[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12336

There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Having a Sheep Processed
From: sheepandakom
1b. Re: Having a Sheep Processed
From: merril Woolf

2a. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
From: sarahfalkner
2b. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
From: Shirley

3a. Freezing for two weeks for parasites.
From: Maria
3b. Re: Freezing for two weeks for parasites.
From: costrowski75

4a. Hallo everyone!
From: Annette
4b. Re: Hallo everyone!
From: costrowski75
4c. Re: Hallo everyone!
From: SLib700@aol.com

5. Something to give during birth....
From: Doguefan@aol.com

6a. meat being Processed- no intestines?
From: Michelle R
6b. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
From: costrowski75
6c. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
From: carnesbill
6d. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
From: Morledzep@aol.com
6e. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
From: Karen Oleson

7a. Re: certain meats cause panting
From: linoleum5017

8a. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
From: L.Tucker

9a. Chris... no intestines?
From: Michelle R
9b. Re: Chris... no intestines?
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski

10a. Blood in the stool
From: m td
10b. Re: Blood in the stool
From: Pauline Blondeau
10c. Re: Blood in the stool
From: Patti DeBono

Messages
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1a. Having a Sheep Processed
Posted by: "sheepandakom" sheepandakom@yahoo.com sheepandakom
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:20 pm ((PST))

I am looking to have a sheep butchered for the dogs. It's an older
sheep and while I love lamb, I'm not a big fan of mutton. So, I've
decided to have the entire sheep processed for the dogs. Up until
now, I've bought all the meat I feed, so I don't know exactly what to
tell the butcher to do. Has anyone had an animal processed with dogs
in mind? If so, how do you tell them to cut the meat? What should I
specifically ask to have saved for the dogs and what should I tell
them I don't want? Are there any concerns with the bones of an adult
(3 yrs) sheep being too much for the dogs?

Thanks!
Emily

Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: Having a Sheep Processed
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:20 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sheepandakom" <sheepandakom@...> wrote:
>
> I am looking to have a sheep butchered for the dogs. It's an older
> sheep and while I love lamb, I'm not a big fan of mutton. So, I've
> decided to have the entire sheep processed for the dogs. Up until
> now, I've bought all the meat I feed, so I don't know exactly what to
> tell the butcher to do. Has anyone had an animal processed with dogs
> in mind? If so, how do you tell them to cut the meat? What should I
> specifically ask to have saved for the dogs and what should I tell
> them I don't want? Are there any concerns with the bones of an adult
> (3 yrs) sheep being too much for the dogs?
>
> Thanks!
> Emily

Mutton makes for good stews etc. You might want to keep a few cuts for yourself.

Ask for everything except the intestines and hide. Nothing you can't use on a sheep.

I'm envious. Sheep is good food.

Merril

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
Posted by: "sarahfalkner" Sarah.Falkner@gmail.com sarahfalkner
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:54 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "marclre" <marclre@...> wrote:
>
> "Carrots don't contain sugar. I'm diabetic and they don't contain any carbohydrates to be
> counted into my diet."

Hi Evie, yes you are quite right you don't need to worry about (average servings of raw)
carrots for yourself, as a human diabetic, because:

"The glycemic index alone will not predict the impact on blood sugar of a food because it
does not consider the actual amount of carbohydrate in the food. In other words, even if
the carbohydrate from a food is absorbed very quickly it will not have a large affect on
blood sugar if the food does not contain much carbohydrate. For example, a carrot has a
high glycemic index (131%) but because the amount of actual carbohydrate in a ½ cup
serving of carrots is low (only 8 grams), the glycemic load or affect on blood sugar of the
carrots is low (10)."

From http://www.bu.edu/nfc/article_reducing.html

So you're right, it's a little more complicated than just "sugar" or "no sugar," but at any
rate, keep on eating and enjoying your carrots!

Regardless of glycemic load on human blood sugar, carbohydrates and plant-based foods
in a canine/feline carnivore's diet obviously have different effects than they do in a human
omnivore's... anyway, thought you might be interested in why YOU can still eat carrots
anyway!

All best,

Sarah, hominid
Henry & Ivan, felidae
Quercus & Ilex, mustelidae

Messages in this topic (11)
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2b. Re: Mixing veggies with meat
Posted by: "Shirley" ssthunderpony@yahoo.com ssthunderpony
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:38 pm ((PST))

>
> Getting off topic here; but felt I needed to comment. Carrots don't
> contain sugar.

########## WRONG-O
Carrots ,as any other thing that grows without a face or a Mommy are
a carbohydrate hence sugar ! There are only 3 true basic food groups
Protein, fat and carbhohydrates ( aka sugar)

HTH,
Shirley

Messages in this topic (11)
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3a. Freezing for two weeks for parasites.
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:55 pm ((PST))

Tomorrow marks Skip's first year with us. On Saturday the 17Th we got a
fresh (not the freshest, but it was whole roadkill) deer. I would like
to give Skip a big huge hunk in the morning but I butchered it the
night I got it so it was probably completely frozen on the next day, if
I thaw some Tonight it would have been frozen for 12 days total. Would
it still be OK? This is the first wild food that I've given except for
some other deer that someone had in there freezer for a year or two.
All the other meat that I've has been farm raised and dewormed or fed
DE.

Thank you!
Maria

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Freezing for two weeks for parasites.
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:49 pm ((PST))

"Maria" <plava_93@...> wrote:
On Saturday the 17Th we got a
> fresh (not the freshest, but it was whole roadkill) deer. I would
like
> to give Skip a big huge hunk in the morning but I butchered it the
> night I got it so it was probably completely frozen on the next day,
if
> I thaw some Tonight it would have been frozen for 12 days total.
Would
> it still be OK?
*****
If of those 12 days total the deer was frozen solid for a week, you're
good to go.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Hallo everyone!
Posted by: "Annette" SLib700@aol.com annettedeutsch
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:21 pm ((PST))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!

I'm new to this group,I got a longhaired dachshund and she weighs about
26 pounds and is 8 years old. I just got done reading a lot of archives
but so far I'm still not sure how much chicken for example I should
feed her to start with.I'd be grateful if I could find out
approximately how many ounces to give her.Thanks in advance! Annette.

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: Hallo everyone!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:55 pm ((PST))

"Annette" <SLib700@...> wrote:
>
I got a longhaired dachshund and she weighs about
> 26 pounds and is 8 years old. I just got done reading a lot of
archives
> but so far I'm still not sure how much chicken for example I should
> feed her to start with.
*****
Going by the numbers, a 26lb dog that looks good wearing those 26
pounds would likely eat between half a pound and three-quarters of a
pound of food a day, whatever you choose to feed, however you choose to
parcel it out.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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4c. Re: Hallo everyone!
Posted by: "SLib700@aol.com" SLib700@aol.com annettedeutsch
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:03 am ((PST))

Thanks Chris for that Info! Annette.

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5. Something to give during birth....
Posted by: "Doguefan@aol.com" Doguefan@aol.com knoxkennels
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:11 pm ((PST))

Hello everyone.? I have a DDB confirmed pregnant and she looks to have quite a few.? She is 4 1/2 weeks along and she is eating everything in sight!? I am going to let her continue to eat however she likes and we will see what she does with the bone towards the end.? Often, this breed requires a c-section because of the size of the puppies; but mostly because the size of the litters.? I am going to let her try on her own, and I will be ready to get her to a vet if problems seem to arise.? I have read on several species appropriate diet list that there are a few things that some give to the bitch during the whelping process and right after birth to help her keep her energy up.? Does anyone have any suggestions??
Any advice is much appreciated, I want to be as ready as I can be!

Chelsea
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Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. meat being Processed- no intestines?
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:19 pm ((PST))

Ok, I'll bite, I have seen a few posts regarding the process question, and they have said "no intestines" in regards to everything. When you watch wild dogs, or the big cats take down a kill, the first thing they do is gut it and eat the yummies......so why then is it suggested to not keep intestines for the dogs?
Just still trying to get this all right and organized in my brain. :-)

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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6b. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:09 pm ((PST))

Michelle R <crested_dog8@...> wrote:
>When you watch wild dogs, or the big cats take down a kill, the
first thing they do is gut it and eat the yummies......so why then is
it suggested to not keep intestines for the dogs?
*****
Um, have you actually seen this happen or are you reporting what
others say they have seen? I suspect you are drawing conclusions
based on what you think you see, rather than what is really going on.

While wolves (and big cats I guess, but I can't say for sure) are
likely to go in via the unprotected flesh of the underbelly, they are
not going for the intestines, nor even the stomach; they are going
for the liver and heart--and for the unprotected flesh. The
underbelly is the easiest access to the real "yummies", not just the
internal stuff that's closest.

I believe it was Dr. Mech who wrote that people often confuse the
belly with the stomach.

Smaller prey like rabbits and other small game and birds may be
completely eaten or may not; but it's a sure bet that the digestive
apparatus of small game is smaller and more easily eaten than the
digestive plumbing of large ruminants.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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6c. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:14 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Michelle R <crested_dog8@...> wrote:
>
> so why then is it suggested to not keep
> intestines for the dogs?
> Just still trying to get this all right and organized in my brain.

Yes, predators often open up the belly of the freshly killed prey
first. However what they are usually going for is liver, heart,
stomach, pancreas, etc. I don't think they eat the intestines.

I know when I feed my dogs whole rabbits or when they catch a rabbit,
the only reminants of meal is a small neatly stacked little ball of
intestines along with stomach contents strowed all about.

Its the same with my cats even with mice and rats. They don't eat the
stomach or intestines. Just a little pile of intestines and a stomach
laying beside it. I find these little reminants all the time around
my house both inside and out.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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6d. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:57 pm ((PST))

Yes, predators often open up the belly of the freshly killed prey
first. However what they are usually going for is liver, heart,
stomach, pancreas, etc. I don't think they eat the intestines.

***the reason wild wolves and other carnivorous predators open the stomach
first is because that is where the prey animal's hide is the softest and easiest
to rip open. NOT because the intestines, or organs are high priority items..

Catherine R.

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6e. Re: meat being Processed- no intestines?
Posted by: "Karen Oleson" olesoncrew@verizon.net flyballsanc
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 4:05 am ((PST))

I'm new to the list, and certainly don't want to step on any toes. I have just a wee bit of experience here that might shed some light.

Having worked 3 years during college on a kill-floor, having processed a few different species (beef, sheep, swine, deer, pheasant, and lots-o-chickens), having taken Meat Animal Science/ Food Safety courses I offer the following.

In my opinion there is nothing "wrong" with eating/saving the intestines. Inestines make fabulous meat casings when washed. Raw and unwashed they are full of bacteria, partially digested food, and porous. They can also be full of intestinal parasites. The alimentary canal (guts) are the first to be removed when eviscerating an animal. They are removed carefully so as not to contaminate the carcass with their contents. As time goes on, the intestines start to 'blow up' as the aerobic bacteria continue to create gases that now do not have a means to escape. The intestines are also very heavy. As college students, it could take 2 (sometimes 3) of us to lift the stomach of a cow into the ofal barrel. We, as consumers can purchase the contents of a rumen (part of the stomach of a rumanant) and feed it to our animals as tripe.

Personally, I would hesitate to ask for all of the intestines unless I was going to be right there grabbing them as they fell out. I would however consider asking for the rumen and it's contents......I'd supply the plastic lined box.

Respectfully,

Karen O

PS: When my dogs eat whole rabbit, they eat the WHOLE rabbit, head to tail, not even a hair left-over.

----- Original Message -----
From: Michelle R
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 10:34 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] meat being Processed- no intestines?

Ok, I'll bite, I have seen a few posts regarding the process question, and they have said "no intestines" in regards to everything. When you watch wild dogs, or the big cats take down a kill, the first thing they do is gut it and eat the yummies......so why then is it suggested to not keep intestines for the dogs?
Just still trying to get this all right and organized in my brain. :-)

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds

http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

___________________________________

.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. Re: certain meats cause panting
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:20 pm ((PST))

My dog has the same reaction, only it is to goat! It's not something
that can be fed in small portions, as a leg is a leg, a shoulder a
shoulder. I've just resolved not to buy any more. Pork though, gee,
it is indeed very cheap compared to everything else except chicken
where I come from. Maybe some tolerance could be built up?

If you find a solution, please do tell!
Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...>
wrote:
>
> I was wondering if ceratin foods, such as pork would make a dog hot
and panting. My dogs have been raw fed for almost a year now. Every
time I feed a pork shoulder the dogs pant all night long.

Messages in this topic (9)
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8a. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
Posted by: "L.Tucker" ltucker@sympatico.ca love_rescue_dogs
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:21 pm ((PST))

>
> > "We are still researching the best way to feed and I am
> awaiting the arrival of Susan Johnson's book because I
> suspect we may be feeding too many RMBs (turkey
> necks). Muscle meat seems to be a challenge for us as
> it is more expensive than RMBs and we are still not
> sure what cuts to give other than ground meat which
> apparently does not give enough of a workout so to
> speak."

We adopted our Greyhound in June and started feeding him RMB's shortly
thereafter. We live in Newmarket and lately I have found good deals on
Pork Picnic roasts and chicken legs with backs attached. Both at
$.99/lb. I also just ordered a case of human grade beef in strips
through the RawFeeding group on Yahoo at $1.33/lb. There was also
turkey meat at a very good price. I also watch the reduced counters
for any meat on sale. Price Chopper often reduces their meats at our
local store around Wednesdays.
I think our Grey does well with RMB's and tends towards looser pooh if
he doesn't get enough bone in his diet. I'd say chicken quarters &
legs with backs attached are his main dietary item and then roasts,
chicken backs, pork riblets, ground meat, turkey necks, raw tripe,
fish, etc...

Leanne Tucker
Newmarket, Ontario

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9a. Chris... no intestines?
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:58 pm ((PST))

Im reporting from what Ive seen on Animal Planet... :-) They always gut them and you see them dragging out long intestines and chomping...it most certainly seems a prize for them.

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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9b. Re: Chris... no intestines?
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 3:23 am ((PST))

they aren't really eating the CONTENTS of te intestines, they are eating the lining. They actually go through the trouble of spilling the contents out so they can eat just the lining.
Mallory


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10a. Blood in the stool
Posted by: "m td" mtd885@yahoo.com mtd885
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 4:39 am ((PST))

I've been feeding our 14 wk old Golden Doodle Raw for
two weeks now. She has been fine with all
chicken,turkey,pork,beef. I assumed her runny stool
was due to the switch from the breeders kibble however
I noticed blood in the runny stool and am concerned
for her health. She does not seem in any kind of
distress and continues to chow down everything I give
her. I do notice a significant decrease in stool
volume and water consumption since the switch as well.
Should I get her to a vet? What is the experience of
others in this situation. Thanks all Michael

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10b. Re: Blood in the stool
Posted by: "Pauline Blondeau" pblondeau46@gmail.com pblondeau46
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:03 am ((PST))

I would not be concerned with less stool. That is one of the perks of raw
feeding. The dogs absorb more of the nutrients and so less stool. That is
good!!! The other thing is that the meat itself supplies water to the dog so
that they don't have the need to drink so much. That will adjust in time. I
find the salty dog treats are when makes them drink more.

As for the bloody stool. I have seen the odd red in my dogs stool. It was in
my pup's stool when he first started raw. I think it was that he was not
used to digesting the raw and some of it was coming out the other end. I'm
not sure of that, but it was so small an amount not to be worried. It went
away on it's own.

How much blood are we talking here???

Pauline

On Dec 1, 2007 7:27 AM, m td <mtd885@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I've been feeding our 14 wk old Golden Doodle Raw for
> two weeks now. She has been fine with all
> chicken,turkey,pork,beef. I assumed her runny stool
> was due to the switch from the breeders kibble however
> I noticed blood in the runny stool and am concerned
> for her health. She does not seem in any kind of
> distress and continues to chow down everything I give
> her. I do notice a significant decrease in stool
> volume and water consumption since the switch as well.
> Should I get her to a vet? What is the experience of
> others in this situation. Thanks all Michael
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>

--
Pauline xo

Yiddish Proverb

"Don't be so humble - you are not that great."
Golda Meir (1898-1978) to a visiting diplomat

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10c. Re: Blood in the stool
Posted by: "Patti DeBono" debono_k9@yahoo.com debono_k9
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:03 am ((PST))

My German Shepherd used to have bloody stool when she got diarrhea because it was so intense that it irritated her intestines to the point of bleeding. That was when she was on kibble, since I switched to raw, I have not seen any blood in her stool. Blood in the stool can be nothing or a big problem. How much blood is in her stool? It could very easily be the big switch from raw to kibble is a lot on her little body. My dog would have very bloody stool, as well as just passing pure blood. Could she have been recently stressed? I know some dogs after a stressful event or change can have some blood in their stool.

Patti and Hailey

----- Original Message ----
From: m td <mtd885@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2007 7:27:14 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Blood in the stool

I've been feeding our 14 wk old Golden Doodle Raw for
two weeks now. She has been fine with all
chicken,turkey, pork,beef. I assumed her runny stool
was due to the switch from the breeders kibble however
I noticed blood in the runny stool and am concerned
for her health. She does not seem in any kind of
distress and continues to chow down everything I give
her. I do notice a significant decrease in stool
volume and water consumption since the switch as well.
Should I get her to a vet? What is the experience of
others in this situation. Thanks all Michael

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