[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12309

There are 11 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Doh. i read the archives!
From: Giselle

2. Red Meats?
From: T Smith

3a. Re: Nutritional changes in Freeze Dried raw food
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

4. S.O.S and venison ribs in NE Michigan
From: johnsonkp200

5.1. Newbie
From: kellyomran
5.2. Re: Newbie
From: bluegracepwd

6a. Kevins recipe page
From: alimaxral

7. Newbie, question about hungry dog.
From: Sarah

8a. goose
From: Rebecca Little
8b. Re: goose
From: Kathie Middlemiss

9.1. Introduction
From: Cathy Richmond

Messages
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1a. Re: Doh. i read the archives!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:24 am ((PST))

Hi, Heather!
NPs, and YQW! ^_^

Its always gratifying when helpful messages keep on informing people.

The info in that message should do the trick.

Looking back over it, I didn't emphasize that the proteins I'd suggested be
mainstays of the diet be very low fat, by feeding leaner meats and also by
trimming visible fat from meats. Rabbit, fish, turkey is great, but chicken
and other meats can be fed too, if you trim fat, and skin sometimes.

Feeding organs, liver, of course, but also kidney, pancreas, thymus, spleen,
etc. is very important, but should be introduced slowly, and in tiny
portions with a meal.

I think that whole prey could be especially beneficial to an IBD/IBS dog, by
providing ALL parts of prey animals - feeding Frankenprey may not be
critical in a 'normal' dog's diet, but it is something I wished I'd been
more proactive in providing for my little IBD dog. I can send you some links
to online sources of small whole prey if you're interested.

Lastly, and this is just my hindsight working overtime,
I-wish-I'd-known-better talking, but my little guy died, not from IBD, but
from a large tumor growing undetected in his liver. It got to a size that
affected his ability to store glycogen, sending his blood sugar through the
roof, and surgery wasn't an option at that point. Just as a warning, *use*
your vet to do what they do best, get tests and x-rays done to rule out
other possible diagnoses or complications.

BUT, don't let him talk diet to you! ; )

HTH
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Nov 23, 2007 8:32 PM, <recyclerat@aol.com> wrote:

> Forgive my hasty email - immediately after hitting send on that one, I
> started reading thru the archives for this group and found a super helpful
> email
> from Giselle to Millie -
>
> just wanted to say sorry for the desperate plea - and thanks, to Giselle
> for
> that very lengthy and help filled email to that other person. I will go to
>
> bed tonight with a plan for tomorrow.
>
> .heather.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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2. Red Meats?
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:15 am ((PST))

Confused as usual :-)
Heart is not considered an organ when feeding but is it considered RED
meat? I know that may sound like a stupid question but I am not sure if i
count it as red meat.
Also, I had asked before but did not see any reply. How much red meat
should be average fed?
I am feeding mostly chicken (still new to the diet) but wanting to introduce
more red meats.
Of course, some of my dogs HATE liver & I forgot what else is considered
organ? I know 5% needs to be liver so we will cross that bridge one dog at
a time :-) I need to know what other organs are out there that I can get.
I think I should start adding a bit of red meats & varieties now.....
So, what are red meat? What % should be red meat?
Thanks,
Trina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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3a. Re: Nutritional changes in Freeze Dried raw food
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:16 am ((PST))

In a message dated 11/24/2007 12:10:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, "Deena"
writes:

I also feed her raw pancreas to keep her diabetes under control.

****
Hi, Deena,

I don't have any knowledge of freeze dried raw food, but I thought this
website regarding diabetes in cats might be of interest and help to you, if you
aren't familiar with it. The vet who has the site is a recognized authority on
the subject and advocates raw feeding.

_http://yourdiabeticcat.com/diet.html_ (http://yourdiabeticcat.com/diet.html)

Lynda

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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4. S.O.S and venison ribs in NE Michigan
Posted by: "johnsonkp200" sunfiretervs@comcast.net johnsonkp200
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:16 am ((PST))

Newbie here, my Tervuren went from k**** to fresh ground chuck (mixed
with a non-grain base) for about 10 days, sometimes with added raw
chicken gizzard/hearts. He took to that like a duck to water, so
yesterday he had his first and only chicken leg quarter. He was a
natural at chewing it, with no ill effects excapt a very small arf next
morning of 2 tiny bits which he ate right away, yum!

Today a hunter gave me both rib sides from a fresh killed white tailed
deer. There appears to be good meat on them (for a deer), but, the
bones feel so fragile and sharp to me (it is a deer, after all). At
this point of his transition, should I set one slab down and let him
have it? Should I freeze it for 24 hrs first (I've heard that about
game/parasites), or should I wait until ? (how long) to give it to him?

Karen in NE Michigan

Messages in this topic (1)
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5.1. Newbie
Posted by: "kellyomran" kellyomran@yahoo.com kellyomran
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:16 am ((PST))

+++Mod note, please don't forget to sign your emails ++++++++

Hi there, I have just been introduced to the raw diet. I havent even
adopted my puppy yet, but am trying to learn as much as I can about
everything dog in the next few months.

I have done a looooot of reading tonight and I think I have the basics
down. I'm so inspired that I am going to buy a meat grinder and make
all the food myself. (Hope I'm not getting in over my head here!)

I wanted to see if anyone out there has any advice on whether or not
it is safe for a small dog (pug or yorkie...I'm still undecided) to
eat raw? I know that they can eat ground meat, but am concerned that
this will not be enough to keep their teeth clean. Can they chew
bones? If so, should I give them bones with meat on it (ie-chicken
thigh) or should I give them ground meat and allow them to chew a bone
for dessert?

Thanks!

Messages in this topic (214)
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5.2. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "bluegracepwd" janea@tpg.com.au bluegracepwd
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:19 am ((PST))

Hello Newbie,

Ok, keep reading. There is absolutely no need for a grinder. Nature
makes the meat fine - there's is little need for you to interfere too
much at all.

Why would it be unsafe for a small dog to eat raw?

Of course they can chew bones, and in fact, they absolutely must chew
bones to get the dental benefits and minimise the risk of periodontal
disease.

Let us know how you get on.

cheers

Jane
www.bluegrace.com

Messages in this topic (214)
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6a. Kevins recipe page
Posted by: "alimaxral" albrooker@bigpond.com alimaxral
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:16 am ((PST))

>to find out what others are feeding, take a look at Kevin's
> recipe page, keep an eye out for sales on beef, pork, lamb, fish,
>various

Hi, I have just started feeding my two dogs raw food 2 days ago
(chicken so far). It does feel a little daunting at first and I keep
looking for the hard bit to understand and make it
complicated.....thanks for posting the link to Kevins recipe page! I
laughed out loud and it really just reinforced for me that it really IS
that simple :) I have an abbatoir nearby and will visit soon to see
what I can scavange. Loved the list of meats...it helps to have it
spelled out for us newbies.

Thanks
Alison

Messages in this topic (12)
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7. Newbie, question about hungry dog.
Posted by: "Sarah" hecarte@hotmail.com sarah_uk_2000_2001
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:16 am ((PST))

Hi, I am very new to raw feeding, just started 9 days ago. I've been
feeding chicken this week to my terrier mix (8.3 kgs in weight) and he
is really enjoying it. I'm giving him 3% of his body weight per day
but he still seems really hungry - he's 'hunting' for food in the house
and keeps going to where I feed him in the kitchen and also sitting in
front of the fridge. I feed him twice a day - once after morning walk,
(about 9am) then after afternoon walk (about 2pm).

Could this be because he's enjoying the raw food so much? I switched
to raw food diet from Arden Grange dry food as he really didn't want to
eat the dry. I read that small dogs should sometimes get 4% of their
body weight - is 8.3kg classed as a small dog?

Also, I was wondering is it ok to get frozen meat from the supermarket
(such as frozen turkey/chicken?). So far I've been buying fresh, then
freezing it in portion sizes.

I bought some chicken liver and gave him a thumb nail sized piece
yesterday. When is it advisable to start feeding liver regularly?

I've been reading this list with interest and have gotten a lot of help
so far.

Regards, Sarah (UK)

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. goose
Posted by: "Rebecca Little" pbgs@delhitel.net canucme278
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:52 am ((PST))

Does anyone ever feed goose? A friend gave me two very fresh geese(he just shot them) and after a great deal of work to get the feathers off I put them in freezer bags for the 10 day wait before I feed them but just wondering if anybody feeds goose and about the bones ect....i know alot of people don't feed turkey(other then necks) d/t the bones being hard is it the same for geese or not?
Rebecca Little
Peakes Brook German Shepherds
http://sites.centralpets.com/mammals/peakesbrookgsd/index.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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8b. Re: goose
Posted by: "Kathie Middlemiss" geekgirl717@gmail.com katjermid
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:37 am ((PST))

Rebecca:

I'm not exactly a raw feeding veteran only having been doing it since
the end of August. But I can tell you that my guys have eaten turkey
with no hesitation, bones and all. They often get ribs and thick chops
as well (pork and beef) and go through those bones like nothing as
well. I have never heard of turkey bones being 'too hard' and as geese
are birds of flight I can only imagine that they would be much easier
for a dog to work through than say pork or beef.

I would feed the goose without hesitation, personally. Lucky you for
having such a generous friend! Lucky pups! :)

Kathie M.

Rebecca Little wrote:
>
> Does anyone ever feed goose? A friend gave me two very fresh geese(he
> just shot them) and after a great deal of work to get the feathers off
> I put them in freezer bags for the 10 day wait before I feed them but
> just wondering if anybody feeds goose and about the bones ect....i
> know alot of people don't feed turkey(other then necks) d/t the bones
> being hard is it the same for geese or not?
> Rebecca Little
>

--

Messages in this topic (6)
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9.1. Introduction
Posted by: "Cathy Richmond" batcathy@sbcglobal.net batcathy2002
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:52 am ((PST))

Hello- my name is Cathy and I am "owned" by 7 Chinese Cresteds. I have
been raw feeding for about 2 years now with trial & error and a few
bumps in the road. I spent the day reading all through the info sent to
me but have a couple questions as I am a bit pc stupid....LOL
Does archives mean the posts listed under links and how do I trim posts?
I have been following the IBS thread as it sounds like my little girl.
My vet has treated her numerous times for diarrea & cramps with stool
samples each time but have never had a diagnose of any thing in
particular. He is neither pro/anti on the raw but has said he feels she
in particular cant handle it. I am sure that in a natural setting she
would have died.....but as she was my first litter & I was not about to
lose her i kept her alive untill she was strong enough to suckle. At 2
yrs she is 11 inches and only 7.9 lbs...up from 6 but about 2 pounds
under....so I am looking for advise to help her. I am always up for
learning and will be grateful to any & all advise. Thankyou in advance.
Cathy

Messages in this topic (359)
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