posted by: "krheintgen" krheintgen@comcast.net krheintgen
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 8:04 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "katkellm" <katkellm@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "suburbancow" <lizzieodonnell@>
> wrote:
> >> I'm looking to buy whole rabbits, etc online but I am limited in my
> > links.
>
> Hi Elizabeth,
>
> http://www.prey4pets.com/servlet/StoreFront
>
> http://www.taylorpondfarms.com/
>
> are two places that i have used and would recommend. KathyM
>
For those in the midwest and the delivery range of Taylor Pond Farms...
they now have what they are calling goat, lamb and mutton "chunks."
They just skin and gut the animals (intestines only removed) then
freeze the whole thing and cut it up into chunks with a saw. They are
sold in 5# bags --

Pretty cool way to do whole prey!! They are offered at a special price
in December.

Kathy R

Messages in this topic (5)
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8e. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
Posted by: "..... ....." lrosem3@yahoo.com lrosem3
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 8:05 pm ((PST))

i would recommend snrabbits.com
nice people to work with
Lynn
--- katkellm <katkellm@yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "suburbancow"
> <lizzieodonnell@...>
> wrote:
> >> I'm looking to buy whole rabbits, etc online but
> I am limited in my
> > links.
>
> Hi Elizabeth,
>
> http://www.prey4pets.com/servlet/StoreFront
>
> http://www.taylorpondfarms.com/
>
> are two places that i have used and would recommend.
> KathyM
>
>

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9a. will too much bone cause the runs?
Posted by: "eyed_blue" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 2:06 pm ((PST))

Hi, Heather, I just got your email and Im so glad you have cut out the
oats and veg, as I dont believe he needs them, definatley I think now
would be the time to feed tripe. Raw 'green' tripe (unprocessed)I
have had similar problems with my own pup and thats how I found out
about the diet that most people on this list are feeding by.ie no
grains, RMB'S...

Just remember (as you said)small and frequent meals, dont overload,
also start with very small amounts of tripe and build him up to more
and more slowly. Tripe in this form (unwashed)is usually very easy
for them to digest, and they love it! I would consider keeping him on
a few meals a day even once recovered if he is very sensitive.

Only introduce a new protein once he is ok on the first one (every
three days is what I done) The beauty of this diet is that if there is
a protein he does not do well on, at least you can pin point the cause.

Natalie

Messages in this topic (17)
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9b. will too much bone cause the runs?
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 2:06 pm ((PST))

PS dont go feeding him fatty foods as this is likley to cause the diahrea to return at this stage.
Natalie

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Messages in this topic (17)
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9c. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 2:06 pm ((PST))

Something else that I should have said as I have had the same problem in the past. I have found that if I dont give my dog a fast day once a week that he will get the runs and it will last for quite a while, cant get it sorted out for a week......

I think this is mother natures way of telling me that my dogs gut needs a rest! In the wild they often dont get the chance to eat the same amount of food each day....

When he has his fast day, he never gets any problems, seems to prevent any upset (and keeps his appetite up - which was almost non-existant in the past)

Natalie

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Messages in this topic (17)
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10a. parvo - advice needed
Posted by: "kit2132a@cox.net" kit2132a@cox.net pallas3
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 4:43 pm ((PST))

Hi all,

We just found out that my brother's girlfriend's 8 month old Doberman has
severe parvo. They are opting for emergency treatments, but we're not sure
if he'll survive.

My question is that my mother's 2 year old Doberman may have been exposed.
She had her full round of puppy shots, but has been vax free since. She's
been raw fed since we got her and has been very healthy.

Last night she did throw up a little, but has had no diarrhea, nor is she
running a fever. She ate her chicken this morning and was begging for scraps
at lunch. She has been a bit tired of late, but that could be due to a rainy
weather change or the fact that she's been going on bike rides and could be
sore.

We can't get her into our vet until Monday, but I'm scared that she might be
sick. Has anyone else had something like this or any advice to offer?

Thanks for any help!

Tracey

Phoenix, AZ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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10b. Re: parvo - advice needed
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 8:04 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, <kit2132a@...> wrote:
>
> My question is that my mother's 2 year old Doberman may have
> been exposed.
> She had her full round of puppy shots, but has been vax
> free since. She's
> been raw fed since we got her and has been very healthy.

She should be immune. Thats the purpose of puppy shots. If her
last shot was at 16 weeks or older, all should be ok. Keep us
posted.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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10c. Re: parvo - advice needed
Posted by: "Alison Maffett" sweettuth23@yahoo.com sweettuth23
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 8:06 pm ((PST))

Here is something that people use that is natural for parvo: http://www.ambertech.com/parvaid.php It's good to have on hand all the time for emergencies. Alison

----- Original Message ----

We can't get her into our vet until Monday, but I'm scared that she might be

sick. Has anyone else had something like this or any advice to offer?

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Messages in this topic (4)
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10d. Re: parvo - advice needed
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 8:15 pm ((PST))

Please take all parvo discussion to RawChat or DogHealth. The
Rawfeeding list is not the appropriate venue for it. Thank you.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (4)
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11a. Re: certain meats cause panting
Posted by: "Susan Fortune" desperatelyseekingsusan@cox.net cactususan
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 8:05 pm ((PST))

Rather than the KIND of meat, I would suspect the VOLUME thereof.
Just like after Thanksgiving dinner, when we loosen our drawers, lay on the couch, and breath shallowly & swear we'll never eat again.

When I feed chicken, the portions are controlled. When I feed turkey, the dogs just go for it. The Min-Pin has absolutely no restraint at all, and afterwards looks like a bloated sack of protoplasm...and he pants until his meal has settled, or he poops, which ever comes first.

He also has to work pretty hard for some of these meals, and that will cause some panting.

I'd venture that when you feed goat, perhaps you're throwing a hunk to them & they gorge. Could that be the reason?

Susan Fortune
Southern California

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12336

There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Having a Sheep Processed
From: sheepandakom
1b. Re: Having a Sheep Processed
From: merril Woolf

2a. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
From: sarahfalkner
2b. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
From: Shirley

3a. Freezing for two weeks for parasites.
From: Maria
3b. Re: Freezing for two weeks for parasites.
From: costrowski75

4a. Hallo everyone!
From: Annette
4b. Re: Hallo everyone!
From: costrowski75
4c. Re: Hallo everyone!
From: SLib700@aol.com

5. Something to give during birth....
From: Doguefan@aol.com

6a. meat being Processed- no intestines?
From: Michelle R
6b. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
From: costrowski75
6c. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
From: carnesbill
6d. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
From: Morledzep@aol.com
6e. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
From: Karen Oleson

7a. Re: certain meats cause panting
From: linoleum5017

8a. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
From: L.Tucker

9a. Chris... no intestines?
From: Michelle R
9b. Re: Chris... no intestines?
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski

10a. Blood in the stool
From: m td
10b. Re: Blood in the stool
From: Pauline Blondeau
10c. Re: Blood in the stool
From: Patti DeBono

Messages
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1a. Having a Sheep Processed
Posted by: "sheepandakom" sheepandakom@yahoo.com sheepandakom
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:20 pm ((PST))

I am looking to have a sheep butchered for the dogs. It's an older
sheep and while I love lamb, I'm not a big fan of mutton. So, I've
decided to have the entire sheep processed for the dogs. Up until
now, I've bought all the meat I feed, so I don't know exactly what to
tell the butcher to do. Has anyone had an animal processed with dogs
in mind? If so, how do you tell them to cut the meat? What should I
specifically ask to have saved for the dogs and what should I tell
them I don't want? Are there any concerns with the bones of an adult
(3 yrs) sheep being too much for the dogs?

Thanks!
Emily

Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: Having a Sheep Processed
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:20 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sheepandakom" <sheepandakom@...> wrote:
>
> I am looking to have a sheep butchered for the dogs. It's an older
> sheep and while I love lamb, I'm not a big fan of mutton. So, I've
> decided to have the entire sheep processed for the dogs. Up until
> now, I've bought all the meat I feed, so I don't know exactly what to
> tell the butcher to do. Has anyone had an animal processed with dogs
> in mind? If so, how do you tell them to cut the meat? What should I
> specifically ask to have saved for the dogs and what should I tell
> them I don't want? Are there any concerns with the bones of an adult
> (3 yrs) sheep being too much for the dogs?
>
> Thanks!
> Emily

Mutton makes for good stews etc. You might want to keep a few cuts for yourself.

Ask for everything except the intestines and hide. Nothing you can't use on a sheep.

I'm envious. Sheep is good food.

Merril

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
Posted by: "sarahfalkner" Sarah.Falkner@gmail.com sarahfalkner
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:54 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "marclre" <marclre@...> wrote:
>
> "Carrots don't contain sugar. I'm diabetic and they don't contain any carbohydrates to be
> counted into my diet."

Hi Evie, yes you are quite right you don't need to worry about (average servings of raw)
carrots for yourself, as a human diabetic, because:

"The glycemic index alone will not predict the impact on blood sugar of a food because it
does not consider the actual amount of carbohydrate in the food. In other words, even if
the carbohydrate from a food is absorbed very quickly it will not have a large affect on
blood sugar if the food does not contain much carbohydrate. For example, a carrot has a
high glycemic index (131%) but because the amount of actual carbohydrate in a ½ cup
serving of carrots is low (only 8 grams), the glycemic load or affect on blood sugar of the
carrots is low (10)."

From http://www.bu.edu/nfc/article_reducing.html

So you're right, it's a little more complicated than just "sugar" or "no sugar," but at any
rate, keep on eating and enjoying your carrots!

Regardless of glycemic load on human blood sugar, carbohydrates and plant-based foods
in a canine/feline carnivore's diet obviously have different effects than they do in a human
omnivore's... anyway, thought you might be interested in why YOU can still eat carrots
anyway!

All best,

Sarah, hominid
Henry & Ivan, felidae
Quercus & Ilex, mustelidae

Messages in this topic (11)
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2b. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
Posted by: "Shirley" ssthunderpony@yahoo.com ssthunderpony
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:38 pm ((PST))

>
> Getting off topic here; but felt I needed to comment. Carrots don't
> contain sugar.

########## WRONG-O
Carrots ,as any other thing that grows without a face or a Mommy are
a carbohydrate hence sugar ! There are only 3 true basic food groups
Protein, fat and carbhohydrates ( aka sugar)

HTH,
Shirley

Messages in this topic (11)
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3a. Freezing for two weeks for parasites.
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:55 pm ((PST))

Tomorrow marks Skip's first year with us. On Saturday the 17Th we got a
fresh (not the freshest, but it was whole roadkill) deer. I would like
to give Skip a big huge hunk in the morning but I butchered it the
night I got it so it was probably completely frozen on the next day, if
I thaw some Tonight it would have been frozen for 12 days total. Would
it still be OK? This is the first wild food that I've given except for
some other deer that someone had in there freezer for a year or two.
All the other meat that I've has been farm raised and dewormed or fed
DE.

Thank you!
Maria

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Freezing for two weeks for parasites.
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:49 pm ((PST))

"Maria" <plava_93@...> wrote:
On Saturday the 17Th we got a
> fresh (not the freshest, but it was whole roadkill) deer. I would
like
> to give Skip a big huge hunk in the morning but I butchered it the
> night I got it so it was probably completely frozen on the next day,
if
> I thaw some Tonight it would have been frozen for 12 days total.
Would
> it still be OK?
*****
If of those 12 days total the deer was frozen solid for a week, you're
good to go.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Hallo everyone!
Posted by: "Annette" SLib700@aol.com annettedeutsch
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:21 pm ((PST))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!

I'm new to this group,I got a longhaired dachshund and she weighs about
26 pounds and is 8 years old. I just got done reading a lot of archives
but so far I'm still not sure how much chicken for example I should
feed her to start with.I'd be grateful if I could find out
approximately how many ounces to give her.Thanks in advance! Annette.

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: Hallo everyone!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:55 pm ((PST))

"Annette" <SLib700@...> wrote:
>
I got a longhaired dachshund and she weighs about
> 26 pounds and is 8 years old. I just got done reading a lot of
archives
> but so far I'm still not sure how much chicken for example I should
> feed her to start with.
*****
Going by the numbers, a 26lb dog that looks good wearing those 26
pounds would likely eat between half a pound and three-quarters of a
pound of food a day, whatever you choose to feed, however you choose to
parcel it out.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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4c. Re: Hallo everyone!
Posted by: "SLib700@aol.com" SLib700@aol.com annettedeutsch
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:03 am ((PST))

Thanks Chris for that Info! Annette.

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5. Something to give during birth....
Posted by: "Doguefan@aol.com" Doguefan@aol.com knoxkennels
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:11 pm ((PST))

Hello everyone.? I have a DDB confirmed pregnant and she looks to have quite a few.? She is 4 1/2 weeks along and she is eating everything in sight!? I am going to let her continue to eat however she likes and we will see what she does with the bone towards the end.? Often, this breed requires a c-section because of the size of the puppies; but mostly because the size of the litters.? I am going to let her try on her own, and I will be ready to get her to a vet if problems seem to arise.? I have read on several species appropriate diet list that there are a few things that some give to the bitch during the whelping process and right after birth to help her keep her energy up.? Does anyone have any suggestions??
Any advice is much appreciated, I want to be as ready as I can be!

Chelsea
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6a. meat being Processed- no intestines?
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:19 pm ((PST))

Ok, I'll bite, I have seen a few posts regarding the process question, and they have said "no intestines" in regards to everything. When you watch wild dogs, or the big cats take down a kill, the first thing they do is gut it and eat the yummies......so why then is it suggested to not keep intestines for the dogs?
Just still trying to get this all right and organized in my brain. :-)

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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6b. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:09 pm ((PST))

Michelle R <crested_dog8@...> wrote:
>When you watch wild dogs, or the big cats take down a kill, the
first thing they do is gut it and eat the yummies......so why then is
it suggested to not keep intestines for the dogs?
*****
Um, have you actually seen this happen or are you reporting what
others say they have seen? I suspect you are drawing conclusions
based on what you think you see, rather than what is really going on.

While wolves (and big cats I guess, but I can't say for sure) are
likely to go in via the unprotected flesh of the underbelly, they are
not going for the intestines, nor even the stomach; they are going
for the liver and heart--and for the unprotected flesh. The
underbelly is the easiest access to the real "yummies", not just the
internal stuff that's closest.

I believe it was Dr. Mech who wrote that people often confuse the
belly with the stomach.

Smaller prey like rabbits and other small game and birds may be
completely eaten or may not; but it's a sure bet that the digestive
apparatus of small game is smaller and more easily eaten than the
digestive plumbing of large ruminants.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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6c. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:14 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Michelle R <crested_dog8@...> wrote:
>
> so why then is it suggested to not keep
> intestines for the dogs?
> Just still trying to get this all right and organized in my brain.

Yes, predators often open up the belly of the freshly killed prey
first. However what they are usually going for is liver, heart,
stomach, pancreas, etc. I don't think they eat the intestines.

I know when I feed my dogs whole rabbits or when they catch a rabbit,
the only reminants of meal is a small neatly stacked little ball of
intestines along with stomach contents strowed all about.

Its the same with my cats even with mice and rats. They don't eat the
stomach or intestines. Just a little pile of intestines and a stomach
laying beside it. I find these little reminants all the time around
my house both inside and out.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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6d. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:57 pm ((PST))

Yes, predators often open up the belly of the freshly killed prey
first. However what they are usually going for is liver, heart,
stomach, pancreas, etc. I don't think they eat the intestines.

***the reason wild wolves and other carnivorous predators open the stomach
first is because that is where the prey animal's hide is the softest and easiest
to rip open. NOT because the intestines, or organs are high priority items..

Catherine R.

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6e. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
Posted by: "Karen Oleson" olesoncrew@verizon.net flyballsanc
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 4:05 am ((PST))

I'm new to the list, and certainly don't want to step on any toes. I have just a wee bit of experience here that might shed some light.

Having worked 3 years during college on a kill-floor, having processed a few different species (beef, sheep, swine, deer, pheasant, and lots-o-chickens), having taken Meat Animal Science/ Food Safety courses I offer the following.

In my opinion there is nothing "wrong" with eating/saving the intestines. Inestines make fabulous meat casings when washed. Raw and unwashed they are full of bacteria, partially digested food, and porous. They can also be full of intestinal parasites. The alimentary canal (guts) are the first to be removed when eviscerating an animal. They are removed carefully so as not to contaminate the carcass with their contents. As time goes on, the intestines start to 'blow up' as the aerobic bacteria continue to create gases that now do not have a means to escape. The intestines are also very heavy. As college students, it could take 2 (sometimes 3) of us to lift the stomach of a cow into the ofal barrel. We, as consumers can purchase the contents of a rumen (part of the stomach of a rumanant) and feed it to our animals as tripe.

Personally, I would hesitate to ask for all of the intestines unless I was going to be right there grabbing them as they fell out. I would however consider asking for the rumen and it's contents......I'd supply the plastic lined box.

Respectfully,

Karen O

PS: When my dogs eat whole rabbit, they eat the WHOLE rabbit, head to tail, not even a hair left-over.

----- Original Message -----
From: Michelle R
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 10:34 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] meat being Processed- no intestines?

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds

http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

___________________________________

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Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. Re: certain meats cause panting
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:20 pm ((PST))

My dog has the same reaction, only it is to goat! It's not something
that can be fed in small portions, as a leg is a leg, a shoulder a
shoulder. I've just resolved not to buy any more. Pork though, gee,
it is indeed very cheap compared to everything else except chicken
where I come from. Maybe some tolerance could be built up?

If you find a solution, please do tell!
Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...>
wrote:
>
> I was wondering if ceratin foods, such as pork would make a dog hot
and panting. My dogs have been raw fed for almost a year now. Every
time I feed a pork shoulder the dogs pant all night long.

Messages in this topic (9)
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8a. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
Posted by: "L.Tucker" ltucker@sympatico.ca love_rescue_dogs
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:21 pm ((PST))

>
> > "We are still researching the best way to feed and I am
> awaiting the arrival of Susan Johnson's book because I
> suspect we may be feeding too many RMBs (turkey
> necks). Muscle meat seems to be a challenge for us as
> it is more expensive than RMBs and we are still not
> sure what cuts to give other than ground meat which
> apparently does not give enough of a workout so to
> speak."

We adopted our Greyhound in June and started feeding him RMB's shortly
thereafter. We live in Newmarket and lately I have found good deals on
Pork Picnic roasts and chicken legs with backs attached. Both at
$.99/lb. I also just ordered a case of human grade beef in strips
through the RawFeeding group on Yahoo at $1.33/lb. There was also
turkey meat at a very good price. I also watch the reduced counters
for any meat on sale. Price Chopper often reduces their meats at our
local store around Wednesdays.
I think our Grey does well with RMB's and tends towards looser pooh if
he doesn't get enough bone in his diet. I'd say chicken quarters &
legs with backs attached are his main dietary item and then roasts,
chicken backs, pork riblets, ground meat, turkey necks, raw tripe,
fish, etc...

Leanne Tucker
Newmarket, Ontario

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9a. Chris... no intestines?
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:58 pm ((PST))

Im reporting from what Ive seen on Animal Planet... :-) They always gut them and you see them dragging out long intestines and chomping...it most certainly seems a prize for them.

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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9b. Re: Chris... no intestines?
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 3:23 am ((PST))

they aren't really eating the CONTENTS of te intestines, they are eating the lining. They actually go through the trouble of spilling the contents out so they can eat just the lining.
Mallory

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10a. Blood in the stool
Posted by: "m td" mtd885@yahoo.com mtd885
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 4:39 am ((PST))

I've been feeding our 14 wk old Golden Doodle Raw for
two weeks now. She has been fine with all
chicken,turkey,pork,beef. I assumed her runny stool
was due to the switch from the breeders kibble however
I noticed blood in the runny stool and am concerned
for her health. She does not seem in any kind of
distress and continues to chow down everything I give
her. I do notice a significant decrease in stool
volume and water consumption since the switch as well.
Should I get her to a vet? What is the experience of
others in this situation. Thanks all Michael

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10b. Re: Blood in the stool
Posted by: "Pauline Blondeau" pblondeau46@gmail.com pblondeau46
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:03 am ((PST))

I would not be concerned with less stool. That is one of the perks of raw
feeding. The dogs absorb more of the nutrients and so less stool. That is
good!!! The other thing is that the meat itself supplies water to the dog so
that they don't have the need to drink so much. That will adjust in time. I
find the salty dog treats are when makes them drink more.

As for the bloody stool. I have seen the odd red in my dogs stool. It was in
my pup's stool when he first started raw. I think it was that he was not
used to digesting the raw and some of it was coming out the other end. I'm
not sure of that, but it was so small an amount not to be worried. It went
away on it's own.

How much blood are we talking here???

Pauline

On Dec 1, 2007 7:27 AM, m td <mtd885@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I've been feeding our 14 wk old Golden Doodle Raw for
> two weeks now. She has been fine with all
> chicken,turkey,pork,beef. I assumed her runny stool
> was due to the switch from the breeders kibble however
> I noticed blood in the runny stool and am concerned
> for her health. She does not seem in any kind of
> distress and continues to chow down everything I give
> her. I do notice a significant decrease in stool
> volume and water consumption since the switch as well.
> Should I get her to a vet? What is the experience of
> others in this situation. Thanks all Michael
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>

--
Pauline xo

Yiddish Proverb

"Don't be so humble - you are not that great."
Golda Meir (1898-1978) to a visiting diplomat

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Messages in this topic (3)
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10c. Re: Blood in the stool
Posted by: "Patti DeBono" debono_k9@yahoo.com debono_k9
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:03 am ((PST))

My German Shepherd used to have bloody stool when she got diarrhea because it was so intense that it irritated her intestines to the point of bleeding. That was when she was on kibble, since I switched to raw, I have not seen any blood in her stool. Blood in the stool can be nothing or a big problem. How much blood is in her stool? It could very easily be the big switch from raw to kibble is a lot on her little body. My dog would have very bloody stool, as well as just passing pure blood. Could she have been recently stressed? I know some dogs after a stressful event or change can have some blood in their stool.

Patti and Hailey

----- Original Message ----
From: m td <mtd885@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2007 7:27:14 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Blood in the stool

I've been feeding our 14 wk old Golden Doodle Raw for
two weeks now. She has been fine with all
chicken,turkey, pork,beef. I assumed her runny stool
was due to the switch from the breeders kibble however
I noticed blood in the runny stool and am concerned
for her health. She does not seem in any kind of
distress and continues to chow down everything I give
her. I do notice a significant decrease in stool
volume and water consumption since the switch as well.
Should I get her to a vet? What is the experience of
others in this situation. Thanks all Michael

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