[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12283

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
From: totaly_his

2a. Re: 15 wk old puppy
From: Doguefan@aol.com
2b. Re: 15 wk old puppy
From: carnesbill
2c. 15wk old puppy
From: Janice Aquino
2d. Re: 15 wk old puppy
From: Sonja
2e. Re: 15 wk old puppy
From: Sandee Lee
2f. Re: 15 wk old puppy
From: Janice Aquino

3a. Re: Cutting up whole turkeys
From: jenvandecar
3b. Cutting up whole turkeys
From: DENISE HARMON

4a. Knife recommendations?
From: jastymd
4b. Re: Knife recommendations?
From: steph.sorensen
4c. Re: Knife recommendations?
From: Sonja
4d. Re: Knife recommendations?
From: K. LaRoe
4e. Re: Knife recommendations?
From: steph.sorensen

5a. Re: good price or not?
From: carnesbill
5b. Re: good price or not?
From: pelle567

6.1. Re: Feeding Pork
From: amvilppu

7a. After chicken, what's next?
From: Sandra Maclean
7b. After chicken, what's next?
From: Andrea
7c. Re: After chicken, what's next?
From: Sandee Lee

8a. Re: vet
From: Janice Aquino

9.1. Re: Whole raw feeders
From: Andrea

10a. Re: Complicated meals and furred animals
From: Andrea

11a. Re: Dehydrated liver versus fresh
From: Andrea

12.1. Re: Chicken Backs
From: costrowski75

Messages
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1a. Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
Posted by: "totaly_his" totaly_his@yahoo.com totaly_his
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:03 pm ((PST))

Giselle, I have the Slippery Elm Bark capsules. Do I open one up and
use the whole capsule with the broth? Is one capsule all I use? How
often? Thanks for your help and I will try what you have suggested.
Jackie

You might want to fast her for a day, offer plenty of low sodium low fat
> broth with a little Slippery Elm Bark Powder stirred into it to
soothe her
> digestive system.

Messages in this topic (7)
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2a. Re: 15 wk old puppy
Posted by: "Doguefan@aol.com" Doguefan@aol.com knoxkennels
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:03 pm ((PST))

Hello!? I thought I might throw my experience with this out there as well because I also have a giant breed.? I started feeding my DDB puppy raw at 3 1/2 months old(when I got her from the breeder-where she was on partial raw diet).? Interestingly, as I started my whole gang raw the time I got her and a another(much larger 16 month old male)I was feeding mostly chicken.? My other two dogues were totally new tot he diet and the newer two had only had some raw meat.? After two weeks, the 4 month old who had great strong pasturns and tight feet-went down on her pasturne and her feet started to splay.? I was worried I was doing something wrong.? I then started to really up the variety of foods and added more organs(they were not yet digestively ready previous).? I also heard from another breeder that if she was teething, which she was, that can cause them to look weak in the pasturns, but that it should correct itself shortly.? It did!? After two weeks she was strong on her pasturns and her fett were tight again.? I think I had a joint problem with not enough variety and a young dog going through chemical changes in her body.

Hope this gives you some other ideas to ponder.

Chelsea

-----Original Message-----
From: Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:12 am
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] 15 wk old puppy

Hi Janice,

Certainly a puppy shouldn't be over-exercised, but without knowing more
details, it's pretty hard to determine what's happening with this pup.

What exactly are you feeding? A prey model diet is the best you can do for
a growing puppy. It generally isn't meat that causes problems, but rather
carbohydrates (which I assume she is getting in cooked food?), too much
food, too many supplements, etc.

Give us some more details!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Janice Aquino" <janiceaquino@comcast.net>

I have puppy who looks like she has soft pastern/metacarpus area.
She's 14 weeks old and the other littermates are better in this area.
Could the reason be diet or exercise? She gets raw and cooked meals.
I am having her levels taken to check on how she is processing her food
also her urine is sticky and she drinks a good deal of water, we will
checking her for diabetes.

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
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2b. Re: 15 wk old puppy
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:03 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...>
wrote:
>
> She feeds more bone than this list recommends and has had
> no ortho. ... I have found that the dane craves more bone and
> does better with a little extra.

The 10% bone number is not a carved in stone number. It is an
arbitrary number someone came up with to illustrate that it's not
necessary to feed a lot of bone and thats all. The amount of bone
you feed your dog isn't critical. My guess is that anywhere between
5% and 35% or even more is ok.

The only 10% number I feel is close to accurate is that I'll bet
that less than 10% of the people on this list feed that little
amount of bone. If you feed whole animals or whole animal parts,
its pretty difficult to get down that small. Don't spend a lot of
time worrying about the amount of bone in your dog's diet.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (11)
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2c. 15wk old puppy
Posted by: "Janice Aquino" janiceaquino@comcast.net jaquino1792
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:07 pm ((PST))

Thanks Chelsea; I was just at the vet, they gave me a royal whipping
for feeding anything else but dog food. Since "dog food companies have
put so much research in their quality and they know best" she states
any problem I have with my dogs will be related to diet unless I
switch. I think I have to switch vets.

I asked for the total profile and resisted any arguements. She never
even checked for vaginitis after I asked her to do this several times,
it was clear she did not want to see my dogs. I usually go to another
vet there, he was on vacation. They state I am feeding too much meat,
I need a load of grains and veggies in my diet/according to the vet.

I will continue to do more reserach on this matter as well.
Any feedback will greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Janice

Messages in this topic (11)
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2d. Re: 15 wk old puppy
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:07 pm ((PST))

>The 10% bone number is not a carved in stone number. It is an
>arbitrary number someone came up with to illustrate that it's not
>necessary to feed a lot of bone and thats all. The amount of bone
>you feed your dog isn't critical. My guess is that anywhere between
>5% and 35% or even more is ok.

Bill, thank you for the clarification. I've been going a little bit batty trying to figure out if I've been feeding my pup too much bone. The whole 10% thing really throws me for a loop since I personally find it impossible to measure. The way I've been working it here at home, I have my husband on daily clean-up duty. He reports to me every morning what the dogs...um....produce, and based on that I play with the ratios of meat/bone/liver in each dog's meal. I just cross my fingures and hope it falls somewhere in the "acceptable" range!

Sonja

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Messages in this topic (11)
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2e. Re: 15 wk old puppy
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:42 pm ((PST))

Hi Sonja,

I don't know if it is coincidence either, but the idea that wolf pups only
get the left-overs is just not true. Possibly once they begin doing their
own hunting that *may* happen, but as pups they get the choicest of food.
The entire pack cares for the pups, bringing back food to
regurgitate...meat, sinew, connective tissue, intestinal fat, etc.

Good wolf info can be found on these sites.....
http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/mammals/regurg/index.htm

http://www.wolfcountry.net/information/WolfPup.html
"In a few weeks (4-5 weeks), the pups start eating meat. This is brought to
them in the stomachs of the adult wolves. The pups lick around the mouth of
the adult, and the food comes back up into the adult's mouth. This sounds
terrible to us, but wolf pups love it!
All the wolves in a pack help take care of the pups. When the pups are very
small, other pack members bring food to the mother so she does not have to
leave the den. When the pups are a little bigger, pack members "take turns"
bringing them food, playing with them and even "baby sitting." Once the pups
are about eight weeks old, they leave the den and start using "rendezvous
sites." These are meeting places where the wolves gather to sleep, play and
just "hang out." Until the pups are old enough to go with the adults, (when
pups are six months old, they look almost like adult wolves. Around this
time, they start hunting with the rest of the pack) they stay at the
rendezvous site. Often, one of the adult wolves stays with the pups to watch
over them."

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Sonja" <ladyver@sbcglobal.net>

> I'm still a newbie, I've been feeding my 3 yr old lab raw for 10 months
and I've been feeding raw to my 5 month old lab puppy for just over a month.
So please don't take this as fact, I'm just throwing it out there to see if
it could be a possibility. One of my mentors who gave me the courage to raw
feed a growing puppy has sucessfully raw fed her labs for 5 or so
generations, and her dogs are doing great in the in the show ring with no
orthopedic problems or other health problems. She told me that she keeps her
pups on a higher percentage of bone because wolf pups usually get the scraps
of a kill.

Messages in this topic (11)
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2f. Re: 15 wk old puppy
Posted by: "Janice Aquino" janiceaquino@comcast.net jaquino1792
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:56 pm ((PST))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES!

Hi Sandy:
Here is her diet;
She's getting a home based diet. A combined meat, 1 raw meal a day
and 2 cooked meals, of mixed or one of the following meats per day,
lamb, duck, chicken, goat, beef, sometimes egg scrambled. 80% meat,
5% organ 5% bone, she gets green tripe almost every meal mixed with
her food, 10% grain and veggies mix, grain/brown rice sticky rice
combo, very small portion of mix with sweet potato & yucca, carrots,
peas or other veggies & legumes. She also gets vitamin, E and
biotin mixed with 1 meal a day, sometimes fish oil for omega 3 & 6
amnt). She can get cottage cheese, and other cheeses for snacks.

She rests often during day and sleeps all night. She runs in puppy
yard short stints, at puppy speed. She plays with a 16month old
bitch, who is very gentle with her. She's harder on the 15month old
than the other way. She also plays kids a little, bites on my a
while and plays by herself, but its all intermittently during the day
in between numerous naps and quiet time. She's really not the most
active puppy I have ever seen.

From feedback I am thinking I need more bone in her meal, feed 100%
raw...the only problem some of mine will not eat raw at all some will
so I am in a bit of a tight spot.

I'm a bit discuraged at this point after getting reamed at my vets
today. Looking for a holistic vet at this point.

Messages in this topic (11)
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3a. Re: Cutting up whole turkeys
Posted by: "jenvandecar" jenvandecar@hotmail.com jenvandecar
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:03 pm ((PST))

Thanks Giselle. That gives me the confidence i needed to try cutting
up the whole bird. Just can't beat the prices right now. The videos
were helpful!

Jennifer

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Jennifer!
> Heavy duty kitchen shears will do the job.
>
> For the most part, you won't be cutting through bone, you'll be
cutting at
> the joint where there are tendons and soft cartilage. It doesn't have
to be
> a pretty job, either, just cut where its easiest.

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Cutting up whole turkeys
Posted by: "DENISE HARMON" Harmonydobes1@msn.com dobermom_shibamom
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:44 pm ((PST))

Every year at this time I stock up on turkey! You cut it like a chicken. I use a butcher knife and go at it. I have cut up and froze 15 turkeys already and plan on more. I am feeding 3 Dobermans and 3 Shiba Inu's. The dobermans have no trouble with the bones. The shiba's get the smaller bones, ribs, breast....

I do keep a couple of the breasts for us. They love turkey.

Dee Harmon

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Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Knife recommendations?
Posted by: "jastymd" jaysboy@hotmail.com jastymd
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

I am Jay have a new 14 week Airedale Terrier puppy, who was weaned on
raw and decided to keep it up....he is so happy and full of
energy...but of course that is typical of Airedales......but he loves
his raw meals.
The adventure for me is finding reasonably prices sources,and all the
usual stuff that people on this list seem to be going thru...this list
is a great resource.
My question is I started to by whole chickens and turkeys and wondered
if others had suggestions on the best knives or way to "wack" them up
with?
Jay and Ollie

Messages in this topic (5)
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4b. Re: Knife recommendations?
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:07 pm ((PST))

I need to invest in a good cleaver, as I imagine this would be
helpful, but of what I do have, I have used my electric knife the
most! For the chicken and turkey bones, however, which are softer, I
think getting a decent cleaver and keeping it sharp would be the best
way to go.

-Steph and the girls

Great for sawing a pork shoulder in half! I like giving my girls
large portions, but cutting an 8-lb pork shoulder into two 4-lb pieces
works better for me.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jastymd" <jaysboy@...> wrote:
>
> My question is I started to by whole chickens and turkeys and
wondered
> if others had suggestions on the best knives or way to "wack" them
up
> with?
> Jay and Ollie
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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4c. Re: Knife recommendations?
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:07 pm ((PST))

I personally love Henckels knives, but they do require maintenance and my favorites have to be sharpened every 6 months or so. Plus it's a big hit to the pocketbook. For the dog's food, I've found that a good sturdy (comfortable!) pair of kitchen or poultry shears will do the trick. I haven't really had a need to use any other knife for the "dog food"....aside from a cleaver to hack a duck back in half.

Sonja

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Messages in this topic (5)
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4d. Re: Knife recommendations?
Posted by: "K. LaRoe" gravitymail@gmail.com gravith
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:14 pm ((PST))

I do a LOT of home cooking, including whacking up and boning various meats
to make stock and stews.
After balancing price with performance, I bought a few of the Tramontina
Professional series.
I use the 8" Chef's Knife <http://tinyurl.com/2j28tt> for nearly everything
in the kitchen. I could easily get along with just that one knife.

When you use a good knife, you should have a sharpening steel as well. It's
the key to a sharp blade.
A butcher will only have his knives sharpened once a year or so, but he
steels them several times a day.
When you're cutting something, the sharpened edge of your knife can get tiny
bends in it that need to be straightened out so that it can cut cleanly
again.
That's what a steel is for. In household use, just 3 or 4 strokes on each
side of the knife will make it razor sharp by getting rid of these bends and
restoring the edge to straight. If you were to sharpen the knife, you could
end up with nicks and grind away good steel. Over sharpening can ruin
knives. Here is a link to a
video<http://www.gunterwilhelm.com/Steeling.asp>showing how to steel
your knives. It is awkward at first, but practice makes
it easier.

You'll find that you cut yourself a lot less once you're using a really
sharp knife to slice up your meat because the blade doesn't deflect as much.

And always, the key to being able to slice up anything is to have a working
knowledge of the bones and joints so that you know where to cut.

- k.
On Nov 15, 2007 3:06 PM, jastymd <jaysboy@hotmail.com> wrote:

> My question is I started to by whole chickens and turkeys and wondered
> if others had suggestions on the best knives or way to "wack" them up
> with?
> Jay and Ollie
>
> __
>
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (5)
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4e. Re: Knife recommendations?
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:30 pm ((PST))

I have Henckels knives too! I started collecting on my wedding
registry. I just love them, for me and for the dog's food. I'm
asking my parents to get us the electric knife sharpener for Christmas!

-Steph and the girls

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <ladyver@...> wrote:
>
> I personally love Henckels knives
>
> Sonja

Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. Re: good price or not?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "hunterblu123" <ksap@...> wrote:

> There is a
> local turkey plant down the road from me were I can get turkey necks
> from they are $.60 a pound and comes in a 30# box is this a
> good deal?

I get turkey necks from anywhere between $.45 to $.70 pound. The
price is different everytime I get it. I never know until I order it
how much it will be. Sometimes I can get turkey wings cheaper. I
would feed your dog one of these for a meal a couple of times a week.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: good price or not?
Posted by: "pelle567" krjoyner@firstam.com pelle567
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:36 pm ((PST))

That's a super deal, but too much bone for regular meals. You want on
average 80% meat in a meal; if you've handled them you can tell it's
mostly bone. Not enough meat for the poor darlings, a turkey thigh
would make for a happier pup.

Katie

Messages in this topic (3)
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6.1. Re: Feeding Pork
Posted by: "amvilppu" amvilppu@hotmail.com amvilppu
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

(6mon old Boxer/3yr old Old English Bulldog) on
> raw. I put my 1.5yr old Pitbull on raw about 6-8mon
> ago. Obviously, the Boxer is still growing. Currently
> weighs about 60lbs. Should i be feeding it the
> "regular" 3% of its weight or should i be feeding a
> bit more since its still growing and gradually
> increase as its weight increases? Also, should i let
> it tear apart its own meat or should i cut into 1/4lb
> pieces? Those it usually chews a few times and then
> swallows them whole after a few chews. Ill chop
> chicken leg/thigh 1/4's into 3 pieces and he tears
> them up from there. >
>
Hi Cesar-

I wouldn't cut up the chicken quarters at all for the Boxer pup. My Boxer pup is almost 5
months and she can eat a whole bone in chicken breast with attached wing or drumstick/
thigh quarter with no problem. She can also eat a whole chicken back in a snap. She
tends to be a gulper with smaller pieces of meat, even if they should really be chewed.
She usually gets a hunk of meat the size of her head or larger to discourage this, even if it
takes 2 meals for her to finish it. For puppies you will be feeding 2 to 3 percent of the
ideal adult weight not their current weight. Your boxer sounds like he is going to be a big
boy! Our girl is only 31lbs. Hope that helps. Good luck!
Annaliisa, Drew, and Boxer pup Laila

Messages in this topic (43)
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7a. After chicken, what's next?
Posted by: "Sandra Maclean" sandymac0930@yahoo.com sandymac0930
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:36 pm ((PST))

I don't mean to jump in the middle but I have the same concern. My 5mo Cornish Rex kitten has been on Nature's Variety Chicken medallions since Sat night 11/10). Would I follow the same program too? i.e. still keep him on chicken then introduce lamb, or rabbit? How long should I keep him on the chicken? I've been feeding him 3 medallions in the morning and 3 at night. I'm not sure that's enough. He seems hungry for more. Still drinks a lot of water and I scoop about 6-7 urine scoops/day. I've called the vet to ask about this, I'm hoping it's just normal for him? He's been like this since I was adopted by him 2 months ago at 11 1/2 weeks. No other symptoms other than arching his back mid eating to finish eating his breakfast or dinner. That seems odd too...
Sandra

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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7b. After chicken, what's next?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:09 pm ((PST))

I don't know anything about prefab foods, but for me the big struggle
with my cats was just getting them to try different foods. I've
never seen them have problems getting used to new proteins, I just
threw a bunch of variety at them and let them choose what they wanted
to eat. Now that they will eat what they are given, I just give them
a big chunk of food (put half a chicken down) and let them go at it.
Every once in a while I might notice one of them getting bigger than
I would like, so I will make an effort to take them away from the
food when they have had enough, but I don't measure anything for
them. After the battle of getting them to actually eat raw food they
have become pretty easy keepers.

As far as urine production and drinking lots of water, that might be
related to the other "stuff" in the medallions.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sandra Maclean <sandymac0930@...>
wrote:

> Would I follow the same program too? i.e. still keep him on chicken
then introduce lamb, or rabbit? How long should I keep him on the
chicken? I've been feeding him 3 medallions in the morning and 3 at
night. I'm not sure that's enough. He seems hungry for more.

Messages in this topic (5)
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7c. Re: After chicken, what's next?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:54 pm ((PST))

Sandra,

Generally the premade mixes do not contain enough meat and fat (which are
satiating) so it is likely he is still hungry. The increased urination
could be caused by the veggies, for instance parsley is a diuretic.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Sandra Maclean" <sandymac0930@yahoo.com>

> I don't mean to jump in the middle but I have the same concern. My 5mo
Cornish Rex kitten has been on Nature's Variety Chicken medallions since Sat
night 11/10). Would I follow the same program too? i.e. still keep him on
chicken then introduce lamb, or rabbit? How long should I keep him on the
chicken? I've been feeding him 3 medallions in the morning and 3 at night.
I'm not sure that's enough. He seems hungry for more. Still drinks a lot of
water and I scoop about 6-7 urine scoops/day. I've called the vet to ask
about this, I'm hoping it's just normal for him? He's been like this since I
was adopted by him 2 months ago at 11 1/2 weeks. No other symptoms other
than arching his back mid eating to finish eating his breakfast or dinner.
That seems odd too...

Messages in this topic (5)
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8a. Re: vet
Posted by: "Janice Aquino" janiceaquino@comcast.net jaquino1792
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:30 pm ((PST))

Raw Feeding for dogs and cats!my vet then asked me specifically what kind of kibble. She was livid when I told her from my kitchen/freezer. ..she was livid....
I think I too will just pick a kibble next time/maybe Precise----precisely raw.
Janice
----- Original Message -----
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:03 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12282

Raw Feeding for dogs and cats!
Messages In This Digest (25 Messages)
1a. Re: I need a new vet!! From: Donna
2a. After chicken, what's next? From: marlena_adema
2b. Re: After chicken, what's next? From: Andrea
3a. Re: Would like to start feeding raw diet From: katkellm
3b. Re: Would like to start feeding raw diet From: Giselle
4a. 11 year old bulldog From: monicanation7
4b. Re: 11 year old bulldog From: rosey031801
4c. Re: 11 year old bulldog From: costrowski75
4d. Re: 11 year old bulldog From: carnesbill
5a. Re: possible allergies?? From: Andrea
5b. Re: possible allergies?? From: costrowski75
5c. Re: possible allergies?? From: Mundi Smithers
6a. Re: They won't eat chicken From: Andrea
7.1. Re: Chicken Backs From: Andrea
7.2. Re: Chicken Backs From: Alexandra de Guzman
8a. Re: 2 months into raw From: Andrea
9a. constipated puppy From: droghedabullmastiff@comcast.net
10a. arthritis From: kkellogg22004
10b. Re: arthritis From: rosey031801
11a. Re: 15 wk old puppy From: Sonja
11b. Re: 15 wk old puppy From: Felicia Kost
11c. Re: 15 wk old puppy From: Sandee Lee
12a. Cutting up whole turkeys From: jenvandecar
12b. Re: Cutting up whole turkeys From: Giselle
13. good price or not? From: hunterblu123
View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages
1a. Re: I need a new vet!!
Posted by: "Donna" donnad2998@yahoo.com donnad2998
Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:25 am (PST)
I printed out information on RAW feeding and took it to my new vet.
I said this is how I feed my dogs. If you want to be of service to
them them please read about how they are fed so you can treat them
accordingly. I thanked her and turned and walked out. If they want
my business they will read.
Donna

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Shannon Parker <mrbatisse@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi There,
>
> Just stop telling your vet you feed raw. They are the last
person you should look to for an unbiased opinion, so just tell them
you feed a high quality kibble. Most dog-related issues won't be a
result of your diet, especially if you're on raw.
> Shannon
>
>
>
>
> hungrymoses <hungrymoses@...> wrote:
> MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Is there anyone out there who can recommend a vet in the Montreal
area
> that won't tell me what an idiot I am for feeding my dog a raw
diet?
> I've already been to three that have warned me of the horrible
danger
> I'm putting my dog in. Please help...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar : Search from anywhere on the
web and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now!
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Messages in this topic (7)
2a. After chicken, what's next?
Posted by: "marlena_adema" marlena_adema@yahoo.ca marlena_adema
Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:46 am (PST)
My pooch has been on raw chicken for about 3 weeks. She's begun
turkey and small amounts of chicken liver. All goes well. But what
new meats can I now start introducing? I'm thinking the next step is
lamb, beef, pork and fish -- but should I be doing this in any order
working her way up from easier to digest meat to meat for
more "advanced" raw feeders?

I would appreciate it if someone could guide us into our second phase,
3rd, 4th ...

Thanks kindly,
Marlena

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Messages in this topic (2)
2b. Re: After chicken, what's next?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:08 am (PST)
There's no "best" next choice, just as long as you don't go nuts with
variety. You could continue with turkey until you are sure she's good
with it. You could go to pork after that, then rabbit, then beef, etc.

Depending on how your girl did with the initial transition, I would
recommend adding some new food to a small chicken meal and working up
the amount of new food over a couple of days. With turkey it isn't
that big of a deal, but beef and pork can create loose stools since
they are generally fattier than poultry.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "marlena_adema" <marlena_adema@...>
wrote:

> I'm thinking the next step is lamb, beef, pork and fish -- but should
> I be doing this in any order working her way up from easier to digest
> meat to meat for more "advanced" raw feeders?

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Messages in this topic (2)
3a. Re: Would like to start feeding raw diet
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:47 am (PST)
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "stark_rain24" <stark_rain24@...>
wrote:

> Here are my questions:
> 1. I live in a small condo and don't have the funds or space to get
a freezer. Is it still
> possible to raw feed fairly inexpensively, if I'm not able to buy in
bulk?

You can usually find meat on sale at the grocery store every week, so
you just need to watch the ads and buy whats on sale. Here is a link
to check for stores around you

http://www.sundaysaver.com/#

> 2. How much do you typically pay per month for raw feeding? I'm
feeding Timberwolf right
> now, which for my dog, who is a 50 lbs, is about $25 or a little
more per month.

I keep my cost at a dollar a pound. Usually you can find chicken on
sale for less than a dollar a pound and that then allows you to spend
more than a dollar on pork or beef. The cost can average out to be
about a dollar a pound. Since your dog weighs 50lbs you will probably
want to feed about a pound a day so you'll spend about a dollar a day.

> 3. Would a place like Kroger's have things like organs, or should I
find a more private, old
> school grocery store?

I am sure that Giselle will send you the link for the Lis list which
lists ways to source out meats economically. I live in the country
and go to the the slaughterhouse for some things now, but before i did
that kind of thing, i averaged out at a dollar a pound from the
Jewel, Wal-Mart, and some local stores.

> This message board is really great bc it would be almost impossible
for me to get the
> initiative to change over without support and info.

I fed Timberwolf, California Natural, and Natures Variety prior to
feeding raw, and i can tell you with a 100% sincerity that switching
to raw was the best thing i have done for my 3. They have had skin
and eating disorder issues disappear on raw. Meal time is sooo fun
now. Even if it wasn't better for them, which it is, they are
mentally happier on a raw diet. Really and truthfully, you can do it
for about the same price as designer kibble, but you'll get tons more
for your buck. KathyM

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Messages in this topic (6)
3b. Re: Would like to start feeding raw diet
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:31 am (PST)
Wa-La!

The Lis List;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/139618*

*Post #139618*
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

<snip>
>
>
>
> I am sure that Giselle will send you the link for the Lis list which
> lists ways to source out meats economically. I live in the country
> and go to the the slaughterhouse for some things now, but before i did
> that kind of thing, i averaged out at a dollar a pound from the
> Jewel, Wal-Mart, and some local stores.
>
> <snip>
>

> KathyM
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (6)
4a. 11 year old bulldog
Posted by: "monicanation7" monicanation@hvc.rr.com monicanation7
Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:59 am (PST)
MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!

hi i'm new to the group and wanted some advice about portions and suppliments. my
bulldog began showing signs of arthritis - was limping etc and had a really dry nose - an
eye was starting to get a white film - scary! so a friend told me about raw diet and hit it
home by mentioning canines never mastered the art of starting a fire! the misconception
that dogs need food cooked because of parasites etc has been used to scare most people
out of a raw diet - people identify with their pets sometimes on a "human" level and can't
imagine their "baby" eating raw meat because they don't... i can see how commerical dog
"food" companies exploint this the max. anyway since i started her on raw meat - i
started with ground beef adding carrots - parsley - flax seed - brewers yeast - beef hearts
ground - liver ground - made into patties - froze it and kept three days in the fridge at a
time - (we call it the meat drop) he arthritis is gone - her nose is wet - her skin has
blackened where it had "faded" and her eye is totally healed. she lost about 7 (un-needed)
pounds and looks like a puppy - so i am sure i'm on the right path - even at this late stage
in the game. two questions- my vet said that raw chicken can kill a dog via salmonella
(sp) and under no circumstances should i feed the dog raw chicken - and she basically
looked at me like i was killing my dog by feeding it raw - like "you'll see" - i didn't stop
the diet but stopped chicken. - no i'm reading that grinding the meat is not good and she
should have pieces etc.. with bone..
what exactly should i ask my butcher for? shoud i cut a piece of liver and or heart and just
throw it into the bowl? how much? she'll eat anything and everything i put in her bowl so
iportion out her meat to about 12-13 ounces split in two - morning and night - seems
like a good amount - plus lots of marrow bones - what about parsley - carrots etc.. is
this a waste to give her?
i'm a believer in the diet - you'd be foolish to feed your dog anything else! thanks very
much!

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Messages in this topic (4)
4b. Re: 11 year old bulldog
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:22 am (PST)
You said...

>>>>my vet said that raw chicken can kill a dog via salmonella
(sp) and under no circumstances should i feed the dog raw chicken - and
she basically looked at me like i was killing my dog by feeding it raw -
like "you'll see" - i didn't stop the diet but stopped chicken. -<<<<<<

There is no truth in this. I have fed my dog primarily chicken since
june 06. Why would chicken be any different than other meats? They are
all safe for dogs to eat raw. Your vet wants to discourage you because
of his own opinion and lack of knowledge. I give my dog raw meat, bone
and all, mostly leg quarters. I give beef liver, kidney and also eggs
too to provide a variety but not daily.
Read some more here and you will see the truth. Change vets!
Cheryl

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Messages in this topic (4)
4c. Re: 11 year old bulldog
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:51 am (PST)
"monicanation7" <monicanation@...> wrote:
>> hi i'm new to the group and wanted some advice about portions and
suppliments.
*****
This part is easy: feed 2%-3% of your dog's ideal adult weight using
a variety of animal proteins and a variety of body parts. Use
supplements if and when specific issues require them.
Supplementing "just because" is like throwing darts in the dark.

my
> bulldog began showing signs of arthritis - was limping etc and had
a really dry nose - an
> eye was starting to get a white film - scary!
*****
How old is your bulldog?

anyway since i started her on raw meat - i
> started with ground beef adding carrots - parsley - flax seed -
brewers yeast - beef hearts
> ground - liver ground - made into patties - froze it and kept three
days in the fridge at a
> time - (we call it the meat drop) he arthritis is gone - her nose
is wet - her skin has
> blackened where it had "faded" and her eye is totally healed. she
lost about 7 (un-needed)
> pounds and looks like a puppy - so i am sure i'm on the right path -
even at this late stage
> in the game.
*****
This is exceptionally good fortune. While her current menu is not
optimal in several areas, it does provide clear evidence that kibble
sucks. Imagine what you will be doing for her when you stop feeding
her plant matter and ground meats and start feeding her a good
species appropriate diet! Zounds!

She doesn't need ground anything. She doesn't need patties. She
needs edible bone for nutrients (including but not limited to
calcium), for dental hygiene, for physical and mental amusement. And
you don't need the extra work. Better to spend "prep" time looking
for lovely meaty body parts that will never see the inside of a
grinder.

my vet said that raw chicken can kill a dog via salmonella
> (sp) and under no circumstances should i feed the dog raw chicken -
and she basically
> looked at me like i was killing my dog by feeding it raw -
like "you'll see" - i didn't stop
> the diet but stopped chicken.
*****
This is one of an undereducated vet's primary threats. Baloney.

Feed chicken knowing FULL well that a dog's digestive system is
different from a human's, and that any animal that licks its butt and
genitals and eats dead things and cat poop and worms is not bothered
by raw chicken. Know also that kibble is similarly burdened with
bacteria not to mention other germy "contaminants". Fear of germs
runs deep in the medical profession.

You may be doing your girl some injustice by feeding ground meat and
veggie patties but you are a LONG way from killing her. If you're
interested, we have any number of references you can give to your
misguided vet. At the very least you should definitely check out:

http://rawfed.com

http://rawfeddogs.net

- no i'm reading that grinding the meat is not good and she
> should have pieces etc.. with bone..
> what exactly should i ask my butcher for?
*****
These questions have been asked and answered thousands of times, no
fooling. Please take some time to browse the message archives. If
you do not have access Yahoogroups, please join (it's easy) and go
the Rawfeeding home page and proceed to poke around in the hoard of
information the archives provide.

--what to tell the butcher you want (don't ask, tell)
--what are organs and what are not and how to feed either
--what are "wreck" bones and how not to fall victim to them
--why vegetables are neither useful nor recommended
--why feeding larger meals once a day (or less) may benefit your dog

Chris O

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Messages in this topic (4)
4d. Re: 11 year old bulldog
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:00 am (PST)
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "monicanation7"
<monicanation@...> wrote:
>
> i
> started with ground beef adding carrots - parsley - flax seed -
brewers yeast - beef hearts
> ground - liver ground - made into patties - froze it and kept
three days in the fridge at a
> time - (we call it the meat drop)

> two questions- my vet said that raw chicken can kill a dog
> via salmonella
> (sp) and under no circumstances should i feed the dog raw
> chicken

Your vet needs to study the physiology of a dog. Something she
should have spend a great deal of time doing in vet school. Dogs
stomach acids are very very strong. Strong enough to kill and
salmonella or e-coli or other such bacteria. The intestines are
short enough that food is expelled from be body before any more can
form. Salmonella just isn't a problem for dogs.

I have fed my dogs raw chicken every day for over 5 years. I can't
remember any digestive upset in the last 3 or 4 of those years.

> i didn't stop
> the diet but stopped chicken.

Feed chicken. Its good for your dog. The bones will do wonders for
his teeth. Don't grind it. Feed whole chicken parts.

> what exactly should i ask my butcher for?

You can feed whole chickens, half chickens, chicken quarters or
individual chicken parts depending on the size of your dog. You can
feed any part of the chicken, turkey, pig, cow, rabbit, goat, lamb
that you want except maybe the intestines and stomach.

> shoud i cut a piece of liver and or heart and just
> throw it into the bowl?

Yes

> how much?

Just a little to begin with. Add more over time when you are sure
it doesn't cause digestive upset. You don't really need to feed
much. I feed just a glob once a week or so. Maybe 1/2lb each to my
Great Danes.

> plus lots of marrow bones

I wouldn't feed marrow bones. Too hard on teeth. I don't feed any
beef bones at all.

> what about parsley - carrots etc.. is
> this a waste to give her?

Yes, absolutely. Dogs are carnivores. They don't need nor can they
properly digest veggies and friuts and grains.

> i'm a believer in the diet - you'd be foolish to feed your
> dog anything else!

Exactly!

Bill Carnes

http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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Messages in this topic (4)
5a. Re: possible allergies??
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:12 am (PST)
I missed the original thread, so I'm sorry if I'm asking repeat
questions. Does Cicero eat anything besides the chicken and beef, like
treats or something? After only two weeks you might be a little
impatient, it takes some time for the immune system to right itself.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Mundi Smithers <amenfarm@...> wrote:

> Cicero has been on raw chicken and some beef for approximately 2
> weeks ( by the way he has been fed many different raw ground meats
> on his kibble since 8 weeks). I don't see any improvement in his
> ears....... yet. Am I being impatient?

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Messages in this topic (4)
5b. Re: possible allergies??
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:52 am (PST)
Mundi Smithers <amenfarm@...> wrote:
Cicero has been on
> raw chicken and some beef for approximately 2 weeks ( by the way he
has
> been fed many different raw ground meats on his kibble since 8 weeks).
> I don't see any improvement in his ears....... yet. Am I being
> impatient?
*****
Of course. Two weeks is bupkis. Assuming he's not responding poorly
to anything else in his life (pretty big assumption), his system will
still need time to flush out the crap.

I doubt he is allergic to chicken; he may however be sensitive to any
enhancements the chicken may have gotten. And of course feedlot beef
brings its own bag o' potential miseries to a raw diet. If after
another couple of weeks you see no improvement anywhere, you may want
to experiment with foods that are NOT raised on corn and/or soy. For
trial purposes, consider feeding meats that are either grassfed or not
heavily grainfed.

The bigger problem though is what else is screwing with his system?
Vaccines? Medicines? Environmental chemicals--yard and household,
topical and injested? These are not likely to be fully addressed by
diet change. For guidance on these significant other issues, you'll
want to go to RawChat since they would not necessarily be diet/menu
solutions.

Chris O

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Messages in this topic (4)
5c. Re: possible allergies??
Posted by: "Mundi Smithers" amenfarm@wildblue.net duchessduwindsor
Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:22 am (PST)
Andrea,
His diet is strictly raw with the exception of freeze dried liver for
treats and training.
Mundi

I missed the original thread, so I'm sorry if I'm asking repeat
questions. Does Cicero eat anything besides the chicken and beef, like
treats or something? After only two weeks you might be a little
impatient, it takes some time for the immune system to right itself.

Andrea

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Messages in this topic (4)
6a. Re: They won't eat chicken
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:15 am (PST)
Be firm with them and don't make a fuss over the food. Give them
chicken and walk away. If they don't start eating it in 15-20 minutes
pick it up without making a fuss and put it away. Serve the same meal
next feeding time, no treats in between. Don't try to coax them to eat
or put bribe foods on or in the chicken. They used to eat chicken just
fine, right? So they know it is food, but they think they can train
you to give them something better.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mrsmenk" <mrsmenk@...> wrote:
>
> I have been reading your messages for the past few weeks as I
> transitioned my dogs (8 yr old lab/dane mix and 5 yr old dane) to
> raw. They are now both eating raw but are turning away chicken.

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Messages in this topic (4)
7.1. Re: Chicken Backs
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:28 am (PST)
> i picked up a small chicken whole and noticed that the legs ( i
> think it was legs?) are pretty small and hard...i'm wondering if
> it's possible for them to crack their teeth on this? I know a lot
> of people said chicken bones are pretty soft but i'm not sure if
> that includes all the bones of the chicken?

No, chicken bones won't damage a dog or cat's teeth unless there is
something already wrong with the teeth. Though the dog might not
have the jaw strength to crush the bones, the teeth are strong enough
to break the bone. Beef bones are pretty dense and many dogs do
not/can not eat them. The weight bearing bones (leg bones) are
extremely dense, those are the ones that can damage teeth.

> are there any parts i shoudl keep clear of? snowy is 20lbs and he
> can barely fit a tennis ball in his mouth....

Other than weight bearing bones of large animals, I would only stay
away from itty bitty things that can be swallowed whole. Chicken
drummettes, lone wings, etc.

Andrea

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Messages in this topic (44)
7.2. Re: Chicken Backs
Posted by: "Alexandra de Guzman" degoonacoon@earthlink.net degoonacoon
Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:55 am (PST)
Hi- I buy backs very inexpensively. And they love them!! Alex

On 11/15/07 12:54 AM, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, Pat!
> I don't buy backs.
>
> Why buy bony parts that you need to add meat to?
>
>

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Messages in this topic (44)
8a. Re: 2 months into raw
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:47 am (PST)
> I have been doing mainly liver.......what else can I feed them?

Kidney is the other organ I find most easily. If you go to less
mainstream markets you will likely be able to find sweetbreads. I
bought some buffalo fries from our buying group. Brains, lungs,
pancreas, eyeballs, all of these are organs.

> Does anyone have any ideas for me as far as what I can do to mix it
> up a little.

Have you found out if you have a buying group nearby? I found I
could afford a lot more variety once I started buying through them.
Also search out the ethnic markets in your area. If you see
something that looks interesting, buy it. Once you start hunting for
new foods it gets kind of addicting, so consider yourself warned.

> An example of a daily meal for your pets would be great (including
> muscle meat, bone, organ ratio/weight).

Well, my boys are about 60lbs and they don't necessarily get meat,
bone and organ all in one day. Yesterday they had a duck with
whatever organs come in a duck. Today the pupster will get a leg of
goat, the older one won't eat today. Tomorrow they will probably
have some beef heart and a medium sized fish (baby bonito). I
basically buy a whole bunch of things and then randomly pull stuff
out for them to eat without any real plan.

Andrea

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Messages in this topic (2)
9a. constipated puppy
Posted by: "droghedabullmastiff@comcast.net" droghedabullmastiff@comcast.net droghedabullmastiff
Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:05 am (PST)
I am worried that the pup might have a blockage from swollowing something he shouldn't have. Has any one checked if there are sounds from his gut the entire length? Is he keeping food and water down with no problems? Sorry to bring up an unpleasant topic but puppies like babies put all kinds of things in their mouths. Years ago a pup I was boarding got my daughter's ponytail scrunchie and swollowed it whole. It was too big to pass all the way thru and he had surgery[ Cost $85.00 which I made Sabrina repay from her allowance because she had been warned many times to not leave anything like that where a pup could get it] Rose

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (3)
10a. arthritis
Posted by: "kkellogg22004" kkellogg22004@yahoo.com kkellogg22004
Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:01 am (PST)
I don't remember reading anything about this specific topic here....

I've been feeding my two 9-year-old dogs prey-model raw for about a
month and a half. I understand that vitamins and other supplements
are not needed when feeding this way, since dogs are getting complete
nutrition.

One of my dogs (rescue) has arthritis and an old neck injury; I had
been giving her Synovi G3 daily. Should I continue with this, use
something else, or stop all supplementation? I take Move-Free by
Shiff myself, so I'm well aware of how helpful glucosamine and
chondroitin can be, especially for old knees!

Thanks,

Kate

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Messages in this topic (17)
10b. Re: arthritis
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:42 am (PST)
MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM YOUR MESSAGES!

I have a old dog that was hit by a car years ago and has lots of pain
issues to due scaring and arthritis. I find that if feed more bone he
does fine. If he gets boneless for more than two days in a row he has
problems. I have discontinued his meds and just give it to him when
he needs them, which may be once every 3 months. The bone and
cartlige does the trick!!!
Cheryl

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kkellogg22004"
<kkellogg22004@...> wrote:
>
> I don't remember reading anything about this specific topic here....
>
> I've been feeding my two 9-year-old dogs prey-model raw for about a
> month and a half. I understand that vitamins and other supplements
> are not needed when feeding this way, since dogs are getting
complete
> nutrition.
>
> One of my dogs (rescue) has arthritis and an old neck injury; I had
> been giving her Synovi G3 daily. Should I continue with this, use
> something else, or stop all supplementation? I take Move-Free by
> Shiff myself, so I'm well aware of how helpful glucosamine and
> chondroitin can be, especially for old knees!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kate
>

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Messages in this topic (17)
11a. Re: 15 wk old puppy
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:43 am (PST)
I'm still a newbie, I've been feeding my 3 yr old lab raw for 10 months and I've been feeding raw to my 5 month old lab puppy for just over a month. So please don't take this as fact, I'm just throwing it out there to see if it could be a possibility. One of my mentors who gave me the courage to raw feed a growing puppy has sucessfully raw fed her labs for 5 or so generations, and her dogs are doing great in the in the show ring with no orthopedic problems or other health problems. She told me that she keeps her pups on a higher percentage of bone because wolf pups usually get the scraps of a kill. When she did attempt to feed more meat and lower the bone percentage, she found the whole litter had weak pasterns, but fully admits she doesn't know if it was coincidence or not. It was enough for her to continue feeding the higher percentage of bone, and she hasn't had a problem since.

This is only one case, so I wouldn't make any decisions based on it....but to you veterens out there, could there be any validity to this?

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (5)
11b. Re: 15 wk old puppy
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:55 am (PST)
Hi, I am not a veteren but I do know a few. A friend of mine breeds NR great danes for several generations. She feeds more bone than this list recommends and has had no ortho. or other health problems ( one bitch did get cancer at an old age). I feed 2 dogs; a dane and a heeler. I have found that the dane craves more bone and does better with a little extra. The heeler does better with less bone. I assume that a benefit of raw is that u can feed to an individual dogs needs ( although they are all similar). My dane has days where she will pick out the bones and leave the meat. Works great for the heeler LOL! I try to adjust according to the dogs stool. I am also curious as to what other respones will be. Thanks Felicia

. When she did attempt to feed more meat and lower the bone percentage, she found the whole litter had weak pasterns, but fully admits she doesn't know if it was coincidence or not.This is only one case, so I wouldn't make any decisions based on it....but to you veterens out there, could there be any validity to this?

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (5)
11c. Re: 15 wk old puppy
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:12 am (PST)
Hi Janice,

Certainly a puppy shouldn't be over-exercised, but without knowing more
details, it's pretty hard to determine what's happening with this pup.

What exactly are you feeding? A prey model diet is the best you can do for
a growing puppy. It generally isn't meat that causes problems, but rather
carbohydrates (which I assume she is getting in cooked food?), too much
food, too many supplements, etc.

Give us some more details!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Janice Aquino" <janiceaquino@comcast.net>

I have puppy who looks like she has soft pastern/metacarpus area.
She's 14 weeks old and the other littermates are better in this area.
Could the reason be diet or exercise? She gets raw and cooked meals.
I am having her levels taken to check on how she is processing her food
also her urine is sticky and she drinks a good deal of water, we will
checking her for diabetes.

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Messages in this topic (5)
12a. Cutting up whole turkeys
Posted by: "jenvandecar" jenvandecar@hotmail.com jenvandecar
Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:11 am (PST)
Hi. I was just looking through all the sales on Turkeys that are going
on right now. I was wondering how difficult it is to cut up a turkey
into at least quarters. Are the bones easy to get through? Do I need
any special tools? I don't feel comfortable handing out a whole 20lb
bird. Any help / advice you have would be great. Thanks.

Jennifer

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Messages in this topic (2)
12b. Re: Cutting up whole turkeys
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:23 am (PST)
Hi, Jennifer!
Heavy duty kitchen shears will do the job.

For the most part, you won't be cutting through bone, you'll be cutting at
the joint where there are tendons and soft cartilage. It doesn't have to be
a pretty job, either, just cut where its easiest.
Links to some helpful info on cutting up poultry;

two part video;

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1423960175334068846&q=cutting+up+chicken&total=47&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=8

http://tinyurl.com/28g7p7

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1991087829865577153&q=cutting+up+chicken&total=47&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=9

http://tinyurl.com/26gkmv**

* *

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/140211*

*message # 140211*

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Nov 15, 2007 2:09 PM, jenvandecar <jenvandecar@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi. I was just looking through all the sales on Turkeys that are going
> on right now. I was wondering how difficult it is to cut up a turkey
> into at least quarters. Are the bones easy to get through? Do I need
> any special tools? I don't feel comfortable handing out a whole 20lb
> bird. Any help / advice you have would be great. Thanks.
>
> Jennifer
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (2)
13. good price or not?
Posted by: "hunterblu123" ksap@fuse.net hunterblu123
Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:03 pm (PST)
I'm getting everything lined up to get started feeding raw. There is a
local turkey plant down the road from me were I can get turkey necks
from they are $.60 a pound and comes in a 30# box is this a good deal?
And if this is my main source of bone how much would they need to eat
let say for my 90# male?

Alicia

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Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9.1. Re: Whole raw feeders
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:36 pm ((PST))

"costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> While wolves may well go in through the underbelly, because of its
> thinner skin and relative ease of access, they do not notably go for
> the gut and intestines. <snip> I believe somewhere along
> the line Dr. Mech made a comment that undereducated observers tend to
> confuse the "stomach" with the "belly".

You know, while I was writing my response I was struggling with trying
to find a succinct way to point out that the underbelly is just the
easiest access route, not necessarily the prime real estate. I ended
up tripping over my words so I just let it be. Thanks for making the
important distinction.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (28)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Complicated meals and furred animals
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:44 pm ((PST))

Yes, lots of people get whole rabbits with fur as in with head, tail,
feet, everything. Some dogs love fur on, some can't stand it. Some
love rabbit, some generally detest it. If you haven't fed rabbit yet
I would get a skinned one first. If Snowy likes it, you can get a
fur on one, preferably with the belly slit open.

Don't assume Snowy wouldn't like it, it may be her favorite thing.
And as far as picking it up later, it's something that you will get
used to in time. If you drop a tea towel over it before you touch it
it helps a lot.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, shefy gupta <shefy7@...> wrote:
>
> i have a question about these fur on rabbits. is it just like a
fully intact rabbit that's just dead and frozen when you get it?
meaning it still has it's head, eyes, hands, feet...?
>
> i want to give snowy one but i'm pretty sure he won't eat it and
i know i won't have the guts to pick it back up...

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: Dehydrated liver versus fresh
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:48 pm ((PST))

I guess it depends on how many treats they get. I wouldn't think that
you run the risk of overdoing liver just based on treats.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Anna Labriola" <taggartgalt@...>
wrote:

> Question: Should I cut back on fresh liver if I'm using dehydrated
> liver for training treats? I'm trying to use small bits, but I'm
> concerned about overdosing.

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12.1. Re: Chicken Backs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:04 pm ((PST))

Alexandra de Guzman <degoonacoon@...> wrote:
>
> Hi- I buy backs very inexpensively. And they love them!!
*****
That your dogs "love" chicken backs--or anything else--is often not
relevant to the value of the food they "love". My dogs loved kibble.
My dogs loved the cheap and nasty kibble as much as they loved the
expensive and politically correct kibble.

While there's no question that chicken backs are healthier than any
kibble anywhere, they still are terribly bony (or, conversely, missing
most of their meat). They are not set up to deliver optimal nutrition,
regardless of how fond your dogs are of them.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (45)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

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