Feed Pets Raw Food: Sep 7, 2007

Friday, September 7, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12014

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: intro myself and question on off grid living and raw feeding
From: Bj

2a. Re: It has been a month on raw!
From: Maggie Smith
2b. Re: It has been a month on raw!
From: Howard Salob

3. Puppy throws up and soft stools
From: vickies_28

4a. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
From: carnesbill
4b. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
From: Yasuko herron
4c. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
From: steph.sorensen
4d. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
From: jmwise80
4e. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
From: Bailes2
4f. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
From: geraldinebutterfield
4g. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
From: steph.sorensen

5a. Re: Is catfish OK to give?
From: mz_boomer2

6a. Re: Update on Bernie, sick Sheltie
From: Linda Gower
6b. Re: Update on Bernie, sick Sheltie
From: Marion

7a. Re: Kitty With Intestinal Blockage?
From: MRS. GONZALEZ

8a. Re: COPROPHAGY
From: millser25

9a. Re: BIG argument with a "holistic" vet!
From: rokedemyah

10a. Re: New to this: how much to feed to start?
From: m.lesmana

11a. Re: How do you feed a sick dog?
From: liza2otis1

12. amalyse(sp?)-irritated pancreas
From: beckie716

13. update to:please help, my dog is constipated
From: beckie716

14a. collies and shedding
From: nwohiopma

15a. Re: Collie
From: nwohiopma

16. [Raw Feeding] Come to the dark side
From: Brandi Bryant

17. Feeding wild game
From: jenstalter

Messages
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1a. Re: intro myself and question on off grid living and raw feeding
Posted by: "Bj" seawindbullies@yahoo.com seawindbullies
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 4:58 pm ((PDT))

Hello Barb,

I have no experience in off-grid living although its something I have
been interested in for the last few years. Anyway, one thought that
came to me is are you near enough to a town where you could
possibly rent freezer space in some cold storage facility or some
business that has a large freezer area?

From what I've read, portable battery-powered refrigerators that run
off of DC and / or AC power( ie.e car battery through the cigarette
lighter outlet or into a solar power system) usually keep your foods
40-degrees cooler than outside temperatures. So depending on your
climate, it could work some part of the year but probably not year-around.

How about a kerosene fueled freezer? Oh, and I remember once seeing an
article with instructions for building an ice house in the Mother
Earth magazine, but don't remember much about it.

Anyway, most likely dumb thoughts but I tried :-)
Best of luck to you!
Bj

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: It has been a month on raw!
Posted by: "Maggie Smith" redkeds@comcast.net redkeds1
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 4:58 pm ((PDT))

I keep ground beef on hand for this very thing. One Dane won't eat
fish and I don't feed the other one fish very often. So I keep
about a pound at a time in the fridge and each night make little
meatballs and plop those supps right in.

Hope it helps :)

Maggie, Rufus and Oliver
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Erica Gordon <ericagordon@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, thanks for all of the awesome info provided here! Sophie
won't take the caps without the peanut butter. I even tried sliting
holes into her meat & inserting the capsules into the meat & she ate
the meat & left the salmon oil caps on the ground! So I guess
peanut butter it is, unless anyone else has any ideas?
>
> Erica
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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2b. Re: It has been a month on raw!
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 4:59 pm ((PDT))

Dear Erica,

I have tried all of the recommendations for getting a dog to take capsules and the best, really the best is wrapping it up in cream cheese.

Sincerely,

Howard

Erica Gordon <ericagordon@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Yes, thanks for all of the awesome info provided here! Sophie won't take the caps without the peanut butter. I even tried sliting holes into her meat & inserting the capsules into the meat & she ate the meat & left the salmon oil caps on the ground! So I guess peanut butter it is, unless anyone else has any ideas?

Erica

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (8)
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3. Puppy throws up and soft stools
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 4:59 pm ((PDT))

Hello everyone!
I've been feeding raw for 4 weeks. Husband is so much against it that
he doesn't talk to me anymore (as if I was feeding him raw :)). So far
all was pretty much going OK, but in the last 2 days, the dog threw up
bile - woke us up at 4 am 2 nights in a row. He didnm't seem to be
distirbed by it or anything. But my hubby says it's a direct
indication that he cannot digest raw food, plus he also has
continuosly soft stools, or mucusy even.
People here told me not to worry about mucusy stools, so I am not as
concerened but the throw up thing? It's OK once in a while but 2 days
in a row?!?!??! is soemthing wrong? What am I doing wrong?
I am afraid I might face a divorce in the near future :) if I doj't
clarify this issue. Hubby is also the one that says that I killed our
other dog (I wrote about this here), a puppy that died of cancer at 13
months

Thanks in advance
Vickie

Messages in this topic (1)
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4a. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 4:59 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "steph.sorensen"
<steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
>
> Would these fresh kills be okay
> for the dogs?

My dogs and cats all will catch a squirrel for a meal from time to
time. I don't give it a second thought. They also catch rabbits,
vouls, mice, rats and any other creature they happen upon. My dogs
don't actively hunt but will kill and eat anything that crosses
their path. The cats actively hunt every day.

To the person who lives in town and can't shoot rabbits, you can
always put out a rabbit box and catch them. :)

To the person worried about the toxisity of the bullet/shot, neither
is toxic to a dog. It will pass right through. I would worry about
broken teeth.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (14)
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4b. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 5:00 pm ((PDT))

>You and your dogs/pets can't live in a bubble for the rest of your life!

Hi,christine.I agree with that.

I live in gated community and have tonz of trees around. Our community is trying to reserve trees as much as possible to keep community more natural.

Thus,you see many squirrels crossing roads,and goose hanging around lake..

Almost impossible to get squirrels go away at least from our lot due to trees around our house.

Somebody on other list,told me her success story about deterring squirrels.She said that her husband scared squirrels with BB gun or something and possibly words traveled from one family of squirrels to the other and,their yard is squirrels-free now she says.

I am scared of breaking neighbor's windows,so,I would not do that,but point is,if I scare them,they may not hang around,I thought.

I am not sure if infecting rate is quiterare or not because to get infected,the squirrels have to be infected in thefirst place.So, my guess is low,and best thing for me could be distract her from sniffing poo with play balls and, try not to let her eat poo as much as possible(well,she loves findit game and she is pretty good finding stuff,so,she usually be thefirst one to find bug in the house if we have one like small spider,or one fly came in with us and could not find the way out and ended up getting paw punch from palette and dead) and not too worry???

I like watching her barking with anticipation for me to throw the ball and go get the balls with full run with sometimes with stamble a bit and sometimes she roll herself on lawn with delightful smile and,I find my self smiling as well,so, if the chances of getting lept is rare and low,and if it is easy to treat, I think I try ball still(but mostlikely fail because when I notice it,it is too late most of the time)but if she had diarrhea for longer time with no apparent reason or days under-weather and lethergic,I think I take her to vet and see waht it is.

Thank you for your opinions though,

yassy

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Messages in this topic (14)
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4c. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 5:00 pm ((PDT))

Chris, an air rifle just shoots these little caps made of a light
weight material (not lead, but not entirely sure what they are). I
doubt that it would be too difficult just to remove with a knife prior
to feeding.

My question was more in regards to squirrel meat as a good food for the
dogs (or the cat). Does anyone know what the approximate meat to bone
ratio would be in squirrels?

Just good stuff to know in case I decide to knock a couple off and
toss 'em in the freezer! :)

To the poster who suggested poison: wouldn't that kill them prior to
them coming to eat seed from my deck? I don't know of any squirrels
eating poison and then living to eat another meal again. Of course,
I've never personally tested that theory, so who's to say. It could be
possible that very small amounts could build up in their systems
without killing them, and they could eventually build a tolerance to
certain poisons. I'll have to look into that further, thanks for
bringing it up!

-Steph
Scarlet (mmmm...Mom gave us beef heart today!)
Lucy (I liked the venison shoulder we got today better)
Minkey (man, I'm sick of this ki**le crap!)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "momentumm5" <Momentumm5@...> wrote:
>
> Wouldn't it also be dependent on what you are shooting or killing
them
> with. I am not a hunter so I am not certain how hard it might be to
> remove buckshot/leadshot etc. from a dead squirrel. Some of it might
be
> toxic to the dog???
>
> Chris in Michigan.
>

Messages in this topic (14)
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4d. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
Posted by: "jmwise80" jmwise80@yahoo.com jmwise80
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 5:03 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Gomes" <gomes@...> wrote:
>
> Steph,
>
> New here, but I would caution this because, legal or not, I know
some
> people put out poison for squirrels, and other "pests".
>
> Steve
>

*******Squirrel season starts tomorrow and I HOPE that my dog will
eat them. Most of the places I and others I know hunt are well away
from any houses where they would be poisoned. I guess it is just
where you are taking them from.

"Wouldn't it also be dependent on what you are shooting or killing
them
with. I am not a hunter so I am not certain how hard it might be to
remove buckshot/leadshot etc. from a dead squirrel. Some of it might
be
toxic to the dog???

Chris in Michigan."

*******I found a "birdshot detector" that is just a mini metal
detector. Getting shot out is easy now that I have my detector to
find it. You can also use a non toxic shot. I'm going to use that
for everything from now on. I will still try to remove as much shot
as I can, though, cause I have hurt my teeth more than once on missed
shot. I would hate to hurt my dogs teeth.

Michael Wise

Messages in this topic (14)
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4e. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
Posted by: "Bailes2" gingerb@comporium.net ginnie4girls
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 5:50 pm ((PDT))

In the South squirrel is a long standing tradition. I remember my
grandfather taking us hunting for them and playing with the tails after
he skinned them. They taste good!

Ginger

Messages in this topic (14)
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4f. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
Posted by: "geraldinebutterfield" gbutterflied@comcast.net geraldinebutterfield
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:19 pm ((PDT))

I agree with Steve who warned about the poison people put out for
pesky animals, bugs…
There is no way for me to know who is putting out what, and we live
in a bit of a country setting so have lots of these critters. I
would not let my little girl eat a squirrel or mouse, unless I knew
for certain it was safe, which I will not say those around me are.
Although they would probably be a good meal. Just my 2 cents.

geraldine

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "steph.sorensen"
<steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
>
> I am just racking my brain to try to exercise all of my free meat
> options, and we keep shooting squirrels off of our back deck that
are
> feasting on our suet and bird seed. Would these fresh kills be
okay
> for the dogs?
>

Messages in this topic (14)
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4g. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:19 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:

> My dogs and cats all will catch a squirrel for a meal from time to
> time. I don't give it a second thought. They also catch rabbits,
> vouls, mice, rats and any other creature they happen upon. My dogs
> don't actively hunt but will kill and eat anything that crosses
> their path. The cats actively hunt every day.
>
> To the person who lives in town and can't shoot rabbits, you can
> always put out a rabbit box and catch them. :)
>
> To the person worried about the toxisity of the bullet/shot,
neither
> is toxic to a dog. It will pass right through. I would worry
about
> broken teeth.
>
***********************

That is what my line of thinking was. My cat hunts and occasionally
leaves gutted rodent presents on our doorstep. She is equipped with
a bell to ward off most things, but she's gotten really good at being
a sit-and-wait predator. I've watched her sit for nearly an hour,
watching a bird, or a mouse, amble its way over to her. The birds
usually get away, but the mice are rarely as lucky. :)

I think I may throw them the next squirrel I kill and see what they
do with it. This is fun!

-Steph
Scarlet (mmmmm...squirrel...been tryin' ta catch one of those for
months!)
Lucy
Minkey

Messages in this topic (14)
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5a. Re: Is catfish OK to give?
Posted by: "mz_boomer2" mz_boomer2@yahoo.com mz_boomer2
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 4:59 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> >I have been seeing some pretty good deals on catfish lately and I
was
>
> > just wondering if that was ok to give my 40 lb 2yo lab mixes?
>
> Hi. I have a story to tell you about catfish. I was told that if
you cut off barb that has,it is ok to feed,so,I bought it just half
pound to see how palette takes it.
>
>
> Shesniffed it very good,and licked it,and looked at me, and she
threw her body on to piece of fish!! She was rolling on pieceof
catfish with huuugesmile on her face with delight.
>
> I tried it with other meat as meal but all she did was same.
>
> She accept it with open arms to roll on it,but not open arms for
actually eating it.
>
> >
> yassy

****
Thanks Yassy, I enjoyed the laugh...reminded me of when Christine
tries to "perfume" herself in the same fashion with the goose
droppings at the park! lol

-Pam, Christine & Halo
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not
web links.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Re: Update on Bernie, sick Sheltie
Posted by: "Linda Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 4:59 pm ((PDT))

As long as his liver and pancreas values are high, he's not going to feel like eating. At least that was the case with my dog and
the others I've had experience with. I had luck with raw stew meat for a while. I think that is what actually pulled him thru. I got the point
I was having to force feed him A/D - I know, I know, but that was that at the time. I had to do something to get his protein levels up or he was going to die. But anyway, beef seemed to be the only thing he'd entertain when he'd be willing to be coaxed to eat something. When their pancreatic and bile ducts are inflammed like that, it hurts when the eat, so of course, they avoid it.

Just my experience............ You might try CanineLiver group too - they had quite a few raw feeders that helped me when Duncan was so sick.

Linda Gower

Bloodwork:
pancreas and some liver numbers were 2-3 x over normal indicating the
ducts are inflammed. Xray showed no blockage and no masses, but did
show well formed fecal. So vet thinks the infection in the intestines
is gone and now we have inflamation in the adjacent organs' ducts. So
finish off the last few remaining pills and add a new antibiotic that
will go through the liver. He mentioned sending me home with some
different food for now. As a next step if he doesn't get better after 3-
4 days, he would send Bernie off for an ultrasound, but that could
prove to be cost prohibitive. He says there's no reason Bernie isn't
eating except for a tummyache. His weight is down 1 pound.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (17)
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6b. Re: Update on Bernie, sick Sheltie
Posted by: "Marion" mbldesigns@yahoo.com mbldesigns
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:20 pm ((PDT))

Thank you. That's exactly what the vet sent me home with 4 cans of
A/D. Bernie is loving this stuff. He ate one whole can at dinner time
and then another just now 5 hours later. We'll get some beef tomorrow
at the store and try that. He does like liver, so I'm going to try
adding meat to the liver and see if I can get him to eat that way,
probably pulverize it so it's like what's in the can. This stuff is
chicken liver, pork liver, chicken, corn flour, fish oil and then all
the additives they have to add in.

Thank you,
Marion

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Linda Gower" <pudeltime@...> wrote:
>
> As long as his liver and pancreas values are high, he's not going to
feel like eating. At least that was the case with my dog and
> the others I've had experience with. I had luck with raw stew meat
for a while. I think that is what actually pulled him thru. I got the
point
> I was having to force feed him A/D - I know, I know, but that was
that at the time. I had to do something to get his protein levels up or
he was going to die. But anyway, beef seemed to be the only thing he'd
entertain when he'd be willing to be coaxed to eat something. When
their pancreatic and bile ducts are inflammed like that, it hurts when
the eat, so of course, they avoid it.
>
> Just my experience............ You might try CanineLiver group too -
they had quite a few raw feeders that helped me when Duncan was so sick.
>
> Linda Gower

Messages in this topic (17)
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7a. Re: Kitty With Intestinal Blockage?
Posted by: "MRS. GONZALEZ" helpshelteranimals@yahoo.com helpshelteranimals
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 5:01 pm ((PDT))

Samantha is fine, vet says she is in PERFECT condition, she knows I feed raw says she can't find one single thing wrong or out of place on her. She was just eating too much I guess! She's ok!!!! thanks everyone!

AG & Ruffian

helpshelteranimals <helpshelteranimals@yahoo.com> wrote:

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Messages in this topic (5)
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8a. Re: COPROPHAGY
Posted by: "millser25" millser25@yahoo.com millser25
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 5:01 pm ((PDT))

My dog ate poop before raw, and after being on raw for over a year, he
still eats poop. He eats his own poop, cat poop, and at day care he
eats his friend's poop. Raw doesn't seem to have changed that for him.
I wish it would have.
Erica

> >
> > Has anyone noticed if raw feeding effects changes in a dog with
> > coprophagy?
> >

Messages in this topic (5)
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9a. Re: BIG argument with a "holistic" vet!
Posted by: "rokedemyah" rokedemyah@yahoo.com rokedemyah
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 5:01 pm ((PDT))

My thoughts are :
1. their is no profit in it.
2. They became so educated by the sponsors (read that corporate
donors) of the Vet school they got tunnel vision with the degree?
Barb

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Ivette Casiano <ivettecasiano@...>
wrote:
>
> I found a holistic vet that encourages rawfeeding. She was wonderful
the one time we went. She doesn't even push vaccination. She said we
can sit down and discuss what we want and need. Why aren't there more
vets like that?

Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. Re: New to this: how much to feed to start?
Posted by: "m.lesmana" m.lesmana@yahoo.com m.lesmana
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 5:49 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jenny" <jguttormson@...> wrote:
>
> I am new to raw feeding and want to get my 7 yr old bassett hound
> started on it. He's 67 lbs, not overweight, and is active for a
> bassett hound. I read that a good baseline is to feed them 2-3% of body
> weight daily. That comes out to about 1.6lbs a day. To all of you
> experts out there, does this sound like a good place to start?
>

Just a bit of a warning, don't change the amount to drastically from
the food he had before. I just switched my dog to raw a couple of
weeks ago. She used to eat kibbles twice a day. I made a quick switch
and fed her once a day (in the evening). She loved it but her stomach
got a bit inflamed and she vomited yellow bile in the morning because
she had empty stomach.

After one day of fasting, I gave her food twice a day and over the
next few days make the morning one smaller and smaller until she eats
once a day now.

Good luck!

Mary

Messages in this topic (3)
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11a. Re: How do you feed a sick dog?
Posted by: "liza2otis1" jajeh4bts@charter.net liza2otis1
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 5:50 pm ((PDT))

If your dog is ill and has been so for a while, it would seem that
his stomach may need a rest. Make very sure he does not become
dehydrated, you might try some Pedialyte and if this is unpalatable
alone mix it in some chicken broth, preferable unsalted. Every time
your dog vomits or has diarrhea he looses valuable electrolytes which
will be more harmful to your dog than not eating for a day or two.
I'm sorry I missed the post about what was found to be the issue at
the vet. Any pertinent labs that came back???? If you dog has
elevated liver enzymes,pancreatic enzymes or evidence of renal
disease, nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, diarrhea can be due to
that and the only fix is to deal with the disease/illness. I won't
even attempt to advise you about how to deal with that. Probably a
discussion with your vet is your best bet there.
I wish your dogs well and hope they are on the mend pronto.

Hugs,
Liza

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Marion" <mbldesigns@...> wrote:
>
> OK, thank you. So just wait on them to start eating again? Even if
> it takes 2-3 days??? Bernie is so old it scares me to not see him
> eating and he's weak and can't jump the 8inches on the back porch
> like he was doing on the rawfeed after not being able to for the
past
> 2 years.
>
> The vet said Bernie is definitely not a well dog by no means, but
> there just is no need to put him through tons of tests and I agree.
> This med has worked in the past, possible giardia or bacterial
> infection, but I've soaked his kibble in water before to get him to
> eat, but we're never doing kibble again so I didn't know what to
feed
> him that he would want to eat
>
> Where do I find slippery elm bark?
>
> Thanks so much,
> Marion
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@> wrote:
> >
> > Part of the problem may be that you have tried everything...raw,
> cooked,
> > pureed, rice, oatmeal, pumpkin, etc.
> >
> > If you are certain there are no serious medical issues, I'd fast
> them, maybe
> > use some slippery elm bark to sooth their intestines and start
all
> over with
> > some nice easy to digest chicken breasts...raw of course...until
> they are
> > eating and digesting well.
> >
> > Sandee & the Dane Gang
>

Messages in this topic (17)
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12. amalyse(sp?)-irritated pancreas
Posted by: "beckie716" beckie716@yahoo.com beckie716
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:12 pm ((PDT))

I just got back from the vet. He ran a blood panel on her. he says
normal pancreas levels are up to 1010. and hers is 1012.
Diagnosis-feed only "dog food". Should I be concerned?

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13. update to:please help, my dog is constipated
Posted by: "beckie716" beckie716@yahoo.com beckie716
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:13 pm ((PDT))

Sorry I didn't answer any replies. I got scared and called the vet.

I lied and to them that she "accidentally" ate some bone (he is
pushing me to feed science diet. It's way better that even IAMAS, he
says). So I learned how to give an enema to my dog. however, I didn't
see her move her bowels, and she stopped eating. I took her to the vet
and he took x-rays. There is NO obstruction. No more constipation.
Good news. At least I know that she can digest bone properly.

Thank You,
Beckie :)

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14a. collies and shedding
Posted by: "nwohiopma" nwohiopma@yahoo.com nwohiopma
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:16 pm ((PDT))

Hi Howard,

Unfortunately not, at least with my pack. I brush them twice/week and
use a wide-tooth metal comb after brushing. They get a bath about
every 3 months. It doesn't matter, there's dog hair everywhere and I
vacuum every day.

I believe this is off topic for this list, if you have any other
question, feel free to contact me via my email.

Candace and the 4 Collies

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Howard Salob <itiskismet1968@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Dear Candace,
>
> Does raw fed diet help with extra shedding of collies?
>
> Sincerely,,
>
> Howard
>

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

15a. Re: Collie
Posted by: "nwohiopma" nwohiopma@yahoo.com nwohiopma
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:17 pm ((PDT))

Hi Norman,

I have 4 Collies, and I've seen no difference in shedding since
switching to raw. I use salmon oil as a supplement, but I don't see
any less shedding.

My oldest dog is a Scotch Collie. I'd love to trade pictures. You
can send one to my email if you like.

Candace and the 4 Collies

> Recently since switching there has been a drastic increase in
shedding. WE have read other
> posts for shedding problems. Is there any specific raw food that is
good for shedding
> problems, or supplement relevant to Collie shedding?
>
> Thanks, Norman
> sovereign1@...
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

16. [Raw Feeding] Come to the dark side
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:19 pm ((PDT))

You know you've crossed over to the dark side (raw) when you see a
dead deer carcass on the side of the road with buzzards pecking at it
and think "Man wish I had a butchers knife"

LOL -

You can't really do that can you? Pick up a dead animal off the road
take it home clean it off and feed it to your dogs could you...I mean
if you saw the deer get hit and knew that it was dead, possible???

Just curious?

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

17. Feeding wild game
Posted by: "jenstalter" jstalter2ksndj@aol.com jenstalter
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:20 pm ((PDT))

Hey everyone.
I have the opportunity to receive wild game from a co-worker who traps
during the season. (beaver, mink, fisher, etc...)
My hesitation comes from the fear of rabies, and distemper.
Has anyone fed wild game and/or is the risk just to high.

Jennifer, Rohan, Bella, Jack, Emmi, Moco, & Archimedes

Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12013

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Chicken wings vs other parts??
From: Trish Chapman
1b. Re: Chicken wings vs other parts??
From: Andrea
1c. Re: Chicken wings vs other parts??
From: Steve Gomes
1d. Re: Chicken wings vs other parts??
From: wandaful

2a. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
From: Steve Gomes
2b. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
From: momentumm5
2c. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
From: Yasuko herron
2d. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
From: Christine

3a. Introducing myself and Zachary
From: Mia-Shay Emery
3b. Re: Introducing myself and Zachary
From: Andrea

4a. Re: Thank you!
From: delcaste

5a. Update on Bernie, sick Sheltie
From: Marion
5b. Re: Update on Bernie, sick Sheltie
From: Giselle
5c. Re: Update on Bernie, sick Sheltie
From: Sandee Lee

6a. Re: Old subject, new dog
From: mob1043

7a. Re: New to this: how much to feed to start?
From: cmhausrath

8a. Re: Rabbit.... is it just me??
From: Sunshine S. Patron

9. Collie
From: Norman

10. Re: coprophagy
From: Michael Moore

11a. Re: COPROPHAGY
From: nwohiopma
11b. Re: collies and shedding
From: Howard Salob

12a. Re: chicken feet--gulping & glucosamine
From: Yasuko herron

13a. Re: It has been a month on raw!
From: Erica Gordon
13b. Re: It has been a month on raw!
From: Casey Post

14. intro myself and question on off grid living and raw feeding
From: rokedemyah

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Chicken wings vs other parts??
Posted by: "Trish Chapman" twotheark@verizon.net twotheark
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:42 am ((PDT))

Steve,
No, wings are too bony.

Trish

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Gomes" <gomes@alamedanet.net>

> Would the higher bone to meat ratio offered by wings make it a better
> whole food than other chicken parts?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Steve

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Chicken wings vs other parts??
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:42 am ((PDT))

No, the other way around. You want mostly meat and only a little
bone. Besides the fact that wings are so small that most dogs can try
to swallow them whole and choke on them. Whole chickens are far
superior.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Gomes" <gomes@...> wrote:
>
> Would the higher bone to meat ratio offered by wings make it a better
> whole food than other chicken parts?

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Chicken wings vs other parts??
Posted by: "Steve Gomes" gomes@alamedanet.net stvgomes
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 11:27 am ((PDT))

Thanks all. A holdover from BARF several years ago, which recommended
wings, it is clear I have to update my learning. I will start out with
quarters.

Thanks again.

Steve

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: Chicken wings vs other parts??
Posted by: "wandaful" rondarosa@ftcnet.net rondaros
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 11:28 am ((PDT))

Seems I am always confused. I am beginning to have a few doubts now....the breeder sent me home with ground food and chicken necks, saying this was the way to feed the tiny puppy. Guess I need to ask specifically.....what should I be feeding a 15 week old 2.5 pound toy poodle puppy?
wanda

Messages in this topic (6)
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________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
Posted by: "Steve Gomes" gomes@alamedanet.net stvgomes
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 11:26 am ((PDT))

Steph,

New here, but I would caution this because, legal or not, I know some
people put out poison for squirrels, and other "pests".

Steve

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
Posted by: "momentumm5" Momentumm5@aol.com momentumm5
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 11:28 am ((PDT))

Wouldn't it also be dependent on what you are shooting or killing them
with. I am not a hunter so I am not certain how hard it might be to
remove buckshot/leadshot etc. from a dead squirrel. Some of it might be
toxic to the dog???

Chris in Michigan.

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 12:43 pm ((PDT))

>sometimes theDalmatian corners one in the garage and the Corgi finishes it off, and
>no harm done so far, LOL!

Hi. It may not be a good idea though. I am already thinking that backyard may not be good place to let my dog be dog due squirrels.

My dog sniff out squirrels poo and ate it the other day,and was wondering if squirrels poo is any bad to dogs health.

I searched searched last days,no luck finding info but today,it got me alerted.

Wild squirrels can be carrier of leptrospirosis....

http://www.mayfairvet.com/lepto.htm

http://www.247wildlife.com/wildlifediseases.htm

To infect our dogs,the squirrels have to be infected in the first place I am thinking,so,chances to get infected be maybe low,but this reading freaked me out.

Some dogs never show any symptons,some sites wrote and get liver or kidney prob later.

I am thinking,I usually play ball with my dog ball but,better to change early morning walk and usual evening walk.....

yassy

---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
Posted by: "Christine" chrizk20@yahoo.com chrizk20
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 1:44 pm ((PDT))

But diseases are everywhere! And much more worse ones then that one!
You and your dogs/pets can't live in a bubble for the rest of your
life!
I guess I look at this way, If you/your pets have a healthy immune
system and a properly trained classical homeopath, with no
vaccines/no pesticides/no toxins, and are raw feed, it will greater
your chances of warding off diseases because your body is not
compromised and can fight diseases on its own.

Don't get me wrong, if i see my dogs eating something - like rabbit
poop or something, i do try to discourage it, but thats only because
its gross to me...

just my two sense!
christine k.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
>
> >sometimes theDalmatian corners one in the garage and the Corgi
finishes it off, and
> >no harm done so far, LOL!
>
> Hi. It may not be a good idea though. I am already thinking that
backyard may not be good place to let my dog be dog due squirrels.
>
> My dog sniff out squirrels poo and ate it the other day,and was
wondering if squirrels poo is any bad to dogs health.
>
> I searched searched last days,no luck finding info but today,it
got me alerted.
>
> Wild squirrels can be carrier of leptrospirosis....
>
>

http://www.mayfairvet.com/lepto.htm
>
>

http://www.247wildlife.com/wildlifediseases.htm
>
> To infect our dogs,the squirrels have to be infected in the first
place I am thinking,so,chances to get infected be maybe low,but this
reading freaked me out.
>
> Some dogs never show any symptons,some sites wrote and get liver
or kidney prob later.
>
> I am thinking,I usually play ball with my dog ball but,better to
change early morning walk and usual evening walk.....
>
> yassy
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone
who knows.
> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Introducing myself and Zachary
Posted by: "Mia-Shay Emery" briarbaby_04@yahoo.com briarbaby_04
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 11:26 am ((PDT))

Hi all,
My name is Mia Emery, I am proud to have an afghan hound named Zachary as a family member, he is my pride and joy.

Yesterday I found out what was in the kibble I have been feeding him. Needless to say I was horrified, nauseated and in tears, I spent the entire day apologizing to my dog. He will NEVER eat kibble again, so here I am asking for help and advice.

How do I safely switch Zach to a raw feed diet? What foods are acceptable for a raw feed diet?

He had sliced raw organic chicken and two big meaty bones last night, and this morning my husband confessed to giving him some cooked rice, potatoes and carrots. I put my foot down and said no more of that until I've learned the correct food to give him. Is a raw feed diet strictly a meat diet?

I thank you all in advance for any assistance you give me, I have a million questions but these will do for now,

Have a Great Day!
Mia Emery

____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Introducing myself and Zachary
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 12:42 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Mia, you've come to the right place if you have lots and lots of
questions. You're starting out with some pretty easy ones too.

> How do I safely switch Zach to a raw feed diet? What foods are
acceptable for a raw feed diet?

It really is best to go cold turkey with a raw diet. Ki**le and
cooked food digest at different rates than raw food so something
doesn't get digested right if they get fed together. Just buy a
bunch of whole chickens, whack them up into quarters, and feed to
dog. It will take a week or two for both of you to get used to the
new diet, so if you stick with chicken a la chicken it should be a
less bumpy road.

> Is a raw feed diet strictly a meat diet?

A good raw diet is mostly meat, but you also need to include a little
edible bone and a little organ (about 80%, 10%, 10%). You want to
approximate what your pup would eat if he were a wolf in the wild.
The more whole the food is, the better off you are.

See, now that wasn't so bad, was it? Chicken for a week or two and
keep reading here. By the time you get to the end of the chicken week
(s), you'll be ready. Good luck.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Thank you!
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 11:27 am ((PDT))

***You could use an ex-pen (or a big cardboard box with the top and
bottom flaps folded up) to surround your dog and his eating rug, until
he learns to stay in his place while he's eating***

Giselle that is a great idea. My babies don't seem to quite get the rug
idea yet ;)

Silvina

Messages in this topic (14)
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________________________________________________________________________

5a. Update on Bernie, sick Sheltie
Posted by: "Marion" mbldesigns@yahoo.com mbldesigns
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 11:27 am ((PDT))

Called the vet this morning, he wanted to see Bernie for bloodwork and
Xray. So off to drop him off. Just got the results. Bloodwork:
pancreas and some liver numbers were 2-3 x over normal indicating the
ducts are inflammed. Xray showed no blockage and no masses, but did
show well formed fecal. So vet thinks the infection in the intestines
is gone and now we have inflamation in the adjacent organs' ducts. So
finish off the last few remaining pills and add a new antibiotic that
will go through the liver. He mentioned sending me home with some
different food for now. As a next step if he doesn't get better after 3-
4 days, he would send Bernie off for an ultrasound, but that could
prove to be cost prohibitive. He says there's no reason Bernie isn't
eating except for a tummyache. His weight is down 1 pound.

So with this new information, what would you recommend I feed him?

Thanks bunches,
Marion

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: Update on Bernie, sick Sheltie
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 2:58 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Marion!
Boneless chicken breast with the fat and skin trimmed off
would be good.
Chicken broth, to keep him well hydrated, would be good, too.
Slippery Elm Bark Powder should soothe his digestive system enough for
him to start feeling like eating;
http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm

You can also find it in a health food store.
You could sprinkle it on the chicken, or stir it into the broth. Or
mix 1 tsp to 1 ounce of ground or chopped chicken meat. You can make a
pound of it, mix it up and make 1 ounce (or 1/2 ounce) meatballs out
of the mix. You can freeze some, as they thaw quickly. I'd feed him
3-5 a day, between meals and before a meal, too. His stools probably
will come out mucousy, but thats the effect of the SEBP, it coats the
intestines and reduces inflammation.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Called the vet this morning, he wanted to see Bernie for blood work and
> X-ray. So off to drop him off. Just got the results. Blood work:
> pancreas and some liver numbers were 2-3 x over normal indicating the
> ducts are inflamed. Xray showed no blockage and no masses, but did
> show well formed fecal. So vet thinks the infection in the intestines
> is gone and now we have inflammation in the adjacent organs' ducts. So
> finish off the last few remaining pills and add a new antibiotic that
> will go through the liver. He mentioned sending me home with some
> different food for now. As a next step if he doesn't get better after 3-
> 4 days, he would send Bernie off for an ultrasound, but that could
> prove to be cost prohibitive. He says there's no reason Bernie isn't
> eating except for a tummy ache. His weight is down 1 pound.
>
> So with this new information, what would you recommend I feed him?
>
> Thanks bunches,
> Marion
>

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

5c. Re: Update on Bernie, sick Sheltie
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 4:19 pm ((PDT))

I guess I would feed small frequent easy to digest meals (such as chicken
breast), no bone, remove fat...you can warm it up if need be to entice him.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Marion" <mbldesigns@yahoo.com>

Messages in this topic (14)
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________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Old subject, new dog
Posted by: "mob1043" ynotbeastar@marykay.com mob1043
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 11:29 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> During the transition to raw a little bright red blood in the stool
> isn't uncommon. It just means that the lower bowel was irritated.
Are
> you feeding whole chickens or just a specific part? You might have
too
> much bone or too much food. Depending on how small the bit of
liver
> was, it might have caused the loose stools as well. It isn't that
> puppies are too young for organ meats, you just have to introduce
it
> slowly for some dogs.
>
> Andrea
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mob1043" <ynotbeastar@> wrote:
>
> > Tonight we noticed the two little ones have had diarrhea and the
> > silky has some blood mixed in. She seems energetic and
normal...I
> > have been feeding strictly chicken w/ bone according to weight
> > recommendations.
> > Why do you think the bloody stool? Could this have anything to
do
> > with eating small bit of chicken liver and are pups to young for
> > organ meats?
>
Hi Andrea:

Thank you for your response.

I think maybe they are getting a bit to much bone because although I
am trying to balance it out, it seems like they are getting 50/50
meat/bone. I am used to feeding big mastiff dogs so I am learning
all over again with the teeny dogs.

I have been feeding strictly chicken at this point, cornish game hens
actually due to the softness of the bone.

Michele

Messages in this topic (3)
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________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: New to this: how much to feed to start?
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 12:34 pm ((PDT))

"Jenny" <jguttormson@...> wrote:

> I am new to raw feeding and want to get my 7 yr old bassett hound
> started on it. He's 67 lbs, not overweight, and is active for a
> bassett hound. I read that a good baseline is to feed them 2-3% of
body
> weight daily. That comes out to about 1.6lbs a day.

While this sounds about right -- and might be where you end up -- it
seems a smidge high. Since one of the common problems new raw
feeders have is overexuberance (and resulting digestive distress),
you may be better off starting smaller. If it were me, I'd probably
start around 1.25 pounds, and add some food after a week or so if the
dog started looking too slim.

That said, bear in mind that every dog is an individual. My hound
mix is between 60 and 65 pounds, and he currently eats about 1.5
pounds a day -- but he's been as high as a couple pounds a day, when
he's very active, or as low as 1.25 pounds a day, when we're both
being lazy slugs (generally the dead of winter). The great thing is
that as you get used to feeding raw, you'll stop paying much
attention to exact weights -- you'll know about how much is right,
and you'll vary the meal sizes based on how the dog looks. I know
that I need to buy a little more than 10# a week to keep my dog fed,
but beyond that I pay no attention to what individual meals weigh.

Any more questions as you start, or are you ready to go??

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: Rabbit.... is it just me??
Posted by: "Sunshine S. Patron" sbr_minirex@yahoo.com sbr_minirex
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 12:43 pm ((PDT))

Hi Terri,
If these are only 2 pound rabbits, then yes, that is too much to
pay... but it would be a good price for say, a 6-9 pound rabbit, IMO.

A single rabbit raised to 14 weeks of age, costs me just over $1 per
pound of body weight to produce, therefore euthanized whole rabbits I
sell for no less than $1.50 per pound, so you really should not be
paying any more than $3.00 for a 2 pound rabbit. I also offer
dressed rabbits, so the price goes up from there according to how much
work is involved.

Hope this helps,
Sunshine S. Patron

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Terri Leist <qahri@...> wrote:
>
> I was offered some rabbits for $6.00 each. I weighed some already
skinned that another person gave me & they weighed about 2lbs. Is
that too much for rabbit?

Messages in this topic (10)
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________________________________________________________________________

9. Collie
Posted by: "Norman" sovereign1@i-is.com signmakernorman
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 12:45 pm ((PDT))

Bonnie is a full size Scotch Collie.

We are new to feeding raw, about 2 months now, and am wondering if anyone has Collie
Sepcific information on raw feeding. Bonnie seems to shy away from Turkey, loves Chicken.

Recently since switching there has been a drastic increase in shedding. WE have read other
posts for shedding problems. Is there any specific raw food that is good for shedding
problems, or supplement relevant to Collie shedding?

Thanks, Norman
sovereign1@i-is.com

Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________

10. Re: coprophagy
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 12:45 pm ((PDT))

>>Has anyone noticed if raw feeding effects changes in a dog with
coprophagy?<<

Steve -- in my experience, no. Dogs who were poop-eaters on ki**le remained poop eaters on raw foods. And, dogs without that habit did not develop it when switched to raw. My puppies, from a rawfed dam, and weaned to raw, have not developed the habit, but whether it's related to their diet is unknown.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Re: COPROPHAGY
Posted by: "nwohiopma" nwohiopma@yahoo.com nwohiopma
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 1:06 pm ((PDT))

Hi Steve,

YES! My Danny ate poop when he and the other dogs were on kibble. He
stopped completely and for good after his first raw meal. It's the
reason I switched to raw. They've been on raw since Nov. 1st, 2006
and he hasn't eaten poop since then.

Candace and the 4 Collies

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Gomes" <gomes@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone noticed if raw feeding effects changes in a dog with
> coprophagy?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Steve
>

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

11b. Re: collies and shedding
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 1:39 pm ((PDT))

Dear Candace,

Does raw fed diet help with extra shedding of collies?

Sincerely,,

Howard

Candace and the 4 Collies

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Gomes" <gomes@...> wrote:
>
>>

---------------------------------
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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12a. Re: chicken feet--gulping & glucosamine
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 1:39 pm ((PDT))

>Crab and lobster shells are a convenient source

Hi,Chris. so,you saying that we can feed raw crab (the one you can deepfry to make soft crab sandwhich),raw Robster with shell on?

I have fed crab but it was canned crab because I was not sure if I can feed soft shell crab raw.

If i get to see them with cheaper price,I can feed it as is or need to pinch off sharp scissors before feeding?

Thank you

yassy

---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
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13a. Re: It has been a month on raw!
Posted by: "Erica Gordon" ericagordon@sbcglobal.net ericagsweet
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 1:39 pm ((PDT))

Yes, thanks for all of the awesome info provided here! Sophie won't take the caps without the peanut butter. I even tried sliting holes into her meat & inserting the capsules into the meat & she ate the meat & left the salmon oil caps on the ground! So I guess peanut butter it is, unless anyone else has any ideas?

Erica

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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13b. Re: It has been a month on raw!
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 2:59 pm ((PDT))

> Yes, thanks for all of the awesome info provided here! Sophie won't take
> the caps without the peanut butter. I even tried sliting holes into her
> meat & inserting the capsules into the meat & she ate the meat & left the
> salmon oil caps on the ground! So I guess peanut butter it is, unless
> anyone else has any ideas?

Sorry, I missed the original question, but it sounds like you're trying to
get fish oil caps into a reluctant dog? If so, I've found that chicken
hearts are GREAT for hiding things - just slip it into the heart and off you
go! Another valuable tip that I learned from this list!

Casey

Messages in this topic (6)
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________________________________________________________________________

14. intro myself and question on off grid living and raw feeding
Posted by: "rokedemyah" rokedemyah@yahoo.com rokedemyah
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 1:40 pm ((PDT))

Hi, I just joined the groups and am learning about raw feeding. still
on kibble but this is the next logical step to our adventure of going
natural / organic so here I am. Plan on getting the books just have to
wait until payday.
We have four dogs; Baby Girl/ AKA Red, small poodle cross with what
we think might be wire terrier. She is THE Queen bee, she has been
here the longest and is 10 YO this next spring. she has the boys who
are way larger then her so whipped!

Puppy, (2 YO) hes a Dalmation pit cross and the sweetest thing you
ever seen as long as no one messes with him when we put the food out.
We rescued him when my son came in telling me about a short haired pup
no bigger then your hand chained up out side at the neighbors on a 10
degree winter day. He knew i was not going to say no but came in and
asked, then went over as offered to adopt, they did not blink an eye
and said yes. Some folks should not be allowed to have pets.

The comes Brownie from the pics online I really think he is a full
blood Italian mastiff. he was dropped off in the coldest part of a
north Idaho winter when we were visiting up there and adopted us. We
are not sure how old he is but he's a big lovable brick that weights a
ton if he decides he wants to sit on your lap like Baby girl and who
is loved like all the rest. (I Know I should train him better but he
really does think he is a lap dog. He does not understand WHY he can't
sit on our laps like Baby Girl. ) we have been working on getting his
eyes clear with herbs and hes doing great.

The last but not least is Foxy. (7 months old) He is supposed to be a
border collie malamute cross but I have my doubts. He has the color of
the border collie and the malamute eyes but he really looks like a
coyote pup in the face structure, thats ok we love him and he follows
my son and me like a lost child, lovable as the rest and has what I
suspect is the herd/ guard instinct from the fact he ALWAYS finds the
highest spot to sit when we are outside. My gut is he is going to be a
good LGD, so he stays.

I'm planning on adding to that number since cats & LGD's and
homesteading just go hand in hand in my book.

Long term goal is we are finally getting ready to move completely off
grid. It's completely raw land so if I want to start the raw feeding
asap I need to brainstorm some ideas until I get domesticated critters
set up for a food supply. Rabbits, ducks, chickens, goat sheep are all
part of it eventually. I'm getting electric set up little by little
but a freezer is not going to be an option for quite a while if ever.
Once we get the livestock set up and some inventory going this
becomes a moot point as I can slaughter as needed. Its 7 miles down a
less then dependable mountain road to town and trips just for food are
not something i want to have to do if avoidable.

My questions are these. Does any one have any practical experience
using dry ice and ice chest for long term (preferably a month at a
time or at least 2 weeks) food storage? As in how much dry ice do I
need. I have long ago read the burning man sites and building freezer
boxes that don't get opened until they are needed are a given once we
get ready to do this all the way. Has any one actually successfully
used one of those DC freezers that plug into your car lighter plug?
what was the pit falls? How often did you have to charge your car
battery to maintain it?

The UP side is we don't have to pack it in. We have a glorified goat
path that will allow my pick up. Hunting is an option although
skills in that area are sketchy. (if anyone wants a free hunt trip in
east Oklahoma on the condition you teach me and my son, email me
privately. BOW hunters preferred since that is what we have the most
of. Fishing MIGHT be an option but I don't know for sure if we have
fish in the pond yet.)
Storage is a major issue since we do have bear and mountain lion in
the area. I've got ideas on a
bear and lion "proof" set up although I have not as yet tested it
obviously.
Any and ALL ideas no matter how silly or outright goofy they might
sound are sure welcome.
Thanks

Barb

Messages in this topic (1)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12012

There are 26 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Is catfish OK to give?
From: Andrea
1b. Re: Is catfish OK to give?
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: Is catfish OK to give?
From: Yasuko herron

2a. Re: Kitty With Intestinal Blockage?
From: Bailes2
2b. Re: Kitty With Intestinal Blockage?
From: helpshelteranimals

3a. Re: Old subject, new dog
From: Andrea

4a. Re: Rabbit.... is it just me??
From: Andrea
4b. Re: Rabbit.... is it just me??
From: wandaful
4c. Re: Rabbit.... is it just me??
From: costrowski75
4d. Re: Rabbit.... is it just me??
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: How do you feed a sick dog?
From: Marion

6a. Re: Louie is getting better....I think
From: mandajenwalker
6b. Re: Louie is getting better....I think
From: ginny wilken

7a. Rookie Questions
From: krystal_brr
7b. Re: Rookie Questions
From: costrowski75

8. 5 months in checkup/organs
From: flyinheller

9a. Re: My first raw shopping trip.....
From: saucy_senorita2003

10a. Re: It won't hurt them if
From: Tina Berry

11a. Re: Salmonella
From: Tina Berry

12a. Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
From: steph.sorensen
12b. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
From: S.R. Sudekum
12c. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
From: k9dine

13. COPROPHAGY
From: Steve Gomes

14a. Chicken wings vs other parts??
From: Steve Gomes
14b. Re: Chicken wings vs other parts??
From: costrowski75

15. New to this: how much to feed to start?
From: Jenny

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Is catfish OK to give?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 6:32 am ((PDT))

Catfish is fine if your dogs will eat it. I tried it with Geiger and
my cats and it was a very big no go. While catfish doesn't have much
in the way of O3's, it is still a good source for protein variety.
Even if you were feeding wild catfish (I suspect most catfish is farm
raised), you won't be feeding it all the time so I wouldn't worry too
much about toxins it might have.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mz_boomer2" <mz_boomer2@...> wrote:
>
> I have been seeing some pretty good deals on catfish lately and I
> was just wondering if that was ok to give my 40 lb 2yo lab mixes? I
> have heard that since catfish are "bottom feeders" ...they ingest
> alot of the crud of pollutants and excrement that settles on the
> bottom floor of the water.

Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: Is catfish OK to give?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 9:40 am ((PDT))

"mz_boomer2" <mz_boomer2@...> wrote:
>
> I have been seeing some pretty good deals on catfish lately and I was
> just wondering if that was ok to give my 40 lb 2yo lab mixes? I have
> heard that since catfish are "bottom feeders" ...they ingest alot of
> the crud of pollutants and excrement that settles on the bottom floor
> of the water.
*****
Wild catfish in a wild environment will offer higher quality, more
species appropriate nutrition than farmed catfish (just as the wild
version of any prey offers higher quality, more species appropriate
nutrition). Unless the catfish is labeled otherwise (and I am quite
sure it won't be) what you see is farmed catfish that was raised on
catfish chow. The fish will not have been bottom feeding on the
material you describe.

It will be "safe" to feed as long as you take into consideration the
processed food it ate and the meds it was given and whatever toxins
polluted the ponds it lived in, and it is considered a source of easily
digested protein. I consider it in the same catagory as farmed salmon:
no worse than feedlot livestock and factory poultry and no better.

I don't feed catfish. I do feed farmed salmon and other products of
industrialized farming. The extent to which I can avoid these foods I
do but when I can't I just keep on keepin' on.

Find out all you can about what you need to find out about in order to
make an informed decision.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: Is catfish OK to give?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:38 am ((PDT))

>I have been seeing some pretty good deals on catfish lately and I was

> just wondering if that was ok to give my 40 lb 2yo lab mixes?

Hi. I have a story to tell you about catfish. I was told that if you cut off barb that has,it is ok to feed,so,I bought it just half pound to see how palette takes it.

I usually give sample when I do bagging,and I sliced a bit from cat fish (since it will be introduction phase,I was going to feed small amount of it along with something she already being good on),and tried giving her.

Shesniffed it very good,and licked it,and looked at me, and she threw her body on to piece of fish!! She was rolling on pieceof catfish with huuugesmile on her face with delight.

I tried it with other meat as meal but all she did was same.

She accept it with open arms to roll on it,but not open arms for actually eating it.

so,catfish is out from her fish list.

This is just Palette but,you may want to consider buying small and see how your dogs do.

yassy

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: Kitty With Intestinal Blockage?
Posted by: "Bailes2" gingerb@comporium.net ginnie4girls
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 6:34 am ((PDT))

Has she been wormed? I think I'd see how she felt this morning about
eating.

Ginger

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Kitty With Intestinal Blockage?
Posted by: "helpshelteranimals" helpshelteranimals@yahoo.com helpshelteranimals
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 7:41 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Bailes2 <gingerb@...> wrote:
>
> Has she been wormed? I think I'd see how she felt this morning about
> eating.

> Ginger
**************

Hasn't been wormed, there have been no worms in her poo. I found some
poo this morning on her bottom and found some kitten poo still semi
fresh in the litter box. It seemed a little hairy and she threw up a
hairball about 5 days ago. This morning her belly was back to normal
but as soon as she ate she was bulgy again. Since I know the bulges
will down I am not as worried as I was last night but she has a 3:45
vet appt today. If she is pooping it's not blockage right??? Please
say yes!! I fed her some pork pieces not much but she still
buldged...and they are irregular buldges like you can feel the chunks
of meat in her stomach. Scary!

AG& Ruffian

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Old subject, new dog
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 6:34 am ((PDT))

During the transition to raw a little bright red blood in the stool
isn't uncommon. It just means that the lower bowel was irritated. Are
you feeding whole chickens or just a specific part? You might have too
much bone or too much food. Depending on how small the bit of liver
was, it might have caused the loose stools as well. It isn't that
puppies are too young for organ meats, you just have to introduce it
slowly for some dogs.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mob1043" <ynotbeastar@...> wrote:

> Tonight we noticed the two little ones have had diarrhea and the
> silky has some blood mixed in. She seems energetic and normal...I
> have been feeding strictly chicken w/ bone according to weight
> recommendations.
> Why do you think the bloody stool? Could this have anything to do
> with eating small bit of chicken liver and are pups to young for
> organ meats?

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Rabbit.... is it just me??
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 6:35 am ((PDT))

Ideally that would be the best way to feed rabbit, but some dogs just
don't "do" furry creatures. While Geiger *loves* skinned and dressed
rabbit he won't touch a whole one that still has fur.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "wandaful" <rondarosa@...> wrote:
>
> I keep getting more confused, not less. I have been picturing just
tossing a dog the whole rabbit....obviously killed, but not dressed.
> wanda

Messages in this topic (9)
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4b. Re: Rabbit.... is it just me??
Posted by: "wandaful" rondarosa@ftcnet.net rondaros
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 8:41 am ((PDT))

ooops, sorry. I guess I was asking a question....if you have whole carcasses like that, do you have to dress them if you are talking about feeding a larger (75lb) dog.
wanda
----- Original Message -----

: Hi Wanda,
:
: Not sure if you're answering Terri's question or if you have a question
: yourself. Want to clarify?
:
: Laurie

Messages in this topic (9)
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4c. Re: Rabbit.... is it just me??
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 9:16 am ((PDT))

"wandaful" <rondarosa@...> wrote:
>
> I keep getting more confused, not less. I have been picturing just
tossing a dog the whole rabbit....obviously killed, but not dressed.
*****
IMO this is the perfect way to feed rabbit. However, although I'm fine
with it and one of my dogs is fine with it, the other dogs ain't buying
the concept at all. And of course there are people for whom the notion
is intolerable.

Like the commercial says, we don't live anywhere near Perfect.

If you can feed your dogs whole rabbit, by all means do so! And feed
whole poultry and and even whole ruminants if it makes sense to your
dogs, your budget, your lifestyle. And if you can't feed whole, feed
big body parts. And if you can't feed big body parts, it's not the end
of the world.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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4d. Re: Rabbit.... is it just me??
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:08 am ((PDT))

"wandaful" <rondarosa@...> wrote:
>
> ooops, sorry. I guess I was asking a question....if you have whole
carcasses like that, do you have to dress them if you are talking about
feeding a larger (75lb) dog.
*****
No. You don't HAVE to dress them for any dog, if the dog is willing.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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5a. Re: How do you feed a sick dog?
Posted by: "Marion" mbldesigns@yahoo.com mbldesigns
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 6:56 am ((PDT))

I know. This is so very frustrating. He does know how to play us but
usually his hunger wins out after a few meals without eating and we
win. But this is ridiculous. He acts normal, in that he just lays
there and moves around to a cooler spot on the floor. He is still
getting up to drink water. He's deaf, so I have to pet his head or
jump on the floor if he's really asleep to get him to get up and go
outside. He's still peeing. He hasn't pooped since Wed evening when it
was still diarrhea. He keeps looking at me expectantly whenever he
sees me, I can tell he's hungry, but it's almost like everything turns
his stomach. You know when you have the stomach flu how you just don't
want certain foods and some turn your stomach.

I'll be calling the vet in a few minutes, yeah.

THanks for everything, you are really great. Bernie is just stubborn
Marion

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> I really don't know if he is doing this because he is sick...or if
he's
> waiting for you to fuss over him and offer something better. Only you
can
> see just how ill this dog is or whether he is playing you.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang

Messages in this topic (11)
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6a. Re: Louie is getting better....I think
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 7:13 am ((PDT))

Thanks again everyone. I started him on them last night....let's keep
our fingers crossed that I see an improvement in the near future.
Mandy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, ginny wilken <gwilken@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2007, at 1:06 PM, mandajenwalker wrote:
>
> > I haven't put him on the meds that she gave me yet. I don't know if
> > that is the right thing to do or not. I don't want the meds to
> > interfere with my observation of the raw diet.....is that the right
> > thing to do? Should I be giving him the meds to? Or is the raw diet
> > going to help with his problem? Just not sure.
> > Please let me know,
> > Thanks,
> > Mandy
> >
>
>
> Mandy, he needs those meds to get his function back to normal. The
> diet will not restore a broken thyroid gland, and poor diet did not
> cause it either. He will do better in every respect when his
> metabolism is brought back up to speed.
>
> Don't think of thyroid replacement as a med; it's just a substance
> the body needs that it is not making for itself in adequate amounts
> any more.
>
> ginny and Tomo
>
>
> All stunts performed without a net!
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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6b. Re: Louie is getting better....I think
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:32 am ((PDT))

On Sep 7, 2007, at 7:05 AM, mandajenwalker wrote:

> Thanks again everyone. I started him on them last night....let's keep
> our fingers crossed that I see an improvement in the near future.
> Mandy

It WILL take several weeks to see any difference, and months to get
him on a even keel where you can retest his levels. This is a long-
term adjustment, so be patient.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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7a. Rookie Questions
Posted by: "krystal_brr" rkbarr@hughes.net krystal_brr
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 8:28 am ((PDT))

I am just starting to feed raw and obviously have some questions.

If I feed mostly venison, since we have that in abundance, will I need
to add some kind of fat to the diet, since venison is so lean?

Are wild game birds close enough to chicken? The wild bird bones seem
alot harder. Are they OK to start with?

I have Rhodesian Ridgebacks (2).

Thank you
Krystal

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: Rookie Questions
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:06 am ((PDT))

"krystal_brr" <rkbarr@...> wrote:
> If I feed mostly venison, since we have that in abundance, will I
need
> to add some kind of fat to the diet, since venison is so lean?
*****
I have fed venison that was virtually fatfree and I have fed venison
that carried a lot of back fat. I think wolves in a healthy,
sustainable wild environment would have ample opportunity to eat
fatty meat as well as lean. So if your primary source of meat is
consistently lean, I recommend you either add fat to the meals or
rotate the lean venison with fattier meats. Your dogs need fat; it
is not an option, it is basic equipment.

> Are wild game birds close enough to chicken? The wild bird bones
seem
> alot harder. Are they OK to start with?
*****
Wild game birds will always be more appropriate than factory
chicken. Wild bones are likely to be harder because the wild bird
actually used them to run and fly and eat bugs and do silly bird
things. Also, wild fowl will probably be older than domestic
chickens processed at six weeks or so.

If I were in your enviable situation, I would feed my dogs wild game
and let them decide what bones were edible and what bones weren't
worth it. Those of us to rely on domestic livestock are accustomed
to a softer, easier menu but there's nothing that says a softer,
easier menu is better. If you would feel more comfortable starting
with commercial chicken, by all means go for it. You can transition
your dogs (and yourself!) to wild as it seems proper to do so.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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8. 5 months in checkup/organs
Posted by: "flyinheller" lheller@bellsouth.net flyinheller
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 8:30 am ((PDT))

Everything is going great on raw but just wanted to make sure I'm
giving enough variety when it comes to organs specifically. Spenser is
getting beef or pork liver, beef or pork kidney, and occasionally green
tripe. I haven't found much else at the stores. Is that sufficient
organ variety?

Thanks,

Lisa

Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. Re: My first raw shopping trip.....
Posted by: "saucy_senorita2003" saucy_senorita2003@yahoo.com saucy_senorita2003
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 8:31 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Bailes2 <gingerb@...> wrote:
>
> Well our first day went well. Bandit (pyr pup) ate 4 chicken leg
> quarters of his own and then stole another from the other dog who is
turning up his nose at raw. The only thing is he is being VERY
aggressive with the other dogs during and right after I feed them. He
normally eats out of the bowl with the little dog and last night I was
worried he was going to hurt him. >
> Ginger
>
Ginger - I have this same issue with my year old Danes. I have to
separate them when feeding them Raw and they've been on Raw for 3
months now. Sometimes they're more aggressive with each other than
other times, so the best thing would be to separate Bandit until he
learns his manners. I also make sure as soon as they are done eating,
any "remnants" of their meals are cleaned up and put away right away.
They both have their own "feeding area" which is well supervised by me.
Good Luck!
Lynda & The Twin Danes (Jack & Jill)

Messages in this topic (5)
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10a. Re: It won't hurt them if
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 8:53 am ((PDT))

"I can get beef scraps... meat... bones( it's where I get all my beef bones
from... it's free.. family knows the butcher).... but I could also get
things like the heart, and all the things they don't use... which is a lot
of of the cows, pigs... everything they use... I was wondering. It wouldn't
hurt for them to get none human grade right? Right now there beef is in
human cuts...."

Not at all - major score for your fur babies!!!! Don't feed too much organ
tho, it's too rich, and heart is considered a muscle and can be fed daily,
but it can be a little rich for some dogs in the beginning. Take eveything
you can get from your butcher.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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11a. Re: Salmonella
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 8:53 am ((PDT))

"When you feed raw chicken, do you have to worry about salmonella?"

No ~ I lay down a sheet or old towel I can pick up an wash since they all
eat in the kitchen.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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12a. Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 9:04 am ((PDT))

I am just racking my brain to try to exercise all of my free meat
options, and we keep shooting squirrels off of our back deck that are
feasting on our suet and bird seed. Would these fresh kills be okay
for the dogs?

My husband will be weirded out, but I don't mind fixing them up for
the girls if it would be good for them.

-Steph
Scarlet (venison is the BOMB!)
Lucy (I second that!)
Minkey (still a ki**le kitty for now)

Messages in this topic (3)
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12b. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
Posted by: "S.R. Sudekum" ssudekum@centurytel.net fassue
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:17 am ((PDT))

steph.sorensen wrote:
> I am just racking my brain to try to exercise all of my free meat
> options, and we keep shooting squirrels off of our back deck that are
> feasting on our suet and bird seed. Would these fresh kills be okay
> for the dogs?

I don't intentionally feed my dogs squirrels, but sometimes the
Dalmatian corners one in the garage and the Corgi finishes it off, and
no harm done so far, LOL!

Sue in Michigan

Messages in this topic (3)
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12c. Re: Does anyone ever feed squirrel?
Posted by: "k9dine" k9dine@yahoo.com k9dine
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:17 am ((PDT))

I have never done so, but I lament that my in-laws don't have any pest
squirrels or rabbits that they could shoot for me on their farm. It
sounds like a great source of cheap food if you're killing them
anyway! (We live in town and while shooting the rabbits that insist on
eating my peas to the ground every year sounds great, the neighbors
would NOT be impressed.)

I say go for it!

amanda

Messages in this topic (3)
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13. COPROPHAGY
Posted by: "Steve Gomes" gomes@alamedanet.net stvgomes
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 9:18 am ((PDT))

Has anyone noticed if raw feeding effects changes in a dog with
coprophagy?

Thanks.

Steve

Messages in this topic (1)
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14a. Chicken wings vs other parts??
Posted by: "Steve Gomes" gomes@alamedanet.net stvgomes
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:17 am ((PDT))

Would the higher bone to meat ratio offered by wings make it a better
whole food than other chicken parts?

Thanks.

Steve

Messages in this topic (2)
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14b. Re: Chicken wings vs other parts??
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:38 am ((PDT))

"Steve Gomes" <gomes@...> wrote:
>
> Would the higher bone to meat ratio offered by wings make it a better
> whole food than other chicken parts?
*****
I think you have this backwards.
Because chicken wings have a higher bone to meat ratio, they are not as
good a whole food as other chicken parts. Well, except maybe for
necks, which are easily as inappropriate as wings.

For all dogs wings are not meaty enough; for all but the smallest dogs
and cats wings are also too small.

A whole, processed, commercially-raised chicken is somewhat more than
25% bone (edible) on a good day: A good raw diet needs include little
more than 10% bone (edible). A wing on a good day is 46% edible bone!

If you believe your dog is small enough to feed a wing to, add meat to
the meal AND make sure you feed plenty of boneless meals as well.

In most cases a wing/breast combination, or a wing/shoulder
combination, of a half or even whole bird will be a better use of
resources. Meaty bones the dog has to work through and grapple with
offer exercise, dental hygiene, mental hygiene and entertainment as
well as nutrition.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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15. New to this: how much to feed to start?
Posted by: "Jenny" jguttormson@austin.rr.com lexx827
Date: Fri Sep 7, 2007 10:17 am ((PDT))

I am new to raw feeding and want to get my 7 yr old bassett hound
started on it. He's 67 lbs, not overweight, and is active for a
bassett hound. I read that a good baseline is to feed them 2-3% of body
weight daily. That comes out to about 1.6lbs a day. To all of you
experts out there, does this sound like a good place to start?

Messages in this topic (1)
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