[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12278

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Stunned
From: Tina Berry
1b. Re: Stunned
From: Scott Baker
1c. Re: Stunned
From: Barbara Knight
1d. Re: Stunned
From: costrowski75
1e. Re: Stunned
From: Scott Baker

2a. im new
From: pfs.freedom
2b. Re: im new
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

3a. Re: 7 week puppy with diarrhea
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

4a. Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
From: steph.sorensen

5a. E coli recall - should I keep or toss recalled beef ribs ?
From: cesar valdez
5b. ADMIN/Vaccines, wasRe:E coli recall - should I keep or toss recalled
From: costrowski75

6a. "CONGO"
From: MORGAN LEWIS
6b. ADMIN/Re: "CONGO"
From: costrowski75

7.1. Re: New to list
From: aliciamyan
7.2. Re: New to list
From: Joni
7.3. Re: New to list
From: Yasuko herron

8a. Re: Deer bones
From: costrowski75
8b. Re: Deer bones
From: Joni

9.1. Re: Liver
From: costrowski75

10.1. Re: Feeding Pork
From: Yasuko herron

11a. Re: problems on raw food
From: Nora Lenz
11b. Re: problems on raw food
From: Howard Salob
11c. Re: problems on raw food
From: costrowski75
11d. Re: problems on raw food
From: costrowski75

12. puppy constipated
From: vickies_28

Messages
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1a. Re: Stunned
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:53 am ((PST))

"Vets are usually all "raw is too much protein", but this one thinks that
raw is too little protein! Hey, points for novelty, anyway."

They must learn this in their whole 4 hours of animal nutrition courses in
vet school. Put on by none other then SD.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (11)
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1b. Re: Stunned
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

a bit off topic but we cant really say he has to be fed a minimum of 2lbs.
amount fed is based on weight yes, but also on activity level. The 2% thing
is a starting point, nothing more. You adjust the amount as needed, either
up or down.

On Nov 14, 2007 2:31 PM, <Anntiga@aol.com> wrote:

> Reily should be getting a minimum of 2 pounds of raw meat and bones a
> day.
> Dogs are supposed to be fed two percent (.02) to three percent (.03) of
> the
> their ideal adult body weight.
>
> .02 times 97 equals 1.94. .03 times 97 equals 2.91. Reily should be
> getting 1.94 to 2.91 pounds of RMBs a day.
>
> Remember that Reily should be getting 80% raw meat (organ meats not
> included), 10% raw bone covered in raw meat, and 10% organ meats like
> liver.
>
> My vets are anti raw also. They worry that Norman, my 54 pound Portuguese
> Water dog (PWD) is not getting enough carbohydrates.
>
> We just agree to disagree about raw feeding.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Ann
> Norman (PWD)
> San Francisco Peninsula, CA
>

--
Scott

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Messages in this topic (11)
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1c. Re: Stunned
Posted by: "Barbara Knight" rbmc1231937@yahoo.com rbmc1231937
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:30 pm ((PST))

Reily is maintaining his some what overweight. 90 lb be better for him.That is on the low side for his size .,But with his bilateral knee dysplasias it is better if he were on the skinny side. I was feeding him a pound and a half, and he was gaining. figure that. I wonder , just to add more eggs and hart (low fat) to his diet to bring up the protein in his food . And hir ,I was worried that his all meat and bone diet was to hi .. I can use some help to twig his diet. I was stunned that he was to be low on protein. His fur is thick and shiny Barb&Reily

----- Original Message ----
From: mmc2315 <m.chelap@sbcglobal.net>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:29:46 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Stunned

"rbmc1231937" wrote:

> but because he is97 lb, and
> not active I am feeding one Pound a day.

What is his ideal weight? Is he losing weight, gaining, or maintaining?

Michelle

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Messages in this topic (11)
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1d. Re: Stunned
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:59 pm ((PST))

>
> a bit off topic but we cant really say he has to be fed a minimum of
2lbs.
> amount fed is based on weight yes, but also on activity level. The
2% thing
> is a starting point, nothing more. You adjust the amount as needed,
either
> up or down.
*****
This is not off topic. This is the purpose (one of the many) of the
rawfeeding list--to help the rawfeeder optimize the diet. What is off
topic/off the wall is the vet who is confusing blood protein with
dietary protein.

As wonderful Sandee pointed out.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (11)
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1e. Re: Stunned
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:15 pm ((PST))

Well said Chris :)

On Nov 14, 2007 6:59 PM, costrowski75 <Chriso75@aol.com> wrote:

> >
> > a bit off topic but we cant really say he has to be fed a minimum of
> 2lbs.
> > amount fed is based on weight yes, but also on activity level. The
> 2% thing
> > is a starting point, nothing more. You adjust the amount as needed,
> either
> > up or down.
> *****
> This is not off topic. This is the purpose (one of the many) of the
> rawfeeding list--to help the rawfeeder optimize the diet. What is off
> topic/off the wall is the vet who is confusing blood protein with
> dietary protein.
>
> As wonderful Sandee pointed out.
> Chris O
>
> __._
>

--
Scott

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Messages in this topic (11)
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2a. im new
Posted by: "pfs.freedom" staylor@chjinc.com pfs.freedom
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:53 am ((PST))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!

Hi everyone. Im new to raw feeding and will be getting a chihuahua
puppy next month. he will be 10 weeks old when I get him. the breeder
is feeding him "puppy food" sadly. Im trying to get educated on what is
good to feed a pup that small. Plus my local grocery store dosent carry
any special kinds of bones. just what you can get in the packages ie.
chicken wings/legs, beef and pork ribs. should I just stick to chicken
for now? I read somewhere on here you shouldnt use the ground meet but
let them eat the whole animal parts. Suggestions for my new little guy
would be appreciated. thanks!

Messages in this topic (2)
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2b. Re: im new
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

Hello newbie, whatever your name may be,:)
I have had giant breed dogs all along, but got my little pomchi when my Aunt passed and was freekin, worried about what in the world would I do for her.... like you I couldn't figure it out, don't know why, I'm relatively smart, somewhat educated, and then the wonderful people here helped me out, and it was so simple I wanted to kick myself.:)
Think small, like game hens, small whole chickens, cut up, into the right size meals, and even going further, prey model, rabit, mice, and so on, can be found everywhere. Go online join some local groups that do large buys and find ground rabit, emu, and such, with the bones in the ground up meat already, that makes it nice. Tripe is great, they love it, and it's very nutritious. And don't forget organ meats, and fish too, just go small. My little pomchi is such a carnivore, she loves chewing bones, and stops when she can't finish but guards it from the bigs danes, she's so funny too:)
On bones, for chewing and teeth cleaning, you can take ribs, and give him one or two with the meat still on them, and let him at them, and any raw meaty bone, that you have from any butcher, or that you find under a hunk of meat, will work that your dog can wrap his little mouth around. I find ribs are great since our pomchi can eat the bone too, and gets all the nutrients from it as well. But emu ribs are great too, and pigs feet, small ones work well.
You'll get it, and it's fun too!
Congrats on the puppy, it'll be so fun for you.
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: 7 week puppy with diarrhea
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:22 pm ((PST))

wings and necks, are too boney, that could be the problem, not enough meat at all, try just some boneless meat for several days, necks and wings are way too boney, not nearly enough meat, did I say NOT ENOUGH MEAT, :)
Try some boneless thighs, breasts, and ground chicken is fine, just make it all meat for a few days, if not longer to see if that helps, and tell the vet, the diet shouldn't be the problem, as the diet is not new to the dog, as far as the vet is concerned, make him work for his money, do the sample, and see what comes of it, probably nothing, probably too much bone, hopefully it is that simple.
And please stop the deworming, once should do it, too many chemicals. Poor thing. Give it a rest, and just do the meaty chicken.
And when you go back to chicken with bones, try the whole chicken, but cut it into pieces the puppy can handle, that way you have the meat to bone ratio down a little better, bone should only be about 10% of the meals, so necks, in my opinion, are a waste of money, but if your dog likes them, maybe have them for recreation, not nutrition. And the meals will work themselves out thru out the week when you do the whole chickens, with the bones, the meat, and with the whole chickens, they come with the little organs too, so you get your organs for the week too:)
Just a thought, let us know what the vet says.
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: What Am I Doing Wrong?
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

I have only been feeding my girls raw for about 3 and a half months
now, but I had an incident of "pudding poops" when I let my pit bull
try some pork for the first time. All I did was switch back to
chicken for another couple of weeks (I fed nothing but chicken for the
first month and a half of their switch from kibble), and that fixed
that problem. I also cut out the organ meat for those couple of weeks
also.

Just keeping it simple by starting out on one protein only and keeping
them on it awhile allows their systems to adjust to the change. I
would definitely go with chicken quarters until she seems to be
stabilized and doing well. Then I would SLOWLY introduce other
proteins into her diet. But if you feed one protein on one day, feed
the same protein for all meals during that day. Switching midday
might be too much for her system at this early stage in the game.

Also keep in mind that her poop will change depending on what she
eats. Stools will be softer and runnier with boneless meals, have
different colors and smells depending on what they're eating, and they
may be downright rank. That isn't necessarily bad; it is just an
effect of eating different kinds of meat.

Just keep at it, keep using the list as a valuable resource, and
you'll be raw feeding like a pro in no time!

-Steph and the girls

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "totaly_his" <totaly_his@...> wrote:

I have always had some chicken w/bones
> with a small amount of beef for her meals, never just a beef meal
yet.
> Hearts.liver and gizzards were added once a week and only 1 or 2
> pieces. I haven't even tried fish, pork, etc. yet. My girl weighs 30
> lbs. and I feed her 2-3 pieces of bonein chicken w/ beef once a day.
I
> will take your suggestion and feed her 1 or 2 pieces of chicken
twice a
> day. Would that be right? Thanks for your help. Jackie
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. E coli recall - should I keep or toss recalled beef ribs ?
Posted by: "cesar valdez" chorizo4662@yahoo.com chorizo4662
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

One quick question. Is it a FACT that when you
rawfeed, you do not need to give the dog any
vaccinations? NONE AT ALL? Not even the rabies shot?
Thanks everyone.

Cesar

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Messages in this topic (8)
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5b. ADMIN/Vaccines, wasRe:E coli recall - should I keep or toss recalled
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:02 pm ((PST))

This is not a subject for this list. Please post all vaccine
questions and answers to RawChat. Thank you.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (8)
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6a. "CONGO"
Posted by: "MORGAN LEWIS" shadowland22000@yahoo.com shadowland22000
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:46 pm ((PST))

For those of you who aren't familiar with this situation; a GSD protecting its master, is under a death sentence, delayed 60 days for appeal thanks to the calls to the NJ Gov. and the Judge. Below is one of the most obsurd statements I have ever heard, thought your comments to Judge and Gov might be a valuable insight, since apparently we are ALL feeding for "aggression". Damn some people who should know better are really stupid. Morgan



But can I just SCREAM at the comment attributed to the
warden:

Johnson (WARDEN)also doesn't buy James' (Owner) claim that his
dogs were bred for obedience. "He fed them raw meat and
dead rabbits," he said. "That puts aggression in
a dog."

Morgan and His Angels
Precious, OFA
Princess, CGC, TDI, GSDCA Health Award

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Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. ADMIN/Re: "CONGO"
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:04 pm ((PST))

This is entirely off topic for the rawfeeding list. Further posts
will be deleted. Thank you.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (2)
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7.1. Re: New to list
Posted by: "aliciamyan" alicia_larson@msn.com aliciamyan
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:47 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "hmize1" <hmize1@...> wrote:
>
> I am curious about the cost of feeding raw foods. We currently
spend
> about $60/month on dry food.

Heather,

I'm new to raw as well (about 2 months) and I started out concerned
about cost. After reading some great tips here I've managed to spend
less than I was on "premium kibble" (if such a thing actually
existed). I keep an ad on craigslist which already has brought in
90lbs of beautiful elk meat and serveral offers that didn't work out
due to timing. Word of mouth through friends has also filled my
freezer - we had a friend's freezers get turned off by contractors
and ruined everything - instead of throwing it out, she gave it to me
(moose, bear, elk, beef, chicken). Another friend's husband had to
clear out his freezer to make way for this year's bird hunting
season. I just made contact with a butcher and purchased 100lbs
of "unwanted" beef parts (heart, liver, tongue) from them for the
cost of wrapping ($.50/lb) and the offer to come back for more.
Thankfully, my grandma is giving me her extra freezer, as our stand
up freezer is full (3/4=dog food & 1/4=people food). The way
I look at it, depending how you acquire your meat, you will either
spend time and save money or spend money and save time - the choice
is yours!

Best of luck,
Alicia

Messages in this topic (95)
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7.2. Re: New to list
Posted by: "Joni" naturalbeautyandnutrition@yahoo.com naturalbeautyandnutrition
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:07 pm ((PST))

I just made contact with a butcher and purchased 100lbs
> of "unwanted" beef parts (heart, liver, tongue) from them for the
> cost of wrapping ($.50/lb) and the offer to come back for more.
> Best of luck,
Alicia

I just called the only butcher in my whole area. He said they can't
sell any of the scraps like organs or anything. He said he didn't
even know if it was legal to sell and that he gets it from farmers.
Something about a contract or gave me the impression that he is not
allowed to sell any of the scraps but has to throw them away.

I never heard of such a thing. I am having a hard time with the money
it is costing me to buy meat. In my area there is not much to choose
from and anything that is natural is so expensive. But I am afraid
that if I feed my animals hormones and antibiotics that are in the
meat they will gain more weight and they may get immune to the
antibiotics so that if they ever do need them they would not have the
effect the antibotics should.

I would like to know the groups thoughts on that. But also most are
saying 10% of the amount you feed should be bone and no more. But my
dog can only have about 4oz a day. That would be such a small amount
of bone that I don't know how to work it out.
I gave her a turkey thigh today with the bone. I cut some of the meat
off to give her tonight. But the thigh bone maybe more then the 10%.
I could use some help with that also.

I might have to try graigs list or whatever it is called. I am just
nerves from some of the stuff I heard about the list. I also am
finding that going to the websites you all have given links to is so
costly to buy with the shipping. I just don't know if I can afford
that. There must be a way to keep the cost down and still feed them
enough meat and different kinds.

Joni

Messages in this topic (95)
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7.3. Re: New to list
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:44 pm ((PST))

>He said they can't sell any of the scraps like organs or anything. He said he didn't
even know if it was legal to sell and that he gets it from farmers.

HI,Joni. I tried to buy Goat from Maine state,and the farmer there told methat i cannot buy Goat tongue for it is illegal to harvest.I did not hearabout other organs though..

All processors the lady tried to ask about tongue answered her "No" to her request;harvesting goat tongue. So,I do not get surprised to hearsuch similarstory in this list.

Afterall, I could not get goat tongue and never will from anywhere i am guessing.

> But also most are saying 10% of the amount you feed should be bone and no more. But my dog can only have about 4oz a day.

Ok, I have a suggestion for you.It may work,it may not work,but remember rawfeeding is balance over time,yeah?

so,you do not have to feed bone all the time and also,some dogs do better with 20% bone intake and some is ok with 10%.It depends.

However,if you stick to 10% bone intake,how about doing this method??

4ozx4days=16oz which is1lb sharp,right?

If you wanted to feed roughly 10% bone,you can feed 1.6oz of bone every 4 days and rest is boneless 14.4oz.

Usually,1 chicken feet weigh about 1.5oz so, 1 chicken feet every 4 days if you understand.

It does not have to be exact amount of number so,you can bump up the bone to 2oz and 14oz of boneless meat for 4 days time.

and if yourdog had poo prob without any bone during 4 days time,then,you can feed every 2 days. 4ozx2days=8oz(half pound)

So,about 1oz of bone in every 2 days. and rest is boneless.

you can adjust that over-time.

if you can buy items in bulk,then coop isanotherway to get meat cheaper.

and,don't forget now is turkey time and quite cheap on Turkey (I usually see 39 cents per pound for turkey)and,I found Fowl with $1.30/lb and it was 6lb bird.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (95)
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8a. Re: Deer bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:41 pm ((PST))

"naturalbeautyandnutrition" <naturalbeautyandnutrition@...> wrote:
>
>I
> can't remember the site name for sure, but this women said to use
10%
> organ meat, but only of that meat and do not mix your meat with a
> different organ. Plus 10% veggies and fruit and gave a list of
just
> what they can and can not have.
*****
I don't know who this person may be (although if you were to mention
the name I might be familiar with it) but a species appropriate diet
is not one of her concerns, clearly. There are worse things by far
than "mixing" proteins; fruits and veggies taking up valuable menu
space are two of them.

What a dog can have is virtually any meat protein and virtually any
body part. The things a good menu SHOULD NOT dwell on are
vegetation, plant-based oils, cooked food and of course processed
foodlike products. Whether a dog simply CANNOT have any of these is
stretching it a bit: most anything remotely edible can be eaten by a
dog. The "cannot's" are pretty much identified by the individual
dog's needs.

I already lost
> one dog to cancer
*****
I have lost two, probably three dogs to cancer, and probably one
cat. Raw diets cannot fix everything. Raw diets alone will fix
even less. Cancer is a pestilence born of many more things than a
crappy diet.

I just don't want
> her to get hurt on the bones
*****
I doubt there's anyone on this list who would intentionally direct
you to options that will hurt your dog. Regardless of shape, dogs
is dogs. And dogs is wolves. You can find a species appropriate
diet that works for your dog. End of story.

But were I live there
> isn't a whole lot. I can get the hen, but I have no idea were to
get
> quail.
*****
Where do you live?

Can anyone point me to a website or where I can buy this.
*****
You could Google "processed quail" or "whole quail" and let us know
what you find out. Almost all the links that people post were found
by someone at some point by Googling a product. I buy processed
quail from a local meatwholesaler, at several Asian markets, and at
least two supermarkets. What varies is the price.

You could also join CarnivoreFeed-Supplier and post your needs
there. Be sure you put your location in the subject line!

There was a
> site that had tiny baby chicks 1 to 3 days old frozen and I
thought
> about that for my cats. Maybe warm them on a heating pad until
they
> are body temp then feed it to them whole.
*****
Just let them sit until they reach room temp. No need to hasten the
warming process. Planning ahead is all it takes.

> I tried chicken with them but they won't eat the bones.
*****
Chicken bones aren't wild bird and mouse bones. I start off by
smashing the bones (my new kitten--theoretically three months but I
think he's younger--put away a smashed chicken neck last night and
this morning did immediate and irrevocable damage to a smashed half
quail), then gradually introduce wholer and tougher bones as jaw
strength and competency grow. My four year old cat--rawfed for all
but her first three months on this moral coil--is murder on chicken
wings and legs, but will usually leave the long bone uneaten
(although she eats both ends). She's had time and experience and
your cats can get there, too.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
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8b. Re: Deer bones
Posted by: "Joni" naturalbeautyandnutrition@yahoo.com naturalbeautyandnutrition
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:19 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
>

> I don't know who this person may be (although if you were to
mention
> the name I might be familiar with it)

Shirley's Wellness Cafe I think is the one I found years ago. But not
for sure, it just looked like the one I had learned about the raw
diet from, and her name rang a bell. If this is the one, she has
changed a lot of stuff since then. But the same message for the most
part is still there.
I am raw to this diet thing for the most part lol (no pun intended)

> I doubt there's anyone on this list who would intentionally direct
> you to options that will hurt your dog.

I know that for sure, that is why I ask here for advice. I really do
trust everyone here. We all want the same thing, healthy animals.

> *****
> Where do you live?
I live in WI, not far from Turtle Lake. But I only have a couple
stores I can buy from. I don't know of anyone around here that would
have what I am looking for and a price I can afford.

> *****
> You could Google "processed quail" or "whole quail" and let us know

I have been looking and found a few sites. But there price is high
and shipping is so much it is so hard to come up with that kind of
money. But another problem is I don't want the bird head etc. I just
want it cut up like a chicken you get in the store with all the
extras included.

> You could also join CarnivoreFeed-Supplier and post your needs
> there. Be sure you put your location in the subject line!

I am going to look into that. Thanks so much for that info. I will
try anything at least once and see what happends.

> Chicken bones aren't wild bird and mouse bones. I start off by
> smashing the bones (my new kitten--theoretically three months but I
> think he's younger--put away a smashed chicken neck last night and
> this morning did immediate and irrevocable damage to a smashed half
> quail), then gradually introduce wholer and tougher bones as jaw
> strength and competency grow. My four year old cat--rawfed for all
> but her first three months on this moral coil--is murder on chicken
> wings and legs, but will usually leave the long bone uneaten
> (although she eats both ends). She's had time and experience and
> your cats can get there, too.
> Chris O

This info is helpful Chris. I never thought of that. Because your
right they eat the mice and birds they catch with no problems.

I am learning allot on the forum. And will try to do all the things I
am learning as best I can.

Thanks again,
Joni

Messages in this topic (12)
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9.1. Re: Liver
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:50 pm ((PST))

"Penny (Nickles) Parker" <loverladymaggiemae@...> wrote:
>
> I'm Wondering if it is a breed thing.
******
There's little more to a breed than a breeder's efforts. Inside, dogs
is dogs.

Perhaps the way you care for your Chi has taught it to expect, nay--
demand--special treatment? Have you tried liver from other critters?
Chris O

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10.1. Re: Feeding Pork
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:15 pm ((PST))

>Obviously, the Boxer is still growing. Currently weighs about 60lbs. Should i be feeding it the"regular" 3% of its weight or should i be feeding a bit more since its still growing and gradually increase as its weight increases?

Hi,Ceasar.If I remember right,puppy gets fed 10% of adult estimated weight and fed 3 times orso throughout the day.

and for adult dog,they gets fed 2-3% of ideal weight 1-2 times a day.

but % is just astarting guideline so,it changes depending on activity level of each indivisual dog.

My dog is 2 year old and,I switched her diet about 6 months ago,and I did not feed puppy feeding so,I may have remembered wrong info.Hopefully,someone who actually fed puppy could chime in.

> Also, should i let it tear apart its own meat or should i cut into 1/4lb pieces?

But Boxer is60lb now right? My dog is 34lb,and getting 10oz roughly per day with 2% daily intake,but boxer getting 4oz meat per meal????

It is not right...

Even if 60lb was ideal weight,boxer weigh 60lb(if adult) should be fed 1.8lb daily..with 3% intake.

This boxer is still growing,you writing here,so,ideal weight must be more than 60lb andthat means,this dog should gets fed more than 1.8lb per day.

Suppose,60lb was ideal weight of adult dog,here,and suppose this one should get fed 1.8lb here. Now,if you feed 2 times a day feeding,you can feed 1lb per meal uncut and let your dog work out on food.1/4lb meal seems way too little.I do not think you need to cut into 1inch cube or anything when you feed. Let yourdog work on food.

Only when you feed new protin source, it could be like little bit of newprotin meat,andmostly old protin meat,and gradually work out to 1lb of new protin meat to be fed per meal for example,and in that case,when you just start feeding new meat,then,that piece could be smaller and, dog would either swallow whole due small pieces or crunch crunch swallow.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (42)
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11a. Re: problems on raw food
Posted by: "Nora Lenz" nmlenz@speakeasy.net rawnora
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:36 pm ((PST))

Hi Mike,
I just wanted to comment a bit more on the vomiting of yellow bile,
which my dog used to do regularly, even after being raw fed for many
years. I desperately sought advice from veteran raw feeders and all I
was ever told was that I needed to feed more often. I finally figured
out the problem on my own, and resolved it, after much thought and
research. Bile's function in the body is to break down fats, and when
a dog is over-fed fats, the body is forced to produce more of it than
it normally would. When a dog anticipates a meal, bile is secreted in
preparation for digestion. It enters the stomach, where it would
normally mix with food. When there is no food present, bile irritates
the stomach lining and the body's response is to get rid of it hastily
via vomiting. The answer isn ot to keep food in the stomach so the
bile always has something to do, but to get the dog on a low-fat diet
so that the body will stop producing so much bile. My dog used to
vomit bile almost everyday and it probably took a year or more on a
low fat diet before it stopped completely, but now he *never* vomits
bile. I had to cut WAY back on his fat consumption, to the point of
feeding very low fat meats -- quail, venison, game hens, all trimmed.
All of the other symptoms he used to experience have gone away too,
so I think fat is responsible for a lot of problems that dogs
experience on the raw diet.

Best wishes,
Nora
UltimateK-9Health@yahoogroups.com

Messages in this topic (8)
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11b. Re: problems on raw food
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:48 pm ((PST))

Dear Nora,

Well said! I am a chiropractor and you could not of said it more appropriately. You gave the science and the raw feeding rule is 10% fat- no more.

Sincerely,

Howard

Nora Lenz <nmlenz@speakeasy.net> wrote:
Hi Mike,
I just wanted to comment a bit more on the vomiting of yellow bile,
which my dog used to do regularly, even after being raw fed for many
years. I desperately sought advice from veteran raw feeders and all I
was ever told was that I needed to feed more often. I finally figured
out the problem on my own, and resolved it, after much thought and
research. Bile's function in the body is to break down fats, and when
a dog is over-fed fats, the body is forced to produce more of it than
it normally would. When a dog anticipates a meal, bile is secreted in
preparation for digestion. It enters the stomach, where it would
normally mix with food. When there is no food present, bile irritates
the stomach lining and the body's response is to get rid of it hastily
via vomiting. The answer isn ot to keep food in the stomach so the
bile always has something to do, but to get the dog on a low-fat diet
so that the body will stop producing so much bile. My dog used to
vomit bile almost everyday and it probably took a year or more on a
low fat diet before it stopped completely, but now he *never* vomits
bile. I had to cut WAY back on his fat consumption, to the point of
feeding very low fat meats -- quail, venison, game hens, all trimmed.
All of the other symptoms he used to experience have gone away too,
so I think fat is responsible for a lot of problems that dogs
experience on the raw diet.

Best wishes,
Nora
UltimateK-9Health@yahoogroups.com

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11c. Re: problems on raw food
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:57 pm ((PST))

"Nora Lenz" <nmlenz@...> wrote:
>The answer isn ot to keep food in the stomach so the
> bile always has something to do, but to get the dog on a low-fat diet
> so that the body will stop producing so much bile.
*****
I would argue that a healthy dog can indeed consume quite a bit of
fat. The dog has two and only two bricks in its nutritional pyramid:
protein and fat. It would be a nutritional mistake to limit a dog's
intake to a "low fat" diet.

If a dog consistently has bile problems that are not otherwise related
to the clock, I'd say it's time to suss out what else may be going
on. Fat in and of itself is not the bad guy with bile, just as fat in
and of itself is not responsible for pancreatitis. Fat in and of
itself isn't even responsible for excess weight.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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11d. Re: problems on raw food
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:00 pm ((PST))

Howard Salob <itiskismet1968@...> wrote:
>the raw feeding rule is 10% fat- no more.
*****
Huh?
Who says?
As far as I know, there is no specific designation for fat. There is
10% organ meat of which half can be liver; there is 10%-l5% edible
bone; there is 75%-80% meat which includes fat, skin, fur, hair and
connective tissue as well as flesh: nothing about 10% fat.

Might you please furnish a link or two?
Thanks.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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12. puppy constipated
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:19 pm ((PST))

Hi everybody
I have an 8 mo old puppy on raw for about 3 months. Now, he is
constipated, hasn't gottten any poo for 2 days straight. I didn't feed
him any bone for the past 5 days at all. lately been beef and liver.
He doesn't seem to be sick or upset or anything. What do I do? Should
I worry? I gave him yogurt today in the morning - still nothing.Liver
which is supposed to produce loser stools -= nothing.
Any advice?

Thank you
Vickie

Messages in this topic (1)
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