[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11921

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Garlic and Dogs
From: ada
1b. Re: Garlic and Dogs
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: first feed
From: Linda H. Gower

3a. Re: Lamb and Goat
From: Andrea
3b. Re: Lamb and Goat
From: Trish Chapman

4a. Re: raw & puppy development
From: Michael Moore
4b. Re: raw & puppy development
From: merril Woolf
4c. Re: raw & puppy development
From: Alan & Andrea Southern

5.1. Re: new to raw feeding
From: merril Woolf
5.2. Re: new to raw feeding
From: Linda H. Gower

6a. Re: pork neck bones
From: lhmcmaken
6b. Re: pork neck bones
From: costrowski75

7a. bloat
From: Linda H. Gower
7b. Re: bloat
From: costrowski75
7c. Re: bloat
From: Denise and David Spotila

8a. Re: 25-35 # dogs
From: rosey031801

9a. Distributors
From: Dawn Teuscher
9b. Re: Distributors
From: costrowski75

10a. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: Tracy
10b. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: gevan1a
10c. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: Daisy Foxworth
10d. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: costrowski75

11a. First Meal
From: Patty Reid

12. new to raw with toy pup
From: Kay Sivel

13. What do you think
From: Taj

Messages
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1a. Re: Garlic and Dogs
Posted by: "ada" mom2moz@yahoo.com mom2moz
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:30 am ((PDT))

--- costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote:
> Thanks for the warning, but there's quite a body of
> evidence that
> indicates raw garlic fed moderately may offer some
> health benefits
> and may as well be an effective flea deterrent.
>
> The operant word of course is moderate. Yassy
> suggested I think half
> a clove every other day; I have seen (and follow)
> somewhat more
> assertive schedules but it's clear in all the
> variations that moderation is key.

Do we have a lb/garlic ratio? Say, for a 7lb Yorkie -
wouldn't a half a clove be too much?

ada
mo (silkie/shih-tzu/maltese mutt) & abbie (yorkie)

"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole." ~ Roger Caras

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Messages in this topic (6)
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1b. Re: Garlic and Dogs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:10 am ((PDT))

ada <mom2moz@...> wrote:
>> Do we have a lb/garlic ratio? Say, for a 7lb Yorkie -
> wouldn't a half a clove be too much?
*****
Might be. I don't know that "we" have a lb/garlic ratio (but probably
somebody does). If Yassy is feeding 1/2 small clove every other day to
her Corgi, I'd wager you would need to scale back for your Yorkie.

I'd say 1/3 of a small clove daily. Here is a link to some pretty
definitive feeding suggestions:
http://onibasu.com/archives/kn/116873.html?highlight=garlic

Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. Re: first feed
Posted by: "Linda H. Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:31 am ((PDT))

> Keep it up. It's funny and it cracks me up, the whole chicken is more expensive than the parts, go figure?! I get mine at the base, and sometimes at costco, they are only .99 a pound there, whole. Happy Hunting!

Guess I'll be heading to Sam's Club this weekend!! Now to get the 10 year old deer head out of the freezer......... so I'll have room for dog chicken.

Linda G

Linda H. Gower
Mid TN
Lance (SP) AX, AXJ, Delta Pet Partner
Chase, (MP) OA, AXJ
In memory of Cocoa (who started it all)'70-'89
Duncan, UD, NA, NAJ, TDI great little buddy '89-'04
Bonzai, CDX, MX, MXJ, Delta Pet Partner - best partner I could dream for '97-'04
RUN FOR FUN!!!!

Messages in this topic (8)
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3a. Re: Lamb and Goat
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:50 am ((PDT))

I often buy a 6 way cut lamb and my dogs can consume all of the bones
without a problem. Hopefully the "bones" you get have some amount of
meat on them, though. You can always add some extra meaty meat if the
bones are more bare than you would like.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Trish Chapman" <twotheark@...>
wrote:

> Someone recently said something about the legs
> are weight bearing and shouldn't be fed, but I thought that only
> applied to really big animals like cows, not little lambs.

Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Re: Lamb and Goat
Posted by: "Trish Chapman" twotheark@verizon.net twotheark
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:38 am ((PDT))

Thanks, Andrea. I had thought all lamb bones were okay, but I so rarely
find it affordable that I couldn't remember for sure that it was okay.
Whenever anything looks too boney, I do add more meat.

Trish

----- Original Message -----
>I often buy a 6 way cut lamb and my dogs can consume all of the bones
> without a problem. Hopefully the "bones" you get have some amount of
> meat on them, though. You can always add some extra meaty meat if the
> bones are more bare than you would like.
>
> Andrea

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: raw & puppy development
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:52 am ((PDT))

>> Show quality. I'm starting to worry because his testicles haven't dropped yet.
Has anyone here who's been raising puppies on raw, noticed any correlation between the two?<<

Steve -- my Corgi puppies' (6 males in this litter) testicles were fully descended by the age of 8 wks. No difference from my previous litters. At 15 wks., I would be very worried. In my breed, a male puppy would not leave a breeder as "show quality" unless both were descended. Perhaps a call to the breeder is in order....

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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4b. Re: raw & puppy development
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:55 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Stevie Mathre <Rivendel@...> wrote:
>
> I have a question which may or may not be related to raw feeding.
>
> I have always had girls, and am now raising my first baby boy. He's a
> smooth collie, 15 weeks old now. Show quality. I'm starting to worry
> because his testicles haven't dropped yet.
> Has anyone here who's been raising puppies on raw, noticed any
> correlation between the two? I do know his growth has been
> wonderfully even - no spurts in the front & wait for his read to
> catch up, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance...
> Stevie & Kiernan the wonder pup
> & the rest of the raw gang

Dropping of testicles is hereditary and has very little to do with nutrition. His testicles
should have already been decended when you picked him up from the breeder and you
should contact your breeder about this to discuss his future. I have heard of testicles
dropping late in some dogs or some breeds, but generally, they are present at birth but
usually can't be seen until 3 -5 weeks in most breeds. (they are too small to see before
that usually).

A good diet is good for the puppy but it won't make them stay up or decend - so a phone
call to the breeder is in order.

Slow steady growth is good, btw.

Merril

Messages in this topic (6)
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4c. Re: raw & puppy development
Posted by: "Alan & Andrea Southern" wykham@sa.chariot.net.au seawyndriana
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:45 am ((PDT))

Our standard poodles were down at 6 weeks

Alan in Aldinga Beach South Australia
with the SP's Marli, Ella & Tango
http://www2.snapfish.com/photolibrary/owned_view=owned_az/t_=100236344
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/wykham/TangoSPups
http://users.chariot.net.au/~wykham

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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5.1. Re: new to raw feeding
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:02 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Mick <cowsinsin@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to start feeding my dogs raw food. Can anyone give me a list of foods to
use?
>
>

Personally, I use the following:

Chicken in any shape or form. (backs, whole fryers, giblets - whatver)
pork in any form
eggs raw
beef in any form
emu bits and pieces
ostrich bits and pieces
organ meat blend or buy individual organ meats and feed together or separate
cow tripe with lots of green still in it
whole goat or bits and pieces
lamp and goat heads
fish from the seafood supermarket - whole and unprocessed

You don't say where you are located so I can't point you at any one place to purchase
meat.
I buy from a distributor and he saves all manner of odd stuff I'll not mention in my list
since it's before breakfast and it could cause stomach upset for the reader.

Give us more info and we'll give you more ideas.

Merril

Messages in this topic (47)
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5.2. Re: new to raw feeding
Posted by: "Linda H. Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:40 am ((PDT))

> You don't say where you are located so I can't point you at any one place to purchase
> meat.
> I buy from a distributor and he saves all manner of odd stuff I'll not mention in my list
> since it's before breakfast and it could cause stomach upset for the reader.
>
> Give us more info and we'll give you more ideas.
>
> Merril

What kind of distributor is this? As in - what would I look under in the Yellow Pages? There are several meat companies around, but not sure as to whether they're the best to deal with or if there's something better.

Linda G

Messages in this topic (47)
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6a. Re: pork neck bones
Posted by: "lhmcmaken" lhmcmaken@yahoo.com lhmcmaken
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:38 am ((PDT))

thanks everyone. I think I will forego the pork bones for the pups.
maybe offer them to the cats. I have two cats, one young and healthy,
the other older with most of his teeth pulled due to genetic problems
and has blocked twice. just getting him to eat enough for good pee
clumps has been tough. but with the support of this group, which is
wonderful, I want to move the cats to raw too.
take care
lynda
maude and franklin
and wellington and abby

Messages in this topic (20)
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6b. Re: pork neck bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:00 am ((PDT))

Morledzep@... wrote:
>> ****those cut pork neck bones are great for making soup stock..
>
> Catherine R.
*****
Yeah, that too.
I forgot.
Probably because in near-100 weather soup stock does not appear on the
radar. Thanks!
Chris

Messages in this topic (20)
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7a. bloat
Posted by: "Linda H. Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:53 am ((PDT))

My biggest fear with my Standard Poodle is bloat. This is one of the driving forces behind me starting back on raw with him. Am I right in that there is a lower incidence of bloat in raw fed dogs?

Fingers crossed,

Linda Gower

Linda H. Gower
Mid TN
Lance (SP) AX, AXJ, Delta Pet Partner
Chase, (MP) OA, AXJ
In memory of Cocoa (who started it all)'70-'89
Duncan, UD, NA, NAJ, TDI great little buddy '89-'04
Bonzai, CDX, MX, MXJ, Delta Pet Partner - best partner I could dream for '97-'04
RUN FOR FUN!!!!

Messages in this topic (21)
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7b. Re: bloat
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:38 am ((PDT))

Linda H. Gower <pudeltime@...> wrote:
>
> My biggest fear with my Standard Poodle is bloat.
*****
I understand your concern: I worry about earthquakes an awful lot.
So what I do is learn what to do in case of, try not to live on an
active faultline, try not to dally on bridges, overpasses or in
tunnels, and kept abreast of research that may some day help us
predict with greater accuracy the next big one.

Bloat is not related to diet or it is. Bloat may or may not be
mitigated by raw food. It may or may not be related to meal size or
frequency. Bloat may or may not be exacerbated by grains. Feeding
dry kibble may or may not increase the chances. Drinking lots of
postprandial water may or may not cause bloat. Genetics might play a
role, vaccines may be the cause. Exercise before or after dining may
set it off. Raised dishes may reduce chances or increase them.
Depth of chest may be the determining factor. There is so little we
know--and so much that we speculate about--that it is almost
laughable to "know" that anything causes or prevents it.

It's my understanding that dry kibble may be a factor; likewise, that
raw food with its high water content may reduce chances. I think
genetics does play a role and that vaccines may increase the odds. I
think deep chests AS A BREED STANDARD are not necessarily implicated,
but rather chests DEEPER THAN THE BREED STANDARD may be.

Whether your particular poodles are more or less apt to bloat than
the average poodle, whether raw food does or does not affect bloat,
whether or not kibble does or does not increase the chances of bloat--
a species appropriate raw diet is the best thing to feed a dog, any
dog. Every dog. Always.

There are 19 posts in the archives directly related your subject
line, and I am sure there are dozens more with similar subject
lines. You might want to browse the old messages for more
information/discussion. Here's how to join Yahoogroups so you can
access the Rawfeeding message archives:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

Chris O

Messages in this topic (21)
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7c. Re: bloat
Posted by: "Denise and David Spotila" brookside_casa@yahoo.com brookside_casa
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:27 am ((PDT))

***EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE REMEMBER TO TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Great reply Chris! I agree we do not know enough about bloat to come to any conclusion! Some are tacking the stomach as a preventive measure! JMO All I can do is feed an appropriate raw diet, and be aware of my animals health and work with problems as they appear.

David and Denise Spotila

Brookside Casa
Standard Poodles
Great minds discuss ideas
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.
E Roosevelt

Messages in this topic (21)
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8a. Re: 25-35 # dogs
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:04 am ((PDT))

I have one at 25lbs., an older border mix. He's been on raw meat for
over a year now.

Cheryl

> >
> > I sure could use some help with feeding 25- 35 # dogs.
> > Linda
> >
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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9a. Distributors
Posted by: "Dawn Teuscher" dteuscher@tx.rr.com dawn_rescue
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:05 am ((PDT))

I am in the Dallas area. Does anyone know of a distributor around here?

Dawn T.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: Distributors
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:46 am ((PDT))

"Dawn Teuscher" <dteuscher@...> wrote:
>
> I am in the Dallas area. Does anyone know of a distributor around
here?
*****
A distributor of what?

Generally speaking, Dallas has a ton of grocery stores, supermarkets,
restaurant suppliers, meat wholesalers, ethnic markets and even hugely
expensive upscale dogfood boutiques. These ought to be enough to start
with unless you are looking for something very special.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "Tracy" tracy.ramey@sbcglobal.net veganmomma1
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:39 am ((PDT))

I have no interest in preparing raw food, too gross
for me
-Kimber T

I am 100% vegan and I do it. I don't like it and I'm constantly
apologizing to the meat as I'm whacking it into meal-size portions, but
I do it because it is the best thing for my pets. Give it a try!

Tracy

Messages in this topic (8)
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10b. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "gevan1a" gevans@sycomtech.com gevan1a
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:58 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Tracy" <tracy.ramey@...> wrote:
>
> I have no interest in preparing raw food, too gross
> for me
> -Kimber T

Maybe the cost will change your mind. Before I was educated I
considered Natures Variety - Until I realize it was going to cost me
almost $80 per week to feed my 3 whippets.

-George

Messages in this topic (8)
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10c. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:40 am ((PDT))

I have no interest in preparing raw food, too gross
> for me so this looked like a good alternative.
>
> -Kimber T
>

Kimber, there is nothing to prepare.

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

Daisy

Messages in this topic (8)
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10d. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:51 am ((PDT))

"Tracy" <tracy.ramey@...> wrote:
>> I am 100% vegan and I do it. I don't like it and I'm constantly
> apologizing to the meat as I'm whacking it into meal-size portions,
but
> I do it because it is the best thing for my pets. Give it a try!
*****
Perhaps you might thank the animal for providing adequate food for your
dogs. Apologies are useful up to a point, but honoring the eternal
relationship between prey and predator is, I think, way more in keeping
with nature.

Either way it's a fine thing, you feediing your dogs as they should be
fed.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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11a. First Meal
Posted by: "Patty Reid" pattyannreidster@gmail.com pattyannreid
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:39 am ((PDT))

Okay, tonight is the first raw feeding. I have removed the kibble to ensure
they are good & hungry. I have 6 young adult standard poodles. Weight
ranging from 40-60 lbs. I plan on feeding frozen chicken qtrs along with
hearts & gizzards. The 40 lbers should get approx 1 lb qtrs while the
larger get 2 lb qtrs. Once/if they finish them off I will then give them
the hearts & gizzards. I even have chicken feet for later in the week.
AAACCCKKK!!
I'm excited thinking I'm doing the right thing but have to admit I'm nervous
also.
If there is anything anyone can see I should do differently, please comment
now.
Thanks for everything!

--
Patty
www.monetstandards.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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12. new to raw with toy pup
Posted by: "Kay Sivel" kaynine228@yahoo.com kaynine228
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:40 am ((PDT))

Hi All, my name is Kay Sivel. I am new to raw feeding, but have been
reading about it for a long time. I am here because my Chinese Crested
pup has chosen to eat raw food. Bless her baby heart, she did for me
what I was afraid to do on my own. We started with a bag of NV frozen
that she ate with vigor - as opposed to the disinterested approach to
any dry food she'd been fed in the past. So since I'm in - I'm in and
will really feed raw, not pre-made.I have been feeding chicken backs
with good results and am ready to move onward. What I'd like to know is
the approximate amount of food - I've seen her get thick and have been
able to slim her down, she's 5 months about 6.5 lbs and will have an
adult weight of 13-14 lbs. Thanks for the great list! Kay

Messages in this topic (1)
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13. What do you think
Posted by: "Taj" bpskarma@yahoo.com bpskarma
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:41 am ((PDT))

Hello,
There is a book out called Dog Food Nation I believe and I just wanted to know if anyone has read this book and if so is it any good?

Taj and Karma
"Dogs are a special gift we must appreciate their unlimited love and attempt to return it"
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Messages in this topic (1)
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