[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12295

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Intro- new member
From: celiageorge77
1b. Intro- new member
From: celiageorge77
1c. Re: Intro- new member
From: Sandee Lee
1d. Re: Intro- new member
From: Tracy P-C

2a. Re: salmon
From: Caren OConnor

3a. Excessive panting
From: sltahoek9s
3b. Re: Excessive panting
From: temy1102

4a. Re: Raw and Eclampsia
From: Tracey Gale

5a. Trichinosis
From: Jolene Nelson
5b. Re: Trichinosis
From: Erika
5c. Re: Trichinosis
From: Sandee Lee
5d. Re: Trichinosis
From: Casey Post
5e. Re: Trichinosis
From: Jolene Nelson
5f. Re: Trichinosis
From: carnesbill

6a. Re: Oregon sources for raw food.
From: Tracy P-C

7a. Re: Bad meat??
From: trayc2244
7b. Re: Bad meat??
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski
7c. Re: Bad meat??
From: carnesbill
7d. Re: Bad meat??
From: trayc2244

8a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Probiotic
From: carnesbill

9a. Re: kind of off topic
From: carnesbill
9b. Re: kind of off topic
From: temy1102
9c. Re: kind of off topic
From: costrowski75

10a. Re: How to tell if it is any good?
From: carnesbill

11a. Re: Chew treats?
From: temy1102

Messages
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1a. Intro- new member
Posted by: "celiageorge77" celiageorge77@yahoo.com celiageorge77
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:07 pm ((PST))

Hello All,
I am new to the group. I have been feeding my wheaten terrier puppy a raw diet since I got
him (the breeder also fed raw before I got him). His health is superb. Lots of energy, very
pleasant, friendly disposition. Between meals, Seamus loves to chew on nylabones and frozen
carrots. I am curious to get your thoughts on helping with bad breath. By no means do I
expect to have a dog with wonderful breath. Seamus's is particularly bad, especially right
after he's woken from a nap. I suppose I would equate it to people morning breath! ;) In any
case, any suggestions are appreciated. I look forward to learning more about the benefits of
feeding raw and plan to dive into the archives to read up.
Thanks,
Celia and Seamus

Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Intro- new member
Posted by: "celiageorge77" celiageorge77@yahoo.com celiageorge77
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:07 pm ((PST))

Hello All,
I am new to the group. I have been feeding my wheaten terrier puppy a raw diet since I got
him (the breeder also fed raw before I got him). His health is superb. Lots of energy, very
pleasant, friendly disposition. Between meals, Seamus loves to chew on nylabones and frozen
carrots. I am curious to get your thoughts on helping with bad breath. By no means do I
expect to have a dog with wonderful breath. Seamus's is particularly bad, especially right
after he's woken from a nap. I suppose I would equate it to people morning breath! ;) In any
case, any suggestions are appreciated. I look forward to learning more about the benefits of
feeding raw and plan to dive into the archives to read up.
Thanks,
Celia and Seamus

Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: Intro- new member
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:52 pm ((PST))

What exactly are you feeding, Celia?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "celiageorge77" <celiageorge77@yahoo.com>

I am new to the group. I have been feeding my wheaten terrier puppy a raw
diet since I got
him (the breeder also fed raw before I got him). His health is superb. Lots
of energy, very
pleasant, friendly disposition. Between meals, Seamus loves to chew on
nylabones and frozen
carrots. I am curious to get your thoughts on helping with bad breath.

Messages in this topic (4)
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1d. Re: Intro- new member
Posted by: "Tracy P-C" tpreston721@yahoo.com tpreston721
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:56 pm ((PST))

What are you feeding him? How old is he??? Could this be bad breath from losing teeth??? I know my dogs got real stinky breath when they lost their teeth - I fed turkey legs, frozen carrots, apples slices and watermelon to my dogs when they were teething - Hope this helps
Tracy & girls

celiageorge77 <celiageorge77@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello All,
I am new to the group. I have been feeding my wheaten terrier puppy a raw diet since I got
him (the breeder also fed raw before I got him). His health is superb. Lots of energy, very
pleasant, friendly disposition. Between meals, Seamus loves to chew on nylabones and frozen
carrots. I am curious to get your thoughts on helping with bad breath. By no means do I
expect to have a dog with wonderful breath. Seamus's is particularly bad, especially right
after he's woken from a nap. I suppose I would equate it to people morning breath! ;) In any
case, any suggestions are appreciated. I look forward to learning more about the benefits of
feeding raw and plan to dive into the archives to read up.
Thanks,
Celia and Seamus

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Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: salmon
Posted by: "Caren OConnor" cavkist@yahoo.com cavkist
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:07 pm ((PST))

Sandy -
My Cavaliers love salmon when they get it which isn't all THAT often because it's rather expensive for me. I try to feed fish each Friday, though, remembering that my dogs are Catholic even though it's not Lent:)
Happy feeding and don't worry one bit about salmon, unless you're worrying about the cost:)
Caren O'Connor
Nansemond Cavaliers

beaulah_2001us <beaulah_2001us@yahoo.com> wrote:
I thought salmon could kill dogs if they fed on it. If so I assume
there is something I dont know about feeding salmon to dogs. Can
someone please enlighten me?
Sandy

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Messages in this topic (13)
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3a. Excessive panting
Posted by: "sltahoek9s" crazy4k9@aol.com sltahoek9s
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:47 pm ((PST))

My two dogs have only been on raw for 2 weeks now. This all started because I took my
13 month old english lab to visit her breeder and questioned why she seemed so small.
Compared to her siblings, sire and dam she is much more petite in overall size. I raised
her from 8 weeks on Timberwolf Organics dry and kept her at a healthy lean weight. From
about 6 months on she was only eating about 2 cups a day. Well her siblings were all fed
6 cups of Iams a day. So her breeder told me she wasn't undersized but malnurished. He
said she didn't have enough excess weight to convince her body it could keep growing
more, but he assured me that it was reversible. So I decided to give his idea a shot, but
since I was going to be feeding her more I decided to take the plunge and go raw so at
least she would be eating an excess of healthy food. The visit was a month ago and she
has gained nearly 10 lbs. She isn't fat (like her breeders dogs...whoever decided show line
labs should be HEAVY to show well i'll never understand) but she isn't lean anymore. I'm
feeding her chicken right now. She usually has a half a chicken a day. That's about 4-5 %
ideal weight. I figure she should be between 50-55 lbs.

Since the weight gain, she seems to pant a lot more. Before raw, my 4 year old GSD was
always my temperature gauge. Now the lab pants a lot, especially when in the car or at
night when in her dog bed. Panting used to mean upset stomach to me so I would take
her out frequently in the middle of the night and all she would do is pee. After she pees
she often comes back in and continues panting. No panting if she lays down outside
though. Any thoughts? Does she have a fever or something? It hasn't been every night,
but does happen frequently. When staying with my sister, I opened the window and she
stopped panting when the room cooled a little more.

The other big issue is her excessive urination. She wasn't having any house training issues
since a puppy until I switched her. Now she has to pee all the time. She doesn't always
sleep through the night anymore. On 4 different occasions she's peed before I could get
her out the back door. Is there something I should change in her diet? Could she have a
bladder infection? I really don't want to take her to the vet for this cause I already know
my vet is anti-raw.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

-Tammy C.-

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Excessive panting
Posted by: "temy1102" ahn.tammy@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:58 pm ((PST))

How old is your lab now? Her panting could be a symptom of an issue
that is not related to her diet - if you're very concerned, you could
take her to the vet and not mention her diet at all and see what they
have to say. If she's not fully mature yet, well young dogs can go
through phases and that might account for her nightly accidents.

-Tammy & Grover

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Raw and Eclampsia
Posted by: "Tracey Gale" whirlwind32980@yahoo.com whirlwind32980
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:47 pm ((PST))

Hiya my bitch went off her whole bones when her pups were bout a week or so old. I then used chicken carcasses (most of the meat removed) and ground them up into a boney mince, she then wolfed it down. i also used to give her goats milk mixed with two or three egg yolks, with some safflower oil, warming it slightly. I still give her this milk mix when we are at dog shows, just gives them a nutritious, rich in energy drink. It will also help to increase her lactation so that hopefully she will have plenty of milk for pups. My bitch had 9 pups, with no extra help. Hope that helps. Tracey
ps it can be very difficult to tell how many pups exactly are on a ultrasound, due to the way they all sit sometimes etc

----- Original Message ----
From: Renate <renate.tideswell@gmail.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 5:44:03 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Raw and Eclampsia

Bella who was having a very picky time during her pregnancy is continuing
that way. She eats lots of kidney and heart, a bit of liver and teeny tiny
amounts of chicken or pork (if at all possible, she won't). Anyway, she has
4 puppies, all growing great,and now 9 days old, but last night I had to
make an emergency run to the vet because Bella developed eclampsia. She was
treated and is fine for now, and I have a syringe of calcium to administer
if needed. The vet is pushing to put her onto canned food - she gobbled a
heap last night and now won't go near it (she developed a nasty case of
diarrhea) and refuses the kibble she used to eat. Also, she has lost a
bunch of hair on the flank - I gently picked out a bunch of matts and there
is no hair left.. The vet also wants me to hand-feed the puppies with milk
replacer.

I really need help now deciding what to do. I know there is a calcium
problem, but is this picky diet doing to make it worse? Do I let her
continue to be so picky over food (she is eating virtually no bone) although
she is willing to eat canned tuna and canned salmon so there is a bit of
fish bone. I can't wait her out without harming her health. I've been
feeding her 3 times a day, should I increase the frequency? Do I really
have to remove the pups? They are definitely not keen on milk replacer.
And frankly I'm not too keen on listening to Bella screech outside the
dining room door for hours on end. I've gotten to the point that I feel
like I can't trust anything the vet tells me. (she did an ultra sound on
Bella and told me there were 2 babies, possibly a third, but there were
actually 5 - one very tiny died a day after birth).

Thank you for any advice

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

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Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Trichinosis
Posted by: "Jolene Nelson" imperial_bloodlines@yahoo.com imperial_bloodlines
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:05 pm ((PST))

It looks like we've got an *almost* confirmed case of Trichinosis here in Grand Cayman. The only thing the dog ingested which could have carried it would have been some US imported pig ears.

I posted on this dog a few months ago when symptoms started and to date all tests have come back unremarkable.

Now she's passed which appears to be a Trichinosis worm and eggs.

Three weeks ago she developed paralysis and irregular heartbeat. She could not eliminate on her own and is only now able to sit up sometimes without assistance.

IF this is Trichinosis I can't begin to think what this means for those of us feeding raw. All the meat is frozen for import so I guess that actually doesn't kill it!

Any help appreciated we're very much at a loss right now.

Thanks,

Jolene

Jolene Nelson
I'm a proud Raw Bully owner!
Imperial Bulldoggs

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Jolene Nelson
I'm a proud Raw Bully owner!
Imperial Bulldoggs

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Messages in this topic (6)
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5b. Re: Trichinosis
Posted by: "Erika" Erika@redangelbordeaux.com redangelbordeaux
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:31 pm ((PST))

Holley C**p! Please someone give input on this! I thought all US pig meat purchased that was intended for human consumption was tested for the Trich? Any input is appreciated.

Thanks

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Messages in this topic (6)
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5c. Re: Trichinosis
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:30 pm ((PST))

While this dog's illness is really sad, there is no need to panic. At this
point there are no facts....we don't know if the dog has trich or where it
came from if she does.

Look at the statistics.....Trich has not been an issue in the US for many
years. In 2000, the prevalence of trich in US commercial pork was 0.007%.

Focus on the 10,000 members of this list, most feeding raw, most feeding
pork with no issues at all.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Erika" <Erika@redangelbordeaux.com>

> Holley C**p! Please someone give input on this! I thought all US pig meat
purchased that was intended for human consumption was tested for the Trich?
Any input is appreciated.

Messages in this topic (6)
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5d. Re: Trichinosis
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:41 pm ((PST))

> Look at the statistics.....Trich has not been an issue in the US for many
> years. In 2000, the prevalence of trich in US commercial pork was 0.007%.

My first thought was that if they were smoked pig ears, they wouldn't have
been frozen and possibly (probably?) not smoked to human standards...

But the Cayman Islands have rats and rats are a known carrier of
trichinosis, so I'm not so sure that US pork is the only possible suspect,
here. If the dog ate a rat...

Casey

Messages in this topic (6)
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5e. Re: Trichinosis
Posted by: "Jolene Nelson" imperial_bloodlines@yahoo.com imperial_bloodlines
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:58 pm ((PST))

The pig ears were raw, not smoked and very very frozen.

The dog lives inside and didn't come into contact with any rat much less eat one. Her first instance of any issue was in August and it has only gotten worse since then.

Every other test has come back negative. We are still waiting to find somewhere that will test for Trich. As for now every lab/University we have contacted said they do not have the facilities to test for it.

And Sandy, I appreciate you saying not to panic and I wasn't trying to say that panic was warranted. However, saying "let's focus on the other people who feed raw without any issue" seems to invalidate the fact that this IS a very real problem if only for this one little dog in the Cayman Islands. Is the fact that this is only affecting one dog not enough?

I would appreciate if anyone has any suggestions as to an alternative which may mimic the symptoms that we may not have tested for already? I'm not too eager to jump on the bandwagon that this is Trichinosis as it means bad things for my dogs but if that's what it is then....

Thanks,

Jo

Casey Post <mikken@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> Look at the statistics.....Trich has not been an issue in the US for many
> years. In 2000, the prevalence of trich in US commercial pork was 0.007%.

My first thought was that if they were smoked pig ears, they wouldn't have
been frozen and possibly (probably?) not smoked to human standards...

But the Cayman Islands have rats and rats are a known carrier of
trichinosis, so I'm not so sure that US pork is the only possible suspect,
here. If the dog ate a rat...

Casey

Jolene Nelson
I'm a proud Raw Bully owner!
Imperial Bulldoggs

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Messages in this topic (6)
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5f. Re: Trichinosis
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:57 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Jolene Nelson
<imperial_bloodlines@...> wrote:
>
>
> It looks like we've got an *almost* confirmed case of
> Trichinosis here in Grand Cayman.

I don't think you are even close to confirming a case of Trich. You
have a dog that is sick. You have eliminated some possiblities and
for now you are calling it thrich for no other reason than you don't
know what else to call it. That is far far from proving anything.

> The only thing the dog ingested which could have carried it
> would have been some US imported pig ears.

I promise you that your dog did NOT catch trich from eating a pig
ear from the US.

> I posted on this dog a few months ago when symptoms started and
> to date all tests have come back unremarkable.

As will this one. What will you call it next?

> Three weeks ago she developed paralysis and irregular
> heartbeat. She could not eliminate on her own and is only now
> able to sit up sometimes without assistance.

I'm sorry your dog is sick. Hopefully you will soon find out what
it is.

> IF this is Trichinosis I can't begin to think what this means
> for those of us feeding raw. All the meat is frozen for import
> so I guess that actually doesn't kill it!

Don't get all excited because that is not the problem with your
dog. If it happens to be, he didn't get it from the pig ear.

> Any help appreciated we're very much at a loss right now.

I'm sure its got to be rough to have a dog that is sick that long,
particularly since you don't know what's wrong with it. Good luck
and keep us posted.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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6a. Re: Oregon sources for raw food.
Posted by: "Tracy P-C" tpreston721@yahoo.com tpreston721
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:31 pm ((PST))

Leanne
You can have him go the the store and buy a few un-enhanced chickens, cut them up into quarters (freeze if space is an issue) - Then he can feed them as he normally would - There are a few "natural" stores in the Portland area if you are really wanting to feed packaged - I would look up BRAVO, Columbia River, Darwins, Nature's Variety on the web and they should be able to give locations where they are sold -

Good Luck
Tracy & girls

Leanne <l_parker@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Anybody in the Portland Oregon area who can help me source some raw
food? I live out East but my husband and our raw-fed Greyhound are
staying with family in BEAVERTON for 10 days at Xmas time. Can anyone
point me in the direction of any suppliers where we can get a small 10
day supply? Raw chicken bones (rib cages) would be great, or
prepackaged, meat/ veg combo would be easiest to store etc.

Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks,
Leanne

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Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: Bad meat??
Posted by: "trayc2244" BreeZ119@catt.com trayc2244
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:56 pm ((PST))

Well the deal is that I had some deer meat that was frozen, but the
freezer malfunctioned and some of the meat defrosted just a little not
all the way through, but it has a bad smell now. Would it be okay to
still feed that to the dog??

Tracy

Messages in this topic (8)
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7b. Re: Bad meat??
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:58 pm ((PST))

this summer, my parents brought me a deer leg, with some other stuff, and never told me. It had been frozen for like 2 years, so it was a rock. Well, i didn't know it was there, and we left to go on vacation. 2 days later, my mom asked about it, and i frantically called my pet sitter, and she was like, i wondered what smelled!
It was only a little dethawed, and the cats had already started eating it, so she put it in my freezer, and i fed it to my dogs when i got home. They were fine, not even any loose poop. So, i guess, it depends on your comfort level. Dogs will bury their meat and come back to it, so i think they will be ok. It's more a matter of will you be ok.
mallory


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7c. Re: Bad meat??
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:58 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "trayc2244" <BreeZ119@...> wrote:

> Would it be okay to still feed that to the dog??

I would feed it. I have fed my dogs rotten meat several times. All
of it from ziplocks. A couple of months ago I got some meat from
freecycyle. The man that gave it to me told me his freezer
intermittantly going off and he didn't know if the meat was good or
bad. Well when I thawed it out it smelled terribly rotten. I fed it
anyway for 3 seperate meals. There was no problem with either of the
dogs. They were all sealed up real good. Dogs have tough digestive
systems. They ate it like it was fresh meat.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (8)
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7d. Re: Bad meat??
Posted by: "trayc2244" BreeZ119@catt.com trayc2244
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:56 pm ((PST))

Thanks so much everyone. It is a lot of meat and I didn't want it to
be wasted. I wasn't at all comfortable feeding him rotten meat, but I
figured dogs do it all the time, so it shouldn't be a big deal.

Thanks agian. You guys were a big help.

Tracy

Messages in this topic (8)
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8a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Probiotic
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:58 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...>
wrote:
>
> when giving antibodics you are killing their
> good bacteria and
> have to give them their good bugs back - do you have to do this
> with dogs as well?

No, they will grow back.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: kind of off topic
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:58 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "beaulah_2001us"
<beaulah_2001us@...> wrote:
>
> How long can I leave raw food out of fridge for her? 1 hour
> or a little longer?

You can leave it out a lot longer than an hour but for your purposes
of teaching her to eat in her crate, I wouldn't give her any longer
than about 15 or 20 minutes then take the food up until next meal. No
between meal snacks or treats.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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9b. Re: kind of off topic
Posted by: "temy1102" ahn.tammy@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:58 pm ((PST))

All my dogs, including fosters who are now gone, have been trained to
eat in their crates. I say, "Go home," and toss their food into the
crates and they follow it. I leave them there for about 15-20
minutes, and if they've stopped eating, I let them out, put the food
in the fridge, and do it all over again next mealtime. Eventually,
I'll start saying "go home" before I put the food in their crates, and
wait until they go in by themselves and then reward them with the
food. Some of my dogs will whine to let me know they're finished (or
that they don't like today's menu...) and some of them will just snooze.

When I had a pair of 3 month olds, I fed them 3 times a day with the
same method. After a couple of days, those little guys had the
routine down pat. EVERY time I said "go home," they'd get either a
meal or a treat. The boy pup would even try to squeeze into the
smaller crates for the little dogs after he finished dinner to see if
I'd reward him.

If any of them has trouble focusing on the food in the beginning, I'll
open the door and hand-feed them to encourage them until they feel
comfortable enough to eat in there.

-Tammy

Messages in this topic (5)
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9c. Re: kind of off topic
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:09 pm ((PST))

"beaulah_2001us" <beaulah_2001us@...> wrote:>
>
> This is a little off topic. I was wondering if anyone has crate
trianed
> their dogs to eat in the crate? If so how did you achieve this?
*****
Crate training is a topic best posted to RawChat. It's not about raw
feeding, it's simply about teaching a dog to go to an established
place. Please take all further create training discussion to RawChat.

> How long can I leave raw food out of fridge for her? 1 hour or a
little
> longer?
*****
Oh heavens. All day for sure. Overnight, no problem.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (5)
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10a. Re: How to tell if it is any good?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:58 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Maria" <plava_93@...> wrote:
>
> How do
> I know if it is any good? I don't want to make the dogs sick.

Feed it. "Good" is only meant for us sissy humans. Dogs can handle
it fine.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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11a. Re: Chew treats?
Posted by: "temy1102" ahn.tammy@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:59 pm ((PST))

My outdoor chew treats are chicken and pig feet. Indoors, I give
bully sticks and moo tubes (cow tracheas). There's really nothing
gross about bully sticks, they just look and feel like rawhide. And
this is the "whole prey" diet..... haha. I'd much rather have a dog
eating a bully stick on the sofa then a juicy pig foot.

-Tammy

Messages in this topic (4)
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