[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12307

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Does this sound okay for a feeding plan?
From: carnesbill

2a. Re: only eats with people
From: MORGAN LEWIS

3a. Re: Bad Breath
From: vickies_28
3b. Re: Bad Breath
From: Sandee Lee

4a. Re: Need to share the excitement!!
From: Loraine Jesse
4b. Re: Need to share the excitement!!
From: jennifer_hell

5a. Re: Bacteria and raw feeding.
From: Daisy Foxworth
5b. Re: Bacteria and raw feeding.
From: Shelly
5c. Re: Bacteria and raw feeding.
From: Denise Strother
5d. Re: Bacteria and raw feeding.
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski
5e. Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
From: costrowski75
5f. Re: Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski
5g. Re: Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
From: judy tallant
5h. Re: Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
From: Yasuko herron
5i. Re: Bacteria and raw feeding.
From: ada
5j. Re: Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski
5k. Re: Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
From: bluegracepwd
5l. Re: Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
From: judy tallant
5m. Re: Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
From: Yasuko herron

6.1. new to raw feeding
From: tiffany.contempopainting
6.2. Re: new to raw feeding
From: Sandee Lee

7a. Dr. Pitcairn's recipe questions
From: A.
7b. Re: Dr. Pitcairn's recipe questions
From: jennifer_hell
7c. Re: Dr. Pitcairn's recipe questions
From: Anntiga@aol.com
7d. Re: Dr. Pitcairn's recipe questions
From: carnesbill

Messages
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1a. Re: Does this sound okay for a feeding plan?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:08 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer" <jenniferfoeller@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm just starting to look into feeding raw to my dogs and cats.

I would feed whole mice 3 or 4 days a week. It would be a great food
for your cats. Mine eat wild mice, rats and other critters several
times a week. I wouldn't feed chicken backs. I usually feed chicken
drumsticks to my cats. Sometimes wings but usually drumsticks are
cheaper. I also feed them some of whatever I'm feeding my dogs.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: only eats with people
Posted by: "MORGAN LEWIS" shadowland22000@yahoo.com shadowland22000
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:08 am ((PST))

I agree, I feed at night and it is the most relaxing part of the day. Morgan

hiideel <hiideel@yahoo.com> wrote: We, unfortunately, do not have the time to watch him all the time
(especially in the morning) as it takes him a good 10 minutes to
eat. I check on him through the window as I am doing my morning
routine which includes preparing raw food for our other animals.

Thanks for the response though,
Heidi

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Shelly <StuartLittle@...> wrote:
>
> Why not just stand outside with him all the time? We sit outside
and watch
> our dogs eat every day while we have our morning coffee. We really
enjoy
> watching them enjoy their food.
>
> Shelly
>
> On Thursday 22 November 2007 15:03, hiideel wrote:
> Hi,
> .......
> More recently he has been refusing to eat unless we go outside and
> stand there with him. ......
> ....The longest he has gone without eating is 1-2 days and then we
cave in and
> stand outside with him!
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Heidi
>

Morgan and His Angels
Precious, OFA
Princess, CGC, TDI, GSDCA Health Award

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Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: Bad Breath
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:08 am ((PST))

Hi Sandee
Could you be more specific on the size of the slab of ribs? I never
saw anyting bigger than 2 lbs in my local supermarket. And these were
pork ribs, which are soft, he eats them all completely. Are you
talking about beef ribs? I don't know where to find them.
So I got it - ditch the organs and cottage cheese. By the way,
someone else suggested that I started feeding something recently
that's not agreeing with him - honestly, I cannot remember. So I will
go to all chicken with no organs and not cheese. What about turkey
necks? They are pretty much like chicken right? And I stocked up
during holiday season :)
Also, not sure if it matters, but he threw up bile today in the
morning before breakfast. COuld the breath be an indicator of a
stomack problem?
Vickie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Vickie,
>
> Slabs of ribs don't have much meat but would give him the exercise
of
> ripping and tearing. You can throw the bones away when he's done
with that
> activity, so it wouldn't be a huge meal. You might just have to
give him
> something large and take it away when you know he's had enough.
Items that
> are good for tooth cleaning are some of the pork roasts (hams
especially
> have a tough layer of fat), beef cheeks, heart and tripe are pretty
chewy,
> or any larger bones with lots of meat that has to be torn off.
>
> I'm wondering if 8 months is too early to go to one meal a day?
That way
> you could feed one nice large consuming meal...maybe even a small
snack
> later if necessary? I'm not sure about that....I don't do
puppies!! :))
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "vickies_28" <vickies_28@...>
> Slabs or ribs? Like how big exactly? I cannot give him anything
larger
> than 1 meal size - he doesn't stop when he's had enough and will
> continue eating. And with large chunks of boneless meat - again how
big
> exactly, lbs I mean? I tried 1 lbs of beef no bone and he eat it in
2
> min chewed a bit, so I was comfortable enough to turn away, but
after a
> couple of chews - it was all gone. That means he swallowed it. What
are
> the dental benefits of swallowing?
> Are you saying you want me to give him like 3-5 lbs worth of rib
slab?
> How is that possible exactly?
> Thanks
> Vickie
>
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@> wrote:
> >
> > So he has lost his puppy teeth and has all of the adult teeth in?
> Are his
> > gums red?
> >
> > You may need to feed him some larger items that he has to work at
in
> order
> > to get the flossing action and dental benefits. Slabs of ribs,
large
> chunks
> > of meat that he has to sink those teeth in....that type of thing.
> >
> > Sandee & the Dane Gang
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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> ----
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1145 - Release Date:
11/22/2007
> 11:49 AM
>

Messages in this topic (14)
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3b. Re: Bad Breath
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:32 am ((PST))

Yes, I meant beef ribs which he would have to rip and tear to get the good
stuff off, but wouldn't be able to consume the bone. That would give him the
tooth-cleaning exercise without providing too much food. Not certain how
many pounds would be appropriate, but you want several ribs, not
individuals.

I'm not certain why you mentioned ditching organs and feeding all chicken?
Turkey necks should give him a good chew *if* he doesn't try to gulp! Have
you fed them previously?

Bile generally means he has an empty stomach which is anticipating food! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "vickies_28" <vickies_28@yahoo.com>
Could you be more specific on the size of the slab of ribs? I never
saw anyting bigger than 2 lbs in my local supermarket. And these were
pork ribs, which are soft, he eats them all completely. Are you
talking about beef ribs? I don't know where to find them.
So I got it - ditch the organs and cottage cheese. By the way,
someone else suggested that I started feeding something recently
that's not agreeing with him - honestly, I cannot remember. So I will
go to all chicken with no organs and not cheese. What about turkey
necks? They are pretty much like chicken right? And I stocked up
during holiday season :)
Also, not sure if it matters, but he threw up bile today in the
morning before breakfast. COuld the breath be an indicator of a
stomack problem?
Vickie

Messages in this topic (14)
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4a. Re: Need to share the excitement!!
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:08 am ((PST))

"don't know anybody else who understands how great this is, lol!!"

Oh Yes I do. I would be thrilled in the same situation and must admit that when I find a deal on any kind of meat that I am thrilled to bits.
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

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Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: Need to share the excitement!!
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:32 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Eddie Scholten <shirl-ed@...> wrote:
We often go shopping in Germany, usually to Kleve. But anywhere
within a reasonable distance is always do-able.
>
> Shirley (Ed, Connor & Floris in Westervoort).

Shirley, we're near Cologne. I believe that's quite a stretch for you?
Have you checked your area? I found this source through my butcher,
who gives me a lot of free range beef for little money too.

Jennifer with Mandy

Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: Bacteria and raw feeding.
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:31 am ((PST))

No problems in my household, and I would say that we are very careless
about hygiene.

Daisy

Messages in this topic (19)
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5b. Re: Bacteria and raw feeding.
Posted by: "Shelly" StuartLittle@comcast.net stuartjeanlittle
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:54 am ((PST))

I got campylobacter once, years ago from chicken I got from Safeway. Apparently, a drop of the chicken "juice" must have dripped onto my nearby food. Only reason I know it came from the chicken is that I got a visit from the health dept., they were tracking all cases of campylobactor (apparently the clinic I went to had to report it to the health dept.). The chicken was the thing in common with others in the area who had had it, and I did remember having some people food nearby when I was dividing up the chicken for my dogs. This could have happened whether I was preparing the chicken for us or feeding it to the dogs. I didn't even mention to the health dept. that I was giving the chicken to the dogs, it didn't matter. The point is, my dogs did eat the chicken, one drop of which made me really, really sick, and it didn't bother them in the least.

Shelly

On Thursday 22 November 2007 20:08, johkemp wrote:

Not one person that responded had had any problems while feeding raw,
and I would be interested to know if anyone on this forum had
experienced bacterial or parasitic problems and if the source could be
identified.

Thanks in advance,

Joh
1 raw fed dog and 3 cats.

--
"A house without either a cat or a dog is the house of a scoundrel."

Portuguese Proverb

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Messages in this topic (19)
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5c. Re: Bacteria and raw feeding.
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:35 am ((PST))

Same here. And I have 7 grandchildren, from 10 to almost 2yrs old, who
visit me often. My two daughters feed raw and they each have 2 kids
the other 3 are my son's and they have no dog. I also foster and do
dog daycare, so there is every chance provided for bacteria to
flourish. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Daisy Foxworth"
<daisyfoxworth@...> wrote:
No problems in my household, and I would say that we are very careless
about hygiene.
Daisy

Messages in this topic (19)
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5d. Re: Bacteria and raw feeding.
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:52 am ((PST))

i have to admit, i handle raw meat rather carelessly. If it weren't for the fact that raw chicken makes my hands itch really badly, i would probably forget to wash them. if it's for the dogs, no i don't wash the knife between meat and veggies, and unless their bowls have stuck on crap, they only get cleaned once a week.
no one in my house, not me or the dogs or cats has ever gotten sick from any food, of food contamination.
Sure, i need to be more careful, but i also think "safe handling" is a bit overrated, like hand sanitizer.
mallory


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Messages in this topic (19)
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5e. Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:06 am ((PST))

Mallory Kwiatkowski <m_k_jesusfreak3@...> wrote:
if it's for the dogs, no i don't wash the knife between meat and
veggies, and unless their bowls have stuck on crap, they only get
cleaned once a week.
*****
Mallory, how do veggies fit into your dogs' diet?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (19)
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5f. Re: Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:25 am ((PST))

vary sparingly. It's more for things like if someone has loose stools, i put in some pumpkin filling, or the pups i have now with some worms, i am giving carrots and beets.
I know they don't need veggies, but my dogs like them, especially bananas and bell peppers, so i give it to them. if i have carrots(for the bunnies) they freak out begging for them, i can give bart a carrot in his crate instead of a treat or bone, he loves them.
mallory


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5g. Re: Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
Posted by: "judy tallant" judy@tallant.com judyltallant
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:59 am ((PST))

Hello all-

I am new to this list but have fed partial to full raw on and off for
some time - now making a commitment to feed FT permanent carnivore
model diet. I have golden retrievers who also love fruit and veggies.
And not just what I feed them. I have plum trees and blackberries -
and when the fruit is in season, my little piggies gorge on whatever
they can reach or that falls to the ground. They've eaten pears,
apples, and all sorts of other fruits and berries they've foraged,
and I can not prepare apples, winter squash, broccoli, carrots,
romaine, asparagus or yams without them being obnoxious about wanting
the trim.

What's the general philosophy behind this? Is this natural or
conditioning? And should I discourage it?

> ary sparingly. It's more for things like if someone has loose
> stools, i put in some pumpkin filling, or the pups i have now with
> some worms, i am giving carrots and beets.
> I know they don't need veggies, but my dogs like them, especially
> bananas and bell peppers, so i give it to them. if i have carrots
> (for the bunnies) they freak out begging for them, i can give bart
> a carrot in his crate instead of a treat or bone, he loves them.
> mallory

Judy Tallant
Snohomish, Wa

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Messages in this topic (19)
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5h. Re: Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:00 pm ((PST))

> It's more for things like if someone has loose stools, i put in some pumpkin filling,

Hi,Mallory. you do not feed pumpkin filling to dogs. People who feed pumpkin for firming poo use pure pumpkin puree or simply buy fresh pumpkin and cook andmush and give to dog not the one with bunch of spices in it.but these method is more likely used among home-made diet people not among us;the raw feeders.

Do you know why they use pumpkin?? They use fiber in it to firm the poo.

But we feed bone that gives calcium and more nutrient that dog can uterize and,bone does the same thing;firm the poo.

Too much pumpkin does make poo more loose if you feed too much and since you feed bone as well,if you fed too much,you either end up comstipated dog or loose poo dog even if you feed pumpkin.

Well,pumpkin is veg and veg has Vitamin A quite a lot.Too much vitamin A is not great for dog.Like vitamin B,C,if dog could flash out in urine if fed too much,that is great but Vitamin A is not going to be flashed out but stored in body.So,if you keep feeding Vitamin A with high IU all thetime,eventually, it becomes toxic.

>or the pups i have now with some worms, i am giving carrots and beets.

Well,carrots and beets are mostly sugar.Much more sugar than other veg.These are avoided by dogs with diabetic.

Anyway,why theseare good for worms?? Do you have any link that I can read about? I am interested to know why veg like this are good to treat worms.

And,are you feeding carrots cooked and pureed?? If you give veg to dog andif you want them to use tiny bit of nutrients there,then,you need to puree after cooking.Otherwise,they just poop out without any nutrients out of it.

Even if pureeed,I am not sure how much it is used.

Raw veg has cell wall that dog cannot break on their own so,you need to break them for them.

But if dog cannot uterize as much as meat,is it worth feeding them??

> bananas and bell peppers, so i give it to them.

Now, banana is fruits and fruits has quite lot of sugar in it. I would not feed daily.
For bell peppers,your dog has no arthritis prob?? Bell peppers,Eggplant,tomato,potato are things dog with arthritis should avoid. They aggreviate the inflamation and not great.

Each veg has some good points,bad points andsome you need to avoid at all even if dog likes it. I know that Dalmatian dogs better off avoiding sardine and Asparagus because of Purine level to avoid stone formation.

>if i have carrots(for the bunnies) they freak out begging for them, i can give bart a carrot in >his crate instead of a treat or bone, he loves them.

I rather not give tons of carrots,andnot going to give treats full of preservative,and I do not give smoked bone you can get at pet stores.

I give bully sticks or lamb ear chew or Deer Antler for amusement and, some fleece toys etc in house and,other treat is chopped frozen lentil-sized flank steak for training.

yassy

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5i. Re: Bacteria and raw feeding.
Posted by: "ada" mom2moz@yahoo.com mom2moz
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

--- johkemp <johkemp@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> A question was asked on Yahoo Answers the other day
> in regards to whether any raw feeders had
> experienced problems with bacteria and other
> pathogens.... and I would be interested to know if
> anyone on this forum had experienced bacterial or
> parasitic problems and if the source could be
> identified.
>
Into my fifth year of RAWfeeding (2 dogs), and no
bacterial, parasitic, or pathogenic problems related
to RAW. But, having fought MRSA with two family
members in the past few years, I *am* germ-a-phobic
and so keep a pretty strict cleaning ritual. Source
of MRSA: hospital, post surgery - both times.

ada
mo (silkie/shih-tzu/maltese mutt) & abbie (yorkie)

"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole." ~ Roger Caras

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5j. Re: Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

my dogs are very young, the oldest not even 4 years, no one has arthritis. I do not feed veggies or fruit every day. Just because veggies and fruit aren't needed by a dog does not mean they should never have them. should i correct my dogs for eating grass? no.
I don't use the pie filling with sugar or spices, just pure pumpkin guts. And not a lot. The enzymes in beets and carrots eat away at the outer covering of worms. They may have a lot of sugar, but it's not something you eat everyday. It is good for light infestations so you don't have to give toxic dewormers.
Sure, wild dogs may not activelly seek out plant matter, but if they come across it, they will eat it. I don't feed these things everyday, but when i have them, i will give them a little. there are 2 of mine that won't eat them anyway. But a couple love fruits and veggies, so every once in a while they get some.
most of this info can be found in the book "Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats"
mallory


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5k. Re: Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
Posted by: "bluegracepwd" janea@tpg.com.au bluegracepwd
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:28 pm ((PST))

Hi Judy,

the fruits and vegetables of today hardly mimic the type or quality
of that which a dog would find in the wild. eg: plums today are a
result of careful breeding where only the sweetest and plumpest are
grown. 500 years ago, you'd be lucky to find one plum tree in a
whole area, and the plums would have been small, few of them, and
rarely the sweet variety.

There is a huge difference between what a dog should eat vs what
they can eat. If we use the approach that if a dog eats something,
we should provide it regularly, then I would be feeding mine daily a
car manual from my Honda CRV, which apparently is quite tasty.

As a dog is a carnivore, items with a high sugar content is not
appropriate for their diet.

I feed no fruit nor veggies nor grains in anything that my guys get,
but heck I can't even grow a fruit tree in the drought we've now got
here.

with thanks,

Jane
www.bluegrace.com

Messages in this topic (19)
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5l. Re: Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
Posted by: "judy tallant" judy@tallant.com judyltallant
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:44 pm ((PST))

Excellent point! And on that note, mine would also be fed dirty
socks, dishtowels, paper, vinyl, and the fiberfill that stuffs their
favorite toys.

And yes, as a professional culinarian, I am quite familiar with
heirloom vs hybridized veggies and fruits.

On Nov 23, 2007, at 12:28 PM, bluegracepwd wrote:

> There is a huge difference between what a dog should eat vs what
> they can eat. If we use the approach that if a dog eats something,
> we should provide it regularly, then I would be feeding mine daily a
> car manual from my Honda CRV, which apparently is quite tasty.

Judy Tallant
Snohomish, Wa

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5m. Re: Veggies was Bacteria and raw feeding.
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:48 pm ((PST))

> I do not feed veggies or fruit every day.

Hi. Incidentally,I didread the book of pitcairn before so,I did look it up. On page 424,it does say raw grated carrots,turnip and beets.

Now,you say that you do not feed veg daily but if you do follow his remedy using these,it says that "give to daily fare",which means,you are suppose to feed tiny bit of those veg daily.Otherwise,I do not think even if you follow this,you would not see the result as you should have.I am not sure if this really works.

But you need good diet for dog and build healthy immune system for them.

I am not giving any spot on to my dog and giving just good rawdiet and,she 2 years old is healthy as horse now:-P Since she likes garlic,she gets it occasinally(half clove of grated raw garlic to meal) but not as often as I did and I can say that she gets nothing that I give daily or weekly or wahtever for flea or worms etc..only oncein a while.

I used to do cloud nine dip spray to go outside for insect repell but not doing it for long time and she got good review on health from vet we recently visited for annual check and the vet was amazed for pearly white teeth and coat etc.. I am glad. we checked lyme and heratworm too but all came back negative too even if I gave almost zero garlic in meal and non spot on ortab monthly.And I did fecal test too but,our dog had no worms too.That means,the diet that I give is bringing her immune system stronger and I really believe that if you feed good diet,you need no supplement except fish body oil.

>Just because veggies and fruit aren't needed by a dog does not mean they should never have them.

Well.. if it were tiny little and occasinary,I see no prob. It just that I feel that we need to watch out for not giving too much for one thing or the other andshould know a little about what each veg/fruit has as function and try not to feed it if it cause prob in dog.
Some veg has interfere absorbing calcium such as greenbeans.Some has purine prob andsome can aggreviate arthritis,some veg should be avoided for dog with certain prob...

What I meant was,veg or fruits or pasta or grain etc should not be center of diet andshould not dominating over the meat,organ,bone%.Tiny bit occasionary would be ok.but I rather give meat piece for treat more than veg.

>should i correct my dogs for eating grass? no.

If it were not near cowpies or swamp area,I would not interfere eating grass actually.Grass(lawn) is good source of alphalpha and it has other mineral too.So,I let my dog graze if she wanted to.We do not pesticide the grass too,so,that is fine.

>But a couple love fruits and veggies, so every once in a while they get some.
most of this info can be found in the book "Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats"

My dog is wiered dog,lol. When I eat pomegrante fruits,she goes nuts.Maybe fruit issweet so,dogs maybe like them.

Since I only know it is good anti oxidant,and being a fruit,and nothing else,so,I just give 2 kennels of pome to palette;our dog,and that is all she gets that time and nothing more for following day etc. She is ok with it because she enjoy meaty meal later on.Our focus is on main meat bone organ meal.

yassy

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6.1. new to raw feeding
Posted by: "tiffany.contempopainting" tiffcurran@gmail.com tiffany.contempopainting
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:07 am ((PST))

Hi everyone.I am new to feeding my dogs a raw diet. I have a 3 year old beagle and a 4 year old chi mix. I adopted them both from shelters. As far as I know they have always been fed kibble. I tried them with raw and they either don't touch it or chew it then spit it out and rub themselves in it. I afraid because their not really eating. Also how many times a day should I feed them. The kibble they were getting once a day. Any help would be appreciated.
Tiffany

Messages in this topic (74)
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6.2. Re: new to raw feeding
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:37 am ((PST))

Tiffany,

What exactly have you tried feeding them? Raw food, especially chicken, is
quite bland compared to kibble so if you have some in your house, get rid of
it. Then you many need to "stink up" the chicken parts a bit. You can do
this by quickly searing the outside, warming it (in a bag in warm water),
slicing into the meat to give a starting place and also release the odor,
sprinkling with Parmesan, etc.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "tiffany.contempopainting" <tiffcurran@gmail.com>

Hi everyone.I am new to feeding my dogs a raw diet. I have a 3 year old
beagle and a 4 year old chi mix. I adopted them both from shelters. As far
as I know they have always been fed kibble. I tried them with raw and they
either don't touch it or chew it then spit it out and rub themselves in it.
I afraid because their not really eating.

Messages in this topic (74)
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7a. Dr. Pitcairn's recipe questions
Posted by: "A." ols@charter.net cesare.1920
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:44 pm ((PST))

I have been looking into putting my dogs (and cat) on a better diet
for awhile now. I have put it off because the raw seems so
complicated and cooking seems like a pain.

Well, with all of our oldest dogs health issues I decided to just go
for it. I found a copy of Dr. Pitcairn's book and decided to start
with that and continue looking into BARF.

A few questions-

1) My copy is from 1982, is the information still accurate or has
the newer books been updated with recent research?

2) I cannot find human grade Bone Meal at any local feed stores.
Where can I order this from?

3) What should I give them in the meantime instead of bone meal?
Would a human grade calcium supplement be ok?

We ran out of dog food and I used it as an excuse to just jump into
this before I changed my mind again. They are doing ok on the food
switch because I have always added meats/veggies/fruits to their
diets throughout the week in addition to kibble.

Any other advice is appreciated!!

Amanda :)

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: Dr. Pitcairn's recipe questions
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:48 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "A." <ols@...> wrote:

> Well, with all of our oldest dogs health issues I decided to just go
> for it. I found a copy of Dr. Pitcairn's book and decided to start
> with that and continue looking into BARF.

Welcome, Amanda!
Have you read the files and the info links, and the messages here?
This is not a barf list, but the raw feeding list. =)

Jennifer

Messages in this topic (4)
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7c. Re: Dr. Pitcairn's recipe questions
Posted by: "Anntiga@aol.com" Anntiga@aol.com anntiga
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:48 pm ((PST))

Hi!

I would suggest forgetting about Dr. Pitcairn's book altogether.

What you want to feed is a prey model style raw diet which is raw meat, raw
bones covered in raw meat and some raw eggs. Zero fruits and zero veggies.

The standard way to start is to feed 2% to 3% of the dog's ideal adult body
weight. A 100 pound dog would be fed 2 to 3 pounds of raw food a day. Once
you have some experience feeding your dog a raw diet you can adjust the
amount depending on how much your dog actually needs.

You want to feed 80% raw meat, 10% raw bone and 10% organ meat (like liver
or kidney).

No ground anything.

You can start off by feeding just one protein if you want. Try chicken
breasts, bone in , skin on. If those work okay then you can add a new kind of
protein after a week or so.

To see what you can feed check out: _http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes_

(http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes)

Click on each individual "recipe" to see what you can feed.

Continue to ask all the questions so you feel comfortable feeding the prey
model raw diet.

Good luck,

Ann and Norman (Portuguese Water Dog)
San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA

"Never underestimate the warmth of a cold nose."

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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7d. Re: Dr. Pitcairn's recipe questions
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:49 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "A." <ols@...> wrote:
>
> I have put it off because the raw seems so
> complicated and cooking seems like a pain.

There is nothing complicated about a proper raw diet. Raw meat,
bones, and organs from a variety of animals. Mostly meat, some bone
and some organs. There, thats all there is to it. No fruits, no
veggies, no suppliments, no anything else is needed nor desired.

> 1) My copy is from 1982, is the information still accurate or has
> the newer books been updated with recent research?

His information was never accurate. There is nothing new. Nothing
has changed in millions of years. You see, if you are going to
write a book on raw feeding, you can put all necessary information
on 3 or 4 pages. You can add another 10 or so pages of fluf but
thats it. To write a full length book, you must add a lot of
unnecessary BS just to fill space. You have to invent stuff and
make up stuff to fill space. You have to make it sound very
complicated to make people think you are smart.

> 2) I cannot find human grade Bone Meal at any local feed stores.
> Where can I order this from?

You don't feed bone meal. No need for it. It CAN clog up the
digestive system.

> 3) What should I give them in the meantime instead of bone meal?

Real bones. Actually bones covered in meat.

> Would a human grade calcium supplement be ok?

No, no supplemental calcium is necessary. Bones supply all that is
needed. Probably more than is needed.

> We ran out of dog food and I used it as an excuse to just
> jump into this before I changed my mind again. They are doing
> ok on the food
> switch because I have always added meats/veggies/fruits to their
> diets throughout the week in addition to kibble.

What are you feeding now? I suspect you need to do some more
research. No need for fruits or veggies. Dogs are carnivores.
Carnivores eat meat, bones, and organs from any animal they can
catch and kill. Omnivores eat both meat and veggies. Dogs aren't
omnivores.

Go back and read past posts on this list. You will see what I'm
talking about.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

>
>
>
> Any other advice is appreciated!!
>
>
> Amanda :)
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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