[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12312

There are 13 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Preparing Quail
From: glamour.cupcakes

2a. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
From: jaygaughan
2b. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
From: jennifer_hell
2c. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
From: Giselle

3a. I am scared silly
From: mozookpr
3b. Re: I am scared silly
From: Erika
3c. Re: I am scared silly
From: judy tallant
3d. Re: I am scared silly
From: katkellm

4a. Re: Bacteria and raw feeding.
From: johkemp

5a. Re: Red Meats?
From: judy tallant

6a. Re: Newbie, question about hungry dog.
From: Sarah

7a. another newbie
From: peggyparker_4

8a. Re: IN FRANCE: need advice
From: Belinda van de Loo

Messages
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1a. Re: Preparing Quail
Posted by: "glamour.cupcakes" glamour.cupcakes@yahoo.com glamour.cupcakes
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:03 am ((PST))

Casey,

Thank you! That makes perfect sense - I'm not much of a meat eater and
am almost clueless when it comes to these things :)

- Kay L.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Casey Post" <mikken@...> wrote:
> Nope - feed away!
>
> Casey

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
Posted by: "jaygaughan" jaygaughan@yahoo.com jaygaughan
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:03 am ((PST))

Thank you very much for your ideas everyone. I was thinking of
dehydrating venison and beef strips also.

I really like the hard boiled eggs Dawn.

TC the whole prey thing might go over well on a farm but it doesn't
at my house. My wife is having a hard enough time with me feeding
him raw I don't want to push it. I gave her material to read but it
isn't computing.
I'll have to look up what a food tube is. Never heard of this
before. I don't use any treats to train. Just praise. This way I
always have it with me and it works if he's hungry or not.
As for any foods from China, not for my dog or my family.
Unfortunately very poor control of any foods especially
processed. .

I picked him up Friday and he's eating, playing for 5 minutes, and
sleeping. 8 weeks and 2 days old. 20lbs. It's only been one day and
he looks like he's growing before my eyes. Wish I could slow his
growing down a little. Dane puppies are so darn cute. It 30 degrees
here in CT. He did a quick leek and befoe I could pick him up he ran
up 12 stairs to my deck we came off of. I was shocked. He's never
even seen a stair before. Very cool. Also no mistakes in the house
as of yet. He goes every time i take him outside.

I have him eating green tripe, chicken, and turkey so far. He will
have a host of meats I'll introduce one at a time. I can pretty much
feed him venison all year with 6 deer tags to start with if I wanted
to. LOL
But I plan on feeding him a large variety or proteins. Next week
I'll start with some fresh Tuna my buddy just caught. I have a 20 lb
pile of trimming after I was done steaking them out for him. Not to
mention lots of fresh Sashimi for me.

Thanks again everyone.

Jay

Messages in this topic (11)
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2b. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:21 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jaygaughan" <jaygaughan@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you very much for your ideas everyone. I was thinking of
> dehydrating venison and beef strips also.
If you're training him based on positive reinforcement, perhaps with
clicker too, you'll need a really big amount of treats when you start
teaching the basics. I'd just use ziploc bags with fresh meat cut into
small pieces.
Dehydrated lung works good too. It's easy to break into the right size
(about the size of the nail of your smallest finger).

Jennifer from Germany

Messages in this topic (11)
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2c. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:22 am ((PST))

Hi, Jay!
Food tube;
http://www.amazon.com/Squeeze-Tubes-2Pk/dp/B000FXZXUO/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1195986063&sr=8-1
*http://tinyurl.com/2v728j

*TC
Giselle*
*
<snip>
>
>
> I'll have to look up what a food tube is. Never heard of this
> before.
>

> <snip>
>
> Thanks again everyone.
>
> Jay
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
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3a. I am scared silly
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:46 am ((PST))

+++++++Mod note: pls sign your emails +++++++++

Okay, I am convinced. Rawfeeding is the way to go. I have asked a
neighbor who hunts to give me his deer and turkey trim, and am
researching other sources of food for my two dogs and six cats. I am
even watching Freecycle for a freezer to stock up on food. I have
overcome my worries that the food all needs to be organic (yes, I
know that would be best, but fresh has to be an improvment over
processed; organic can wait until I can afford to eat it daily
myself!)

I have stayed up half the night every night for the past week
researching how to do this right, and think I know enough to at least
make a start. There is just one problem.

I am terrified.

I have read enough to know that dogs are not any more likely to choke
on an appropriately sized bone than they are on a piece of kibble, a
toy, or a stolen sock. Fine. But these are MY dogs, and I am scared
to death that the one time it happens, it will be when I put down
that first chicken quarter. I want to do it so bad, but I also want
a team of pet paramedics to be there, like lifeguards at a child's
first swimming lesson. Not so worried about my cats, they don't
inhale their food, but my dogs do, and my Pom hacks and coughs
already, with no provocation (vet has found no clear reason for this.)

I am sorry to sound like a neurotic mess, but....has anyone else ever
felt this way before taking the plunge? I have seen pictures of
rawfed dogs; they seem to absolutely glow. I have seen videos of
them really *enjoying* their meals, as opposed to just half-heartedly
picking at kibble all day, and I want that so badly for my pups, but
I am still scared. And feeling like a real wuss for it, too.

I guess I just need a few words of encouragement (gentle ones,
please.)

BTW, would you recommend a breast or a leg quarter as a first meal
for a largish (10 1/2 lb.) 5 yr. old Pomeranian? Or does it matter?
And for a Sheltie puppy, about 4 1/2 - 5 months, 18-19 lbs? I know
the dogs both like raw beef, I got a lb. of stew meat for Foxy's
fifth b-day and between the two of them, they ate it all in two days
(only because I parceled it out as a snack, a bite at a time!) I
know most people start out with chicken, but since I already know
they both like beef, would it be okay to give some along with bony
chicken parts during the first week, or should I focus on serving
larger chunks of a single kind of meaty bone, like a chicken leg
quarter?

Sorry to have rambled, and thanks for your patience (you will be
patient, won't you... ;) ?

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: I am scared silly
Posted by: "Erika" Erika@redangelbordeaux.com redangelbordeaux
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:34 am ((PST))

Hello,

I am only a month into feeding RAW myself and can understand what you are feeling but don't worry. I'd suggest starting on a weekend or at a time when you can take some extra time to teach your dogs to chew, this is the biggest step IMO. I have 6 Bordeaux Mastiffs and I started them on RAW cold tukey and they are doing great. At first I fed them chicken quarters that were only partially thawed and I hand fed them making them chew off pieces while I was holding the leg. This way they all learned to CHEW there food. Now I can feed them something as small as a chicken neck (which they could swallow whole with no problem) and they chew it verry well before swallowing. All dogs are different but this is what I have experienced with my group.

Now I watch them in the yard through the window or do yard work as they eat, but I'm not worried about them anymore. They never chewed there food while on kibble but now they chew every bite! I am sure to approach each dog at least once durring mealtime and pet and praise them to ensure that food agression does not develope. If I notice that one of them is eating faster as I approach I will take the food and hold it for them to eat so that they remember that I am feeding them and not to worry or get agressive with me ;)

Good luck, you will get used to it all!
Erika

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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3c. Re: I am scared silly
Posted by: "judy tallant" judy@tallant.com judyltallant
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:19 am ((PST))

I used to have this concern because I have two food wolfers. But,
having a large pice of meat actually slows them down. They lie down
and chew it. Start with a whole chicken or half, rather than just a
thigh or qtr. Or a big meaty beef bone.

On Nov 25, 2007, at 1:06 AM, mozookpr wrote:

> But these are MY dogs, and I am scared
> to death that the one time it happens, it will be when I put down
> that first chicken quarter. I want to do it so bad, but I also want
> a team of pet paramedics to be there, like lifeguards at a child's
> first swimming lesson. Not so worried about my cats, they don't
> inhale their food, but my dogs do)

Judy Tallant
Snohomish, Wa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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3d. Re: I am scared silly
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:38 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mozookpr" <mozookpr@...> wrote:
>
> +++++++Mod note: pls sign your emails +++++++++
>
>
> Okay, I am convinced. Rawfeeding is the way to go....I am terrified.

Hi,
Maybe intellectually you are convinced, but if you are terrified to
start feeding raw than you are not 100% vested in your choice. So, i
would tell you that your dogs, my dogs, all dogs, are direct
descendants of the grey wolf and as such need to be fed according to
the plan that has allowed wolves to survive for generations. You
can't beat the plan that has allowed wolves to survive despite man's
need to eradicate them. They are reintroduced to an area and they
thrive. You can't do better than looking to Mother Nature for the
perfect plan for that specific design. If eating was dangerous,
wolves would be extinct by now.

>I am sorry to sound like a neurotic mess, but....has anyone else ever
> felt this way before taking the plunge?

I wasn't scared because i had 2 dogs that were having some issues, and
i was convinced that after feeding the most expensive designer kibble
out there that there had to be a better way. I can cross my heart and
swear to tell the truth that it was the best decision, both for
physical and mental health, that i have made for my dogs. I know you
love your dogs, i love mine, too. Since you love them, you will calm
down and grab hold of yourself before you start feeding raw. You, as
the pack leader, can't be nervous when you feed your dogs. Don't ruin
it for them (kind, gentle grandmotherly smile).

> BTW, would you recommend a breast or a leg quarter as a first meal
> for a largish (10 1/2 lb.) 5 yr. old Pomeranian? Or does it matter?
> And for a Sheltie puppy, about 4 1/2 - 5 months, 18-19 lbs? I know
> the dogs both like raw beef, I got a lb. of stew meat for Foxy's
> fifth b-day and between the two of them, they ate it all in two days
> (only because I parceled it out as a snack, a bite at a time!)

I would start with a chicken breast because, of course not all
chickens are created equal, a 10lb dog probably only needs to eat
about 4oz a day and most leg quarters weigh lots more than that.
Breast bones are softer and easier chews for a little dog and a puppy.
Remember to feed you puppy 2% of her estimated ideal ADULT weight,
not what she weighs now. So, if you think she is going to weigh
30lbs, you need to feed her 10oz now. (i don't know why i think that
is what she will weigh, so insert the right weight) Also, i wouldn't
mix beef with the chicken because by adding another variable to the
mix, should you get loose stools or something, its harder to pinpoint
the problem and offer ideas for a fix. I would not, imo, hold their
food while they eat. Hum, this is to relax yourself, smile, talk soft
kind words to yourself, set the food down for your dogs and step back
and let them figure things out for themselves. Remember that they
can't gulp if you are feeding big enough pieces-big determined by the
size of the dog-and you will be doing that. Holding their food tends
to, from my experience, make them feel you want to take their food
away and that their is a competition for the food. That creates
tension which makes them gulp and swallow. Being nervous is ok for a
spell, but to allow fear to determine your future is probably way
counter productive for you and you kitchen wolves. You really can do
this, KathyM

Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Re: Bacteria and raw feeding.
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:22 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> .... While I believe in normal handwashing and cleaning up my
kitchen, etc., the reason we have things like MRSA is because of our
fear of bacteria which has led to overuse and misuse of disinfectants,
antibacterial soaps and antibiotics! ....

For all the people in the US (I'm sure all the Australians have heard
of it) a company called ENJO makes cleaning cloths and fibres that will
clean and disinfect using only water. I have been using them for years
and not only does it save a fortune in cleaning products and lessened
our environmental impact, my son's asthma has reduced!

Jo

Messages in this topic (24)
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5a. Re: Red Meats?
Posted by: "judy tallant" judy@tallant.com judyltallant
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:27 am ((PST))

I get salmon heads, tails, trimmings from my local grocery store fish
counter. Any time they carry whole salmon, people want it trimmed
there. I especially go in when they carry the Copper River Salmon
from Alaska that we get seasonally. It's from colder waters, deeper
in color and has more oil. My goldens love these treats. They
positively quiver when I show them they get salmon heads for dinner.

On Nov 24, 2007, at 10:53 AM, T Smith wrote:

> I still have NOT found any fish to feed my dogs. I do give fish
> capsules
> but would prefer to do the real fish since I don't really know how
> much fish
> oil capsules to feed & dammit i live in the NW I should be able to
> find
> fish!

Judy Tallant
Snohomish, Wa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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6a. Re: Newbie, question about hungry dog.
Posted by: "Sarah" hecarte@hotmail.com sarah_uk_2000_2001
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:19 am ((PST))

Wow! Thanks for that reply Giselle! I'm going to give him a little
more meatymeat today and see how he goes. I;m so pleased that he's
actually enjoying his food now and is even more full of energy
(although I didn't think that was possible!).

Best wishes,
Sarah.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Sarah!
> Short answer, it depends! ^_^
>
> Hmm, 8.3 kgs is um, about 18.30 pounds. I'd definitely consider that
a small
> dog.
> so, 3% of 8.3 kg = 249 grams or 8.78 oz.
> 4% of 8.3 kg = 332 grams or 11.71 oz
> 5% of 8.3 grams = 415 grams or 14.63 oz
>
> You *may be feeding him enough, and he *may just be reacting to the
new raw
> food by feeling he can't get enough of it. Smart dog!! ; )

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7a. another newbie
Posted by: "peggyparker_4" peggyparker_4@yahoo.com peggyparker_4
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:37 am ((PST))

Hi everybody,
I have been part of the K9kidney diet group and several of them with
renal failure dogs were feeding raw, although most of us were
attempting home cooking instead of commercial dog food. Sadly, I
recently lost my 12 year old Westie in spite of my best efforts.
Yesterday I brought home a 3 month old Toy Fox Terrier who has been on
raw, and the breeder sent me home with a bag of this stuff. Last
night, the puppy licked at it some but would not eat it, even though I
offered it to him at least 3 different times. Late last night I opened
a bag of Nutri kibble the pet store had given me, and he went at it as
if he had never eaten in his life. Finally, with a full tummy, the pup
slept happily the entire night without a yap in his new cage. My
question is, maybe he is too young to do the raw, and the kibble will
be okay until he gets a little older, at which time I could attempt it
again. Any thoughts on this procedure? Thanks.
Peggy

Messages in this topic (14)
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8a. Re: IN FRANCE: need advice
Posted by: "Belinda van de Loo" auntielindyloo@yahoo.com belindavandeloo
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:38 am ((PST))

Hi Michal,
We have some similar problems here in the Netherlands re: meat
prices. I hunt for sales all the time.
A couple successful ideas:
- Muslim butchers. If you buy regularly they might give you deals
and also bones, organs, etc.
- Slaughterhouse. Find the slaughterhouse nearest you (you may have
to travel a bit). Often you can get very large bones for nothing
with still some meat on them. Often slaughterhouses will sell to the
general public for reduced rates (bypassing the middle men) on one
day a week or even have their own shop.
- Carnibest. This is a natural product that is European and not just
restricted to the Netherlands. Here is the contact info for
Netherlands and they should be able to tell you if they ship (frozen)
to other countries or who they work with in other European lands.

Bunschoten Diervoeders BV
Harderwijkerweg 134C
3852 AH Ermelo
Tel: 0341-460330
Fax: 0341-433991
E-mail: info@carnibest.nl

Hope this helps.
Blessings,
Belinda and "Honey" from Holland

Messages in this topic (3)
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