Feed Pets Raw Food: Aug 17, 2007

Friday, August 17, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11923

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Garlic and Dogs
From: mgitaville
1b. Re: Garlic and Dogs
From: Yasuko herron
1c. Re: Garlic and Dogs
From: ginny wilken
1d. ADMIN/Re: Garlic and Dogs
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: Pork liver question
From: Yasuko herron
2b. Re: Pork liver question
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: Once a day feeding and Frequent urination...anyone seen this???
From: jankopple
3b. Re: Once a day feeding and Frequent urination...anyone seen this???
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: Distributors
From: cmhausrath
4b. Re: Distributors
From: Pamela Picard

5. not gaining weight
From: MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com

6a. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: cmhausrath
6b. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: ginny wilken
6c. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: bloat
From: Linda Gower

8. 2-3% feeding amounts
From: redwinejoy

9a. chicken questions
From: morkydzgrl
9b. Re: chicken questions
From: Giselle

10a. meaning of RMB's
From: Ivette Casiano
10b. Re: meaning of RMB's
From: Giselle

11a. Re: What do you think
From: costrowski75
11b. Re: What do you think
From: costrowski75

12a. Re: raw & puppy development
From: ginny wilken

13.1. Re: new to raw feeding
From: Mick

14a. Re: pork neck bones
From: delcaste

Messages
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1a. Re: Garlic and Dogs
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:56 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:

> I know that Ginny has told me drop all I am doing including garlic
for flea. so,I may stop feeding garlic and see how she does without it.
>
> yassy
>

******Why did Ginny (if you read this Ginny please feel free to drop
in) tell you to drop the garlic for fleas as well? I feed it
throughout the summer - usually 1-2 cloves/week if I remember for
bullmastiff - to help with mosquitos. Does it work? Well, I can't be
sure but in the swampy summer weather here I figure it is worth the try.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (11)
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1b. Re: Garlic and Dogs
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:20 pm ((PDT))

>Thanks for the warning, but there's quite a body of evidence that indicates raw garlic fed >moderately may offer some health benefits and may as well be an effective flea deterrent

Hi,I forgot to add something to this topic so,allow me to post 2 times to this topic.

Garlic has been used for thousands of years for medical purpose;I read that its use start from 5000 years ago,out of the years,about 3000 years,chinese medecine used it.

Egyptian,Romen etc used garlic as healing properties.

I read,garlic is nice antibacterial properties.It promotes the white cell production so,it is good immune booster for dog especially with low immunity or with diabete by helping reduce blood sugar level.

What makes good about garlic is that, "Allicin" appeared to be active component in the root bulb(cloves) of garlic plant which trigger healing properties,and it is formed when allicin,sulfur containing amino acid comes contact with Enzyme allinase when raw garlic is chopped,crushed or chewed.

However, Garlic contains "thiosulphate",and if dog eat too much raw garlic,it cause hemolytic anemia.

If dog eats 50 cloves of garlic in one sitting, it is harmful,I read.

If anemia happens,you will see sympton ; vomiting,diarhhea,weakness,depression,lossof appetite in a few hours or few days.

That is why,I be careful not to give too much of Garlic and still get benefit from it.2 in 7 days a week may not enough to get benefit but still, my dog liked it and I was/am feeding garlic.

For human,garlic is great to reduce the risk of cardiac disease/cancer as well as improving blood pressure regulation,improving immune function,better digestion,prevent infection.

So, I tend to use in my cooking often not as much as too much though.

Yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (11)
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1c. Re: Garlic and Dogs
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:27 pm ((PDT))

On Aug 17, 2007, at 1:37 PM, mgitaville wrote:

>
> ******Why did Ginny (if you read this Ginny please feel free to drop
> in) tell you to drop the garlic for fleas as well? I feed it
> throughout the summer - usually 1-2 cloves/week if I remember for
> bullmastiff - to help with mosquitos. Does it work? Well, I can't be
> sure but in the swampy summer weather here I figure it is worth the
> try.
>
> Marguerita

Yassy was doing many things at once to combat fleas, after having
seen one small flea, I believe, on her dog. I was simply suggesting
that Palette may be healthier than she thinks, and that she could
test that by dropping all of the adjuncts and saving some effort and
money.

No matter what we do, there is no REASON for fleas other than
impaired health. To me, it's more important to understand that, fix
it and not just to constantly fight off signs of it, especially if
you're fighting them off with something so far out of the realm of
prototypically appropriate as garlic.

Nothing against garlic, you understand. It's one of the food groups,
as far as I'm concerned:)

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (11)
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1d. ADMIN/Re: Garlic and Dogs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:46 pm ((PDT))

Um, this topic has gone off into the weeds. Please take the discussion
to RawChat. Thanks.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (11)
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2a. Re: Pork liver question
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:57 pm ((PDT))

>Is pork liver as rich as beef liver?

Hi.I have heard that pork liver istorelated by dog better,but I don't feed big chunk. I stick to 5% liver,5% kidney the rule I set for myself.

If your dog can torelate better,then,maybe you can feed bigger but dog needs meat more than organ in quantity.

For Heart,you can feed as boneless meat;meaning..not organ category,so,you can feed big if yourdog can torelate big big chunk.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Pork liver question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:12 pm ((PDT))

"joanngongos" <jogongos@...> wrote:
>
my question is: Is
> pork liver as rich as beef liver? How much of it can I feed at a
time?
> It doesn't look as rich and so I thought maybe I could feed larger
> quantities.
*****
I can feed more pork liver at one time than I can beef liver but I
would not recommend feeding it freely until your dogs have had a chance
to get used to it. Pork hearts I feed whole to my retrievers, no
problem.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Once a day feeding and Frequent urination...anyone seen this???
Posted by: "jankopple" JKopple@dpka.com jankopple
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:19 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Shannon Parker <mrbatisse@...> wrote:
>

> Has anyone seen this in their dogs??? Do you think I should switch
back to twice a day feedings??? I'm considering it just to ease
her...we all know how uncomfortable it is to hold a full bladder, not
to mention the risk of bladder infections.
>
> My 5 yr old lab is on 1 meal a day and does have a long pee. He can
hold his pee all night but he does stand along time once we are out in
the morning. He also has long pees at most other times during the day,
meaning that he rarely pees what I would consider a normal amount. The
long pees started when I started feeding raw 4 months ago. It doesn't
seem to be related to one or two meals a day. I assumed it was the
added water in the raw food. He also drinks quite a bit. I remark this
tendency but so far I am not overly worried. Should I be?
Jan Kopple
jkopple@dpka.com>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email
the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Once a day feeding and Frequent urination...anyone seen this???
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:03 pm ((PDT))

Shannon Parker <mrbatisse@...> wrote:
This has only started with the once a day feeds....normally, she can
hold her bladder just fine from 10 pm until I walk her
> at 7.
>
> Has anyone seen this in their dogs??? Do you think I should
switch back to twice a day feedings??? I'm considering it just to
ease her...we all know how uncomfortable it is to hold a full
bladder, not to mention the risk of bladder infections.
*****
I have not seen this behavior as a result of feeding once a day (or
less). Not during the day, not over night. OTOH, my dogs rarely
have to hold it more than six hours during the day, and last walkies
are typically at 11 pm, with first walkies around dawn.

Have you monitored her drinking? Has it increased? Do you take her
out to pee after mealtime but before bed? Maybe you've unknowingly
reduced her potty visits as you've reduced meals. Did your switch
coincide with a heat wave? Anything else going on in her life?
That's what I'd be looking into, 'twere me.

You might want to switch back to twice a day to see if the issue
continues. Clearly, if it does feeding frequency is not the cause.

Please let us know what you find out.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: Distributors
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:19 pm ((PDT))

"costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> No need to clean out grocery stores. You can buy large quantities
(and
> the larger the quantity, the greater your negotiating space) from
> wholesalers and restaurant suppliers.

And if you need a quickie source, until relationships and pricing
structures with other suppliers are worked out, you can always call the
grocery store and ask them for case prices. I've found my local
grocers very easy to work with in terms of special orders and mega-
purchases. I'm sure my mega-purchases aren't what yours will be, but
this should still work in the short term.

You may even find that it works in the longer term -- I've found very
reasonable deals through local stores.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (7)
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4b. Re: Distributors
Posted by: "Pamela Picard" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:39 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Teuscher" <dteuscher@...> wrote:
> I have VERY large dogs and was hoping to buy in quantities as opposed to
> clearing out the grocery stores of whole chickens.
>
>
***

Google for "dallas raw feeders" or "dallas raw feeding." There may be
a buying co-op like we have in Austin and San Antonio. I found 'em on
the Internet.

Also identify any meat markets; you may be able to buy scraps as well
as neogitate a discount for bulk orders.

I buy a lot of meat from Slankers, in Waco. It is shipped overnight.

And Hare Today also ships.

Pamela Picard
www.pet-wellness-update.com

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Discuss rabies laws & reform with other pet owners
Join aimees_law-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Messages in this topic (7)
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5. not gaining weight
Posted by: "MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com" MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com mustbluvspaniels
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:23 pm ((PDT))

My puppy is a great eater and we are feeding him 2lbs a day, But he is not
gaining weight. Am I feeding enough? he weights 36lbs. But needs to gain I can
feel his spine. Lisa

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:25 pm ((PDT))

"Tracy" <tracy.ramey@...> wrote:

> Perhaps you might thank the animal for providing adequate food for
your
> dogs. Chris O
>
>
> Would you accept my gratitude if you were the animal being slaughtered
> for food? [:-/]

Eventually, if you wait long enough, we're all food for something else.

Please, if a suggestion doesn't work for you, disregard it. No need to
start a completely OT conversation with a remark that I, at least,
found pretty inflammatory.

-- sandy (who was a vegetarian for 12 years, and never will be again) &
griffin (never a vegetarian, and now a certified carnivore, thank you)

Messages in this topic (12)
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6b. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:15 pm ((PDT))

On Aug 17, 2007, at 12:41 PM, Tracy wrote:

> Would you accept my gratitude if you were the animal being slaughtered
> for food? [:-/]
> Tracy

I like to think that the animals, unspoiled by prideful notion of
their own importance in the scheme of things, can accept and
peacefully transition to the next plane of existence, no matter when
and why that transition occurs. Their morality is not ours, they
judge us not, nor any of their predators.

That said, my sense of my own place - which is, after all, morality -
allows me, nay, forces me, to accept their offerings, to acknowledge
that my own demise will be an offering as well, and to make these
transitions as peaceful and meaningful as I can.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (12)
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6c. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:17 pm ((PDT))

"Tracy" <tracy.ramey@...> wrote:
> Would you accept my gratitude if you were the animal being slaughtered
> for food? [:-/]
*****
What a bizarre question. Why would you--a vegan I assume--be
slaughtering me for food?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
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7a. Re: bloat
Posted by: "Linda Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:28 pm ((PDT))

Thank you all for your answers. I naively asked prior to scanning the archives. Spent my lunch looking at all that came up. Believe me, I'm not naive about bloat and its mechanics. I'm a vet tech and have been for 25+ years now. So, I've seen the aftermath of it a lot and read all the new things that come out about it -i.e. the Purdue study. Of course, none of the studies are going to mention raw feeding, so I thought I'd draw on the experience of this list - I've been impressed with the depth of knowledge I've seen and just wanted to tap into it, not stir anything up.

I can see some of you have come to this diet for just this reason. My Standard is a worrier and I can see him stressing himself into a bloat. So, as I'm learning and being able to do more, I'm changing what I can. Diet is one of those things and the original barf diet I tried included veggies, which was not working. Didn't know about the species appropriate diet at that point. He's seven and knock on wood, so far so good. Both parents are still kicking at advanced ages. But SP's are getting more and more prevalent for bloat and the unknown scares the heck out of me!

Thanks for your patience.

Linda G

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Messages in this topic (23)
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8. 2-3% feeding amounts
Posted by: "redwinejoy" redwine1@windstream.net redwinejoy
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:37 pm ((PDT))

OK, I have been so happy to see my Sheltie eat that I think I have been feeding too much. My
Sheltie (oversized 18" and 35 lbs.) should be getting 3/4 to 1 lb. if I figured correctly. I was
feeding a breast/wing or a leg/thigh morning and night. I have been doing this for 4 days. I
think I should cut back to 1/2 of that. I think I waS feeding more like 2 lbs. each day total.
He has been dribbling urine randomly and I am wondering if he might have too much
pressure on his bladder from being really full in his intestine. He has been pooping but not
quite normal yet. Joy R.

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9a. chicken questions
Posted by: "morkydzgrl" ShankMa4@aol.com morkydzgrl
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:29 pm ((PDT))

I have a chicken with the neck attached.

Should I take the neck off? Are chicken necks off limits?

Can I feed a leg alone, meaning ... not attchached to the thigh?

The chicken came with heart, liver, and another organ (what would that
other organ be?). Would I give my dog these organs during the week
that I feed this whole chicken?

Is it okay to cut the breast/wing area in half? I ask this because the
whole breast and wing are a bit too big for one meal for my 30 lb. dog.

This chicken has a lot of skin around the backside area ... you know
how there is extra skin and the legs get tucked into the skin ...
should I cut off that extra skin before feeding?

Can I give chicken for 2 weeks before trying another meat? Or is two
weeks too long?

Thank you.
Cindi

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: chicken questions
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:51 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Cindi!
Feeding necks attached to the whole bird is EXACTLY the way
they should be fed! Feeding a neck alone is not recommended, as they
are easily gulped down, and can cause choking in even small dogs.

You could cut the chicken in quarters and just let your dog eat half a
portion - trade the other half for a yummy treat and put it away in
the fridge until the next meal. Or you can cut the whole chicken into
smaller parts to feed.

That would be the gizzard. You can add the heart or gizzard in with
the bony drumstick meals, they are organs, but fed as muscle meat. The
liver you can freeze for later, or add a eensy, teensy bit to each meal.

You can trim visible fat and excess skin off for now, to minimize
possible loose stools in the beginning. Or, you can just feed what's
there, and adjust later, if you need to.

Sure, its recommended that you start slowly with one protein source
and then add another each week or so after the dog is doing well on
each new protein. Later on, after there are several proteins that he
tolerates well, you can feed multiple proteins in a week, or in a day,
or at each meal, if you want to and your dog tolerates it.

Keep us posted on your progress!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I have a chicken with the neck attached.
>
> Should I take the neck off? Are chicken necks off limits?
>
> Can I feed a leg alone, meaning ... not attached to the thigh?
>
> The chicken came with heart, liver, and another organ (what would that
> other organ be?). Would I give my dog these organs during the week
> that I feed this whole chicken?
>
> Is it okay to cut the breast/wing area in half? I ask this because the
> whole breast and wing are a bit too big for one meal for my 30 lb. dog.
>
> This chicken has a lot of skin around the backside area ... you know
> how there is extra skin and the legs get tucked into the skin ...
> should I cut off that extra skin before feeding?
>
> Can I give chicken for 2 weeks before trying another meat? Or is two
> weeks too long?
>
> Thank you.
> Cindi
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. meaning of RMB's
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

<<...I always try to clarify the meaning, especially if I don't know the
feeding history of the newbie requesting information...>>

Oh, ok, I won't use it any longer. I never used the B**F type of feeding. That's what I was first introduced to by my sister but I didn't think it was good. I couldn't believe that it was good to feed mostly bones. Just didn't sit well with me. So I held off and I'm glad I did because raw feeding 80%-10%-10% really sounds right to me and Nugget is doing so well.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

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Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: meaning of RMB's
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:13 pm ((PDT))

That's the ticket!!!! : )

I always feel like I'm writing a 'book' when answering even one
question. I want to give clear, easily understood information. I don't
want to offer too much information, but I don't want to skimp so that
there's a misunderstanding, either.

There's a balance to offering just the right amount of information and
support and I don't always know where it is.

*sigh, that balance is different for each person, I suspect.

TC
Giselle

> <<...I always try to clarify the meaning, especially if I don't know the
> feeding history of the newbie requesting information...>>
>
> Oh, ok, I won't use it any longer. I never used the B**F type of
feeding. That's what I was first introduced to by my sister but I
didn't think it was good. I couldn't believe that it was good to feed
mostly bones. Just didn't sit well with me. So I held off and I'm glad
I did because raw feeding 80%-10%-10% really sounds right to me and
Nugget is doing so well.
>
>
>
> Ivette Casiano
> "Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Re: What do you think
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:48 pm ((PDT))

"emdeefa" <mdevlin@...> wrote:
>
> Is it possible you meant the book called "Pet Food Nation" (ISBN:
> 0061455008)?
>
> i saw it on barnes and nobles website today:
> http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?
z=y&EAN=9780061455001&itm=1
*****
Well, that makes a LOT more sense! Thanks.
I read the publisher's blurb; sounds like another blahblah book that
recommends recipes back-engineered to the AAFCO standards based on the
recommendations of Nutrient Requirement of Dogs.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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11b. Re: What do you think
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:09 pm ((PDT))

"gevan1a" <gevans@...> wrote:
> Basically, some nut job chopping a load of veggies and a small cooked
> boneless, skiness chicken breast, saute it all in coconut oil and
> you've got pet food - or a chicken ceaser salad - I forget which.
*****
How cool!
When the dog refuses to eat such nonsense, the person can. No waste,
no fuss.

No way.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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12a. Re: raw & puppy development
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:07 pm ((PDT))

On Aug 17, 2007, at 11:23 AM, Tina Berry wrote:

> "Would you believe that undescended testicles are linked to vaccine
> damage?"
>

> . There are also homeopathic remedies (Ginny, do
> you know) for making them descend on their own prior to 6 months of
> age.

There are constitutional treatments that can make them descend later
than that as well. The remedy is the one that addresses the entire
case, the entire animal, just as always. There is chronic disease
causing this malfunction, and the animal must return to health before
it can be rectified. But this can be done quite quickly with
insightful prescribing.

Speak to your practitioner, and if they can't address it, find another.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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13.1. Re: new to raw feeding
Posted by: "Mick" cowsinsin@yahoo.com cowsinsin
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:40 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER TO TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

I live in Oshkosh,Wisconsin and have 3 dogs, 2 Rottweilers 105lbs and a Doberman 98lbs.

merril Woolf <merril@kentfieldwhippets.com> wrote: --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Mick <cowsinsin@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to start feeding my dogs raw food. Can anyone give me a list of foods to
use?
>
>

Personally, I use the following:

Chicken in any shape or form. (backs, whole fryers, giblets - whatver)
pork in any form
eggs raw
beef in any form
emu bits and pieces
ostrich bits and pieces
organ meat blend or buy individual organ meats and feed together or separate
cow tripe with lots of green still in it
whole goat or bits and pieces
lamp and goat heads
fish from the seafood supermarket - whole and unprocessed

You don't say where you are located so I can't point you at any one place to purchase
meat.
I buy from a distributor and he saves all manner of odd stuff I'll not mention in my list
since it's before breakfast and it could cause stomach upset for the reader.

Give us more info and we'll give you more ideas.

Merril

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

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14a. Re: pork neck bones
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:41 pm ((PDT))

But if you are worried, you can take a big file from the garage and
file the
> bone down some, or take the bone out, and feed it as a meat meal.

Hi Jeni, this is a dumb question but I bought pork necks for the pugs.
They were meaty and fairly large but when I got home I noticed how
SHARP the bones were. I don't think I'll be buying them anymore. My
questions is: can I get a hammer and crush the bones (especiall where
it's pointy) so the pugs can eat the necks or should I feed the necks
to the pittie pup (I don't think he's 40 pds yet, I have to weigh him)
along with some pork meat and a little organ? Chino, does great with
his food, bones/meat/organs/eggs/fish?.

Silvina

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11922

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: What do you think
From: costrowski75
1b. Re: What do you think
From: emdeefa
1c. Re: What do you think
From: gevan1a

2a. Newbie Oxtail Questions
From: morkydzgrl
2b. Re: Newbie Oxtail Questions
From: Yasuko herron

3.1. Re: new to raw feeding
From: merril Woolf
3.2. Re: new to raw feeding
From: Linda H. Gower
3.3. Re: new to raw feeding
From: merril Woolf

4a. Re: Distributors
From: Dawn Teuscher
4b. Re: Distributors
From: costrowski75
4c. Re: Distributors
From: Dawn Teuscher

5a. Re: raw & puppy development
From: ginny wilken
5b. Re: raw & puppy development
From: Tina Berry

6a. Re: First Meal
From: Yasuko herron
6b. Re: First Meal
From: Denise and David Spotila

7a. Re: New development: Food aggression
From: Giselle

8. Once a day feeding and Frequent urination...anyone seen this???
From: Shannon Parker

9a. Re: Garlic and Dogs
From: Yasuko herron

10a. Re: Lamb and Goat
From: Yasuko herron

11a. Bones bones
From: blechatlb@aol.com

12a. Re: bloat
From: Dawn Ruhl

13a. Pork liver question
From: joanngongos
13b. Re: Pork liver question
From: mgitaville

14a. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: Tracy

15. Losing Weight
From: blechatlb@aol.com

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: What do you think
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:55 am ((PDT))

"Taj" <bpskarma@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> There is a book out called Dog Food Nation I believe and I just
wanted to know if anyone has read this book and if so is it any good?
*****
I have found no Albert Shnowser and no "Dog Food Nation" except as a
single entry on one page in one blog and I don't consider that a
credible source. Offhand, I think it is one man's ramblings.

If you know this author and this book actually exist, please provide
more information.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: What do you think
Posted by: "emdeefa" mdevlin@aisle10.net emdeefa
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:13 am ((PDT))

Is it possible you meant the book called "Pet Food Nation" (ISBN:
0061455008)?

i saw it on barnes and nobles website today:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780061455001&itm=1

Looks like it was published last month.

- Mike

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "Taj" <bpskarma@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > There is a book out called Dog Food Nation I believe and I just
> wanted to know if anyone has read this book and if so is it any good?
> *****
> I have found no Albert Shnowser and no "Dog Food Nation" except as a
> single entry on one page in one blog and I don't consider that a
> credible source. Offhand, I think it is one man's ramblings.
>
> If you know this author and this book actually exist, please provide
> more information.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: What do you think
Posted by: "gevan1a" gevans@sycomtech.com gevan1a
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:10 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "emdeefa" <mdevlin@...> wrote:
>
> Is it possible you meant the book called "Pet Food Nation" (ISBN:
> 0061455008)?
>

They talked about this book on Entertainment Tonight yesterday -
Basically, some nut job chopping a load of veggies and a small cooked
boneless, skiness chicken breast, saute it all in coconut oil and
you've got pet food - or a chicken ceaser salad - I forget which.

-George

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Newbie Oxtail Questions
Posted by: "morkydzgrl" ShankMa4@aol.com morkydzgrl
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:59 am ((PDT))

I have bought a frozen Oxtail. It weighs about 2 lbs. My dog weighs
30 lbs.

What do I do with the Oxtail ... meaning, how do I feed it to him? Is
it a meal as a chicken quarter would be a meal?

Thanks, Cindi

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Newbie Oxtail Questions
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:58 am ((PDT))

>I have bought a frozen Oxtail. It weighs about 2 lbs.

Hi,Cindi. When I bought whole ox tail,it weiged around 4 lb.What you got are for soup and it is like 1 inch chunks in plastic pack?? Or half tail ?

My dog and your dog are about same weight,but,if it were small chunks of tail,don't feed it.The dog may swallow it whole chunck without any crunch.

What I have in freezer,some part is mostly bones (I think that part is end of tail) and some part is (near the butt I guess) looking meaty as much as short beef rib if you imagine.

I have to pull out and see and judge myself but, if the tail had about half pound of meat on it(her daily intake is 9 oz ,bit more than half pound),I say,meal,if not,I add more meat to the tail and make it to meal.If she crunch down bone quite good,chancesare,I will take bone away for later entertainment.

I think for big dog like Rottie,I see it as recreational because there is no way that it has enough meat they need to eat a day.

yassy

PS;I am planning to use either cow hooves (by the way,it was so huge! weigh 5lb and hooves are as big as my palm!)or tail on her BD meal/recreational(hooves ,recreational for sure) so,the tail is still sleeping in the freezer.

---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3.1. Re: new to raw feeding
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:01 am ((PDT))

>
> What kind of distributor is this? As in - what would I look under in the Yellow Pages? There
are several meat companies around, but not sure as to whether they're the best to deal with
or if there's something better.
>
> Linda G
>

I found mine on the Carnivore feed supplier list. However, he is more local for me but you'll
find a good number of suppliers who advertise on the carnivore list. Lots of folks who can
also tell you where they purchase in your area.

What state are you in?

Merril

Messages in this topic (50)
________________________________________________________________________

3.2. Re: new to raw feeding
Posted by: "Linda H. Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:04 pm ((PDT))

I'm in the Nashville TN area.

Linda G

> I found mine on the Carnivore feed supplier list. However, he is more local for me but you'll
> find a good number of suppliers who advertise on the carnivore list. Lots of folks who can
> also tell you where they purchase in your area.
>
> What state are you in?
>
> Merril
>
>
>

Linda H. Gower
Mid TN
Lance (SP) AX, AXJ, Delta Pet Partner
Chase, (MP) OA, AXJ
In memory of Cocoa (who started it all)'70-'89
Duncan, UD, NA, NAJ, TDI great little buddy '89-'04
Bonzai, CDX, MX, MXJ, Delta Pet Partner - best partner I could dream for '97-'04
RUN FOR FUN!!!!

Messages in this topic (50)
________________________________________________________________________

3.3. Re: new to raw feeding
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:53 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Linda H. Gower <pudeltime@...> wrote:
>
> I'm in the Nashville TN area.
>
> Linda G

Join the carnivore feed supplier on yahoo groups and ask if there are any suppliers in your
area. If the supplier themselves aren't on the list, folks who live near you could offer you
contacts that they use for their meat needs.

Merril

Messages in this topic (50)
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________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Distributors
Posted by: "Dawn Teuscher" dteuscher@tx.rr.com dawn_rescue
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:02 am ((PDT))

Generally speaking, Dallas has a ton of grocery stores,
supermarkets,
Restaurant suppliers, meat wholesalers, ethnic markets and even
hugely
Expensive upscale dogfood boutiques. These ought to be enough to
start

I have VERY large dogs and was hoping to buy in quantities as opposed to
clearing out the grocery stores of whole chickens.

Dawn T

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Distributors
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:12 am ((PDT))

"Dawn Teuscher" <dteuscher@...> wrote:
>> I have VERY large dogs and was hoping to buy in quantities as
opposed to
> clearing out the grocery stores of whole chickens.
*****
No need to clean out grocery stores. You can buy large quantities (and
the larger the quantity, the greater your negotiating space) from
wholesalers and restaurant suppliers.

But probably your best bet is the Carnivore-Supplier List, a sister
list also on Yahoo. If you include "Dallas" in the subject line and
you are specific about the meats you seek, you will get specific
responses.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: Distributors
Posted by: "Dawn Teuscher" dteuscher@tx.rr.com dawn_rescue
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:06 pm ((PDT))

Probably your best bet is the Carnivore-Supplier List, a sister
List also on Yahoo. If you include "Dallas" in the subject line
and

Thank You!!!

Dawn T

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: raw & puppy development
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:08 am ((PDT))

On Aug 16, 2007, at 11:41 PM, rottinluvr wrote:

> No problem with that here. My 13 week old Rotti's have both dropped.
>
> I really doubt this is diet related.
>
> Leanne and Casino

Would you believe that undescended testicles are linked to vaccine
damage?

Yup.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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5b. Re: raw & puppy development
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:04 pm ((PDT))

"Would you believe that undescended testicles are linked to vaccine damage?"

Absolutely!! I read studies on this and Steve Brown has it in his book as a
study.

I would contact the breeder definitely... and in gsds I have heard of the
right one descending later than the left and as late as 19 months but it is
very rare, the ring closes at 6 months for the testicle to pass through so I
would be taking the boy in for an ultrasound (after calling the breeder) to
see where the testicles are located... it may be no big deal and just
descending late, but I would be ultrasounding for them at 16 weeks to make
sure they are past the ring. There are also homeopathic remedies (Ginny, do
you know) for making them descend on their own prior to 6 months of age.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: First Meal
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:15 am ((PDT))

>Okay, tonight is the first raw feeding.

Hi,Patty.Kewl! That is the first big step you can make for your pooches. Glad to hear.

> I plan on feeding frozen chicken qtrs along with hearts & gizzards.

Good,but remember to defrost it before serving. Room temperature maybe good.
Sometimes,you need to entice your dog with good smell of food.

You can put the meat in zip bag and seal it and put the bag into warm water and bring the meat temp up to get it more smell for your dog may help.

And,since it is their first new food day,you may want to make it simple meal.

Sometimes,too much new food cause diarrhea/upset tummy.So,go steady and slow.

Generally,heart and gizzard are not something that gives dog diarhea or loose poo like liver but,since new food,you may want to hold off.I am not sure. I did not give them on the first week.

> I even have chicken feet for later in the week.
Well,my dog really really loves chicken feeet but feet only are not meal valued items.So,if you feed it as meal,maybe pair up with nice big boneless breast of chicken will be great.
You can feed it 1 as snack too if you choose.Or 2nd week or 3rd week from today, if you move up to Beef for example,you can feed nice hunk of roast with some chicken feet.

If you start with quaters, quaters have quite bone in it so,maybe not just giving quater whole week but try feeding chicken breast with rib later this week since rib bones are not as much bone in one breast compare to quaters.

But easiest way I have learnt here is buying the whole chicken and cut into portion of your dog,and give that portion each day and the dog gets to eat whole by the dog finish up the meat you got. Thatway,when dog eats some portion of birds,one portion get wing to eat,one portion has leg attached and they get to eat all parts of birds you can think of. that prevent swallowing whole as well.

other thing I can think of.. add 1 new thing one at a time so that you can find out what is causing problems.

Good luck!

Don't hover and sit back and relax and supervise your dogs eating.If you are relaxing,dog is more likely eat the meal relaxed mood.

And don't be surprised dog chew couple of times and swallows.That is how they eat:-P

yassy

---------------------------------
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

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Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: First Meal
Posted by: "Denise and David Spotila" brookside_casa@yahoo.com brookside_casa
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:58 am ((PDT))

Chicken quarters are great but I would hold the gizzards and hearts for at least a week. Best to start slow with just quarters and breasts to avoid digestive upset. I am sure others will have input also! Go for it!

David and Denise Spotila

Brookside Casa
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Messages in this topic (8)
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7a. Re: New development: Food aggression
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:26 am ((PDT))

Hi, Anndrea!
Behavioral issues are OT for rawfeeding, but are OK in
rawchat - you might want to repost there.

Offering your dog plenty of tiny sized special treats
whenever she is stressed is a good thing to do. The treats will help
her focus on something that makes her feel happier and change the
'upset' feelings she has.

Even if you are feeding her tiny bits of treats nonstop, it can help.
you shouldn't ask her to 'do' anything for the treats, just feed them
to her, one right after the other, as long as she is in the stressful
situation.

If she won't take treats, or is nipping when she takes them, she is
waaay too stressed - physically lead her farther away from the
situation, until she can take treats and is taking them more gently.
Giving her her own special place to eat her meals, during a quiet
time, away from anything that she can see or hear that will stress her
is important. You can start tossing tiny bits of treats into her dish
or eating place from several feet away. Over time, say, a few days to
a week or two, as she shows that she is more comfortable, you can
gradually move a step or two closer. After awhile, you can stand next
to her and drop treats, or feed them to her while she eats. This will
help her be less worried about her food.

Why couldn't her 'papa' take her with him when he walked away to
smoke? That would probably lessen her stress in that situation.

There are a lot of things you can do to help your dog to cope with
this lifestyle change, temporary though it may be. I'd be glad to
pursue other things you can do, either in raw chat or you could email
me privately.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I know she has a lot of stress and I am sure she is worried she could
> lose anything at anytime right now.
>
> I took her to see her "papa" (my husband) and she was so excited.
> Every time he walked away to smoke, she would go nuts, like she was
> never going to see him again. She got pretty worked up when we had to
> eventually leave to come home. I don't know that I will take her to
> see him again...I am not sure it would be a benefit or a backslide on
> her attachment issues. Though she would be alone a lot if I don't take
> her since I spend a lot of time with hubby during the day and no one
> is home during the day.
>
> Such a dilemma...
>
> Anyway, I know that was totally OT but I had to say it to someone. Ya
> know?
>
> Thanks again for your well wishing and thoughts for us. I did do a
> search before I posted for aggression and it really didn't come up
> with much. Maybe I searched wrong or something :-)
>
> anndrea
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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8. Once a day feeding and Frequent urination...anyone seen this???
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:59 am ((PDT))

Hi All,

I recently switched my 12 year old greyhound and 8 year old Dogo to once a day feedings...approx 1.5lb per day maintains their weight. I switched because 1. After reading through the archives, it seemed the natural way to feed. 2. It's soooo much easier than preparing 2 meals a day. Anyways, my question is this.... ever since the switch, my greyhound is producing HUGE amounts of urine. I usually take her out 3 hours past dinner (around 10pm) where she has a large pee, my hubby then takes her out around midnight, where she has a moderate pee and then by 7 am when I walk her, she's got to go so bad she tries the get the door open with her face! By the time we get outside she just let's loose where ever she is standing...grass, sidewalk or driveway! The Dogo seems fine btw...though he's so lazy that I think he'd hold it for 2 days if I let him. This has only started with the once a day feeds....normally, she can hold her bladder just fine from 10 pm until I walk her
at 7.

Has anyone seen this in their dogs??? Do you think I should switch back to twice a day feedings??? I'm considering it just to ease her...we all know how uncomfortable it is to hold a full bladder, not to mention the risk of bladder infections.

I welcome input and suggestions.

Thanks

Shannon

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: Garlic and Dogs
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:02 am ((PDT))

> If Yassy is feeding 1/2 small clove every other day to her Corgi, I'd wager you would need >to scale back for your Yorkie.

Hi, What I use as base was 1/2 small cloves of garlic to 1 small cloves of garlic 20lb per body weight as daily maximum intake.

I don't feed garlic every other day. 2 days out of 7 days a week.

I be very careful about garlic and that little may not do anything noticeable but, if I wanted to,I can feed 1/2 clove of garlic everyday as maximum feeding for garlic.

For 7lb dog, half clove of garlic maybe too much. Like chris said,1/3 daily max if you want to feed daily.

I use my trusty Microplane grator and grate the clove. I don't mice with knife because grating isso much easier. You can get hte grator at Bed Bath Beyond about 15 dollars.It works great with citrus zesting,cheese grating,nutmeg grating as well.One of my Fav tool.

I know that Ginny has told me drop all I am doing including garlic for flea. so,I may stop feeding garlic and see how she does without it.

yassy

---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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10a. Re: Lamb and Goat
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:05 am ((PDT))

> I had thought all lamb bones were okay, but I so rarely find it affordable that I couldn't >remember for sure that it was okay

Hi,Trish. I bought Lamb neck from shoppers.They are not trociously expensive.
You can add lamb boneless meat to it to make meal.

What I have fed..as lamb

Lamb Neck(add meat to it but my dog consumed all bone; corgi)
Lamb Rib (Added meat to it,my dog ate all without any problems)
@ I did not feed Lamb shank due I heard that bone sprinter very sharp even raw

Boneless Lamb
Lamb Tongue
Lamb heart

My dog had prob with Lamb (poo-wise) so,I ended up making combo meal whole time on lamb except Lamb heart meal,so,you may want to give small bits of lamb and see how your dog does..

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (6)
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11a. Bones bones
Posted by: "blechatlb@aol.com" blechatlb@aol.com blechatlb
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:44 pm ((PDT))

Gaynor,

Your dog does need to consume bone, not just gnaw on bone...feeding meat only with a bit of chewing on the bones is not enough. I may have misunderstood your post? It appeared that?she is not actually eating any bone...is that correct?

TracyB

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Messages in this topic (3)
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12a. Re: bloat
Posted by: "Dawn Ruhl" Dawnofthedanes@mac.com dawnofthedanes
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:45 pm ((PDT))

There have been studies where they tried everything to make groups of
dogs
bloat, none of which were successful. Raised bowls, lowered bowls,
dry kibble,
wet kibble.... etc.
What I do know from experience and it being prevalent in
my breed is... STRESS is the biggest contributor. Diet is second. Vax
are
third due to soft tissue damage from the adjuvants.
What most people don't realize is that even activities that our dogs
love are stressful to their bodies. When stressed, digestive systems go
awry. My first CH came from a family of dogs who all bloated before
they were 2 years of age. To this day his breeder tacks everything, but
feeds commercial dog food. My boy, being the only one raw fed his entire
life, didn't bloat until he was almost 8... but, we had just moved, &
I had
just bred him to my bitch. Both stressors, Big Time!
Therefore I can say by my experience is that the raw diet does help.
Considerably. It can't prevent it altogether, but I believe it does
help.
~;*;~ Dawn ~;*;~
I prefer to live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there
isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there
is.
http://www.dawnofthedanes.com

Linda H. Gower <pudeltime@...> wrote:
>
> My biggest fear with my Standard Poodle is bloat.
*****
I understand your concern: I worry about earthquakes an awful lot.
So what I do is learn what to do in case of, try not to live on an
active faultline, try not to dally on bridges, overpasses or in
tunnels, and kept abreast of research that may some day help us
predict with greater accuracy the next big one.

Bloat is not related to diet or it is. Bloat may or may not be
mitigated by raw food. It may or may not be related to meal size or
frequency. Bloat may or may not be exacerbated by grains. Feeding
dry kibble may or may not increase the chances. Drinking lots of
postprandial water may or may not cause bloat. Genetics might play a
role, vaccines may be the cause. Exercise before or after dining may
set it off. Raised dishes may reduce chances or increase them.
Depth of chest may be the determining factor. There is so little we
know--and so much that we speculate about--that it is almost
laughable to "know" that anything causes or prevents it.

It's my understanding that dry kibble may be a factor; likewise, that
raw food with its high water content may reduce chances. I think
genetics does play a role and that vaccines may increase the odds. I
think deep chests AS A BREED STANDARD are not necessarily implicated,
but rather chests DEEPER THAN THE BREED STANDARD may be.

Whether your particular poodles are more or less apt to bloat than
the average poodle, whether raw food does or does not affect bloat,
whether or not kibble does or does not increase the chances of bloat--
a species appropriate raw diet is the best thing to feed a dog, any
dog. Every dog. Always.

There are 19 posts in the archives directly related your subject
line, and I am sure there are dozens more with similar subject
lines. You might want to browse the old messages for more
information/discussion. Here's how to join Yahoogroups so you can
access the Rawfeeding message archives:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

Chris O

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Messages in this topic (22)
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13a. Pork liver question
Posted by: "joanngongos" jogongos@adelphia.net joanngongos
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:47 pm ((PDT))

I went to the slaughter house today, my usual contact who gives me beef
liver frozen in nice neat 2 lb pkgs. was not there. The man who was
said "How about some fresh pork liver, we just butchered today" I said
great. I now have a dozen pork livers and a dozen pork hearts.

I packaged them and they are in the freezer but my question is: Is
pork liver as rich as beef liver? How much of it can I feed at a time?
It doesn't look as rich and so I thought maybe I could feed larger
quantities.

thanks, JoAnn

Messages in this topic (2)
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13b. Re: Pork liver question
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:54 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "joanngongos" <jogongos@...> wrote:
Is
> pork liver as rich as beef liver? How much of it can I feed at a
time?
> It doesn't look as rich and so I thought maybe I could feed larger
> quantities.
>
> thanks, JoAnn
>

*****From personal experience with my dogs solely I give you the
answer that you are correct it is not as rich. I have one
bullmastiff that can be more sesitive to rich/meaty items without
enough bone (just ask me about the difference in stool between pork
shoulders and pork butts for info on this) but whereas I have to
watch how much beef liver I feed I find pork liver causes no problems.

Oh, and I find pork heart a nice change of pace for my boys from time
to time - they like the tongues too which I can get at our asian
market.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (2)
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14a. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "Tracy" tracy.ramey@sbcglobal.net veganmomma1
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:47 pm ((PDT))

Perhaps you might thank the animal for providing adequate food for your
dogs. Chris O

Would you accept my gratitude if you were the animal being slaughtered
for food? [:-/]
Tracy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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15. Losing Weight
Posted by: "blechatlb@aol.com" blechatlb@aol.com blechatlb
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:54 pm ((PDT))

Millie,

For one, I would be sure to add some variety (pork ribs, turkey legs, whole fish, goat, venison, beef). You are not removing the skin from the chicken, are you? Your dog definitely needs it for the added fat. Whole raw eggs?are good, too.

TracyB

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Messages in this topic (1)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11921

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Garlic and Dogs
From: ada
1b. Re: Garlic and Dogs
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: first feed
From: Linda H. Gower

3a. Re: Lamb and Goat
From: Andrea
3b. Re: Lamb and Goat
From: Trish Chapman

4a. Re: raw & puppy development
From: Michael Moore
4b. Re: raw & puppy development
From: merril Woolf
4c. Re: raw & puppy development
From: Alan & Andrea Southern

5.1. Re: new to raw feeding
From: merril Woolf
5.2. Re: new to raw feeding
From: Linda H. Gower

6a. Re: pork neck bones
From: lhmcmaken
6b. Re: pork neck bones
From: costrowski75

7a. bloat
From: Linda H. Gower
7b. Re: bloat
From: costrowski75
7c. Re: bloat
From: Denise and David Spotila

8a. Re: 25-35 # dogs
From: rosey031801

9a. Distributors
From: Dawn Teuscher
9b. Re: Distributors
From: costrowski75

10a. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: Tracy
10b. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: gevan1a
10c. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: Daisy Foxworth
10d. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: costrowski75

11a. First Meal
From: Patty Reid

12. new to raw with toy pup
From: Kay Sivel

13. What do you think
From: Taj

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Garlic and Dogs
Posted by: "ada" mom2moz@yahoo.com mom2moz
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:30 am ((PDT))

--- costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote:
> Thanks for the warning, but there's quite a body of
> evidence that
> indicates raw garlic fed moderately may offer some
> health benefits
> and may as well be an effective flea deterrent.
>
> The operant word of course is moderate. Yassy
> suggested I think half
> a clove every other day; I have seen (and follow)
> somewhat more
> assertive schedules but it's clear in all the
> variations that moderation is key.

Do we have a lb/garlic ratio? Say, for a 7lb Yorkie -
wouldn't a half a clove be too much?

ada
mo (silkie/shih-tzu/maltese mutt) & abbie (yorkie)

"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole." ~ Roger Caras

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Messages in this topic (6)
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1b. Re: Garlic and Dogs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:10 am ((PDT))

ada <mom2moz@...> wrote:
>> Do we have a lb/garlic ratio? Say, for a 7lb Yorkie -
> wouldn't a half a clove be too much?
*****
Might be. I don't know that "we" have a lb/garlic ratio (but probably
somebody does). If Yassy is feeding 1/2 small clove every other day to
her Corgi, I'd wager you would need to scale back for your Yorkie.

I'd say 1/3 of a small clove daily. Here is a link to some pretty
definitive feeding suggestions:
http://onibasu.com/archives/kn/116873.html?highlight=garlic

Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: first feed
Posted by: "Linda H. Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:31 am ((PDT))

> Keep it up. It's funny and it cracks me up, the whole chicken is more expensive than the parts, go figure?! I get mine at the base, and sometimes at costco, they are only .99 a pound there, whole. Happy Hunting!

Guess I'll be heading to Sam's Club this weekend!! Now to get the 10 year old deer head out of the freezer......... so I'll have room for dog chicken.

Linda G

Messages in this topic (8)
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________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Lamb and Goat
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:50 am ((PDT))

I often buy a 6 way cut lamb and my dogs can consume all of the bones
without a problem. Hopefully the "bones" you get have some amount of
meat on them, though. You can always add some extra meaty meat if the
bones are more bare than you would like.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Trish Chapman" <twotheark@...>
wrote:

> Someone recently said something about the legs
> are weight bearing and shouldn't be fed, but I thought that only
> applied to really big animals like cows, not little lambs.

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Lamb and Goat
Posted by: "Trish Chapman" twotheark@verizon.net twotheark
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:38 am ((PDT))

Thanks, Andrea. I had thought all lamb bones were okay, but I so rarely
find it affordable that I couldn't remember for sure that it was okay.
Whenever anything looks too boney, I do add more meat.

Trish

----- Original Message -----
>I often buy a 6 way cut lamb and my dogs can consume all of the bones
> without a problem. Hopefully the "bones" you get have some amount of
> meat on them, though. You can always add some extra meaty meat if the
> bones are more bare than you would like.
>
> Andrea

Messages in this topic (5)
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________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: raw & puppy development
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:52 am ((PDT))

>> Show quality. I'm starting to worry because his testicles haven't dropped yet.
Has anyone here who's been raising puppies on raw, noticed any correlation between the two?<<

Steve -- my Corgi puppies' (6 males in this litter) testicles were fully descended by the age of 8 wks. No difference from my previous litters. At 15 wks., I would be very worried. In my breed, a male puppy would not leave a breeder as "show quality" unless both were descended. Perhaps a call to the breeder is in order....

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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4b. Re: raw & puppy development
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:55 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Stevie Mathre <Rivendel@...> wrote:
>
> I have a question which may or may not be related to raw feeding.
>
> I have always had girls, and am now raising my first baby boy. He's a
> smooth collie, 15 weeks old now. Show quality. I'm starting to worry
> because his testicles haven't dropped yet.
> Has anyone here who's been raising puppies on raw, noticed any
> correlation between the two? I do know his growth has been
> wonderfully even - no spurts in the front & wait for his read to
> catch up, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance...
> Stevie & Kiernan the wonder pup
> & the rest of the raw gang

Dropping of testicles is hereditary and has very little to do with nutrition. His testicles
should have already been decended when you picked him up from the breeder and you
should contact your breeder about this to discuss his future. I have heard of testicles
dropping late in some dogs or some breeds, but generally, they are present at birth but
usually can't be seen until 3 -5 weeks in most breeds. (they are too small to see before
that usually).

A good diet is good for the puppy but it won't make them stay up or decend - so a phone
call to the breeder is in order.

Slow steady growth is good, btw.

Merril

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: raw & puppy development
Posted by: "Alan & Andrea Southern" wykham@sa.chariot.net.au seawyndriana
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:45 am ((PDT))

Our standard poodles were down at 6 weeks

Alan in Aldinga Beach South Australia
with the SP's Marli, Ella & Tango
http://www2.snapfish.com/photolibrary/owned_view=owned_az/t_=100236344
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/wykham/TangoSPups
http://users.chariot.net.au/~wykham

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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________________________________________________________________________

5.1. Re: new to raw feeding
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:02 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Mick <cowsinsin@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to start feeding my dogs raw food. Can anyone give me a list of foods to
use?
>
>

Personally, I use the following:

Chicken in any shape or form. (backs, whole fryers, giblets - whatver)
pork in any form
eggs raw
beef in any form
emu bits and pieces
ostrich bits and pieces
organ meat blend or buy individual organ meats and feed together or separate
cow tripe with lots of green still in it
whole goat or bits and pieces
lamp and goat heads
fish from the seafood supermarket - whole and unprocessed

You don't say where you are located so I can't point you at any one place to purchase
meat.
I buy from a distributor and he saves all manner of odd stuff I'll not mention in my list
since it's before breakfast and it could cause stomach upset for the reader.

Give us more info and we'll give you more ideas.

Merril

Messages in this topic (47)
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5.2. Re: new to raw feeding
Posted by: "Linda H. Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:40 am ((PDT))

> You don't say where you are located so I can't point you at any one place to purchase
> meat.
> I buy from a distributor and he saves all manner of odd stuff I'll not mention in my list
> since it's before breakfast and it could cause stomach upset for the reader.
>
> Give us more info and we'll give you more ideas.
>
> Merril

What kind of distributor is this? As in - what would I look under in the Yellow Pages? There are several meat companies around, but not sure as to whether they're the best to deal with or if there's something better.

Linda G

Messages in this topic (47)
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________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: pork neck bones
Posted by: "lhmcmaken" lhmcmaken@yahoo.com lhmcmaken
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:38 am ((PDT))

thanks everyone. I think I will forego the pork bones for the pups.
maybe offer them to the cats. I have two cats, one young and healthy,
the other older with most of his teeth pulled due to genetic problems
and has blocked twice. just getting him to eat enough for good pee
clumps has been tough. but with the support of this group, which is
wonderful, I want to move the cats to raw too.
take care
lynda
maude and franklin
and wellington and abby

Messages in this topic (20)
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6b. Re: pork neck bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:00 am ((PDT))

Morledzep@... wrote:
>> ****those cut pork neck bones are great for making soup stock..
>
> Catherine R.
*****
Yeah, that too.
I forgot.
Probably because in near-100 weather soup stock does not appear on the
radar. Thanks!
Chris

Messages in this topic (20)
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________________________________________________________________________

7a. bloat
Posted by: "Linda H. Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:53 am ((PDT))

My biggest fear with my Standard Poodle is bloat. This is one of the driving forces behind me starting back on raw with him. Am I right in that there is a lower incidence of bloat in raw fed dogs?

Fingers crossed,

Linda Gower

Messages in this topic (21)
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7b. Re: bloat
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:38 am ((PDT))

Chris O

Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: bloat
Posted by: "Denise and David Spotila" brookside_casa@yahoo.com brookside_casa
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:27 am ((PDT))

***EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE REMEMBER TO TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Great reply Chris! I agree we do not know enough about bloat to come to any conclusion! Some are tacking the stomach as a preventive measure! JMO All I can do is feed an appropriate raw diet, and be aware of my animals health and work with problems as they appear.

David and Denise Spotila

Brookside Casa
Standard Poodles
Great minds discuss ideas
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.
E Roosevelt

Messages in this topic (21)
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________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: 25-35 # dogs
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:04 am ((PDT))

I have one at 25lbs., an older border mix. He's been on raw meat for
over a year now.

Cheryl

> >
> > I sure could use some help with feeding 25- 35 # dogs.
> > Linda
> >
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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________________________________________________________________________

9a. Distributors
Posted by: "Dawn Teuscher" dteuscher@tx.rr.com dawn_rescue
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:05 am ((PDT))

I am in the Dallas area. Does anyone know of a distributor around here?

Dawn T.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: Distributors
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:46 am ((PDT))

"Dawn Teuscher" <dteuscher@...> wrote:
>
> I am in the Dallas area. Does anyone know of a distributor around
here?
*****
A distributor of what?

Generally speaking, Dallas has a ton of grocery stores, supermarkets,
restaurant suppliers, meat wholesalers, ethnic markets and even hugely
expensive upscale dogfood boutiques. These ought to be enough to start
with unless you are looking for something very special.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "Tracy" tracy.ramey@sbcglobal.net veganmomma1
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:39 am ((PDT))

I have no interest in preparing raw food, too gross
for me
-Kimber T

I am 100% vegan and I do it. I don't like it and I'm constantly
apologizing to the meat as I'm whacking it into meal-size portions, but
I do it because it is the best thing for my pets. Give it a try!

Tracy

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "gevan1a" gevans@sycomtech.com gevan1a
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:58 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Tracy" <tracy.ramey@...> wrote:
>
> I have no interest in preparing raw food, too gross
> for me
> -Kimber T

Maybe the cost will change your mind. Before I was educated I
considered Natures Variety - Until I realize it was going to cost me
almost $80 per week to feed my 3 whippets.

-George

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

10c. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:40 am ((PDT))

I have no interest in preparing raw food, too gross
> for me so this looked like a good alternative.
>
> -Kimber T
>

Kimber, there is nothing to prepare.

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

Daisy

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

10d. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:51 am ((PDT))

"Tracy" <tracy.ramey@...> wrote:
>> I am 100% vegan and I do it. I don't like it and I'm constantly
> apologizing to the meat as I'm whacking it into meal-size portions,
but
> I do it because it is the best thing for my pets. Give it a try!
*****
Perhaps you might thank the animal for providing adequate food for your
dogs. Apologies are useful up to a point, but honoring the eternal
relationship between prey and predator is, I think, way more in keeping
with nature.

Either way it's a fine thing, you feediing your dogs as they should be
fed.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. First Meal
Posted by: "Patty Reid" pattyannreidster@gmail.com pattyannreid
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:39 am ((PDT))

Okay, tonight is the first raw feeding. I have removed the kibble to ensure
they are good & hungry. I have 6 young adult standard poodles. Weight
ranging from 40-60 lbs. I plan on feeding frozen chicken qtrs along with
hearts & gizzards. The 40 lbers should get approx 1 lb qtrs while the
larger get 2 lb qtrs. Once/if they finish them off I will then give them
the hearts & gizzards. I even have chicken feet for later in the week.
AAACCCKKK!!
I'm excited thinking I'm doing the right thing but have to admit I'm nervous
also.
If there is anything anyone can see I should do differently, please comment
now.
Thanks for everything!

--
Patty
www.monetstandards.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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________________________________________________________________________

12. new to raw with toy pup
Posted by: "Kay Sivel" kaynine228@yahoo.com kaynine228
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:40 am ((PDT))

Hi All, my name is Kay Sivel. I am new to raw feeding, but have been
reading about it for a long time. I am here because my Chinese Crested
pup has chosen to eat raw food. Bless her baby heart, she did for me
what I was afraid to do on my own. We started with a bag of NV frozen
that she ate with vigor - as opposed to the disinterested approach to
any dry food she'd been fed in the past. So since I'm in - I'm in and
will really feed raw, not pre-made.I have been feeding chicken backs
with good results and am ready to move onward. What I'd like to know is
the approximate amount of food - I've seen her get thick and have been
able to slim her down, she's 5 months about 6.5 lbs and will have an
adult weight of 13-14 lbs. Thanks for the great list! Kay

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13. What do you think
Posted by: "Taj" bpskarma@yahoo.com bpskarma
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:41 am ((PDT))

Hello,
There is a book out called Dog Food Nation I believe and I just wanted to know if anyone has read this book and if so is it any good?

Taj and Karma
"Dogs are a special gift we must appreciate their unlimited love and attempt to return it"
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Messages in this topic (1)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11920

There are 5 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: raw & puppy development
From: rottinluvr
1b. Re: raw & puppy development
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

2a. Re: Garlic and Dogs
From: deep_ocean_of_sorrow

3a. Re: New development: Food aggression
From: Anndrea

4a. Re: how can i entice my dog to eat organs?
From: deep_ocean_of_sorrow

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: raw & puppy development
Posted by: "rottinluvr" rottinluv@cox.net rottinluvr
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:44 am ((PDT))

No problem with that here. My 13 week old Rotti's have both dropped.

I really doubt this is diet related.

Leanne and Casino

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Stevie Mathre <Rivendel@...> wrote:
>
> I have a question which may or may not be related to raw feeding.
>
> I have always had girls, and am now raising my first baby boy. He's
a
> smooth collie, 15 weeks old now. Show quality. I'm starting to
worry
> because his testicles haven't dropped yet.
> Has anyone here who's been raising puppies on raw, noticed any
> correlation between the two? I do know his growth has been
> wonderfully even - no spurts in the front & wait for his read to
> catch up, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance...
> Stevie & Kiernan the wonder pup
> & the rest of the raw gang
>
>
> Stevie Mathre CPDT
> Rivendel Collies
> Association of Pet Dog Trainers
> rivendel@...
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: raw & puppy development
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:46 am ((PDT))

I thought it was weird that Zeus hadn't dropped his at about 17 weeks, but they came in, he's a Great dane, so I don't know how it is for your breed, but I'm sure there are others here who will chime in, so be patient, they will tell you how there's are doing and did. For me, raw feeding has showed me that my dogs are growing at what I call a more natural rate, slower, not so fast for their bones, so they don't have to carry too much weight too fast, for their bodies. I know they are growing fine, and at a rate that is good for them. They are smaller than danes at the dog parks, but I'm ok with that, they will catch up, and mine are way healthier:) You can tell. They have more energy and look better:) Some dane puppies around here are already full grown at 6 months, and that's not healthy. So for me, this is great. I hope that helps. More people will chime in soon.
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Garlic and Dogs
Posted by: "deep_ocean_of_sorrow" deep_ocean_of_sorrow@yahoo.com deep_ocean_of_sorrow
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:45 am ((PDT))

i bought a supplement about 3 weeks or so ago that had some garlic in
it. and i have fed some garlic to my dog before, but i smelled the
garlic with his breath, so decided that a multi-supplement with garlic
in it might be good. (my dog needs some multi-supplements because of his
skin.. the supplement has some omega-fats in it.) and the supplement has
dehydrated garlic, so i think that that doesn't have that thiosulphate
thing in it? (i'm not sure.)

i don't think that garlic is bad at all unless, of course, you're
feeding raw garlic for like, every meal half a entire garlic or
something (not clove). :)

Kate
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "paperfibe" <CollageStudio@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi, thought I would post as I read on one of the other posts to use
> garlic to "favor".
> Garlic has a toxic ingredient thiosulphate for dogs and I would not
> recommend using garlic in any amounts. It can cause anything from
> minor upset tummy, diarrhea and vomiting.

Messages in this topic (4)
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________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: New development: Food aggression
Posted by: "Anndrea" anndreae@yahoo.com anndreae
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:47 am ((PDT))

Thank you for your reply.

I know she has a lot of stress and I am sure she is worried she could
lose anything at anytime right now.

I took her to see her "papa" (my husband) and she was so excited.
Every time he walked away to smoke, she would go nuts, like she was
never going to see him again. She got pretty worked up when we had to
eventually leave to come home. I don't know that I will take her to
see him again...I am not sure it would be a benefit or a backslide on
her attachment issues. Though she would be alone a lot if I don't take
her since I spend a lot of time with hubby during the day and no one
is home during the day.

Such a dilemma...

Anyway, I know that was totally OT but I had to say it to someone. Ya
know?

Thanks again for your well wishing and thoughts for us. I did do a
search before I posted for aggression and it really didn't come up
with much. Maybe I searched wrong or something :-)

anndrea

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: how can i entice my dog to eat organs?
Posted by: "deep_ocean_of_sorrow" deep_ocean_of_sorrow@yahoo.com deep_ocean_of_sorrow
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:47 am ((PDT))

I usually have the liver frozen, but in a bit of a big chunk (big chunk
for a 17lb dog, at least)

i used to thaw it with warm water, so i guess i'll try serving it with
it being a bit more frozen. i guess the smell or the squishy-thing of
the liver grosses my dog out too or something?

anyways, thank you everyone!

Kate
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "pelirojita" <kerrymurray7@...>
wrote:
>
> My 9 year-old Golden is quite finicky (though getting better after
> almost 7 weeks rawfeeding), while my lab mix usually eats anything and
> everything put in front of him. Both turned up their noses to chicken
> liver at room temperature. When I served it frozen, per advice on
> this list, the Golden ate the frozen chicken liver first and then
> moved on to the rest of her meal. I almost fell over in shock.

Messages in this topic (7)
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