[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12319

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: South African Boerboel puppy question?
From: cdhaik
1b. Re: South African Boerboel puppy question?
From: cdhaik

2. Pig Leg bones...
From: Eddie Scholten

3a. Re: concerned
From: Belinda van de Loo

4a. Re: Dog with heartworm
From: Tina Berry
4b. ADMIN/Re: Dog with heartworm
From: costrowski75
4c. Re: Dog with heartworm
From: DM H

5a. Allergic Dog not any better
From: Sara Buchanan
5b. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
From: Andrea
5c. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
From: Laveda Barritt

6a. Re: S.O.S and venison ribs in NE Michigan
From: Tina Berry

7a. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
From: Bumble1994@aol.com
7b. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
From: Shirley
7c. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
From: Shirley
7d. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
From: carnesbill

8a. Re: Soft / edible bones
From: judy tallant

9. dog with diabetes
From: Laura Stock

10a. Re: Bone size
From: groomindiva67

11a. Re: Dr. Pitcairn's recipe questions
From: Tina Berry

12a. Re: Deer carcases
From: Tina Berry

13a. Re: new to rawfeeding with Dobes
From: Lisa Blair

14a. Re: Buying from the source
From: carnesbill

15a. Re: Salmon Oil/How much???
From: cynthiashankman

16a. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
From: Marci
16b. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
From: carnesbill

Messages
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1a. Re: South African Boerboel puppy question?
Posted by: "cdhaik" cdhaik@yahoo.com cdhaik
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:06 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "footblack78" <footblack78@...>
wrote:
>
> I need some help on understanding good diet for my puppy. My
breeder that I am
> buying my dog from spoke to me about bone growth and protein. She
stated that it is
> important that I can slow the bone growth down, with using the
right food with the right
> percentage of protein can help. So I need some help in figuring
out proper puppy/dog food,
> treats, chew bones, vitamin brands that are out there. Also what
kind of human food do some
> of you give your boerboel that continues to give them good health?
>
> This will be a huge help you guys, I appreciate it.
>
> Good day,
> Johann
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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1b. Re: South African Boerboel puppy question?
Posted by: "cdhaik" cdhaik@yahoo.com cdhaik
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:06 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "footblack78" <footblack78@...>
wrote:
>
> I need some help on understanding good diet for my puppy. My
breeder that I am

Oh jees sorry Johan the first reply i sent was done by cyber
gremlin. Now good to see South Africa here baie lekker om die
waarheid to se so welcome! Finding whole sources of food should not
be a problem depending on where you live. I think the only probs we
had was rabbit but other than that whole fish and green tripe from a
butcher and of course when hunting season begins you can have a ball
if you know any hunters. We lived in the Overberg regioin and i made
friends with a butcher there who supplied me with all the considered
throw away stuff so green tripe was easy to get as well as heads of
anything slaughtered. We managed to get fresh fish from the close by
harbours and of course when the sardien run is on all is OK. One
thing stressed on this list is cold water fish being better than
warm water but i am not sure how that affects us in SA. Living Cape
side it has always been cold water vis so it has been easy.

I have two Australian Shepherds. One is South African born and bred
from Constantia and the other we took the opportunity to get while
living in North America temporarily. The raw diet does slow down the
growth rate appropriately and satisfactorily. I have been feeding
raw fully for 11 months now and am very happy. There truly is very
little you need to feed other than the variety and the correct
percentage of raw. You can get cheaper sources of meat like i say
make friends with your butcher and if you hunt or know anyone else
who does even better. Tongue and brain were quite easily obtained
and cheap from our local Spar as well again as the butcher. Eggs are
easily available too. Dont worry about the human food aspect our
dogs will eat meat that we might not consider at all palatable,
remember they are descended from wolves and stuff that is a little
green is just fine for them. This is where i find many bargains on
meat here and also back home in SA. I know the raw meat and veggie
diet is very popular in SA but truly the raw meat only is the best
way to go.

For chews stay away from the rawhide. What we did for our Aussie
girl and i know this sounds gross but we just got whole and fresh
ears and feet and such. We managed quite well getting legs and feet
from ostrich farmers so you just have to be inventive and the
unbleached hoofies are also brilliant. The only supplements we give
the dogs is the 1000miu Salmon capsules that you can by at any
Dischem at a good price. Those are given daily as a supplement for
the omega 3 intake but truly you need nothing else. For training of
course biltong pieces and dry wors are hundred percent acceptable
and loved.

Check out the archives on this site and the links. There is
excellent advice from people doing this for years. Raw feeding will
provide you Boer Bull with good food and optimum health and start as
young as you can according to the begginers advice on this site. You
will not be sorry.

Lekkerbly

Caren y Rain y Amber

Messages in this topic (5)
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2. Pig Leg bones...
Posted by: "Eddie Scholten" shirl-ed@hotmail.com shirley11964
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:06 am ((PST))

Hello everyone,

I have a local source (FREE) of pig leg bones and I have some here now, but I don't think I should give them as they are the really solid/heavy feeling bones, with just a very small amount of meat on them.

Are these safe as a good chew for a large dog? Or are then teeth-breakers?

If they are safe, I will wait until my GR pup is older (at just 8 weeks now, I guess he's got no use for them?).

Shirley


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Messages in this topic (1)
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3a. Re: concerned
Posted by: "Belinda van de Loo" auntielindyloo@yahoo.com belindavandeloo
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:06 am ((PST))

Hi Nante,
I don't recall your intial post but I also have a young puppy in the
house and I do not give drumsticks - only wings. Their teeth are not
able to crush the larger "weight-bearing" bones at that age and
therefore the bones are not crushed sufficiently to navigate the
intestinal tract.
What to do now? Just wait, feed only meat (not bone) for a day. It
should work itself through. And, de-bone those thighs and drumsticks
or whack them with a mallet to crush the bones... or (what I do) attach
a vice grip to one end of the bone and this forces them to work on the
bone instead of swallowing.
Hope this helps.
Belinda

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dario" <nanterossi@...> wrote:
>
> My little 13 week old pupp has been on raw for a few weeks. I was
feeding him on chicken
> wings and some carcasses and his stools were really hard. I posted up
and had a few
> replies. I took the advice and and have been giving him drumsticks,
and thighs (with
> drumsticks). Now he has really bad watery stools. Quite smelly
too...What to doooo???
> Getting a little concerned. HELP!!!!
>
> nante
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: Dog with heartworm
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:06 am ((PST))

"He is going in for his neuter tomorrow, then will start his treatment for
heartworm in approximately one to two weeks, during which he must be kept as
calm and quiet as possible. (No control over timing on my part,
unfortunately.)"

I would seriously consider this alternative to the vet's HW treatment.

http://www.wolfcreekranch.net/heartworm_free.html

--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (15)
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4b. ADMIN/Re: Dog with heartworm
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:18 am ((PST))

A reminder to all that heartworm is not an appropriate topic for
rawfeeding. Please take the topic to RawChat, DogHealth or private.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (15)
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4c. Re: Dog with heartworm
Posted by: "DM H" hawks.bluff@yahoo.com hawks.bluff
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:37 am ((PST))

Hi Tina,

Funny you should recommend Wolf Creek Ranch. I know
Julie and have spent time with her wolves. :-) I
used to live just down the road from her.

I had a bad experience with the whole Parvaid and
colloidal silver thing, though, lost pretty much every
puppy in a litter of approx eleven, even though Julie
personally treated each one (and did so diligently and
tirelessly, so absolutely no blame on her).
Consequently, I am pretty leery of the "cure in a
bottle" approach.

Donna

Messages in this topic (15)
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5a. Allergic Dog not any better
Posted by: "Sara Buchanan" judge742@yahoo.com judge742
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:07 am ((PST))

I've had my 4 year old Choc Lab on raw for about a month and her allergies are worse than ever. We have mainly been feeding her chicken, with turkey and pork. She has had no trouble moving to raw but her skin is so red and bumpy we put her back on pred and atopica. Could she be allergic to chicken??
Sara and Rose

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Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:31 am ((PST))

It's pretty rare for a dog to have true allergies to raw meats but it
is possible. First I would check to see if you are feeding enhanced
meats at all. One of my boys gets terribly itchy when he eats
chicken that has some kind of broth injected into it. Next I would
eliminate all treats from the diet. If the chicken is fine and you
don't give treats you should switch to pork only for about 6 weeks.
It takes a long time for allergens to get out of the system
sometimes. If the allergies subside I would suggest not feeding
chicken for a long while and later (if at all) go back and try it
again to see if the allergies come back.

I'd also take a good hard look at environmental allergies. Is there
more pollen, a new detergent being used, new shampoo? Keep us
updated, and good luck.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sara Buchanan <judge742@...> wrote:
>
> I've had my 4 year old Choc Lab on raw for about a month and her
allergies are worse than ever. We have mainly been feeding her
chicken, with turkey and pork.

Messages in this topic (3)
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5c. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
Posted by: "Laveda Barritt" l.barritt@yahoo.com l.barritt
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:57 am ((PST))

Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote: What kind of pork bones my 85lb dog cant get through neck bones. He is allergic to chicken and I,m trying to find something else to feed him. Thanks Laveda Barritt

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Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: S.O.S and venison ribs in NE Michigan
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:07 am ((PST))

"but, the bones feel so fragile and sharp to me (it is a deer, after all).
At this point of his transition, should I set one slab down and let him have
it?"

Since he is new to raw I would agree with Bill and stick with whole
chickens, organs for about a month; I have fed fresh venision with no
problems not freezing first, but since this is a new meat I would wait. But
yes, you can give the whole rack and let him have at it.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:07 am ((PST))

In a message dated 11/26/2007 9:22:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
"catar2catars" writes:

On a few Dutch Barf boards, the rumour was spread that the FDA want to
close down the raw dog food industry in the USA.

After the recall of some contaminated prepacked frozen meat packages
from the Bravo Doog Food Cy, the FDA inspectors themselfs confirmed
this to the manager of that compagny.

Is this a concern only for those compagnys who are producing raw,
minced meat "sausages" like Barf TM style , or is this a concern for
compagnies who sell the real stuff as it should be , or is this no
concern at all and just a poker game from the FDA boys and girls ?

****
Hi, Roger,

You won't find people on this board who think ANY companies sell "the real
stuff as it should be"...except meat departments in grocery stores. :)

I am confident that it is a rumor. After all, the FDA didn't even have the
power to recall the tainted pet food that was clearly killing cats and dogs.
Only the companies themselves could do that. And all some of them did was put
a new sticker over the old one and send it out again, with no repercussions.
(The lack of power of the FDA has is truly amazing.)

There WERE congressional hearings about the recalls and what's wrong with
the FDA (underfunded and understaffed, along with powerless), and I have no
doubt that some of what was said there sounded very threatening to some pet food
companies. However, those in the USA know that Congress isn't going to do
anything that will impact the purses of their good sponsors....er, campaign
donors...

Lynda

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
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Messages in this topic (7)
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7b. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
Posted by: "Shirley" ssthunderpony@yahoo.com ssthunderpony
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:36 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "catar2catars" <roger.may@...>
wrote:
>
> On a few Dutch Barf boards, the rumour was spread that the FDA want
to
> close down the raw dog food industry in the USA.
###########

Hiya Roger ,
Welcome , grab a chair and lets chat ;-)

JSYK ........... We are not a BARF list.

Raw feeding is PREY model feeding so the dogs and cats get the
entire benefit of the TOTAL nutrition they need to thrive along with
the mental and physical part that is so important.

A nice side effect of true raw feeding is there are no trips to the
vetspital unless there is an emergency or for the dreaded mandated
by law Rabies poke ........... grrrrrrrrrrr.

> or is this no
> concern at all >

########## NO COMMENT ! ! ! hahahahahaha

Best as Always,
Shirley & the Kitchen Wolves
imagegermanshepherds.com
est 1959

Messages in this topic (7)
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7c. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
Posted by: "Shirley" ssthunderpony@yahoo.com ssthunderpony
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:37 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "catar2catars" <roger.may@...>
wrote:
>
> On a few Dutch Barf boards, the rumour was spread that the FDA want
to
> close down the raw dog food industry in the USA.
###########

Hiya Roger ,
Welcome , grab a chair and lets chat ;-)

JSYK ........... We are not a BARF list.

Raw feeding is PREY model feeding so the dogs and cats get the
entire benefit of the TOTAL nutrition they need to thrive along with
the mental and physical part that is so important.

A nice side effect of true raw feeding is there are no trips to the
vetspital unless there is an emergency or for the dreaded mandated
by law Rabies poke ........... grrrrrrrrrrr.

> or is this no
> concern at all >

########## NO COMMENT ! ! ! hahahahahaha

Best as Always,
Shirley & the Kitchen Wolves
imagegermanshepherds.com
est 1959

Messages in this topic (7)
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7d. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:58 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "catar2catars" <roger.may@...>
wrote:
>
> On a few Dutch Barf boards, the rumour was spread that the
> FDA want to
> close down the raw dog food industry in the USA.

As far as I know it's just a rumor and personally I don't care if they
do or don't. It makes no difference to me or the way I feed. All
that stuff is just raw kibble anyway.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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8a. Re: Soft / edible bones
Posted by: "judy tallant" judy@tallant.com judyltallant
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:07 am ((PST))

In addition to salmon heads and tails, I give my golden retrievers
the skeletal remains of filleted salmon. I do have to cut these up as
they irritate (tickle, I think) the digestive system and sometimes
come back up if eaten in whole pieces. These are raw - so soft you
could wrap the salmon ribs around your finger like a ring - so no
chance of sticking your dog. I think that if the whole salmon filet
was still attached to them, they would go down and stay down.

On Nov 26, 2007, at 4:39 AM, sneza61_st wrote:

> Is there any possibility of fish bones to stick in her throat or
> elsewhere?

Judy Tallant
Snohomish, Wa

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9. dog with diabetes
Posted by: "Laura Stock" stockhouse@uniserve.com oceanchickens
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:07 am ((PST))

Hello. My parents have a 6yo medium-sized mixed breed dog who's just been diagnosed with diabetes. Has anyone here had any luck reversing diabetes by switching to raw?

Thanks!

Laura

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Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: Bone size
Posted by: "groomindiva67" redneckdiva@sbcglobal.net groomindiva67
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:08 am ((PST))

Andrea thanks so much. I think I am starting to get the idea. Just
talked to a friend of mine that is getting a new golden puppy. told
her about this forum and she is excited about learning this also.

Monica and the Redneck Crew

Messages in this topic (3)
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11a. Re: Dr. Pitcairn's recipe questions
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:08 am ((PST))

"I would suggest forgetting about Dr. Pitcairn's book altogether.

What you want to feed is a prey model style raw diet which is raw meat, raw
bones covered in raw meat and some raw eggs. Zero fruits and zero veggies.

The standard way to start is to feed 2% to 3% of the dog's ideal adult body
weight. A 100 pound dog would be fed 2 to 3 pounds of raw food a day. Once
you have some experience feeding your dog a raw diet you can adjust the
amount depending on how much your dog actually needs.

You want to feed 80% raw meat, 10% raw bone and 10% organ meat (like liver
or kidney).

No ground anything."

Ditto what Ann said.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (13)
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12a. Re: Deer carcases
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:08 am ((PST))

"Can i just give them the entire thing in the back yard?"

You can - I sometimes hack mine up into smaller pieces with a saw just so I
can freeze smaller pieces, which are still fairly large. It's up to you.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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13a. Re: new to rawfeeding with Dobes
Posted by: "Lisa Blair" lkblair@yahoo.com lkblair
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:08 am ((PST))

Hi, April. I'm in the Austin area, too. Feel free to email me offlist if you find anything.

Lisa

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogro ups.com, "arabianbluedobe"

<arabianbluedobe@ ...> wrote:

> Anyone here live near Lockhart, Tx about 1 hr souhteast of Austin?

> I would like to get a group together to buy in bulk. There is only

> one meat market near here. No fish markets either.

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Messages in this topic (3)
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14a. Re: Buying from the source
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:36 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "the swamp witch"
<theswampwitch@...> wrote:
>
> I am contemplating sourcing our meats straight off
> the farm.

Absolutely the best thing you can do if you can swing it.

> What kind of hassle is it to get the animal processed, etc?

DOn't have a clue. I've never done it.

> Thanks for any words of wisdom as we sort through this decision.

Wish I had some widom along these lines. I haven't had the
opportunity to do it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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15a. Re: Salmon Oil/How much???
Posted by: "cynthiashankman" ShankMa4@aol.com cynthiashankman
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:36 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> Since the origin of the recommendations is somewhat vague, I think
one
> can use /30 pounds or /20 pounds as one sees fit. It's hardly a
> formula and it is more about the dog than anything else. FWIW, I
give
> my 32lb dog one 1000mg capsule a day as "maintenance".
> Chris O

Thanks Chris, that is helpful!

Cindi
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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16a. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
Posted by: "Marci" twilli55@tampabay.rr.com mtm1will
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:36 am ((PST))

The only reason I feed daily is because weekly i'd have to give 1.4
lbs which is 1 1/2 meals of just organs. The like organ when mixed
with something else but not plain so I feed daily for that reason
only. I understand what you're saying though. Thanks for the
clarification.

Marci

> "Marci" <twilli55@> wrote:>
> > I was under the assumption that it was 10% if their daily meal or more
> > if you feed every few days...should I not be giving them organ every
> > day? So if my dogs get 2 lbs of food each day I give them about .2 lbs
> > of organ...if it's not a daily thing, how much should I give and how
> > often?
*********
>
> If you prefer to feed organs daily (for whatever reason) you'd feed 10%
> of the amount you feed daily. So you'd offer 1.6 ounces of organ if
> you were feeding 16 ounces of meal.
>
> If you prefer to feed organs once a week, you'd feed 11.2 ounces of
> organ meats because 16 ounces a day x 7 days is 112 ounces and 11.2
> ounces is 10% of that.
>
> But this is all very silly. What the "10% organs" says is you don't

> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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16b. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:37 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jordan_spiva" <jordan_spiva@...>
wrote:
>
> I feed my dog a diet of raw meaty bones from a variety
> of different animals.

Cool, that plus organs occasionally is all you need to feed. Forget
the other stuff. It is a waste of money and not really
accomplishing anything.

> It wont hurt. would it?

I won't hurt but it's not accomplishing anything.

> I use the premade as a supplement because my mom HATES the
> smell of tripe and organs which ushually complete a raw diet.

No need to feed tripe. In over 5 years of raw feeding I have never
one time fed tripe. I have never even seen any. I don't have a
clue what it smells like and don't care although I understand it's
not real pleasant. Organs don't smell all that bad. You can get
past that part. The smell of organs is an excuse not a reason.

> Plus I use it because venison and duck are really hard to find.

I feed venison when I can talk people into GIVING me some.
Otherwise I don't feed it. I have never fed duck in 5 years of raw
feeding.

> Plus even the website I buy
> from is always out of venison and duck because so many people
> are crazy about feeding it to their dogs.

Forget websites, they are much too expensive.

> I am getting nothing but positive comments from my vet after
> every checkup.

It's not the medallions causing that. It's the raw diet in general.

> If you want to suggest flicking off the premade,what should I
> use to replace it (besides tripe).

More of the other stuff you are already feeding. If you are not
feeding pork or beef roasts, they are good things to feed.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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