[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12329

There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Section of deer where it was shot...
From: woofwoofgrrl
1b. Re: Section of deer where it was shot...
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: Section of deer where it was shot...
From: carnesbill

2a. Re: Volume of stools?
From: Yasuko herron
2b. Re: Volume of stools?
From: glamour.cupcakes
2c. Re: Volume of stools?
From: Laurie Swanson
2d. Re: Volume of stools?
From: Andrea

3a. Re: Poultry Backs
From: costrowski75
3b. Re: Poultry Backs
From: Morledzep@aol.com

4a. hookworms??
From: Heidi
4b. Re: hookworms??
From: Sandee Lee
4c. Re: hookworms??
From: Casey Post
4d. Re: hookworms??
From: connie
4e. Re: hookworms??
From: tammi_floccare
4f. Re: hookworms??
From: judy tallant
4g. Re: hookworms??
From: Dawn Falcone

5a. Re: HELP A FIRST TIMER....
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

6a. Re: Chihuahua Gulping + Choking -- Ideas?
From: delcaste

7. Beef Shanks?
From: ncrnrgrl

8a. Re: De-feathering poultry
From: Rebecca Little
8b. Re: De-feathering poultry
From: Vom Eishenblick Rottweilers

Messages
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1a. Section of deer where it was shot...
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:01 pm ((PST))

I'm getting a neck roast from someone at work - apparently the deer was
shot in the neck and they didn't want to mess with it...
Is this okay to feed are will there be shards hiding in the meat that I
won't be able to find when I'm cutting it into smaller pieces?

Thanks!
Christine

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: Section of deer where it was shot...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:24 pm ((PST))

woofwoofgrrl <cmc4lists1@...> wrote:
> Is this okay to feed are will there be shards hiding in the meat that
I
> won't be able to find when I'm cutting it into smaller pieces?
*****
Well, I'm not quite sure I understand why you want to cut up that
roast, but yes, you should be able to find shards if they exist. I've
fed shot up vension and the bone damage wasn't that widespread. What I
did find though was utterly pulverized flesh. Jelly flesh. Not pretty.

Still quite feedable though.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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1c. Re: Section of deer where it was shot...
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:42 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, woofwoofgrrl <cmc4lists1@...> wrote:
>
> I'm getting a neck roast from someone at work - apparently the deer
was
> shot in the neck and they didn't want to mess with it...

The only thing that I would be concerned about is if the bullet is
still in the neck. It should have gone all the way through but I
would look closely at it and see. Other than that, feed it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Volume of stools?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:12 pm ((PST))

>Foxy's stools have been normal, although smaller (yay!), but Sophie's are not only runny, >which I kind of expected, but much less in volume. She was pooping 3-4 BIG poops a >day on Wellness kibble, so the decrease has been pretty dramatic. She is a 20 lb. Sheltie >puppy, approaching 5 months, and is fed twice a day, most of a chicken quarter at one
>meal, a bit less at the other.

Hi. Since I switched my dog just about 6 months ago,little over 1 year old,so,my guess could be wrong but why not trying feeding around 3 times a day ;spreading out the amount of daily intake to 3 tiomes,and each meal is smaller quantity in one sitting than the same one sitting feeding she gets now.

Runny poo is either too much meal in one sitting,too much fat than one can handle or just simply need more bone to meal but since puppy,andrecently switched to raw diet,I thought maybe too much food at one sitting for her.But I think otherswho actually raised puppy with raw may help you better.

Rawfed dogs poo get small because digested pretty good and dog goes potty infrequently for poo. My dog used to poo twice a day in average,but after switched to raw,she goes one per day in average but now and then,she has no poo in day.I would not worry about it.

If smaller food amount per sitiing was not solving the problem,try skin off the chicken,sometimes,it helps if dog had prob in fat% in meal.

good luck,

yassy

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Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Volume of stools?
Posted by: "glamour.cupcakes" glamour.cupcakes@yahoo.com glamour.cupcakes
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:49 pm ((PST))

I came on here with the intention of asking a poop question, too. My
dog hasn't gone poop in 2 days...is this normal or should I be
concerned? She used to go at least twice per day on kibbles. I keep
waiting and waiting and waiting...but nothing!

- Kay L.

Messages in this topic (5)
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2c. Re: Volume of stools?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:40 am ((PST))

That is not unusual for my dog to go a day or two or sometimes even 3
without pooping. Just depends on what I'm feeding, how much, and how
often. I'd give it another day or two. Dogs definitely do poop less
on raw because most of the food is digestible and usable. Are you
feeding a lot of bone, though? That can cause constipation. That's
probably not your issue just within 2 days, but for your own peace of
mind, if you've been feeding boney items, you might want to feed
boneless tomorrow to encourage some "movement." Don't go overboard
trying to get things going, though, or you'll just end up with the
other end of the spectrum. :-)

Laurie

Messages in this topic (5)
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2d. Re: Volume of stools?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:45 am ((PST))

It isn't unusual for newly switched dogs to take several days to
produce their first raw food poo. I guess the body takes all that it
can from those first meals of real food. She'll go soon, don't worry.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "glamour.cupcakes"
<glamour.cupcakes@...> wrote:
>
> I came on here with the intention of asking a poop question, too. My
> dog hasn't gone poop in 2 days...is this normal or should I be
> concerned? She used to go at least twice per day on kibbles. I keep
> waiting and waiting and waiting...but nothing!

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: Poultry Backs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:16 pm ((PST))

Morledzep@... wrote:
> the Ralph's store at Towngate parts out the fresh minimally processed
birds
> shortly after thanksgiving and christmas and sells the parts CHEAP.
*****
Oh fine. Do I want to know about this?
Ralph's died a quiet death up here a few years ago.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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3b. Re: Poultry Backs
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:52 am ((PST))

In a message dated 11/28/2007 6:16:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Chriso75@AOL.COM writes:

Oh fine. Do I want to know about this?
Ralph's died a quiet death up here a few years ago.

***lol, if there is any left this summer when we drive up there i'll bring
you some..

IF it'll make ya happy.. lol.
Catherine R.

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
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Messages in this topic (9)
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4a. hookworms??
Posted by: "Heidi" troopob@yahoo.com troopob
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:28 pm ((PST))

Can a dog get hookworms from the raw meat? Everything that I have
been feeding for the last 8 months to my 3 dogs has been bought at a
grocery store or frozen for months/ years. My 10 Year old corgi
(Obi) started getting really itchy about 2 1/2 weeks ago - along his
back and I thought he just had the winter dry skin, so have him a
good brushing. Over the next several days, but never really at the
same time (and he always was eating and drinking like a champ), he
had diarrhea, vomited his dinner a couple times, had some trouble
breathing one day, had a really itchy face one day, acted like he
had a little hind-end discoordination for a day or so. Then, I was
scratching along his back a couple days ago and he had two little
holes (each the size of a pencil lead) about a quarter inch apart
from each other high up on his side - they were scabbed over and
there was another set on the other side. I thought at first he had
gotten bitten by a snake (too cold and late in year), Black widow -
perhaps (all the symptoms fit).

But today he was still itchy and there was a fresh hole in his skin
about one inch from the other set and I could see something small
and white poking out and back in, out and in. GROSS!!

Any ideas?? He's going to the vet tomorrow with fecal sample in
hand (I mean bag), but I'd like to be ready to not blame the raw
diet.

Thanks for any help or suggestions,
Heidi and Obi

Messages in this topic (7)
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4b. Re: hookworms??
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:42 pm ((PST))

Heidi,

No, hookworms do not come from raw meat. There is no reason to tell your
vet what they have been eating, is there?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Heidi" <troopob@yahoo.com>

Can a dog get hookworms from the raw meat? Everything that I have
been feeding for the last 8 months to my 3 dogs has been bought at a
grocery store or frozen for months/ years.

Messages in this topic (7)
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4c. Re: hookworms??
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:00 pm ((PST))

> Can a dog get hookworms from the raw meat?

Not that I know of. Hookworms come from soil as I recall. Skin infections
of hookworms would be a result of direct contact with larvae.

Ok, I looked it up and your dog can become infected with hookworms if they
eat a rodent, flea, or cockroach that was infected.

> But today he was still itchy and there was a fresh hole in his skin
> about one inch from the other set and I could see something small
> and white poking out and back in, out and in. GROSS!!
>
> Any ideas?? He's going to the vet tomorrow with fecal sample in
> hand (I mean bag)

Good plan! I think this needs a vet to see it to diagnose.

> but I'd like to be ready to not blame the raw
> diet.

Well, first course of action is to diagnose. If it is hookworm, and the vet
says that it's the result of feeding raw, all you have to do is say
something to the effect of, "So you've never seen a kibble fed dog with
hookworm ever, then?" Because surely if raw meat was the vector, then
feeding kibble would certainly prevent it, right? Besides, a little bit of
research on hookworm lifecycles should put to rest any hookworm/raw
connection in your mind.

Just be sure that the vet is looking at THE DOG and not the diet. Good
luck!

Casey

Messages in this topic (7)
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4d. Re: hookworms??
Posted by: "connie" justbullies@hotmail.com bullienut
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:49 pm ((PST))

Hi Heidi,
When I worked for a vet we would see this once in awhile..but usually
only one hole and it has a grub worm in it. That is what the vet called
them "grub worms". Said Cattle usually will get them from laying in the
pastures. Once in awhile a dog will get one. We would lance the opening
bigger and pick the grub out. He would clean it and put them on
antibiotics for a few days. I never seen a dog with more than one at a
time tho. But sure sounds like the same thing.
~connie~
www.justbullies.com

Messages in this topic (7)
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4e. Re: hookworms??
Posted by: "tammi_floccare" tammijo@mac.com tammi_floccare
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:49 pm ((PST))

I think it may be a bot fly - fly larvae. Be careful to not squish it if you try to squeeze it out as
an infection will develop for sure. You can put some rubbing alcohol on a piece of gauze and
tape it over the skin holes to kill the worms - then you should be able to squeeze them out.
Your vet can also do it for you. I have heard some vets say they are from the dog ingesting fly
larvae and they burrow from the inside out, and others say they are deposited from the
outside, which I think is more likely. You can find videos of people removing botfly larvae
from their own skin on youtube.
Tammi

Messages in this topic (7)
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4f. Re: hookworms??
Posted by: "judy tallant" judy@tallant.com judyltallant
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:49 pm ((PST))

I saw this on the tummy of a baby bunny once. A certain type of fly
laid an egg in the skin and that was the larvae eating it's way out.
It was gross, but the bunny was no worse for the wear. We caught it
when checking over a litter on it's way to a pre-show vet check.
Bunnies were also raw fed - but not carnivores. 8^)

On Nov 28, 2007, at 7:21 PM, Heidi wrote:

> But today he was still itchy and there was a fresh hole in his skin
> about one inch from the other set and I could see something small
> and white poking out and back in, out and in. GROSS!!

Judy Tallant
Snohomish, Wa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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4g. Re: hookworms??
Posted by: "Dawn Falcone" pippin_the_grey@sbcglobal.net fuyu_ko_domo
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:49 pm ((PST))

I missed the original message, so I don't know where the hole is, but it sounds to me like you are describing cuterebra.

Casey Post <mikken@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> But today he was still itchy and there was a fresh hole in his skin
> about one inch from the other set and I could see something small
> and white poking out and back in, out and in. GROSS!!
>
> Any ideas?? He's going to the vet tomorrow with fecal sample in
> hand (I mean bag)

Good plan! I think this needs a vet to see it to diagnose.

Dawn

You can always read my latest work on my Spoiled Ink Writer Profile http://www.spoiledink.com/fuyukodomo

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Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. Re: HELP A FIRST TIMER....
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:49 pm ((PST))

Welcome first timer,
Sounds like a great plan. Now, keep to the chicken, only go whole, (your dogs could handle it) that way you have the meat, bone and organs, all there for you and the dogs, only cut it to the size you need, and it's cheaper that way, but use what you have. Toss the turkey, not enough meat there, maybe use it for treats, and same with the marrow bones(not good for the teeth), not for meals.
Bones should only be about 10%, organs 10%, the rest meat. And two weeks is a wonderful start, that should give you a great idea on your baby with the allergies. I'd be willing to bet it's only to kibble based foods too:)
Then you can try any other kind of protien you like, and don't be affraid of the exotic too, we love the rabbits here:) and even some emu, mmmmmmgood!
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: Chihuahua Gulping + Choking -- Ideas?
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:40 am ((PST))

> Tonight, I had a really scary few minutes with my Chihuahua. She
was
> eating a couple of chicken gizzards (partially thawed) and she
> choked for a few minutes, all the while making high-pitched noises
> I've never heard from her before. She is 5 years old.
>
> She has been a gulper ever since I fed her some pre-made raw mixes
a
> couple years ago (BIG mistake). So now she swallows everything she
> thinks she can eat without so much as a chew. Thus, she has caused
> lots of grief in me with choking every few days, but tonight's
> scenario was just really, really frightening.
>
> Do you have any tips for me on how to deal with a tiny gulper?

Hi Kay I know how you feel, I have a gulper that has choked. She's a
pug. I've started to feed her an entire cornish hen, a whole rabbit,
a goat or lamb leg that I've had cut into 7/8 inch long piece. She
needed to have complicated food that she had to rip and tear at and
figure out how to "get" at the meaty part. If I see that she's eaten
a WHOLE lot, I take it up and feed the remaining food to the othe pug
or put the leftover in the fridge and feed it the next day. On days
that I feed light, i.e., turkey hearts or chicken gizzards, or liver,
I cut them into bite size pieces (she's choked on a turkey heart) and
spread around her where she eats so she has to eat them one at a
time. Or just give them to her by hand. Try feeding big and you'll
rest easier. Good luck and let us know how she does.

Silvina

Messages in this topic (8)
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7. Beef Shanks?
Posted by: "ncrnrgrl" jcraver1@nc.rr.com ncrnrgrl
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:44 am ((PST))

Hi all,
I recently got on a mailing list for a small local farm - they are
selling beef shanks right now for a $1/pound - and I'm embarassed to
admit I'm not sure what part of the cow this is - and if it's a good
piece of beef to feed large (German Shepherd) dogs.
A little help?

Thanks!
Jen C.

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Re: De-feathering poultry
Posted by: "Rebecca Little" pbgs@delhitel.net canucme278
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:05 am ((PST))

I have another question along these lines. When we got free goose we gutted them did we have to? Also for the de feathering we just skinned them it was the easiest way to do it since we would have plucked till we were blue in the face!
Rebecca Little
Peakes Brook German Shepherds

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8b. Re: De-feathering poultry
Posted by: "Vom Eishenblick Rottweilers" vomeishenblick@hotmail.com vomeishenblick
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:38 am ((PST))

Hi, we live on a bird farm and feed raw as well. if you want to
de-feather your birds you should do it right after they have been
killed before they cool down. and you will need a huge pot of
boiling water about 175 degrees for geese. it has to be hot. but
don't be fussy about it they are for dogs afterall. I have given my
dogs whole birds with feather and all. the whole thing. and they
love it. they have teeth to remove the feathers. and it wil give
them something to do as well. and yes they will eat intestines .

Brenda Dumesnil

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Rebecca Little" <pbgs@...> wrote:
>
>
> I have another question along these lines. When we got free
goose we gutted them did we have to? Also for the de feathering we
just skinned them it was the easiest way to do it since we would
have plucked till we were blue in the face!
> Rebecca Little
> Peakes Brook German Shepherds
>

http://sites.centralpets.com/mammals/peakesbrookgsd/index.html
>
>
>
>
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>
> our award-winning
>
> e-commerce tools.
>
> Dog Groups
> on Yahoo! Groups
>
> Share pictures &
>
> stories about dogs.
>
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> a day from Yahoo!
>
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>
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>

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