[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12332

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
From: Yasuko herron

2a. Re: High Volume Treats
From: gevan1a
2b. Re: High Volume Treats
From: Belinda van de Loo

3a. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
From: recyclerat@aol.com
3b. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
From: recyclerat@aol.com
3c. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
From: Giselle
3d. will too much bone cause the runs?
From: carnesbill

4a. Re: Starving to death...
From: costrowski75
4b. Re: Starving to death...
From: carnesbill
4c. Re: Starving to death...
From: Belinda van de Loo

5.1. Green Tripe
From: mrsmenk
5.2. Re: Golden
From: Marjet Wolbertus

6a. Re: Dinky
From: Cathy
6b. Re: Dinky
From: Marjet Wolbertus

7a. Bad Pork??
From: Tracy
7b. Re: Bad Pork??
From: Yasuko herron

8a. Re: hookworms??
From: Michelle R

9. Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
From: mariola9000

10a. Hookworms?? UPDATE
From: Heidi
10b. Re: Hookworms?? UPDATE
From: Casey Post

11a. Question about Live animal markets (sanitary?)
From: Elie
11b. Re: Question about Live animal markets (sanitary?)
From: cypressbunny

12a. Re: Vomiting after meals
From: sphynxlover2
12b. Re: Vomiting after meals
From: sphynxlover2
12c. Re: Vomiting after meals
From: cypressbunny

Messages
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1a. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:05 pm ((PST))

> I thought that it was advised to mix pureed raw veggies with the raw meat.

HI,Kathleen. Answer is Nooooo!!

There are one type of rawfeeding that feed bony parts like chicken wing,back,neck etc etc along with pureed veg,yogurt,cottage cheese. There are some people feeding Raw meaty bone without veggies but along with Yogurt,cottage cheese.

But such bony parts are not only end up costing more than buying a whole bird but also diet itself has way too much calcium from bone and not enough other nutrients thatt dog could get from meat. Also,such bony part is easy to encouraging the dog to swallow whole which is not good. I think people gives Yogurt for probiotic property mainly but to get the yogurt have enough effect as probiotic,you probably need to give tonz of yogurt and not many dog torelate diary very well in large amount. I see no point to feed it as part of menu.

And cottage cheese is another popular item but way too high in sodium. I rather not to give such high sodium item. In one of the book that i have read,sour cream was recommended,but it is way too much fat in small amount and again,dairy. I see no point feeding it.

Then, there is another way of feeding; feeding as close to nature as possible and feed rawmeat,organ,bone,and no veg,no fruit,no Yogurt,no cottage cheese.and most try to feed as whole as possible if one can feed from various kinds of animals and varous parts of animals.

There are pre-made raw madallion,pre-ground products,and many supplements out there some people using to dogs.

I even heard of vegetarian feeding for dogs;feeding Tofu(altanative choice of protin) with other veg.

But dogs are not like us and they cannot digest veg as much as they can for raw meat,and I believe their diet should be largely based on meat and then,some bone,little of organs.

Veg has cell wall that dog cannot break on their own,so,people puree the veg for feeing.
If the dog was uterizing whatever veg we feed,then,it will be good thing to feed and good for them,but in reality,it isn't.

Especially,home-made feeding people feed carb largely as big as 40% of diet.Mostly grain with some of fiber like sweet potato or pumpkin etc along with veg like broccoli and some meat,bit of organ.

Veg/fruit/grain are carb and dog does not need carb.Hard to digest,other than it being not appropriate food item for them. They are not human,so,what is good for us is not necessary be good for them,and what they like eating is not necessary be good for them.
You can read more about veg if you search thearchive. This topic comes up at least once a month. the popular topic:-PSo,you can learn more by reading up other posts in the past..

Oh,the veg has high in Vitamin A too and since you feed organ that is having vitamin A also,you need to watch out how much A you are feeding to dogs. Too much is toxic.Vitamin A is stored in body if not used and unlike Vitamin B or C it is not going to flash out in urine so,need to eye on it. If you feed smidge of organs daily without veg,then,safe but if with veg,I think you need to eye on it becausesweet potato or pumpkin or other veg are really high in vitamin A.

>I've been giving my dog a mixture of raw meat (ground meat,chicken backs, etc.) with pureed raw veggies (usually carrots,broccoli, celery), and flaxseed oil, nutritional yeast, and sometimes raw egg.

Do you feed hunk of meat not ground?? Feeding hunk of meat gives mental/physical workout in meal time and it is better than feeding ground meat.and,your feeding item seems bit too bony.Why not getting awhole bird and cut-up to your dog's portion and feed? It means,the wing should be fed still attached to breast part etc.That is better way of feeding than feeding bony parts alone.IF you had already bought tonz of bony partsandno use for it if you change your feeding way,then,you still can use it but add more meat to it.Like chicken breast to bony parts. Bone intake should be roughly around 10%.It depends on each dog,but bone should not be big number of % in diet.

and.. one note of caution.

Carrots mostly being sugar and this is one of those item that diabetic dog cannot eat since most of nutrient is sugar.

Broccoli is having anti-cancer property,and many people seem to feed it among home-made feeding people. However,broccoli has function that surpress thyroid function if fed too often.

Cerely interfere calcium absorption if fed too much.

Flaxseed oil is plant-base oil so, dog cannot uterize it well.

Nutritional yeast; mainly good for giving Vitamin B,but meat has good amount of Vitamin B already. Your dog's diet is lack of Vitamin B??

Egg is good.My dog loves Egg.

Keep reading lists,and good luck,

yassy

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Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: High Volume Treats
Posted by: "gevan1a" gevans@sycomtech.com gevan1a
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:39 pm ((PST))

You might try the dehydrated all-meat or tripe nuggets at

www.animalfood.com. I got a sample at a performance event and they
went over really well.

-George

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Treulich, Sarah" <sarah@...> wrote:
>
> Hello. I just switched to raw feeding and I'm wondering about what to
> use for treats. I clicker train my dogs and that means using lots of
> treats, maybe 50 per session with 6 short sessions a day. When I was
> feeding kibble I simply used the kibble as treats, mixed with some
> hotdog or turkey. Now I can't do that. I'm looking for something
about
> the size of a fingernail, or smaller. I was considering using the
> hotdogs and turkey pieces by themselves. Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> Sarah and Man, Lady and Eros

Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: High Volume Treats
Posted by: "Belinda van de Loo" auntielindyloo@yahoo.com belindavandeloo
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:20 pm ((PST))

I bought a dehydrator pretty cheaply on the internet (eBay) and now I
dehydrate liver (in the garage!) and other meats in it for treats. You
can partially freeze the meat and then cut to small sizes for
dehydration. It takes about 8-12 hours to dehydrate (overnight)and you
have natural, healthy treats for your dogs. It can't get any easier
and healthier than this!
Blessings,
Belinda and "Honey" from Holland

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
Posted by: "recyclerat@aol.com" recyclerat@aol.com syrusmommy
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:39 pm ((PST))

gotcha..i will try this!

i've never given him tripe, but i've seen in the store..and, GAG. i was
willing to give it a shot if it was super fatty and easily digested..but if
its not - then i'd just rather not mess with that all together.



how many lbs can i feed him per day? (in tiny meals of ckn only).

thanks for your help!

.heather.

To put weight on him, add more meals, not more food at each meal. If you're
feeding him 2x a day, add another meal, and feed 3x a day. After a few days
to a week, you might even be able to add a 4th meal.

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Messages in this topic (13)
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3b. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
Posted by: "recyclerat@aol.com" recyclerat@aol.com syrusmommy
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:40 pm ((PST))

Thanks Bill - i'm in no hurry! i'd be perfectly content to feed only
chicken forever!

i will just feed the chicken for a while - i'm all ears for advice.

question i just thought of...i've been feeding whole chickens, quartered -
and i havent been removing anything..should i be removing the liver or
something?

.heather.

probably is but I don't see a pressing reason to. You have been
seeing progress for a couple of days and now you want to do
something different. When you are seeing progress keep doing
exactly what you have been doing, don't be in a hurry to change
thing.

Bill Carnes

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Messages in this topic (13)
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3c. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:05 pm ((PST))

Hi, Heather!
You don't wanna buy the tripe in the grocery stores or
markets, anyway. That stuff is washed and scalded and bleached, no good for
dogs!

If you think the sanitized people version of tripe is GAG, then never mind
the doggie version. ^_^

I would start with a conservative average amount of what you have been
feeding, divided into 3 meals a day. Then, add a meal every few days,
temporarily decreasing the amounts at the established meals. Increase the
number of meals and the amount you feed at each meal very gradually.

If you are feeding supermarket chicken, then there is only a little bit of
the liver adhering to the back - that shouldn't bother him. The whole liver,
heart and gizzard, and often the neck, too, is in a paper sack inside the
chicken. Just toss these in the freezer for later feeding.

TC
Giselle

On Nov 29, 2007 7:27 PM, <recyclerat@aol.com> wrote:

>
> gotcha..i will try this!
>
> i've never given him tripe, but i've seen in the store..and, GAG. i was
> willing to give it a shot if it was super fatty and easily digested..but
> if
> its not - then i'd just rather not mess with that all together.
>
> how many lbs can i feed him per day? (in tiny meals of ckn only).
>

> question i just thought of...i've been feeding whole chickens, quartered -
>
> and i havent been removing anything..should i be removing the liver or
> something?
>
> thanks for your help!
>
> .heather.
>

>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
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3d. will too much bone cause the runs?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:20 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, recyclerat@... wrote:
>
> question i just thought of...i've been feeding whole
> chickens, quartered -
> and i havent been removing anything..should i be removing
> the liver or something?

There is a bag inside that contains "giblets". Another word
for "insides". I would remove that bag and freeze it to feed a
month or two down the road.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (13)
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4a. Re: Starving to death...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:50 pm ((PST))

"jackie" <jackiehale1@...> wrote:
They look great,
> but they act like they are starving to death! I mean, to the point
of
> stealing things off the counters, out of the trash, etc.
*****
If you are not feeding big, complicated and engrossing body parts at
least occasionally, you should give them a try. The "problem" with raw
food is you get the calories and bone and nutrition into the dog
without a whole lot of food. So while your dogs are eating the "right"
amount for good weight and endurance etc., they are not getting full.
Full--satiety--is a great feeling. Depending on the size of your dogs,
there are a number of easy ways to feed Big Food from time to time.

What have you been feeding to what size dogs?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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4b. Re: Starving to death...
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:20 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jackie" <jackiehale1@...> wrote:
>
> I have been feeding my dogs raw since May this year. They
> look great,
> but they act like they are starving to death!

Judge by how they look, not by how they act. Any dog that doesn't
steal food off the counters or trash cans or anywhere else is either
very well trained or sick.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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4c. Re: Starving to death...
Posted by: "Belinda van de Loo" auntielindyloo@yahoo.com belindavandeloo
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:20 pm ((PST))

Hi Jackie,
I can identify with the 'acting like they are starving' routine
because I have 3 small dogs who have turned into animals since
switching to raw.
I have 2 boys (13 and 4) and 1 girl (puppy). The puppy is the only
one who acts acceptable but that's most likely because she's still
rather submissive. The two boys have discovered their wild side
since going raw. Competition is the name of the game, since they're
getting real carnivore food.
How to diffuse this?
I prepare the food and never give it to them while they are acting
out. They need to calm down before I give it to them. This
communicates what I feel is acceptable behaviour.
At times, I separate the feeding between the boys - one in one room
and the other in the other room.
The 13 yr. old was quite obese when he started on raw last May and he
still acts like he is food-deprived. Food is the center of his
existence. I feed twice a day and his inner clock is ready one hour
before I'm ready (at the very least!). Still, they have to be calm
when it's feeding time or they get nothing.
Suffice it to say - real food for them has arrived and they are
acting like animals, like carnivores.
You can help the process by not giving in to their demands (and
therefore reinforcing their bad behaviour) but by maintaining control
and the alpha position.
Hope this is a help.
Blessings,
Belinda and "Honey" from Holland

Messages in this topic (5)
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5.1. Green Tripe
Posted by: "mrsmenk" mrsmenk@starpower.net mrsmenk
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:20 pm ((PST))

Sorry if this has been covered before. I could not find it in the
archives.

How much green tripe can I feed my dogs (lab dane mix and dane - both
about 120 lbs.)? Is it considered an organ or a protein/meat? They
seem to love it but I don't want to overdo it.

Also, my two don't really care for chicken. I know I can force them to
eat it but what other sources of beef are there that are cheap? Are
tracheas considered meat or organ? Thanks.

Linda, Luke, & Lucy
VA

Messages in this topic (61)
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5.2. Re: Golden
Posted by: "Marjet Wolbertus" marjetwolbertus@sbcglobal.net marjetsf
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:47 pm ((PST))

MODERATORS NOTE:REMOVE THE AD IN YOUR SIGNATURE. IT WAS REMOVED ONE TIME ONLY BY THE MODERATOR. NEXT TIME YOUR MAIL WILL BE DELETED!!! PLEASE AND THANK YOU.

Well we are on day 3 and Sandy has happily devoured several
chickenbreasts, turkey necks and today a piece of oxtail and a whole
lambshank.
She is lying here next to me wiped out, it took her almost an hour to
snack on the shank and she left some very small pieces of bone with a
few larger splinters that she didnt eat, so I tossed them out. Very
happy retriever. Besides enjoying her food it wipes her out..

Fun!

Marjet Wolbertus

email marjetwolbertus@sbcglobal.net
www.marjetsellssf.com

On 29-Nov-07, at 5:01 PM, mrsmenk wrote:

> Sorry if this has been covered before. I could not find it in the
> archives.
>
> How much green tripe can I feed my dogs (lab dane mix and dane - both
> about 120 lbs.)? Is it considered an organ or a protein/meat? They
> seem to love it but I don't want to overdo it.
>
> Also, my two don't really care for chicken. I know I can force them to
> eat it but what other sources of beef are there that are cheap? Are
> tracheas considered meat or organ? Thanks.
>
> Linda, Luke, & Lucy
> VA
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (61)
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6a. Re: Dinky
Posted by: "Cathy" batcathy@sbcglobal.net batcathy2002
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:21 pm ((PST))

Thankyou everyone- I will do my best to answer all ...dink is 2 oct....has been raw fed since 4 mos. She has been eating since i first joined last week ground turkey only... I was told to go slow on bone- I have just added it back- 3 days ago..it was defatted & deskinned and the bulk of her meal was the meat. (back one day skip than a thigh)
I started on barf style but kept reading...learned more & dropped all to go with prey model.........meat,bone & organ.( almost a year now) On occasion I would feed can,drained & rinsed mackeral to which i would add pumpkin & yogurt. She was under weight & liked tuna so I would give her a couple times a week ...all in addition to her meat meal.....she only eats small amounts so i feed her more often.
She refused all food today so tonight I offered her her mackeral........2 bites is all she took.
She is parasite free....as of 3 wks ago- but had a bacterial overgrowth that vet medded her for....she had been 10 days & improved. The vet has given her the same meds now for over a year.........10 days & off untill next relapse. Now that I am aware I dont want her to have them anymore.
Tomorrow i will go to grocery for bone in breast meat- should i use turkey only for a couple weeks as she seems to tolerate it well? I dont have anything but ground here tonight so would it hurt her to offer her her tuna???
I do have SE - in capsule-800mg...how much should I use...( 7 1/2 lbs)...also have Bifidophilus caps.....should i use together & mix in the food?
I just returned from the nursing home and she appears better- walking normal-cold moist nose and is trying to play with the other kids.
thankyou all & sorry- i panic now when i see her hunch & start to cry.
Cathy

C Richmond
Lesmar's CC
Battle Creek, Mi.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
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6b. Re: Dinky
Posted by: "Marjet Wolbertus" marjetwolbertus@sbcglobal.net marjetsf
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:47 pm ((PST))

I think tuna has way too much salt in it and good do damage,
especially canned..that's my opinion. Just skip a day and do the
chickenbreast tomorrow bone in, it was what Sandy went for after a
slow first time.

Marjet Wolbertus

Realtor

The Barbagelata Realty Company
45 West Portal Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94127

direct Line (415) 317-7172

email marjetwolbertus@sbcglobal.net
www.marjetsellssf.com

On 29-Nov-07, at 5:07 PM, Cathy wrote:

> Thankyou everyone- I will do my best to answer all ...dink is 2
> oct....has been raw fed since 4 mos. She has been eating since i
> first joined last week ground turkey only... I was told to go slow
> on bone- I have just added it back- 3 days ago..it was defatted &
> deskinned and the bulk of her meal was the meat. (back one day skip
> than a thigh)
> I started on barf style but kept reading...learned more & dropped
> all to go with prey model.........meat,bone & organ.( almost a year
> now) On occasion I would feed can,drained & rinsed mackeral to which
> i would add pumpkin & yogurt. She was under weight & liked tuna so I
> would give her a couple times a week ...all in addition to her meat
> meal.....she only eats small amounts so i feed her more often.
> She refused all food today so tonight I offered her her
> mackeral........2 bites is all she took.
> She is parasite free....as of 3 wks ago- but had a bacterial
> overgrowth that vet medded her for....she had been 10 days &
> improved. The vet has given her the same meds now for over a
> year.........10 days & off untill next relapse. Now that I am aware
> I dont want her to have them anymore.
> Tomorrow i will go to grocery for bone in breast meat- should i use
> turkey only for a couple weeks as she seems to tolerate it well? I
> dont have anything but ground here tonight so would it hurt her to
> offer her her tuna???
> I do have SE - in capsule-800mg...how much should I use...( 7 1/2
> lbs)...also have Bifidophilus caps.....should i use together & mix
> in the food?
> I just returned from the nursing home and she appears better-
> walking normal-cold moist nose and is trying to play with the other
> kids.
> thankyou all & sorry- i panic now when i see her hunch & start to cry.
> Cathy
>
> C Richmond
> Lesmar's CC
> Battle Creek, Mi.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
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7a. Bad Pork??
Posted by: "Tracy" fireynyredhead@yahoo.com fireynyredhead
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:21 pm ((PST))

I usually just lurk and read what other have to say. Before I pose my
question, I wanted to thank everyone for the comments that I've read.
I have a 4 y/o GSD who has been sickly since I got him at 11 weeks, had
him back and forth to the vet who had no real answers. I have had him
on raw for about 2 months now and he is healthier than he has ever been
so now I have switched my Pomeranian.

Now for my question. I have tried to look this up with little success,
probably because of the way I am wording it.

For dogs is there such a thing as Bad Pork? How long does pork last in
the fridge before it becomes unhealthy for the dogs? I know that they
love really ripe beef, but still being rather new to this, I was
wondering if it is ok to feed pork that is no longer fit for human
comsumption?

Thanks,
Tracy

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: Bad Pork??
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:35 pm ((PST))

>For dogs is there such a thing as Bad Pork? How long does pork last in the fridge before it >becomes unhealthy for the dogs? I know that they love really ripe beef, but still being >rather new to this, I was wondering if it is ok to feed pork that is no longer fit for human >consumption?

Hi,Tracy. I have never fed something ripe to my dog but,I would not feed newbie dog something ripe because digestive system maynot be up to it.

I usually cut to portion andzipbag it and put all small bags to one big zip bag and freeze it.
I then take one bag out day before thefeeding day and,thaw in fridge.

Some of the items are unsliced and sleeping in freezer.Those are for big meal day time. such big one,I take 2 days before feeding time and thaw it in fridge and feed it but again, I would not try feeding bigger meal to newbie dog.I would not feed big all of thetime,I feed big once a month now and I am planning to move up to more big meal in a month gradually.

Pork that i avoid will be seasoned pork.

yassy

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8a. Re: hookworms??
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:47 pm ((PST))

Thats a blow fly, YUK!!!!!

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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9. Need to wash the scraps from butcher?
Posted by: "mariola9000" mariola9000@yahoo.com mariola9000
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:47 pm ((PST))

I picked up some venison scraps from a butcher today and he told me to
wash the meat because it is not fresh (the deer were not local - from
Colorado, and we live in California) and dirty. BTW - I told the
butcher I wanted the sraps for the dog, but did not say anything about
raw.
What do you think? Should I wash it before freezing like he suggested,
and if yes - in what? Plain warm water?

I will be going over to his store for more and fresher meat next week,
also some boar scraps.

What else should I ask for? I think I could convince this guy to give
me/sell more stuff. If I ask for meaty bones of a goat for example
(the goat leg quarters are $3.29/lb), what would be a reasonable
amount to pay for those? I got scraps for free, but I guess people are
usually paying for meaty bones, right?.

I never fed goat yet. Are goat bones soft? Which ones are edible?

He asked if I wanted the deer bones bones, but those were devoid of
any meat, so I declined. I already had bare naked bones from my
previous "deer hunt" and that was disappointing.

Mariola

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10a. Hookworms?? UPDATE
Posted by: "Heidi" troopob@yahoo.com troopob
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:18 pm ((PST))

Hello,

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

My DH took Obi in to the vet today and it was indeed the cuterebra.
The vet said the dog will stick his head in a rabbit hole and the
larva (from a fly) get on the muzzle and then migrate back to the
back where they burrow in. He must have found the right hole. All
the symptoms fit now. Itchy face from the larva starting their
migration, breathing issue from larva in the nose or throat, itchy
probably caused stress that caused the diarrhea and vomiting. Fecal
results come back tomorrow.

They pulled the larva out (smaller than maggot) and gave some topical
ointment. Vet said it was unusual this time of year, but we have had
a very warm fall and who knows how long they've been laying in wait.
Heidi and Obi

Messages in this topic (10)
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10b. Re: Hookworms?? UPDATE
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:29 pm ((PST))

> My DH took Obi in to the vet today and it was indeed the cuterebra.

Ah good to hear that it's nothing more serious! Gross, but something you
can deal with.

Casey

Messages in this topic (10)
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11a. Question about Live animal markets (sanitary?)
Posted by: "Elie" obo12759@yahoo.com obo12759
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:35 pm ((PST))

Hi all, I've been lurking here for a while and this is my first post,
actually. I started my little guy on raw about 2 months ago, and he's
been doing great on it- tons of energy, beautiful coat, the whole deal.
So my question is this: until now, I've been buying whatever was on
sale in the supermarket (i.e. beef, chicken, turkey, etc.), while
looking into other places I might acquire food more cheaply and in
greater quantities.
So after looking around for a while, I found a place next to where I
work and that was kinda convenient for me: a Halal Live animal market.
I went in there a couple of days ago, talked to them a bit, got their
prices, and left. The only reason I didn't buy anything then (even
though the prices are much better than the supermarkets', especially
for beef) was that I was kinda put off by the general gross-ness and
uncleanliness of the operation - none of the equipment seemed
particularly clean, and there were live animals hanging out right next
to the place where they processed the meat. In any event, I decided to
go back there today and buy just a bit to try out. So they led me to
the back where they had some frozen beef left over from a previous
order, and I bought a couple of pounds worth. I didn't think of it at
the time, but the meat I bought in the freezer was tossed in there
along with lots of other scraps, some of which still had the hide
attached. And when I got home, I realized there were bits of hair on
the meat (presumably from when it touched the hide) and that it
smelled very strongly like a farm. And here's the kicker - in the car,
I realized that my hands smelled a bit like feces- this, after I
touched and handled some of the beef from their freezer.

So, after this long and rambling post, I suppose my question is this:
I have no idea if this meat is safe to feed to my dog. I know, dogs
can handle ripe beef and all that, but how do I know that this beef
isn't tainted with some harmful bacteria? Like from the feces which I
assume got mixed in somehow with the beef in that freezer (because of
improper handling/butchering). Eventhough my dog likes to sneak in the
occasional poo treat when I'm not looking, that's his own poo, not
from other animals. My main concern is basically this: given the fact
that I found this place to be rather unsanitary, and that the beef
still smells like farm animals, and that it was touching the hide of
the cow in the freezer, and that my hands smellled like poo after
touching some of that meat, do any of you think safe to feed my puppy?
Any responses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Elie

Messages in this topic (2)
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11b. Re: Question about Live animal markets (sanitary?)
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:41 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Elie" <obo12759@...> wrote:
>
> I suppose my question is this:
> I have no idea if this meat is safe to feed to my dog.

*** I'm surprised that a Halal establishment would be so dirty,
since the essence of Halal is cleanliness, humaneness, and
sanitation. That being said, if it is whole meat and not ground, I
think it is fine to feed the dog. Any contamination will be minimal
and only on the outside of the meat. To be extra safe you could wash
it before feeding, and even spritz it with H2O2, vinegar, or GSE. I
wouldn't bother with that though. Dogs eat other animals' poop more
often than they eat their own.

*** I wouldn't worry about the hairs on the meat--I butcher my own
animals Halal style in the most humane and sanitary way possible,
but I still find it impossible when skinning to keep the carcass
completely free of hair. Poo is another story, but a little
hair/wool will stick to the carcass no matter how careful I am.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (2)
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12a. Re: Vomiting after meals
Posted by: "sphynxlover2" AST42701@aol.com sphynxlover2
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:47 pm ((PST))

Sorry for the delay in response. Seems like there just isn't enough
time in a day. Anyway, to answer your questions...
>
> Does he, or are you letting him, eat it back up?
>

The first time that it happened, I rinsed off the meat and offered it
to him again and he ate it and kept it down. Every time since then
I've offered it to him again and he refused.

> Do these vomited meals have bone?
>
If he's eaten bone with that meal then yes, he vomits that back up as
well.

> Does he vomit after activity, like an evening walk?

No, he has always gotten his evening walk before dinner and usually
has at least an hour, sometimes two before I feed him.
>
> Has he had recent vaccines, and what is his vaccine history
generally?

No, he hasn't been vaccinated in two years and won't be vaccinated
again. His vaccine history was the typical puppy shots (I didn't
know better at the time), vaccinated at four years old and then none
since.
>
> How's his water consumption? Does he drink a lot after meals?

Not so much that I've noticed. He usually takes in most of his daily
water intake when we get in from our walk, which is before dinner.
Rachelle in MS

Messages in this topic (8)
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12b. Re: Vomiting after meals
Posted by: "sphynxlover2" AST42701@aol.com sphynxlover2
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:52 pm ((PST))

Hi Andrea,

He has always been a slow and picky eater, and he's never been one to
gulp. He usually chews and swallows slowly and carefully. I have
tried hand feeding him and tonight it helped. I only gave him 1/2
pound and I offered it real slow and he kept it down and actually asked
for more.

Rachelle in MS

> Is he eating too quickly or bolting his food?

Messages in this topic (8)
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12c. Re: Vomiting after meals
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:54 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sphynxlover2" <AST42701@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry for the delay in response. Seems like there just isn't enough
> time in a day.

*** Ain't that the truth! Has this only been going on since last
weekend? On the camping trip, did he drink water from streams or
puddles? If so he may have picked up a bug from that. You may want to
phone the vet and mention the diarrhea and camping trip and ask what
they recommend to diagnose such a thing. Giardia, for example, needs
to be examined under the microscope within 10 minutes or the little
bugger encysts and are hard to see.

*** Aside from that, he may just have some irritation/inflammation of
the tummy, and a 24 hour fast may allow that to heal and solve the
problem.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (8)
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