[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12305

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Are deer bones OK?
From: katkellm
1b. Re: Are deer bones OK?
From: Yasuko herron
1c. Re: Are deer bones OK?
From: sfed57

2a. Re: What next?
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: What next?
From: skittles888@aol.com

3a. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
From: costrowski75
3b. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
From: h h

4a. Re: Bad Breath
From: carnesbill
4b. Re: Bad Breath
From: vickies_28
4c. Re: Bad Breath
From: vickies_28
4d. Re: Bad Breath
From: Sandee Lee

5a. New to Turkey Feeding
From: tobyfogle
5b. Re: New to Turkey Feeding
From: Yasuko herron

6a. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
From: Belinda van de Loo
6b. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
From: mrbob02140
6c. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
From: mrbob02140

7. Here is HOW to Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
From: Anntiga@aol.com

8a. Re: certain meats cause panting
From: delcaste

9a. Whole turkey for gorge meal?
From: K. Gordon Crawford
9b. Re: Whole turkey for gorge meal?
From: Casey Post
9c. Re: Whole turkey for gorge meal?
From: K. Gordon Crawford

10a. only eats with people
From: hiideel
10b. Re: only eats with people
From: Shelly

11a. Re: Rawfeeding and UTI
From: marjo roth

12. Re: only eats with people- its bonding time :-)
From: Michelle R

Messages
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1a. Re: Are deer bones OK?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:11 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sfed57" <sfed57@...> wrote:
>
He also
> gave me the ribs with hardly no meat on them. I was wondering if these
> bones are ok for the dogs to chew on, or if they are like beef bones
> and will wreck their teeth.

Hi Shawna,
IMO, they are fine to feed and are not wreck bones. They are a good
crunchy chew that can be used to add bone to some hunks of all meat
meals or as a good keep 'em busy for a while chew toy. KathyM

Messages in this topic (6)
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1b. Re: Are deer bones OK?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:51 am ((PST))

> He also gave me the ribs with hardly no meat on them. I was wondering if
>these bones are ok for the dogs to chew on, or if they are like beef bones
> and will wreck their teeth. The neck is a bit of a meal but the ribs
> would just be for something to chew on for entertainment.


Hi. I do feed Elk;big deer (correct?),and I cannot find Neck but I can find ribs so,I feed to my dog corgi 34lb.

I feed such bony parts with added boneless meat. So,I feed Elk rib along with boneless Elk meat.

She usually consume everything but,sometimes,there are thicker side of bone and,she sometimes leave such pieces and give up for trade;chicken feet.

I have no prob with teeth for Elk rib.It is easier bone to crack than beef rib bones.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (6)
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1c. Re: Are deer bones OK?
Posted by: "sfed57" sfed57@yahoo.ca sfed57
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:52 am ((PST))

Thanks for all the replies! I think I will try to feed the ribs and
just add them to very meaty meal like a nice beef roast (the grocery
store here often has them in the freezer burn section for really
cheap!). I will try to separate the neck into two pieces as I dont
think my two girls will like to share!

Thanks again, Shawna

Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. Re: What next?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:38 am ((PST))

"swayzepetsitting" <skittles888@...> wrote:
>
> Happy Thanksgiving! My border collie has been on raw for a week
and 2
> days now. She is currently eating bone in, skin on chicken breasts
> and backs. I feed her with my 3 cats 3X a day.
*****
How old is she?

> I am not sure what to add next.
*****
Whatever you got, really. What have you got to offer? Pork is
good. If you're doing turkey today, cut off some raw meat and feed
that. Or buy her her own turkey and feed through it little by
little. Beef heart (or pork heart) is a good red meat to try.

I really want to have her on 2
> feedings a day, but I don't want the increased food per meal to make
> her sick.
*****
She's not going to be sick, unless she's been sick and I've forgotten
the details. Loose stools most often result from feeding too much,
and loose stools do not mean "sick". They mean you over-estimated
your dog's digestive ability and next time you will feed less.

You can minimize the opportunity for loose stools by gradually
phasing out the middle meal: over a week incrementally increase the
AM and PM meals while you are reducing the midday meal--a bit here a
bit there--til there is no more midday meal. If it takes longer than
a week to reshuffle the deck, that's fine.

However! I recommend you do not move to two squares a day AND try a
new meat at the same time! Stick with what's been working, get that
menu switched to two meals, THEN worry about adding variety. One
thing at a time.

As far
> as the actual meals, I was thinking of keeping one meal either
breast
> or back and then the other could be 1/2 of a chicken quarter (I'm
> pretty sure that's about 1/2 a lb and she needs almost a lb a day to
> get down to her ideal weight). Does this sound alright
*****
IMO once you get her solidly on two meals a day, you should make one
of them not chicken and preferably on some days neither meal should
be chicken. And since bones in all the meals--day after day--is a
lot more bone than your border collie needs, I also suggest you
gradually introduce her to boneless meals. One meal with bone,
another without should digestively work out just fine.

When my border collie was eating three meals a day, only one of them
was bone-in. When I moved her to two meals, only one of them was
bone-in...and after she was over that hump, I alternated boneless
days with bone-in days; now at 13 months she is eating once a day and
I continue to alternate boneless meals with bone-in meals.

She only rarely has loose stools and when she does I can invariably
trace the cause back to me pushing the envelope a little too far.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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2b. Re: What next?
Posted by: "skittles888@aol.com" skittles888@aol.com swayzepetsitting
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:17 am ((PST))

>It depends on how old she is. If she is an adult, you should be
>able to go to 2 meals a day now. Otherwise it depends on her age.

Sorry about that...she is nine years old

Swayze and Bean Dip, Sniff, McGuirk, and Finnigan

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Messages in this topic (8)
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3a. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:43 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Affordable Health Insurance
<insuranceplan@...> wrote:
>
> I actually find tripe at Polish Supermarkets all the time
*****
My guess is, Mr. Affordable Health Insurance, that the tripe you find
in Polish markets is cleaned and bleached tripe that, despite its
sometimes grayish color, is not green nor ever will be. You can feed
this processed stuff but there's little reason to.

We Poles may have our dietary quirks but eating raw, unprocessed green
tripe ain't one of them. I promise, hope to spit.
Chris Ostrowski

Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
Posted by: "h h" deedeekinsisme@yahoo.com tarbedyh
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:26 pm ((PST))

I actually find tripe at Polish Supermarkets all the time

~~~~~~~~~~
Yeah, but that's the scaled and bleached to be "safe" tripe. The green tripe will not be found at a supermarket. Compare the pictures here to what you see in the store:
http://rawfeddogs.net/RecipePhoto/31/0

HEIDI MARIE
~with the woofs-Cheyenne and Lazy B~
~and the moggies-Minerva, Shasta, and Misty-Jo~

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Re: Bad Breath
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:51 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@...> wrote:
>
> My 8 mo old puppy has been on raw for almost 4 months now. He had
> developed bad breath over the past month or so.
>

I suspect he is loosing teeth. That will sometimes cause bad breath.
If you are not feeding ground meats, it should go away pretty soon.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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4b. Re: Bad Breath
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:20 pm ((PST))

I am not sure why you would say that, that he is losing his teeth. He
is a puppy! And all his teeth are intact. I checked.
And I am not feeding ground meats at all. I feed chicken cut up in
chunks big enough for one meal bone in(1lbs or just below), beef
chunks no bone(smaller pieces meant for human kebabs or something),
and pork necks or pork chunks. ALso organs such as kidneys, liver,
then turkey necks. I would think that this is all what I am supposed
to feed. I do no have access to any other meats like rabbit, and he
did not like the pork feet.
So what I am I doing wrong? Any other suggestions?

Vickie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@> wrote:
> >
> > My 8 mo old puppy has been on raw for almost 4 months now. He had
> > developed bad breath over the past month or so.
> >
>
> I suspect he is loosing teeth. That will sometimes cause bad
breath.
> If you are not feeding ground meats, it should go away pretty soon.
>
> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>
> Feeding Raw since October 2002
>
> "Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
> Dr. Tom Lonsdale
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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4c. Re: Bad Breath
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:20 pm ((PST))

As a matter of fact, I just realized I forgot to mention, that he also
gets raw eggs with shells and cottage cheese. And ocasionally raw fish
chunks
would any of that cause bad breath?
Vickie
> >
>
> I suspect he is loosing teeth. That will sometimes cause bad
breath.
> If you are not feeding ground meats, it should go away pretty soon.
>
> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>
> Feeding Raw since October 2002
>
> "Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
> Dr. Tom Lonsdale
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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4d. Re: Bad Breath
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:41 pm ((PST))

So he has lost his puppy teeth and has all of the adult teeth in? Are his
gums red?

You may need to feed him some larger items that he has to work at in order
to get the flossing action and dental benefits. Slabs of ribs, large chunks
of meat that he has to sink those teeth in....that type of thing.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "vickies_28" <vickies_28@yahoo.com>

I am not sure why you would say that, that he is losing his teeth. He
is a puppy! And all his teeth are intact. I checked.
And I am not feeding ground meats at all. I feed chicken cut up in
chunks big enough for one meal bone in(1lbs or just below), beef
chunks no bone(smaller pieces meant for human kebabs or something),
and pork necks or pork chunks.

Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. New to Turkey Feeding
Posted by: "tobyfogle" eafog@msn.com tobyfogle
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:04 am ((PST))

Happy Thanksgiving. I feed raw to my 80 pound Golden Retriever and 40
pound black lab/chow mix, but I've never fed them anything other than
turkey wings. They are both over a year old. They have their own
turkey (raw of course) this year and I'm ready to cut it in pieces to
freeze. I'm looking for advice on how you cut and freeze pieces. Do I
need to worry about all the small bones in the legs? Are there any
bones they can't have (some of the ribs in the cavity feel pretty
sharp). Thanks for your help. I appreciate this group so much!
Andrea F.

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: New to Turkey Feeding
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:53 am ((PST))

>I'm looking for advice on how you cut and freeze pieces.

Hi,here is how I do for my dog palette the Corgi 34lb.

I get a whole Turkey,get giblet bag out from bird,and I cut turkey neck into half(thatmakes about 3oz each) and,when I feed neck,I add little more boneless meat to her meal.

I cut into half because I do not like to feed entire neck as meal but i like to feed with added meat to it.My dog likes it and crunch down fine so,sheis fine with the length.

now you have a whole bird,I first cut in center makeit to 2 pieces.Then,I weigh and figure about how much cut I need out of the one piece. I do the same with the other one and,I have one with wing attached andI have one little big pieces(half of Turkey leg etc).I do not makeit to exact weigh but rough weigh.

Some big pieces like wing with breast pieces weigh more than palettes wants in one sitting but,in that case,I just lessen next meal a bit andI can adjust so,I do not worry too much about weigh. It is same with leg portion too. Leg is huge but, I cut into half and it may come out more than she normally eats with one meal but I adjust next meal with portion so,even if weigh is bit off,I do not worry.

you have big dog so,I think you do not need much cutting for birds.

My dog can eat any bone in Turkey without any prob. So,your dog would be ok with Turkey bone. How you cut bird isas same as you do for chicken.Just cut into your dog's portion.I do this way for all birds I feed.

Bone may look sharp for human eyes but don't underestimate your dog's ability.your dog will befine.No cutting or crashing would be needed.They can do on their own.

since 34lb dog can eat all bones from Turkey,so can yourdog with no prob!!

My dog will have Goat leg tonight for thanksgiving. it will be so funny picture to my dad who has come from Japan andstaying til thisSaturday:-PP

I for thefirst time roast tUrkey.Wish me luck!

Happy thanksgiving!!

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
Posted by: "Belinda van de Loo" auntielindyloo@yahoo.com belindavandeloo
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:16 am ((PST))

I'll vote for us, but what's the link to do so?
Belinda
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mrbob02140" <bob_roth@...> wrote:
>
> Come on people... we are 10,000 strong! If this group is not one of
> the "Best of Yahoo" I'll eat my hat! Chris, Bill and all the other
> regulars that do SO much to support us all deserve the recongition!
Not
> to mention promoting the diet we have all learned is so much better
for
> our beloved pets. If we don't do something to stop the multi-billion
> dollar pet foot industry from brainwashing pet owners into thinking
> Dogs are omnivores, who will?
>
> Bob
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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6b. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
Posted by: "mrbob02140" bob_roth@comcast.net mrbob02140
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:52 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Belinda van de Loo"
<auntielindyloo@...> wrote:
>
> I'll vote for us, but what's the link to do so?
> Belinda

I clicked on the "Best of Y! Groups" to the left of the messages then
clicked on the "Animals and Pets" from that page. Below is a link to it.

Bob

http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/bestofyahoogroups/animals.html

PS. I guess you'll have to cut and paste it into your browser address
bar to use the link.

Messages in this topic (5)
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6c. Re: Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
Posted by: "mrbob02140" bob_roth@comcast.net mrbob02140
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:16 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mrbob02140" <bob_roth@...> wrote:
> I clicked on the "Best of Y! Groups" to the left of the messages then
> clicked on the "Animals and Pets" from that page. Below is a link to
it.
>
> Bob
>
> http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/bestofyahoogroups/animals.html

Sorry, I have to correct myself... the "Nominate your Group" button is
on the bottom right on the "Best Of" page, no need to click on "Animals
and Pets", that just shows other "Best of Animal Groups"

Bob

Messages in this topic (5)
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7. Here is HOW to Nominate this Group for Best of Yahoo!
Posted by: "Anntiga@aol.com" Anntiga@aol.com anntiga
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:52 am ((PST))

Here is what I did to nominate the rawfeeding group for the Best of Yahoo
Groups:

Send an email to _best_of_groups@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:best_of_groups@yahoogroups.com)

In the subject line, put down: Nominating _Rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com) for Best of Yahoo Groups!

In the body of the letter put down: I nominate _Rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com) for the Best of Yahoo Groups!

Sign you email and send it in.

Ann Gaskell
Norman and Angel Scamp
San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA

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8a. Re: certain meats cause panting
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:52 am ((PST))

feed smaller meals, at least until the dog is
> more accustomed to eating larger amounts. Not just with pork though,
> with any meat that causes apparently inappropriate panting.
> Chris O

Yes, when I feed my dog Big Food she pants all night so I am giving her
less. She has to be uncomfortable if she pants all night and paces.
Still learning, though

Silvina

Messages in this topic (8)
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9a. Whole turkey for gorge meal?
Posted by: "K. Gordon Crawford" kgcrawford@gmail.com kgcrawfordesq
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:32 pm ((PST))

I have a 16 lb turkey and I'd like to give it to my 16 mos old 120 lb
bullmastiff and let her go to town. Is this ok? She has been rawfed
since February and used to eat 2.5- 3 lbs per day but was recently cut
down to 1.5 - 2 lb per day, usually in one sitting. She is voracious
and has never been given all that she wants. Is there such thing as
eating too much? I'd like to give it to her till she gives up, then
cut it up for future meals - but what if she just keeps eating?

--
K. Gordon Crawford

Messages in this topic (3)
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9b. Re: Whole turkey for gorge meal?
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:43 pm ((PST))

>I have a 16 lb turkey and I'd like to give it to my 16 mos old 120 lb
> bullmastiff and let her go to town.

I don't like the idea of springing a gorge meal on a dog without some kind
of build up to the event. It's been my experience that dogs who are not
accustomed to gorging can eat themselves into quite the painful tummy ache,
rather than the happy glow of a dog who is used to gorging...

I advise building up to gorge meals gradually.

FWIW.

Casey

Messages in this topic (3)
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9c. Re: Whole turkey for gorge meal?
Posted by: "K. Gordon Crawford" kgcrawford@gmail.com kgcrawfordesq
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:41 pm ((PST))

++++Mod note: pls make sure you sign your messages. The mods get tired of reminding people about basic etiquette, and depending on their time constraints may and have deleted messages and they never make it to the list. We do realise people do forget at times, but let's just think about doing it and making it better for everyone. +++++

Thanks, I stopped her at 3.8 lbs. I think she feels as gorged as I do
today, she came in and went straight to her bed :)

Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. only eats with people
Posted by: "hiideel" hiideel@yahoo.com hiideel
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:32 pm ((PST))

Hi,

We've been feeding our GSD raw for almost 2 years now. We feed him
outside and have never really had a problem with him eating. Depending
on the day/week we feed him chicken, deer, pork and/or fish - we
obviously include organ meat, muscle meat and raw meaty bones
throughout a given week.
More recently he has been refusing to eat unless we go outside and
stand there with him. We have been putting him out for about 15-20
minutes alone with his food - we then go out and pick it up if he
hasn't eaten. It is at this time when he decides to eat. He doesn't
take it and run away with it - so he is not food aggressive. He lets
us take it, but my husband and I don't want him to go without food,
especially if he begins to eat it at this time. The longest he has
gone without eating is 1-2 days and then we cave in and stand outside
with him!

Has anyone else dealt with this? Should we just keep taking it away
afer 15-20 minutes if he doesn't eat? What is the longest time a dog
will not eat (without it being unhealthy for the dog?)

Thanks for any help,
Heidi

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: only eats with people
Posted by: "Shelly" StuartLittle@comcast.net stuartjeanlittle
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:04 pm ((PST))

Why not just stand outside with him all the time? We sit outside and watch
our dogs eat every day while we have our morning coffee. We really enjoy
watching them enjoy their food.

Shelly

On Thursday 22 November 2007 15:03, hiideel wrote:
Hi,
.......
More recently he has been refusing to eat unless we go outside and
stand there with him. ......
....The longest he has gone without eating is 1-2 days and then we cave in and
stand outside with him!

Thanks for any help,
Heidi

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Re: Rawfeeding and UTI
Posted by: "marjo roth" greytbizz@yahoo.com greytbizz
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:04 pm ((PST))

Hi Casey,

We did not get bloodwork ... only the urinalysis and
cultures (expensive enough).

Nothing new in our lives except the rawfeeding.

We have changed our minds about the stinky chicken in
the fridge and will go back to freezing (small amounts
at a time due to size).

I need to shop weekly for the RMBs ($0.99 lb) and less
frequently for muscle meats ($0.99 - $1.99 lb)/organs
($1.49) etc.

If I find a source that is less than that then I will
invest in a small chest freezer and stock up by buying
in bulk.

Sorry about the delay ... we do not have a computer
... using the one at work (or library).

Marjo

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12. Re: only eats with people- its bonding time :-)
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:20 pm ((PST))

At my house, my kids and I go out on the porch every morning for their breakfast. Most just eat whatever whereever, but I still have a few who prefer to be delicately fed. Reminds me of that movie "Overboard" with Goldie Hawn, where the rich mother in law talks about properly "placing the food on her dogs tongue" HA too funny! :-) Me and mine are still new to raw, so to get them going I dont mind a few hand feedings. I consider it bonding time. We are working up to actually eating, tearing, larger peices of meat and bone...one day at a time for us.
Just got back from the store, found a nice little 12 pound turkey for my kids.....they can eat for days on this thing! :-)

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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