[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12316

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: trying not working
From: Michelle R
1b. Re: trying not working
From: carnesbill

2a. South African Boerboel puppy question?
From: footblack78
2b. Re: South African Boerboel puppy question?
From: Sandee Lee

3a. Re: I am scared silly
From: ada
3b. Re: I am scared silly
From: v_rod_or

4. new to rawfeeding with Dobes
From: arabianbluedobe

5a. Re: First Feeding
From: carnesbill

6.1. Turkey
From: John
6.2. Re: Turkey
From: costrowski75
6.3. Re: Turkey
From: carnesbill
6.4. Re: Turkey
From: Morledzep@aol.com

7a. Re: Kathy intro-premix raw concerns
From: gudrun032150
7b. Re: Kathy intro-premix raw concerns
From: recyclerat@aol.com
7c. Re: Kathy intro-premix raw concerns
From: recyclerat@aol.com
7d. Re: Kathy intro-premix raw concerns
From: carnesbill

8a. Re: Excessive urinating
From: recyclerat@aol.com
8b. Re: Excessive urinating
From: Morledzep@aol.com

9.1. Re: Newbie intro
From: costrowski75

10a. Re: Salmon Oil/How much???
From: costrowski75

11. Buying from the source
From: the swamp witch

12. Making the switch
From: paula.0666

13. Supplementing with premade raw?
From: jordan_spiva

14. Re: support when making the switch
From: Michael Moore

15a. Re: Support when making the switch?
From: Eddie Scholten

Messages
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1a. Re: trying not working
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:35 pm ((PST))

Tiffany, most suggest chicken as the first protein, but I didnt have chicken, I had venison and hamburger, so I tried the hamburger first. I tried little spoonfull sized bites at first. Since it was more like offering a treat, they took right to it. Sure there were several false starts, where they would eagerly take it, only to spit it out in disgust and look at it....then pick it up and spit it out again....on about the 3rd try, theyd finally eat it. :-) Now they are eating small bits of hamburger, mostly venison and turkey (esp lately). They love everything about turkey except the wings....most of mine just carry them around, licking, but refuse to actually eat them. Any other part, they really munch on.
For just starting, if you have a real picky bunch, it wouldnt hurt to fast them for a day...that way you have hunger on your side. They wont starve themselves, they will eat. Try putting your chosen meal down for them, depending on the portion and type of meat, you might try giving it a few whacks with a mallet first, that loosens up the juices and yummy smells to make it more attractive to them. Also you might try smaller peices..more like treat sized, just to introduce the idea to them and work up over a few days to get them eating larger and then whole peices.

Im certain many others will have many more suggestions,
HTH,

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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Messages in this topic (5)
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1b. Re: trying not working
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:35 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tiffany.contempopainting"
<tiffcurran@...> wrote:
>
> Hi new at this.I tried turkey necks, chicken legs, and even
> the frozen packaged raw.

Whoa! Slow down. Start with one thing at a time and move slowly.
Most start with chicken. Give the dogs a piece of chicken. Get out
of their way and leave them alone. Don't hover over them. Don't
encourage them. Don't cajole them. Just watch them from a distance.
Don't do any cooking or dressing up the food in any way.

After 10 minutes of no interest, pick up the food and put it in the
fridge. Bring it out at the next meal time. Not before. No snacks
or treats between meals. Do the same thing next meal. If necessary
do the same thing the meal after that and the meal after that.

They won't starve. A dog won't let himself starve when there is food
around. You aren't starving them. You are offering food and they are
refusing to eat.

After a couple of weeks of feeding nothing but chicken, add turkey to
the mix. If all is still ok after another week, add something else
like pork. Add one new meat ever week after that until you have
offered most everything available.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. South African Boerboel puppy question?
Posted by: "footblack78" footblack78@yahoo.com footblack78
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:35 pm ((PST))

I need some help on understanding good diet for my puppy. My breeder that I am
buying my dog from spoke to me about bone growth and protein. She stated that it is
important that I can slow the bone growth down, with using the right food with the right
percentage of protein can help. So I need some help in figuring out proper puppy/dog food,
treats, chew bones, vitamin brands that are out there. Also what kind of human food do some
of you give your boerboel that continues to give them good health?

This will be a huge help you guys, I appreciate it.

Good day,
Johann

Messages in this topic (2)
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2b. Re: South African Boerboel puppy question?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:54 pm ((PST))

Johann,

A prey model raw diet is perfect for proper growth of your puppy. Lots of
meat, lots of protein, a little edible bone and organs. You can't do better
than the diet nature devised. No vitamins, no chew bones other than what
is included in the meal...not sure what you mean by human food. Everything
I feed is human quality (other than tripe)...except they get theirs raw, I
cook mine.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "footblack78" <footblack78@yahoo.com>

I need some help on understanding good diet for my puppy. My breeder that I
am
buying my dog from spoke to me about bone growth and protein. She stated
that it is
important that I can slow the bone growth down, with using the right food
with the right
percentage of protein can help. So I need some help in figuring out proper
puppy/dog food,
treats, chew bones, vitamin brands that are out there. Also what kind of
human food do some
of you give your boerboel that continues to give them good health?

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: I am scared silly
Posted by: "ada" mom2moz@yahoo.com mom2moz
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:35 pm ((PST))

--- cypressbunny <cypressbunny@yahoo.com> wrote:
> *** Still brings tears to my eyes, Ada. Hats off to
> Mo.

Thanks, Carrie. He's a trip :).

ada
mo (silkie/shih-tzu/maltese mutt) & abbie (yorkie)

"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole." ~ Roger Caras

____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

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Messages in this topic (12)
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3b. Re: I am scared silly
Posted by: "v_rod_or" v_rod_or@yahoo.com v_rod_or
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:29 am ((PST))

> Okay, I am convinced. Rawfeeding is the way to go.

I'm with you so far.

> even watching Freecycle for a freezer to stock up on food.

That'll come in handy, and will make eating right cheaper for you and
your dogs.

> overcome my worries that the food all needs to be organic

Organic is probably best, but can we agree that selecting the right
types of food (for both you and your dog) is a sensible first step?

> I am terrified.

We've all been there. The first time I fed Spike a piece of raw
chicken, I stood there ready to pry his jaws open and take heroic
measures to reestablish his airway. Naturally, there have been no
problems. It seems a dog instinctively knows how to eat meat - go figure.
>
> I also want a team of pet paramedics to be there

Do your first raw feed in the parking lot of your vet's office, if it
makes you feel better. You can always gather up your pooch and rush
him inside if there's a problem. Or use the buddy system - team up
with someone else who feeds raw and have him/her with you the first time.

> my Pom hacks and coughs already, with no provocation (vet has found
no clear reason for this.)

My Dal used to choke on kibble sometimes, too. I finally tried eating
some kibble myself, which resulted in instant, total understanding.
Please don't try this yourself. It is much worse than you imagine,
and the guilt is tough to overcome.

> I am sorry to sound like a neurotic mess, but....has anyone else
ever felt this way before taking the plunge?

Only all of us. :)

> I guess I just need a few words of encouragement (gentle ones,
> please.)

Try starting one dog with half a skinless, boneless chicken breast;
you can save money by buying a sack of frozen ones for about $2 a
pound at a discount grocery store.

Now, cook one of the chicken breasts for yourself, if you're so
inclined. While you're eating, reflect on the fact that you have just
fed your dog something you yourself can actually eat!

Repeat this ritual with each dog until you feel comfortable.

Once you've satisfied yourself that your dogs won't choke on the meat,
try giving them a raw bone-in chicken breast. They'll do fine. It
will surprise you how easily they eat the raw chicken bones...almost
like they were made to eat raw meat!

> Sorry to have rambled, and thanks for your patience (you will be
> patient, won't you... ;) ?

Sure! Come back and tell us how well it went, will ya?

Rod & Spike
Eugene, OR

Messages in this topic (12)
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4. new to rawfeeding with Dobes
Posted by: "arabianbluedobe" arabianbluedobe@yahoo.com arabianbluedobe
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:35 pm ((PST))

Hi I am new to this group and to feeding raw. I have quite a few
Doberman Pinschers but have only switched 2 so far. One is my Blue
girl Delilah, She has been rawfed for a little over 1 week. She is a
typical blue with some minor coat issues. I've taken before pics, I'll
post the befores or send them upon request.
The other raw fed dog is my red male obe. His toenails were weak and
cracking so I figured diet could help.
I look forward to all the good info I can find here.
Only one question, Anyone here live near Lockhart, Tx about 1 hr
souhteast of Austin? I would like to get a group together to buy in
bulk. There is only one meat market near here. No fish markets
either. If you are interested in getting together to purchase in bulk
please let me know.
Thanks ahead of time,
April Long

Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: First Feeding
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:35 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sallie Taylor <treterra@...>
wrote:
>
> OK, so the Bullmastiff ate half a chicken in about 10 minutes.
> We stayed with her the whole time and took it away once just to
> be sure she's OK w/ that. Crunched bones for sure, but is
> this enough time?

Yes, it's enough time. Don't compare dog manners to human manners.
They are two different species with two different sets of customs
and behaviors.

You did say one thing that bothers me greatly. It's a pet peeve of
mine. I suggest that you don't "take it away just to be sure she's
OK w/ that." More often than not people cause the very problem they
are trying to avoid using techniques like that. Do it enough and
one time she won't be ok with it. What do you do then? Leave her
alone and let her eat in peace. Give her food and get out of her
way. Stand across the room and don't hover over her.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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6.1. Turkey
Posted by: "John" salgonza@sbcglobal.net salgonza22
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:35 pm ((PST))

+++Mod note: please sign your emails ++++++++++

Ok, so my question is this.

There was a sale here on any turkey $10 the day after thanksgiving. I
got 3 22-25lbs turkeys for $30.

Well at the moment i only had enough room in my freezer for 2 whole
turkeys. And the 3rd i sectioned. My quesiton is the whole turkey's
can i defrost them section them and refreeze them. Will it be safe at
a later day defrost them after the've been sectioned to feed to the dog?

Messages in this topic (74)
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6.2. Re: Turkey
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:52 pm ((PST))

"John" <salgonza@...> wrote:
> My quesiton is the whole turkey's
> can i defrost them section them and refreeze them
*****
Oh my goodness yes!

Will it be safe at
> a later day defrost them after the've been sectioned to feed to the
dog?
*****
Absotively posilutely yes.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (74)
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6.3. Re: Turkey
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:29 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "John" <salgonza@...> wrote:
>
> My quesiton is the whole turkey's
> can i defrost them section them and refreeze them.

Absolutely 100% yes. I do it all the time.

> Will it be safe at
> a later day defrost them after the've been sectioned to feed to
> the dog?

Yes! You can defrost them, refreeze them, defrost them again and
refreeze them again a whole big bunch of times and its still
safe. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (74)
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6.4. Re: Turkey
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:29 am ((PST))

In a message dated 11/25/2007 8:36:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,
salgonza@sbcglobal.net writes:

Well at the moment i only had enough room in my freezer for 2 whole
turkeys. And the 3rd i sectioned. My quesiton is the whole turkey's
can i defrost them section them and refreeze them. Will it be safe at
a later day defrost them after the've been sectioned to feed to the dog?

****yes.. you can thaw, cut, repackage and refreeze as often as you want to
for the dogs. People don't do this because it alters the taste and dries out
the meat, dogs don't care what it tastes like as long as it's MEAT.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (74)
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7a. Re: Kathy intro-premix raw concerns
Posted by: "gudrun032150" gudrun032150@yahoo.com gudrun032150
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:36 pm ((PST))

The company in question is called Feed This. They sell food by the
pound, or they have "diets". The diet suggested for Odie is:
1 day of raw meaty bones
5 days raw meaty bones w/beef
Bogie balls (made of muscle meats, eggs, veggies (seasonal/organic),
organ & other meats.)
Chicken Feet
suggested one day of fasting, but not a necessity

The supplements are kelp, alfalfa, garlic, ginger, grapefruit seed
extract. Even months: red clover, nettle, sheep sorrell, chamomile,
celery seed. Odd months: dandelion, milk thistle seed, pumpkin seed,
burdock.

All meat is organic, from local businesses.

I could purchase the food in bulk, or packed for convenience, which is
how i thought i start out. The food is all raw, delivered to my
door--a month at a time. I freeze and thaw as needed.

so it's not a product, per say, because it's really all the stuff you
feed on the diet. I'm just not going to the butcher etc. Which, if i
like this diet, i know i would do in time. What i like is that all the
meat is organic, something not easy to come by in a small town.

That being said, i am quite nervous about starting this diet. Esp.
because Odie is a food gorper--he inhales his meals.

kathy shearn

> You say you have found a company who "makes a wonderful product", I
am concerned because the basis for most who seek to feed raw is
returning to nature. Mother nature "makes" all the food we need,
perfectly ...all we have to do to feed is hand it to the dog. Some
premixes come with high fruit and/or veggie content along with other
processed nasties. The whole idea when switching to raw is getting
away from the processed food and getting back to the perfect foods
mother nature has already created.
>
> Michelle Radcliff
> Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
> http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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7b. Re: Kathy intro-premix raw concerns
Posted by: "recyclerat@aol.com" recyclerat@aol.com syrusmommy
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:56 pm ((PST))

The company in question is called Feed This. They sell food by the
pound, or they have "diets".

i've just got to be nosy! how much per month is this??

maybe momma needs a home buisness!

.heather.

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7c. Re: Kathy intro-premix raw concerns
Posted by: "recyclerat@aol.com" recyclerat@aol.com syrusmommy
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:28 am ((PST))

This is how i meant my last email to look...sorry bout that.

The company in question is called Feed This. They sell food by the
pound, or they have "diets".

**************************************************

i've just got to be nosy! how much per month is this??

maybe momma needs a home buisness!


.heather.

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7d. Re: Kathy intro-premix raw concerns
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:29 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "gudrun032150" <gudrun032150@...>
wrote:
>
> The company in question is called Feed This. They sell food by the
> pound, or they have "diets". The diet suggested for Odie is:

Who suggested this diet? What information did they base thier
suggestion on?

> 1 day of raw meaty bones

What raw meaty bones? Chicken? Turkey? Pork? beef? lamb?

> Bogie balls (made of muscle meats, eggs, veggies
> (seasonal/organic), organ & other meats.)

What meats? Veggies just aren't needed. Dogs are carnivores. They
have no need for veggies. I think these people are just taking your
money with this product.

> Chicken Feet
> suggested one day of fasting, but not a necessity

Chicken feet are kinda like snacks.

> The supplements are kelp, alfalfa, garlic, ginger, grapefruit seed
> extract. Even months: red clover, nettle, sheep sorrell, chamomile,
> celery seed. Odd months: dandelion, milk thistle seed,
> pumpkin seed, burdock.

These people are really taking your money here. Not a single one of
those supplements are needed nor desired.

> All meat is organic, from local businesses.

Thats the only good thing I've seen about these people, however in
my book, "organic" is highly over rated.

> I could purchase the food in bulk, or packed for
> convenience, which is how i thought i start out.

Good, I wouldn't get too tied in with these people.

> The food is all raw, delivered to my
> door--a month at a time. I freeze and thaw as needed.

You must be married to a rock star. That stuff has got to be
expensive!

> so it's not a product, per say, because it's really all the
> stuff you feed on the diet.

You obviously have a terrible misconception here. THere is not
really all that much stuff to feed. Raw meat, bones, and organs
from a variety of animals. Nothing else. No fruits, no veggies, no
grains, no supplements, nothing else. It couldn't be any simpler.
A cave man could do it. :)

> I'm just not going to the butcher etc. Which, if i
> like this diet, i know i would do in time.

You are going to like the diet, don't worry. You won't like feeding
all the unnecessary these folks recommend but feeding raw meat,
bones, and organs is a snap and you will be able to tell the
difference in your dogs very quickly.

> What i like is that all the
> meat is organic, something not easy to come by in a small town.

Well, there are other places you can buy organic meat and again, I
think it is highly over rated.

> That being said, i am quite nervous about starting this diet. Esp.
> because Odie is a food gorper--he inhales his meals.

You'll only be nervous for a couple of weeks. Once you see how
simple it is and how well he eats bones, you will gain a lot of
confidence.

Don't expect dogs to have human manners when they eat. They are
dogs. I'm betting he will slow down once he gets used to eating
raw. Most do.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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8a. Re: Excessive urinating
Posted by: "recyclerat@aol.com" recyclerat@aol.com syrusmommy
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:36 pm ((PST))

when the dog squats to pee but nothing comes out...or just a dribble.

.heather.

Thank you for your response...Would you mind explain what exactly
means "dribble with no output" please? Thanx again
_eu_azi@yahoo.eu__ (mailto:eu_azi@yahoo.com)

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8b. Re: Excessive urinating
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:29 am ((PST))

In a message dated 11/25/2007 8:36:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, re
cyclerat@aol.com writes:

when the dog squats to pee but nothing comes out...or just a dribble.

Heather,

i know that most folks don't think they do it, but female dogs "mark" also.
they squat many times and dribble just enough to leave a scent, especially
just before and during their "heat" cycle.

Catherine R.

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9.1. Re: Newbie intro
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:36 pm ((PST))

"gudrun032150" <gudrun032150@...> wrote:
> I lost my beloved Dobies to cancer; one this past April (lymphoma)
and
> one two and a half years ago (Hemangiosarcoma.) Another Dobie was
lost
> to cardiomyopathy. One guy lived to about 13! And two terrier mutts
> lived to 14 & 16!
*****
Last year, after having fed them raw for at least six years, three of
my dogs died directly or indirectly of cancer. As much of an
improvement raw is over kibble, it cannot undo all damage we have
done to our dogs. Yes, most definitely feed your dogs a good species
appropriate diet. Do it because it's what they should be eating. If
all the varied pieces of life don't fall perfectly together because
of it though, don't feel as if you've failed.

> I am interested in raw feeding, and have contacted a company in
> sonoma, Feed This, who have a wonderful product.
*****
Raw food is not about "a" wonderful product. It's about whole meats,
edible bone, and organs. No veggies, no fruits, no grains, no de
rigueur supplements. No mixes, no blends, no pre-fab anything. It's
about body parts and protein variety. There's nothing magic or
exclusive or difficult about finding the elements of a good raw
diet.

Most of us buy at least some portion of the menu from supermarkets.
Other sources are meat wholesalers, farmers markets, ethnic markets
and ranch/farm direct. (Some people raise their own food.)
Specialty stores that do the buying for you--and provide you with
menus based on someone else's notion of what is best for your dog--
may seem like salvation at first glance but they are making choices
you should be making and they are charging you a bloody fortune for
doing what you can easily be doing yourself.

That their recipes are approved by Kymythy Schultze is not terribly
reassuring, frankly. While Ms Schultze appears to understand that
dogs are carnviores, her follow through is pretty weak. Talk,
apparently, is cheap. A good raw diet (one she professes to feed,
actually) does not include above or below ground veggies, nor ground
nuts nor chopped greens nor alfalfa nor kelp. It's unfortunate
enough that a person might choose to purchase these items to prepare
raw food; it's a real steal for a business to foist them upon its
customers. Think twice about this "source".

while also giving me her few
> warnings: choking on bones, "raging" diarrhea (very occasionally)
and
> broken teeth.
*****
Raging diarrhea is not likely caused by diet; rather diarrhea is
generally an indication of bacterial overgrowth for some reason.
Loose stools, which are characterized by the dog's ability to "hold
it", are most frequently a result of too much food, too much fat, or
too much too, too quickly. Yes, there have been cases of raging
diarrhea, but they've either been misnamed loose stools or a result
of non-diet circustances.

Choking is minimized by feeding the proper size bones and by being an
alert and responsive raw feeder. Choking is also possible from
kibble as well as toys, articles of clothing, and building
materials. Raw food does not have a lock on the phenomenon.

Broken teeth can also happen to dogs that never taste raw food.
Inappropriate chewing is the major cause; not offering cow leg bones
(not femurs, not knuckles, not soup bones, not marrow bones) is the
easiest way to reduce the possibility.

Perhaps a better way to sum up the host of potential threats to the
rawfed dog is to say that nothing is for sure, there are no
guarantees, and sh** happens.

You might want to take a gander at http://rawfeddogs.net to see how
many are feeding their dogs.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (27)
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10a. Re: Salmon Oil/How much???
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:47 pm ((PST))

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> hi.I thought 1000mg Salmon oil cap per 20lb body weight for
maintanance level dose.
*****
Since the origin of the recommendations is somewhat vague, I think one
can use /30 pounds or /20 pounds as one sees fit. It's hardly a
formula and it is more about the dog than anything else. FWIW, I give
my 32lb dog one 1000mg capsule a day as "maintenance".
Chris O

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11. Buying from the source
Posted by: "the swamp witch" theswampwitch@gmail.com mafiaswampwitch
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:28 am ((PST))

Many of the posts I read talk about stocking up on meat at sales at the
grocer. Can anyone offer some words of wisdom about buying from the source.
For example, would it be worth the effort to buy a quarter cow, or will I
get a comparable price from buying sales? I like the idea of buying local,
but I also cannot afford to put myself in debt feeding raw. We will soon
have an extra freezer, so I am contemplating sourcing our meats straight off
the farm. What kind of hassle is it to get the animal processed, etc? Thanks
for any words of wisdom as we sort through this decision.
Regards,
Jennifer H.
P.S. I am already on the Carnivore Supplier yahoo group, but I am hoping for
some been there done that advice. Cheers!

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12. Making the switch
Posted by: "paula.0666" roogirl@adam.com.au paula.0666
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:28 am ((PST))

Hello, I'm new and I apologise if this has been asked a thousand
times, but is it okay to switch a dog straight to all raw feeding or
should there be a transitional phase? Thank you and kind regards -
Paula

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13. Supplementing with premade raw?
Posted by: "jordan_spiva" jordan_spiva@yahoo.com jordan_spiva
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:29 am ((PST))

I feed my dog a diet of raw meaty bones from a variety of different animals. And I give THREE
Nature's Variety raw medallions(3 ounces, each medallion is one ounce). My dog still gets
85-90% raw meaty bones. It wont hurt. would it? I use the premade as a supplement because
my mom HATES the smell of tripe and organs which ushually complete a raw diet. I don't
blame her. it reeks!
Plus I use it because venison and duck are really hard to find. Plus even the website I buy
from is always out of venison and duck because so many people are crazy about feeding it to
their dogs. so I use the venison and duck medallions. so yeah will that hurt? He's doing just
fine on this diet now. I am getting nothing but positive comments from my vet after every
checkup. If you want to suggest flicking off the premade,what should I use to replace it
(besides tripe).

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14. Re: support when making the switch
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:29 am ((PST))

>>They simply wished to strike out, but did not allow me to share my
knowledge with them. I got up from the table and just left the
room. :-(
*****
The only thing you could have done, actually. In similar situations
I have dumped coffee on people's heads, so leaving really was a
better choice.<<

Oh, geez, Chris, did you really dump coffee on people's heads over rawfeeding??? LOL -- sorry, but I can indeed picture it! I've never done that, but like others who have responded, I have gotten lectures, warnings, etc. I used to debate/argue/disagree with them, but now I simply shake my head sadly and walk away. Ignorance is a choice. . . it's just not *my* choice.

>> As long as they limit their abuse to verbal and don't
mess with your dogs, you can get along, I think. You are doing the
right thing, they are being fools...family is not an easy concept.<<

Agreed! We're all here for support, and you can do this!! I'm sorry that your family members are all being jerks, but it's their loss. And your dogs are the important pieces of this puzzle anyway.

-- Anne and the PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue

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15a. Re: Support when making the switch?
Posted by: "Eddie Scholten" shirl-ed@hotmail.com shirley11964
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:59 am ((PST))

Yes, I've now got lack of support issues causing arguments today!

Our 8 wks GR puppy still has loose stools since we began feeding him raw when we brought him home 6 days ago. Now, my fiance (who happily agreed to feed raw - but never did any research on the subject himself) is telling me that if the stools don't improve he will take the puppy off raw and seek vet advice! We know what the vet will say, don't we!

I'm very angry because it's only been 6 days and the pup shows no signs of ill-health (unless loose stools alone indicate illness?) - he eats happily and with always the sense that he wants more food than I give him right now, and he looks good, he smells wonderful now (he stank when we got him last week: skin/fur, breath & stools were all smelly, the same smell as the breeder's other dogs, which are all processed-fed) and even the continuing loose stools don't smell unless you get up-close-and-personal with them, but even then, it's not offensive, just a slight odour.

I am very keen to continue on raw, of course, because for me there is simply NO alternative to it. I just know I haven't got the balance right yet and he's still adjusting to raw.

Am I feeding him too much?

I give him either a whole chicken leg and half a chicken back (no skin on any of it) or he has half a leg and a whole chicken back per day. I gave him a small amount of breast meat and a wing last night, for his 3rd meal. I divide always into 3 meals.

He eats well, chewing and crunching with no obvious issues at all.

Always grateful for advice and support.

Shirley (and Floris).

To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.comFrom: carnesw@bellsouth.netDate: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 20:31:38 +0000Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Support when making the switch?

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Michelle R <crested_dog8@...> wrote:>> Hello, Michelle here. I have a question and sorry if this> is offtopic. I am wondering what sort of problems you folks> faced from family and friends when switching to raw?Look at the bright side. Since your kitchen is going to be so nasty with all those germs and e-coli and salmonella and stuff, the family won't want you to cook for them anymore. :) :) :) :) :)Bill Carneshttp://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htmFeeding Raw since October 2002"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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