[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12304

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. turkey insides...
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski
1b. Re: turkey insides...
From: carnesbill
1c. Re: turkey insides...
From: costrowski75
1d. Re: turkey insides...
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski

2a. Re: Big Meat?
From: Laurie Swanson

3a. [rawfeedng]8 week old underweight rescue pups
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski
3b. Re: [rawfeedng]8 week old underweight rescue pups
From: katkellm

4a. Re: Want to start RAW feeding with Papillonþ
From: Laurie Swanson

5a. Re: Advice please-2 days on raw with variety of stools...
From: carnesbill

6a. Re: certain meats cause panting
From: Laurie Swanson
6b. Re: certain meats cause panting
From: carnesbill
6c. Re: certain meats cause panting
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
From: carnesbill

8a. Pork picnic
From: raffiangel2
8b. Re: Pork picnic
From: carnesbill
8c. Re: Pork picnic
From: costrowski75

9a. Are deer bones OK?
From: sfed57
9b. Re: Are deer bones OK?
From: Michelle R
9c. Re: Are deer bones OK?
From: costrowski75

10a. Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
From: mrbob02140
10b. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
From: Anntiga@aol.com

11a. What next?
From: swayzepetsitting
11b. Re: What next?
From: carnesbill

12a. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
From: Affordable Health Insurance

13a. Bad Breath
From: vickies_28

Messages
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1a. turkey insides...
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:35 am ((PST))

can i give my dogs the turkey insides that i scoop out? I know i can, just checking.
also, this is my first thanksgiving turkey, is it goes horribly wrong-can i give it to the dogs and cats as long as it isn't burnt? i know it wouldn't be raw then, but you know.....don't want to waste.
mallory

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Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: turkey insides...
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:17 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Mallory Kwiatkowski
<m_k_jesusfreak3@...> wrote:
>
> can i give my dogs the turkey insides that i scoop out?

Yes, feed the insides. DON'T FEED COOKED BONES under any
circumstances. If it goes all wrong (and I doubt it will, turkey is
pretty hard to mess up) you can pull the meat off the bones and feed
the meat only if you wish. The nutritional value will be lower but
it's ok to feed.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: turkey insides...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:26 am ((PST))

Mallory Kwiatkowski <m_k_jesusfreak3@...> wrote:
>
> can i give my dogs the turkey insides that i scoop out? I know i can,
just checking.
> also, this is my first thanksgiving turkey, is it goes horribly wrong-
can i give it to the dogs and cats as long as it isn't burnt? i know it
wouldn't be raw then, but you know.....don't want to waste.
*****
You should not cook the turkey with the neck and giblets still inside,
if that's what you were thinking of doing. Take the body parts out of
the cavity, feed those raw to your animals. The neck is only part of a
neck, actually; and if you have a gulper the neck may be just the right
size for stupid eating. I give hen necks to my cat. The other parts--
heart, gizzard, liver--can be doled out to each critter that wants some.

With cooked turkey, first off you are likely to have leftovers unless
you are feeding a horde; but leftover turkey is arguably tastier than
turkey at the first eating. Don't automatically feed the carcass
leftovers to your animals. Use what you can of it in sandwiches,
cassaroles, soup, etc. Secondly, too much cooked food, especially
cooked skin/fat, may cause significant digestive distress. If, after
all your efforts to use the bird up, you have remaining scraps, feed
them gradually, perhaps add them in small doses to the otherwise raw
food. You can always freeze leftovers for later use.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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1d. Re: turkey insides...
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:50 am ((PST))

well, i bought a 12 lb bird, for just me(and the critters), so i won't run out for myself, and i love leftovers. My bigger dogs are gulpers, so it would either go to the cats, or probably my rescued puppies.
i know cooked bones are a no-no, but i have to say, for 18 years, we set out the whole bird after we took off the meat we wanted to save. We put it in the yard for our outside cats(we lived in the country)and they always picked it clean...no one choked. I wouldn't do that for the dogs, but these little puppies have underdeveloped jaws and teeth(malnourished), and couldn't bite the bone anyway, but would they benefit from stripping the carcass(for jaw exercise)?
mallory


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Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: Big Meat?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:35 am ((PST))

Hi Debi,

I didn't see anyone mention this...Dogs are basically wolves
anatomically/digestively (although bred to be different sizes and
slightly different shapes). Wolves hunt and kill large game in packs.
So they mostly eat a lot of red meat, supplemented with rabbits,
rodents, wild fowl, fish, etc. when available and necessary. I think
your dog would be happy for the inclusion of deer or meat from other
larger animals.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Debi C" <dcole6@...> wrote:

> JRTs being small could in the wild only kill things like birds,
> rabbits, etc as opposed to cows or most deer.

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. [rawfeedng]8 week old underweight rescue pups
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:35 am ((PST))

i am fostering a litter of rescued pit bull puppies, 8 weeks old and VERY underweight. They were taken off their mom at 3 weeks because she was starving(they weren't feeding her) and they are all ribs and hip bones and about 3 lbs less than their sister whom i got at 3 weeks when they took the mom away(i fed her raw from that pt.).
what raw foods can i feed them to get them up to a safe weight? the two smallest i am really worried about. None can really handle bones, i think their teeth are underdeveloped too from being starved. I tried chunks of meat yesterday, with some success, still too much for those teeth i think. please help!!!
mallory

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Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: [rawfeedng]8 week old underweight rescue pups
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:50 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Mallory Kwiatkowski
<m_k_jesusfreak3@...> wrote:
>
> i am fostering a litter of rescued pit bull puppies, 8 weeks old and
VERY underweight.

Hi Mallory,
You can take a hammer/mallet and smash a chicken breast up to make it
easier for these poor little guys to chew. I would probably try a
little ground meat, too. HTH, KathyM

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Want to start RAW feeding with Papillonþ
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:35 am ((PST))

Hi Annie,

It looks like you didn't get any responses yet from other tiny dog
owners. First, you're going to be feeding around 1/4# per day,
depending on whether your dog is under or overweight, and if 8# is
her ideal adult weight. I have a 23# Boston but have been doing this
for about a year and reading all the posts here. You could start
with something like chicken wings or drumsticks, or a rib-in breast.
If you feed a boney item like a wing or drumstick, make the next meal
meaty. Those are too boney to feed all the time. Game hens would
also be good. Cut a whole rabbit (or have it cut) into quarters.
You can do a couple lamb riblets with some added boneless meat, or a
hunk of bone-in fish. If something is too big for one meal, just
feed the rest for the next meal. You can have goat or lamb or pork
or turkey cut into smaller parts and let her feed off that part for a
day or two or three or more. You can re-freeze things and thaw them
again later. You can chop up boneless meat if necessary, but even
feeding a hunk of boneless will give some dental hygiene and physical
workout for her.

Let us know what you try and how things are going, and if you have
any more questions.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "anniegness" <annieg91186@...>
wrote:
I just don't think I can give my little gal a huge chunk of meat
> and bone. What I was hoping for is any advice from people with
little
> dogs on what to feed.

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: Advice please-2 days on raw with variety of stools...
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:05 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Eddie Scholten <shirl-ed@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> We started our (8wks old today) GR pup on raw when we got him
> home 2 days ago.

> I wondered if the extra bone I've been giving (bony
> breast section) had helped to firm the stools we've seen, but
> the almost immediately following runny stools are a
> little confusing.

Stools don't have to be that messy. How many times a day are you
feeding him? I suggest 3 or 4 small meals a day at that age. I
also wouldn't feed any liver or any other organs for a month or so.
I can't picture in my mind the volume of food you are feeding but it
sounds like a lot for a little puppy that size.

Feed just the chicken meat and bones only in small amounts and I
think things will straighten out in a day or so. Keep feeding the
bonier parts and continue removing skin until his stools become more
firm.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: certain meats cause panting
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:05 am ((PST))

Hi Felicia,

I would suspect the added salt/solutions. I would try harder to get
unenhanced pork if you really want to feed it. There will be some
stores that will carry it or be able to order it. Tell them you have
food allergies or something if you want.

Another idea: is the pork really fatty compared to what else you feed?
If so, that could be making it harder to digest. Or, do you feed
bigger meals when you feed pork for some reason? Sometimes big meals
will do that.

Good luck,

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
>
> I was wondering if ceratin foods, such as pork would make a dog hot
and panting. My dogs have been raw fed for almost a year now. Every
time I feed a pork shoulder the dogs pant all night long.

Messages in this topic (7)
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6b. Re: certain meats cause panting
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:36 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...>
wrote:
>
> I feed a pork shoulder the dogs pant all night long.

> I have tried too buy pork without added salt or solutions.

Feed smaller meals when you feed pork. Sometimes you are feeding more
than it looks like. If there is a lot of fat around the outside, cut
it off. Don't worry about the enhancement, its not your problem.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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6c. Re: certain meats cause panting
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:56 am ((PST))

"carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
Don't worry about the enhancement, its not your problem.
*****
It's not your problem. It may be her problem. You have no way of
knowing whether it's her problem. The only way she can know if it is
her problem is to comparison feed.

Other than that, I agree: feed smaller meals, at least until the dog is
more accustomed to eating larger amounts. Not just with pork though,
with any meat that causes apparently inappropriate panting.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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7a. Re: Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:05 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
>
> Pat,
>
> why do you want chicken backs? whole chickens are cheap and easy
> to find and far more appropriate. and i might add, easily
> whacked into meal sized pieces.

I'm not Pat, but I buy chicken backs because they are about 1/4 the
price of whole chickens and they are already meal size. No whacking
necessary. I don't know that you can measure the aproriateness of
different parts of any animal. Feeding backs exclusively is not
appropriate but neither is feeding breasts exclusively. I prefer
buying my chickens in parts rather than whole because I don't want
to fool with the whacking.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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8a. Pork picnic
Posted by: "raffiangel2" snazgal@aol.com raffiangel2
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:11 am ((PST))

I was at the caribbean market yesterday in west palm beach...their
prices are just fabulous...there were lots of pork picnics which i've
fed to my 2 goldens over time..and I save the bones until I have 2 so
each can enjoy.
I saw a whole picnic cut up..bone and all....I didnt buy it because I
was fearful of the sharpness of the cut bone....was I overreacting or
should this not have been an issue?

Again..thanks to all of you who contribute your knowledge, experiences,
etc....You are a major reason for my Thankfulness....I feel so blessed
knowing what I do now, and that I'm doing the very best for my furries.
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you!!!!

PR in Delray Beach, Florida

Messages in this topic (3)
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8b. Re: Pork picnic
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:50 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "raffiangel2" <snazgal@...> wrote:
>
> I saw a whole picnic cut up..bone and all....I didnt buy it
> because I
> was fearful of the sharpness of the cut bone....was I
> overreacting or
> should this not have been an issue?

I'm not 100% sure I know what you are asking. Most Picnic roasts
are about 4 to 6 lbs. If that is what you are talking about, its
fine. Most of us feed that. If it's in smaller pieces like maybe
the size of a fist or smaller and each piece has bone in it, then I
would think twice about feeding that.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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8c. Re: Pork picnic
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:03 am ((PST))

"raffiangel2" <snazgal@...> wrote:
> I saw a whole picnic cut up..bone and all....I didnt buy it because I
> was fearful of the sharpness of the cut bone....was I overreacting or
> should this not have been an issue?
*****
IMO you did the right thing in not buying the cut up picnic. Since
your goldens do fine with the whole picnic (and congrats for figuring
that out!), there's little reason to feed them small hunks of anything,
much less small hunks of bone.

I can only imagine the wondrous meals the chopped pork will become, but
they'll be for human consumption, not dog.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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9a. Are deer bones OK?
Posted by: "sfed57" sfed57@yahoo.ca sfed57
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:11 am ((PST))

I have rcently recieved a large bag of deer parts from a friend. The
neck is in there which still has quite a bit of meat on it. He also
gave me the ribs with hardly no meat on them. I was wondering if these
bones are ok for the dogs to chew on, or if they are like beef bones
and will wreck their teeth. The neck is a bit of a meal but the ribs
would just be for something to chew on for entertainment. They love to
chew on deer antlers for fun as well. I have two Siberians, 47 and 30
lbs.

Happy thanksgiving from Canada to all the americans out there!
Thanks, Shawna

Messages in this topic (3)
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9b. Re: Are deer bones OK?
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:50 am ((PST))

Hi Shawna, I am pretty new to raw and brand new to this list, but my good friend and mentor says deer bones are really hard. I do feed ALOT of venison tho, this am I had a shoulder with a good bit of meat on it, I cut a good bit of the meat off and fed that, then offered the bone with the remaining cartiledge and meat after theyd eaten their meaty breakfast. Kids loved chomping on what they could tear off. I didnt leave it with them for long and once it was mostly cleaned of meat, etc I took it away.
My friend/mentor has Bouviers and Id figure if deer bones are too hard for them, theyd be too hard for your guys. I KNOW my little toy dogs cant handle actually chewing them!
just my 2 cents,
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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9c. Re: Are deer bones OK?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:10 am ((PST))

"sfed57" <sfed57@...> wrote:
>
> I have rcently recieved a large bag of deer parts from a friend. The
> neck is in there which still has quite a bit of meat on it. He also
> gave me the ribs with hardly no meat on them. I was wondering if
these
> bones are ok for the dogs to chew on, or if they are like beef bones
> and will wreck their teeth. The neck is a bit of a meal but the ribs
> would just be for something to chew on for entertainment.
*****
I doubt barenaked deer ribs are anywhere as damaging as beef bones but
I'm not keen on doling out bare bones, period. However, if your dogs
process bony eatfests without digestive discomfort, then feed away.

Deer necks on the other hand are IMO delightful, delovely, delicious.
My retrievers (60-85lb) often eat them completely; if not, certainly
they clean off the meat and eat a goodly portion of the bone.
Chris O

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10a. Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
Posted by: "mrbob02140" bob_roth@comcast.net mrbob02140
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:27 am ((PST))

Come on people... we are 10,000 strong! If this group is not one of
the "Best of Yahoo" I'll eat my hat! Chris, Bill and all the other
regulars that do SO much to support us all deserve the recongition! Not
to mention promoting the diet we have all learned is so much better for
our beloved pets. If we don't do something to stop the multi-billion
dollar pet foot industry from brainwashing pet owners into thinking
Dogs are omnivores, who will?

Bob

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
Posted by: "Anntiga@aol.com" Anntiga@aol.com anntiga
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:37 am ((PST))

I already voted for this group! It is by far the best!

My first PWD lived another six years because of the wonderful help, support,
and advice from the this great list.

Ann Gaskell
Norman (raw fed PWD since 12 weeks old, now 23 months old)
Angel Scamp (epileptic PWD who NEVER had another Gran Mal seizure after his
first raw meal at age seven years)
San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

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11a. What next?
Posted by: "swayzepetsitting" skittles888@aol.com swayzepetsitting
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:27 am ((PST))

Happy Thanksgiving! My border collie has been on raw for a week and 2
days now. She is currently eating bone in, skin on chicken breasts
and backs. I feed her with my 3 cats 3X a day.

She is doing extremely well so far. She chews up the bones, no
problem. Her stools have been great the whole time. Nothing runny,
and her feces turn white within a day or two (from the bone, I
assume). Plus, she truly enjoys meal time now. :)

I am not sure what to add next. I really want to have her on 2
feedings a day, but I don't want the increased food per meal to make
her sick. How long should I wait before I condense the meals? As far
as the actual meals, I was thinking of keeping one meal either breast
or back and then the other could be 1/2 of a chicken quarter (I'm
pretty sure that's about 1/2 a lb and she needs almost a lb a day to
get down to her ideal weight). Does this sound alright? If the
chicken quarters work out, what should I do after that?

Thanks everyone!

Swayze and Bean Dip, Sniff, McGuirk, and Finnigan

Messages in this topic (6)
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11b. Re: What next?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:50 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "swayzepetsitting"
<skittles888@...> wrote:
>
> I am not sure what to add next. I really want to have her on 2
> feedings a day, but I don't want the increased food per meal
> to make
> her sick. How long should I wait before I condense the meals?

It depends on how old she is. If she is an adult, you should be
able to go to 2 meals a day now. Otherwise it depends on her age.

> If the
> chicken quarters work out, what should I do after that?

It's not critical but I suggest turkey next and a week or so later
at a pork roast cut to appropriate size. It sounds like everything
is going great right now.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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12a. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
Posted by: "Affordable Health Insurance" insuranceplan@sbcglobal.net affordablehealthinsurance69
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:38 am ((PST))

I actually find tripe at Polish Supermarkets all the time

marblekallie <marble@pipeline.com> wrote: Hi:

You won't find green tripe at a butcher's or a supermarket -- ever.
It is not for human consumption. http://www.hare-today.com/,

Prey4Pets, http://www.aplaceforpaws.com are among some who sell it for
pets. On the West Coast there is http://www.greentripe.com/

Philippa Jordan
New York City

> Where do you Oregon folks get yours?

Compare rates and even apply www.cheaphealthinsuranceplans.com

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13a. Bad Breath
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:05 am ((PST))

Hello All
My 8 mo old puppy has been on raw for almost 4 months now. He had
developed bad breath over the past month or so. It's not as horrible as
my other dog used to have when he was older, but it still kindda
unpleasant. I know that one of the advantages of feeding raw is that
dogs don't develop bad breath especially at such a young age. I do give
him bones and meat, organs, fish. He crunches the bones so he is using
his teeth. I did check in his mouth for anything weird, nothing all
looks good.
So what should I do? When I got him, he was fed kibble and didn't have
bad breath. Maybe it's just what dogs are supposed to smell like? I
also noticed very very tiny yellow deposits on his big theeth (canines,
right?).
Any advise will be appreciated.

Vickie

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