[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12337
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. tuna?
From: wOuLdN"t YoU LiKe To KnOw
1b. Re: tuna?
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: tuna?
From: Yasuko herron
2a. Re: Blood in the stool
From: m td
3a. Heartworm tx and raw
From: Lori Leonhardt
3b. Re: Heartworm tx and raw
From: costrowski75
4a. Re: Chris... no intestines?
From: costrowski75
4b. Re: Chris... no intestines?
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski
5a. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
From: Sandee Lee
6a. mixing liver and ground beef
From: patti.h310
6b. Re: mixing liver and ground beef
From: katkellm
7. Question about freezer burned meat.
From: Anndrea
8a. Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
From: suburbancow
8b. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
From: katkellm
8c. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
From: Yasuko herron
8d. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
From: krheintgen
8e. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
From: ..... .....
9a. will too much bone cause the runs?
From: eyed_blue
9b. will too much bone cause the runs?
From: blue eyed
9c. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
From: blue eyed
10a. parvo - advice needed
From: kit2132a@cox.net
10b. Re: parvo - advice needed
From: carnesbill
10c. Re: parvo - advice needed
From: Alison Maffett
10d. Re: parvo - advice needed
From: costrowski75
11a. Re: certain meats cause panting
From: Susan Fortune
Messages
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1a. tuna?
Posted by: "wOuLdN"t YoU LiKe To KnOw" laurasue17@hotmail.com angel_2_u_23
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 10:50 am ((PST))
Can you feed canned tuna fish? Just wondering. If so, is there a specific kind? I am just wondering because I cannot get my Snoopy dog to eat any fish at all. Thought maybe he would like tuna.
Laura
Mom to furbabies: Snoopy (male - neutered -14 month old - loved mutt - 60lbs.) and Zoey (female - spayed - 9 month old - loved mutt - 50lbs.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: tuna?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 11:23 am ((PST))
"wOuLdN\"t YoU LiKe To KnOw" <laurasue17@...> wrote:
>
> Can you feed canned tuna fish? Just wondering. If so, is there a
specific kind? I am just wondering because I cannot get my Snoopy
dog to eat any fish at all. Thought maybe he would like tuna.
*****
Sure, as protein variety it's not necessarily any worse than feeding
any other cooked fish. It isn't a notable source of Omega 3 though
and albacore is considered a high mercury fish. Since fish is not a
required food, I don't think you need to be worried about the lack of
it.
But if you are thinking tuna for protein variety, an occasional meal
isn't the end of the world, no. I recommend you go for the cheapest,
darkest tuna you can find. Chunk light will be healthier than solid
albacore; if there's a lesser quantity than chunk light, get that.
Also consider that water pack tuna is healthier than oil
or "vegetable broth" pack, since both the oil and the "vegetable"
will be soy. If your dog has itchy-scratchy problems, soy can make
things worse.
Chris O
Messages in this topic (3)
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1c. Re: tuna?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 12:12 pm ((PST))
> I am just wondering because I cannot get my Snoopy dog to eat any fish at all.
Hi.If you are thinking about feeding canned fish now and then,try Jack Mackerral or salomon or sardine packed in water in a can.
They have more omega 3 than Tuna,and my dog loves those. Mackerral seems to be drool-worthy fish for palette.
yassy
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2a. Re: Blood in the stool
Posted by: "m td" mtd885@yahoo.com mtd885
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 10:50 am ((PST))
Thanks for you replies. There's not a lot of blood
maybe a teaspoon at most and it's not with every
stool. It's bright red c/w some kind of fresh bleed.
She's still in no distress and continues to feed well.
Thanks again...m&abby
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3a. Heartworm tx and raw
Posted by: "Lori Leonhardt" lorileonhardt@yahoo.com lorileonhardt
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 11:10 am ((PST))
i am about to take on a foster dog with a very high positive HW load. Has anyone had experience feeding raw to a high positive dog that will be undergoing tx? Of course a non-raw vet said no way as they can not handle the higher bacteria load. My thought was to get her on raw for about a month to build up the immune system before starting tx.
Lori Leonhardt
Catahoula United Rescue Society, Inc - CURS
Website: www.catahoulaunited.com
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3b. Re: Heartworm tx and raw
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 11:29 am ((PST))
Lori Leonhardt <lorileonhardt@...> wrote:>
> i am about to take on a foster dog with a very high positive HW load.
Has anyone had experience feeding raw to a high positive dog that will
be undergoing tx? Of course a non-raw vet said no way as they can not
handle the higher bacteria load. My thought was to get her on raw for
about a month to build up the immune system before starting tx.
*****
The advance raw may or may not build up her immune system in one month
(these things don't happen over night, nor is the immune system
modulated by diet alone) but since raw is easier to digest and is more
nutritious than anything your vet can offer, the dog should be on raw
simply because it's better for the dog.
Start her on raw as soon as you can.
And consider posting your situation to RawChat, where you might find
alternatives to the dogawful traditional treatment.
Chris O
Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Chris... no intestines?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 11:13 am ((PST))
Mallory Kwiatkowski <m_k_jesusfreak3@...> wrote:
>
> they aren't really eating the CONTENTS of te intestines, they are
eating the lining. They actually go through the trouble of spilling the
contents out so they can eat just the lining.
> Mallory
*****
Actually, the process you describe best suits how the stomach is eaten,
not the intestines. The stomach tissue (the actual organ itself, not
its contents) may well be eaten after the digesta is scattered to the
four winds. Intestines maybe but after having looked at full
intestines of a larger ruminant, I'd say the contents are pretty darn
hard to shake out. If shaking out the stomach is like emptying a bag,
shaking out intestines would shaking out sausages. One is a quick,
easy job, the other is labor intensive. I suspect wolves would not
likely bother.
However, there's no question that lesser carnivores/scavengers would
find the process rewarding.
Chris O
Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: Chris... no intestines?
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 2:05 pm ((PST))
sorry, i meant stomach contents. I was reading intestines, but thinking stomach, and well, i typed intestines.
mallory
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Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 11:53 am ((PST))
The "yummies" aren't the intestines...they go for the meat and then organs.
L David Mech "The Wolf: The Ecology and Behaviour of an Endangered
Species"
University of Minnesota Press, Minneapolis, 1981. pp185-186
"The rump of a prey animal, which is the usual point of attack, is often
the
first part eaten.....The next parts of the carcass to be eaten are the
heart, lungs, liver and all other viscera except the stomach contents"
Sandee & the Dane Gang
From: "Michelle R" <crested_dog8@yahoo.com>
> Ok, I'll bite, I have seen a few posts regarding the process question, and
they have said "no intestines" in regards to everything. When you watch wild
dogs, or the big cats take down a kill, the first thing they do is gut it
and eat the yummies......so why then is it suggested to not keep intestines
for the dogs?
Messages in this topic (6)
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6a. mixing liver and ground beef
Posted by: "patti.h310" patti.h310@yahoo.com patti.h310
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 12:12 pm ((PST))
My 50 pound Beardie will only eat liver (beef, calf or chix) if I
disguise it and mix it in ground beef. I puree the liver and freeze it
in one ounce ice cube trays for convenience. I give him one cube
(which is 1 ounce) and mix it into a 3 or 4 ounce beef pattie and top
it with a couple squrits of Grizzly Salmon Oil. At the same meal he'll
have a pork or lamb neck, chix leg or something else with bone. Is
this ok? How many meals during the week should be like this? Is that
enough organ meat for him? I can not find kidney or beef heart at any
stores either for added variety.
Patti
Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: mixing liver and ground beef
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 3:29 pm ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "patti.h310" <patti.h310@...> wrote:
>
> My 50 pound Beardie will only eat liver (beef, calf or chix) if I
> disguise it and mix it in ground beef. ....... Is
> this ok? How many meals during the week should be like this? Is that
> enough organ meat for him? I can not find kidney or beef heart at any
> stores either for added variety.
>
Hi Patti,
Here is my math attempt.:) If your dog eats 16oz a day, 10% or 1.6oz
should be organ meat. For math ease, lets say 2oz a day needs to be
organ meat, with 1/2 or 1 oz being liver. So, i would guess you need
to feed approximately one cube a day, or 7 cubes in one meal once per
week, or 14 cubes at one meal every other week, however it works out
best for you. Have you tried semi defrosting the liver cube and
shaving it into slices-kinda like Italian beef meat for sandwiches
looks- and feeding like a treat? My aussie will eat liver like this,
and i find it easier to take the time to feed her a little bit of
liver like this every other day rather than making a big deal out of
hiding the liver in food. Heart is fed as a muscle meat, not organ.
Have you looked at Wal-Mart, i don't know where you live, but
everybody seems to have one of them, because they usually carry
kidney where they keep tongue and sweetbreads and other ethnic type
meats. KathyM
Messages in this topic (2)
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7. Question about freezer burned meat.
Posted by: "Anndrea" anndreae@yahoo.com anndreae
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 12:12 pm ((PST))
Is there a limit to how long you can keep frozen meat and still be
able to feed it to your dogs?
Like, if I have a freezer full of meat, and it's all freezer burned,
and I keep it frozen solid for ten years, can I still feed it to my dogs?
Or is there something that eventually goes bad in it?
I'm not intentionally wanting to feed my dogs old meat, I am just
curious if I need to get rid of anything I have.
I'd like to know about fish, poultry, beef, venison, lamb, goat,
pretty much everything.
Thanks!
anndrea
Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
Posted by: "suburbancow" lizzieodonnell@houston.rr.com suburbancow
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 12:22 pm ((PST))
I'm looking to buy whole rabbits, etc online but I am limited in my
links. I'm looking for a place in the USA but I already know of
rodentpro and hare-today. I'm looking for other options. Is there a
file here already? I looked there and didn't see one. Thanks in advance.
-Elizabeth O'D.
Messages in this topic (5)
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8b. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 2:05 pm ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "suburbancow" <lizzieodonnell@...>
wrote:
>> I'm looking to buy whole rabbits, etc online but I am limited in my
> links.
Hi Elizabeth,
http://www.prey4pets.com/servlet/StoreFront
http://www.taylorpondfarms.com/
are two places that i have used and would recommend. KathyM
Messages in this topic (5)
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8c. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 2:05 pm ((PST))
>I'm looking to buy whole rabbits, etc online
If you are not living in KY,and if you order during cold months,then,you can order rabbits,buffalo ets at prey4pets.com (KY) without worrying about thawing. Ionce order item during July or something but since they did not use ice gelpak,meat was room tep or so and,I decided not to buy during hot/warm weather from them due to that reason. if weather was cold,then,I do not think we need to worry about such thing.
Also,try join in carnivor list andyou ask what you like to get and someone may reply to your request.
If you go to asian store,you maybe can find rabbit i think too.
yassy
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8d. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
Posted by: "krheintgen" krheintgen@comcast.net krheintgen
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 8:04 pm ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "katkellm" <katkellm@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "suburbancow" <lizzieodonnell@>
> wrote:
> >> I'm looking to buy whole rabbits, etc online but I am limited in my
> > links.
>
> Hi Elizabeth,
>
> http://www.prey4pets.com/servlet/StoreFront
>
> http://www.taylorpondfarms.com/
>
> are two places that i have used and would recommend. KathyM
>
For those in the midwest and the delivery range of Taylor Pond Farms...
they now have what they are calling goat, lamb and mutton "chunks."
They just skin and gut the animals (intestines only removed) then
freeze the whole thing and cut it up into chunks with a saw. They are
sold in 5# bags --
Pretty cool way to do whole prey!! They are offered at a special price
in December.
Kathy R
Messages in this topic (5)
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8e. Re: Is there a file that shows where you can buy prey online?
Posted by: "..... ....." lrosem3@yahoo.com lrosem3
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 8:05 pm ((PST))
i would recommend snrabbits.com
nice people to work with
Lynn
--- katkellm <katkellm@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "suburbancow"
> <lizzieodonnell@...>
> wrote:
> >> I'm looking to buy whole rabbits, etc online but
> I am limited in my
> > links.
>
> Hi Elizabeth,
>
> http://www.prey4pets.com/servlet/StoreFront
>
> http://www.taylorpondfarms.com/
>
> are two places that i have used and would recommend.
> KathyM
>
>
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9a. will too much bone cause the runs?
Posted by: "eyed_blue" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 2:06 pm ((PST))
Hi, Heather, I just got your email and Im so glad you have cut out the
oats and veg, as I dont believe he needs them, definatley I think now
would be the time to feed tripe. Raw 'green' tripe (unprocessed)I
have had similar problems with my own pup and thats how I found out
about the diet that most people on this list are feeding by.ie no
grains, RMB'S...
Just remember (as you said)small and frequent meals, dont overload,
also start with very small amounts of tripe and build him up to more
and more slowly. Tripe in this form (unwashed)is usually very easy
for them to digest, and they love it! I would consider keeping him on
a few meals a day even once recovered if he is very sensitive.
Only introduce a new protein once he is ok on the first one (every
three days is what I done) The beauty of this diet is that if there is
a protein he does not do well on, at least you can pin point the cause.
Natalie
Messages in this topic (17)
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9b. will too much bone cause the runs?
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 2:06 pm ((PST))
PS dont go feeding him fatty foods as this is likley to cause the diahrea to return at this stage.
Natalie
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9c. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 2:06 pm ((PST))
Something else that I should have said as I have had the same problem in the past. I have found that if I dont give my dog a fast day once a week that he will get the runs and it will last for quite a while, cant get it sorted out for a week......
I think this is mother natures way of telling me that my dogs gut needs a rest! In the wild they often dont get the chance to eat the same amount of food each day....
When he has his fast day, he never gets any problems, seems to prevent any upset (and keeps his appetite up - which was almost non-existant in the past)
Natalie
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10a. parvo - advice needed
Posted by: "kit2132a@cox.net" kit2132a@cox.net pallas3
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 4:43 pm ((PST))
Hi all,
We just found out that my brother's girlfriend's 8 month old Doberman has
severe parvo. They are opting for emergency treatments, but we're not sure
if he'll survive.
My question is that my mother's 2 year old Doberman may have been exposed.
She had her full round of puppy shots, but has been vax free since. She's
been raw fed since we got her and has been very healthy.
Last night she did throw up a little, but has had no diarrhea, nor is she
running a fever. She ate her chicken this morning and was begging for scraps
at lunch. She has been a bit tired of late, but that could be due to a rainy
weather change or the fact that she's been going on bike rides and could be
sore.
We can't get her into our vet until Monday, but I'm scared that she might be
sick. Has anyone else had something like this or any advice to offer?
Thanks for any help!
Tracey
Phoenix, AZ
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Messages in this topic (4)
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10b. Re: parvo - advice needed
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 8:04 pm ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, <kit2132a@...> wrote:
>
> My question is that my mother's 2 year old Doberman may have
> been exposed.
> She had her full round of puppy shots, but has been vax
> free since. She's
> been raw fed since we got her and has been very healthy.
She should be immune. Thats the purpose of puppy shots. If her
last shot was at 16 weeks or older, all should be ok. Keep us
posted.
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (4)
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10c. Re: parvo - advice needed
Posted by: "Alison Maffett" sweettuth23@yahoo.com sweettuth23
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 8:06 pm ((PST))
Here is something that people use that is natural for parvo: http://www.ambertech.com/parvaid.php It's good to have on hand all the time for emergencies. Alison
----- Original Message ----
We can't get her into our vet until Monday, but I'm scared that she might be
sick. Has anyone else had something like this or any advice to offer?
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10d. Re: parvo - advice needed
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 8:15 pm ((PST))
Please take all parvo discussion to RawChat or DogHealth. The
Rawfeeding list is not the appropriate venue for it. Thank you.
Chris O
Moderation Team
Messages in this topic (4)
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11a. Re: certain meats cause panting
Posted by: "Susan Fortune" desperatelyseekingsusan@cox.net cactususan
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 8:05 pm ((PST))
Rather than the KIND of meat, I would suspect the VOLUME thereof.
Just like after Thanksgiving dinner, when we loosen our drawers, lay on the couch, and breath shallowly & swear we'll never eat again.
When I feed chicken, the portions are controlled. When I feed turkey, the dogs just go for it. The Min-Pin has absolutely no restraint at all, and afterwards looks like a bloated sack of protoplasm...and he pants until his meal has settled, or he poops, which ever comes first.
He also has to work pretty hard for some of these meals, and that will cause some panting.
I'd venture that when you feed goat, perhaps you're throwing a hunk to them & they gorge. Could that be the reason?
Susan Fortune
Southern California
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