[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12325

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: Pork Neck Bones
From: ncrnrgrl
1.2. Re: Pork Neck Bones
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: Three pounds/day for 100 lb dog
From: Sandee Lee

3a. Re: How to get started?
From: imperial_bloodlines

4a. 3 week old puppies
From: ELLEN DIX
4b. Re: 3 week old puppies
From: Caren OConnor

5a. Re: how much to feed a 4lb chihuahua?
From: mozookpr

6a. Re: My introduction:
From: mozookpr
6b. Re: My introduction:
From: Ian Flanagan
6c. Re: My introduction:
From: Ian Flanagan
6d. Re: My introduction:
From: costrowski75
6e. Re: My introduction:
From: Sandee Lee
6f. Re: My introduction:
From: Ian Flanagan
6g. Re: My introduction:
From: Sandee Lee
6h. Re: My introduction:
From: merril Woolf

7a. Re: Whole Mackeral
From: imperial_bloodlines

8a. Re: New - Intro - dog with possible kidney disease
From: Casey Post
8b. Re: New - Intro - dog with possible kidney disease
From: Pundah

9a. Re: Salmon Oil/How much???
From: Cheryl Younesi

10a. Chihuahua Gulping + Choking -- Ideas?
From: Cheryl Younesi

11a. Vomiting after meals
From: sphynxlover2
11b. Re: Vomiting after meals
From: ginny wilken

12. Dave Mech and his wolves
From: Sai Simonson

13a. Re: more on turkey wings and reply to Chris
From: Michelle R

14. Beef Heart? and other meats :)
From: redangelbordeaux

Messages
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1.1. Re: Pork Neck Bones
Posted by: "ncrnrgrl" jcraver1@nc.rr.com ncrnrgrl
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:22 pm ((PST))

I've been feeding neck bones this size or a little large to my two
GSD's for some time as well, and in fact, just picked up about 3 more
pounds... Chris' response now has me a little freaked out.
Gah!

Jen C.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Hackley <twodobemom@...>
wrote:
>
> I would. Given that my dobes are about the same size
> as your pups, I'd actually say that their a bit on the
> small size, but that's just my opinion. I prefer my
> neck bones to be a bit bigger.
>
> Elizabeth Hackley, Flicka, Gunther Guinness with Loki & Max
(waiting at the bridge)
>
>
>
>
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> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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Messages in this topic (28)
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1.2. Re: Pork Neck Bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:06 pm ((PST))

"ncrnrgrl" <jcraver1@...> wrote:
>
> I've been feeding neck bones this size or a little large to my two
> GSD's for some time as well, and in fact, just picked up about 3
more
> pounds... Chris' response now has me a little freaked out.
*****
Hey, you can feed whatever you want to your dogs, it's cool. I don't
feed small bones to my retrievers. Those cut up pork necks freaked
me out the first time I offered them to my first rawfed dog, a golden
with no particular gulping tendencies. I fed one of those bones to
my golden bitch when she was four months old and knock wood it's the
only choking incident I've had to deal with.

My retrievers (heck, even the border collie) are fully capable of
swallowing hunks of anything the size of a playing card. Since bones
this size offer no dental or mental hygiene or physical workout, I
don't feed them.

For me, it's a win-win decision.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (28)
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2a. Re: Three pounds/day for 100 lb dog
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:24 pm ((PST))

But he needs the good stuff also. :) If he is really overweight, better to
cut down on amount of food, increase exercise, check for hypothyroidism,
etc. before removing skin and fat which are a necessary part of the diet.
He doesn't need the knuckle bones which are a tooth disaster waiting to
happen...and unless you are scraping all of the marrow out, he is getting a
bunch of extra food there.

And I'd replace some of those high bone poultry items with red meat.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Sai Simonson" <saiczarina@comcast.net>
> Have interesting thing to relate. Took Lexi (100+ lb Borzoi) to the vet
> scale today as he had been "telling" me he was starving and please give
> him an extra chicken thigh or two. He weighed in at 108 which is
> starting to concern me. I have removed all skin from the thighs. Now
> he gets the smaller turkey neck and the beef knuckle bone without the
> fat. His companion is only 62 lb female Borzoi so she gets the better
> stuff now. Lexi has gained 10 pounds since July on the all raw diet. Oh
> what to do??? :-)

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: How to get started?
Posted by: "imperial_bloodlines" imperial_bloodlines@yahoo.com imperial_bloodlines
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:33 pm ((PST))

Hi Leah!

I'm going to agree and say go with regular bone-in chicken and see how
the boy does with it. I have pit bulls myself and their jaw strength
alone can crunch up bones pretty good.

My 14 year old toothless guy used to have 1/2 chickens no problem and
it did wonders for the condition of his gums which had gone blotchy
and gray from lack of stimulation.

He shouldn't have an issue with any organ meats and for some variety
you can throw in ground beef or pork or better yet a shoulder roast!

Add eggs and fish which are VERY soft...my girls love milk fish and
salmon heads! Don't count him out until he's given it a shot!

Good luck and let us know how he does!

Jolene

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "iheartlabs" <iheartlabs@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm new to the group and am curious how to start raw feeding. I
> recently adopted a toothless pit bull
> Leah
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. 3 week old puppies
Posted by: "ELLEN DIX" ellileeah22@verizon.net ellileeah
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:48 pm ((PST))

Geri, will you please tell me how to start my 3 week old SCWTerrier pups. I have in the past used oats, barley, rice with raw goat's milk. Now, tell me the RIGHT WAY to start these puppies. Mom has been eating raw all of her 5 years, with gusto!
Thanks, Ellen Dix

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Geri" <CapeWindMastiff@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tommy,
>
> YOU may have only been feeding Caesar raw since 12 weeks, HE started
> with raw at 3 weeks with me, out of generations of rawfed dogs:-)
> Check your private email for advice of how to get my grandbaby
> switched over to what you normally feed.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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4b. Re: 3 week old puppies
Posted by: "Caren OConnor" cavkist@yahoo.com cavkist
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:19 pm ((PST))

Ellen -
I don't have SCWTs, but do have CKCS pups which I weaned to raw from their mother at about 4-5 weeks.
I began with ground meats, rabbit, chicken, mutton, with which I mixed a milk supplement (Nature's Farmacy, I think). From there I went with chicken necks and small portions of duck, pork, beef, fish, etc. But, I began with ground as my breed is small with small mouths:) It worked beautifully and they are now devouring 4.5 oz. portions of solid raw, and as healthy as little pups can be:)
Good luck to you with your little guys:)
Caren O'Connor
Nansemond Cavaliers

ELLEN DIX <ellileeah22@verizon.net> wrote:
Geri, will you please tell me how to start my 3 week old SCWTerrier pups. I have in the past used oats, barley, rice with raw goat's milk. Now, tell me the RIGHT WAY to start these puppies. Mom has been eating raw all of her 5 years, with gusto!
Thanks, Ellen Dix

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Geri" <CapeWindMastiff@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tommy,
>
> YOU may have only been feeding Caesar raw since 12 weeks, HE started
> with raw at 3 weeks with me, out of generations of rawfed dogs:-)
> Check your private email for advice of how to get my grandbaby
> switched over to what you normally feed.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: how much to feed a 4lb chihuahua?
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:48 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tamarabajema" <tamarabajema@...>
wrote:
>
> i would like to start feeding a raw diet. i understand that the
amount
> of food should be 2% of his body weight. But at 4lbs that is hardly
> anything.

A dog this size might do well with quail, if you can get them.
Pricey for most, but for a Chihuahua, it should be affordable,
especially if this is your only dog. Or, if you want to go whole hog
(or make that whole prey) see if you can get frozen baby chicks from
a reptile supplier. If you can bear it, the same supplier might have
pinkie rabbits, which should also be good. I would love to feed my
dogs whole prey, but with two dogs and six cats, it is just not
possible on my (lack of) income.

Good luck, keep us posted!

Wendy, Sophie and Foxy

Messages in this topic (8)
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6a. Re: My introduction:
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:19 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Ian,
>
> About time you get that pup switched over to real food! :))
>

Don't wait, it is easier to switch a puppy than an adult who has had
time to get hooked on kibble. Shouldn't be an issue with labs, who
have been known to eat anything (including socks, tin cans, and
rocks....) but why wait? Let 'em learn early! I have literally just
made the change, and my Sheltie pup, Sophie, has taken to it like she
was just waiting for me to wise up. Foxy, my five year Pomeranian,
is a bit less enthusiastic: he eats the food, but also mopes around
the kitchen looking for kibble. No reason to encourage that bad
habit.

If they are weaned, they are ready for meat.

Hang in there, and give that pup a meaty bone!

Wendy, Foxy, and Sophie

Messages in this topic (10)
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6b. Re: My introduction:
Posted by: "Ian Flanagan" oddariesofthe7th@yahoo.com oddariesofthe7th
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:12 pm ((PST))

Hey Sandra,

Chimay, the puppy (7 months), is currently weening off of Solid Gold Wolfcub, and on to Innova evo. with the other 2 I went from Solid Gold, to Innova Large Breed Puppy, then to evo. meh...I figured I'd skip a step. The reason is, for the longest time I bought into the crap that you must keep your puppy on the same kibble for atleast 2.5 years, however as I study more and more, it doesnt matter and is better to be on raw. I live to switch to evo because its a grain free, and prepares them for the upcoming diet. Which at first is paw naturaw (better quality than bravo), that phase is only for a few weeks as the body adjusts to the raw state. from there she joins the other 2 who get raw meats from local organic livestock raisers (bah to store bought BAH!), as well as their eggs, yogurt, and veggies. (i know most of you are probably anti-veggie but....imop, i have found that fresh organic locally grown pureed veggies have helped with my black labs allergies, enormously)

Ian.

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Messages in this topic (10)
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6c. Re: My introduction:
Posted by: "Ian Flanagan" oddariesofthe7th@yahoo.com oddariesofthe7th
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:12 pm ((PST))

Hey Wendy, Foxy, and Sophie,

I was originally waiting as I use to buy into the crap that breeders and vets tell their clients, keep the pup on the food until 2.5 years. Meh. my 2 other labs I weened them from Solid Gold Wolfcub to Innova Large Breed Pup, to Innova evo, and to Bravo (before I found paw naturaw), then on to there 100% home made diet. Chimay, the pup, is skipping the step and going on to evo, then onto paw naturaw, then onto the home made. I like to have them go with evo first as I've found it to be a good exiting dry food, and as paw naturaw is a good started for raw diets, which prepares her for the home made...usually a few weeks on paw naturaw while she weens onto pure home made.

heh, no with labs, switching foods is no problem at all! socks, tin cans, tree branches, tables, glaciers..whatever life throws at them, they'll eat it..or attempt to. lol

Ian

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Messages in this topic (10)
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6d. Re: My introduction:
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:56 pm ((PST))

Ian Flanagan <oddariesofthe7th@...> wrote:
I honestly didn't want to take her off the kibble until she was a lil
older. Now going on 7 months I feel its time. As I did with my other 2.
Normally I ween them from the solid gold wolfcub, to innova large breed
puppy kibble, to innova evo, then to bravo/paw naturaw pre made raw,
then to home made raw.
*****
Well, all of us make mistakes.
Not trusting a species appropriate diet is one of the mistakes many
people make; thinking it's beneficial to gently transition from doom
nuggets to raw is another.

My first weaned-to-raw pup is now 13 months old. What a joy and a
treasure she was to feed whole raw food to, at eight weeks. You are
indeed selling both raw food and your dogs short.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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6e. Re: My introduction:
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:40 pm ((PST))

Hey Ian,

Well, now that you know better, just switch to real raw and skip all those
steps. :) Kibble is never appropriate and your dogs certainly don't need
all those phases!! They don't need any preparation...they are carnivores!
:)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Ian Flanagan" <oddariesofthe7th@yahoo.com>
>
> Chimay, the puppy (7 months), is currently weening off of Solid Gold
Wolfcub, and on to Innova evo. with the other 2 I went from Solid Gold, to
Innova Large Breed Puppy, then to evo. meh...I figured I'd skip a step. The
reason is, for the longest time I bought into the crap that you must keep
your puppy on the same kibble for atleast 2.5 years, however as I study more
and more, it doesnt matter and is better to be on raw. I live to switch to
evo because its a grain free, and prepares them for the upcoming diet. Which
at first is paw naturaw (better quality than bravo), that phase is only for
a few weeks as the body adjusts to the raw state. from there she joins the
other 2 who get raw meats from local organic livestock raisers (bah to store
bought BAH!), as well as their eggs, yogurt, and veggies. (i know most of
you are probably anti-veggie but....imop, i have found that fresh organic
locally grown pureed veggies have helped with my black labs allergies,
enormously)

Messages in this topic (10)
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6f. Re: My introduction:
Posted by: "Ian Flanagan" oddariesofthe7th@yahoo.com oddariesofthe7th
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:06 pm ((PST))

Hey Sandee

I've experienced skipping all the steps with my oldest Nellie, to me that was one of the worse things I could do. She really didn't get sick, just the body was not use to it. She pretty much had the runs for a bit, I ended up putting her back on the kibble due to fear. From there I slowly introduced her back onto the raw diet. With Saranac I followed the same transition, I did not have any problems. Chimay will be on the raw soon, 2 months at most. probably not even.

Ian

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Messages in this topic (10)
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6g. Re: My introduction:
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:41 pm ((PST))

Hi Ian,

The runs aren't necessarily part of switching "cold turkey"...but soft
stools really are no big deal. We can help you with that!

Two months, two weeks, two days is too long to be feeding inappropriate food
to your little carnivore! :) Don't let fear motivate you!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Ian Flanagan" <oddariesofthe7th@yahoo.com>
> I've experienced skipping all the steps with my oldest Nellie, to me that
was one of the worse things I could do. She really didn't get sick, just the
body was not use to it. She pretty much had the runs for a bit, I ended up
putting her back on the kibble due to fear. From there I slowly introduced
her back onto the raw diet. With Saranac I followed the same transition, I
did not have any problems. Chimay will be on the raw soon, 2 months at most.
probably not even.

Messages in this topic (10)
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6h. Re: My introduction:
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:16 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Ian Flanagan <oddariesofthe7th@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Sandra,
>
> Chimay, the puppy (7 months), is currently weening off of Solid Gold Wolfcub, and on to
Innova evo. with the other 2 I went from Solid Gold, to Innova Large Breed Puppy, then to
evo. meh...I figured I'd skip a step. The reason is, for the longest time I bought into the
crap that you must keep your puppy on the same kibble for atleast 2.5 years, however as I
study more and more, it doesnt matter and is better to be on raw. I live to switch to evo
because its a grain free, and prepares them for the upcoming diet. Which at first is paw
naturaw (better quality than bravo), that phase is only for a few weeks as the body adjusts
to the raw state. from there she joins the other 2 who get raw meats from local organic
livestock raisers (bah to store bought BAH!), as well as their eggs, yogurt, and veggies. (i
know most of you are probably anti-veggie but....imop, i have found that fresh organic
locally grown pureed veggies have helped with my black labs allergies, enormously)
>
>
> Ian.

You need to get off that merry-go round you have with kibble. Evo, solid gold or
whatever is still kibble and if you want a long-lived dog with minimal health problems into
it's teen years, the sooner you put him on a NON-processed diet, the better.

I have raised many many raw fed pups from raw fed dams and they have never had a
single piece of kibble in their lives. I have always thought the best way to raise children
and pets is with the freshest ingredients you can find. Nothing processed ever and
especially nothing inappropriate for the species.

I'm not sure how you figure that raw food is good for adults but not appropriate for pups.
Guess that goes along with feeding kids McDonalds and all those sugary cereals until they
are adults then telling them to eat healthy.
It's too late by then and much of the damage is already done.
Good nutrition starts before they are born and continues until they die of old age.

Please get that pup on the proper food right away and throw away the junk food. Time
for you to rethink the junk food for pups diet. It's not fair for the pup. My mind is still
trying to grasp your reasoning. The easiest dogs to transition to raw are pups, btw
because they are not already conditioned to only eat one brand of processed food day in
an day out for years upon years. Their digestive system is ready and willing to take on
whatever is on the menu.
My pups start raw at about 4-5 weeks and they get a wide variety of foods from day one.
No meal is ever the same for them. Never had a problem yet and don't anticipate any.

Merril
All raw all the time

Messages in this topic (10)
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7a. Re: Whole Mackeral
Posted by: "imperial_bloodlines" imperial_bloodlines@yahoo.com imperial_bloodlines
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:19 pm ((PST))

Any and all fish are fair game for my dogs; big favorites here are Red
snapper, salmon and milk fish.

Whole, heads, tails....frozen or fresh, haven't had one get turned
down yet. Though they will play with them for a while and try to
"kill" them

*smile*

Incidentally as we have open water Snapper and Grouper farms
throughout the Caribbean, have no issues with these ever being on any
"endangered list" and they're always available and relatively cheap.

Jo

>>>>>>>>>>
> Some dogs like fish, some don't; some fish is more likeable than other
> fish. If you are looking to feed fish for Omega 3, buy salmon, trout,
> sardines, herring, anchovies, mackerel and other dark-fleshed, oily
> fish from cold marine water. Warm water fish generally do not offer
> Omega 3. Farmed fish offer less Omega 3 than wild caught fish.
> Chilean salmon are arguably the most healthy; Chilean seabass isn't sea
> bass and is on the endangered list. So is Orange Roughy and real Red
> Snapper. Oh, grouper I think is also endangered now.
>
> Oy. Fish, to me, is hardly worth the effort. I think you should just
> try some and see what happens.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: New - Intro - dog with possible kidney disease
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:30 pm ((PST))

> Raw is fine, but the challenge there becomes giving enough calories
> without overloading phosphorus.

Well, I've done the renal failure thing (actually, doing it right now, too)
and I haven't found a problem getting in enough calories. Fat is generally
low in phos and high in calories and it can help with constipation, which is
an issue with some animals in renal failure.

Casey

Messages in this topic (6)
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8b. Re: New - Intro - dog with possible kidney disease
Posted by: "Pundah" Pundah@comcast.net backpocketfarm
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:48 pm ((PST))

Thanks everyone for the tips. Yes, Sandee - we ran blood work in August. Long story. After we lost our Dane Reb in July, I was frightened and paranoid and told their regular vet to do full work ups. They did blood panels only and I was ignorant about urinalysis. Still feeling uneasy I interviewed more vets and this one wanted the urinalysis as well. I will definitely check out these other resources. Thank you all!

Tammy - Charleston, SC

----- Original Message -----
From: Sandee Lee
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Re: New - Intro - dog with possible kidney disease

Hi Tammy,

One of the most detrimental things you can do in dealing with a dog with
kidney disease is feed one of those low protein prescription diets. The
kidneys (and all other organs) require good quality, high moisture, easy to
digest, bioavailable protein which of course is raw. Depending on the
results you get, you may have to tweak the diet by reducing phosphorus, but
decreasing protein will do more harm than good. You definitely need more
than a urinalysis...did they not run any bloodwork?

We have discussed this a lot...did you look up renal disease or kidney
disease?

Here is some info about protein and kidneys....

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/114796

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Pundah" <Pundah@comcast.net>
>
> We have a Pointer mix, Cody, who will be 11 on Dec 1. He has always had
some food allergies, not horrific, but gives him runny eyes all the time and
occasional ear infections. The main issue now is that he is being diagnosed
as pre- or -early kidney disease. So I've read about the recommended Rx
kidney diet but am not crazy about all the corn in it. We have more tests
to run (the initial diagnosis based solely on urinalysis and I think more is
needed) and I've made out my list of questions. We see the regular vet on
Weds then an ultrasound next Tuesday. My main question regarding Cody is -
I've read from other raw supporters that there can be times when the raw
diet is contraindicated, such as when an illness already exists. On the
other hand, I've read many cases where the diet helped the illness. I've
tried searching the archived messages but dont a specific reply, tho I may
have missed it. I certainly dont want to make him worse, and admit to being
a bit hypersensitive as we lost our 7-yr old Danein July.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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9a. Re: Salmon Oil/How much???
Posted by: "Cheryl Younesi" CYounesi@mac.com cyounesi
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:54 pm ((PST))

I give my 3 pounder, one drop of salmon oil 2 times a day. My 6 pounder
gets a little larger drop 2 times a day. That's what was recommended;
well 1-1 1/2 drops per 12.5 pounds of dog. It's Grizzly Salmon Oil.
Cheryl

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10a. Chihuahua Gulping + Choking -- Ideas?
Posted by: "Cheryl Younesi" CYounesi@mac.com cyounesi
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:12 pm ((PST))

I have a 3 pounder and a 6 pounder and they do just fine with duck
necks (more of a snack since there's not much meat) duck feet (also a
snack) chicken wings are a fav of theirs. They eat beef, buffalo,
turkey and chicken also, but I've never given gizzards even though mine
aren't gulpers. I'd be afraid they'd try to swallow them whole.
Cheryl

Messages in this topic (7)
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11a. Vomiting after meals
Posted by: "sphynxlover2" AST42701@aol.com sphynxlover2
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:47 pm ((PST))

Hello all,
I've held off on posting about this problem because I really thought
it was nothing, but now it's continued and I'm becoming concerned, so
here I am. Anyway, my 6 year old AmStaff has been on raw for 6
months now, and in the last week he's begun to vomit up his entire
meal after every feeding. He typically gets anywhere from 1 pound to
1 3/4 pound per meal, depending on a variety of factors. He is a
self-regulator and it doesn't bother me because he maintains a good
weight that way. He eats only once a day, anywhere between 5 and 9
pm. He usually gets a small "snack" of something in the morning
before I leave for work.

The problem began when we came home from a camping trip last
weekend. He didn't eat much at all during that trip, but that's not
abnormal with him when we travel. We were home 2 nights before we
had to leave again for the holidays. Both of those nights he vomited
after he ate. He refused food completely the Wednesday night before
Thanksgiving after we had just gotten in from the 8 hour road trip,
which didn't totally surprise me. On Thanksgiving, I fed him some
ground beef (which is his ultimate favorite) that I found in my
parents freezer and he ate almost two pounds of it happily and kept
it down. Friday we made the 8 hour trip back home and that night he
refused food again, which I expected. Both Saturday and Sunday he
vomited up his raw meals (chicken one night, pork the other), but was
able to keep down some canned mackeral and a whole egg. Monday night
he had pork and kept it down, but tonight I offered beef brisket and
once again he has vomited it back up. He had a snack this morning of
the canned mackeral and egg, and he kept that down. It really
appears that it's the raw food that's causing him a problem and I
can't understand it. The meat has to be fine because 3 other pets
are eating it without problems.
The temperature of the meat could be making a difference, but so far
I've tried it frozen, room temp and warmed under running water with
no change.
Portion sizes. I've tried giving him 1/2 a meal and then giving him
the rest about 30 minutes later. I never actually got to the second
meal because he vomited after the first one. He has not had anything
at all that isn't familiar to him in the last 3 or 4 months (he was
offered rabbit but refused to even so much as taste it).

Other than the vomiting, he is acting perfectly normal. He has been
having bowel movements normally, though they are smaller, urinating
normally, happily taking his daily walks, etc. I know that he's not
going to starve to death from missing a few meals and he doesn't
appear to have lost much if any weight, but it bothers me that this
has become a recurring issue. Does anyone have any ideas that I
might not have thought of (and I'll admit there are probably many,
that's why I'm here!). I appreciate any and all thoughts. Thanks,
Rachelle in MS

Messages in this topic (2)
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11b. Re: Vomiting after meals
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:42 pm ((PST))

On Nov 27, 2007, at 5:21 PM, sphynxlover2 wrote:
> .,....Other than the vomiting, he is acting perfectly normal. He
> has been
> having bowel movements normally, though they are smaller, urinating
> normally, happily taking his daily walks, etc. I know that he's not
> going to starve to death from missing a few meals and he doesn't
> appear to have lost much if any weight, but it bothers me that this
> has become a recurring issue. Does anyone have any ideas that I
> might not have thought of (and I'll admit there are probably many,
> that's why I'm here!). I appreciate any and all thoughts. Thanks,
> Rachelle in MS

Does he, or are you letting him, eat it back up?

Do these vomited meals have bone?

Does he vomit after activity, like an evening walk?

Has he had recent vaccines, and what is his vaccine history generally?

How's his water consumption? Does he drink a lot after meals?

Pardon all the questions...

ginny and Tomo, the giant Amstaff

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (2)
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12. Dave Mech and his wolves
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:35 pm ((PST))

He came to my classroom back in the 1970's when I was teaching at Sunset
Hill Elementary School in Plymouth, MN. Two wolves came with and were
let loose in one of our courtyards while my students were allowed to pet
them and learn about them. Fascinating. It is when I first thought
about raw food for dogs.
Sai

========================================

Dr. L. David Mech has been studying
wolves for decades, and has published many books and articles on
wolves and their diets.

Dr. Wayne's website:
http://www.eeb.ucla.edu/indivfaculty.php?FacultyKey=501

Dr. Mech's website:
http://www.davemech.org/biography.html

Messages in this topic (1)
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13a. Re: more on turkey wings and reply to Chris
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:36 pm ((PST))

Chris, Thanks for the great reply, it is mucho appreciated!

As to the toothless inquiry...I have several older hairless Cresteds...and the hairless ones in particular tend to loose teeth even before they get older...so once they are older, we very rarely have teeth "in the house", lol I have one boy, who I was just joking tonite that his mouth looks like a goats...he has only about 4 teeth on top (only one of them a molar) and then less than half of what he should have on the bottom. LOlLPretty funny looking. Then I have my old gal, Cricket, who has at last count, 4 teeth left in her whole head, but scatted around thru out just the front part of her mouth, and are sorta hodgepodge, just "stuck" in there at weird angels, so they kind of stick out sometimes, she is a real snagglepuss, :-) I have noticed a tendancy in this breed for the older kids to have a few teeth in front and a molar or 2 in the back and they loose everything in between. ;-)
This is a very interesting breed, and I ADORE them!!!!

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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Messages in this topic (4)
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14. Beef Heart? and other meats :)
Posted by: "redangelbordeaux" Erika@redangelbordeaux.com redangelbordeaux
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:06 pm ((PST))

I just picked up a load of meat today.

40# Turkey necks. I was so happy to find out that they were
individually wrapped! Do they always come this way?

40# super score of lamb brest for only .99 a lb!

60# beef hearts all frozen together in a solid block :( now
defrosting in my bathtub, lol.

Anyway I was noticing that the beef heart has quite a bit a fat on
it and also has part of the artery attached. My main questiona are:

Should I trim the fat or leave it on and serve it up as is?

Is the artery portion a source or cartelidge that is good to feed to
a dog with displasia problems?

Is it ok to feed the beef heart as the "meaty" portion of most meals
and the turkey necks and lamb breast(bone in) as the RMB portion of
the meal?

Thanks in advance!
Erika

Messages in this topic (1)
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