[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12276

There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Deer bones
From: naturalbeautyandnutrition
1b. Re: Deer bones
From: Sandee Lee
1c. Re: Deer bones
From: naturalbeautyandnutrition
1d. Re: Deer bones
From: amvilppu
1e. Re: Deer bones
From: costrowski75
1f. Re: Deer bones
From: naturalbeautyandnutrition
1g. Re: Deer bones
From: naturalbeautyandnutrition

2a. Re: Too much Organ
From: Kevin Brown
2b. Re: Too much Organ
From: MORGAN LEWIS
2c. Re: Too much Organ
From: Yasuko herron

3a. Re: Vomiting Fish
From: Michelle Grabert

4. first day with the new pup!
From: ben

5. Dehydrated liver versus fresh
From: Anna Labriola

6a. Re: Feeding chicken
From: Bearhair

7a. Re: different proteins
From: carnesbill

8a. Re: Feeding Chihuahuas
From: Denise Strother

9a. Re: Complicated meals and furred animals
From: shefy gupta

10a. problems on raw food
From: mbrown33333
10b. Re: problems on raw food
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
10c. Re: problems on raw food
From: sltahoek9s

Messages
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1a. Re: Deer bones
Posted by: "naturalbeautyandnutrition" naturalbeautyandnutrition@yahoo.com naturalbeautyandnutrition
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:20 pm ((PST))

The only bone i tend not to give them is
> the thigh bone,
> x Tracey

Tracey, I have a question. I never get deer meat. But I am just
starting out my dog on bones other then beef. And the beef was just
here and there. I have been feeding a raw diet for a while. But was
afraid to give her bones. So far I have been giving her chicken wings.
It takes her all day to eat it, but is having no problems.

I thought I would try some turkey tomorrow. But all I have is the thigh
with bone. Will this be to hard on her to eat? Someone said in another
post that the joint of the thigh bone is to hard for them. I am not
sure if I should try and cut a part of the bone off or just give her
the whole thing.

I need to know this tonight or by morning if I can because I will be
giving her this in the morning.
Thanks,
Joni

Messages in this topic (10)
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1b. Re: Deer bones
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:39 pm ((PST))

Joni,

A turkey thigh would be far better than a chicken wing which is far too bony
and too small for most dogs.

But what size/age of dog are you feeding that takes all day to eat a chicken
wing? What exactly have you been feeding?

A turkey thigh bone shouldn't be too hard for most dogs. I wouldn't cut
it...if she can't eat it all, just take it away.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "naturalbeautyandnutrition" <naturalbeautyandnutrition@yahoo.com>

Tracey, I have a question. I never get deer meat. But I am just
starting out my dog on bones other then beef. And the beef was just
here and there. I have been feeding a raw diet for a while. But was
afraid to give her bones. So far I have been giving her chicken wings.
It takes her all day to eat it, but is having no problems.

I thought I would try some turkey tomorrow. But all I have is the thigh
with bone. Will this be to hard on her to eat? Someone said in another
post that the joint of the thigh bone is to hard for them. I am not
sure if I should try and cut a part of the bone off or just give her
the whole thing.

Messages in this topic (10)
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1c. Re: Deer bones
Posted by: "naturalbeautyandnutrition" naturalbeautyandnutrition@yahoo.com naturalbeautyandnutrition
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:40 pm ((PST))

Joni,
> But what size/age of dog are you feeding that takes all day to eat
a
chicken
> wing? What exactly have you been feeding?
> Sandee & the Dane Gang

Sandee, she is 5 years old and a shitzu poo. She is a little over
weight, about 15lbs. I thought she looked best at 12lbs. I had been
feeding ground up meat with a small amount of organ meat and veggies
in
it. The last two times I made up her food I put in egg shells that I
dried out and ground up to powder to help her get calcium.

I was feeding her chicken, turkey and beef. All with the organ meat
for
that kind of meat. I never mixed them beef liver went with the beef
etc.

Since I found out about the importance of giving bones and this
group.
I have just started giving her a chicken wing to start out with. Then
at night I give her 2oz of the ground up meat. For 12lbs they said
she
should have about 4oz a day. She does get some scraps off and on. But
right now she is getting into the composting pile outside that has
bread etc that she should not be eating. Until hubby fixes that I am
stuck with her eating grains and junk.

I am still nerves about giving bones, so I started with small ones
because one of the people in the group said their small dog did
better with the small bones.

Joni

Messages in this topic (10)
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1d. Re: Deer bones
Posted by: "amvilppu" amvilppu@hotmail.com amvilppu
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:17 pm ((PST))

she is 5 years old and a shitzu poo. She is a little over
> weight, about 15lbs. I thought she looked best at 12lbs. I had been
> feeding ground up meat with a small amount of organ meat and veggies
> in
> it.

Hi Joni-

I would start giving her some hunks of meat instead of the ground up stuff, and drop the
veggies all together. How long has your girl been eating raw?

Annaliisa, Drew and Boxer pup Laila

Messages in this topic (10)
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1e. Re: Deer bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:59 pm ((PST))

"naturalbeautyandnutrition" <naturalbeautyandnutrition@...> wrote:
I was feeding her chicken, turkey and beef. All with the organ meat
> for
> that kind of meat. I never mixed them beef liver went with the beef
> etc.
*****
As I'm sure you know now from your reading, you should feed whole
meats as often as possible. I'm not sure if you know, however, that
you do not need to feed strictly along species lines. You can feed
chicken liver with beef meat; you can feed beef liver with meaty
chicken bones; you can feed beef heart with chicken; you can feed
chicken with pork. It's all good.

> I am still nerves about giving bones, so I started with small ones
> because one of the people in the group said their small dog did
> better with the small bones.
*****
Chicken wings do not necessarily deliver small bones, even though a
wing is indeed a small body part. Chicken ribs (feed a section of a
rib-in chicken breast, skinned or not as you choose) are small bones
and are probably easier to eat than wing bones. Plus, you can adjust
up or down the amount of meat you feed, since it's just a matter of
cutting a bigger or smaller piece of chicken breast.

You might also consider whole dressed quail, which weigh in at
approximately four ounces per. For my 10lb cat, half a quail is a
jim dandy meal.

Additionally, although cornish game hens are no more than younger
chickens and are ridiculously spendy, their bones are excellent for
small dogs, puppies, and cats. A game hen leg quarter though silly
to look at, would be a nice "big" meal for your little dog.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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1f. Re: Deer bones
Posted by: "naturalbeautyandnutrition" naturalbeautyandnutrition@yahoo.com naturalbeautyandnutrition
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:23 pm ((PST))

Chris O,
Thank you for so much info. See I started her off on a raw diet back
in I think 2003. I found a website while I was researching for
healthier eating for myself and found raw food diet for my dog. I
can't remember the site name for sure, but this women said to use 10%
organ meat, but only of that meat and do not mix your meat with a
different organ. Plus 10% veggies and fruit and gave a list of just
what they can and can not have.

I guess I got so trained on what this women said that I am a little
confused now. But I want so badly to do this right. I already lost
one dog to cancer. And after the fact found out the pig ears I was
feeding her and food was the worst on the market. I just don't want
her to get hurt on the bones. So I am like a nerves mother, I know I
need to give this to her but am very nerves.

I want to start getting into different meats. But were I live there
isn't a whole lot. I can get the hen, but I have no idea were to get
quail. Can anyone point me to a website or where I can buy this. I
love it when you put a website link to a place to buy food for my dog.
I am going to buy the Green Tripe and hopfully rabbit. There was a
site that had tiny baby chicks 1 to 3 days old frozen and I thought
about that for my cats. Maybe warm them on a heating pad until they
are body temp then feed it to them whole.

I tried chicken with them but they won't eat the bones. They do catch
mice and birds in the summer and eat all of it. But not when I give
them chicken with the bone. Anyway any help you all can give me I
will appreciate it so much.

Thanks Chris O
Joni

Messages in this topic (10)
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1g. Re: Deer bones
Posted by: "naturalbeautyandnutrition" naturalbeautyandnutrition@yahoo.com naturalbeautyandnutrition
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:34 pm ((PST))

How long has your girl been eating raw?

Annaliisa, Drew and Boxer pup Laila

I started her on raw in 2003. Then got a cat and feed her the same,
until she had babies and more babies. I found I had no way to seprate
the food so I stopped feeding the raw. For that reason but also I just
had to hard a time coming up with enough money to feed that many. So
she was back on dry dog food until this scare that happened with the
dog food. I told my husband no more. I love her to much and will do
what ever it took to go back to raw again.

She had no problem going back on raw at all. The way I was feeding her
in the past by the way I was taught was harder on me. I am looking
forward to just giving her a leg or whatever and not having to try and
cut up the chicken. It was way to hard on my tendon's.

I know I could never handle having a rabbit or whatever with the head
etc. I will have to find a way to get it cut up for me with all the
part of the animal but the head and fur.

Joni

Messages in this topic (10)
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2a. Re: Too much Organ
Posted by: "Kevin Brown" jerseykev@aol.com noblarneyzone
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:44 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer" <kali_moonwolf@...> wrote:
>
> Hi! I was wondering if there's a way to know if I feed too much
organ.
> Im pretty good about mixing it up with chicken, and beef (raw), but I
> scored a couple HUGE beef hearts that I cut up, and don't know how to
> portion it out, so is there a way to know if Im feeding too much
organ?
> -Jennifer (and Tikahni)
>

simple guide is not to exceed 10% of overall portion.
Stick to the 10% bone 10% organ 80% meat and you can not go wrong.

Kevin
guardiansbythesea.com

Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: Too much Organ
Posted by: "MORGAN LEWIS" shadowland22000@yahoo.com shadowland22000
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:39 pm ((PST))

Aren't we mixing two topics here. Organs 10% (liver, kidney), but the heart is considered a muscle and can actually be 80% of diet. Morgan

Kevin Brown <jerseykev@aol.com> wrote: --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer" <kali_moonwolf@...> wrote:
>
> Hi! I was wondering if there's a way to know if I feed too much
organ.
> Im pretty good about mixing it up with chicken, and beef (raw), but I
> scored a couple HUGE beef hearts that I cut up, and don't know how to
> portion it out, so is there a way to know if Im feeding too much
organ?
> -Jennifer (and Tikahni)
>

simple guide is not to exceed 10% of overall portion.
Stick to the 10% bone 10% organ 80% meat and you can not go wrong.

Kevin
guardiansbythesea.com

Morgan and His Angels
Precious, OFA
Princess, CGC, TDI, GSDCA Health Award

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Messages in this topic (6)
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2c. Re: Too much Organ
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:10 pm ((PST))

>Liver is the only organ you can get too much of because if the vitamin A and D.

I agree. When I was reading up about liver andVitamin A a while back on internet(sorry,I just printed out and did not mark it on my favorite site folder so,cannot give siteaddress..),and I readthat bear liver is so concentrated with Vitamin A and one bite can be fatal to Triever,for example.But smidge of liver daily is safe,I read.

Optimum IU for Vitamin A that I read on it was100IU to 200IU per kg body weight as daily intake.

My dog 34lb is roughly 16kg so,she is ok if between 1600IU to 3200IU daily.

Somedays,she gets like 100IU in a day,which is way too low but since Vitamin Ais stored in body so,excess from previous day can be used to conpensate for the shortage on that day,so,I am not worrying too much.

Somedays,she gets 3853IU etc and that number is more than optimum but that is ok,it can be stored for low Vitamin A day. As long as dangerously high Vitamin A amount,I don't worry about it.

I checked this Vitamin Aamount when I was just started rawfeeding and worry about toxic of vitamin A,but I don't check it anymore since I found out that for my dog,it is hard to be overdose with Vitamin A with my feeding ways. Unless I add items that is high in vitamin A like sweetpotato;I thought that 1 oz of sweet potato had 6000IU or closer to that number.

I am not feeding cod liver oil or not feeding vegetables as main,so, I don't think I overdose my dog.

My dog gets beef liver/kidney,pork liver/kidney,and chicken liver per week;total 3oz per week.This is because I alternate poultry hearts and tripe (I can feed as tripe meal but,I decided to use as side dish) etc.

She hates pork liver fed as is but she eats with raw egg. She does not mind texture but I think the smell isoffending her for pork liver..

yassy

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Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: Vomiting Fish
Posted by: "Michelle Grabert" chalienme@yahoo.com chalienme
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:10 pm ((PST))

OH DUH...thanks,,. michelle

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com> wrote: >what is FBO>?

Fish Body Oil.

That is good one to add to meal to add up omega 3,and it is commonly made from oil from sardine,herring,anchovi etc.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (6)
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4. first day with the new pup!
Posted by: "ben" ben1721@yahoo.com ben1721
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:12 pm ((PST))

Hi everyone! My husband and I picked up our 8 1/2 week old
Newfoundland pup today and have successfully fed him his first raw
meal! At first he wasn't quite sure what the chicken leg quarter was,
but after sprinkling a little crumbled freeze-dried liver on it, he
dove right in. We have a few questions though.

Would it be best to feed him 3 or 4 times/day? We plan to stick with
chicken only for at least the first week, and then to gradually
introduce other protein sources. I've noticed that many people mention
feeding beef heart as a source of meaty meat. We can get pork heart
for about .20/lb less than the cost of beef heart... is one superior
to the other? or is it OK to go for the pork?

Well, that's all the questions I can think of at the moment, but I'm
sure there will be more to come.

Thanks!
Rachel, Ben, & Moose

Messages in this topic (1)
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5. Dehydrated liver versus fresh
Posted by: "Anna Labriola" taggartgalt@yahoo.com taggartgalt
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:22 pm ((PST))

Hello, everyone.

Question: Should I cut back on fresh liver if I'm using dehydrated
liver for training treats? I'm trying to use small bits, but I'm
concerned about overdosing.

Thanks,
Anna and Khan

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: Feeding chicken
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:43 pm ((PST))

Jane Boswell wrote:

>If anyone has information on feeding chicken
>and its risks, I would be interested to know more.

Here's an interesting article:
>http://www.k9snaturally.com/chickenarticle.htm

Lora
Evanston

Messages in this topic (9)
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7a. Re: different proteins
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:44 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "krystal_brr" <rkbarr@...> wrote:
>
> I understand the concept of introducing a new protein gradually, but
> what if you introduce a protein but then can't get it again for
> like 6- 9 months?

I don't think that is a big deal. Once your dog can handle 3 or 4
protein sources, adding another isn't special. Like Chris said, feed
what you got when you got it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: Feeding Chihuahuas
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:55 pm ((PST))

Hi Estella,
I have a 5lb female and a 5lb male, I often have my son's girlfriend's
Chi who is about 7lbs. These guys eat chicken (all of it), pork, beef,
lamb, goat, rabbit, squirrel and whatever else I round up. I don't
smash any bones and I don't feed ground meat. They eat all chicken
bones and some squirrel, rabbit, pork, lamb and goat bones. It just
depends on how big/old the animals were. Your dogs jaw muscles may
need strengthening. The only way you are gonna do that is to quit
smashing and grinding their food. Try a whole chicken or chicken
breasts and backs. The small rib bones and such are easier to start on
than the bigger bones. Just give them plenty of time to eat and try to
do it themselves. The act of ripping meat off of the bones will help
them to get stronger. I had a 4lb foster Chi with a severe overbite
that ate just like these guys eat with no problems. Stop babying your
Chi's and let them learn to be the house-wolves they are. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "starcos"<sistergoldenhair3034@...>
wrote:
Hi everyone,
Chihuahua owners, need some ideas on what meat and bones you are
feeding your chis. I am feeding chicken necks, wings, turkey but
have to smash the bones a little besides the organ meats and some of
the ground up meats. Have some other suggestions? By the way, I love
this group and am very excited about your responses!
Estella

Messages in this topic (4)
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9a. Re: Complicated meals and furred animals
Posted by: "shefy gupta" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:55 pm ((PST))

i have a question about these fur on rabbits. is it just like a fully intact rabbit that's just dead and frozen when you get it? meaning it still has it's head, eyes, hands, feet...?

i want to give snowy one but i'm pretty sure he won't eat it and i know i won't have the guts to pick it back up...

i might have to find a good friend who can come over for feeding times :)

shefy and snowy

.

If you are considering feeding fur on rabbits, get just one or two
to try out first. My dogs won't eat rabbits with fur unless they
caught it or the cats caught it and they can steal it from the
cats. :) They seem to not know what to do with fur-on bought
rabbits.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.
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10a. problems on raw food
Posted by: "mbrown33333" mbrown33333@yahoo.co.uk mbrown33333
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:59 pm ((PST))

started my staffy ruby on raw 8 days ago and after a few days on
chicken she went of her food and started eating grass and later that
day she went for a toilet and a sloppy mess exploded out of her back
end and twice more after about 30 mins it happened again. did not feed
her for 24 hrs and started her on chicken mince for a day then back on
to quarters of chicken and last night she had a turkey neck and this
morning she had messed in the laundry where she sleeps at night and
then was sick with a yellow fluid when she was in the kitchen which is
not like her as she has never messed at night before.
Do i keep her off food for another 24hrs and any idear as to what to
feed her with when i start again as she was not like this on kibble
but i dont want to go back down that road again.

thanks mike

Messages in this topic (3)
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10b. Re: problems on raw food
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:06 am ((PST))

Mike,
Sounds like she got into something she shouldn't have. Or maybe too much bone from the chicken. Are you doing whole chickens? Bone is supposed to only be about 10% of the diet, 10% organs, and the rest meat, maybe you could try some plain boneless chicken, without bones, for a couple of days and see if that makes a difference, it should if that was the problem. If it was something that she got into that she shouldn't have, then it may have to run it's course, no pun intended. And some time will tell on that one, but holding food, usually just aggrevates the problem and makes them want grass more, which can make them sick and tummy upset, so feeding helps it move along just a little faster than starving, IMHO.
Let us know, but I'm sure some others will help out with some better opinions, give them time, it's late, and they respond better in the day time.
Stay the course, just chicken until you have a great reason not too, this will work out, it always does, you'll see.
It could maybe be a bug too, some seacure might help, you can find it at some pet stores, and add it to the food, a scoop with the food, settles the tummy until you can wait it out. It's a little natural remedy.
Keep us posted.
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (3)
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10c. Re: problems on raw food
Posted by: "sltahoek9s" crazy4k9@aol.com sltahoek9s
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:06 am ((PST))

Hi Mike,
I'm a newbie too. My two dogs have been on raw now for about 2 weeks. My 1 year old lab
has been eating half a chicken each day. She did great first 3 days then started getting
messy diarrhea (once in the back of my car). I kept at it and gave more frequent bathroom
outings. A couple of nights she needed to go out mid night. Now she seems to be settling
into it. She does seem to urinate a little more, but no more diarrhea for the last 3 days and
no vomiting. My 4 year old german shepherd I started on pork since I already knew he likely
has a poultry sensitivity. No diarrhea from him but a couple vomits of yellow bile with bone
(that has since stopped). Maybe you should try a different starter protein. Most people only
start with chicken cause it's fairly cheap and easy to find. You may be able to get her going
on a different protein and eventually add chicken back to the diet. Just a thought, but I'm
certainly no expert. Good luck and hang in there!

-Tammy C.-

Messages in this topic (3)
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All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

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