Feed Pets Raw Food: Nov 28, 2007

Wednesday, November 28, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12328

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Poultry Backs
From: Andrea
1b. Re: Poultry Backs
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: Poultry Backs
From: nkayl
1d. Re: Poultry Backs
From: Morledzep@aol.com
1e. Re: Poultry Backs
From: costrowski75
1f. Re: Poultry Backs
From: Morledzep@aol.com

2a. Re: Cow Bones
From: swilken61
2b. Re: Cow Bones
From: costrowski75
2c. Re: Cow Bones
From: merril Woolf

3a. Re: Little update re: introducing new protein
From: recyclerat@aol.com

4a. Re: Dog with persistent diarrhea
From: Tina Berry
4b. Re: Dog with persistent diarrhea
From: Giselle
4c. Re: Dog with persistent diarrhea
From: costrowski75

5a. bare chicken bones (was Re: Feeding large bone?
From: Sarah

6a. Re: De-feathering poultry
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: New - Intro - dog with possible kidney disease
From: Sandee Lee

8. Volume of stools?
From: mozookpr

9a. HELP A FIRST TIMER....
From: amber
9b. Re: HELP A FIRST TIMER....
From: Morledzep@aol.com
9c. Re: HELP A FIRST TIMER....
From: Sandee Lee

10a. Re: math help, please and thank you!
From: spricketysprock

11a. Re: Support when making the switch?
From: johkemp
11b. Re: Support when making the switch?
From: merril Woolf

12a. Re: Vomiting after meals
From: Casey Post
12b. Meaty deer bone supply in Mont. Co. Md.
From: steven muse

Messages
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1a. Re: Poultry Backs
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:34 am ((PST))

Not by themselves, but you can add some meaty meat to them to make a
better meal. By themselves you'll probably end up with rock hard white
poos. Over time you want to average out mostly meat and only a little
bone.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "nkayl" <doglover72@...> wrote:

> Yesterday I found a great deal on Turkey backs. All were half off.
> Yay!! Anyway, my question is do these have enough meat on them for a
> Pug?

Messages in this topic (7)
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1b. Re: Poultry Backs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:16 am ((PST))

"nkayl" <doglover72@...> wrote:

> Yesterday I found a great deal on Turkey backs. All were half off.
> Yay!! Anyway, my question is do these have enough meat on them for a
> Pug? They looked fairly meaty to me, but I'm not sure.
*****
Like chicken backs, turkey backs are not what you'd call meaty bones.
A good processor gets all the meat off; even a hasty trimmer can take
off most of the meat.

But--also like chicken backs--they are good for chomping. So two
options. If your puglets are good with bony meals, offer a turkey back
after and before meaty meals. Or if they can't handle really bony
meals, feed the back with added meat; if that's too much food for one
sitting take the back away when you think enough's enough.

I used to be able to get whole turkey backs. For my retrievers, these
were pretty good eating (maybe two pounds each), as long as I added
some meat. If the backs you found are sliced into 2" or 3" sections,
you can more easily add meat to the meal. But make sure your pugs are
okay with sawed slices and relatively small pieces.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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1c. Re: Poultry Backs
Posted by: "nkayl" doglover72@gmail.com nkayl
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:47 pm ((PST))

Thank you!! These backs were about 6 or so inches long. The Pugs are
great at eating the bones. I will add more meat when they get the
backs. Now if only my Pit/Lab mix would eat poultry. :)

Natalie

Messages in this topic (7)
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1d. Re: Poultry Backs
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:42 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 11/28/2007 10:13:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,
doglover72@gmail.com writes:

They looked fairly meaty to me, but I'm not sure.

Natalie,

they are backs and by their very nature are NOT meaty. But they are BIG and
from what i hear BIG is a good thing when you're feeding pugs. Maybe give
them one night as a bony meal and an all meat meal the following night?

i DO feed turkey backs to by big dogs. they often go on sale for $.20 - 30
lb after thanksgiving and christmas and for that price i can find some cheap
meat for a followup meal.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (7)
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1e. Re: Poultry Backs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:51 pm ((PST))

Morledzep@... wrote:
they often go on sale for $.20 - 30
> lb after thanksgiving and christmas and for that price i can find
some cheap
> meat for a followup meal.
*****
Grumble, grumble.
I USED to be able to get these things for .39/lb, up until maybe '04.
No problem. A local chain used to produce them regularly. What a joy.

Then raw feeding got more popular and I had to act quickly to beat
those who wanted to GRIND these lovely whole backs. GRIND!!

And then, if that's not insult enough, the chain had to stop producing
them altogether because they were unable to label which backs came from
minimally processed birds and which came from enhanced birds. Another
source dried up. <sigh>
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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1f. Re: Poultry Backs
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:00 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 11/28/2007 1:51:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Chriso75@AOL.COM writes:

Chris,

the Ralph's store at Towngate parts out the fresh minimally processed birds
shortly after thanksgiving and christmas and sells the parts CHEAP.

I'm heading over there after work on Friday to start stocking up..

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (7)
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2a. Re: Cow Bones
Posted by: "swilken61" powrfemme@aol.com swilken61
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:42 am ((PST))

Please define "at length". My girls knaw on lamb shoulder bones,
sometimes for a half hour. They are 10 and 15 lb terrier mixes.

thanks,
stephany

Messages in this topic (15)
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2b. Re: Cow Bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:21 am ((PST))

"swilken61" <powrfemme@...> wrote:>
> Please define "at length". My girls knaw on lamb shoulder bones,
> sometimes for a half hour. They are 10 and 15 lb terrier mixes.
*****
Well, if you are referring to my "at length", I was referring to the
OPs comment that her dogs amuse themselves for hours. "For hours"
is "at length" to me. YMMV.

However, lamb shoulder bones, IMO, are not rec bones, they are edible
bones that maybe sometimes just don't get et. My 10lb cat likes to
gnaw away on lamb shoulder bones. These are soft bones from young
animals that did not have a lot of weight to lug around, nor for very
long.

Lamb shoulder bones for half an hour sounds okay to me. But remember:
sh** happens.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (15)
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2c. Re: Cow Bones
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:05 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "windmilldairy" <drwindmill@...> wrote:
>
> Besides the ribs, what cow/beef bones are safe for dogs?
>
> Pat

Cow bones are very big and very hard so if you have cows for them to eat, try and make sure
there is a huge amount of meat on the bones so much of the meal is from the meat they rip
and tear off the bone.
Mine do gnaw on big cow bones, but they always come with plenty of meat to start with.
A hungry dog can cause some dental damage if they get too frantic trying to get small bits
of meat and grissle off a essentially meatless cow bone.

Mine are getting cow bones for dinner today but they are very meaty. :-))

Merril

Messages in this topic (15)
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3a. Re: Little update re: introducing new protein
Posted by: "recyclerat@aol.com" recyclerat@aol.com syrusmommy
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:42 am ((PST))

Thanks again to everyone who takes the time to answer questions over and
over. It's
really helpful!

Michelle
****************************
Amen!

.heather.

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
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Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Dog with persistent diarrhea
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:42 am ((PST))

"Obviously, not giving her access to the beach is the first step. But in the
meantime, what do I do? Shall I fast her for 24 hours? Should I give her
something herbal? Do I just continue to give her skinless/fatless chicken?"

Sounds like a reaction to the sea water. I've always had success using pure
100% raw pumkin for loose stools. A couple of tablespoons with her meals.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: Dog with persistent diarrhea
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:44 am ((PST))

Hi, Marlena!
Drinking sea water can be fatal for dogs, and humans;

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/msaltwater.html
http://iccoventry.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/content_objectid=13450879_method=full_siteid=50003_headline=-Swim-kills-family-pet-name_page.html#story_continue
*http://tinyurl.com/ypss3g
*http://www.dogguide.net/water-dogs.php*
*http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1214573

I would fast your dog for a day, give plenty of LOW sodium low fat broth,
and get him to the VET for an eval ASAP.

And never let those friends watch my dog again!

After she's been to the vet, I'd dose her with some Slippery Elm Bark
meatballs for a couple days, and gradually reintroduce leaner meats that
have soft bones before resuming her regular diet.
*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/145285

*TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Nov 28, 2007 12:36 PM, marlena_adema <marlena_adema@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> I have searched the archives, but haven't found out what to do for a
> dog with persistent diarrhea.
>

> <snip>
>
> But now, it is explosive liquid and a yellowy-green color. Truth is,
> I don't think it's the food. She was being looked after by some
> friends while I was away, and apparently she had been drinking sea
> water. Obviously, not giving her access to the beach is the first
> step. But in the meantime, what do I do? Shall I fast her for 24
> hours? Should I give her something herbal? Do I just continue to
> give her skinless/fatless chicken?
>
> Thanks kindly for any advice,
> Marlena
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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4c. Re: Dog with persistent diarrhea
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:32 am ((PST))

"Tina Berry" <k9baron@...> wrote:
>> Sounds like a reaction to the sea water. I've always had success
using pure
> 100% raw pumkin for loose stools. A couple of tablespoons with her
meals.
*****
I am not a fan of or user of pumpkin. If there are loose stools, the
cause of the loose stool should be identified and dietary changes
should be made accordingly. Loose stools are almost always a result of
too much. It's easy to fix too much. At the very least I choose not
to add an inappropriate food to an already bolluxed up digestive system.

However, diarrhea is not about too much food. It's probably not about
too much sea water. The description to me suggests a bacterial
overgrowth, from drinking sea water or infection or virus. Adding
pumpkin to this problem will just result in pumpkin squirts.
Persistent diarrhea is dehydrating: pumpkin (any fiber) absorbs water.
A dehydrated dog does not need further dehydrating.

I would think encouraging the dog to drink (broth maybe) while
withholding food would be basic. Parvaid might be useful, perhaps
Pedialyte. A conversation with the vet might not be wrong either.

No pumpkin.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. bare chicken bones (was Re: Feeding large bone?
Posted by: "Sarah" hecarte@hotmail.com sarah_uk_2000_2001
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:43 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Sarah,
>
> The re-freezing is ok, but you might want to reconsider feeding naked
> chicken bones. If you know your dog is a careful eater, it might be
> fine. But for a newbie, I'd be more cautious (I'm on the more
cautious
> side, anyway...).

Yes, I'll save them for a while I think. He is really good at
crunching up chicken bones so far, but they have had meat on them. I
suppose I could hold it for him and see what he does or is this not a
good idea?

Thanks, Sarah (UK)

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: De-feathering poultry
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:56 am ((PST))

"Jane Boswell" <famtimes@...> wrote:
> A friend of mine just dropped by and asked
> me if I'll take fresh game birds - ducks, geese
> (Mergansers sp?) whole - meaning feathers and
> all. I wasn't about to turn down anything.
*****
Yes! Free is good. Free game is gooder! Way to go.

You don't have to defrock the flock for your dog's benefit, but if
you really would rather, there are several ways.

The for-human-consumption method is tedious and doesn't produce a
very pretty picture unless a de-featherer tumbler is used. Pricey.
Sort of undoes the free part. You can also dunk the birds in boiling
water, not something I particularly want to do.

The for-dog-consumption method is you stand over a garbage can and
pull the feathers out, with the grain. You'll get most of the
feathers, certainly enough so that they shouldn't be offputting to
your dog.

Don't forget to check for shotgun pellets. While the F&W guys are
almost assuredly using non-lead shot, the pellets may harm your dog's
teeth.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. Re: New - Intro - dog with possible kidney disease
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:26 am ((PST))

Tammy,

I do understand your paranoia after loosing a 7-year-old Dane....been there,
done that! :(

But were there abnormalities in the bloodwork that motivated you to check
further? Do you have the blood and urinalysis results?
You may not even have an issue here...regardless, raw is definitely going to
be the best for this guy.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Pundah" <Pundah@comcast.net>

> Thanks everyone for the tips. Yes, Sandee - we ran blood work in August.
Long story. After we lost our Dane Reb in July, I was frightened and
paranoid and told their regular vet to do full work ups. They did blood
panels only and I was ignorant about urinalysis. Still feeling uneasy I
interviewed more vets and this one wanted the urinalysis as well. I will
definitely check out these other resources. Thank you all!

Messages in this topic (7)
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8. Volume of stools?
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:09 pm ((PST))

My apologies, as I am certain this has been addressed before, but
searching on stools, runny or otherwise, has produced such an
overwhelimg number of hits that it makes my head spin!

We are now on day three of rawfeeding, I have started with chicken as
recommended. Foxy's stools have been normal, although smaller
(yay!), but Sophie's are not only runny, which I kind of expected,
but much less in volume. Should I be concerned about this, or is it
just a result of her actually digesting more of her food? She was
pooping 3-4 BIG poops a day on Wellness kibble, so the decrease has
been pretty dramatic. She is a 20 lb. Sheltie puppy, approaching 5
months, and is fed twice a day, most of a chicken quarter at one
meal, a bit less at the other. She seems fine, other that the tiny,
runny (and, I regret to say, frequent) stools. She did sometimes
have the same issues on kibble, too, so could be she just has a
touchy tummy and will take longer to adjust? Like I said, the tiny
volume concerns me more than the runniness: I want to make sure all
that is going in...is actually coming OUT.

Other than this, all seems well. Both dogs loves their meals, and I
enjoy watching them eat with such enthusiasm. Foxy doesn't much like
eating in his crate, but it is a must, if I don't want raw chicken
parts all over the couch.

Thanks for your patience and advice!

Wendy, Foxy, and Sophie

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9a. HELP A FIRST TIMER....
Posted by: "amber" AMBEECHY@AOL.COM ambeechy3676
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:41 pm ((PST))

I have been reading about going raw for a few months now and I would
like to take the first step but I need ALOT of help. I have two pit
bulls. Piper is my female. She is 22 months and about 55-60lbs and has
food allegies that i haven't been able to figure out... Milenko is my
male. He is 8 months old and about 35-40lbs with no allegies.

I went to the grocery store and got some chicken breast, turkey backs,
turkey knecks, pork tails and beef marrow bones. I figured I would
start with the plain boneless chicken breast for a few days and then a
breast on the bone...is that good to start with? Should I take the skin
off the chicken thats on the bone? is there anything I need to remove
or watch out for? After two weeks of chicken I thought if all was well
I would move to the turkey.

ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!
- AMBER

Messages in this topic (3)
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9b. Re: HELP A FIRST TIMER....
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:00 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 11/28/2007 1:41:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
AMBEECHY@AOL.COM writes:

Amber,

why buy chicken parts? just buy whole chickens, they are cheaper and easier
and less likely to be enhanced. my male pit bull and the other similarly
sized dogs here eat about half a chicken at a sitting, sometimes 1/4 chickens if i
have to make the chickens stretch further.

no need to start with boneless.. just feed chicken the way you find it, with
the bones and the skin.. IF after a week or so their loose stools don't
subside (there WILL be some as with any diet change), reduce the size of the meals
and/or remove the chicken skin, though reducing the size of the meals will
probably be the answer.

you need to rethink your turkey part purchases.. unless you have meaty meat
to add to necks and backs, their best use is to make soup. The same goes for
beef marrow bones. the fat in the marrow will cause loose stools and the bone
around the marrow will break teeth.. no matter which way ya slice it, it's not
wolf chow.

think MEAT on a bone.. NOT bone with some meat. you want to feed primarily
meat, with a little edible bone and some organs.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (3)
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9c. Re: HELP A FIRST TIMER....
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:43 pm ((PST))

Hi Amber,

You can start right out with bone-in chicken...just buy the entire chicken
and cut into quarters. No need to remove skin unless they begin have
problems such as loose stools you aren't able to get under control.

Turkey backs and necks are far too bony and necks can be a choking hazard
for some dogs. You'll have to see how your dogs do with them. Either way
you'll need to add more meat. Again, you might be better off just buying
the entire bird, especially if you can still find some on sale now or closer
to the Christmas holidays.

Pig tails are probably a nice treat, but not a meal...and you don't want
marrow bones at all.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "amber" <AMBEECHY@AOL.COM>

Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. Re: math help, please and thank you!
Posted by: "spricketysprock" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:08 pm ((PST))

Thanks guys. I would weigh it but have no scale. I'll stick with 10
cubes and see what happens.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@> wrote:
> My dog is
> > 69 pounds and eats about a pound or a bit over a day. For organs
> I've
> > been getting liver and kidney, chopping it up, and freezing pieces
> in
> > ice cube trays. Could anyone tell me around how many cubes a week
> > would suffice for a dog his weight?
> *****
> If you want to get down to brass tacks, it depends on how big the
> cubes are. I have made ice cubes that are two ounces each and I have
> made teensy ice cubes that are maybe an ounce each. If your ice
> cubes are "normal" size, my guess is they measure two ounces if you
> fill them full. But that's volume not weight, so like so what.
>
> See how unnecessarily complicated life gets when you try to measure
> things out?
>
> I think 10 cubes a week are fine. If this amount generates loose
> stools and you don't want to see loose stools, back off to seven
> cubes.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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11a. Re: Support when making the switch?
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:03 pm ((PST))

I think most of us have received the same reactions that you have when
we switched to raw!! I think that many people feel that we are judging
them personally when we disagree with their choices.

There was another response that covered just about everything that I
wanted to say. People will always have an opinion on what you do -
especially family. They will feel free to comment on your dog, your
kids, your weight, your housekeeping (or in my case lack of it :-) and
even your choice of partner!

Do your research so you feel comfortable with your choice and just
agree to disagree!! You and your dogs are the ones that will benefit
and as they say "The proof is in the pudding."

Cheers,

Messages in this topic (15)
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11b. Re: Support when making the switch?
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:23 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "johkemp" <johkemp@...> wrote:
>
>
> I think most of us have received the same reactions that you have when
> we switched to raw!! I think that many people feel that we are judging
> them personally when we disagree with their choices.

> Do your research so you feel comfortable with your choice and just
> agree to disagree!! You and your dogs are the ones that will benefit
> and as they say "The proof is in the pudding."
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jo
>

This same time next year will be your vindication.
I always let my dogs do the talking. If a proper diet is working, it will show on the dogs.
When you have your family/friends over next year for TG, you might find those same nay-
sayers quite speechless. They'll look at your healthy dog/s and not be able to say much
in the negative.

I get ribbed by a few about my raw fed dogs, but they can't argue about how they look or
run. Many other dog owners with working dogs either already feed raw or have after
seeing how well the raw dogs do in competition.
And having dogs live healthily into old age, is, as they say - priceless.

Merril

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12a. Re: Vomiting after meals
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:52 pm ((PST))

> Other than the vomiting, he is acting perfectly normal.

Rachelle,

If he were a cat, I'd suggest trying his food at room temperature. And
thinking on it, I'm still going to suggest feeding him some room temperature
food and see how he does. I know you've done the "warming under water"
thing, but that'll still leave a chilly bit in the middle and if it's the
cold setting him off...

An issue like this that crops up for no apparent reason and hangs around a
while is enough to make me go, "Hmmm." and schedule a vet visit for a good
once over look-see just to make sure that there isn't something else amiss
and this is just a symptom.

Casey

Messages in this topic (5)
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12b. Meaty deer bone supply in Mont. Co. Md.
Posted by: "steven muse" musesteven@yahoo.com musesteven
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:32 pm ((PST))

Great source of meaty deer bones in MO CO, Md (off of I-270)! I found a deer processor (butcher) that I've been getting 10 gal bucket's (approx 25 +/- lbs.) full of meaty deer bones and scraps (chunks of meat & fat). Meat is free, but the bucket costs $10. (since your not allowed to sell game meat). If you live in the MO CO, Md area near I-270 e-mail me at westvasteve@aol and I'll get you his info. My dogs love em'.

If you don't live in the area, call your local coop or ask the local hunter where the closest deer processor is and ask him for his scraps.

steve

---------------------------------
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12327

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Feeding large bone?
From: Andrea

2a. Re: Feeding whole chicken tomorrow, last question ! :)
From: Andrea
2b. Re: Feeding whole chicken tomorrow, last question ! :)
From: mmc2315

3a. Re: math help, please and thank you!
From: Andrea
3b. Re: math help, please and thank you!
From: costrowski75

4a. FEEDING DOG TWICE AS RECOMMENDED
From: bel_the
4b. Re: FEEDING DOG TWICE AS RECOMMENDED
From: carnesbill
4c. Re: FEEDING DOG TWICE AS RECOMMENDED
From: costrowski75

5a. De-feathering poultry
From: Jane Boswell
5b. Re: De-feathering poultry
From: carnesbill
5c. Re: De-feathering poultry
From: Jane Boswell
5d. Re: De-feathering poultry
From: judy tallant

6a. Re: Vomiting after meals
From: Andrea

7a. Re: Cow Bones
From: costrowski75
7b. Re: Cow Bones
From: costrowski75

8a. Re: rawfeeding Deer meat
From: costrowski75
8b. Re: rawfeeding Deer meat
From: Tina Berry

9a. Re: Beef heart and other meats
From: Erika

10a. Three pounds/day for 100 lb dog
From: Hanne

11a. Re: Duck Hearts
From: Sonja

12a. Re: Beef Heart? and other meats :)
From: Tina Berry

13a. Re: Salmon Oil/How much???
From: Tina Berry

14. Poultry Backs
From: nkayl

15. Dog with persistent diarrhea
From: marlena_adema

16a. bare chicken bones (was Re: Feeding large bone?
From: Laurie Swanson

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Feeding large bone?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:35 am ((PST))

I try not to feed bones that only have a little meat on them. If I can
see the shape of the bone there isn't enough meat for me. My GSP mix
is pretty prone to bone bit vomit if he eats a particularly boney
meal. If it were me I might pack some ground meat around the bone and
feed it frozen. If nothing else I'd feed meaty meat first and then
give the bone.

> Also, is it ok to refreeze things for dogs?

Yup, freezing/thawing/freezing only really changes the texture of the
meat, that's why humans don't generally do it.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Feeding whole chicken tomorrow, last question ! :)
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:41 am ((PST))

Snowy will be fine with the bones in the chicken. If he's not up to
crunching through all the bones yet it's ok. With newbie dogs the
problem is their jaw strength needs to be built up not that the bone is
too hard. As long as you don't give super dense bones like cow femurs
Snowy's teeth will be fine.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "shefy7" <shefy7@...> wrote:

> just wanted to make sure this will be ok to feed snowy? (he's 20
> pounds and can barely fit a tennis ball in his mouth..) i don't
> want him getting any cracked teeth...

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Feeding whole chicken tomorrow, last question ! :)
Posted by: "mmc2315" m.chelap@sbcglobal.net mmc2315
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:03 am ((PST))

Hi, we haven't fed a whole chicken yet, but we've fed our little 10# cairn terrier mix chicken
quarters (thigh and leg) and bone-in chicken breast, no problem.

Good luck,

Michelle

Messages in this topic (4)
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________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: math help, please and thank you!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:46 am ((PST))

I guess that would depend on how much each cube weighs. 10% of the
weekly diet would be roughly 3/4lb. You could either weigh the cubes
and see how many you need or you could start with 3/4lb organs before
you chop them up, or you could wing it. I'd go for winging it.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@...>
wrote:

> Could anyone tell me around how many cubes a week would suffice for a
> dog his weight? He's a senior and I want to make sure he's getting
> all his nutrients without going overboard (he gets plenty of meat
> variety).

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: math help, please and thank you!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:22 am ((PST))

"spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@...> wrote:
My dog is
> 69 pounds and eats about a pound or a bit over a day. For organs
I've
> been getting liver and kidney, chopping it up, and freezing pieces
in
> ice cube trays. Could anyone tell me around how many cubes a week
> would suffice for a dog his weight?
*****
If you want to get down to brass tacks, it depends on how big the
cubes are. I have made ice cubes that are two ounces each and I have
made teensy ice cubes that are maybe an ounce each. If your ice
cubes are "normal" size, my guess is they measure two ounces if you
fill them full. But that's volume not weight, so like so what.

See how unnecessarily complicated life gets when you try to measure
things out?

I think 10 cubes a week are fine. If this amount generates loose
stools and you don't want to see loose stools, back off to seven
cubes.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. FEEDING DOG TWICE AS RECOMMENDED
Posted by: "bel_the" bel_the@yahoo.com bel_the
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:03 am ((PST))

hello rawfeeders. i'm just curious, if i feed my dog twice as much as
recommended, do i have to feed my dog the next day?
for example, as per calculation, my dog has to consume 500 grams of
protein daily. now, if i feed 1000 grams today, should i still have to
feed (or skip feeding) him the next day?
thanks.
BEL

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: FEEDING DOG TWICE AS RECOMMENDED
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:34 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "bel_the" <bel_the@...> wrote:
>
> hello rawfeeders. i'm just curious, if i feed my dog twice as
> much as recommended, do i have to feed my dog the next day?
> for example, as per calculation, my dog has to consume 500
> grams of protein daily. now, if i feed 1000 grams today, should
> i still have to feed (or skip feeding) him the next day?

It depends on how long you have been raw feeding and what your past
feeding habits were. You can do what you propose but I suggest you
build up to it gradually, not just all of a sudden. Feeding large
meals suddenly can cause digestive problems. Several people here
feed every other day on a regular basis.

Also, your reasoning is a little off about another thing. You are
not feeding pure protein. You are feeding somewhere around 20%
protein. The rest is mostly water and fat. If you feed your dog
1000 grams of food, only about 200 grams is protein.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: FEEDING DOG TWICE AS RECOMMENDED
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:46 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "bel_the" <bel_the@...> wrote:
>
> hello rawfeeders. i'm just curious, if i feed my dog twice as much as
> recommended, do i have to feed my dog the next day?
*****
No. This is how I generally feed my dogs; sometimes more than twice
the "daily allotment". Sometimes I skip a day, then feed small amounts
the day following that.

If you daily feed twice the appropriate amount, you will have a fat
dog.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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________________________________________________________________________

5a. De-feathering poultry
Posted by: "Jane Boswell" famtimes@blazenetme.net famtimes2001
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:03 am ((PST))

Hello,

A friend of mine just dropped by and asked
me if I'll take fresh game birds - ducks, geese
(Mergansers sp?) whole - meaning feathers and
all. I wasn't about to turn down anything. He
bird-hunts regularly and actually goes out
with the State Fish & Game people to shoot Mergansers
that disturb the Salmon. They always throw
these away he said. He also doesn't keep all the ducks
he shoots - some are too small I guess. He's also
going to give me the carcasses - legs and all
after he just cuts the breasts off ducks, geese
and pheasants. I was elated, to say the least.

Anyway, my question is: does anyone know
where I can learn how to pull the feathers out
of a game bird?

Jane Boswell

Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: De-feathering poultry
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:34 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jane Boswell" <famtimes@...> wrote:
>
> Anyway, my question is: does anyone know
> where I can learn how to pull the feathers out
> of a game bird?

Just take them in your hand and pull straight back and they will come
out. :) I THINK if you soak them in hot watter, they come out
easier.

I know some who feed whole chickens with feathers on and let the dogs
defeather them. I think this would best be done outside. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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5c. Re: De-feathering poultry
Posted by: "Jane Boswell" famtimes@blazenetme.net famtimes2001
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:13 am ((PST))

>
> Just take them in your hand and pull straight back and they will come
> out. :) I THINK if you soak them in hot watter, they come out
> easier.

Thanks! I knew it had to be something logical and simple. I'm not sure
I'm up to letting my dogs do it. I can see the neighbors now...

Jane

Messages in this topic (4)
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5d. Re: De-feathering poultry
Posted by: "judy tallant" judy@tallant.com judyltallant
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:13 am ((PST))

When I was a farm girl, I butchered a lot of chickens. We removed
feathers quite easily by dipping the whole bird in a canner filled
with scalding hot water, for about 30-60 seconds. The feathers
literally wiped off - we only had to tweezer a couple of little hair
type feathers here and there - for our palette. But you wouldn't need
to do that for the dogs. We did this with very freshly killed birds,
so I don't know if it works the same way for birds that have been
dead a while.

On Nov 28, 2007, at 6:55 AM, Jane Boswell wrote:

> Anyway, my question is: does anyone know
> where I can learn how to pull the feathers out
> of a game bird?

Judy Tallant
Snohomish, Wa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Vomiting after meals
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:09 am ((PST))

I have some additional questions as well.

Is he eating too quickly or bolting his food?

Is there much ripping/tearing/crunching involved in his meals or is it
more like crunch/swallow?

Andrea

On Nov 27, 2007, at 5:21 PM, sphynxlover2 wrote:
> .,....Other than the vomiting, he is acting perfectly normal. He
> has been
> having bowel movements normally, though they are smaller, urinating
> normally, happily taking his daily walks, etc. I know that he's not
> going to starve to death from missing a few meals and he doesn't
> appear to have lost much if any weight, but it bothers me that this
> has become a recurring issue. Does anyone have any ideas that I
> might not have thought of (and I'll admit there are probably many,
> that's why I'm here!).

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Cow Bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:13 am ((PST))

DM H <hawks.bluff@...> wrote:
>
> My dogs enjoy knuckle (soup) and marrow bones.
> They'll spend hours trying to get every little scrap
> off. :-)
>
> Donna
*****
Donna, these are the kind of bones that break, fracture and wear down
dog teeth. Spending hours on the weight-bearing bones of cows is how
dogs get themselves into trouble. I recommend you rethink letting your
dogs work at length on any bone and especially on what we without
affection call "wreck bones."

There are other ways to keep your dogs amused.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
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7b. Re: Cow Bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:39 am ((PST))

"windmilldairy" <drwindmill@...> wrote:>
> Besides the ribs, what cow/beef bones are safe for dogs?
*****
The easiest and safest default answer is: None.

However, some dogs do okay on meaty necks. Not slices of the neck,
the whole neck, or a length of neck cut into two, like a French
bagette.
Not much meat but enough to work for, and the knobby bones can be
eaten to some extent.

Additionally, a whole foot of good size while not food at all can be
a good source of fat and connective tissue as well as a reasonably
safe workout. Lots of connective tissue.

Oh, and some dogs do well on beef brisket bone, which is mostly fat
and bone but for some reason the bone appears fairly edible. Of
course, the problem with this option is finding beef brisket bone. I
know the SoCal buying group used to get them; I have no idea where or
how since I've not been able to find them through other sources.

The rest--pfft.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
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8a. Re: rawfeeding Deer meat
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:43 am ((PST))

Candee Brey <candee@...> wrote:
> > 1. What are the chances or is it possible for Dogs to contract
> > Lyme disease from eating infected deer?
> 2. What about CWS?
*****
If the deer has ticks, freezing will kill them. Dogs do not get Lyme
Disease from eating meat.

And dogs are not affected by CWD; though cats can be.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (22)
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8b. Re: rawfeeding Deer meat
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:13 am ((PST))

"1. What are the chances or is it possible for Dogs to contract Lyme disease
from eating infected deer?
2. What about CWS?"

I've fed venison for 2 yrs now almost 100% except when I run out in the
summer; sometimes it's not been frozen before and never had any problems.
We have 4 gsds, 2 F 2 M and no problems on a little ripe venison, unfrozen
venison, hair mixed in sometimes (I try to pull the hairy pieces out) but in
2 yrs not one ailment. And I feed almost the whole deer in portions except
the leg bones and I don't usually have any heads.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (22)
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9a. Re: Beef heart and other meats
Posted by: "Erika" Erika@redangelbordeaux.com redangelbordeaux
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:58 am ((PST))

Michael Moore <m-tak@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I do this frequently, with no problems. But, do I remember that you/your dogs are fairly new to rawfeeding? If not, I apologize. But if so, you may want to add in heart and lamb in small amounts to meals you know they do well on. Both those, IME, could cause very loose stools if given as entire meals to newbie dogs.

Thanks for the advice!

Yes my dogs are relativley new to RAW about 6 weeks in now, but I have already introduced pork, buffalo, chicken, turkey, beef, and lamb with only the occasional runny stool. Really I only had problems in the first 2-3 weeks. I have also given them beef liver, chicken and turkey hearts and gizzards with no problem.

Actually I had previously had a problem with the squirts with my gang for the previous year! I tried all kinds of "premium brand" dog foods, spent hundreds if not over a thousand dollars on testing and different antibiotics, probiotics etc. and nothing was helping. This is along with an allergy problem in 2 of my dogs is what prompted me to switch to RAW.

Now we sleep throught the night without having to let the dogs outside! So for me a little "loose stool" is nothing compared to what I WAS dealing with, lol! 6 mastiffs with the runs is deffinatley not fun. :(

I'll introduce this large percentage of heart gradually though and be sure to add it to chicken and make the first few meals a little extra boney to help with any loose poopies just to be sure.

Thanks again!
Erika

,_._,___

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Three pounds/day for 100 lb dog
Posted by: "Hanne" hanne@hajo.us halojo45
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:59 am ((PST))

3#/day may be way too much food.
My 140-pound Berner boy gets about 2#/day, which is less than 1.5% of his
total body weight - and he is a working dog. He pulls carts (giving
children rides, as well as in parades and competition), as well as a sled in
the Winter, does Obedience and Rally. And he is as solid as a rock. Since
he is 4yo now, I found that he needs less food compared to when he was 2yo.
My 85-pound Pyr girl also gets 2#/day, which is almost 2.5% of her body
weight. She is 3yo, more hyper and active, and works it off at a different
rate, while Blaze's metabolism is not as active.
The amount of food intake really depends on each inidividual animal. It's
easy to make adjustments - just look at your dog and adjust the amount
accordingly.
Hanne,
'Blaze', Silverlite's Fire on the Amazon, DD, CGC, TDIA, TT (Bernese
Mountain Dog)
and 'Zima', Urban's Platinum (Great Pyrenees rescue)

Messages in this topic (6)
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11a. Re: Duck Hearts
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:00 am ((PST))

I haven't fed duck hearts as a complete meal yet, but I use them to offset an otherwise boney piece of meat (duck leg/wing/back/neck/etc). I have used them as 75% of a meal before, but not straight off the bat. For a dog that rarely has digestive upset and is used to heart meals, feeding a whole meal of duck heart should be fine (if they're used to duck...).

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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12a. Re: Beef Heart? and other meats :)
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:00 am ((PST))

"Should I trim the fat or leave it on and serve it up as is?"

I leave mine as is unless you're cutting back on fat for overweight dogs.

"Is the artery portion a source or cartelidge that is good to feed to a dog
with displasia problems?"

I have no idea, but I always feed the whole heart, arteries and all.

"Is it ok to feed the beef heart as the "meaty" portion of most meals and
the turkey necks and lamb breast(bone in) as the RMB portion of the meal?"

Absolutely - heart is a muscle meat and counts as red meat. It's a very
good source of red meat.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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13a. Re: Salmon Oil/How much???
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:13 am ((PST))

"On the other end of the spectrum, I have two German Shepherds.."

Our 4 gsds are between 85-97lbs and get 4 - 1200mg fish oil caps drained
daily - in the winter they get 2; in the summer I tried getting away with 2,
but I noticed a big difference in their shedding when I put them back on 4.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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14. Poultry Backs
Posted by: "nkayl" doglover72@gmail.com nkayl
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:13 am ((PST))

Hello,

Yesterday I found a great deal on Turkey backs. All were half off.
Yay!! Anyway, my question is do these have enough meat on them for a
Pug? They looked fairly meaty to me, but I'm not sure. I don't want
to be starving my two Puggers. Thanks!

Natalie

Messages in this topic (1)
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15. Dog with persistent diarrhea
Posted by: "marlena_adema" marlena_adema@yahoo.ca marlena_adema
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:13 am ((PST))

I have searched the archives, but haven't found out what to do for a
dog with persistent diarrhea. My dog has been eating raw for 1.5 mos
now and has been doing very good with it. Sometimes she's had loose
stools, but removing the chicken skin and fat has always firmed them
up.

But now, it is explosive liquid and a yellowy-green color. Truth is,
I don't think it's the food. She was being looked after by some
friends while I was away, and apparently she had been drinking sea
water. Obviously, not giving her access to the beach is the first
step. But in the meantime, what do I do? Shall I fast her for 24
hours? Should I give her something herbal? Do I just continue to
give her skinless/fatless chicken?

Thanks kindly for any advice,
Marlena

Messages in this topic (1)
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16a. bare chicken bones (was Re: Feeding large bone?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:13 am ((PST))

Hi Sarah,

The re-freezing is ok, but you might want to reconsider feeding naked
chicken bones. If you know your dog is a careful eater, it might be
fine. But for a newbie, I'd be more cautious (I'm on the more cautious
side, anyway...). I fed my dog a whole rabbit once and there was a
little bit of boney stuff left and I fed that a couple days later and
he choked. He can tend to gulp (this was earlier on when he was worse
about that, too), but I learned a couple reasons why this wasn't the
safest choice. It was not a good size (not small enough to go down
easily, and not big enough for him to think he needed to take it
apart). I also fed it alone, just as a small snack--so he was more
hungry/not already satisfied by eating the rest of the rabbit (or some
more meat of some kind...).

I probably could be explaining this better...A whole chicken frame
would be safer (although too boney for regular feeding without extra
meat added) because the dog has to work at it and they're in charge of
how it gets dismantled and they have a better sense of what's going
down the hatch. They're also fuller by the time they get to any
smaller pieces and are less likely to gulp bad-sized pieces.

If I were you, I'd toss any iffy bones or save them til you have more
experience seeing how your dog eats and have a better idea of what will
work for him/her.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah" <hecarte@...> wrote:
> Also, is it ok to refreeze things for dogs? I was de-boning some
> chicken for our evening meal that had been frozen, but I re-froze the
> bones to give to the dog along with some meatymeat. I just wanted to
> check it was ok to do this.

Messages in this topic (3)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12326

There are 18 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Feeding whole chicken tomorrow, last question ! :)
From: shefy7
1b. Re: Feeding whole chicken tomorrow, last question ! :)
From: Laurie Swanson

2a. Cow Bones
From: windmilldairy
2b. Re: Cow Bones
From: DM H
2c. Re: Cow Bones
From: Sandee Lee
2d. Re: Cow Bones
From: Sandee Lee
2e. Re: Cow Bones
From: DM H
2f. Re: Cow Bones
From: Laurie Swanson
2g. Re: Cow Bones
From: jennifer_hell

3. Duck Hearts
From: Susanne MacLeod

4. to Rachelle in MS
From: Michelle R

5. Re: Beef heart and other meats
From: Michael Moore

6a. Re: 3 week old pups
From: Michael Moore

7. math help, please and thank you!
From: spricketysprock

8. Feeding large bone?
From: Sarah

9a. Re: Salmon Oil/How much???
From: ncrnrgrl

10a. Re: rawfeeding Deer meat
From: Candee Brey

11. Little update re: introducing new protein
From: mmc2315

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Feeding whole chicken tomorrow, last question ! :)
Posted by: "shefy7" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:16 pm ((PST))

hi everyone! i finally got up the nerve to try snowy with a whole
chicken. so i got an organic chicken from trader joes today. i know
people said chicken bones are really soft and edible. but it's just
those two little round bones sticking out (i think it's the bone of
the feet?) that are bugging me...they are really small (it's a 4 pound
chicken) like the size of dice...

just wanted to make sure this will be ok to feed snowy? (he's 20
pounds and can barely fit a tennis ball in his mouth..) i don't want
him getting any cracked teeth...

i'm not worried about him overeating...in fact he stops eating after
he's had his fill which is about 4-5oz in the am and pm... i'm just
worried about him biting down on this bone... i can't seem to find any
boneless whole chicken either (i'm guessing it would be too hard to
debone it and keep it whole :) )

thanks in advance!

shefy and snowy

Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: Feeding whole chicken tomorrow, last question ! :)
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:35 pm ((PST))

Hi Shefy,

Should be totally fine! Chicken bones are completely edible and won't
crack Snowy's teeth! My 23# Boston eats all poultry and rabbit bones,
plus many goat, lamb, and pork bones. I avoid beef, buffalo, and some
of the harder goat, lamb, or pork bones.

Laurie

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Cow Bones
Posted by: "windmilldairy" drwindmill@gmail.com windmilldairy
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:16 pm ((PST))

Besides the ribs, what cow/beef bones are safe for dogs?

Pat

Messages in this topic (10)
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2b. Re: Cow Bones
Posted by: "DM H" hawks.bluff@yahoo.com hawks.bluff
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:14 pm ((PST))

My dogs enjoy knuckle (soup) and marrow bones.
They'll spend hours trying to get every little scrap
off. :-)

Donna

Messages in this topic (10)
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2c. Re: Cow Bones
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:33 pm ((PST))

Most dogs do. Unfortunately these bones are the tooth wreckers, resulting
in breakage and wearing.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "DM H" <hawks.bluff@yahoo.com>

> My dogs enjoy knuckle (soup) and marrow bones.
> They'll spend hours trying to get every little scrap
> off. :-)

Messages in this topic (10)
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2d. Re: Cow Bones
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:38 pm ((PST))

None once the meat is removed...and that includes ribs for most dogs.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "windmilldairy" <drwindmill@gmail.com>

Besides the ribs, what cow/beef bones are safe for dogs?

Messages in this topic (10)
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2e. Re: Cow Bones
Posted by: "DM H" hawks.bluff@yahoo.com hawks.bluff
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:48 pm ((PST))

At eight years old, both my guys are doing fine,
dentally. :-) Just had their annuals, and the vet
was quite impressed by how clean their teeth are.
They've been eating knuckle bones and marrow bones
since they were a few months old.

Donna

Messages in this topic (10)
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2f. Re: Cow Bones
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:35 pm ((PST))

You're lucky--my dog has two chipped teeth from them. They're chipped
on the sides of the teeth (upper molars, I believe). His teeth have
always been nice and clean, but now the chipped ones get tartar build-
up and are discolored on the outside (now) rough surface. I hope this
doesn't cause him future problems and they don't have to be removed.

My vet recommended these bones and didn't even tell me to stop feeding
them after the chips! Um...they don't always know what they're talking
about... :-)

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, DM H <hawks.bluff@...> wrote:

Just had their annuals, and the vet
> was quite impressed by how clean their teeth are.
> They've been eating knuckle bones and marrow bones
> since they were a few months old.

Messages in this topic (10)
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2g. Re: Cow Bones
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:15 am ((PST))

Plain old luck. Just like some dogs grow very old on k*bble, some
people smoke their whole lives and don't get cancer etc etc.

Jennifer

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, DM H <hawks.bluff@...> wrote:
>
> At eight years old, both my guys are doing fine,
> dentally. :-) Just had their annuals, and the vet
> was quite impressed by how clean their teeth are.
> They've been eating knuckle bones and marrow bones
> since they were a few months old.
>
> Donna
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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3. Duck Hearts
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:13 pm ((PST))

I slurged and bought a ack of duck hearts.....should I feed like other
offal...or as a meal. I dont want exploding butts. :)
Suz Kate and joey

Messages in this topic (1)
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4. to Rachelle in MS
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:13 pm ((PST))

Hey Rachelle....just saw your post and you signed it "in MS" well I had to write and say howdy cuz Im in MS too...e-me offlist, I would have written to you directly, but couldnt find your original post with your email on it....I only saw a reply to you...:-(

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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Messages in this topic (1)
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5. Re: Beef heart and other meats
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:15 pm ((PST))

>>40# Turkey necks. I was so happy to find out that they were
individually wrapped! Do they always come this way?<<

Ericka -- Not around here -- they're all in one frozen hunk o' meat.

>>40# super score of lamb brest for only .99 a lb!<<

Ohhhh, very, very jealous of this score!! Good for you!

>>60# beef hearts all frozen together in a solid block :( now
defrosting in my bathtub, lol.<<

Been there, done that.

>>Anyway I was noticing that the beef heart has quite a bit a fat on
it and also has part of the artery attached. My main questiona are:

Should I trim the fat or leave it on and serve it up as is? <<

I vote serve as it -- that's how my hearts come (per my request). The fat is an essential part to feed, and the ateries are part of the whole animal.

>>Is the artery portion a source or cartelidge that is good to feed to
a dog with displasia problems?<<

Well, any species appropriate food is good for any/all dogs. Dysplastic dogs *may* need some supplements other than this. I had good results with adding higher doses of salmon oil, but that may have been coincidence.

>>Is it ok to feed the beef heart as the "meaty" portion of most meals
and the turkey necks and lamb breast(bone in) as the RMB portion of
the meal?<<

I do this frequently, with no problems. But, do I remember that you/your dogs are fairly new to rawfeeding? If not, I apologize. But if so, you may want to add in heart and lamb in small amounts to meals you know they do well on. Both those, IME, could cause very loose stools if given as entire meals to newbie dogs.

-- Anne and the PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: 3 week old pups
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:16 pm ((PST))

>>Geri, will you please tell me how to start my 3 week old SCWTerrier pups. I have in the past used oats, barley, rice with raw goat's milk. Now, tell me the RIGHT WAY to start these puppies. Mom has been eating raw all of her 5 years, with gusto! <<

Not Geri, but I can tell you how I weaned my Corgi pups onto raw. I started at four weeks of age, and I did not grind anything. I gave the pups bone-in breasts, with the meat ribboned so they'd have something to grab onto. Within a week they were stripping all the meat off the bones; within two weeks, they ate it bone and all.
I branched out within a couple of days to pork, beef heart, venison, elk, fish, eggs, turkey. They ate it all without problems. It was so cool to watch them simply attack their meals like good little carnivores.

-- Anne and the PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue

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7. math help, please and thank you!
Posted by: "spricketysprock" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:16 pm ((PST))

Just a silly little question but it would diminish my worry. My dog is
69 pounds and eats about a pound or a bit over a day. For organs I've
been getting liver and kidney, chopping it up, and freezing pieces in
ice cube trays. Could anyone tell me around how many cubes a week
would suffice for a dog his weight? He's a senior and I want to make
sure he's getting all his nutrients without going overboard (he gets
plenty of meat variety). Thanks!!

Jess & Toby

Messages in this topic (1)
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8. Feeding large bone?
Posted by: "Sarah" hecarte@hotmail.com sarah_uk_2000_2001
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:09 am ((PST))

I got some pork bones from the supermarket that weigh about 200g each
(they have a little meat attached). 200g would be enough bone for one
week for my dog so I was wondering, how can I feed these bones? Should
I give it to him for just a little while each day then take it away, or
should I just let him eat it all in one day then give him no more bone
for the rest of the week?

Also, is it ok to refreeze things for dogs? I was de-boning some
chicken for our evening meal that had been frozen, but I re-froze the
bones to give to the dog along with some meatymeat. I just wanted to
check it was ok to do this.

After 13 days of raw feeding his coat is so much softer than it was -
I'm really amazed by all the differences this diet is making to my
little angel :-)

Regards, Sarah (UK)

Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. Re: Salmon Oil/How much???
Posted by: "ncrnrgrl" jcraver1@nc.rr.com ncrnrgrl
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:09 am ((PST))

On the other end of the spectrum, I have two German Shepherds.. one is
90 lbs and the youngster is about 75 - they each get 1000mg wild salmon
oil/day. I understand you can give much more safely, but 1000 mg is the
dose that was recommended and they are doing great at this level.

Jen C.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cheryl Younesi <CYounesi@...> wrote:
>
> I give my 3 pounder, one drop of salmon oil 2 times a day. My 6
pounder
> gets a little larger drop 2 times a day. That's what was recommended;
> well 1-1 1/2 drops per 12.5 pounds of dog. It's Grizzly Salmon Oil.
> Cheryl
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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10a. Re: rawfeeding Deer meat
Posted by: "Candee Brey" candee@netnet.net candeeloubrey
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:30 am ((PST))

> I have been feeding raw for almost 7 years and I have never fed
> deer before and just wanted to know what you all think about these
> two things.

> 1. What are the chances or is it possible for Dogs to contract
> Lyme disease from eating infected deer?
2. What about CWS?

Thanks for the info...

Candee
Lexx 9 month puppy dobe
Mandee doberman adult
Wisconsin
>
>

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11. Little update re: introducing new protein
Posted by: "mmc2315" m.chelap@sbcglobal.net mmc2315
Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:15 am ((PST))

Our little 10# Cairn terrier mix started on a raw diet at the beginning of November. We
started with chicken---chicken quarters, then chicken breast (bone in and boneless).

We introduced him to a slice of pork loin two days ago. As usual, he was SO excited at
mealtime, but when he dived for the pork he took one sniff, a couple licks, and looked up
at us with the funniest expression. WTH?

Thanks to this list, I knew this was normal. :) I let him explore the meat, and figured I'd
give him 15-20 minutes to decide whether to eat it or not, then I would pick it up and not
feed him until the next day.

Eventually, he ate it. Slowly, "reluctantly", start-and-stop, nothing like diving into the
chicken.

The next day, he got pork again, and he ate it quickly and enthusiastically.

So far, no loose stools, and no vomiting.

When we were at the butcher's this week, I was excited to learn they have frozen whole
rabbits. We'll do that next. We still have not introduced organ meat yet. We're content to
take it slow.

Thanks again to everyone who takes the time to answer questions over and over. It's
really helpful!

Michelle

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