[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12365

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Okay, Wow!
From: Andrea

2a. Re: Organs to New Raw Eaters
From: sisterloui
2b. Re: Organs to New Raw Eaters
From: Chia
2c. Re: Organs to New Raw Eaters
From: costrowski75

3a. Chi new to raw - status
From: Kelly
3b. Re: Chi new to raw - status
From: ada
3c. Re: Chi new to raw - status
From: costrowski75

4a. feeder wildlife
From: h h

5a. Fiber Question
From: Kevin Brown
5b. Re: Fiber Question
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: The Heart of the Matter
From: carnesbill

7. Eastern WA - RAW Feeders
From: Maggie Smith

8a. Re: not working yet
From: sheila
8b. Re: not working yet
From: Tina Berry
8c. Re: not working yet - OT -- Sorry!
From: marblekallie
8d. Re: not working yet
From: ginny wilken

9a. Re: veal sweetbreads...
From: woofwoofgrrl
9b. Re: veal sweetbreads...
From: costrowski75
9c. Re: veal sweetbreads...
From: ginny wilken

10a. Re: New & I did it!
From: Karen Ditton
10b. Re: New & I did it!
From: Karen Ditton

11a. Re: Having trouble eating RMBs
From: delcaste
11b. Re: Having trouble eating RMBs
From: delcaste

12a. 1st raw meal
From: hoelpl
12b. Re: 1st raw meal
From: Yasuko herron

Messages
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1a. Re: Okay, Wow!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:54 pm ((PST))

Yeah, all of us were kind of wobbly when we first started, but I assure
you that it gets easier as you go along. It's hard to know if you are
feeding too much food at first unless you have consistently loose
stools. Otherwise you just have to keep an eye on the dog to see if
they are getting too pudgy. It isn't always helpful to watch the scale
because many dogs convert fat to muscle and put on pounds while
actually getting leaner. Just keep an eye on how they look and adjust
food from there. With so many dogs you're doing great!

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Irene Clark" <ireneclark@...> wrote:

> Now I have a week to prepare to make more changes. Please tell me
> more confidence will come!!!!

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Organs to New Raw Eaters
Posted by: "sisterloui" habershon@aol.com sisterloui
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:37 pm ((PST))

Ah the problem with liver!

My labrador will eat every bone, bit of offal or scrap except liver.

He plays and throws it about for hours !!

After finding my white kitchen and ceiling liberally decorated with
liver scraps I decided just to pass on the liver in future (grin)

Best wishes,
Jane

PS Thanks for all the info about spaniels, i have switched her over to
raw foods today and for the first time she seemed to ejoy her dinner.
Many thanks folks

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Organs to New Raw Eaters
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:42 pm ((PST))

After finding my white kitchen and ceiling liberally decorated with
liver scraps I decided just to pass on the liver in future (grin)

### nice thought, but liver is one of those 'essential' eating items...
you'll figure it out..most of us have figured out how to get liver into
them.....it isn't an optional feed, like tripe or kidney, this is the big
leagues of the nutritional powerhouse for our little 'Wolves".

Chia & Ricco

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Messages in this topic (5)
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2c. Re: Organs to New Raw Eaters
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:26 pm ((PST))

"sisterloui" <habershon@...> wrote:>
> Ah the problem with liver!
*****
Not every dog has a problem with liver. Not every dog has a problem
with all liver.

After finding my white kitchen and ceiling liberally decorated with
> liver scraps I decided just to pass on the liver in future (grin)
*****
I don't think it's an especially sensible answer to simply give up on
liver. You needn't feed much of it but you gotta feed some of it. 3%-
5% of the menu over time is not a large amount. It is an essential
body part.

Whatever liver you tried and failed with, try something else. Beef,
turkey, chicken, pork, lamb, venison, goat--all got livers.

Whatever presentation you tried and failed with, try something else.
Frozen, semi-frozen, seared, dried, ground up and mixed with meat,
slivered, sliced, cubed--there is some combination of species and
presentation that will work.

And don't do trial runs in your kitchen.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Chi new to raw - status
Posted by: "Kelly" kpetska@mgmmirage.com kpet1218
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:37 pm ((PST))

Hello everyone,

Just an update on Yoshi - 3 lb male 1y/o Chi

We started raw last Tuesday and by Friday night he was finally working
with this front teeth and using his front paws to hold and pull the
meat off the bones (chicken thighs, legs, wings). Yay!

Right now, he gets 1.5 oz of just meat in the morning and then a meaty
bone in the evening. I don't weigh that, just let him eat till he's
done. I throw in a piece of heart here and there. So far, no loose
stools.

When is the nasty kibble breath going to go away? I can definitely see
the chicken tendons "flossing" his teeth when he's pulling away at a
bone. I also need to give him liver at some point right?

Thanks,
Kelly Petska

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Chi new to raw - status
Posted by: "ada" mom2moz@yahoo.com mom2moz
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:29 pm ((PST))

--- Kelly <kpetska@mgmmirage.com> wrote:
> When is the nasty kibble breath going to go away? I
> can definitely see
> the chicken tendons "flossing" his teeth when he's
> pulling away at a
> bone. I also need to give him liver at some point
> right?

Thanks for the update Kelly,

I love to hear success stories! Yaaaay for Yoshi.
He's definitely ahead of mine in the mechanics of this
RAW eating. Mine are staunch supporters of the
no-RAW-on-my-paws approach :).

Give his teeth/doggy breath a bit longer. He's still
detoxing from the k***le, too.

Yes, include a bit of liver; but be judicious re
amount. Too much liver = cannon bum.

ada
mo (silkie/shih-tzu/maltese mutt) & abbie (yorkie)

"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole." ~ Roger Caras

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Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. Re: Chi new to raw - status
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:01 pm ((PST))

"Kelly" <kpetska@...> wrote:
> When is the nasty kibble breath going to go away?
*****
If it's mouth smell, it should be gone or be very close to being gone
unless there are bad teeth in there. The kibble effect goes away right
quick. Bad teeth smell won't go away until the bad teeth are gone.

If it's digestion smell, that will diminish with time on the job
although a bigger/fattier meal than usual may produce a temporary
digestion aroma.

I also need to give him liver at some point right?
*****
Yeah, but you don't need to rush things if you aren't comfortable yet.
I start adding bits of liver almost immediately; perhaps because of
that, liver has never been a significant issue with my dogs or cats.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. feeder wildlife
Posted by: "h h" deedeekinsisme@yahoo.com tarbedyh
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:37 pm ((PST))

I am a wildlife rehabber with a state and federally lisenced agency and can just consult my list... but, off the top of my head raccoons were mentioned recently, that scares the stuff outta me, cuz they are a rabies vector species..no way in heck would I feed that to my kids, anymore than Id eat it myself..course. ..I AM a vegetarian, LOL

~~~~~~~~~~
Not that I feed raccoon to my dogs and cats (and I definitely wouldn't be feeding raccoon to baby goats <g>), but I wouldn't worry much about a dog getting rabies from being fed raccoon meat. The virus doesn't survive very long outside a living host so all one would have to do is wait a couple of days before feeding the raccoon to the dog...and I am pretty sure that most people here freeze wild game and/or roadkill for a few weeks before feeding anyhow.

HEIDI MARIE
~with the woofs-Cheyenne and Lazy B~
~and the moggies-Minerva, Shasta, and Misty-Jo~

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Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Fiber Question
Posted by: "Kevin Brown" jerseykev@aol.com noblarneyzone
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:37 pm ((PST))

Hi, everyone.

My raw feed experience has been great with both my girls. The younger
turned 6 months today, the older is 4 weeks to the day older.

They love their raw. One is a grazer, and the other a glutton. It has
been fun helping the grazer get her portion, as the glutton knows all
her hiding spots.

I am looking for some suggestions on fiber and the calculated % of
daily fiber best for large breed dogs.

Thanks

KEVIN BROWN
GuardiansByTheSea.com
HOME OF BABY INDEPENDENCE & DAWN EDGE CURIOUS GEOGEANNE
The Jersey Shore

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Fiber Question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:33 pm ((PST))

"Kevin Brown" <jerseykev@...> wrote:
> I am looking for some suggestions on fiber and the calculated % of
> daily fiber best for large breed dogs.
*****
Hi, Kevin.

"Fiber" for rawfed dogs is bone. Well, bone and connective tissue.
There is no place for vegetable fiber if that's what you mean. If you
are feeding 10%-15% or so edible bone, you are already feeding
appropriate fiber.

Some dogs "do better" with more edible bone, some dogs "do better" with
less bone. So you will have to adjust dietary bone for each dog, and
as the menu changes and your dogs mature, the adjusting will continue.
But that's it. No other fiber required.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: The Heart of the Matter
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:37 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "krystal_brr" <rkbarr@...> wrote:
>
> I am a little confused about heart.

Heart IS a muscle meat but it's a very rich muscle meat. I suggest
feeding small amounts of heart with a meal and gradually adding more
heart and less other meat if you want to feed whole meals of heart. I
never have. I always just give heart as an addition to a regular
meal. Others feed whole meals.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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7. Eastern WA - RAW Feeders
Posted by: "Maggie Smith" redkeds@comcast.net redkeds1
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:37 pm ((PST))

Hi All,

I am currently living in Seattle and most likely moving to Spokane area
in the next few months - where do you get your raw from? Prices?

I am pretty happy with Plymouth in Seattle and the stuff from
wazzuorbarf, but don't know what my options will be for the new area.

Feeding 3 Great Danes, approximately 6-8 pounds a day, give or take.

Thanks!
Maggie, Rufus, Oliver and Mickey

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Re: not working yet
Posted by: "sheila" schatzee@comporium.net osborne_sheila
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:05 pm ((PST))

I have antibiotics which i try not to use, prednisone if it's really bad, and i've used many ear cleaners one being was otomax. sheila
----- Original Message -----
From: Tina Berry
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] not working yet

"Ears are still inflamed and black gunk in one of her ears. Any
suggestions?"

It's going to take up to 90 days to see the end results. What does the vet
say about his ears? and what do you use to keep them clean?
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared

www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (7)
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8b. Re: not working yet
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:29 pm ((PST))

http://www.botanicaldog.com/proddetail.php?prod=ACT0003
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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8c. Re: not working yet - OT -- Sorry!
Posted by: "marblekallie" marble@pipeline.com marblekallie
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:52 pm ((PST))

Hi:

Yes, I know this should be in Raw Chat, but I had to relay my
experience with a bad ear infection. I had a horrible problem with
a left ear on one of my Dachshunds. She was treated with
homeopathy, but to no avail, though her temper improved. But, poor
dog, the ear never really cleared up.

Fast forward to this year. I took her over to her breeder, who
cleaned out the ear with cotton, then hydrogen peroxide, then put in
something called Otopet Terapia (Italian product) which was both an
anti-fungal and antibiotic for the ear. He did it two days in a row
and the ear was completely cleared up. This was in late June and
the ear is still clear. All the soreness and redness went away
along with the infection.

Philippa Jordan
New York City

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sheila" <schatzee@...> wrote:
>
> I have antibiotics which i try not to use, prednisone if it's
really bad, and i've used many ear cleaners one being was otomax.

Messages in this topic (7)
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8d. Re: not working yet
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:38 pm ((PST))

On Dec 11, 2007, at 2:42 PM, sheila wrote:

> I have antibiotics which i try not to use, prednisone if it's
> really bad, and i've used many ear cleaners one being was otomax.
> sheila

If you take this to Rawchat, we can advise a better course of action.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (7)
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9a. Re: veal sweetbreads...
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:30 pm ((PST))

So Chris, is $7.99/lb a horribly high price for thymus or pancreas or
should I pick it up since it's the first and only time I've seen it?

Christine
>
> costrowski75 wrote:
>>
>>
>> "borodeauxs" <Borodeauxs@...> wrote:
>> Sweetbread is the testicles of an animal,..
>> *****
>> I don't think so. I think we've pretty much covered the possibilities:
>> pancreas and/or thymus. If you've got references that support your
>> claim, please feel free to post them.
>>
>> Chris O
>>
>>
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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9b. Re: veal sweetbreads...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:22 pm ((PST))

woofwoofgrrl <cmc4lists1@...> wrote:>
> So Chris, is $7.99/lb a horribly high price for thymus or pancreas or
> should I pick it up since it's the first and only time I've seen it?
*****
IMO unless you are buying it for a humdinger of a meal for humans, it's
a too horribly high price. OTOH, if you want to get the curiosity out
of your system, just do it and chalk it up to learning curve.

I myself would not pay that price. For $7.99/lb I'm sure I can buy
some manner of whole prey and get lots more than a gland.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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9c. Re: veal sweetbreads...
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:52 pm ((PST))

On Dec 11, 2007, at 4:29 PM, woofwoofgrrl wrote:

> So Chris, is $7.99/lb a horribly high price for thymus or pancreas or
> should I pick it up since it's the first and only time I've seen it?
>
> Christine

About right for human-grade thymus-type. Way too high for pancreas,
and not the same at all, in my mind. And not essential. I'd feed
pancreas if it came up occasionally, but wouldn't hunt it down
unless, perhaps, I had an EPI dog. Incidentally, Greentripe.com has
it for $1.85/lb. ground and frozen.

No way some dog is gonna get ahold of sweetbreads when I'm in the
vicinity:) Pass the sherry!

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (10)
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10a. Re: New & I did it!
Posted by: "Karen Ditton" karenditton@urassociation.com karenditton
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:48 pm ((PST))

Michelle wrote:

>>Good luck, and don't be afraid to switch the puppy.

Thanks for the encouragement! It is a bit unnerving at first!

Karen

Messages in this topic (5)
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10b. Re: New & I did it!
Posted by: "Karen Ditton" karenditton@urassociation.com karenditton
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:52 pm ((PST))

Andrea wrote:

>>Too much food at once can often cause loose stools

Well... we've had our first stool. It wasn't loose at all.
<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=7423526/grpspId=1707421080/msgId
=148756/stime=1197395458/nc1=5028924/nc2=4834088/nc3=4840958> It did have
a lighter color than usual, maybe a bit yellowish, and was a bit crumbly.

So... does that mean anything that I should be aware of? Or is that within
the normal range? (OK... I'm discussing my dogs poop! Worst still I went
out with a flashlight to look at it! Please don't tell any of the PTA
moms!)

I went ahead and fed the puppy chicken tonight too. He licked it for a
while and you could tell he really liked it, but wasn't sure what to do with
it. Pretty soon he started managing to get pieces off and we heard little
crunching sounds. He worked at it for quite a while and ate most of what I
gave him. At the end he was obviously full. He's now sound asleep... a
very content baby with a full tummy! :-)

Thanks for all the support!!! I'm as nervous as a first time mom!

Karen

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Messages in this topic (5)
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11a. Re: Having trouble eating RMBs
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:48 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> How long has he been eating raw? It's possible he just needs to
work
> up his jaw strength. I'd feed him something easy like ribboned
chicken
> breast or pork roast. Stashing the food in the freezer for a short
> time might not be a bad idea either since it would firm up the meat
a
> bit.

He's been eating raw since late March so he should be accustomed to
it, right?

Lots of dogs refuse to touch their food with their paws. If gravity
gets it done for him that's ok.

It makes me laugh to see him giving it these funky little shakes...oh
well.

> What kind of foods and size of foods are you feeding? Does he
crunch
> through bones ok or are those a problem as well?

Chunkie can eat his portion of ribboned meat ok and he can crunch
through bones. I'll try feeding him meat partially frozen...Thanks
Andrea.

Silvina

Messages in this topic (5)
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11b. Re: Having trouble eating RMBs
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:48 pm ((PST))

For things like lamb or pork, I have to feed them half
> frozen, then she does okay. If I feed them thawed, she chews and
chews
> but just kind of mushes the meat. With chicken, I have to remove most
> of the skin. Otherwise, she's doing great and loves her raw food.
j

I'll try the partially frozen and see how he does. He loves his raw
food. He's a pug and his eyes look like they'll pop out of his head
when he sees the raw stuff. This gumming is getting to me though, lol.
Thanks for the tip.

Silvina

Messages in this topic (5)
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12a. 1st raw meal
Posted by: "hoelpl" hoelpl@peoplepc.com hoelpl
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:20 pm ((PST))

For a while I have been giving Syd some raw bones (beef rib and
vertebra that had little meat on them), for teeth cleaning, and
entertainment. Tonight I gave her a raw turkey neck. After staring
at it for 10 min, sniffing and licking it for another 5, the munching
began! She is ruff-ly 55lbs, so about 1.5 lbs a day, right?

Now, I have a problem.

We will be traveling to mom's for the holidays, and she (and
especially brother) are not ok with Raw. Is it ok to switch her to
kibble while we are there and back to raw when we come home? We go up
about once a month for a weekend, so this switch would happen
repeatedly. I know it is not ideal, but is it ok?

Holly

Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: 1st raw meal
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:46 pm ((PST))

> Tonight I gave her a raw turkey neck. She is ruff-ly 55lbs, so about 1.5 lbs a day, right?

Hi. Turkey Neck is not as bony as chicken wing or chicken neck or ribs,but it still is bony side.If you fed 1.5lb of Neck only,the dogs would have poo prob;constipation maybe.

if you feed Turkey neck, add boneless meat to it so that dog meal is mostly meat and bit of bone.

I suggest, buy a whole Turkey and cut to portion and,feed through it until you see your dog digesting good on Turkey meal.

If 55lb were ideal adult weight,then,yes,if you go to 2% guideline,you been feeding about 1lb,if you go to 3% guideline,roughly 1.5lb. yes.

Since your dog is newbie dog,maybe feed twice a day by deviding the amount like half lb per meal or so and then,try ,moving to larger amount one meal,smaller meal the other andas end,you feed once aday maybe way to go to avoid upset tummy prob.

Raw meat is new food to dog,so,baby step would be good.

>We will be traveling to mom's for the holidays,

Me too. and,it will be looong drive from here;12hrs by car!! to IN!!

Since thisyear is first rawfeeding year,I had to ask mother in law for freezer space but she said she has room for palette in freezer,lol(I know she was joking).

so,I will see how it goes.

> she (and especially brother) are not ok with Raw. Is it ok to switch her to
kibble while we are there and back to raw when we come home? We go up
about once a month for a weekend, so this switch would happen repeatedly.

I think that if you do back and forth once a month like that between kibble and raw food,I am imagining that your dog may have upset tummy problems.

Maybe you can talk to them why they don't like them or not ok with this feeding. IF they don't like to see the dog eating,then,you can feed outside maybe or somewhere they are not being able to see the dog,and if they did not like to touch the meal,you can tell them you can feed all the time.

My husband thinks rawfeeding is dog's natural feeding and agree to this feeding but,he does not want to touch it,so,I always feed and touch meat.He is ok and even enjoy watching her eating though.Just touching meat was not his thing.

If you talk to them,you maybe find way for solution?

If you find "why" they are not ok with that, you can solve problem easier,I think.

If they are not ok with bonefor dogs,then,you can talk about cook bone are no no but raw bone are ok etc.

yassy

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12364

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. How much salmon oil?
From: j2dope17
1b. Re: How much salmon oil?
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: How much salmon oil?
From: j2dope17
1d. Re: How much salmon oil?
From: costrowski75
1e. Re: How much salmon oil?
From: Tina Berry
1f. Scratching
From: Jessica MacMillan
1g. Re: How much salmon oil?
From: adkjoe17

2. Rabbit in NE Ohio
From: msgadabout

3a. Re: Leg quarters question
From: ychinook

4a. Sweetbreads,
From: Viento Pampero

5a. Re: Having trouble eating RMBs
From: Andrea

6a. Re: veal sweetbreads...
From: costrowski75

7a. New & I did it!
From: karenditton
7b. Re: New & I did it!
From: Andrea
7c. Re: New & I did it!
From: mmc2315

8a. not working yet
From: sheila
8b. Re: not working yet
From: cynthia iparraguirre
8c. Re: not working yet
From: Tina Berry

9a. Re: Question on RMB
From: jaygaughan

10. Okay, Wow!
From: Irene Clark

11.1. New to raw
From: Sam Thurlow

12a. Organs to New Raw Eaters
From: Barbara
12b. Re: Organs to New Raw Eaters
From: Chia

13a. The Heart of the Matter
From: krystal_brr
13b. Re: The Heart of the Matter
From: Andrea

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. How much salmon oil?
Posted by: "j2dope17" j2dope17@yahoo.com j2dope17
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:43 am ((PST))

Siberian husky 12 weeks old about 15 lb. How often should I be giving
her grizzly salmon oil? Once a day? every meal? once a week? Thanks!

Joe

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: How much salmon oil?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:39 am ((PST))

"j2dope17" <j2dope17@...> wrote:
>
> Siberian husky 12 weeks old about 15 lb. How often should I be
giving
> her grizzly salmon oil? Once a day? every meal? once a week?
*****
I don't think you have to be giving any at all for now. If you feel
her diet is signficantly lacking or if she has health issues, you might
give her a small dose every day.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: How much salmon oil?
Posted by: "j2dope17" j2dope17@yahoo.com j2dope17
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:09 am ((PST))

EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.

I don't think you have to be giving any at all for now. If you feel
> her diet is signficantly lacking or if she has health issues, you
might
> give her a small dose every day.
> Chris O

Thanks Chris I appreciate it. Why would you say you don't think she
wouldn't need any now? because of her age or? I read a lot about
people adding salmon oil to the diet but really what are the
benefits? Is it only used for health problems or is it something
older dogs need more than puppies? I'm just curious if it is
something that I should be adding to her diet or not. If it's not
something she needs than thats great because I would rather not have
to give her any but it seems a lot of people use it and I didn't
know if I was missing something. Thanks!

Joe

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: How much salmon oil?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:04 am ((PST))

"j2dope17" <j2dope17@...> wrote:
Why would you say you don't think she
> wouldn't need any now? because of her age or?
****
I don't think it's necessary; others think it's necessary. You get
to choose. Or you can split the difference and give her several
doses a week. Or give some and then don't.

How long has she been eating raw? What have you been feeding her?
How's she doing? Has she been vaccinated? Is there a lot of
unmanaged stress in her life?

Omega 3 supports the immune and nervous system. It contains DHA
which helps developing brains and eyes. It's an anti-inflammatory.
It is naturally available in grassfed meats, free-ranging poultry and
wild marine fish. It's definitely recommended to address certain
health issues and it's also used to improve the status quo.
Supplemental O3 helps reduce the O6 load from grainfed livestock.

It would be my choice to first get the girl eating a variety of foods
well. If you and she are comfortable with her diet and her progress
and you aren't frazzled by the raw experience and you've got time to
find the most effective dose for her, go for it. If you need more
time to sort through some of the nuances of raw, cut yourself some
slack and don't try to do everything at once.

That's the best I can offer.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1e. Re: How much salmon oil?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:51 am ((PST))

"I would rather not have to give her any but it seems a lot of people use it
and I didn't know if I was missing something."

The only reason I give salmon oil daily is for the shedding. If I didn't
have shedders, I'd probably still give some for skin and coat reasons.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

1f. Scratching
Posted by: "Jessica MacMillan" spotted101@hotmail.com jessica.macmillan
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:28 am ((PST))

Hi All -

Just a quick question. We have been on raw since June and about the same time the humidity dropped, Pepper, my youngster started scratching. I don't think it is the food as we are all itching and have dry skin too. Her coat is beautiful, her ears are clean, etc...

How much fish oil is too much and any other suggestions for alleviating dry skin itch?

Diet consists of chicken carcasses, backs, and parts, venison, beef, pork necks, beef necks, etc... whatever we can find. I also do yogurt a few times a week, liver once a month and whatever else strikes my fancy (and theirs too).. I do cycle through ground veggies occasionally as the dogs like them and I can mix them with misc. ground beef. I do use fish oil every day and egg several times a week.

Any scratch relief would be great...

Jess Mac
Paisley Dals (www.paisleydals.com)
& The Shepherd Girls

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Messages in this topic (7)
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1g. Re: How much salmon oil?
Posted by: "adkjoe17" j2dope17@yahoo.com adkjoe17
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:27 pm ((PST))

> The only reason I give salmon oil daily is for the shedding. If I
didn't
> have shedders, I'd probably still give some for skin and coat
reasons.

Thanks for the replies Chris and Tina, I will experiment and figure
out what is right. As of right now I don't think it's very important
she has a good diet and eats grass fed meat etc... I will report back
with an update, thanks again you guys were very helpfull!!

Joe

Messages in this topic (7)
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________________________________________________________________________

2. Rabbit in NE Ohio
Posted by: "msgadabout" lowen@neo.rr.com msgadabout
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:43 am ((PST))

I live in NE Ohio and I have a lot of whole rabbit (not dressed, not
skinned or gutted) in the freezer. It used to go to a raptor rehab
center but due to losing their property, they had to close. Freezer is
getting full and I am offering it for $1.00 per pound or $0.75 for ten
pounds or more. I have all sizes, from pinkies to 5 pounders. Email me
off-list for more information at O_Hares_Rabbitry @ yahoo.com (remove
spaces)

Laurie

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Leg quarters question
Posted by: "ychinook" chinook.nr@tds.net ychinook
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:43 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> >I got a 600 lb boar they have also been working on,
>
> Wow,that is a lot!I am not sure how much lb of meat in palette's
freezer but 600lb seems very big amount!! Boar is.. a pig,right? How
did you get the boar? From hunter friends?

The boar (intact male pig) was given to me by a local farmer - it was
getting to be too much to handle. I have a 19cuft freezer just for
the dogs, but had to borrow space in a couple fiends freezers as well.
At least a forth was fat I trimmed away and I pick up and dispose of
the larger bones after a day. The older malamute isn't overly fond of
the boar, but my goal is keeping them healthy not spoiled :-)

>
> > Neither dog eats the larger bones of the boar so I throw in
chicken necks.
>
> Are you buying bag of chicken neck ?? if you wanted to give some
bones to their meal,you can give chicken feet,frog leg as well.
>

Necks, wings, whatever I can get. A lot of good deals on turkey parts
after thanksgiving :-) The farmer also gave me a five gal bucket of
chicken feet earlier this fall, but they are gone now. As you know,
one gets stuff when available and considers the source.

> >The GR puppy eats shell and all, but the malamute leaves the shell.
>
> Egg shell gives calcium to dogs but if you were feeding bone in
diet,you don't need to give shell.If they eats shell,fine,if not,fine
as well if you fed bone in diet.
>

Yep, thanks.

> yassy
>
>

Hoping this finds you all "As fit as a butcher's dog"
Lee, Karen, Buddy Bear and Holly

Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Sweetbreads,
Posted by: "Viento Pampero" dogoycondor.argentinos@yahoo.com dogoycondor.argentinos
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:43 am ((PST))

Firstly, I would like to state how very happy I am to have found a
forum like this with so many like minded and intelliget individuals.

Sweetbreads, or (mollejas) as we call them in Argentina are the
pancreas, or on occasion the thymus glands of both bovine and ovine
origins. These organ meats contain a higher amount of vitamin A and B
Complex than muscle tissue and are therefore a valuable and natural for
the same, however all in moderation.

In the feeding of our Dogos, we would nearly utilize the whole carcass
of freshly slaughtered cattle or sheep, with the occasional exception
of the sweetbreads, those, we would eat ourselves.

Again, it is a pleasure to be here, I've already learned a great deal.

Best regards,

Juan Carlos

Messages in this topic (7)
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________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Having trouble eating RMBs
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:06 am ((PST))

How long has he been eating raw? It's possible he just needs to work
up his jaw strength. I'd feed him something easy like ribboned chicken
breast or pork roast. Stashing the food in the freezer for a short
time might not be a bad idea either since it would firm up the meat a
bit.

> If I give him a hunk of meat, even when I ribbon it, he won't touch
> the meat with his paws but shakes it and shakes it till pieces drop
> off.

That's not really a problem. Lots of dogs refuse to touch their food
with their paws. If gravity gets it done for him that's ok.

What kind of foods and size of foods are you feeding? Does he crunch
through bones ok or are those a problem as well?

Andrea

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: veal sweetbreads...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:36 am ((PST))

"borodeauxs" <Borodeauxs@...> wrote:
Sweetbread is the testicles of an animal,..
*****
I don't think so. I think we've pretty much covered the possibilities:
pancreas and/or thymus. If you've got references that support your
claim, please feel free to post them.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. New & I did it!
Posted by: "karenditton" karenditton@urassociation.com karenditton
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:07 am ((PST))

Hi!

I joined this list a few days ago. I had been thinking on and off
about switching to raw food for my dogs for some time, but had always
been afraid to make the leap! I first heard about the concept 9
years ago, but the recipes and formulas I heard at the time seemed so
complicated and I was afraid I'd not give my dog a balanced diet. I
did feed some raw foods occasionally along the way, but was never
able to feel confident enough to make the switch.

Recently I began researching again and this time the information I've
found seems a lot simpler to do! So... we are making the switch!

My dog is large (right about 100 lbs) and slightly underweight (he's
always just picked at his kibble) so I decided to start him at the 3%
level and watch that he doesn't gain too much. So that's 3 pounds a
day. And, based on what I've read, chicken is a good place to start,
so we're starting there.

This morning I cut a chicken in half and set it on the floor. I knew
he liked raw chicken, but had never given him a big piece like this.
Well... he did not need any instructions! He started right in
crunching bones as he went. In a few minutes it was gone! It
probably went down in about 4 large peices. He even licked every
tidbit up from the floor! That was probaly just over 2 lbs! I
really didn't expect him to eat it all based on the way he usually
picks at food and with him being new to this.

I'll give him a smaller peice tonight to make up the other pound, but
wanted to break it into two feedings to make it easier on his
digestion.

My plan is to stay with the chickens for a couple of weeks to let him
adjust and then start expanding the diet.

We also have a new puppy, and I want to switch him too, but I feel
less sure of what to do there. I figure a couple more days of kibble
won't kill him while I'm learning!

OK.. does what I did and am planning sound right? Any advice for
starting the puppy?

Thanks!

Karen

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: New & I did it!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:50 am ((PST))

Great job, Karen! Sounds like you did just fine for the first time.
The only change I might make is to stick closer to 2lbs at first rather
than going with 3lbs. Too much food at once can often cause loose
stools, and while loose stools aren't the end of the world, we humans
often believe that it is. It's great that your boy jumped right in,
sounds like he'll be pretty easy.

As for the pup, just do the same thing you are doing with the adult.
More often than not puppies accept variety more easily than adults do,
so you'll be fine taking the same route with both. Just start with 2%
of the pup's ideal adult weight and go from there.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "karenditton" <karenditton@...>
wrote:

> OK.. does what I did and am planning sound right? Any advice for
> starting the puppy?

Messages in this topic (3)
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7c. Re: New & I did it!
Posted by: "mmc2315" m.chelap@sbcglobal.net mmc2315
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:31 am ((PST))

Congrats Karen!

We were very excited to start feeding raw too. Even better to see the positive changes in our
dog. :)

We have a small dog, 10#, and we feed once a day. We started slow with just chicken, then
added pork, then rabbit. So far, so good!

Good luck, and don't be afraid to switch the puppy.

Michelle

Messages in this topic (3)
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________________________________________________________________________

8a. not working yet
Posted by: "sheila" schatzee@comporium.net osborne_sheila
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:12 am ((PST))

Hi all, Have been doing raw for a week now, chicken leg quarters and whole chickens cut in half. Main reason was for my allergic st. bernard - Ears are still inflamed and black gunk in one of her ears. Any suggestions? sheila

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: not working yet
Posted by: "cynthia iparraguirre" cyn7711@yahoo.com cyn7711
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:41 am ((PST))

----- Original Message ----
From: sheila schatzee@comporium.net

Hi all, Have been doing raw for a week now, Ears are still inflamed and black gunk in one of her ears. Any suggestions? sheila

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

.
Sheila,
Raw is not a miracle worker, you need to be patient, a week is not far enough for the new diet to take effect. Have you considered taking him/her to the vet for some antibiotics?

Cyn


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Messages in this topic (3)
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8c. Re: not working yet
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:28 am ((PST))

"Ears are still inflamed and black gunk in one of her ears. Any
suggestions?"

It's going to take up to 90 days to see the end results. What does the vet
say about his ears? and what do you use to keep them clean?
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: Question on RMB
Posted by: "jaygaughan" jaygaughan@yahoo.com jaygaughan
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:40 am ((PST))

Thank you Wendy and Bill. This being my first dog feeding raw I guess
I'm going a little over board.

I can't see Luthor's ribs now. I'm giving him 3lbs of food a day (10
percent). He's not fat but defiantly not skinny.
I cut back some this morning and he defiantly noticed. I gave him one
hole back split in half and about 1 ½ cups of green tripe.

I de-boned the thighs because I read not to feed him support bones
and was also told this by my breeder. He has been fed raw since
coming off of Mom. I've also read on many sites that people feed
their dogs chicken and turkey legs with no problems. I'm just being a
little precautious.

He's never had loose stool or gotten sick from eating something new.
Sucked down his first egg and had some Sashimi with me last night.
Lucky dog got fresh Tuna my buddy caught.

Wendy I'm surprised you never read the main RMB meal is the morning
meal for puppies. The reasoning for this is the puppies grow (like
everything else) when they sleep. Bone takes longer to digest. You
don't want their bodies working on digesting food when it should be
resting and growing during the night.

Thanks again for your help.

Jay

Messages in this topic (4)
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________________________________________________________________________

10. Okay, Wow!
Posted by: "Irene Clark" ireneclark@gmail.com irenespoms
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:28 am ((PST))

Hello,
I have almost finished my first week. I am feeding an 80 lb. Lab, a 27
lb. Whippet, a 9 lb. Pomeranian, 6.5 lb. Pom, and two 5 lb. Poms! I am
constantly nervous that I am feeding to much or too little. My 9 lb. is
probably pregnant on top of everything else, but I swear my Lab's skin
and Whippet's skin is improving! My Poms seem more robust!
Now I have a week to prepare to make more changes. Please tell me more
confidence will come!!!!
Irene

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11.1. New to raw
Posted by: "Sam Thurlow" ecflame52@yahoo.com ecflame52
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:28 am ((PST))

Thank you for the info. I have been reading for about a week now. I am going to start my Bernese Mountain Dog on raw. I am sure we will have more questions. Thanks again SAM

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Messages in this topic (52)
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________________________________________________________________________

12a. Organs to New Raw Eaters
Posted by: "Barbara" Barbararousey@yahoo.com barbararousey
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:28 am ((PST))

Hi All,

I'm new to the group, and I've been reading the posts with great
interest. Thank you to all of you for both your questions and
sharing your experiences.

My two aussies WERE on a grain and ground meat diet until
Thanksgiving, when I switched them to an RMB diet. So far they have
only had turkey and chicken. They're doing great. I love the
improvement in their breath!

I just received two elk hearts and livers from a hunter friend. Woo
hoo! I thought I'd introduce the dogs slowly to the idea, but then
I thought, "How would it look in nature?" So I gave it a try and
gave then each a slab of liver for breakfast this morning.

My male dog ate with his normal calm demeanor and seemed to enjoy it
very much. My female looked at me confused. "THIS is what you're
feeding me?" She didn't eat and followed me back into the house,
watching with great interest as I cut up the rest of the stuff to
freeze. I offered her small bits, which she only ate when the other
dog came back into the house.

My question is, should I try giving her small amounts with her
regular meals, or just let her go hungry for a bit and see if she'll
eat it later?

Question #2: Should I offer them a "bony meal" after feeding them
the heart? or with the heart? What sort of things would be
considered bony?

Barbara
and Zeke & Skittles

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

12b. Re: Organs to New Raw Eaters
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:02 am ((PST))

My male dog ate with his normal calm demeanor and seemed to enjoy it
very much. My female looked at me confused. "THIS is what you're
feeding me?" She didn't eat and followed me back into the house,
watching with great interest as I cut up the rest of the stuff to
freeze. I offered her small bits, which she only ate when the other
dog came back into the house.

My question is, should I try giving her small amounts with her
regular meals, or just let her go hungry for a bit and see if she'll
eat it later?

#### ahhh... the eternal 'liver' question... some dogs adore it, some abhor
it...some care for it on a rotating basis, some will only consume it frozen,
pureed, warmed in water, the list is endless.

Since it is an ESSENTIAL part of the diet, it is up to you to learn your
dogs and figure out what works best for your individual situation

That being said, you also want to do so without creating a spoiled dog or a
dog with an attitude. I feed liver either once a week as a huge slab, or
twice a week as a smaller chunk. I KNOW my dog, however, and he has been
eating this way for years so a huge slab doesn't create loose stools. Dogs
new to raw are best to start with very small portions, just to be safe and
not create digestive distress.

What I do when I feed liver, is set it on the floor first with the main
course being off to the side at his nose level. I point to the liver, then
gesture obviously to the main course saying to him that if he eats this, you
get that.. it only took one night for him to learn that once the liver was
gone, the main course was dumped in front of him within 30 seconds. That
being said, my dog is a bit of a brainiac... and VERY manipulative so I
manipulate him right back... hah!

I also personally always feed organs with a bony meal just so his poop is
firm but it's optional. Because he has so much fur and he HATES having a
messy poop, I cater to him and to myself for not having to clean him but I
must say, he does a great 'butt drag' ;-))

A bony meal could be a rack of ribs, a chicken or a half a chicken, a
rabbit..you get the idea.

Chia & Ricco

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. The Heart of the Matter
Posted by: "krystal_brr" rkbarr@hughes.net krystal_brr
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:27 pm ((PST))

I am a little confused about heart.

I understand that it is a muscle meat and not an organ, but is it OK to
feed a whole meal of heart?

My dogs are 65# and 90# and are doing great on raw. They really look
amazing! They have been eating raw for a couple of months now and have
been fine with whatever protein I add. They are Ridgebacks with short
hound coats, but they are so soft and shiny and such clean teeth! I am
just so thrilled I switched to raw!

Thanks
Krystal

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

13b. Re: The Heart of the Matter
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:48 pm ((PST))

> I understand that it is a muscle meat and not an organ, but is it OK
> to feed a whole meal of heart?

I feed whole meals of heart, but I know that some dogs can't handle too
much heart without getting really loose stool. Depending on how much
loose stools bother you, you might want to start with a meal of half a
heart before going for the whole thing.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (2)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12363

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Leg quarters question
From: A.
1b. Re: Leg quarters question
From: A.
1c. Re: Leg quarters question
From: ychinook
1d. Re: Leg quarters question
From: Yasuko herron

2a. Think in terms of candy.
From: mozookpr

3a. Re: Squirrels and Rabbits
From: becca1066

4a. pork chops??
From: Cdandp2@aol.com
4b. Re: pork chops??
From: Dave Teetz
4c. Re: pork chops??
From: carnesbill
4d. Re: pork chops??
From: Yasuko herron

5a. Having trouble eating RMBs
From: delcaste
5b. Re: Having trouble eating RMBs
From: Greta Hill

6a. Hogmaw - the 'other' white meat?
From: Deb
6b. Re: Hogmaw - the 'other' white meat?
From: Maria

7a. Re: Eggs and other extras
From: Yasuko herron

8a. veal sweetbreads...
From: woofwoofgrrl
8b. Re: veal sweetbreads...
From: Maria
8c. Re: veal sweetbreads...
From: borodeauxs
8d. Re: veal sweetbreads...
From: Eddie Scholten
8e. Re: veal sweetbreads...
From: m td

9. Elevated ALT (Liver) Levels
From: Sydney Morgan

10a. Re: New raw feeder with concerns about cleanliness
From: Michelle R
10b. Re: New raw feeder with concerns about cleanliness
From: bettathang

11. feeder wildlife
From: Michelle R

12a. Re: Broken puppy tooth
From: sltahoek9s

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Leg quarters question
Posted by: "A." ols@charter.net cesare.1920
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:53 pm ((PST))

Thank you, I will check out that link later this evening!

~Amanda

> I would suggest having a full 6 panel thyroid test run on your older
> girl....
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>

Messages in this topic (14)
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1b. Re: Leg quarters question
Posted by: "A." ols@charter.net cesare.1920
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:11 pm ((PST))

That is my problem I suppose, not remembering that they are dogs.

Thank you for the advice, I am also trying to read other posts when I
can find a few minutes and just read one you just posted about
forgetting the term RMB. I will keep that in mind as well :)

~Amanda

> Just remember that they are dogs. They don't chew or swallow like
> we do. Their teeth are made different than ours. Their jaws are
> made different than ours.
>
> Bill Carnes

Messages in this topic (14)
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1c. Re: Leg quarters question
Posted by: "ychinook" chinook.nr@tds.net ychinook
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:42 pm ((PST))

As a comparison:

I have a 6 year old 130 lb malamute that I feed whole chickens (mostly
store bought at less than $1.oo/lb).

Four months ago we also got a GR puppy (10 lbs at eight weeks) and her
first meal was a chicken thigh. She devoured meat and bone with her
tail wagging a mile a minute. By now (almost 7 months old) she weighs
60 lbs and is down to two feeding a day of a chicken quarter each
meal.

Of course they don't eat only chicken - several months ago I got a 600
lb boar they have also been working on, and sometimes I throw in beef.
Neither dog eats the larger bones of the boar so I throw in chicken
necks. They also get appropriate amounts of organs.

In the evening they get a treat of salmon oil and an egg. The GR
puppy eats shell and all, but the malamute leaves the shell.
Occasionally I splurge ($4.50/lb) and give them whole mackerel which
they both love.

Neither dog is overweight and they get a lot of exercise in the woods
around our rural home.

Hoping this finds you all "As fit as a butcher's dog"
Lee, Karen, Buddy Bear and Holly

PS: I always include pictures of them in private replies :-)

Messages in this topic (14)
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1d. Re: Leg quarters question
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:25 pm ((PST))

>I got a 600 lb boar they have also been working on,

Wow,that is a lot!I am not sure how much lb of meat in palette's freezer but 600lb seems very big amount!! Boar is.. a pig,right? How did you get the boar? From hunter friends?

> Neither dog eats the larger bones of the boar so I throw in chicken necks.

Are you buying bag of chicken neck ?? if you wanted to give some bones to their meal,you can give chicken feet,frog leg as well.

>The GR puppy eats shell and all, but the malamute leaves the shell.

Egg shell gives calcium to dogs but if you were feeding bone in diet,you don't need to give shell.If they eats shell,fine,if not,fine as well if you fed bone in diet.

yassy

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2a. Think in terms of candy.
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:12 pm ((PST))

They both still like apples and
> such, I know that dogs don't eat these in the wild but they really
> seem to like them so they will sometimes get a snack in the evening
of
> fruit.
>
> Any opinions on this? My Mastiffs are 5 years old and a little over a
> year old.
>
> ~Amanda

Do you eat Snickers or Reeses Cups? Probably. Maybe not daily, and
surely not a lot, I hope, but I bet you do. If you treat SMALL bites
of apple as candy for your dogs, I can't see the harm in it. It's not
poison, just not needed. But then, neither is chocolate (which, as you
know, your dog should never have) necessary for humans.

If it is enough to be a measurable percentage of the diet, it is
probably too much. Nor would I feed such items to any dog who is not
already eating a balanced diet of raw foods. (Gads, I fight this
battle with my mom every day: "NO treats, I want Foxy to be HUNGRY for
dinner...")

Answering from the gut, once again...

Wendy

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: Squirrels and Rabbits
Posted by: "becca1066" becca1066@yahoo.com becca1066
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:19 pm ((PST))

WILD rabbits can carry tuleremia, which can be transmitted to humans.
Handle WILD rabbits with gloves. Its OK for the dog to eat.

becca

Messages in this topic (7)
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4a. pork chops??
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:42 pm ((PST))

Sorry if I missed it, but did anyone respond to my query about pork chops,
bone in? My guy is 28 lbs and pretty experienced with raw...no front teeth,
though, so he doesn't rip. Pretty good at crunching bones.

Carol

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Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: pork chops??
Posted by: "Dave Teetz" dteetz@gmail.com dteetz
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:01 pm ((PST))

Carol,

I recall at one point reading that bones in chops or steaks are not good -
too sharp. I don't know if this was specifically for your post request.

Dave

On Dec 10, 2007 7:54 PM, <Cdandp2@aol.com> wrote:

> Sorry if I missed it, but did anyone respond to my query about pork
> chops,
> bone in? My guy is 28 lbs and pretty experienced with raw...no front
> teeth,
> though, so he doesn't rip. Pretty good at crunching bones.
>
> Carol
>
> .
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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4c. Re: pork chops??
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:10 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cdandp2@... wrote:
>
> My guy is 28 lbs and pretty experienced with raw...no
> front teeth,
> though, so he doesn't rip. Pretty good at crunching bones.

My Great Danes don't use their front teeth to eat with. They "chew"
with their back teeth.

The bones in pork chop have been cut with a saw and have sharp
edges. Not good to feed. Cut the meat off the bone and feed the
meat.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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4d. Re: pork chops??
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:11 pm ((PST))

I do not give pork chop bone to my dog.Those bone area too small.

if you wantedto get pork chop,you can buy whole loin anduse as boneless meat.

I once got the big 9-10lb weight whole loin from Giant in VA,and it was on sale with price 1.69 per pound.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Having trouble eating RMBs
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:42 pm ((PST))

I have a pug that won't/can't eat RMBs. I give him a goat leg or a lamb
leg and he chews and chews on it til the meat is a mush and he gets
tired and wants to come in. Yet the meat is still on the bone. I have
to get my knife and cut the meat off the bone and offer it to him which
he always takes from me. It takes him about an hour and a half to eat.

If I give him a hunk of meat, even when I ribbon it, he won't touch the
meat with his paws but shakes it and shakes it till pieces drop off. He
tries to eat it all at once and regurgitates about 5/6 times. He's not
a gulper like my other pug he seems to chew and chew and gulps. He's
never had a problem choking he's always able to swallow his food after
much chewing and regurgitation. Any thoughts are appreciated, please.

Silvina

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Having trouble eating RMBs
Posted by: "Greta Hill" GretaHill@aol.com sunstate23
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:01 pm ((PST))

I have a pug that won't/can't eat RMBs. I give him a goat leg or a
lamb leg and he chews and chews on it til the meat is a mush and he
gets tired and wants to come in. >>

I have a 70 pound dog that can't eat slimy or fatty meats. Her teeth
look fine, and she has strength in her jaws, but she simply can't eat
certain meats. For things like lamb or pork, I have to feed them half
frozen, then she does okay. If I feed them thawed, she chews and chews
but just kind of mushes the meat. With chicken, I have to remove most
of the skin. Otherwise, she's doing great and loves her raw food.

Greta

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Hogmaw - the 'other' white meat?
Posted by: "Deb" alabamdeb2@yahoo.com alabamdeb2
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:42 pm ((PST))

I found some "hogmaw" at my grocery store. I had no idea what it was
(other than pork), but thought it looked "organ-ish". I've been trying
to find organ meat other than liver, so I bought some. I looked it up
on the net when I got home and found out it is the lining of a pig's
stomach. Is this considered muscle meat, like chicken gizzard, or is
it considered organ meat?

Thanks,
Deb

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: Hogmaw - the 'other' white meat?
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:01 pm ((PST))

Since you already bought it go ahead and feed it but it is bleached and
has no nutritional value.

Maria
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Deb" <alabamdeb2@...> wrote:
>
> I found some "hogmaw" at my grocery store. I had no idea what it was
> (other than pork), but thought it looked "organ-ish". I've been
trying
> to find organ meat other than liver, so I bought some. I looked it
up
> on the net when I got home and found out it is the lining of a pig's
> stomach. Is this considered muscle meat, like chicken gizzard, or is
> it considered organ meat?
>
> Thanks,
> Deb
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: Eggs and other extras
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:01 pm ((PST))

>Tempting fate to what?

I think she meant it is like waiting for diarrhea.I interpreted that that way.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (8)
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8a. veal sweetbreads...
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:10 pm ((PST))

I found "veal sweetbreads" in the freezer at my grocery store - is a
sweetbread definitely pancreas or is it a possible range of things?
Is $7.99/lb a normal or outragous price for such an item?

Thanks!
Christine

Messages in this topic (5)
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8b. Re: veal sweetbreads...
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:11 pm ((PST))

Veal is very expencive. $7.99 isn't normal from what I'vve heard,
sweetbreads are thymus or pancreas.

Maria
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, woofwoofgrrl <cmc4lists1@...> wrote:
>
> I found "veal sweetbreads" in the freezer at my grocery store - is a
> sweetbread definitely pancreas or is it a possible range of things?
> Is $7.99/lb a normal or outragous price for such an item?
>
> Thanks!
> Christine
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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8c. Re: veal sweetbreads...
Posted by: "borodeauxs" Borodeauxs@googlemail.com borodeauxs
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:42 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Maria" <plava_93@...> wrote:
>
> Veal is very expencive. $7.99 isn't normal from what I'vve heard,
> sweetbreads are thymus or pancreas.
>
> Maria
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, woofwoofgrrl <cmc4lists1@> wrote:
> >
> > I found "veal sweetbreads" in the freezer at my grocery store - is
a
> > sweetbread definitely pancreas or is it a possible range of things?
> > Is $7.99/lb a normal or outragous price for such an item?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Christine
> >
>
Hi Maria/Christine,..Sweetbread is the testicles of an animal,..I use
a wholesale butchers for things like ribs,ox hearts,chicken wings for
pups,..and spotted these the first time I shopped there,..for less
then $1 per pack,..it was sliced through into about 5 slices,maybe the
thickness of steak,..round in shape like a poached egg,..I asked the
butcher what these were as I had never heard of them ,the reply was
that they were pigs testicles,..if the veal sweetbreads are $7.99 lb
you are paying for a delicacy,..for human consumption,..would
definately enquire about pig sweetbread and compare the prices,..you
should end up with a box full of sweetbreads for $7.99,..Best Wishes
Stephen www.Borodeauxs.com

Messages in this topic (5)
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8d. Re: veal sweetbreads...
Posted by: "Eddie Scholten" shirl-ed@hotmail.com shirley11964
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:32 am ((PST))

I do believe sweetbreads are testicles.


Shirley

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Messages in this topic (5)
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8e. Re: veal sweetbreads...
Posted by: "m td" mtd885@yahoo.com mtd885
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:32 am ((PST))

Sweetbreads as I know them are the Thymus gland not
the Testicles...mtd
--- borodeauxs <Borodeauxs@googlemail.com> wrote:

> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Maria"
> <plava_93@...> wrote:
> >
> > Veal is very expencive. $7.99 isn't normal from
> what I'vve heard,
> > sweetbreads are thymus or pancreas.
> >
> > Maria
> > --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, woofwoofgrrl
> <cmc4lists1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I found "veal sweetbreads" in the freezer at my
> grocery store - is
> a
> > > sweetbread definitely pancreas or is it a
> possible range of things?
> > > Is $7.99/lb a normal or outragous price for such
> an item?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > Christine
> > >
> >
> Hi Maria/Christine,..Sweetbread is the testicles of
> an animal,..I use
> a wholesale butchers for things like ribs,ox
> hearts,chicken wings for
> pups,..and spotted these the first time I shopped
> there,..for less
> then $1 per pack,..it was sliced through into about
> 5 slices,maybe the
> thickness of steak,..round in shape like a poached
> egg,..I asked the
> butcher what these were as I had never heard of them
> ,the reply was
> that they were pigs testicles,..if the veal
> sweetbreads are $7.99 lb
> you are paying for a delicacy,..for human
> consumption,..would
> definately enquire about pig sweetbread and compare
> the prices,..you
> should end up with a box full of sweetbreads for
> $7.99,..Best Wishes
> Stephen www.Borodeauxs.com

>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (5)
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9. Elevated ALT (Liver) Levels
Posted by: "Sydney Morgan" wowhavs@yahoo.com wowhavs
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:10 pm ((PST))

If anyone has any experience with elevated ALT (Liver) levels, would you
please e-mail me privately at sydshavs@gmail.com?

Sydney Morgan
WOW (Way Out West) Havanese
sydshavs@gmail.com
http://67.59.180.118
http://www.havaneserescue.com

Stress is caused by knowing
the right thing to do
and doing the wrong thing.

E-mail ALL Scanned w/PC-cillin

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Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: New raw feeder with concerns about cleanliness
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:12 pm ((PST))

My kids have shaved faces, but the hairless do have long furnishings on their head, ears ,neck, and feets..then of course puffs are full body fluffy. I have found meat wrapped around toenails before..YUK Not real common...but it does happen, so now we do after meal checks. I always sit with them and I keep a towel handy, half dry, half damp with warm water and we wipe "faces and hands" when done...my babies get lots of kissing and even if I were not a vegetarian, I would probably throw up if I ended up kissing on my babies only to have my lips hit leftovers. UGH!!!!!
As for the floors...I use the vinegar/water solution to clean up in general and after an inside meal.


Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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Messages in this topic (17)
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10b. Re: New raw feeder with concerns about cleanliness
Posted by: "bettathang" bettathang@yahoo.com bettathang
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:53 pm ((PST))

Michelle-
My littlest boy is a hairless crested! The other is a chocolate
lab. I'm a vegetarian too, and it has been quite an adjustment to
be preparing meat. He tends to get slimy legs from using his elbows
to hang onto the meat. Strange little guy!
-Heidi

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Michelle R <crested_dog8@...>
wrote:
>
> My kids have shaved faces, but the hairless do have long
furnishings on their head, ears ,neck, and feets..then of course
puffs are full body fluffy. I have found meat wrapped around
toenails before..YUK Not real common...but it does happen, so now we
do after meal checks. I always sit with them and I keep a towel
handy, half dry, half damp with warm water and we wipe "faces and
hands" when done...my babies get lots of kissing and even if I were
not a vegetarian, I would probably throw up if I ended up kissing on
my babies only to have my lips hit leftovers. UGH!!!!!
> As for the floors...I use the vinegar/water solution to clean up
in general and after an inside meal.

Messages in this topic (17)
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11. feeder wildlife
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:52 pm ((PST))

I have a list of various things the potential feeder wild critters can carry, if anyone would like me to post that, I can do this tomorrow maybe....
I am a wildlife rehabber with a state and federally lisenced agency and can just consult my list... but, off the top of my head raccoons were mentioned recently, that scares the stuff outta me, cuz they are a rabies vector species..no way in heck would I feed that to my kids, anymore than Id eat it myself..course...I AM a vegetarian, LOL
General rule of thumb ANY wild animal ALWAYS handle with gloves!

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

____________________________________________________________________________________
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12a. Re: Broken puppy tooth
Posted by: "sltahoek9s" crazy4k9@aol.com sltahoek9s
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:16 am ((PST))

- We have a 5-1/2 month old labrador who hasn't lost her canine teeth yet (when do these
normally pop out?). -
-can I wait until it comes out on it's own? Or should I take her to the vet?-

Hi Sonja,
Puppies normally get their adult canines in between 5 and 6th months so she should be close
to getting hers in. If she isn't showing any discomfort from the broken tooth, ie. lack of appetite or not chewing, then I would just give it some time. If it is wiggling already, then it
shouldn't be long. If she likes to play tug, that may help her expel the tooth more quickly.
My lab played tug with my GSD all the time and her puppy teeth would pop out right and left.
As for the vet, I find that it tends to bring on too many unnecessary questions because most
vets are looking for sickness instead of proclaiming health. Of course if she goes off her
food, can't eat or you see a change in behavior, those would be signs of distress and then a
vet visit would definitely be warranted.
Good Luck,

Tammy C

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