[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12317

There are 13 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Making the switch
From: Eddie Scholten

2. concerned
From: dario

3a. Re: Excessive urinating
From: sltahoek9s

4a. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

5a. Questions on perground
From: jetblst2002
5b. Re: Questions on perground
From: bluegracepwd
5c. Re: Questions on perground
From: jetblst2002
5d. Re: Questions on perground
From: Laurie Swanson

6a. Re: Preparing Quail
From: glamour.cupcakes

7a. Re: trying not working
From: ELLEN DIX
7b. Re: trying not working
From: blue eyed

8. raw food compagnies in the USA
From: catar2catars

9. Soft / edible bones
From: sneza61_st

Messages
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1a. Re: Making the switch
Posted by: "Eddie Scholten" shirl-ed@hotmail.com shirley11964
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:59 am ((PST))

Hi Paula,

I'm new too, just 6 days, but from all I've read (answers from people on this list) the best way is to make a clean break with commercial food and switch to raw 'cold turkey' - no transitional phase.

Good luck,

Shirley

To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.comFrom: roogirl@adam.com.auDate: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 05:06:41 +0000Subject: [rawfeeding] Making the switch

Hello, I'm new and I apologise if this has been asked a thousand times, but is it okay to switch a dog straight to all raw feeding or should there be a transitional phase? Thank you and kind regards - Paula

_________________________________________________________________
http://www.live.com/?mkt=nl-nl
Live.nl

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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2. concerned
Posted by: "dario" nanterossi@yahoo.co.uk nanterossi
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:59 am ((PST))

My little 13 week old pupp has been on raw for a few weeks. I was feeding him on chicken
wings and some carcasses and his stools were really hard. I posted up and had a few
replies. I took the advice and and have been giving him drumsticks, and thighs (with
drumsticks). Now he has really bad watery stools. Quite smelly too...What to doooo???
Getting a little concerned. HELP!!!!

nante

Messages in this topic (1)
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3a. Re: Excessive urinating
Posted by: "sltahoek9s" crazy4k9@aol.com sltahoek9s
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:59 am ((PST))

I'm only a few weeks in but, my 1 year old lab was doing the same thing. She's also only on
chicken, but there's definitely a LOT of moisture in the chicken. Make sure you aren't getting
enhanced chicken. Salty solutions would make her drink and pee more. I re-portioned my
labs meals to a more manageable size per meal and with a little time and patience, that
seems to be under control. I'd suggest smaller and more frequent meals.

Also, puppies have to learn to control their bladder over time. It's up to you to notice
behavioral changes that lead to mistakes in the house. She will definitely have to go
frequently when being active/playing. Definitely when waking up from a nap, after drinking
and after meal times. Some puppies take longer and need more frequent outings. My lab at
that age had to go out every 20-30 minutes when active.

Hope this helps!

Tammy C

Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:59 am ((PST))

In a message dated 11/26/2007 12:29:49 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jordan_spiva@yahoo.com writes:

If you want to suggest flicking off the premade,what should I use to replace
it
(besides tripe).

****ok, my first question is what are you trying to accomplish by
supplimenting?

are you trying to add nutrition from vegetables that dogs don't need?

or are you trying to add variety?

or are you somehow thinking that duck or venison ground up with veggies is a
substitute for organs?

if you are trying to add variety, then add duck, turkey, buffalo, emu, lamb,
goat, beef..

if you are trying to add nutrition from vegetables that dogs have no use for,
why bother? just stop adding the veggies.

::::news flash::::
green tripe is NOT vegetables and is not a substitute for vegetables. green
tripe is stomach muscle that has not been bleached, scalded and sanitized for
human consumption. That's ALL it is.

ground mixes also are not substitutes for organ meats. If you don't like the
smell or texture of organ meats you will convey these feelings to your dogs
and your dogs will refuse to eat them. You need to get over your squeemishness
and feed what the dogs need. The good news is that organs, including liver,
only need to be about 10% of the overall diet, so it's not a daily thing. at
the most maybe a weekly thing, and then only a part of a meal...

organs are easy, especially if you have only one or two dogs, you can buy
liver in a cup at the grocery store, it's cheap and you only have to buy one cup
maybe in a month. and if you go to the local hispanic grocery store you can
find kidneys, either beef or pork less generally for less than $1 lb.
I personally prefer pork kidneys, they come 3 to a package and they are just
the right serving size for a medium sized dog, no cutting or fussing with
necessary (especially if you don't like to touch them or cut them up).

Sweetbreads are great organs, and i haven't noticed any strong smells, but
they are kinda funky feeling. spleens (melts) are fun, they look like long flat
strips of blood gelatin with a skin on them and they STINK. But the dogs
LOVE them. Again the pork melts are easier because there is no cutting involved,
they are just the right size for part of a meal for a medium sized dog, or a
whole meal for a smallish dog.

see.. problem solved. and it didn't even hurt, and you'll be spending lots
less money and not feeding ground crap that you have no control over the
ingredients.

Catherine R.

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products.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Questions on perground
Posted by: "jetblst2002" bosboy101@mac.com jetblst2002
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:00 am ((PST))

I have been looking at a preground mix that has the bone, meat, and
organs all ground together. Has anyone on here every used these
premixes and if so how did you find them, did you have to add anything
to them? Any info on these would be great.

Travis

Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: Questions on perground
Posted by: "bluegracepwd" janea@tpg.com.au bluegracepwd
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:04 am ((PST))

hi Travis,

the simple answer is to avoid preground food completely for a range of
reasons. I've even set up a webpage on it:

http://www.rawlearning.com/premaderaw.html

Actually I had an interesting email exchange in recent days from a
woman who wanted to tell me how she sells a wonderful pre-made
product. She was very upset when I soundly berated her for the crap
she had in her product and was selling as a product that dogs should
eat.

So Travis, stick to real food.

cheers

Jane

Messages in this topic (4)
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5c. Re: Questions on perground
Posted by: "jetblst2002" bosboy101@mac.com jetblst2002
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:25 am ((PST))

Hi Jane,

Thanks for the helpful information. I love the website you have setup,
it has tons of information. It's one of the best out there. Again
thanks for the help.

Travis

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "bluegracepwd" <janea@...> wrote:
>
> hi Travis,
>
> the simple answer is to avoid preground food completely for a range of
> reasons. I've even set up a webpage on it:
>
> http://www.rawlearning.com/premaderaw.html
>
> Actually I had an interesting email exchange in recent days from a
> woman who wanted to tell me how she sells a wonderful pre-made
> product. She was very upset when I soundly berated her for the crap
> she had in her product and was selling as a product that dogs should
> eat.
>
> So Travis, stick to real food.
>
> cheers
>
> Jane
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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5d. Re: Questions on perground
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:50 am ((PST))

Hi Travis,

I used to use these before I'd thought of just shopping at the
grocery store (pet food is at pet stores, right?! :-)) or heard of
the prey model style of rawfeeding (what this list is about). They
worked ok, but they had lots of veggies and my dog is doing better on
hunks of animals. He is pooping less (his food is more digestible
now--he used to poop out a lot of carrots!), he's getting good dental
hygiene, much of his food exercises his whole body, etc. He also has
had a few episodes of minor pancreatitis in the past (none in awhile
now), and I wonder if the ground food and the veggies exacerbated
it. He used to only be able to handle smaller meals and would often
sort of regurgitate. The stomach doesn't have enough time to prepare
with the acids/enzymes necessary and it's eaten so fast... When they
have to rip and tear and think about their food, the stomach can get
ready. It's just all-around more engaging. He hasn't had any issues
with regurgitating since switching to prey model, except occasionally
with his Kongs, which I fill with ground meat.

Another thing about the premade mixes, is you don't really know
exactly the proportions of what's in there. It can be really fatty,
or have a lot of bone, or be high in certain organs, and it's hard to
tell. I like knowing what I'm feeding.

So, I think those mixes can be convenient occasionally if you're
traveling, or need to use something like that for a pet sitter, or
something. But not the ideal diet. And not cheap, either! You can
do much better at the grocery store!

Good luck,

Laurie

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: Preparing Quail
Posted by: "glamour.cupcakes" glamour.cupcakes@yahoo.com glamour.cupcakes
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:24 am ((PST))

Thank you, Chris! :)

- Kay L.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> For these however--and other dressed and processed birds--the most
> important thing is the remove the packaging before giving the birds
to
> one's dog or cat. Commercially acquired birds are good to go.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. Re: trying not working
Posted by: "ELLEN DIX" ellileeah22@verizon.net ellileeah
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:25 am ((PST))

YES, Bill, I like this Group and I would like to share this post with my potential puppy people to encourage them to feed raw and to take a step "out of the box", even to join this group BEFORE they get a puppy!. Could I cross post this message to them?

Sorry, I don't know how to trim posts on Outlook Express: it is either everything is copied or everything deleted
Ellen Dix
Soft Coated Wheatens

----- Original Message -----
From: carnesbill
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:21 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: trying not working

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tiffany.contempopainting"
<tiffcurran@...> wrote:
>
> Hi new at this.I tried turkey necks, chicken legs, and even
> the frozen packaged raw.

Whoa! Slow down. Start with one thing at a time and move slowly.
Most start with chicken. Give the dogs a piece of chicken. Get out
of their way and leave them alone. Don't hover over them. Don't
encourage them. Don't cajole them. Just watch them from a distance.
Don't do any cooking or dressing up the food in any way.

After 10 minutes of no interest, pick up the food and put it in the
fridge. Bring it out at the next meal time. Not before. No snacks
or treats between meals. Do the same thing next meal. If necessary
do the same thing the meal after that and the meal after that.

They won't starve. A dog won't let himself starve when there is food
around. You aren't starving them. You are offering food and they are
refusing to eat.

After a couple of weeks of feeding nothing but chicken, add turkey to
the mix. If all is still ok after another week, add something else
like pork. Add one new meat ever week after that until you have
offered most everything available.

Bill Carnes

http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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7b. Re: trying not working
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:24 am ((PST))

Sorry if I have missed a post but have you tried using the ground mixes (or grinding yourself)? This way it includes the bone....I'm not suggesting this be the way of feeding forever but just until they get a taste for it? I find my dog seems to love the smell of minced chicken (more than he does of chicken wings) and you can still put a chicken wing in there, I have found that once they start eating and enjoy the mince they will usually go for it and eat the RMB as well. Might be an idea to slash up the chicken skin/meat, get the smells going...

Also, I would start with a fast day. No treats etc, just 24 hours without any food, then their raw meal. If they dont eat it then put it in the fridge and offer it at feeding time the next day. I dont know much about small dogs, have heard that they can suffer dodgy blood sugar levels without any food so you could offer a bit of (raw) diced chicken breast half way through the fast but just a tiny bit.

Also just relax, if you have any anxieties while they are feeding or about to feed (inc whether they will eat it or not) they will pick up on it and more than likley wont eat it. I remember one of, if not the the first time I gave my pup a lambs neck, he looked at it for ages then ran around avoiding it, he threw it around the garden about ten times, jumped on it, shook it, growled at it, circled it, barked at it and eventually (once it was covered in muck and grass) ate it. This process took a while! I just had to watch from the kitchen window, now he eats on his 'mat' no problem.

Hope this helps,

Natalie

---------------------------------
For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month.

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Messages in this topic (7)
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8. raw food compagnies in the USA
Posted by: "catar2catars" roger.may@telenet.be catar2catars
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:25 am ((PST))

On a few Dutch Barf boards, the rumour was spread that the FDA want to
close down the raw dog food industry in the USA.

After the recall of some contaminated prepacked frozen meat packages
from the Bravo Doog Food Cy, the FDA inspectors themselfs confirmed
this to the manager of that compagny.

Is this a concern only for those compagnys who are producing raw,
minced meat "sausages" like Barf TM style , or is this a concern for
compagnies who sell the real stuff as it should be , or is this no
concern at all and just a poker game from the FDA boys and girls ?

best regards

Roger.

Messages in this topic (1)
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9. Soft / edible bones
Posted by: "sneza61_st" sneza61_st@yahoo.com sneza61_st
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:50 am ((PST))

Hi everyone! I am new to this list and have the best opinion about
you, your efforts to help and support and... I've been reading your
posts and learning for some time and everything seems so clear except
that I feel uncomfortable about bones and feeding fish.
I have approx. 5 yrs old Rottie mix girl Tina,rescued from street
after being heavily beaten, and now with many health problems ; her
ideal weight would be 27 kgs. She gulps everything eatable with
minimum or no chewing at all. Earlier I fed her cooked food, canned
fish, raw occasionaly as a desert, and kibble. Never any suplement.
Few weeks ago I switched to raw, so far no problems. Please help me
with these questions:
Can you give me the link or the list of soft / edible bones for
Tina's size?
Is there any possibility of fish bones to stick in her throat or
elsewhere?
I can get chicken, beef, pork (meat, bones and organs), mackarel,
sardines and other fish, and sometimes lamb or turkey. Is this enough
variety?
I appreciate any help.

Regards from Serbia,
Snezana and Tina

Messages in this topic (1)
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