[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11909

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Deer meat
From: Tina Berry

2a. Re: Quantity to feed?
From: Andrea

3a. Re: BONE
From: mgitaville
3b. Re: BONE
From: rosey031801
3c. Re: BONE
From: Casey Post

4a. Need help!!
From: mgn_moore
4b. Re: Need help!!
From: Laurie Swanson
4c. Re: Need help!!
From: Nathalie Poulin

5a. TOO lean of meals?
From: Denise
5b. Re: TOO lean of meals?
From: Tina Berry
5c. Re: TOO lean of meals?
From: Denise

6a. Re: Nibbling on grazing animals faeces?
From: Maggie Smith
6b. Re: Nibbling on grazing animals faeces?
From: Nathalie Poulin

7a. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
From: lmclaen

8a. Re: weight loss
From: natgs

9a. Re: guilt and anger
From: Michael Moore
9b. Re: guilt and anger
From: Tina Berry

10. New Here - Looking to start feeding a raw diet to my yorkie.
From: kalina82

11a. What are beef "finger ribs?" Yes or No
From: Pamela Picard
11b. Re: What are beef "finger ribs?" Yes or No
From: Casey Post

12a. MOTHER
From: Denise
12b. Re: MOTHER
From: Sonja
12c. Re: MOTHER
From: mousegirls

13a. lamb neck bones
From: Sue

14. Bones From Ram
From: Chrissy

Messages
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1a. Re: Deer meat
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:08 pm ((PDT))

Hi Tracy, I just finished feeding my pack for 9 months 100% deer meat and
some deer bones. Now we're on whole chickens as I'm out of deer until
hunting season starts. IMO it is the healthiest thing to feed them if
available (any wild game, deer, turkey, elk, antelope, etc.) Lucky you to
have scored!!! You can feed all parts as often as you want (organs weekly
or small amounts daily) but no leg bones (these are teeth breakers) but mine
devour the rib cages, hips and necks.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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2a. Re: Quantity to feed?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:09 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "harrynala" <michelle@...> wrote:
> I have gone a few days with giving her ALOT more, and she eats it
> all, looks like a weeble for a while then promptly throws up!

Ahh, yes, Geiger has been known to have eyes bigger than his stomach
as well. He gets excited about some kind of meal and tries to eat
the whole thing which doesn't work out well for him. After a couple
of times he learned where his stopping point is. I have a very
high "ick" threshold so if he eats too much and kicks some back out
it goes into a baggie for next time.

> With her still only being 8 months old, I had understood that it
> was unwise to feed too much as their tums are still quite small, or
> does that only apply to really young pups?

From what I can tell, splitting the meals for pups is done so their
bowels can digest things properly. At about six months Geiger
started eating a day's worth of food at once without ill effects, so
I stopped offering him the second meal. If your girl can digest the
food without getting loose stools or returning to sender, she should
be fine to eat once a day at 8mo. However, if she upchucks at the
prospect of eating a whole day's worth in one sitting, it's best to
stick with two meals for now.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: BONE
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:10 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "abooot99" <abooot99@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have been feeding my dog raw since May or June of this year and
> recently for the past few weeks has been refusing alot of his meals
> including chicken which he ate well at first. He now wants nothing to
> do with chicken and so given that, I am having a hard time getting
> bone into him. He doesnt love turkey either. I did at the beginning
> purchase bravo ground lamb with bone and he does eat that but I dont
> feed it every meal. As is he doesnt eat right away the food I do give
> him.
... What do you think?
> Amanda
>

*****I think this sounds more behavorial, but b/c bone is certainly an
issue I would suggest checking his teeth. Do they all look as they
should....no cracks, chips, etc? I would start here before moving to
the next step.
Marguerita

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: BONE
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:38 pm ((PDT))

My dog was very picky at first too. He didn't seem to "like" it. I had
to season it and sometimes even sear the boneless meat to enhance the
flavor. After he gets the hang of it you will not have to do any of
this. I had to get tough, even though my dog is underwieght, I had to
pick it up after 20 mins and not offer anything else for a few hours.
Finaly I got to where I offered it twice a day and if he didn't eat
it , oh well. Now he eats almost anything I give him. It is ok to feed
boneless for a while till he gets used to it. Don't wait too long to
get tough. He will benefit from it in the long run. Good luck. Oh my
dog didn't like fish either, now he will eat canned fish once in a
while. He is fine. We can't be perfect. Any meat is better than
kibble!!!
Cheryl

Messages in this topic (4)
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3c. Re: BONE
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:55 pm ((PDT))

> I have been feeding my dog raw since May or June of this year and
> recently for the past few weeks has been refusing alot of his meals
> including chicken which he ate well at first. <snip> He does like eggs and
> canned
> mackeral, sardines, salmon.....what do I do. He is getting his annual
> vet exam with fecal and urinalyisis on friday... What do you think?
**************

Amanda,

Well, not knowing his age (possible hormonal issue?), I would have the vet
look at things like oral health (if he's got a bad tooth or any kind of
pain, it'll make him reluctant to eat), ears (we had one member whose dog
stopped eating - turned out the dog had a very deep ear infection that was
causing pain with any kind of chewing), and nose ( I had a cat with a sinus
infection once - he stopped eating because he couldn't smell anything that
wasn't doctored up with canned fish or something similarly stinky).

Always rule out a medical issue before you start thinking that it's
behavioral!

Casey

Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Need help!!
Posted by: "mgn_moore" mgn_moore@yahoo.com mgn_moore
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:14 pm ((PDT))

Hi all! I am a newbie and I am trying to research the raw diet and am
seriously considering switching. My 3 year old boxer bitch has terrible
allergies and I am spending loads of money on allergy serums and "high
quality" kibble that the vet recommends. Someone suggested the raw diet
to me and thinks that my girl may be allergic to yeast. I have read
through several websites and have taken pages of notes but I still have
questions.
1. When feeding a chicken wing, feed it to her whole? And how many
before she gets sick?
2. Am I correct in reading that you blend vegetables?
3. After blending veggies, is it okay to mix with meat?

Any suggestions would be fabulous!!

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: Need help!!
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:43 pm ((PDT))

Hi there,

You'll want bigger pieces than wings for your Boxer--wings can be
gulped whole. Try chicken quarters, halves, or even a whole bird
(you can feed part, remove it, and feed the rest the next day).
Shoot for 2-3% of your dog's ideal weight per day (if your dog weighs
50 lbs., that's 1 to 1.5 lbs./day) and adjust as necessary for
under/overweight, activity level, etc. Avoid meat that's been
enhanced/injected w/saline/broth, etc.--that can aggravate allergies.

You don't need veggies and since your dog has allergy-type issues,
I'd recommend avoiding them, in order to simplify the diet and reduce
potential problems (my dog's yeasty ears cleared up when I got rid of
the veggies).

Search the archives for more newbie info as well as allergies.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mgn_moore" <mgn_moore@...> wrote:
My 3 year old boxer bitch has terrible
> allergies

> 1. When feeding a chicken wing, feed it to her whole? And how many
> before she gets sick?
> 2. Am I correct in reading that you blend vegetables?
> 3. After blending veggies, is it okay to mix with meat?

Messages in this topic (3)
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4c. Re: Need help!!
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:15 pm ((PDT))

I don't know where you got your research from, but it's actually even simpler than that.
Wings by themselves are way too bony for a 3 year old boxer bitch. It would be better to feed her an entire chicken. Let her eat as much as she can and then put it in the fridge until next meal.
Most people start with chicken because it is the most easily digested meat. Once she gets the hang of it, you can add in some pork or beef (one at a time at first) to make sure that she is digesting it properly.
Dogs are carnivores, they don't need veggies. Some people give their dogs veggies as treats but it doesn't comprise the majority of their daily food intake.
Raw prey model is awesome because you can just grab a pork roast and toss it to the dog. No blending, mashing, cooking, or mixing.
Also, from many of the posts that I've read here (you should check the archives) a lot of the people who have dogs with yeast problems almost always seem to go away when they get rid of the veggies.

Also, the BEST site to take a look at is

www.rawfed.com/myths
it will really help you figure stuff out.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

Nathalie

mgn_moore <mgn_moore@yahoo.com> wrote:
1. When feeding a chicken wing, feed it to her whole? And how many
before she gets sick?
2. Am I correct in reading that you blend vegetables?
3. After blending veggies, is it okay to mix with meat?

Any suggestions would be fabulous!!

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Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. TOO lean of meals?
Posted by: "Denise" DeniseAndZac@gmail.com puresurrender
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:36 pm ((PDT))

Could I be giving my dog TOO lean of meals... so that he's losing weight on
his raw?????

Denise
--
~ Delight thyself in the Lord and He shall give you the desires of your
heart ~

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Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: TOO lean of meals?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:00 pm ((PDT))

"Could I be giving my dog TOO lean of meals... so that he's losing weight on
his raw?????"

Increase his meal size. Mine had 9 months of lean venison (very little fat)
- mine weigh 80-95 lbs and eat approximately 1.5 - 2 lbs of venison daily
when I had venison - now that we are on chicken until hunting season, I had
to cut back on volume (chicken is fattier) so they get 1- 1.5 daily now; and
the weather has been hot so we're only doing about 30 minutes of exercise in
the evenings when it is cool. So it depends on amount of exercise too
because some dogs will burn more calories and therefore need more food.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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5c. Re: TOO lean of meals?
Posted by: "Denise" DeniseAndZac@gmail.com puresurrender
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:14 pm ((PDT))

thanks. He self regulates.. and just wont' eat a whole lot.

denise

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6a. Re: Nibbling on grazing animals faeces?
Posted by: "Maggie Smith" redkeds@comcast.net redkeds1
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:37 pm ((PDT))

Michelle,

I don't know about other animal's feces - but I had a lab mix that
loved cat poo. My vet told me that cat poo can bring on a
particular type of worms and my lab had to be de-wormed twice
because of his habit. I was able to break him of it eventually.

I personally would not want my dogs to eat any kind of feces,
whether it was good for them or not, just my .02 cents.

Maggie, Rufus and Oliver

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "harrynala" <michelle@...> wrote:
>
> So, this may seem a bit of a strange question...
>
> I'm an expat living in a very rural Eastern European village,
where
> everyone lives self-sufficient and most of the animals wander
freely
> along the dirt track streets of the village.
>
> It is all very Monty Python, VERY free range and quite nice
really -
> everyones dogs also roam free and are all friends too.
>
> Anyway... as a result there is ALOT of goat, sheep, cow and horse
poo
> here and there, and my dogs seem to find it quite tasty!
>
> My husband thinks it's gross and stops them from eating it,
whereas I
> have tended to take the view that if they think they need it, let
> them eat it :D
>
> So, my question, is this ok? is it normal? does it mean their
diet
> is deficient in something? are there any negatives to them eating
> it? etc etc!!
>
> BTW - I feed RMB, probably a bit too much bone at the moment and
> probably not enough offal (however am addressing this since
joining
> this group).
>
> Many thanks in advance
> Michelle
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. Re: Nibbling on grazing animals faeces?
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:13 pm ((PDT))

That's pretty strange because my vet told me that cat pooh is like granola bars for dogs...(not that any of us would feed out dogs granola bars).
I thought it was a strange analogy but I was never told that it could cause worms. Good to know now, because I'm pretty sure my dog eats the cat pooh from time to time.

Nathalie

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7a. Re: My dog is gaining weight but doesn't need to – help!
Posted by: "lmclaen" lmclaen@yahoo.com lmclaen
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:55 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
I really recommend you feed once a day or less. Use occasional no-
food days so that you can give her occasional big food days to clean
her teeth and gums and provide some all around exercise and fun.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Chris for all your advice :) - Laeny

Messages in this topic (10)
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8a. Re: weight loss
Posted by: "natgs" natgs@yahoo.com natgs
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:55 pm ((PDT))

Doni,

I would definitely avoid mixing kibble and raw to make sure that they
don't clash in your girls' system. She may be not eating to regulate
whatever is wrong with her now. My dog skipped a meal on occasion when
he felt sick (which was usually accompanied by diarrhea). He also
doesn't eat for about an hour after exercise. I leave the food out and
he gets to it eventually. So my advice would be to stick with raw,
just regulate the amount/frequency/consistency of poops to make sure
everything is digested properly, and the weight will be back to
normal. I would also give her more than the recommended 2-3% of ideal
weight.

In addition, I would stick with probiotics for now. I haven't heard
anything about the 'good' bacteria from yogurt/kefir not surviving in
the dogs' stomachs. I'll need to investigate further. I suppose there
is no harm though. If you are concerned about that, just stick with
the powdered stuff that can be added to meals. I know that there are
people on this list who don't support using probiotics. They
(probiotics) helped me out and I keep them on hand. So you decide for
yourself.

There was another comment/question about chicken broth. I give it to
my boy if he's having digestive issues (i.e., diarrhea). I usually add
chunks of raw chicken. It's easy to digest, plus helps rehydrate him
from diarrhea.

Natalya

> Natalya,
> Thanks for the info. On Sat night/SUnday she refused RAW, so I gave
> her some kibble on Sun and she ate, but then had the diarrhea.
> Monday she ate ground beef and devoured it!! and no diarrhea. So
> maybe it was me not giving RAW enough of a chance and then giving her
> the kibble that made her have the diarrhea. I have probiotics that I
> am giving her over the food.
> So will a dog eventually eat RAW if I refuse to feed her kibble???
> She was just soo thin.
> Thanks, Doni
>

Messages in this topic (14)
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9a. Re: guilt and anger
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:56 pm ((PDT))

>>BTW, did any of you go through a period of guilt and anger with
yourself for feeding your dogs kibble? I am so ticked off at myself
to think of all the years that I have been "killing" my little guys
out of ignorance.<<

Robyn -- absolutely did!! And then, I got over it -- by telling myself that I did the best that knew "back then," and now I know better and do better.
In my case, this also applies to dogs I had back when I vaccinated, etc., who were fed ki**ble for generations!

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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9b. Re: guilt and anger
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:32 pm ((PDT))

"BTW, did any of you go through a period of guilt and anger with yourself
for feeding your dogs kibble? I am so ticked off at myself to think of all
the years that I have been "killing" my little guys out of ignorance"

Oh yes - and then you go on a qwest of why did my dog die of cancer, etc....
which led me down the road of raw feeding, vax free, chemical free...
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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10. New Here - Looking to start feeding a raw diet to my yorkie.
Posted by: "kalina82" kalina82@yahoo.com kalina82
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:56 pm ((PDT))

Hi

I have a 1 year old 4lb yorkie named Morgan. Currently I am feeding
nature's variety venison medallions, which she loves. Gobbles it up
way faster then when she was eating kibble. After reading some posts
here I can clearly see that you recommend stopping all types of
commercial diets and start feeding raw meaty bones. I'm just worried
about giving her bones because she is so small and i have no concept
about how much to feed her and how big the bones need to be so she
won't choke on them. I have no doubt in my mind that she will dive
right in and eat anything i give her. I was going to start with
chicken leg quarters but i'm even wondering if those will be too big.
Should i choose drumsticks instead? Also i realize chicken alone
isn't a good diet to keep her on and that she needs more variety. I
don't know what other meats and bones are appropriate size for her. I
would also like to be able to buy it at the supermarket if possible.
I figure whole fish would be easy but i don't know which types of fish
are good for her. And can i get organ's at the supermarket???

I'm just so nervous about it. I would really appreciate it if other
yorkie owners could tell me what they feed their yorkies and how much.

Thanks so much for any information.

Kellie

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11a. What are beef "finger ribs?" Yes or No
Posted by: "Pamela Picard" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:57 pm ((PDT))

My partner found a good buy on "beef finger ribs." I don't know what
they are. Yes or no to feed my standard poodle? TIA

Pamela Picard
www.pet-wellness-update.com

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11b. Re: What are beef "finger ribs?" Yes or No
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:01 pm ((PDT))

> My partner found a good buy on "beef finger ribs." I don't know what
> they are. Yes or no to feed my standard poodle? TIA

No. Too small, choking hazard.

Casey

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12a. MOTHER
Posted by: "Denise" DeniseAndZac@gmail.com puresurrender
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:58 pm ((PDT))

Once again.. my know it all mother tells me how to do it.

I gave my boy a pork picnic roast. Mom just about lost it saying how bad
pork is for the body.... I told her he's not human... She said it's still
bad for him.

Like she would know??

Is it???

Denise
--
~ Delight thyself in the Lord and He shall give you the desires of your
heart ~

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12b. Re: MOTHER
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:13 pm ((PDT))

Pork is fine unless your religion tells you otherwise!!!!

Sonja

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12c. Re: MOTHER
Posted by: "mousegirls" mousegirls@gmail.com ladysown
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:14 pm ((PDT))

Sounds like your mother genuinely cares about her "grand-dog's" health,
and wants to be assured that feeding him raw pork will be okay. It also
sounds like you could not definitively state that it was perfectly okay
for him. Which would make a mom nervous, for you and the dog.

You might want to tell her that you get your pork from reputable people
and that pork is not infected with all those pork diseases anymore...as
long as it's north american pork it is just fine. Back it up with some
research. she'll be happier and so will you. :)

OR tell her that the pork has been frozen hard for three weeks which is
the recommendation for pork that isn't cooked and that freezing it kills
the bugs in it. easy peasy. :)

annette
http://ladysown.blogspot.com/
http://rileysowner.livejournal.com/
http://vellengaviews.blogspot.com/

"What a man is alone on his knees before God, that he is, and no more".-Robert Murray M'Cheyne
"I believe that prayer is the measure of the man, spiritually, in a way that nothing else is, so that how we pray is as important a question as we can ever face"- J.I. Packer

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13a. lamb neck bones
Posted by: "Sue" fordogs@ptd.net agiledogs2000
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:06 pm ((PDT))

Still new to raw feeding at this point and I was able to get some lamb
neck bones, I asked for them whole but when I picked them up they were
cut in half. I fed them to my dogs, my older dog (9 yrs) ate most of
it, the younger dog (1 yr) took much longer. I eventually took it away
from him and some of the bone from the older dog also. My concern was
the size of these bones, they were a little scary for me and my dogs
seemed to be taking a long, loud, crunchy time eating them. I was
afraid of damaging their teeth. I've read on this list that lamb bones
are ok to feed but I guess still being a novice, I didn't trust it. Am
I being too paranoid? I also bought beef rib bones with xtra meat and
I know you have to be careful with beef ribs and after seeing the lamb
bones I'm worried about even trying those. I still haven't really
figured this whole feeding process out and I guess I'm making myself a
little crazy. Could use some advise please.
Thanks,
Sue & the Aussies

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14. Bones From Ram
Posted by: "Chrissy" hylesrayburn@sbcglobal.net tresuregarden
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:07 pm ((PDT))

Ok.. So I have decided to do the deed and butcher the mean ram. I know weight bearing bones in large livestock are bad but what about the weight bearing bones in an animal that weighs about 250 lbs? I am going to do this myself sence it is well over $100 to have the butcher come out and do it. I need to know about the bones that can not be used, I want to use as much as possable.

Thanks
Chrissy

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