[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12292

There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: excessive shedding
From: costrowski75

2a. throwing out
From: doreenchui
2b. Re: throwing out
From: Giselle

3. How to tell if it is any good?
From: Maria

4.1. Re: newfy puppy and calcium and meat/bone ratio of neckbones
From: Candee Brey

5a. Re: Alabama Rot...
From: costrowski75

6.1. Re: Question
From: costrowski75
6.2. Feeding liver
From: Caren OConnor

7a. Re: Tips on finicky eater?
From: carnesbill
7b. Re: Tips on finicky eater?
From: jenna
7c. Re: Tips on finicky eater?
From: Sandee Lee

8a. Re: my dog lost her front teeth
From: cactususan
8b. Re: my dog lost her front teeth
From: meralynn58

9. Feeding Salmon?
From: redangelbordeaux

10a. Want to start RAW feeding with Papillon
From: Maureen Doohan

11. deer head
From: Diane

Messages
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1a. Re: excessive shedding
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:43 pm ((PST))

shefy gupta <shefy7@...> wrote:
>
> do the dogs eat the fish bones?
*****Yes.

aren't they too small/hard/pointy to feed?
*****
No.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (13)
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2a. throwing out
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:26 pm ((PST))

I remember that there were some messages about dogs vomittng out small
pcs of bones. Any anyone remember where I can find it? I went thru
quite a fair bit and I am not able to locate it.
Thanks.
Doreen

Messages in this topic (2)
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2b. Re: throwing out
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:15 am ((PST))

Here's a few;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?query=BBV&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8

You can search for key words such as BBV, bone bits, bone bits vomit,
etc.......

TC
Giselle

On Nov 18, 2007 9:04 PM, doreenchui <doreenchui@yeos.com> wrote:

> I remember that there were some messages about dogs vomiting out small
> pcs of bones. Any anyone remember where I can find it? I went thru
> quite a fair bit and I am not able to locate it.
> Thanks.
> Doreen
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (2)
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3. How to tell if it is any good?
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:26 pm ((PST))

I live in a big city but due to the human encroachment the deer live
here and they are all over the place. I saw a small deer laying beside
the road, it was a young buck with nubs as antlers. He didn't look
bloated so I got him in my fathers van and took him home, on the way
the van started to smell a little bit. I put him on a tarp on the back
patio (this was my first time butchering something this big at home,
the goats were done on a farm). I put a slit in his belly and it
hissed, it stunk like rotten eggs. The goats just smelt like tripe but
they were cut just minutes after being shot. I went ahead and butchered
him, the only organs I saved were the testicals, penis, heart and
lungs. The carcass still smelt but I went ahead and cut him into thirds
and put him in the freezer. My father seems to think that if the dogs
will eat it then it isn't bad. I haven't fed them any because I
personally want to freeze it for 2 Weeks to kill any parasites. How do
I know if it is any good? I don't want to make the dogs sick. Since it
was in the middle of the city I doubt it was there any longer than 24
hours and the temperature didn't get over 50 within that time.

Thank you!
Maria

Messages in this topic (1)
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4.1. Re: newfy puppy and calcium and meat/bone ratio of neckbones
Posted by: "Candee Brey" candee@netnet.net candeeloubrey
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:26 pm ((PST))

newfy puppy and calcium and meat/bone ratio of neckbones

Excellent post! Please trim the original stuff below your sig line
and resubmit. Thanks.
Chris O
Moderation Team

I would be more concerned with the health checks that the breeder
did. I wouldn't be concerned with the calcium levels from the
diet. If there were problems with the parents with knees, elbows and
hearts that is where the skeletal abnormalities are going to come from.
You should be looking for information from non kibble feeding Newf
owners for accurate information to set your mind at ease.

Candee
Mandee
Lexx

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (45)
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5a. Re: Alabama Rot...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:41 pm ((PST))

Anntiga@... wrote:
>
> I just had to look this up. What I could find is that it had to do
with
> Greyhounds.
*****
It's also been discussed at least once on this list. I think a browse
of the rawfeeding archives might also produce some results.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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6.1. Re: Question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:14 pm ((PST))

"jetblst2002" <bosboy101@...> wrote:
> I use to do a raw diet way back in 2000, during my time doing it I
> learner that you should to add some veggies to what ever you were
> doing.
*****
That's when I started but fortunately I was able to shrug off the
veggie nonsense. Oh, and all those supplements? They're gone too.

I'm again thinking of doing a raw diet again with a Border
> Collie puppy that I'm getting.
*****
Yes! Most definitely. I have a 13 month old BC that's been eating
raw since week eight and she is a thing of beauty and a joy forever.
She has only rarely been finicky and almost never has had
inappropriate stools. I can't think of a better way to feed a border
collie.

The one thing they
> all talk about is the ratio that you use, none of them talk about
what
> to really feed a puppy.
*****
There are two widely promoted ways--10% of current puppy body weight
from eight weeks to about 16 weeks, after which you switch to the
adult weight version; and 2%-3% (and often higher) of anticipated
adult weight. In either case, the pup's appearance and health are
your final guidelines.

I fed about 3% expected adult weight (based on her parents) and only
dropped to 2% a couple of months ago. Even now though I find she
does better on an amount closer to 3% than 2%. And no, I don't make
a big deal of weighing her food--I've just gotten accustomed to what
X% looks like.

> So I guess my question is what would you feed a 8 week old border
and
> how do you know when to start lowering the amount of food intake.
*****
I fed my pup four meals a day for a few weeks, then three squares
until she was six months old, then dropped her from two to one meal
before she was a year old. I didn't change the amount of food
offered (except as noted above), just how much food was in each
meal.

I started with quail halves or chicken backs or rib-in breasts, or
pork meat or venison or chicken or turkey meat or beef or lamb or
salmon, with heart and teensy bits of liver stuck in. Nothing fazed
her and her digestive system was never challenged, at least not
beyond what I felt was reasonable and proper.

When you're feeding four meals a day, you have ample opportunity to
feed small amounts of most everything.

> Is it also fine to just feed meat, bone and organs or do I need to
add
> something to the mix?
*****
Same diet as the big dogs get, generally same amounts just divvied up
over more meals. Meat, edible bone, organs--that's the ticket. No
supplements until/unless health issues warrant; no veggies, no fruit,
no kelp or alfalfa, none of that stuff.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (174)
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6.2. Feeding liver
Posted by: "Caren OConnor" cavkist@yahoo.com cavkist
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:41 am ((PST))

Listmembers-
Just a thanks to whomever wrote to suggest freezing liver first then feeding it. I know it'd probably been said before, but "out of sight, out of mind."
I froze pieces of liver individually then fed them on my liver day - Sunday - and everyone gobbled them up with no hesitation:)
This list makes rawfeeding SO easy and approachable!
Caren

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (174)
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7a. Re: Tips on finicky eater?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:29 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jenna" <jennawing@...> wrote:
>
> Sirius is loving it, but his teeth are not the best (product of a
> prolonged skin allergy and chewing). His gums are taking a beating
> on this. Will this get better? Doesn't seem to deter him any,
> but I can imagine the vet is going to crawl me on it if it
> doesn't get better before his next visit.

There are many toothless dogs that eat raw. Stick to softer bones
such as chicken. I wouldn't care what the vet said. Sirius is your
dog and its your responsibility to see that he is feed the best diet
possible and you have just found it. :)

> Biggest problem, though, is Natalie will not eat. She has always
> been a binge and fast eater- is that the correct term?

I think the term used here if gorge/fast. It's not a bad wat to
feed. If that is what suits her, feed her that way but I wouldn't
put up with her foolishnes. Here is what I would do if she were my
dog. I would put her food down and as soon as it's obvious she
isn't going to eat it, take it up and put it back in the fridge.
Next meal, take out the exact same food and offer it again. Repeat
the same process until she eats it. Don't worry if its several days
between meals, don't make a big deal out of it. Don't get upset if
she doesn't eat. Just pick up the food and put it back in the
fridge. Don't cajole, no between meal snacks, no treats between
meals.

She may be acting this way because of the attention she gets for not
eating. Until she gets real hungry the attention is more important
than the food. As long as she gets this attention, the behavior
will continue.

If you rather feed her every couple of days, thats ok too. Several
people on this list feed that way. If it were me, I think I'd get
her eating normally before I graduated to gorge/fast.

> You leave the food
> and try to act like it's no big deal, she lays down and sighs like
> we are all stupid and she still won't go near it.

Because you are not playing her little game. Pick the food up and
put it away until next mealtime. She is training you (has trained
you) very well. :) :) :)

> We thought feeding the girls together would encourage
> Natalie to be more interested. She isn't.

No, she wants to play the game, not eat.

> More flopping over, more sighs, more dancing eyebrows of
> hate and disgust. We suck. She wants a new family. You get
> the idea.

Yeah, it's called dog training the human. And it's working!

> Her energy level drops when she doesn't eat,
> though, and I worry that she will be a lot more stubborn than me.

More dog training the human. She is GOOD!!! Also, YOU ARE EASY!!!
A dog good at training humans with an easy human equals a dog that
runs the show.

> I
> keep telling myself she is a dog and not to feel bad that she
> is so
> put out by this and she will give in eventually, but after several
> days of nothing more than tidbits we cajoled her into, I
> know there
> must be something to make her act normal. Please say there is.

There is. Stop playing her game. Stand up and take charge of this
dog. She is playing you like a piano and you are rolling over and
letting her.

> And while I am writing, any tips on feeding raw to cats- sites you
> trust, etc. ? Changing everyone over at once was too big a
> bite for
> us (pardon the pun) but the cats are next. I am still reading, but
> there is so much conflicting information I am feeling overwhelmed.

Don't get overwhelmed. Feeding cats is exactly the same as feeding
dogs. I feed my 2 cats exactly the same meals I feed my Great Danes
only smaller. Cats are a little more difficult to switch. I
started by putting a chicken leg in the cats bowl with their regular
kibble. I didn't free feed my cats. They had a meal time. Each
day I would put less and less kibble in the bowl. It didn't take
long for them to start nibbling on the chicken leg. Within a week
or so I stopped the kibble altogether. They don't eat every meal.
If they don't eat a meal, no big deal. They get the same thing next
time. My cats have access to outdoors and often catch food outside
so I dont' worry if they don't eat for a week but you can't normally
let a cat go that long.

> I am feeling out places to get whole fish.

I feed fish once a week. Other cat meals would be chicken, turkey,
pork, beef hearts, venison and leftovers from our meals.

> If this works as well as it is supposed to, do you think the vet
> will miss us? :P I think he should buy me a bigger freezer.

I have 2 freezers and they are both full right now. I just scored
about 50lbs of venison this week. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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7b. Re: Tips on finicky eater?
Posted by: "jenna" jennawing@charter.net jennawing
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:26 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jenna,
>
> What exactly are you feeding that is causing gum damage?
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "jenna" <jennawing@...>

They are starting out on turkey necks. He has no problem eating it, I
have just noticed some cutting to his gums. He does the same thing
sometimes when he chews on a stick.

Messages in this topic (6)
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7c. Re: Tips on finicky eater?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:24 am ((PST))

Oh, OK...those are pretty bony. You might want to switch to a meatier
portion of turkey or chicken.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "jenna" <jennawing@charter.net>

They are starting out on turkey necks. He has no problem eating it, I
have just noticed some cutting to his gums. He does the same thing
sometimes when he chews on a stick.

Messages in this topic (6)
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8a. Re: my dog lost her front teeth
Posted by: "cactususan" desperatelyseekingsusan@cox.net cactususan
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:27 pm ((PST))

I have a 13 year-old, 9# Min Pin whose 8 front teeth (4 top, 4 bottom)
were surgically extracted about 4 years ago due to excess tartar build-
up & resultant gum infection from kibble.

His remaining teeth require regular scaling (by me--the vet wants
$400.), and it's a huge struggle.

I committed to raw 3 weeks ago. He devoured half of a turkey neck &
then rounded up bones from the other three BIG dogs(30-90#).

The tartar is already retreating, and you wouldn't know from the
crunching that any teeth are missing...I think those tiny front teeth
are for grooming.

Susan

Messages in this topic (4)
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8b. Re: my dog lost her front teeth
Posted by: "meralynn58" merdavi@ufl.edu meralynn58
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:05 am ((PST))

Thanks for the hints. I started feeding Audrey chicken on Saturday and
Oh, my God, it was so funny. Audrey got the first thigh and looked at
me like, "THIS is what I've been talking about. THIS is what you're
supposed to be feeding dogs! Finally, you're listening."

Usually I rub her belly and give her a good massage in the morning, we
go to the dog park, and then she eats when we get home. This morning
she started giving me clues that the petting was over. So, I thought
she wanted to go out to the park. Nope. She wanted breakfast. It was
wonderful!

Thanks so much! (Oh, and she has no problem with any of the bones. So
cool.)

Merrie Davidson

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "meralynn58" <merdavi@> wrote:
>
> > One thing is that she has worn down her front four teeth to nothing
> > on both her upper and lower jaw and all of her canines are short
and
> > absolutely flat.
> *****
> She'll do fine, although you may need to choose "easier" bones for
her
> untl she develops jaw strength...
>
> .
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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9. Feeding Salmon?
Posted by: "redangelbordeaux" Erika@redangelbordeaux.com redangelbordeaux
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:20 am ((PST))

I have found a place where I can purchase salmon filets with the bone
in for $1 a pound. There are 100lbs available that have been in a
freezer at below 0 for 2 years! Now the meat guy just wants to get it
out of his freezer, lol. Since I am feeding 6 mastiffs feeding fish
other that Talapia is usually very pricey and my dogs usually get
salmon oil instead of fish.

I have read that feeding wild caught pacific salmon is dangerous for
dogs due to a fluke parasite that they carry.

Is is possible to kill this parasite for definate by freezing the fish
alone or must it me cooked to be safe?

I can also get Talapia whole fish for the same price but on a regular
basis. Should I purchase the salmon or just stick with the Talapia?

Thanks all!
Erika

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10a. Want to start RAW feeding with Papillon
Posted by: "Maureen Doohan" ozjeno4@yahoo.com ozjeno4
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:21 am ((PST))

Hi Annie,

I have a small 10 year old Papilloin, who doesn't have all his teeth and has a bad heart. I have been feeding him raw for the past 8 months or more, his health is the best it has ever been. He gets everything that I feed to my Aussie just is smaller amounts, and has no problems with it, just takes him longer to eat it. He does not devour the rib bones (beef/sheep) that the Aussie does but still gets them to chew on, as I am sure that he still gets some benefit from them and a certain amount of calcium. He does however devour the chicken bones. Everything else he devours and loves. A vet actually told me that he would not survive without medication, since being RAW fed he has been off medication for quiet a while without any ill effects. He runs around like a young thing with no signs of distress and keeps my Aussie in her place. I only wish I had tried Raw feeding alot sooner, he may have kept his teeth longer and got a few more years on his life. Better late than never.

Regards Maureen

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Messages in this topic (3)
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11. deer head
Posted by: "Diane" dheinicke@sbcglobal.net dalethah
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:05 am ((PST))

Yesterday a hunter friend shot a small doe, had it butchered and saved
the head and neck. Any reason I shouldn't hand it to my dog. He's a 3
year old greyhound that's been raw fed for about 6 months.
Everything's been going good. He gets mostly whole chickens (a half at
a time), some beef heart and kindey, a whole fish once a week or so,
some pork every couple of weeks and an occasional egg. I want to add
some variety. Thumbs up?
Diane

Messages in this topic (1)
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