[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12091

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
From: Michelle Grabert
1b. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
From: costrowski75
1d. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
From: ginny wilken

2a. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
From: Laura Atkinson
2b. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
From: Michelle Grabert
2c. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
From: costrowski75
2d. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
From: ginny wilken
2e. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
From: Michelle Grabert

3a. Re: bones in poo!
From: costrowski75

4a. ADMIN/Re:Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
From: costrowski75
4b. ADMIN/Re:Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
From: costrowski75

5a. newbie - few questions
From: Heather
5b. Re: newbie - few questions
From: carnesbill

6a. Thin Dog
From: CRYSTAL
6b. Re: Thin Dog
From: carnesbill
6c. Re: Thin Dog
From: cypressbunny

7a. Kate and Joey's 4th B-Day Party!!!!
From: Susanne MacLeod
7b. Re: Kate and Joey's 4th B-Day Party!!!!
From: cypressbunny
7c. Re: Kate and Joey's 4th B-Day Party!!!!
From: Susanne MacLeod

8a. Re: New member - probably silly question
From: girlndocs

9a. new to raw with a question
From: abeautiful3
9b. Re: new to raw with a question
From: Elizabeth

10a. What to do?
From: rottincherrie

11a. Re: raw meat only
From: linoleum5017

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
Posted by: "Michelle Grabert" chalienme@yahoo.com chalienme
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:48 pm ((PDT))

hmm, interesting , yet odd. Thanks mary. BTW, how do you trim a post? I am getting yelled at. I think,. michelle

Mary Whetsel <chickiboo@gmail.com> wrote: About feeding goldfish to cats... I had asked this question earlier on
rawcat (which if you are feeding cats raw, I highly recommend you join) and
got some positive feedback, but again that wasn't for a steady diet. I just
needed to get rid of some extras in my pond.

One of my cats did eat the head only of one of the larger fish (about 4
inches) but that was it. The rest of the fish didn't interest her at all.
On the other hand she loves other whole fish from the grocery store. I also
tried leaving them out overnight for the strays, and unlike other leavings,
they were never touched. I can't say what other cats might think, but mine
didn't seem to approve.

-Mary

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:44 pm ((PDT))

"brake4breyers832" <pebbles_diehl@...> wrote:
*****
> I would be leary about feeding goldfish bought from a pet store.
Most
> of them live in water that was treated to neutralize chemicals,
> chlorine, etc. and all the bottles I ever used said to not use it for
> fish that will be consumed.
*****
My guess is once they've been fully acclimated to their forever home
they will be or become suitable food. Seems like part of feeding a
species appropriate diet to a fish includes raising the fish in an
appropriate environment.

Probably more complicated than I know.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:51 pm ((PDT))

Michelle Grabert <chalienme@...> wrote:
>
> ya know I got to thinking more about the goldfish idea and it dawned
on me that back had fish tanks, I would have to add a few different
chemicals to the water for ph, algea, whatnot.
*****
I don't know how much you have to manipulate their environment. I
suspect adding chemicals to goldfish tanks is part of the kibble
mentality but I don't rightly know. If you were to create an
appropriate environment none of that might be necessary. I mean, carp
are ubiquitous, so clearly they get along somehow.

Is there such a place as a holistic fish list?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:29 pm ((PDT))

On Sep 28, 2007, at 4:51 PM, costrowski75 wrote:
> I don't know how much you have to manipulate their environment. I
> suspect adding chemicals to goldfish tanks is part of the kibble
> mentality but I don't rightly know. If you were to create an
> appropriate environment none of that might be necessary. I mean, carp
> are ubiquitous, so clearly they get along somehow.
>
> Is there such a place as a holistic fish list?
> Chris O

When's THIS thread going to Rawchat? Yes on the environment. Algae
doesn't get unnaturally out of hand in a nice, big, well-balanced
tank or pond. People don't like it because it grows on the glass and
ornaments. I remove mine physically, by scraping or scrubbing. Water
conditioners that neutralize chlorine and chloramines are safe and
get used up in the process. Watch out for the ones with plastic that
coats the fish's skin. Drugs should never be necessary in a good
environment.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:50 pm ((PDT))

Heck, I use Pill Pockets (tm) that I order or buy at PetSmart. Life's too
short to worry that hard about little things like what to wrap around a
pill.

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
Posted by: "Michelle Grabert" chalienme@yahoo.com chalienme
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:22 pm ((PDT))

hey, I had no idea you could get canned tripe..where do you get that>? michelle

meg_helmes <mhelmes@gmail.com> wrote: I have a few dogs needing medications.
> One is my Dal & he takes alot of medicines. He's old & sick & cranky!
> I usually give it in a ball of canned food but would like to give it in
> something raw based...I don't want to feed the canned crap any more.
> Hamburger? I am hearing alot more on a different list about feeding raw
> burger...

Trina-
My dog needs to take meds twice daily, and I use ground turkey
meatballs, ground hamburger, or canned ground tripe (brand name
Tripett). Ground shouldn't be the main of your dog's diet, but it
makes a great pill delivery system and kong stuffer (just freeze it!).
You can also use cheese, cream cheese, etc. It's not a huge part of my
dog's diet, so I don't worry about it too much. I put it in the treats
category.

~Meg & Ruby the wonderpup

---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:47 pm ((PDT))

Michelle Grabert <chalienme@...> wrote:
>
> hey, I had no idea you could get canned tripe..where do you get
that>?
*****
LOL
The issue isn't where, but why.
If you can imagine it, canned tripe is cooked. Tripe isn't required at
all; to feed it cooked is I think beyond the pale.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:23 pm ((PDT))

On Sep 28, 2007, at 3:50 PM, Laura Atkinson wrote:

> Heck, I use Pill Pockets (tm) that I order or buy at PetSmart.
> Life's too
> short to worry that hard about little things like what to wrap
> around a
> pill.

I saw those at a store the other day, and came away thinking they
were fairly evil as far as ingredients:) I use chunks of meat with
little pockets cut in, or ground, or handfuls of tripe, or anything
I'm eating chewed flat and wrapped around them.

ginny and Tomo, pills, pills, pills, and now the Metacam, which
doesn't taste near as good as they say, apparently. It goes in soup
or pureed liver.

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

2e. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
Posted by: "Michelle Grabert" chalienme@yahoo.com chalienme
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:53 pm ((PDT))

Gosh folks. Peanut buttter~ they all LOVE it, and stick ny size pill in it and swish swipe gone with a lick for more./ Michelle

ginny wilken <gwilken@alamedanet.net> wrote:
On Sep 28, 2007, at 3:50 PM, Laura Atkinson wrote:

> Heck, I use Pill Pockets (tm) that I order or buy at PetSmart.
> Life's too
> short to worry that hard about little things like what to wrap
> around a
> pill.

I saw those at a store the other day, and came away thinking they
were fairly evil as far as ingredients:) I use chunks of meat with
little pockets cut in, or ground, or handfuls of tripe, or anything
I'm eating chewed flat and wrapped around them.

ginny and Tomo, pills, pills, pills, and now the Metacam, which
doesn't taste near as good as they say, apparently. It goes in soup
or pureed liver.

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: bones in poo!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:31 pm ((PDT))

"patti.h310" <patti.h310@...> wrote:
>I thought chix wing were the
> perfect bone to meat ratio, so he's been getting those pretty
> regularly (we're only about 3 weeks into raw)
*****
They may qualify for perfection in someone's formula but that
relationship of meat to bone is not part of Ma Nature's big plan.
The reason many of us recommend people buy and feed through whole
chickens is to overcome--or at least confront--feeding lots of bone.

When you feed through whole birds (however long it takes for a dog to
eat through a bird) you are feeding some meaty parts and some bony
parts but by the time you have fed through the bird you have fed a
practical approximation of whole prey.

(Whole processed birds come to market skewed towards bone, so once
you've gotten a sense of what the kid can eat, you might consider
adding some extra meat to particularly bony body parts (like wings
and necks).

What about leg
> quarters? Are those bones too hard?
****
Mostly not too hard. Maybe for very young or very small dogs. You
would be surprised what those carnivorous little teeth can accomplish.

Good news though, he just ate
> lamb!
*****
Lamb is positively lovely.

I have only
> fed him beef ribs a couple times. Thats what gave him loose stools.
*****
My guess is the fat content was responsible for the loose stools;
also a good chew--a really good chew--can cause loose stools as well,
sort like unusually intense exercise can. You can always try the
ribs later. No rush.

But beef liver doesn't interest him.
*****
Liver is non-negotiable, but you can try other than beef liver.
Chicken liver is fine; pork liver seems less potent than beef, so
consider that as well.

> Another question.....are turkey legs or wings ok?
*****
Depends on the dog. I don't feed wings to my retrievers unless
they're attached to a larger section of turkey; I do feed legs but
mostly leg quarters. Sometimes the long leg bone spooks new
rawfeeders. If you aren't comfortable with it, you can return to it
later as well.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. ADMIN/Re:Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:34 pm ((PDT))

This subject is really too far-ranging to fit onto Rawfeeding. I
suggest you all move it lock stock and barrel to RawChat, where the
various issues can be better addressed.

Specific diet questions of course can always be posted to Rawfeeding.
Thank you.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. ADMIN/Re:Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:43 pm ((PDT))

Please, if the topic is not raw food, please direct your post to
RawChat where behavior issues can be discussed.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. newbie - few questions
Posted by: "Heather" heather_b_bunny@yahoo.com heather_b_bunny
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:03 pm ((PDT))

Hi all,
I am fairly new to the raw /prey diet - I have a small dog, a mutt named Gabby
- don't know what she is really looks like a bit of a cross between a corgi and
a pom but who knows. I've had her on a raw diet for about 6 months now that her
homeopath suggested. She gets raw meaty bones - I had no idea I could give her
raw chicken bones - I have stuck mainly to ground meats, but now that I am
reading your posts and am having my eyes opened to more options - is this a
good place to ask for some guidance about giving my dog portions of bird
carcasses - I think a 20 pound dog is too small for a whole chicken - yeah?

And I am reading not to feed vegetables - but gabby really likes them, she will
even eat the stalks that my brussels sprouts come one, it's like a bone to her.
Should I stop giving it to her?

Thanks much, any input would be helpful, there is a kosher butcher in my
neighborhood so I can easily go visit him for her food.

thanks again,
Heather

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: newbie - few questions
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:11 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Heather <heather_b_bunny@...> wrote:
>
> I think a 20 pound dog is too small for a whole chicken - yeah?

For one feeding, yeah, but you can make several meals out of a chicken
or do as I do. I feed only chicken quarters and backs. To me it's
much easier and I don't have to chop up whole chickens.

> And I am reading not to feed vegetables - but gabby really
> likes them, she will
> even eat the stalks that my brussels sprouts come one, it's like
> a bone to her.
> Should I stop giving it to her?

It would be better to stop feeding them as meals, but as a treat, they
would be great. I like cake, cookies, candy, and ice cream but I
don't eat them as whole meals or even as large parts of a meal but a
little after a good meal is real good. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Thin Dog
Posted by: "CRYSTAL" cryrolfe@msn.com tailspinz04
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:04 pm ((PDT))

I have a Boston terrier. He is a little bit over a year old and has
always been on a raw diet. He mostly eats chicken and beef and fish
once a week. I guess he averages about a half pound a day and he's
18lbs.
His stools look fine.
He seems to be very lean to me. I can see his ribs slightly and he
doesn't have a lot of muscle.
He has always been very lethargic by nature....very laid back and low
key...reminds me of a Bassett.

My vet says some dogs are just lean and his lethargic nature may also
be just natural.
I know some dogs don't fill out til they're about 2yrs old sometimes.

I guess I'm just a worrier, but is there anything more I should be
giving him to help put on some weight?
Are there some tests that I should maybe get for him?

Thanks guys,
Crystal

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Thin Dog
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:14 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "CRYSTAL" <cryrolfe@...> wrote:
>
> I guess I'm just a worrier, but is there anything more I should be
> giving him to help put on some weight?
> Are there some tests that I should maybe get for him?

Keep him thin. It's much healthier for him. Get him some exercise.
That is usually good for lethargy. By exercise, I don't mean a walk
around the block. Get him running, chasing a ball or stick or frisbee
or something. Maybe get him into agility or something that expends
energy. It would do you both good.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: Thin Dog
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:05 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "CRYSTAL" <cryrolfe@...> wrote:
>
> I have a Boston. I guess he averages about a half pound a day
>he's 18lbs.
> He seems to be very lean to me.

*** Lean is good. Is he thinner than this dog?
http://rawfed.com/issoudem.html

> He has always been very lethargic by nature

*** That seems a bit unusual for a Boston, but maybe he tends toward
the bulldog side of his heritage. Have you talked to his breeder
about typical temperment for his/her lines?

> My vet says some dogs are just lean and his lethargic nature may
> also be just natural.

*** If his vet isn't worried, there probably isn't much to worry
about.

> I guess I'm just a worrier, but is there anything more I should be
> giving him to help put on some weight?
> Are there some tests that I should maybe get for him?

*** I wouldn't try to get him fatter, but eating 3% of his
bodyweight daily AND being inactive makes me consider
hypothyroidism. Bostons are on the list of breeds predisposed to
this condition. If you want to be sure, have a 6-way thyroid panel
done on him.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Kate and Joey's 4th B-Day Party!!!!
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:33 pm ((PDT))

My kiddies are 4 years old today!!!! I splurged and bought them a
piece of a wild boar leg - they never had it before and then they had
milk fed veal liver for dessert!!!!!
They were OVER THE TOP for the wild boar! Here's the photoshow......

http://www.photoshow.net/watch/rv5ZK7hq

Suz Kate and Joey

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Kate and Joey's 4th B-Day Party!!!!
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:50 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Susanne MacLeod" <suzmacleod@...>
wrote:
>
>
> http://www.photoshow.net/watch/rv5ZK7hq

*** Fantastic! Happy B-day to the furries, and congrats. How many 4
year old Frenchies have shiny white teeth like that? Not so many.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: Kate and Joey's 4th B-Day Party!!!!
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:07 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Carrie - they are so friggin' healthy since switchin......it's
awesome!!!! Four years going on 14!!!!!
Hugs
Suz

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: New member - probably silly question
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:34 pm ((PDT))

Hi Trina,

> I had to chop the bone for my boy. unless you have another idea? He
> takes them and slides them down his thoat by turning his head side
> to side. The size doesn't matter & he WILL choke himself.
> So, what do you think is better to feed than a chicken quarter

> because that will not work for my 98 pound Dal.

Correction :) Size certainly WILL matter when the size is right --
that is, big enough. There is no way a half chicken, for example, is
going to slide down his throat.

I think you are right that a chicken quarter is not ideal -- because
it's not big enough. I feed quarters to my 80-lber and they are barely
big enough. Feed a half chicken, or a whole chicken and make it two
day's worth of food (either by taking it away when he's eaten about
half or by letting him eat the whole thing every other day with
fasting or a small snack on the days between).

Chopping is only going to increase the risk of choking. This is very
important! A bite-sized piece is absolutely ideal to be gulped down
whole, slide into the throat and plug it up beautifully. Please,
please let your dogs chomp, rip and tear -- stop chopping.

Kristin

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. new to raw with a question
Posted by: "abeautiful3" abeautiful3@yahoo.com abeautiful3
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:13 pm ((PDT))

Hello everyone I have the six AB's that have been on raw for two weeks
now, I have been reading the messages and came across the one about
demodex my question is what is demodex?

Arlene

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: new to raw with a question
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:07 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "abeautiful3" <abeautiful3@...> wrote:
my question is what is demodex?
>
> Arlene
>

Hi Arlene,
Demodex are tiny parasitic mites which live in or near hair follicles
of mammals. It's basically a type of mange. (Demodex canis)
-Liz

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. What to do?
Posted by: "rottincherrie" rottincherrie@yahoo.com rottincherrie
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:14 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES PLEASE.***

Hi everyone,

This is my very first post in rawfeeding. I am trying hard to convince
my dad to let us switch our dog to raw. His top excuses are:
1.) Too expensive (my sister is going to a private college and my dad
bought a new car)
2.) Gross
3.) He will get sick and die from food poisoning

And by then he has stopped talking and refuses to say anything more.

How to convince him? Our dog eats KIBBLE, poor dog! I don't know what
to do!

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: raw meat only
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:07 pm ((PDT))

Denise,

Glad to hear your good results, esp. w/ear infections. I have had
great results as well on rawfeeding. Just want to clarify that the
term 'scientific study' is not a relativistic term. Many may abuse
it, but that does not diminish the value of a truly scientific method.
Rather than devalue the term, let us look at the methods behind the so-
called study, and evaluate each for its method.

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Strother" wrote:

Besides, if you go by scientific studies, then you ought to know the
ones done by the dog food companies say that you should be feeding
their food anyway.

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12090

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. How many people out there have been feeding raw for 10 years or more
From: one_sojourner_one
1b. Re: How many people out there have been feeding raw for 10 years or
From: Joanne Thompson
1c. Re: How many people out there have been feeding raw for 10 years or
From: debby lappat

2a. Re: New member - probably silly question
From: T Smith
2b. Re: New member - probably silly question
From: Andrea
2c. Re: New member - probably silly question
From: Olga
2d. Re: New member - probably silly question
From: Yasuko herron
2e. Re: New member - probably silly question
From: Yasuko herron

3a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Seizures
From: Sandee Lee
3b. Re: {Raw Feeding} Seizures
From: Michelle Grabert

4a. Re: Whole Turkey Necks
From: Olga
4b. Re: Whole Turkey Necks
From: Sandee Lee

5a. Re: How do I start?
From: Dawn Ruhl

6a. Re: bones in poo!
From: patti.h310

7a. Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
From: Dawn Ruhl
7b. Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)
7c. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
From: Maggie Smith
7d. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
From: meg_helmes

8a. Re: Update on my "starving" dog
From: qsgirl916
8b. Re: Update on my "starving" dog
From: Misty Sargent
8c. Re: Update on my "starving" dog
From: eyed_blue

9a. Re: Feeding rats? and fish types
From: brake4breyers832

10a. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
From: brake4breyers832
10b. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
From: Mary Whetsel
10c. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
From: Michelle Grabert

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. How many people out there have been feeding raw for 10 years or more
Posted by: "one_sojourner_one" onesojourner@gmail.com one_sojourner_one
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:29 am ((PDT))

It seems most of the people that are doing raw a relatively new at it,
new being less than 5 years. I know there are some of you on this list
that have been feeding raw for much longer and I would like to know
how the dogs or doing in the long run. How many dogs are there out
there that have ate raw from puppy hood to death?

peter

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: How many people out there have been feeding raw for 10 years or
Posted by: "Joanne Thompson" tho0123@earthlink.net black_diamond_kennels
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:56 pm ((PDT))

Peter,

It may seem like most of the people are relatively new to raw because
those are the people that still need to ask questions. There are a ton
of us here that have been feeding raw for longer. I have been doing it
for nearly 12 years with my (currently) 9 Giant Schnauzers, with great
success. I have only one dog, my oldest who is 12, that has ever tasted
kibble (that's what he was eating when he came to me). The rest have no
clue what kibble or store bought treats are.

This same question has been asked recently, so you can probably search
the archives to see other people's responses.

Joanne Thompson
Black Diamond Kennels
Working Giant Schnauzers
Bellvue, CO 80512

> __

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: How many people out there have been feeding raw for 10 years or
Posted by: "debby lappat" dlappat@yahoo.com dlappat
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:51 pm ((PDT))

Peter, Hi My Breeder in Calif Has Feed Raw For 20 yrs+ We Have Ridgebacks . She just had 1 Ridgeback live to 15 yrs and he was doing GREAT . She has had Many of her dogs live to 12yrs and up . Her Vet always is asking her about raw. Many of her puppies are on raw all over the US We all have very very good results. I also have 3 ridgebacks and 2 scotties all have been on Raw over 5 yrs We are doing wonderful. I am so happy with all of my dogs health. There Teeth are really good and we have such sweet breath. I have notice many others things about my dogs that are different from others.I have also gotten many others to switch to raw. I do believe this is the only way to feed. Good Luck debby

one_sojourner_one <onesojourner@gmail.com> wrote: It seems most of the people that are doing raw a relatively new at it,
new being less than 5 years. I know there are some of you on this list
that have been feeding raw for much longer and I would like to know
how the dogs or doing in the long run. How many dogs are there out
there that have ate raw from puppy hood to death?

peter

---------------------------------
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: New member - probably silly question
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:29 am ((PDT))

Hey Sandee,
I had to chop the bone for my boy. unless you have another idea? He takes
them and slides them down his thoat by turning his head side to side. The
size doesn't matter & he WILL choke himself.
So, what do you think is better to feed than a chicken quarter because that
will not work for my 98 pound Dal. Unless I chop it.
Trina

On 9/28/07, Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote:
>
> Well, that's the normal way for a dog to eat...crunch, crunch, swallow.
> You
> don't want to chop up the bone, you want to feed her something larger...a
> chicken quarter would be the smallest food I would offer a dog her size.
>
> Dump that kibble, get a couple of whole chickens and quarter them!
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: New member - probably silly question
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:38 am ((PDT))

If a chicken quarter is still too small feed half a chicken. No matter
how much head tossing he does he'll never be able to swallow a whole
chicken. Or you could try and partially freeze the quarter so it is
harder.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:

> I had to chop the bone for my boy. unless you have another idea?
> He takes them and slides them down his thoat by turning his head
> side to side.

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: New member - probably silly question
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:12 pm ((PDT))

I do half chickens for my 75 lb dog. If that's too small too, try
feeding it half-frozen, or do a whole chicken. Chopping is not the
answer. And of course, you won't be feeding just chicken for long.
There are many big items to choose from once you add turkey and pork
to their diet (which I'm guessing you will do eventually, since you
are just starting out).

Good luck!

Olga

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Re: New member - probably silly question
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:55 pm ((PDT))

>I had to chop the bone for my boy. He takes them and slides them down his thoat by >turning his head side to side.

Hi.I thnk that the smaller the easier for dogs to inhale the food. Good exampleis kibble.Kibble is so tiny that dog tend to inhale it and we hear some dog choke with kibble etc.

I think bigger the better for your dog to eat. This is way too exhagrating example but if you feed head of animal,it is obiously bigger than dog's head and it is so hard for dog to inhale or swalolow the animal head you feed.

So,unless your dog had prob with teeth or jaw,then,chopping bones would not be good,more for tempting dog to swallow them.

Feed bigger stuff.

>So, what do you think is better to feed than a chicken quarter

Well,chicken qurter you meant is whole chicken cut into 4 or Leg qurter you mean?

If you meant Leg qurter,get whole chicken and feed the bird in appropriate portion to your dog.If your dog was 89lb and that was ideal weight then,2% intake will be around 2lb daily.

I usually get whole chicken about 5lb or so to make roast chicken so, for your dog, half the chicken;cut right in the middle along the spine would be about daily intake if you feed 2% with the weight 89lb. Half the chicken is too small for dog to swallow???

yassy

---------------------------------
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

2e. Re: New member - probably silly question
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:56 pm ((PDT))

>She's a big girl, about 65 pounds of love

Hi.Sorry I made mistake about feeding amount for yourdog in my earlier post.For some reason,I was thinking 89lb.Sorry...

So,if you feed 2% and if your dog were ideal weight then,1.5lb per daily roughly.

So,I am sure that you can find 3-4lb whole chicken if you look through ,you still can give half the whole chicken like others mentioned.

yassy

---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Seizures
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:29 am ((PDT))

Brandi,

Feeding a raw diet can and does help with seizure control. Many dogs have
had a reduction in seizure frequency and been able to have their meds
reduced. By getting a dog off kibble not only are you eliminating all of
the preservatives, dyes, etc., but the grains and other carbs can be a
trigger.

There is some good information in this message...
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/107357

Also, she needs to make certain this dog gets no more vaccs or other
toxins!!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@gmail.com>

> Ok, I got some more information from my friend that has the female
> sheltie that's having seizures. She will be 2 in Jan., she started
> having seizures in April - started out that wouldn't have the seizures
> about every month and they started increasing. Now she's having them
> every 2 weeks. She's on 32.16 mg of Phenabarbertor (sp) - half that
> amount 16 something which she gives her pup twice a day. She's
> interested in RAW if she thinks that it would help her with the
> seizures.

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: {Raw Feeding} Seizures
Posted by: "Michelle Grabert" chalienme@yahoo.com chalienme
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:01 pm ((PDT))

thanks, michelle

costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote: Michelle Grabert <chalienme@...> wrote:
>
> ca you please tell me what is CH>?
thanks , Michelle
*****
Classical homeopath.
For more information you might want to join RawChat.
Chris o

---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Whole Turkey Necks
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:07 pm ((PDT))

I think your dog needs bigger pieces of RMB to chew on. Instead of a
turkey neck, how about getting a whole turkey and cutting it into say
4 big hunks? They can't be swallowed whole not only because they are
big, but also because of their shape.

Since most of the neck gets swallowed, there's not much of a dental
benefit anyway. There's nothing magic about turkey necks either - you
can easily feed any other turkey part, or a half/whole chicken, or a
big pork roast, or a slab of ribs, etc.

Olga

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Whole Turkey Necks
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:18 pm ((PDT))

Greg,

Turkey necks fall into the "know your dog" category. Some dogs handle them
just fine...if you have a gulper, they can be a problem
as they are an easy shape for the dog to swallow whole and choke. If he is
mashing the bone enough that it isn't going to get stuck going down (sounds
like he is), he's probably ok.

You definitely don't want to cut them into small chunks. It's the diameter
rather than the length that poses the hazards and a small piece would be far
too easy to swallow whole.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "GWiesmore" <gwiesmore@yahoo.com>

Our 5 month old bullmastiff absolutely loves turkey necks. We used to
cut them up into small 1"x1" chunks, but then our breeder told us that
chewing the full neck would be better for her teeth and exercising her
jaws. Here's the rub... When we give her a whole turkey neck, she
chews the fat end just enough to break up the bones and make it
skinnier, then swallows the darned thing whole. Although she doesn't
exhibit any negative signs after swallowing the neck whole, I'm
concerned that the length of the neck is not going to fit in her
stomach and hurt her. These things are 8"-9" long.

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: How do I start?
Posted by: "Dawn Ruhl" Dawnofthedanes@mac.com dawnofthedanes
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:55 pm ((PDT))

Or Green Tripe! <<G>>
I can hardly eat chicken anymore, unless it is fried, since I started
feeding raw.
Took me a while to be able to eat rare meats again, but the dried
out, flavorless
taste of medium well just didn't cut it for me. So, I at least got
past that.

Dawn
~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~

Re: How do I start?
Posted by: "one_sojourner_one" onesojourner@gmail.com
one_sojourner_one
Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:15 am (PST

Please tell us you are not eating raw chicken quarters for dinner! ;)

peter

~;*;~ Dawn ~;*;~
"There's enough for a Bull, There's enough for a Bear,
But, there's never enough for a Pig"- John P Ruhl Sr.
http://www.dawnofthedanes.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: bones in poo!
Posted by: "patti.h310" patti.h310@yahoo.com patti.h310
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:55 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for all this information... I thought chix wing were the
perfect bone to meat ratio, so he's been getting those pretty
regularly (we're only about 3 weeks into raw) What about leg
quarters? Are those bones too hard? Good news though, he just ate
lamb! When I got home today I told him "Mommy has a present"!!!!
That always gets him excited and he devoured the lamb. I have only
fed him beef ribs a couple times. Thats what gave him loose stools.
He absolutly loves beef though so he does get some ground. I haven't
been able to find beef heart. But beef liver doesn't interest him.
Another question.....are turkey legs or wings ok?
Thanks, Patti

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Olga" <olga.drozd@...> wrote:
>
> I feed neck bones with extra added meat (like some heart,
frequently).
> Also, chicken wings and necks are too small for a 50 lb dog, not to
> mention also too heavy in bone unless you are adding a lot of
boneless
> meat. If you feed too much bone, you will find bone pieces in the
> stool in my experience, because their system can only digest so much
> of it.
>
> Also, how many times have you fed beef? In my experience it's
richer
> than poultry and pork, so I had to feed small amounts of it first
and
> give it a few tries before my two had firm stools on it. Beef is a
> very worthwhile protein to feed. As far as turkey, have you tried
> more meaty pieces? Same for pork, more meaty. :D
>
> Olga
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "patti.h310" <patti.h310@> wrote:
> > I'm new to raw feeding and my 50lb. Beardie loves me for it.
However,
> > he's very particular! Chicken wings and leg quarters are ok, but
he
> > won't touch necks. Beef Ribs give him loose stooles. Won't touch
> > turkey necks or any kind of liver. Will not even consider lamb.
He
> > loves pork neck bones but sometimes I find large, quarter sized
pieces
> > of hard bone in his poo. (I poked it with a stick!) Should I
stop
> > giving him the pork neck bones?
>

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
Posted by: "Dawn Ruhl" Dawnofthedanes@mac.com dawnofthedanes
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:55 pm ((PDT))

OUCH, Trina! Hope your leg is Ok.
Yes, the raw diet should help his attitude. But, the pain sounds like
Chip's biggest problem! Through the years, I have seen the diet help
arthritic dogs, hopefully enough to change a really bad attitude
enough, like you want.
For an older arthritic dog I would hope that giving him/her
Synflex or Flexicose (www.cactuscanyon.com) feeding tracheas and
gullets will all help his arthritis, and hopefully his bad 'tude.
Also, I have used Hyaluronic Acid, which doesn't work for
everyone... do wonders for my senior GSD who would have gone
to God a long time ago, if not for the raw diet and HA and the
other supplements I mentioned.
Dawn

~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~
Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:53 am (PST)

I have a few dogs needing medications.
One is my Dal & he takes alot of medicines. He's old & sick & cranky!
I usually give it in a ball of canned food but would like to give it in
something raw based...I don't want to feed the canned crap any more.
Hamburger? I am hearing alot more on a different list about feeding raw
burger... I thought it wasn't a main source? Advice welcomed here. i
also
thought about grinding up chicken necks and using them in little
balls with
pills.

On a totally off the main food: will raw help (could it) my Dal's
temperament who is getting worse. He is in pain & on pain meds but he is
also a butthead! He accidentally bit me this morning in my calf when he
didn't like my other dog in his space. It wasn't nice & it isn't pretty
looking onmy leg!! Thankfully it isn't shorts weather. I don't want
to go
off topic here, just hoping others have dealt with raw &
temperamental dogs
& would like to know if there was any difference: good, bad or
otherwise? I
will be adding another pain med in his diet now. But any natural
foods in
RAW that can work as a natural pain reliever?
Trina
--
Chip (deaf Dalmatian)
Casper (deaf Great Dane)
Whisper (deaf Great Dane)
Louie (hearing Great Dane)
Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso)
Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso)
Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix)
Laus Deo!
~;*;~ Dawn ~;*;~
"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look
at how many want in ... And how many want out."
Tony Blair
http://dawnofthedanes.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:57 pm ((PDT))

Temperament is what it is - somewhat a breed characteristic, somewhat
the result of early appropriate socialization, the parents'
temperaments, and so on. Can't change that much, at least, not in an
older dog.

Crankiness, OTOH, can result from pain, esp. from painful joints
unnecessarily inflamed by eating processed dog food full of
carbohydrates, sugars, chemicals, rancid fat, and worse. Crankiness can
definitely be reduced by feeding a proper raw diet, as this can help
alleviate pain in the joints, at least. A raw diet with 10% bones will
also alleviate periodontal disease, which left untreated results in
heart disease, kidney failure, and other nasties. These can also be
painful for a dog.

The bite, however, is a training issue, pure and simple. The dog should
be corrected immediately (yelled at loudly) and given a time out (one
minute ALONE in the bathroom with the door shut) for this absolutely
unacceptable behavior.

If you let him get away with it just because he's in pain, you are
eventually going to risk a lawsuit, or worse, you might have to put the
dog down. Nobody wants that.

A well-trained dog can be in enormous pain and still not bite. Biting is
a training issue. Biting is a training issue. Biting is a training
issue.

Carolyn J. Garnaas and Molly The Dog, Who Can Definitely Bite, But Would
Not Ever Dream of Doing So

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This message and any included attachments are from Siemens Medical Solutions
and are intended only for the addressee(s).
The information contained herein may include trade secrets or privileged or
otherwise confidential information. Unauthorized review, forwarding, printing,
copying, distributing, or using such information is strictly prohibited and may
be unlawful. If you received this message in error, or have reason to believe
you are not authorized to receive it, please promptly delete this message and
notify the sender by e-mail with a copy to Central.SecurityOffice@siemens.com

Thank you

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
Posted by: "Maggie Smith" redkeds@comcast.net redkeds1
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:24 pm ((PDT))

Hey Trina,

I keep ground beef in my fridge for supps for the boys - just make a
meatball and push the pills in and presto - works like a charm
everytime. No pills to give? Give them the occasional meatball as
a treat!

Ground beef does not sustain them, just a little on the side each
day, but it is still raw.

Sorry, can't answer regarding the temperament - may be some of that
is kibble/grains/additives related - give him some time to adjust to
the raw and see how he is then?

Maggie, Rufus and Oliver

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> I have a few dogs needing medications.
> One is my Dal & he takes alot of medicines. He's old & sick &
cranky!
> I usually give it in a ball of canned food but would like to give
it in
> something raw based...I don't want to feed the canned crap any
more.
> Hamburger? I am hearing alot more on a different list about
feeding raw
> burger... I thought it wasn't a main source? Advice welcomed
here. i also
> thought about grinding up chicken necks and using them in little
balls with
> pills.
>
> On a totally off the main food: will raw help (could it) my Dal's
> temperament who is getting worse. He is in pain & on pain meds
but he is
> also a butthead! He accidentally bit me this morning in my calf
when he
> didn't like my other dog in his space. It wasn't nice & it isn't
pretty
> looking onmy leg!! Thankfully it isn't shorts weather. I don't
want to go
> off topic here, just hoping others have dealt with raw &
temperamental dogs
> & would like to know if there was any difference: good, bad or
otherwise? I
> will be adding another pain med in his diet now. But any natural
foods in
> RAW that can work as a natural pain reliever?
> Trina
> --
> Chip (deaf Dalmatian)
> Casper (deaf Great Dane)
> Whisper (deaf Great Dane)
> Louie (hearing Great Dane)
> Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso)
> Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso)
> Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso)
> Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso)
> Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

7d. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
Posted by: "meg_helmes" mhelmes@gmail.com meg_helmes
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:48 pm ((PDT))

I have a few dogs needing medications.
> One is my Dal & he takes alot of medicines. He's old & sick & cranky!
> I usually give it in a ball of canned food but would like to give it in
> something raw based...I don't want to feed the canned crap any more.
> Hamburger? I am hearing alot more on a different list about feeding raw
> burger...

Trina-
My dog needs to take meds twice daily, and I use ground turkey
meatballs, ground hamburger, or canned ground tripe (brand name
Tripett). Ground shouldn't be the main of your dog's diet, but it
makes a great pill delivery system and kong stuffer (just freeze it!).
You can also use cheese, cream cheese, etc. It's not a huge part of my
dog's diet, so I don't worry about it too much. I put it in the treats
category.

~Meg & Ruby the wonderpup

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Update on my "starving" dog
Posted by: "qsgirl916" qsgirl916@yahoo.com qsgirl916
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:55 pm ((PDT))

I understand your point, but what is up with her rejecting the chicken
and the beef? I could see if she just hated the chicken, but she's
rejecting everything...except the cheese, of course.

Obviously, I'm keeping an eye on her b/c I would never want to make her
ill especially since the point of this diet was for her to have better
health!

I'll keep everyone posted on our progress. I appreciate all the input!

Sarah

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Misty Sargent <jrtlover27@...> wrote:
>
Obviously the dog is rejecting the chicken repeatedly, and if you
encourage her to hold out forever and the dog continues to refuse to
eat, she is going to either have a very sick dog or a dead dog.

Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: Update on my "starving" dog
Posted by: "Misty Sargent" jrtlover27@yahoo.com jrtlover27
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:25 pm ((PDT))

It may be that the beef upset her tummy and she just needs some time to get used to it. I say this since she ate it the first time. Maybe get some shredded cheese and stir it in with the beef so that she can't pick it out.

Misty

qsgirl916 <qsgirl916@yahoo.com> wrote:
I understand your point, but what is up with her rejecting the chicken
and the beef? I could see if she just hated the chicken, but she's
rejecting everything...except the cheese, of course.

Obviously, I'm keeping an eye on her b/c I would never want to make her
ill especially since the point of this diet was for her to have better
health!

I'll keep everyone posted on our progress. I appreciate all the input!

Sarah

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Misty Sargent <jrtlover27@...> wrote:
>
Obviously the dog is rejecting the chicken repeatedly, and if you
encourage her to hold out forever and the dog continues to refuse to
eat, she is going to either have a very sick dog or a dead dog.

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________

8c. Re: Update on my "starving" dog
Posted by: "eyed_blue" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:25 pm ((PDT))

have you tried just browning the chicken off then grating cheese
over and letting it cool so that it is all sort of stuck to the
chicken?

She knows the chicken and the cheese are separate and its too hard
to pick grated cheese from ki**le so she ate it.

If that doesnt work then I wouldn't fuss by trying any other foods
added as she will cotton on to that aswell.

I think someone has suggested that your dog is allergic to chicken
is this a fact? You are the only one who can see the dog, so how
long has she gone without food altogether and that includes NO
treats or tit bits? Remember in the wild they would go quite a
while without food then eat....

If you are really worried then try another protein but my pup in the
past has gone 5 days without food and is fine, I'm not recommending
anyone purposely starves a dog 5 days, just letting you know.

Natalie

Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: Feeding rats? and fish types
Posted by: "brake4breyers832" pebbles_diehl@hotmail.com brake4breyers832
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:56 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for the replies! I have been looking into some smaller
resources for my dogs since they are so small. I will add quail to
the list, thanks!
Susan D.

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
Posted by: "brake4breyers832" pebbles_diehl@hotmail.com brake4breyers832
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:56 pm ((PDT))

> got me wondering about goldfish. Heck, can get 100 of them here for
> probably five dollars. woul they be good for cats?
> *****
I would be leary about feeding goldfish bought from a pet store. Most
of them live in water that was treated to neutralize chemicals,
chlorine, etc. and all the bottles I ever used said to not use it for
fish that will be consumed.
Hope this helps!
Susan D.

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
Posted by: "Mary Whetsel" chickiboo@gmail.com cooljavachic
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:24 pm ((PDT))

About feeding goldfish to cats... I had asked this question earlier on
rawcat (which if you are feeding cats raw, I highly recommend you join) and
got some positive feedback, but again that wasn't for a steady diet. I just
needed to get rid of some extras in my pond.

One of my cats did eat the head only of one of the larger fish (about 4
inches) but that was it. The rest of the fish didn't interest her at all.
On the other hand she loves other whole fish from the grocery store. I also
tried leaving them out overnight for the strays, and unlike other leavings,
they were never touched. I can't say what other cats might think, but mine
didn't seem to approve.

-Mary

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________

10c. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
Posted by: "Michelle Grabert" chalienme@yahoo.com chalienme
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:51 pm ((PDT))

ya know I got to thinking more about the goldfish idea and it dawned on me that back had fish tanks, I would have to add a few different chemicals to the water for ph, algea, whatnot. I am not sure of you have to treat an outdoor pond but made me think,hmm, maybe notsuch a hot idea feeding Goldfish afterall...? michelle

costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote: Michelle Grabert <chalienme@...> wrote:
another question, might seem funny or stupid but I am not trying to
be.
*****
Nope, it's a perfectly logical question.

got me wondering about goldfish. Heck, can get 100 of them here for
probably five dollars. woul they be good for cats?
*****
Others know lots more about cats than I do. My take on this is fish
are not necessarily species appropriate to a cat's diet so while an
occasional fish is okay, a steady diet is not. Also, the nutritional
value of goldfish/carp/any fish is directly related to the goldfish's
diet. If you can feed goldfish a good natural diet they will be more
useful to your cat than dimestore goldfish fed goldfish food flakes.

Yes, the larger ones can be fed to dogs. Whether the cat or dogs
will eat the carp remains to be seen.
Chris O

---------------------------------
Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12089

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: New member - probably silly question
From: Andrea
1b. Re: New member - probably silly question
From: carnesbill
1c. Re: New member - probably silly question
From: att_makes_alt
1d. Re: New member - probably silly question
From: Sandee Lee
1e. Re: New member - probably silly question
From: T Smith

2a. Re: Beef feet
From: Andrea
2b. Re: Beef feet
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: Update on my "starving" dog
From: Andrea
3b. Re: Update on my "starving" dog
From: carnesbill
3c. Re: Update on my "starving" dog
From: Misty Sargent

4a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Seizures
From: Michelle Grabert
4b. Re: {Raw Feeding} Seizures
From: costrowski75

5a. New member here... Need help.
From: Alexander Dewey
5b. Re: New member here... Need help.
From: Andrea

6a. Re: How do I start?
From: one_sojourner_one
6b. Re: How do I start?
From: carnesbill

7a. Whole Turkey Necks
From: GWiesmore
7b. Re: Whole Turkey Necks
From: carnesbill

8a. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
From: Michelle Grabert
8b. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
From: costrowski75

9. Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
From: T Smith

10a. Re: Confused about beef bones
From: cleone4100@aol.com
10b. Re: Confused about beef bones
From: Olga

11a. Re: bones in poo!
From: Olga

12a. Re: Demodex
From: Michelle Grabert

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: New member - probably silly question
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:18 am ((PDT))

It won't hurt her to swallow big pieces more or less whole, but a 65lb
girl should be getting at least a quarter so she has to do some work on
the food.

Wait, you meant whole drumstick with meat, not just the bone, right?
If you meant bare bone then start giving her bone in meat. About the
size of a chicken quarter. Cutting up swallowable pieces into smaller
pieces only increases the likelyhood of choking.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "petpalikali" <petpalikali@...>
wrote:

> When I give her a whole chicken drumstick bone, she chomps it
> all up at once - swallowing the whole thing. I haven't noticed a
> problem with it, but was concerned that it wasn't chewed up enough for
> her to digest. Is this ok, or should I chop the bone into smaller
> pieces. She's a big girl, about 65 pounds of love.
>

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: New member - probably silly question
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:53 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "petpalikali" <petpalikali@...>
wrote:

> I've been moving my dog toward an all raw diet for about 3 months
> now. When I give her a whole chicken drumstick bone, she chomps it
> all up at once - swallowing the whole thing.

You are equating dog chewing with human chewing. They are not the
same. We chew food to a mush before we swallow it. For us,
digestion begins in the mouth. Dogs only crunch things into small
enough parts to fit down the throat and some pretty big things will
fit down a dog's throat. Dog's digestion begins in the stomach.

What you are seeing won't cause a problem as one of my Danes will
sometimes steal a drumstick from one of the cats and will swallow it
whole with no crunches at all. It has never caused a problem.

I suggest you feed larger pieces. Chicken backs are the smallest
thing I feed. Quarters are a good size. Feed them pieces that are
too big to swallow. This promotes chewing which is good for their
teeth and gums. It prevents periodontal problems.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: New member - probably silly question
Posted by: "att_makes_alt" att_makes_alt@yahoo.com att_makes_alt
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:53 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "petpalikali" <petpalikali@...>
wrote:
>
When I give her a whole chicken drumstick bone, she chomps it
> all up at once - swallowing the whole thing. I haven't noticed a
> problem with it, but was concerned that it wasn't chewed up enough for
> her to digest. Is this ok, or should I chop the bone into smaller
> pieces. She's a big girl, about 65 pounds of love.
>
First of all, don't be worried about silly questions. You may want to
give her 1/4 or 1/2 a whole chicken instead of a leg; that will
encourage your dog to chew. :)

Jeri

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: New member - probably silly question
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:14 am ((PDT))

Well, that's the normal way for a dog to eat...crunch, crunch, swallow. You
don't want to chop up the bone, you want to feed her something larger...a
chicken quarter would be the smallest food I would offer a dog her size.

Dump that kibble, get a couple of whole chickens and quarter them!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "petpalikali" <petpalikali@yahoo.com>

I've been moving my dog toward an all raw diet for about 3 months
now. When I give her a whole chicken drumstick bone, she chomps it
all up at once - swallowing the whole thing. I haven't noticed a
problem with it, but was concerned that it wasn't chewed up enough for
her to digest. Is this ok, or should I chop the bone into smaller
pieces. She's a big girl, about 65 pounds of love.

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1e. Re: New member - probably silly question
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:28 am ((PDT))

My Dal ate the thigh & drumstick in TWO pieces ONLY because he accidentally
chewed it in half while trying to swallow it whole the first time he ate
RAW.
So, now I chop in into bite sized (2 x 2 -ish) pieces so he doesn't choke
himself! He took to the RAW like there was never ever another food! The
other 3 are doing well though I feel I am not feeding enough. The chewing &
working for food was 'not worth it to them' at first but by day 2 meal, they
EAT, EAT, EAT :-)
I know it is totally impressed upon us to do "gradual changes" in feedings
but the RAW change is immediate & the reasoning makes so much sense. the
digestion of k**le vs raw food. I know someone else will quote it better
than I can, I am only on DAY 3 for 4 of my 9 furkids.
Take Care
Trina

On 9/28/07, att_makes_alt <att_makes_alt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "petpalikali" <petpalikali@...>
> wrote:
> >
> When I give her a whole chicken drumstick bone, she chomps it
> > all up at once - swallowing the whole thing. I haven't noticed a
> > problem with it, but was concerned that it wasn't chewed up enough for
> > her to digest. Is this ok, or should I chop the bone into smaller
> > pieces. She's a big girl, about 65 pounds of love.
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Beef feet
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:18 am ((PDT))

My boys love beef feet for chew toys! It takes them a while to work
down to the bones but they have a great dime doing it. If you decide
to buy them make sure you tell them not to cut it up when you order.
More than once the meat guy has assumed I wanted the foot cubed up.
Not much meat on the foot, so I think its better as funtime chewing
than a meal.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carolejc2007" <mooska2me@...> wrote:
>
> The local hispanic market has beef feet advertised for .69 lb. I am
> still new to raw feeding so what I am wondering is if beef feet would
> make a meal or if they are more suitable for something like snacks or
> chews.

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Beef feet
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:28 am ((PDT))

"carolejc2007" <mooska2me@...> wrote:
>
> The local hispanic market has beef feet advertised for .69 lb. I am
> still new to raw feeding so what I am wondering is if beef feet would
> make a meal or if they are more suitable for something like snacks or
> chews.
*****
Chews.
Not food.
Not even snacks.

Whole, unassailable cow feet are the only "rec" bones I give my dogs;
not even my BC (a year old Sunday!) gets less than that. With skin on
(hair off) cow feet are definitely a handful. Um, mouthful. Um,
pawful. And under the skin there's connective tissue and some
crunchable bones (maybe not for your dogs) and several inches of long
bone complete with marrow if you're so inclined. I let my dogs mess
with the marrow--assuming they've gotten that far--before I toss the
bone.

My BC will work all day on a foot with little to show for her efforts
but she sure am content. Sometimes she'll have a bit of predawn
horking to get rid of whatever didn't sit right. To date not a dog has
had any responses worse than that.

And that price is a good one.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Update on my "starving" dog
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:18 am ((PDT))

I agree to a point. I talked about how Geiger just doesn't like duck
for some reason. Now I don't bother making him eat duck, there are
many other fabulous meats he loves to eat. That said, this dog is
just flat refusing to try the food. Starting a raw diet by letting
the dog dictate what they eat sends the wrong signal to the dog.
Down the line if this dog always balks at chicken then by all means,
leave chicken off the menu. If we let our dogs go without the foods
they didn't really like lots of dogs would go without organs
alltogether.

I think having a dog that will at least *try* everything is very
important. If this dog were eating a tiny amount of chicken every
meal I would agree that it is time to go onto another protein.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Misty Sargent <jrtlover27@...>
wrote:
>
> too many people do not LISTEN to their dogs. Dogs can not speak to
> us verbally so they speak to us through their behavior. Your dog
> may be trying to tell you that the chicken does not "agree" with
> her.

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Update on my "starving" dog
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:53 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Misty Sargent <jrtlover27@...>
wrote:
>
> I know many of you will not agree with me on this, but I
> think forcing the dog to eat the chicken is a terrible idea.

Letting the dog decide what he will and will not eat is an even more
terrible idea. There is no way that you can SOMETIMES let him
decide and sometimes not. It's not that way in the dog world.
Everything is "always" or "never".

I have no problem with not feeding your dog something he doesn't
like AFTER he has been on a well rounded diet for a few months. In
the beginning, no way will he decide what he will and will not eat.
He will eat what I give him or he won't eat. It's entirely his
decision.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: Update on my "starving" dog
Posted by: "Misty Sargent" jrtlover27@yahoo.com jrtlover27
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:28 am ((PDT))

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no way would I let my dog lose too much weight or suffer gastrointestinal upset on a regular basis if he is allergic to it. It has been medically proven that my JRT is allergic to beef, and I will NOT force him to eat beef. I'm not suggesting to give up on the raw diet....simply to try another form of meat. Obviously the dog is rejecting the chicken repeatedly, and if you encourage her to hold out forever and the dog continues to refuse to eat, she is going to either have a very sick dog or a dead dog.

When you do not allow your dog to communicate with you, you are setting yourself up for disaster in the long run whether it be behaviorally or with physical problems resulting in huge vet bills. In my opinion, you should have a two way relationship with you dog....not be your dog's dictator.

Misty


carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Misty Sargent <jrtlover27@...>
wrote:
>
> I know many of you will not agree with me on this, but I
> think forcing the dog to eat the chicken is a terrible idea.

Letting the dog decide what he will and will not eat is an even more
terrible idea. There is no way that you can SOMETIMES let him
decide and sometimes not. It's not that way in the dog world.
Everything is "always" or "never".

I have no problem with not feeding your dog something he doesn't
like AFTER he has been on a well rounded diet for a few months. In
the beginning, no way will he decide what he will and will not eat.
He will eat what I give him or he won't eat. It's entirely his
decision.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Seizures
Posted by: "Michelle Grabert" chalienme@yahoo.com chalienme
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:18 am ((PDT))

ca you please tell me what is CH>? thanks , Michelle

jrtsnabc <jrtsnabc@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Brandi,

Raw will definitely help with the seizures! Removing as many impurities from the diet is very important.

You may also ask your friend when the last time her dog was vaccinated, especially for rabies. The rabies vaccine is a big cause for seizures in animals.

Finally, you may suggest she consider working with a Classical Homeopath in addition to the change in diet. A CH can help repair damage that may have been done by vaccines (or inherited vaccinosis) that could be the cause of the seizures. Have her check out the Classical Homeopathy for Pets Yahoo! group.

Seizures cause more seizures so they are likely to continue to increase in number (especially since this is juvenile-onset epilepsy) unless they are somehow brought under control and it doesn't sound like the phenobarbital is really working. Unfortunately, the medications available to "control" epilepsy in canines are, in my opinion, about as damaging as the seizures themselves.

If you want to ask more questions about feeding raw, vaccine damage and CH, you may want to move your inquiries to the RawChat group.

Good luck!

Katherine and the Raw Fed/Vax-free JRTs & BC
Windsor, CO

Subject: [rawfeeding] {Raw Feeding} Seizures

Ok, I got some more information from my friend that has the female

sheltie that's having seizures. She will be 2 in Jan., she started

having seizures in April - started out that wouldn't have the seizures

about every month and they started increasing. Now she's having them

every 2 weeks. She's on 32.16 mg of Phenabarbertor (sp) - half that

amount 16 something which she gives her pup twice a day. She's

interested in RAW if she thinks that it would help her with the

seizures.

__________________________________________________________
Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more!
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/3658

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: {Raw Feeding} Seizures
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:56 am ((PDT))

Michelle Grabert <chalienme@...> wrote:
>
> ca you please tell me what is CH>?
thanks , Michelle
*****
Classical homeopath.
For more information you might want to join RawChat.
Chris o

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. New member here... Need help.
Posted by: "Alexander Dewey" alexanderdewey@yahoo.com alexanderdewey
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:19 am ((PDT))

My name is Alex and I have a pitbull named Gigi...

I'd like to try feeding raw but I'm overwhelmed by all the information that's out there. Can someone coach me along considering Gigi's specifics...

20 Months old (today!)
46 pounds
Very lean, all muscle.
Runs/plays/swims at least 3 hours on most days...

SHE DOES NOT ALWAYS CHEW WHAT SHE EATS...

So, how should I get started?? Pretty much everything is easy for me to buy.

Also, simple questions - please don't make fun...

Exactly what are 'meaty bones'?
And, when I start feeding her chicken, shouldn't they still have their feathers?

Alex Dewey

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: New member here... Need help.
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:53 am ((PDT))

Ok, you can start feeding her about 1lb of food a day. We usually
say to start with chicken because it is easy to find and pretty
cheap. If you can get pork, rabbit, goat etc for reasonable prices
you are free to choose which ever one you want to start with. For
the first week or two feed only one protein source and don't worry
about adding organs in just yet. Since she's a gulper, feed large
pieces that will require that she rips/tears/crunches before she can
swallow. No smaller than chicken quarters.

> Exactly what are 'meaty bones'?

Really, that is a fantastic question! Some people start out thinking
necks and wings are "meaty bones" because they are bones that kind of
have meat on them. When we talk about meaty bones we mean a hunk of
meat with a bone somewhere inside. If you can't make out the shape
of the underlying bone, that is a truly meaty bone.

> And, when I start feeding her chicken, shouldn't they still have
> their feathers?

Whole prey is ideal. Most of us don't have access to unprocessed
animals, so we do what we can. Some dogs flat out refuse to eat
something that still has its fur/feathers. If you can get whole
chickens, by all means try them! But if you can't or your girl won't
eat it that way do not fret.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: How do I start?
Posted by: "one_sojourner_one" onesojourner@gmail.com one_sojourner_one
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:15 am ((PDT))

> "If you won't eat what you are feeding your dog, its not good enough
> to feed him either."
> Bill Carnes

Please tell us you are not eating raw chicken quarters for dinner! ;)

peter

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: How do I start?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:52 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "one_sojourner_one"
<onesojourner@...> wrote:
>
>
> > "If you won't eat what you are feeding your dog, its not good
enough
> > to feed him either."
> > Bill Carnes
>
> Please tell us you are not eating raw chicken quarters for
dinner! ;)

NO, but I eat BBQ chicken quarters pretty regularly. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Whole Turkey Necks
Posted by: "GWiesmore" gwiesmore@yahoo.com GWiesmore
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:15 am ((PDT))

Our 5 month old bullmastiff absolutely loves turkey necks. We used to
cut them up into small 1"x1" chunks, but then our breeder told us that
chewing the full neck would be better for her teeth and exercising her
jaws. Here's the rub... When we give her a whole turkey neck, she
chews the fat end just enough to break up the bones and make it
skinnier, then swallows the darned thing whole. Although she doesn't
exhibit any negative signs after swallowing the neck whole, I'm
concerned that the length of the neck is not going to fit in her
stomach and hurt her. These things are 8"-9" long.

Here are my questions:
1) Is this normal?
2) Will swallowing this thing whole hurt her?
3) Should we cut the necks into smaller chunks (defeating the purpose
of the raw meaty bone for her teeth and jaws?

Thanks,
Greg

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Whole Turkey Necks
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:53 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "GWiesmore" <gwiesmore@...> wrote:
>
> Here's the rub... When we give her a whole turkey neck, she
> chews the fat end just enough to break up the bones and make it
> skinnier, then swallows the darned thing whole.

> Here are my questions:
> 1) Is this normal?

It's pretty much how my Danes chew turkey necks. They chew it up
until its kind of a long string of mush then swallow it.
Occasionally they will hork it back up, chew a little more then
swallow again.

> 2) Will swallowing this thing whole hurt her?

No

> 3) Should we cut the necks into smaller chunks (defeating
> the purpose of the raw meaty bone for her teeth and jaws?

No ... Mine eat the big long ones about a foot long.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
Posted by: "Michelle Grabert" chalienme@yahoo.com chalienme
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:51 am ((PDT))

***EDITED BY MODERATOR. TRIM YOUR MESSAGES!***

ok, thanks Chris. another question, might seem funny or stupid but I am not trying to be. Someone had mentioned feeder mice and rats being good prey model food for cats..Well, got me wondering about goldfish. Heck, can get 100 of them here for probably five dollars. woul they be good for cats? They can grow quite big too..would the bigger ones be good for pups.? any nutritinal value in this type of fish for them? michelle

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:04 am ((PDT))

Michelle Grabert <chalienme@...> wrote:
another question, might seem funny or stupid but I am not trying to
be.
*****
Nope, it's a perfectly logical question.

got me wondering about goldfish. Heck, can get 100 of them here for
probably five dollars. woul they be good for cats?
*****
Others know lots more about cats than I do. My take on this is fish
are not necessarily species appropriate to a cat's diet so while an
occasional fish is okay, a steady diet is not. Also, the nutritional
value of goldfish/carp/any fish is directly related to the goldfish's
diet. If you can feed goldfish a good natural diet they will be more
useful to your cat than dimestore goldfish fed goldfish food flakes.

Yes, the larger ones can be fed to dogs. Whether the cat or dogs
will eat the carp remains to be seen.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9. Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:53 am ((PDT))

I have a few dogs needing medications.
One is my Dal & he takes alot of medicines. He's old & sick & cranky!
I usually give it in a ball of canned food but would like to give it in
something raw based...I don't want to feed the canned crap any more.
Hamburger? I am hearing alot more on a different list about feeding raw
burger... I thought it wasn't a main source? Advice welcomed here. i also
thought about grinding up chicken necks and using them in little balls with
pills.

On a totally off the main food: will raw help (could it) my Dal's
temperament who is getting worse. He is in pain & on pain meds but he is
also a butthead! He accidentally bit me this morning in my calf when he
didn't like my other dog in his space. It wasn't nice & it isn't pretty
looking onmy leg!! Thankfully it isn't shorts weather. I don't want to go
off topic here, just hoping others have dealt with raw & temperamental dogs
& would like to know if there was any difference: good, bad or otherwise? I
will be adding another pain med in his diet now. But any natural foods in
RAW that can work as a natural pain reliever?
Trina
--
Chip (deaf Dalmatian)
Casper (deaf Great Dane)
Whisper (deaf Great Dane)
Louie (hearing Great Dane)
Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso)
Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso)
Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Confused about beef bones
Posted by: "cleone4100@aol.com" cleone4100@aol.com cleone4100
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:54 am ((PDT))

Thanks, I will look for some other meatier and safer bones for them to chew
on. Carey, Biscuit & Gravy

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. Re: Confused about beef bones
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:13 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cleone4100" <cleone4100@...> wrote:
> I get a bag from the grocery store that contains knuckles (knees &
> hocks?) and sawn portions of the leg bone.

I would toss the whole lot - both the knuckle and marrow bones. You
can make soup with them if you're into that sort of thing.

You should find that feeding a raw diet does a good job of cleaning
the teeth. It's sort of the difference between using a soft
toothbrush on your teeth everyday versus a wire-bristled brush only
occasionally.

Olga

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: bones in poo!
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:07 am ((PDT))

I feed neck bones with extra added meat (like some heart, frequently).
Also, chicken wings and necks are too small for a 50 lb dog, not to
mention also too heavy in bone unless you are adding a lot of boneless
meat. If you feed too much bone, you will find bone pieces in the
stool in my experience, because their system can only digest so much
of it.

Also, how many times have you fed beef? In my experience it's richer
than poultry and pork, so I had to feed small amounts of it first and
give it a few tries before my two had firm stools on it. Beef is a
very worthwhile protein to feed. As far as turkey, have you tried
more meaty pieces? Same for pork, more meaty. :D

Olga

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "patti.h310" <patti.h310@...> wrote:
> I'm new to raw feeding and my 50lb. Beardie loves me for it. However,
> he's very particular! Chicken wings and leg quarters are ok, but he
> won't touch necks. Beef Ribs give him loose stooles. Won't touch
> turkey necks or any kind of liver. Will not even consider lamb. He
> loves pork neck bones but sometimes I find large, quarter sized pieces
> of hard bone in his poo. (I poked it with a stick!) Should I stop
> giving him the pork neck bones?

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: Demodex
Posted by: "Michelle Grabert" chalienme@yahoo.com chalienme
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:28 am ((PDT))

Irene, with the lavender oil..may I ask what yu can use as the carrier oils? thanks, Michelle

Denise Strother <denisestrother@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Christy,

I am not the one with the bulldog, but I do fostering and come
across more than my fair share of demodex. Yes, raw feeding will
make a huge difference with demodex. Here's the deal. All dogs have
demodex mites. They live in the hair follicles. The mites migrate
from the momma dog to the puppies and most of the time are not an
issue. BTW, people can have these mites. Anyway, the mites become a
problem when the dogs immune system is not good. The mites overgrow
and cause the problem. The vets normally treat the symptom, the
mites, instead of the illness, a bad immune system. Feeding raw and
not poisoning the dog helps to repair the immune system. You can put
a few drops of lavender essential oil in a carrier oil and apply it
to the itchy spot th relieve the itching. There are other things you
can do also, I'm sure others will give you recipes for anti-itch
stuff. I like the oil based ones because it seems like the oil based
stuff works better on demodex to sooth the skin. I'm sure homeopathy
will help. I haven't tried that because of the expense and because
rawfeeding, no vaccinations, no poison, no antibiotics and a little
lavender oil have done the trick. The last foster I had with demodex
had generalized demo and went from having no hair to hair all over
in about 6 weeks. I'm sure you will hear from other rescuers and
fosters especially. Hope this helps. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cr008k" <crakoczy@...> wrote:
Molly has a mild case of localized demodex and was put on some kind
of medicine from the vet that she gets orally by a syringe once a
day. My question, for the person who said they fed their bulldog
with demodex on raw and that the dog was looking great (or anyone
else who has experience with this) will the raw food really have an
affect on the demodex and if so, how long will it take to see an
improvement in her itching. She's been on the meds from the vet for
almost 3 weeks and she still has a red spot on one of her legs and
she is still itching :( We're planning on starting on chickens
(either whole or the chicken quarters) and then slowly introducing
other proteins and organs.
Thanks!
Christy

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------