[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12314

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. goose
From: cidny61

2a. Re: I am scared silly
From: miensasis

3.1. Re: Introduction
From: cactususan

4a. Re: Support when making the switch?
From: cypressbunny
4b. Re: Support when making the switch?
From: miensasis
4c. Re: Support when making the switch?
From: Sarah
4d. Re: Support when making the switch?
From: carnesbill
4e. Re: Support when making the switch?
From: v_rod_or

5a. Re: When if ever supplements?
From: Sai Simonson
5b. Re: When if ever supplements?
From: Sandee Lee

6.1. Supplements
From: Sai Simonson
6.2. Re: Supplements
From: Sandee Lee

7a. Re: Bullmastiff 5 yrs and Boerboel pup
From: Marcella Burgess

8a. Re: another newbie
From: carnesbill
8b. Re: another newbie
From: Sandee Lee
8c. Re: another newbie
From: mozookpr

9a. Re: Puppy having bad diarrhea
From: spricketysprock
9b. Re: Puppy having bad diarrhea
From: carnesbill

10a. Re: Loose Stool issues
From: katkellm
10b. Re: Loose Stool issues
From: carnesbill

11a. It's working
From: Mary Tinder
11b. Re: It's working
From: jennifer_hell

12a. Excessive urinating
From: eu_azi
12b. Re: Excessive urinating
From: Laura Atkinson

13a. Newbie intro
From: gudrun032150

Messages
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1a. goose
Posted by: "cidny61" blujack@verizon.net cidny61
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:39 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, h h <deedeekinsisme@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone ever feed goose? A friend gave me two very fresh geese
(he just shot them) and after a great deal of work to get the feathers
off I put them in freezer bags~
>

Hi,
I have a friend that gives me any of last years geese when the new
hunting season is about to start. My 175 lb Rott and 50 lb Pitt love
it! I love it too because all I do is thaw and toss. The person that
shoots the geese has already plucked them! It is all dark meat and the
dogs act just like they are getting beef. If it was still feathered I
would try feeding it in the yard and just see what happens. I also
have parrots that may be a little upset if they saw a fully feathered
bird being eaten by the dogs.
Cindy A

Messages in this topic (10)
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2a. Re: I am scared silly
Posted by: "miensasis" kpmnlm@patmedia.net miensasis
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:03 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mozookpr" <mozookpr@...> wrote:
>
> I have stayed up half the night every night for the past week
> researching how to do this right, and think I know enough to at
> least make a start. There is just one problem.
>
> I am terrified.

Hello there....

I can totally understand where you are at right now. Others here are
correct...there is a disconnect between your intellect and your
emotions. It was like this for me, too. I researched and read and was
convinced raw was the way to go but I was scared to death to take the
plunge. The day I laid down that first chicken leg quarter, I watched
as my dogs tried to make sense of this new food. I found I had to cut
little piece of flesh off and feed it to them so they knew it was
food. They gobbled it and then they picked up the quarter in their
mouths, trying to get somewhere with it. But they were obviously not
biting down hard enough. It sounded like a person with no teeth,
gumming their food...LOL. But then they got it....CRUNCH! It
literally held my breath from afar as I watched them chew and crunch.
In no time that quarter was gone. And then I exhaled. And then the
worry came again....Did they chew it enough??? It seemed to happen so
fast! Would it get stuck in their intestinal tract??? Would they be
able to digest it??? Of course it was all fine!

It got better after that....PROMISE! It's been over 2 months now and
I've grown to love the sound of that crunch. I love to watch them
figure out their food. I love to watch them meet the challenge. I
love feeding them raw!!! I've used the info I gleaned in my reading
and have gained experience. I feed big pieces/parts and I've not had a
single choking incident. My biggest mistake was rushing variety too
soon. After one good week on chicken, I added eggs and beef. One of
my wheatens had some explosive diarrhea during week two, but I backed
up and took it slow and now at over 2 months they are able to eat just
about anything. I found that once they got used to 3 or 4 different
types of proteins, everything else that's new is a piece of cake.

So my advice is to JUST DO IT! Give yourself permission to be nervous,
and take small steps, one day at a time. Start with chicken, chicken,
chicken for a long while. When they are used to it, you can choose
bits of the next protein you want to introduce and add them to your
chicken base. Work up to larger meals of that new protein and when
that's good, go back to chicken and add the next new one.

And best of all...remember you are not doing this alone. You have a
whole list of people here to guide you when you are stuck, or nervous,
or need a little reassurance.

Good luck!

Nancy

Messages in this topic (7)
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3.1. Re: Introduction
Posted by: "cactususan" desperatelyseekingsusan@cox.net cactususan
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:04 am ((PST))

>large animal meat upsets them.

If they're morally opposed, they're in quite a pickle.

Rudy, my 13 year-old, 9# min-pin is missing 8 front teeth due to a
life-time ki**le diet. He has been a Raw Dog for just over a month.

His first meal was a turkey neck. He lit into it as if he was
starving. I feed him the whole neck, but remove it when I
guesstimate that he's had his 1.5 ounce meal. That way it's not
artificially cut.

On Thanksgiving day, I plunked down a whole, thawed 14# turkey for:
MerLyn, 30# female Aussie cattle dog,
Guenevere, 40# female Akita-Aussie shepherd mix,
Buster, my son's 60# male pit mix,
and of course Rudy, and stood back.

I left the neck & guts in position (unnatural though it was) to see
the results.

Buster & MerLyn were the alpha-diners. Buster aimed for the guts.
When he walked away, MerLyn took up his position at the front of the
bird. Buster returned & asserted dominance. When I decided they'd
had enough, I put them inside & watched Guen & Rudy dine.

Today is the 4th day for the turkey. MerLyn & Rudy still play tug-
of-war with it twice a day. He tugs & growls, she ignores him.

Guen in NOT food driven, and seems to be burned out on the turkey.
Oh well.

I approach feeding the dogs the same way I raised 3 boys:

They'll eat when they're hungry, and they'll eat what's in front
of them... or wait for the next scheduled meal.

(My young humanoids are 6', 6'4" and 6'4". Didn't stunt their
growth any...)

As a tease, you might sear the meat slightly. The aroma is probably
what brought the first wolves to the fire of early man.

And for goodness sake, don't "hover--" you're the Alpha Dog! You went
hunting & brought back this great stuff! Don't let 'em yank your chain!

Susan Fortune
Southern California

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (369)
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4a. Re: Support when making the switch?
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:12 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Michelle R <crested_dog8@...>
wrote:
>
> What bothers me is my trusted family, what should be my primary
source of support, has really let me down.

*** Well, you've turned your back on everything they taught you
about science, nutrition, etc. No doubt they feel that you've
betrayed them and ignored their experience and knowledge and got
sucked into and brainwashed by the raw feeding cult (some truth to
that, probably--most of our brains needed a good washing to get all
the baked on grime cleaned off). They don't want to hear your
replies for two reasons. One, they already know better, and Two, if
it turned out you were right and they were wrong that makes them
look like lifetime idiots.

Because when I try, I am met with skepticism and down right
meanness. This really has surprised me.

*** Nobody likes to be wrong, and some like it even less than others.

> So forgive me fellow listers if I seek emotional support here more
than what might be typical of a newbie, I need you folks more now
than ever!

*** That's what we're here for. No worries.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (7)
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4b. Re: Support when making the switch?
Posted by: "miensasis" kpmnlm@patmedia.net miensasis
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:38 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Michelle R <crested_dog8@...>
wrote:
>
I am wondering what sort of problems you folks faced from family and
friends when switching to raw? I am under a verbal barage of
questions and really ridiculous ass-umations on the part of some
friends and all of my family (except my daughter, lol) I was nearly
assaulted over thanksgiving.
> Now most of these came from my family...I come from a family of dog
folks who are quite knowledgeable, but apparently just as brainwashed
as perhaps I used to be. My family has deep roots in western medicine
and all things traditional.
>

Michelle...

Are we related??? LOL. You're family sounds suspiciously like mine.
I've learned to set boundaries over the years. Here are the lessons
I've learned in dealing with them (and others):

1. I don't have to tell them everything I do.
2. If they ask questions, I am authentic and truthfully answer
their questions, but I don't expect their approval.
3. I don't defend what I do.
4. I don't let them lure me into conversations about what I consider
off-boundary topics. It's really hard for someone to have a one-
way conversation...lol.

If your family is like mine, you could give them all the evidence on
the benefits of raw, debunk all their myths, and they still wouldn't
buy it. All you'd end up doing by trying to open their minds is put
yourself in the position where they feel they have the right to
criticize your choices. I'm sorry you had to spend your Thanksgiving
in the hot seat!!

Remember....it's YOUR life, your choices. You can set boundaries and
still love your family. Accept them for who they are, limitations
and all. Bottom line is they love you, too, and while they may not
like it at first, they will come to respect the boundaries you
lovingly, but firmly set with them.

Hope that helps!

Nancy

Messages in this topic (7)
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4c. Re: Support when making the switch?
Posted by: "Sarah" hecarte@hotmail.com sarah_uk_2000_2001
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:24 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Michelle R <crested_dog8@...> wrote:
>
> Hello, Michelle here. I have a question and sorry if this is
offtopic. I am wondering what sort of problems you folks faced from
family and friends when switching to raw?

Hi Michelle, I am very new to raw as well (this is my 10th day)
although I've been researching it for several weeks. Fortunately my
family and partner have been very supportive (apart from a few
questions about the safety of chicken bones from my grandparents). As
far as they are concerned, it's my dog and I can feed him how I see fit.

I have mentioned the prey model diet to a few dog walkers who I meet
regularly. There hasn't been huge objections, but they all have
said 'Oh, I could never feed my dog anything raw!'. One man
said 'Well, it's just how they would eat in the wild isn't it?' I was
so pleased when he said this.

My advice is, stick to your guns. It's your dog and you know you are
doing the best thing by feeding raw. If people don't want to listen to
your reasons then they are not worth explaining to. Good luch for the
future.

Sarah Jones (UK)

Messages in this topic (7)
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4d. Re: Support when making the switch?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:52 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Michelle R <crested_dog8@...> wrote:
>
> Hello, Michelle here. I have a question and sorry if this
> is offtopic. I am wondering what sort of problems you folks
> faced from family and friends when switching to raw?

Look at the bright side. Since your kitchen is going to be so nasty
with all those germs and e-coli and salmonella and stuff, the family
won't want you to cook for them anymore. :) :) :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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4e. Re: Support when making the switch?
Posted by: "v_rod_or" v_rod_or@yahoo.com v_rod_or
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:28 pm ((PST))

> I am under a verbal barage of questions and really ridiculous
ass-umations on the part of some friends and all of my family...

Welcome to the club! You have lots of company here. When I decided
to start feeding Spike raw food, I received feedback ranging from
"irresponsible" to "trendy" to "stupid" from people I cared about,
including friends, family, and our vet.

Since then, I've read a small library of books on the subject. I have
located a new vet who is knowledgeable about and supportive of raw
feeding, and I've worked my way through the archives and kept up with
the new posts here. I've talked to breeders and owners and meat
producers. I've done my homework about commercial dog food, too.

Most important, I've seen the changes in Spike. He acts more
energetic, his skin has cleared up and his coat is shinier, he looks
healthier and more fit than he ever has, and he is eager to eat, where
he was indifferent towards kibble.

People will disagree with many of the decisions you make in life.
They will tell you how you should vote, how you should raise your
children, how you should worship, and even how you should feed your
dog. Ultimately, it's your life and the choices are yours to make.

Raw feeding isn't as easy or as cheap a choice as opening a bag of
kibble. It isn't as popular, either. All I can say is this: For me
and my dog, the choice has been a worthwhile one.

Rod & Spike
Eugene, OR

Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. Re: When if ever supplements?
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:38 am ((PST))

Sandee,
Thanks for the reminder about adding variety.
Poultry is relatively cheap (if you mean spending 4 times the amount of
my food). Finding less expensive sources is my quest. Thus far lots of
driving has been involved and I must admit I am spoiled by having Winco,
Costco, Safeway, etc. close....like within a mile.
Sai

==================
From: Sandee
When feeding a prey model there is generally not a need for supplements, but
that would mean you need to add some variety and red meat to your diet! :))
If you look at the natural diet of a carnivore, it consists mainly of large
ungulates....red meat, 80% meat, only about 10% edible bone and 10% organs.

Sounds like your dogs have adjusted to poultry just fine so time to begin
adding in variety in body parts, protein sources and lots more meat....pork,
beef, venison, fish, goat, lamb....whatever you can get your hands on!
--

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: When if ever supplements?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:50 am ((PST))

Sai,

I don't have a Winco but I'm sure I've heard about some good deals/sales
there...I do have Safeway and that's where I get most of my pork and
chicken. They seem to have sales quite regularly.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Sai Simonson" <saiczarina@comcast.net>
> Thanks for the reminder about adding variety.
> Poultry is relatively cheap (if you mean spending 4 times the amount of
> my food). Finding less expensive sources is my quest. Thus far lots of
> driving has been involved and I must admit I am spoiled by having Winco,
> Costco, Safeway, etc. close....like within a mile.

Messages in this topic (2)
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6.1. Supplements
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:38 am ((PST))

Oh never mind!!!
Sai now repeating, dogs are not omnivores, but carnivores. They do not
need additives if they get variety of meats and bones and some organs.

I think I have it!!
but but but, don't they need probiotics? This supplement thing is dying
hard.

--
*~~ SaiCzarina*

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6.2. Re: Supplements
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:53 am ((PST))

Nope...they have all the friendly bacteria and enzymes they require unless
of course there has been an acute illness with prolonged diarrhea,
antibiotic use, etc. Their bodies really are designed to handle the food
they are designed to eat without our intervention!!!! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Sai Simonson" <saiczarina@comcast.net>
> Sai now repeating, dogs are not omnivores, but carnivores. They do not
> need additives if they get variety of meats and bones and some organs.
>
> I think I have it!!
> but but but, don't they need probiotics? This supplement thing is dying
> hard.

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7a. Re: Bullmastiff 5 yrs and Boerboel pup
Posted by: "Marcella Burgess" proudfootkennels@sympatico.ca marciongrass
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:38 am ((PST))

Hi Sallie,

We feed all of our boerboels raw and when we made the switch over it was a problem for only one of them as that one was an import and not initially raised on raw, but we took it slowly and steadily and now .... he has definitely made the switch over to raw with enthusiasm!
Good Luck with everything and drop us a line sometime... I would love to hear how everything is going!

Sincerely,
Marcella Burgess
Proudfoot Kennels

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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8a. Re: another newbie
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:38 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "peggyparker_4"
<peggyparker_4@...> wrote:
>
> Yesterday I brought home a 3 month old Toy Fox Terrier who
> has been on
> raw, and the breeder sent me home with a bag of this stuff.

What kind of "stuff" was it.

> Last
> night, the puppy licked at it some but would not eat it,
> even though I
> offered it to him at least 3 different times.

It's pretty common for puppies away from mom and siblings for the
first time go off food for a day or 2. They are pretty upset,
scared, and overall stressed. They are in a new world with no idea
what is going on.

> Late last night I opened a bag of Nutri kibble the pet store
> had given me, and he went at it as if he had never eaten in
> his life.

I suppose he was attracted by the used restaurant grease and other
stuff put in kibble to make it smell good to dogs. It is an
entirely species inappropriate food for a dog.

> My question is, maybe he is too young to do the raw, and
> the kibble will be okay until he gets a little older, at
> which time I could attempt it again. Any thoughts on
> this procedure?

No, no, no, a thousands times no. He is not too young for raw.
Many many dogs are weaned to raw and it sounds like this pup was
also. There is no way on the face of the earth that a highly
processed grain based cereal is the ideal food for even the youngest
of carnivores. Give the kibble away and forget it.

Begin researching raw feeding immediately. A few informative web
sites are:
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm (My web page)
http://rawfeddogs.net/

--- be sure and check the recipes page.
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html
http://www.rawmeatybones.com

Go back and read pasts posts on this list. There is a world of
information here. Do your puppy a huge favor and don't feed him
another bite of that garbage.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (17)
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8b. Re: another newbie
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:20 pm ((PST))

Peggy,

If what she sent home with you was in a bag, sounds like it is some sort of
premade mix? I would get that little guy some real food! :) Here are some
puppy feeding/weaning messages from the archives that may be of some help to
you....
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135757
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135847
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/137170
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/145223

Kibble is never OK and you can't start raw too young. What better time to
feed an appropriate diet so their little bodies can grow up strong and
healthy?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "peggyparker_4" <peggyparker_4@yahoo.com>
Yesterday I brought home a 3 month old Toy Fox Terrier who has been on
raw, and the breeder sent me home with a bag of this stuff. Last
night, the puppy licked at it some but would not eat it, even though I
offered it to him at least 3 different times. Late last night I opened
a bag of Nutri kibble the pet store had given me, and he went at it as
if he had never eaten in his life. Finally, with a full tummy, the pup
slept happily the entire night without a yap in his new cage. My
question is, maybe he is too young to do the raw, and the kibble will
be okay until he gets a little older, at which time I could attempt it
again. Any thoughts on this procedure? Thanks.

Messages in this topic (17)
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8c. Re: another newbie
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:48 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Dona" <unschool@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, I am new here. I have a new (to us) dog, Australian Shepherd,
four years old-ish....I just butchered a calf today (rather the butcher
came and did it), so I have a tongue, a heart, a tail, and some tripe
(tripe will take 3 days or so to fully clean)...

> Thanks
>
> Dona

Dona,

I am new to the list, too. Still in the researching phase, in fact,
and looking for a freezer to stock up on food for my two dogs and six
cats. (I know that raw feeding is the right thing to do, but want to
be both informed and prepared when I start, however, that is another
post...)

Anyway, before you clean the tripe, do read up on green tripe. It is,
as far as I am able to tell, pretty much "as is" and is supposed to be
an awesome raw food. Check out www.greentripe.com for more information.

My apologies if you already knew this, but I was so envious when I saw
the great stuff you have from butchering that I wanted to share!

Good luck with your new friend!~

Wendy

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9a. Re: Puppy having bad diarrhea
Posted by: "spricketysprock" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

Jen,
I'm pretty sure that feeding LESS food, and MORE bone is the way to
firm up stools. Being that this is a puppy, you can't deprive him for
too long, so maybe you should try to do a gradual approach either
mixing a little amount in his kibble or just with some plain rice, and
gradually increase the amount over time.

Jess & Toby

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9b. Re: Puppy having bad diarrhea
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jen" <wolfiejack@...> wrote:
>
> I have a 9 week old border collie puppy that I've had for a
> week and a half.

*snip stuff*

> He is having horrible, watery diarrhea. I have only been feeding
> chicken leg quarters or chicken thighs. I divide his meals into
> 3 to 4 feedings per day. I've tried removing the skin, using
> less bone...nothing is helping.

The first thing I worry about with pups this age getting watery
diarrhea is parvo. I would confirm that is not the problem. Next I
would cut back on the volume of his chicken and remove the skin like
you are already doing. I wouldn't decrease the bone percentage.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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10a. Re: Loose Stool issues
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:24 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sylvia Tetzlaff <stetzlaff@...> wrote:
>They both get 5-6 ounces a day, so do I add small pieces of beef or
>other red meat to their daily chicken pieces, and gradually increase
>the amount of beef and decrease the amount of chcken?

Hi Sylvia,
For some reason, brain freeze probably, i couldn't answer your
questions in the order you asked them, so i took the liberty of
scrambling up your questions. This is the exact perfect way to
introduce new proteins. You have forever to feed new and exciting
meals, but for right now slow and steady beats the carefree intro.

> My question is, how much new meat should I add to a tolerated meat
source (in my case, chicken, which they are both doing well on), and
how soon? Will their stools eventually firm up after a meal of just
meaty meat? Or do I follow up a meaty meat meal in the a.m. with a
bone-in meal in the p.m.?

If they did well on chicken for a week, you were ready to move on,
just not the way you moved on. Eventually you will be able to feed
just all meat meals in one day, but that is probably a ways down the
road for you dogs. For now, i would go back to square one. If you
want to, you could remove the skin and the fat from the chicken for a
couple of meals, and if all is well, start leaving the chicken in tact
and feed for about a week again. Then, implement your new intro plan.
You didn't ask, so i don't know how you'll feel, but i'm not a big
fan of beef as a second protein choice. Beef tends to be a richer
protein for some dogs. Also, beef bones are too dense and are not
edible for dogs. How about pork or turkey? Both of them have edible
bones and tend to be easier to digest. Make sure just because you are
mixing up proteins and amounts of meats per meal, that you don't over
feed.
I would keep some bone in at least one meal for awhile. HTH, KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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10b. Re: Loose Stool issues
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:52 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sylvia Tetzlaff <stetzlaff@...>
wrote:
>
> My question is, how much new meat should I add to a
> tolerated meat source (in my case, chicken, which they are
> both doing well on), and how soon?

I usually suggest 2 weeks on chicken only. After that I suggest
adding turkey, not to a meal but alternate meals between turkey and
chicken. I use turkey second because it's not all that different
than chicken. If all is going ok in a week, I suggest adding pork.
Pork is usually easier to digest than beef and in my mind, makes a
good choice for 3rd protein source. I would feed a couple of pork
meals a week and the rest alternated between chicken and turkey.
After a few pork meals with no problems, THEN I suggest beef. Make
the beef meal smaller than the other meals for a while until they ar
digesting it well. After pork is digesting well, fish would be the
next addition. I feed one fish meal a week.

> Will their stools eventually firm up after a meal of just
> meaty meat?

I feed meat only meals 2 or 3 times a week and never noticed any
appreciable difference in stools. I wouldn't feed any meat only
meals until you get to pork(3rd or 4th week).

> Or do I follow up a meaty meat meal in the a.m. with a
> bone-in meal in the p.m.?

I don't feed 2 meat only meals in a row. I'm sure lot of people do.

> My other problem is that both dogs are not very big (one is
> 10.4 lbs, the other is 11.4),

My dogs are Great Danes so someone else will have to help you with
the small dog stuff. :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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11a. It's working
Posted by: "Mary Tinder" mtinder@tinderco.com mmmaryt
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:54 pm ((PST))

I'm one who worried about my dane "wolfing" his chicken in three
chomps, devoured a goat leg in 20 minutes etc.
Just wanted to share that Rumble is no longer going at his food like a
starving dog! I can't remember who told me this would happen but it
has! Now I'm actually taking up leftovers and saving for next time. He
just seems a bit more content? Thanks
Mary T

Messages in this topic (2)
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11b. Re: It's working
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:48 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Tinder" <mtinder@...> wrote:
That's great to hear!

Jennifer with Mandy (who still wolfs down salmon and beef, but slowed
down with chicken, venison and turkey)

> Just wanted to share that Rumble is no longer going at his food like a
> starving dog! I can't remember who told me this would happen but it
> has! Now I'm actually taking up leftovers and saving for next time. He
> just seems a bit more content? Thanks
> Mary T
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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12a. Excessive urinating
Posted by: "eu_azi" dantennispro@gmail.com eu_azi
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:28 pm ((PST))

Hi everybody.
I've been feeding raw for the last 10 years so I'm not "new" at this.
The problem that I have is with my new 8 weeks old gsd female. I got
her about a week ago…kept her for few days on the k she was on at the
breeder. Few days ago I made the switch…no loose stools, she loves it,
and everything is great except she urinates much, much more then
before. More frequently and much more volume. I feed her chicken only,
no skin, very little bone. She doesn't seem to drink more water but she
eliminates much more then before. I never had this problem. Did anybody
encounter this? Any suggestions would be great.
thank you,
dantennispro@gmail.com

Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: Excessive urinating
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:32 pm ((PST))

It's not necessarily a bad thing. Raw food has tons more moisture than
kibble. If she's doing the squat and dribble, with no output, then she may
have a UTI and that'd be the first thing I'd check...otherwise she's just
getting lots of moisture in her meals and her body is dealing with it.

On Nov 25, 2007 1:54 PM, eu_azi <dantennispro@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everybody.
> I've been feeding raw for the last 10 years so I'm not "new" at this.
> The problem that I have is with my new 8 weeks old gsd female. I got
> her about a week ago…kept her for few days on the k she was on at the
> breeder. Few days ago I made the switch…no loose stools, she loves it,
> and everything is great except she urinates much, much more then
> before. More frequently and much more volume. I feed her chicken only,
> no skin, very little bone. She doesn't seem to drink more water but she
> eliminates much more then before. I never had this problem. Did anybody
> encounter this? Any suggestions would be great.
> thank you,
> dantennispro@gmail.com
> --
> Laura A
> Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
> Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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13a. Newbie intro
Posted by: "gudrun032150" gudrun032150@yahoo.com gudrun032150
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:28 pm ((PST))

Hi all
I'm Kathy from northern california. I live with Odie, a year +- few
months old rescue catahoula/hound/??? from the Mendocino County Animal
Care & Control shelter. I also foster dogs who are having a
particularly difficult time in the shelter, or are undergoing
heartworm, etc.

I lost my beloved Dobies to cancer; one this past April (lymphoma) and
one two and a half years ago (Hemangiosarcoma.) Another Dobie was lost
to cardiomyopathy. One guy lived to about 13! And two terrier mutts
lived to 14 & 16!

I am interested in raw feeding, and have contacted a company in
sonoma, Feed This, who have a wonderful product. My vet is a great
holistic doctor, and she is familiar with this company. She thinks raw
is a good diet, and gave me the ok, while also giving me her few
warnings: choking on bones, "raging" diarrhea (very occasionally) and
broken teeth.

I have signed up for a delivery, first one on Dec. 10.
I'M VERY NERVOUS! thought i would peek around and try to find out more
and more.

Kathy & Odie (and foster dog Sammie--kelpie looking for a home.)

Messages in this topic (23)
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