[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11915

There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Which bones/meat are best?
From: linoleum5017

2a. Re: vet says Yeay to rawfeeding
From: chaparraltrail

3.1. Re: veggies
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: adding fish to diet.........
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: whole chicken tonight??
From: costrowski75
5b. Re: whole chicken tonight??
From: Giselle

6a. Re: small raw previously frozen bones?
From: costrowski75
6b. Re: small raw previously frozen bones?
From: JOHN PFAFF

7a. Re: rawfeeding wild rabbit and squirrel....
From: costrowski75
7b. Re: rawfeeding wild rabbit and squirrel....
From: JOHN PFAFF

8.1. Re: Question
From: costrowski75

9a. not eating
From: schottscrazyzoo
9b. Re: not eating
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

10a. Re: how can i entice my dog to eat organs?
From: reptilerescueca

11a. Re: Jack/Chi Mix Acts Like He's Afraid Of New Foods!
From: ahomebasedbiz

Messages
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1a. Re: Which bones/meat are best?
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:49 pm ((PDT))

Welcome, Michelle!

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "harrynala" <michelle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I live in rural Eastern Europe and struggle to get a wide range of
> suitable RMBs, so just wanted to check that what I do feed is ok.
>
>my questions
> are this:
>
> 1) I've read here that beef ribs could wear the teeth down.
> They kill their beef here at 9 mths old (I know UK is normally
36mths) - should I ditch the ribs?

***Weight-bearing bones are the 'bones of contention,' not so much
the ribs, though the size of your dog matters.... how big is
he/she? Rib bones don't have much meat, so they would likely not
be 'ideal' on a regular basis, but not bad if you fed them alongside
some meatymeat, (the 'test' is whether you can see the bone under
the cushion of meat - if so, you probably want to add more meat to
the diet, and no more bone for a bit. The ratio recommended on this
list is 80% rawmeat, 10% bone, and 10% organs, (liver being half of
that, or 5%.)

> 2) I feed lambs heads whole, Is this a suitable RMB or is this not
> enough meat to bone ratio?

Good organ source, eyeballs & brains & all, (eeewwwww,) but pretty
bony, all in all. Sounds like a good treat now and then..... I'm
still trying to work up the nerve to try it!

> 3) Chicken is easy - they like it, and I could feed it much more,
> although I had previously understood it was not the best food
source as
> it has less of the required nutrients than other meats. Is this
true?

***Don't know the answer to that one. I thought it was a less-
desirable meat b/c of the poor/dirty raising conditions of the
birds....????
>
> 4) I have refrained from feeding pork as I had read it is
associated with pancreatitis and trichinosis, plus pigs are all
stall reared here as they like lots of pig fat, so it is quite
fatty. Do you think I am being overcautious?

*****In the US, trichinosis is not much of a threat these days, but
I don't know about abroad.... Others on this list are very expert
about how fat intake for a healthy dog is good, so I defer to them
on the pancreatitis question.
>
> I have yet to find the local abattoir

****I love that word! Do you mean butcher?? Whatever it is, I want
to use it here in the states! Picture me going into the meat co.,
and asking for the head 'abbatoir.' (please don't think I'm poking
fun; I am loving your lingo.)

>.... the majority of dogs here are fed bread and water, so you can
imagine the looks I get when I go through the whole "I want bones
with meat on", "Why?" "For my dog" "For your dog?" "Why? What's
wrong with bread?" .... I think you get the picture :D

*****Wow, my dog cannot stand bread, or grain of any kind - he
refused to eat ki***e b/c it had grain in it. He won't even eat a
chip or pretzel that falls to the floor. I feel very bad for the
canines in your area. I was reading a book on the US during the
French & Indian War, and the British were so bad off at one point
that they fed their horses leaves stripped from trees, since they
had no grain. One's(animal's) junk is another one's treasure.
Horses weren't too energetic, to say the least. Now I'm way OT.

Read the posts on this list, and I'm sure you'll find out lots and
lots. People are very helpful here.

Best wishes,
Lynne

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: vet says Yeay to rawfeeding
Posted by: "chaparraltrail" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:50 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Ivette Casiano <ivettecasiano@...>
wrote:
>
> I finally found a vet that says it's good to feed raw.

Fantastic! I am looking forward to a new vet as well. I found a vet
who offers both holistic and traditional approaches. She recommends
either raw or home cooked, yet does not "beat up" pet owners for
feeding kibble, either. She took time to talk with me on the phone,
and answer my questions. My dog is just fine, but I look forward to
scheduling a "well check" with her when I get back from my John Muir
Trail hike next month.

If my dog has a problem that might be food-related, I want to discuss
it freely with my vet, and not worry that she has a hidden agenda.

Lori

Messages in this topic (2)
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3.1. Re: veggies
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:08 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "schottscrazyzoo"
<schottscrazyzoo@...> wrote:
>
> MODERATORS NOTE;SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!!
>
>
> should i feed veggies juuiced or cut up brown rice and oats or not
> someone give me the answer so confused
*****
No veggies, no fruits, no grains.
A good species appropriate diet includes meat (flesh, skin, fat,
connective tissue), edible bone, and organs. That's it.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (52)
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4a. Re: adding fish to diet.........
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:10 pm ((PDT))

"mgn_moore" <mgn_moore@...> wrote:
>Say I only feed half a can to my 3
> year old boxer, do I need to mix anything with it, or would that be
> considered the whole meal?
*****
You certainly may feed it alone. There is no need to mix it with
anything. The fish would be the whole meal.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: whole chicken tonight??
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:27 pm ((PDT))

"sillypoodle2003" <angels_mom73@...> wrote:
if you havnt already,
> that a whole cornish hen is too small for a boxer. go for a half or
> even whole fryer chicken. what he doesnt eat, pick up and feed at the
> next meal.
*****
I'm all for big food, I think anyone who's been here for any length of
time will agree; and last night my adult dogs (including a 60lb'er) got
whole chickens for dinner so I'm fully comfortable with feeding such
criters. But I really don't see the big hooha about feeding a 60lb
boxer a whole game hen.

Maybe the game hens I buy (Tyson) are bigger than what you all have
access to--when I buy them (which is not often) I find 20oz-22oz birds
without difficulty. Since 20-22 ounces is a reasonable 2%+ of 60lb,
what's the big deal? Other than a. potential expense or b. the notion
of feeding bigger food, I don't see game hens as inappropriate.

I feed them to my 85lb Lab and although he's through one in no time
flat, he comes NO WHERE near choking on them. For a beginning dog they
are no less appropriate than rib-in chicken breasts and probably more
gratifying. They certainly have greater street cred than backs.

Are we somehow talking about two different birds, both of which are
called game hens?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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5b. Re: whole chicken tonight??
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:25 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Chris!
Unless they are butterflied, I do think that they offer more of an
opportunity for gulping whole, especially for an inexperienced newbie
dog of a larger size.
I don't object to the size of the hens, altho' I do think that the
ones you get are larger than I've seen - the ones in the markets I go
to are also not frozen.
I think chicken offers a better price than Game Hen, and why feed more
expensive chicken if you don't need to?
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I'm all for big food, I think anyone who's been here for any length of
> time will agree; and last night my adult dogs (including a 60lb'er) got
> whole chickens for dinner so I'm fully comfortable with feeding such
> critters. But I really don't see the big hooha about feeding a 60lb
> boxer a whole game hen.
>
> Maybe the game hens I buy (Tyson) are bigger than what you all have
> access to--when I buy them (which is not often) I find 20oz-22oz birds
> without difficulty. Since 20-22 ounces is a reasonable 2%+ of 60lb,
> what's the big deal? Other than a. potential expense or b. the notion
> of feeding bigger food, I don't see game hens as inappropriate.
>
> I feed them to my 85lb Lab and although he's through one in no time
> flat, he comes NO WHERE near choking on them. For a beginning dog they
> are no less appropriate than rib-in chicken breasts and probably more
> gratifying. They certainly have greater street cred than backs.
>
> Are we somehow talking about two different birds, both of which are
> called game hens?
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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6a. Re: small raw previously frozen bones?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:35 pm ((PDT))

"JOHN PFAFF" <johnpfaff@...> wrote:
>
> As in squirrel and rabbit for a large dog?>
> Please comment.
> Tks,
*****
You would not want to feed only the bones of these animals, no. You
would not likely have a problem feeding the whole critters though: fur,
guts, flesh, bones. After freezing, just in case.

One of my goldens used to catch and swallow gophers without
ramifications (even my very traditional vet said not to worry); bigger
small animals when fed fully clad strike me as small but appropriate
meals for a big dog.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. Re: small raw previously frozen bones?
Posted by: "JOHN PFAFF" johnpfaff@comcast.net rawfeednewbie
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:18 am ((PDT))

I am just trying to duplicate a natural diet but would use beef, lamb, eggs , etc. along with the whole rabbit or squirrel - probably take the head off to avoid the teeth and take the tail or most of the fur off to avoid barfing. Rabbits and squirrels are free while the other components are quite costly. Soooo>>>>feed the whole critter after freezing for a few and then thawing to feed?
JOHN PFAFF

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Re: rawfeeding wild rabbit and squirrel....
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:38 pm ((PDT))

"JOHN PFAFF" <johnpfaff@...> wrote:>
> How small can the bones be if raw?
*****
Fed individually, bones should not be small and should not be meatless.

Fed as part of a whole critter (as in "the whole thing"), small bones
are fine.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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7b. Re: rawfeeding wild rabbit and squirrel....
Posted by: "JOHN PFAFF" johnpfaff@comcast.net rawfeednewbie
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:11 am ((PDT))

Thank you for your response.
JOHN PFAFF
----- Original Message -----
From: costrowski75
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:38 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: rawfeeding wild rabbit and squirrel....

"JOHN PFAFF" <johnpfaff@...> wrote:>
> How small can the bones be if raw?
*****
Fed individually, bones should not be small and should not be meatless.

Fed as part of a whole critter (as in "the whole thing"), small bones
are fine.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

I am searching for a raw food supply that I can afford and the rabbit and squirrel will supplement the main diet for a large dog.
Chris O

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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8.1. Re: Question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:45 pm ((PDT))

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>> Just avoid Trout or Salmon from pacific north west ;CA to Alaska
line,due salmon poisoning possibility.
*****
The area of concern with Pacific Northwest salmonids is from southern
Alaska south to the mid-California coast, and east to the Cascades.
Salmon poisoning is not an issue with farmed salmon, not even those
farmed in British Columbia or Washington state.

Freezing wild salmonids from suspect sources will kill the parasite.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (145)
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9a. not eating
Posted by: "schottscrazyzoo" schottscrazyzoo@yahoo.com schottscrazyzoo
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:02 pm ((PDT))

I'm new to this and I have 7 dogs 1 of them is having no part of the
raw meat or bones he'll eat any veggie I put in front of him but no
meat what do I do ?? Schott

Messages in this topic (15)
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9b. Re: not eating
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:49 pm ((PDT))

Schott,
Well, for starters, this is a prey model diet, so take the veggies away, no veggies on this diet. If it is eating the veggies, it doesn't think it needs what you are giving it, it is trying to train you on how to feed it, and that isn't the way you want to do things. You are the big dog in the family there, so Keep trying, when the dog gets hungry, it will eat. Leave the food out for 10 minutes and then take it away until feeding time the next day. Eventually it will eat. Make sure you aren't leaving any other treats out, cat food, snacks of any kinds, honey who sneaks food to them, that kind of thing. My husband thought the dogs were starving, so he would sneak them food. They weren't starving, just teaching him how to feed them. (I am the ONLY one in the house who feeds our dogs now) It sometimes takes a few days to get them started, especially if they didn't start on the raw diet from puppyhood. So give it some time, and don't worry, they
really will come around. Keep them separate, so you know who is eating, and who isn't, then in a few days, maybe try something different, like slicing up the chicken, adding garlic to it, or parm. cheese, to give it some stink. There are alot of ways to make the chicken more palitable to them, but try just letting them get the hang of it first, that usually works best. And they really can go a few days, it's ok, you'll see, they will get hungry, they always do, but you have to stop the other stuff first. Good luck, and keep us posted, and ask more questions, that's what this site is for.
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (15)
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10a. Re: how can i entice my dog to eat organs?
Posted by: "reptilerescueca" reptilerescueca@verizon.net mommyhen44
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:48 pm ((PDT))

I have one dog that totally refuses to eat liver too...
Instead of giving it to him as a meal or part of a meal I spread it
thin on a baking sheet and dehydrate it in the oven to give as treats.
He loves it this way and drools when he sees the "treat bag" in
anticipation of a piece of dehydrated liver.
You can also buy an inexpensive counter top dehydrater to use for
dehydrating liver, lungs, heart or other organs. Harbor Freight
frequently has one on sale for about $29, it was in this weeks ads and
you can order off their website.
Have Fun
Sheryl, Jasper SD retired, Sir Jacob SDIT wonderpuppy
>
>
>
> well for now, we only have beef liver. and when i give him beef liver,
> he doesn't eat them! (he only eats the other muscle meats i give him
> with the liver.)
>
> i have to cut them up in smaller pieces and then put a bit of (low
fat)
> milk in to have him eat any. (he likes milk a lot.)
>
> how can i have my dog eat the organs as well? is it because he doesn't
> like the smell/taste or something? should i try different organs?
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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11a. Re: Jack/Chi Mix Acts Like He's Afraid Of New Foods!
Posted by: "ahomebasedbiz" workathomefirms@aol.com ahomebasedbiz
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:09 am ((PDT))

He likes Cornish Game Hens, Beef tongue,livers (only will eat them
cooked), Various parts of chicken such as quarters/breasts,stew beef,
pork chops/roasts/shoulder, pig tails,pig feet,heart from different
animals,kidney. That's just an example of the things that I feed him.
Most of the things are from the local grocery store. As far as him
acting confused when I say that I mean that after I put the food down
and walk away so that he can eat he just stares at the food and is
usually sitting at the door waiting to be let out of the laundry room.
He only does this with really new stuff. I have been trying to get him
on to whole prey so that he will eat the same things as my other
dogs,but I haven't had any success.He won't eat chicken with the
feathers on it or rabbit that's not skinned and gutted. That's why I
just accept what he will eat. I would like for him to be on a more
varied diet though,but I think he's off to a pretty good start.

Genell

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Genell,
>
> It might help if you give more specific info such as exactly what
> you've tried for a few days and what the response has been. What
foods
> DOES he like? What does he do that makes you think he's confused or
> afraid?
>
> Laurie

Messages in this topic (3)
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