[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12324

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Chihuahua Gulping + Choking -- Ideas?
From: Kelly
1b. Re: Chihuahua Gulping + Choking -- Ideas?
From: Dawn Taylor

2a. Three pounds/day for 100 lb dog
From: Shannon Parker

3a. Re: variety
From: alimaxral

4a. Naturally Raised Dogs and cats
From: A. L. W.
4b. Re: Naturally Raised Dogs and cats
From: Alison Maffett

5a. Re: New - Intro - dog with possible kidney disease
From: Cdandp2@aol.com
5b. Re: New - Intro - dog with possible kidney disease
From: Sandee Lee

6a. Pork Neck Bones
From: Tiziana Ruff
6b. Re: Pork Neck Bones
From: costrowski75
6c. Re: Pork Neck Bones
From: Elizabeth Hackley

7a. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
From: recyclerat@aol.com
7b. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
From: costrowski75
7c. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
From: recyclerat@aol.com

8a. Re: Checking in, week 4 - 2-3% calc question
From: costrowski75
8b. Re: Checking in, week 4 - 2-3% calc question
From: Morledzep@aol.com

9a. Blood work and raw diet question please
From: rainy_dogpark
9b. Re: Blood work and raw diet question please
From: Sandee Lee

10a. Re: Medicated or Non Medicated?
From: PK Shader

11a. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
From: h h

12. Re: Lose the scale, look at the dog
From: Sai Simonson

13a. Re: Determining weight of dog
From: Sai Simonson
13b. Re: Determining weight of dog
From: Tina Berry

14a. Frozen 4 toys? (was -how much to feed a 4lb chihuahua?)
From: ada

15a. Re: My introduction:
From: Sandee Lee

Messages
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1a. Re: Chihuahua Gulping + Choking -- Ideas?
Posted by: "Kelly" kelism@gmail.com vt_stuff
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:51 am ((PST))

I have two chihuahuas - both around 3 lbs. One is a VERY dainty eater...the
other isn't exactly a gulper but she prefers to eat quickly.

On 11/27/07, glamour.cupcakes <glamour.cupcakes@yahoo.com> wrote:

> She was eating a couple of chicken gizzards (partially thawed)

For small dogs, gizzards are the PERFECT size to choke on. I don't feed
gizzards because of that reason. Either skip them, or cut/grind if you feel
you have to feed them (too much work, just skip them).

On 11/27/07, glamour.cupcakes <glamour.cupcakes@yahoo.com> wrote:

> What are some "safe" parts I can give her? I can't
> offer her a whole chicken because that will take her over a week to
> finish. At the same time, it has to be something big enough so she
> definitely has to chew.

Try a game hen instead of a chicken and cut it in half. Freeze one half,
and the other half should last a few days of chewing. Chicken quarters are
also good. As are hunks 'o rabbit, lamb necks, any kind of ribs, etc.

--
Kelly

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Messages in this topic (6)
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1b. Re: Chihuahua Gulping + Choking -- Ideas?
Posted by: "Dawn Taylor" dawnmarie1968@tx.rr.com dawnt91
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 pm ((PST))

"Do you have any tips for me on how to deal with a tiny gulper? She
is just 5lbs. What are some "safe" parts I can give her? I can't
offer her a whole chicken because that will take her over a week to
finish. At the same time, it has to be something big enough so she
definitely has to chew."

******************

I have a 10 lb Chi-MinPin mix, and I usually don't give her anything as
small as a gizzard, unless it's a piece of organ meat like liver. Right
now, she's working on a bone from a pork picnic. I cut most of the meat off
of it for my greyhound to eat as a meaty meal and gave her the rest.
There's probably 3/4 lb of meat and skin left on it. When she gets full,
I'll pick it up for tomorrow. She won't eat much of the bone since it's so
large, but she'll get enough of it.

I also feed her chicken thighs and breasts. If they're too big for one day,
I take them up for the next.

I try to make sure her food is always bigger than her head. She hasn't
choked yet, thankfully.

HTH

Dawn

Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. Three pounds/day for 100 lb dog
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:27 am ((PST))

Hi Sai,

I agree with what everyone has told you. If your dog is looking fat (and Its not hard to tell on those sighthounds even with all that hair) then cut him back. If he's not fat, he's not fat. The sighthounds tend to have a very high metabolism. To give you an idea of what my guys eat...I have a 55lb greyhound that is maintaining well on 1.75-2 lb a day. I have a 105lb Argentine Dogo that eats 1.75lb a day and gets fat when I give him any more than that. They both sleep about 23 hours a day, but they are designed differently and thus eat what they can maintain. Trust your dog on this one...he'll tell you when it's too much, or too little.

Shannon

Sai Simonson <saiczarina@comcast.net> wrote:
Tina,
Have interesting thing to relate. Took Lexi (100+ lb Borzoi) to the vet
scale today as he had been "telling" me he was starving and please give
him an extra chicken thigh or two. He weighed in at 108 which is
starting to concern me. I have removed all skin from the thighs. Now
he gets the smaller turkey neck and the beef knuckle bone without the
fat. His companion is only 62 lb female Borzoi so she gets the better
stuff now. Lexi has gained 10 pounds since July on the all raw diet. Oh
what to do??? :-)

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Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: variety
Posted by: "alimaxral" albrooker@bigpond.com alimaxral
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jennifer_hell" <jenniferhell@...>
wrote:
>
> Better be safe than sorry- give the digestive system a
> chance to adjust to the new stuff.
>
> Jennifer

Hi everyone

Thanks for your answers. I started raw about a week ago. My dogs
whilst mainly kibble fed have also had a reasonable exposure to a
variety of meats including a brief period of a modified/additive raw
immediately preceeding prey model. Things are going well. I was
nervous, dogs ravenous and content.

Only question is whether one of mine is taking time to adjust to
breaking down bone in his gut. Is it normal in the early stages to
have 2" bones expelled in the stools? Happenend initially though not
the last few days. Last night woke to one of the dogs about to throw
up. Almost laughed when I saw the small volume (am used to HUGE
volume kibble lakes)but was a bit concerned by the 2" needle sharp
bone expelled.

Will this lessen and stop or is this all 'par for the course' and is
what the dogs gut is designed for?

Alison

Messages in this topic (19)
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4a. Naturally Raised Dogs and cats
Posted by: "A. L. W." chenneoue@yahoo.com chenneoue
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

I believe a while back, which I can't seem to find, there was a link
to a list, or site where they listed dogs/puppies that were raised on
Raw and vaccine free. Does anyone have that link? Is there also a
place like that for cats?

I am not in the market right this second for either, but I figure it
good to do some research to find breeders now. :)

Thank you,

Amanda

Messages in this topic (2)
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4b. Re: Naturally Raised Dogs and cats
Posted by: "Alison Maffett" sweettuth23@yahoo.com sweettuth23
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:29 pm ((PST))

Here ya go: http://www.truthaboutvaccines.org/breeders.html Alison

----- Original Message ----

I believe a while back, which I can't seem to find, there was a link to a list, or site where they listed dogs/puppies that were raised on Raw and vaccine free. Does anyone have that link? Is there also a place like that for cats?

Amanda

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Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: New - Intro - dog with possible kidney disease
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:24 pm ((PST))

Well, I'd go to K9KidneyDiet (yahoo list) and see what they have to say.? I've been through hospicing a dog with renal failure and all usual assumptions are off depending on the dog's particular blood profile, etc.

Raw is fine, but the challenge there becomes giving enough calories without overloading phosphorus.

They're great on that list and really know everything you want to know about all aspects of kidney problems and related issues...especially diet.

That is, if you want to prolong the dog's life.? In the wild, the kidneys would just shut down and the dog would die.

Just a suggestion.

best to all,

Carol

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Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: New - Intro - dog with possible kidney disease
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:56 pm ((PST))

Hi Tammy,

One of the most detrimental things you can do in dealing with a dog with
kidney disease is feed one of those low protein prescription diets. The
kidneys (and all other organs) require good quality, high moisture, easy to
digest, bioavailable protein which of course is raw. Depending on the
results you get, you may have to tweak the diet by reducing phosphorus, but
decreasing protein will do more harm than good. You definitely need more
than a urinalysis...did they not run any bloodwork?

We have discussed this a lot...did you look up renal disease or kidney
disease?

Here is some info about protein and kidneys....
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/114796

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Pundah" <Pundah@comcast.net>
>
> We have a Pointer mix, Cody, who will be 11 on Dec 1. He has always had
some food allergies, not horrific, but gives him runny eyes all the time and
occasional ear infections. The main issue now is that he is being diagnosed
as pre- or -early kidney disease. So I've read about the recommended Rx
kidney diet but am not crazy about all the corn in it. We have more tests
to run (the initial diagnosis based solely on urinalysis and I think more is
needed) and I've made out my list of questions. We see the regular vet on
Weds then an ultrasound next Tuesday. My main question regarding Cody is -
I've read from other raw supporters that there can be times when the raw
diet is contraindicated, such as when an illness already exists. On the
other hand, I've read many cases where the diet helped the illness. I've
tried searching the archived messages but dont a specific reply, tho I may
have missed it. I certainly dont want to make him worse, and admit to being
a bit hypersensitive as we lost our 7-yr old Danein July.

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Pork Neck Bones
Posted by: "Tiziana Ruff" queentiz@msn.com tizianaruff
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:24 pm ((PST))

My butcher game me a bag of pork neck bones as a present. They are
probably 3 x 2 inches long. Can I give those to my 2 Weimaraners?

Messages in this topic (26)
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6b. Re: Pork Neck Bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:45 pm ((PST))

"Tiziana Ruff" <queentiz@...> wrote:
>
> My butcher game me a bag of pork neck bones as a present. They are
> probably 3 x 2 inches long. Can I give those to my 2 Weimaraners?
*****
Egad, no.
These are exactly precisely the sort of bones that cause problems. Use
them in a good sturdy soup or stew. If they are at all meaty, roast
and bbq them. Don't feed them your Weims.

And next time, ask your butcher not to cut them. At all. Butchers
rarely "get" raw feeding. Their lack of knowledge is often detrimental
to the process.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (26)
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6c. Re: Pork Neck Bones
Posted by: "Elizabeth Hackley" twodobemom@yahoo.com twodobemom
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:54 pm ((PST))

I would. Given that my dobes are about the same size
as your pups, I'd actually say that their a bit on the
small size, but that's just my opinion. I prefer my
neck bones to be a bit bigger.

Elizabeth Hackley, Flicka, Gunther Guinness with Loki & Max (waiting at the bridge)

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Messages in this topic (26)
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7a. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
Posted by: "recyclerat@aol.com" recyclerat@aol.com syrusmommy
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:25 pm ((PST))

No, probably too much food. Too large of meals will cause soft stools
as will too much fat early in the diet or too many organs early in the
diet. It sounds like he is getting too much to eat at one time. I
know you said he was underweight, but those pounds need to be put back
on gradually.

Bill Carnes
*****************************
really?? too much?

his ideal weight would be around 100 lbs - so i was guesstimating his avg
food intake should be around 3-4 lbs (well my guesstimation does involve
over feeding by maybe a pound, b/c of him being so very bony right now).

the 1/2 ckn weighed around 2 lbs - and the fish, maybe 1? plus the
drumstick bones... think i should quarter the chicken and feed only half the
chicken of the whole day?

i kinda wanna stick to chicken without the skin and fish until i feel
securely over this bowel flare up -

i appreciate all this help, so does Frank.

.heather.
.frank.
.chi-chi.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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7b. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:52 pm ((PST))

recyclerat@... wrote:
> really?? too much?
*****
If you are comfortable with the amount you've chosen to start with,
perhaps what you might do is add a meal so that you're feeding the same
amount but each serving is smaller. This puts less of a burden on the
digestive system.

I don't think too much bone can cause the runs but certainly a too big
meal can; and if bone is part of the meal, it too will come out
undigested.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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7c. Re: will too much bone cause the runs?
Posted by: "recyclerat@aol.com" recyclerat@aol.com syrusmommy
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:40 pm ((PST))

I don't think too much bone can cause the runs but certainly a too big
meal can; and if bone is part of the meal, it too will come out
undigested.
Chris O

*********************************

ok..gotcha. i will try a lesser amount for the 1st meal..and try a smaller
meal mid day..and a small meal again for the evening.

now, i'm going to do a poop check.

.heather.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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8a. Re: Checking in, week 4 - 2-3% calc question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:38 pm ((PST))

"laura.wimpey" <laura.wimpey@...> wrote:>
> >Those numbers are nothing more than a suggested starting point...
>
> Yes and so should I consider myself no longer a "starter" raw
feeder
> after only a few weeks?
*****
Not that kind of starting.
Starting as in "well this room is a total disaster and I don't know
where to begin so I guess I'LL START HERE."

I took the calculation as a starting point.
*****
Yes, this kind of starting. If the starting place you chose isn't
working, choose again. Adjusting, fiddling, fooling around with,
messing with--all are part of a good raw diet fed by a responsive and
responsible raw feeder.

>I'll muck around the archives now to find some info on
> higher calorie meats; go back and find those links I ingnored that
> took you to nutritional info sites. And no, I won't become
obsessed
> with counting calories for the dogs instead of counting ounces :P.
*****
I suggest the easiest way to increase fat is to feed visible fat.
You don't need to get up close and personal with calories, really.
Pork shoulder - visible fat. Lamb - visible fat. Beef pot
roast/brisket - visible fat. Salmon, mackerel, sardines - visble
fat. Goat - little visible fat. Venison - little visible fat.
Whether the fat is subQ or laid down on muscle or collected around
organs, you'll be able to see it. It's not shy.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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8b. Re: Checking in, week 4 - 2-3% calc question
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:08 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 11/27/2007 6:27:21 AM Pacific Standard Time,
laura.wimpey@yahoo.com writes:

So do I need to give this more time for him to drop some weight? Is
there some fallable point in my feeding calculation? Am I on the
right track to shed some pounds off him or is 55 lbs his 'happy
weight'? His stools have not indicated overfeeding since the first
few days.

Laura,

the beginning percentages are just guidelines.. if Elias needs less food then
he needs less food. Feed him less. 2% is not a minimum, it's only a
beginning reference point.

Catherine R.

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9a. Blood work and raw diet question please
Posted by: "rainy_dogpark" rainy_dogpark@myway.com rainy_dogpark
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:55 pm ((PST))

I am going to be getting my dog a senior blood workup this week. I've
been told that the numbers on the blood work of raw fed dogs can often
be different than with kibble fed dogs.

I did a search and found this link by Jean Dodd:
http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/doddsnutrition.html

It indicates the following:
"While a more detailed analysis of other parameters has yet to be
completed, initial results indicate that dogs fed raw meats (natural
carnivores) have higher red blood cell and blood urea nitrogen levels
than dogs fed cereal-based food (obligate omnivores). Thus, the normal
reference values for dogs fed raw food diets should probably be revised."

Has anyone seen any changes on test results in your dogs?
Thanks.

Bj

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: Blood work and raw diet question please
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:13 pm ((PST))

I think the majority of us have not seen any difference in blood levels on
our rawfed dogs. Just be sure he is fasting for at least 8 hours for the
most accurate results.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "rainy_dogpark" <rainy_dogpark@myway.com>

I am going to be getting my dog a senior blood workup this week. I've
been told that the numbers on the blood work of raw fed dogs can often
be different than with kibble fed dogs.

Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Re: Medicated or Non Medicated?
Posted by: "PK Shader" Forloveofdogs@gmail.com forloveofdogs
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:58 pm ((PST))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES AND YOUR SIG LINE.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "PK Shader" <Forloveofdogs@>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "" <carnesw@> wrote:
> >
> > I know this is a bit after the fact, but I am very curious to
> > find out what feed "exactly" your brother uses on his chicken farm.

> I don't know "exactly" what he feeds.

Perhaps when you talk to him again you would be so kind as to ask him
for me.

> > Even now I cannot find any feed formulated for chickens at any
> > of my local or otherwise farm feed stores because they
> > don't carry "chicken" feed that does not have meds already in
> > the mix.
> He doesn't buy his food at a store. It is shipped in by tractor
> trailer trucks. It is not in bags, but open in the trucks. It is
> pumped into large silo like structures and sent by conveyer belt to
> the feeders. Feeding is an automatic operation. No humans needed.
> He gets a tractor trailer load every few days.

As is the case for large chicken and other livestock concerns in my
state as well. But bagged or truck load they are all the same feed
according to the main office.

> > And since a normal chicken takes up to 5 months to mature may
> > I assume that your brother is farming the genetically
> > engineered whites that mature in 6 to 8 weeks?
>
> I don't know if "genetically engineered" is the correct term anymore
> than each breed of dog is "genetically engineered". Yes they are
> white and they mature in 8 weeks.

This may be true but since neither I or my dogs eat other dogs, my
question was about chickens.

> > If so I know that (here in Wisconsin
> > according to our own farm extension service) if they are not given
> > large supplements of vitamin B, D and calcium daily their
> > legs become deformed and they will go down.

> I don't know what supplements are in the food. I don't consider
> vitamins and minerals to be chemicals. I guess technically they are
> but they aren't like hormones or steriods or abx which aren't used.

I appreciate your information and will be curious to hear about what
your brother actually feeds his chickens. It could possibly save me a
lot of work and worry for my own small flock.

Thanks Again,

PK

PK Shader CSATSLL1, ABMA, ABS, AWA, CSATS Mentor
For Love of Dogs Canine/Human Relations Learning Center LLC
Walworth/Springfield, WI 53176
Office 262-248-0620 Cell 312-259-5305
Currently, and for the last 42 years, teaching humans to live in
harmony with their best friends.

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Messages in this topic (17)
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11a. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
Posted by: "h h" deedeekinsisme@yahoo.com tarbedyh
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:59 pm ((PST))

Heidi, the FDA already says feeding raw is bad. One of the basics most
rawfeeders have to address thoroughly is the attitude of
institutionalized anything towards alternative anything.

~~~~~~~~
Yes, I know they are already saying that Raw is bad (just look at all those "helpful" how to cook labels on the packages of meat in the store). But, if they are going after companies that manufacture those raw mixes...they are bringing it to forefront of kibble feeders attention. Plus if the FDA is able to shut down companies that make the raw mixes, then that would make any "animal care professional" that isn't a raw advocate *required* to report me for neglect according to my city's municipal code. I don't mind defending the way I feed my dogs...but I would much rather not have to do it in a court of law. Plus there are a few other points in the municipal code pertaining to animals that I don't follow.

HEIDI MARIE
~with the woofs-Cheyenne and Lazy B~
~and the moggies-Minerva, Shasta, and Misty-Jo~

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12. Re: Lose the scale, look at the dog
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:44 pm ((PST))

Tina,
I am heartened for this information and hope I can apply it to myself.
Have been on a two hour regime of weight, pulleys, pry bars to regain
use of my "frozen" shoulder after a sport injury on the Ides of April
9(ahem, jump over the couch). My jeans not fitting must indicate muscle
not fat from the extra snacks....oh my. Also taking creatine....but we
are not covering supplements here and I am not the dog in question.

Lexi does look good so I will not worry, but I have cut out the baby
carrots (4), half a slice of cheese, and am giving bigger portions to
the girl Zoi. Then there is the after walk snack....we gave him only 2
tiny minature treats instead of 4. He noticed. I do have the freeze
dried beef liver treats which I probably should substitute.

Sai

Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:45 am (PST)
"Lexi has gained 10 pounds since July on the all raw diet. Oh what to do???"

Ignore the scale and look at your dog. When you convert to raw, the main
thing to remember is you just cut out all those fattening carbs and your
dog will develop more muscle instead of fat. Muscle weighs more than
just like us if we weigh 120lbs ideally, then start lifting weights,
doing aerobics, etc. and now weigh 140 - but we still wear the same size
clothes - it's because we converted our fat to muscle and we are now tone.

Same with dogs; so if he's getting appropriate exercise, and you can
barely see his ribs and they feel like washboards, he's probably fine.
Also, I don't know if all breeds do this, but gsds will get a fatty
pocket under their chest between their front legs when they are too heavy.

So ignore the scale and look at your dog - he'll tell you.

Messages in this topic (1)
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13a. Re: Determining weight of dog
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:44 pm ((PST))

Tina said:
Same with dogs; so if he's getting appropriate exercise, and you can barely
see his ribs and they feel like washboards, he's probably fine. Also, I
don't know if all breeds do this, but gsds will get a fatty pocket under
their chest between their front legs when they are too heavy.

It will be hard to determine fatty pocket, if any, for the fatty tumors
reside there.
Disgusting, many on his body since he was 4. No one knows why.
Sai
--
--
*~~ SaiCzarina*

Messages in this topic (2)
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13b. Re: Determining weight of dog
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:08 pm ((PST))

"It will be hard to determine fatty pocket, if any, for the fatty
tumors reside there. Disgusting, many on his body since he was 4. No one
knows why."

Seems fatty tumors are pretty common - with people too. Atleast if they're
benign, no worries.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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14a. Frozen 4 toys? (was -how much to feed a 4lb chihuahua?)
Posted by: "ada" mom2moz@yahoo.com mom2moz
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:08 pm ((PST))

> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "typerzoid"
> <typerzoid@...> wrote:
> > I remember reading in prior posts about frozen and
> > even chilled meat possibly causing seizures (?) in
> > toy breeds. Something about it lowering their body
> > temperature to a dangerous level.
> > Jayne and Bodhi, Minpin Extrordinare

I cannot speak to the issue of seizures resulting from
chilled meat; but, I do know that my Abigail (yorkie)
has had sudden core temp drop from eating partially
frozen meat. I have one dog that won't eat *unless*
it's frozen, so I offered her some too. She loved it;
but, I think it threw her into shock. I thought she'd
never stop shaking. I held her close to keep her
warm. Won't do that again!

ada
mo (silkie/shih-tzu/maltese mutt) & abbie (yorkie)

"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole." ~ Roger Caras

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15a. Re: My introduction:
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:17 pm ((PST))

Hi Ian,

About time you get that pup switched over to real food! :))

Wondering what your reasoning is for saving the best for last rather than
starting them out on raw during their crucial growth period???? There is
absolutely no benefit to feeding kibble. Raw results in perfect slow growth
with all the necessary nutrients those little bodies require.

But anyway...what are you feeding now?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Ian Flanagan" <oddariesofthe7th@yahoo.com>

> Hey, my name is Ian. I'm from PA, I own 3 Labradors, one of each color. 2
are on raw/home made diets, the other is starting to be weened off from the
breeders kibble to raw. Some may ask why isn't she on the raw yet, well.. I
honestly didn't want to take her off the kibble until she was a lil older.
Now going on 7 months I feel its time. As I did with my other 2. Normally I
ween them from the solid gold wolfcub, to innova large breed puppy kibble,
to innova evo, then to bravo/paw naturaw pre made raw, then to home made
raw.

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