[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11899

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: loose stool and vomits?
From: cmhausrath

2a. Re: Poo Problems!
From: cmhausrath
2b. Re: Poo Problems!
From: wubbles_hannah

3a. Re: Pig Feet/Andrea
From: cmhausrath
3b. Re: Pig Feet/Andrea
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
From: cmhausrath
4b. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
From: lizwehrli
4c. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
From: carnesbill
4d. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
From: Nathalie Poulin
4e. Rawfeeding Recipes
From: h h
4f. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
From: Shirley

5a. Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: ohboyx3
5b. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: costrowski75
5c. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: Laurie Swanson
5d. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: Nathalie Poulin
5e. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: ohboyx3
5f. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: ohboyx3
5g. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
From: ohboyx3

6a. raw and kibble mix
From: Ivette Casiano
6b. Re: raw and kibble mix
From: Nathalie Poulin
6c. Re: raw and kibble mix
From: Karen Swanay

7. Goat Meat?
From: briargarden07

8. Question about RAW feedings
From: Brandi Bryant

9. Alternative Tx for allergies?
From: Laurie

10a. Re: Any dogs 10+ years on raw?
From: Dawn Ruhl

Messages
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1a. Re: loose stool and vomits?
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:54 am ((PDT))

"deep_ocean_of_sorrow" <deep_ocean_of_sorrow@...> wrote:

> my dog is recently having vomits in the mornings (before his
> breakfast... so i think its something from his dinner)
>
> and having really loose stools...
<snip>
> i don't know whats wrong, please help!

First: take a deep breath.

Dogs are not burdened by our human judgments about being "sick" or
about tossing back up something that's not agreeing with their
stomach. Chances are -- if your dog is acting normally -- he's not
upset about this. YOU being upset about it doesn't do either of you
any good, either. Chances are also that there's nothing
really "wrong," here, just his digestive system adjusting to his new
diet and to his expectations of mealtime.

Someone's already pointed out that if you regularly feed at one set
time, your dog will get used to that and will get geared up to eat AT
that particular time. If food doesn't appear, all the bile he's
generated in expectation will get irritating, and he'll toss it up.
No biggie, but avoidable just by mixing up mealtime a bit.

Newbie dogs -- and only a month is still fairly new -- also sometimes
toss up undigested bits of bone. Even oldbie dogs like mine will
toss up some bone if there's more in a meal than they can comfortably
handle. Could it be you're feeding more bone than necessary?

As for loose stools -- well, what's he eating? Variety in = variety
out -- remember that you're not going to see identical ki**le-fed poo
every time your dog goes. Bone-heavy meals = hard crumbly stool;
meatymeat meals = less-formed stool; lots of fat or organs (or
whatever your dog finds "rich") = loose stool.

All just not a big deal, if it's appropriate to what he's been eating
in the last few days.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: Poo Problems!
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:07 am ((PDT))

Sara Hawke <wubbles_hannah@...> wrote:

> Hi, I've been feeding my 7 year old dog raw since January, and
> we've been having a few problems with her poo. Now and again her
> poo is black and runny like tar, which makes me worry she has
> internal bleeding?

I just responded to another message about this -- nothing like
starting your Saturday morning with a little poop-talk -- so please
read that post as well. In short, though, remember that every dog
has its own individual responses to different foods. A lot of beef
liver or kidney or venison will cause these sticky black stools in my
dog; he rarely gets lamb, but as I recall it also causes looser dark
stool. These aren't "problems" -- these are appropriate responses to
individual meals. I don't mean to start an OT conversation, but
c'mon -- does your toilet bowl look exactly the same every day?

> Also, she was constipated this morning quite badly, yet last
> night she only had some ox heart which was just a meaty meal, so
> why would she be so bound up?

I have also found that meals can influence the stool I see as late as
a day and a half later. I don't know why; I don't know if this is a
bad sign; until I see a reason to worry about it, I just don't. But
I can tell you that yesterday evening Griff had a hard stool, the
kind with processed bone in it, and he hadn't had anything with bone
in it since the morning of the previous day.

If I were to find myself feeding nothing but, say, turkey for days on
end, and still seeing goopy black stools, THEN I would think I might
have some bleeding issue. As it is, though, I can usually recognize
what I've fed in whatever I'm picking up, and that doesn't cause any
worry.

> I'm worried her diet is lacking something, this happens on and
> off and shes only ever fed chicken, beef and lamb, with the odd bit
> of liver, fish and egg.

Your basic menu sounds fine, though you might try skipping the lamb,
or reducing it, for a while and seeing if the gassiness and loose
stools go away. Also, I can't help noticing that pork isn't on your
menu, yet it's a staple here, and I can't quite imagine raw feeding
without it. Might be a good way to add a bit of variety,
particularly if you decide to leave out the lamb for a while.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: Poo Problems!
Posted by: "wubbles_hannah" wubbles_hannah@yahoo.co.uk wubbles_hannah
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:44 am ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Thanks for the reponse, its put my mind at ease! As for the lamb, if
we give her a break from it, will that not mean when we feed it again
she'll be even more smelly?

We don't feed her pork no, she doesn't seem to stomach it too well and
as we get meat at a local free range farm which doesn't rear pigs, its
not an option.

I always over worry about her, as being an airedale its almost
impossible to tell when they are in pain as they never show it, which
is why females with birthing troubles can end up near death if the
breeder doesn't pick up on it.

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: Pig Feet/Andrea
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:14 am ((PDT))

"diannem200400" <diannem200400@...> wrote:

> For people who've seen the short feet, often cut lengthwise, in the
> grocery store...I decided to ask the meat guy if he would leave the
> feet whole and as long as possible and eureka, I got foot long
feet.
> So, it's always worth asking. I'd like to know where Cris gets
those
> 20 inch meaty feeties.

If you're nice to your meat guys, they'll be nice to you. (They
might shake their heads and mutter about what a wacko you are, but
they'll be nice anyway, in my experience.) It's amazing what they'll
pull out of the back room if you ask: whole uncut beef hearts? Check
(and for $0.10 a pound less than the sliced on-the-counter price).
Whole veal breast? Check. Whole pork hocks? Check. Whole,
unfettered oxtail, back in the glorious days when it was $1.99 a
pound instead of $4.29? Check -- a whole 2-3 feet worth of tail.
Wowza.

I've gotten what I think Chris O gets -- pork feet that just keep
going and going, until they're indisputably "legs" rather
than "feet" -- though my dog now prefers to have more meat and less
bone in EVERY meal, so pork feet aren't often on the menu anymore.
Still, it's worth a try, if you have a store that actually cuts its
own meat. (Food Lion, at least on the east coast, is good for this.)

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (17)
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3b. Re: Pig Feet/Andrea
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:23 am ((PDT))

"diannem200400" <diannem200400@...> wrote:
I'd like to know where Cris gets those
> 20 inch meaty feeties.
*****
Asian markets. But they are not always available. The "usual" would
be 14" to 16".
Chris O

Messages in this topic (17)
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4a. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:31 am ((PDT))

"Diana Zarate" <zarated5@...> wrote:

> Are there any recipes or books with recipes. I want to
> learn how to prepare the food before giving it to my Jade
(Bulldog).

The best thing you can do is to really hang out on this list, reading
just as much as you can. We cover a range of topics; questions that
won't occur to you for a couple weeks are already being asked every
day. If you're getting email, please also go to the website
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/messages) and read through
old posts there.

Along with that, although I haven't found any books that are worth
much for the nuts-and-bolts of raw feeding, there are several good
websites: first, check out http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes for what
passes for "recipes" here. Kevin's idea of a recipe -- "Take half or
whole chicken or chicken leg quarter and hand it to the dog." -- is
all you really need to do, preparation-wise. No, no one's making fun
of you -- it really is that easy. I know when I started here, nearly
4 years ago, I too thought I'd be doing all this laboring in the
kitchen, fixing some kind of froo-froo recipes for my dog ... now,
I'd guess I spend between 30 seconds and a minute a day feeding the
dog. Lay down feeding towel, open fridge, pull out food, put on
towel, release dog from down-stay. Pick up towel and put away after
meal. Shoo, I bet that ISN'T 30 seconds a day!

Anyway, I digress: other useful websites are
http://www.rawfed.com/ (especially the "myths") and
http://www.rawlearning.com/

Whatever questions you have after all that, fire away! The best
thing you could do, though, while you do all your research, is to buy
a couple whole chickens, whack into meal-sized portions, and start
feeding your dog raw right away.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (7)
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4b. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
Posted by: "lizwehrli" lizwehrli@yahoo.com lizwehrli
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:16 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Zarate" <zarated5@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone, I am new here and I'm willing to learn "the right way"
> to raw feed. Are there any recipes or books with recipes. I want to
> learn how to prepare the food before giving it to my Jade (Bulldog).
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Diana

Check our www.rawfeddogs.net, click on the recipes section

Liz
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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4c. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:17 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Zarate" <zarated5@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello everyone, I am new here and I'm willing to learn "the right
way"
> to raw feed.

Hey DIana,
Welcomd to the world of raw feeding. The right way to feed raw to
your dog is to just hand an animal part to your dog and he will do
the rest. If you want some illustrations check out

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

There are many illustrations there.
I think maybe you need to do some research. Read the book "Work
Wonders" by Dr. Tom Lonsdale. You can find it at

http://www.rawmeatybones.com

You can download it in PDF format for
free. Just click on the picture of the book on the main page.

A few informative web sites are:
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm (My web page)
http://rawfeddogs.net/

--- be sure and check the recipes page.
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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4d. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:18 am ((PDT))

The great thing about a prey-model diet is that you
don't have to worry about recipes or grinding,
smashing, shredding, preparing etc.
Buy a whole chicken, and feed it to your dog.
What he doesn't eat, put in the fridge until the next
meal. Keep him on chicken for about a week or so,
monitor his poo's, if they're a little runny, he may
be eating too much at a sitting.
Then after a week or two, introduce a new protein,
like pork or beef. But only one at a time, at first.
Then you can try organs, like liver. DON'T FEED TOO
MUCH LIVER! Dogs can get cannon-butt VERY easily on
liver, so go with something like a tablespoon or so.
If your dog doesn't like, try freezing. Lots of people
on this list have dogs who won't touch liver unless
it's frozen.
The ideal guidline is %80 meat, %10 bone, %10 organs,
half of which should be liver.
My dog gets more than %10 bone though, because she
just LOVES them.
You just have to figure out what your dog likes and
work with it.

Nathalie

> to raw feed. Are there any recipes or books with
> recipes. I want to
> learn how to prepare the food before giving it to my
> Jade (Bulldog).

Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca

Messages in this topic (7)
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4e. Rawfeeding Recipes
Posted by: "h h" deedeekinsisme@yahoo.com tarbedyh
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:12 am ((PDT))

Hello everyone, I am new here and I'm willing to learn "the right way"
to raw feed. Are there any recipes or books with recipes. I want to
learn how to prepare the food before giving it to my Jade (Bulldog).
Thanks for your time.

~~~~~~~~~
You can find tons of recipes (and pictures of some of our dogs eating) on this website: http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

Also, if you want to get an idea of variety over time, I kept track of everything my dogs and cars were fed for a couple of months before I kinda forgot to write stuff down for a week or two and discontinued it: http://www.geocities.com/tarbedyh/Feeding.html

HEIDI MARIE
~with the woofs-Cheyenne and Lazy B~
~and the moggies-Minerva, Shasta, and Misty-Jo~

---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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4f. Re: Rawfeeding Recipes
Posted by: "Shirley" ssthunderpony@yahoo.com ssthunderpony
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:18 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Zarate" <zarated5@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone, I am new here and I'm willing to learn "the right
way"
> to raw feed.

########### Here you go Diana .

All you will ever need to know about
proper raw feeding recipes. Enjoy ;-))

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

Good Luck,

~Shirley ........
who firmly believes that wolves did not have grinders
or hunt for their next meal in Farmer McGregor's Veggie garden
unless they were looking for 'that' rabbit *g*

Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "ohboyx3" ohboyx3@wildblue.net ohboyx3
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:35 am ((PDT))

Someone recently told me I could add a tiny bit of vinegar to my dogs
water. This was to improve my papilions tarter problem. Both of my
dogs have been on raw since Dec. My Jack Russell's teeth look great but
my little one's not so great.

I have done this twice and I already see an improvement with his teeth.
A surprising result was discovered in that he has a contsant eye running
that caused reddish stain under eye. When his water has vinegar in it
the drainage goes away( vinegar antibacterial properties I guess) which
came back when his water lacked the vinegar.

My concern is will this harm him and how much to I add to his water.

Has anyone done this

Would love all your opinions.

Danae for Zorreaux

Messages in this topic (7)
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5b. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:53 am ((PDT))

"ohboyx3" <ohboyx3@...> wrote:
>
This was to improve my papilions tarter problem. Both of my
> dogs have been on raw since Dec. My Jack Russell's teeth look great
but
> my little one's not so great.
>
> I have done this twice and I already see an improvement with his
teeth.
> A surprising result was discovered in that he has a contsant eye
running
> that caused reddish stain under eye. When his water has vinegar in it
> the drainage goes away( vinegar antibacterial properties I guess)
*****
Since you see improvement based on the amount you are now using, keep
using that amount. It's not going to hurt your Pap and if the
improvement continues you're good to go. If over time there is no
notable improvement, you've not lost anything but time.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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5c. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:55 am ((PDT))

Hi Danae,

Well, nothing scientific, but it doesn't seem natural to me and I
would be concerned about the acidity of the vinegar eating away at
the teeth. I wonder if it's eating away at the tartar, but also the
enamel, etc.?

Also, as far as the eye drainage...it is a symptom of the body trying
to cleanse/get rid of some type of current or past toxin (bad food,
vaccines/drugs, etc.). So if you add something else toxic to the
body/diet (like vinegar), then the body might shift its priorities
toward getting rid of or storing (cysts, tumors) the new toxin
(vinegar, in this case) and may have to stop what else it was doing.
So, symptoms may change or seem to improve. They may go away for
awhile, but if toxins are still burdening the body, they will come
back or turn into worse forms of disease (again, like tumors or
cancer, etc.). Past or current toxins can both be of issue--
although, past toxins can be eliminated if we ease the current burden
enough. The body will cleanse and heal. I don't know how toxic
vinegar is, but since we know it's not a natural food, if you see the
symptom go away due to feeding it, it's only because whatever the
body was trying to do got interrupted. If interested in more info,
you might Google "toxemia" or let me know and I can dig up some
references.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ohboyx3" <ohboyx3@...> wrote:
>
> I have done this twice and I already see an improvement with his
teeth.
> A surprising result was discovered in that he has a contsant eye
running
> that caused reddish stain under eye. When his water has vinegar in
it
> the drainage goes away( vinegar antibacterial properties I guess)
which
> came back when his water lacked the vinegar.

Messages in this topic (7)
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5d. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:05 am ((PDT))

I'm just curious, what are you feeding him?
Some people say they are feeding raw but are including
veggies and yogurt etc, which could be causing his eye
leaking and inability to get rid of tartar.

Nathalie

--- ohboyx3 <ohboyx3@wildblue.net> wrote:

>Both of my
> dogs have been on raw since Dec. My Jack Russell's
> teeth look great but
> my little one's not so great.

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Messages in this topic (7)
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5e. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "ohboyx3" ohboyx3@wildblue.net ohboyx3
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:06 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nathalie Poulin
<poulin_nathalie@...> wrote:
>
> I'm just curious, what are you feeding him?
> Some people say they are feeding raw but are including
> veggies and yogurt etc, which could be causing his eye
> leaking and inability to get rid of tartar.
>
> Nathalie
>
> > They are only getting raw chicken,pork, cornish hens,
liver,hearts,salmon,chicken eggs,sardines.
It may be that he is just not getting enough bone action with the small
amount of food he eats. He is five pounds, so he doesn't eat very much.

Danae

Messages in this topic (7)
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5f. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "ohboyx3" ohboyx3@wildblue.net ohboyx3
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:07 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nathalie Poulin
<poulin_nathalie@...> wrote:
>
> I'm just curious, what are you feeding him?
> Some people say they are feeding raw but are including
> veggies and yogurt etc, which could be causing his eye
> leaking and inability to get rid of tartar.
>
> Nathalie
>
> > They are only getting raw chicken,pork, cornish hens,
liver,hearts,salmon,chicken eggs,sardines.
It may be that he is just not getting enough bone action with the small
amount of food he eats. He is five pounds, so he doesn't eat very much.

Danae

Messages in this topic (7)
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5g. Re: Anyone add vinegar to their dogs drinking water
Posted by: "ohboyx3" ohboyx3@wildblue.net ohboyx3
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:10 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nathalie Poulin
<poulin_nathalie@...> wrote:
>
> I'm just curious, what are you feeding him?
> Some people say they are feeding raw but are including
> veggies and yogurt etc, which could be causing his eye
> leaking and inability to get rid of tartar.
>
> Nathalie
>
> > They are only getting raw chicken,pork, cornish hens,
liver,hearts,salmon,chicken eggs,sardines.
It may be that he is just not getting enough bone action with the small
amount of food he eats. He is five pounds, so he doesn't eat very much.

Danae

Messages in this topic (7)
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6a. raw and kibble mix
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:36 am ((PDT))

Ok, here goes, I'm risking being "flamed" here but I need to be upfront so maybe someone can give me some good advice for the benefit of our dog. I know totally raw is the best, just that my hands are tied because Nugget was Brian's dog first before we started living together.
I've tried feeding raw and recently hit a snag. My sister who has been feeding raw to her dogs for 6 years has been after me to feed Nugget raw for the past 1 1/2 yrs since Brian and I moved in together. Since Nugget was originally Brian's dog, he has the last say as to what we do with Nugget and he's been very opposed to raw until the pet food scare (recall) came about. Then he grudgingly consented to letting me "half" feed raw but that was after we exhausted every possible kibble on the market. We had chosen an expensive, supposedly high quality kibble and then a week later saw it on the list of recalls. That finally convinced him. For his convenience we found a kibble that my sister recommended (although she only feeds raw, she suggested this until I could convince him). So we started feeding him Innova kibble in the mornings and raw chicken (chopped bones because Brian refused to allow me to feed whole chicken parts due to his hearing many stories about dogs
choking and dying from eating chicken bones. Never mind that I tried to tell him that it was cooked chicken bones that do that. Yes, my Brian is a stubborn one). So Nugget was doing well with his kibble breakfast and his chicken dinner until I introduced liver one day (and that week had introduced codfish, pork neck and beef heart), then he threw up once and had diarrhea for 4 days. Of course Brian insisted we go back to feeding him only kibble to stop the diarrhea. Nugget's diarrhea stopped. I included some Slippery Elm in his kibble. The day he threw up we had just gotten a grinder for the chicken bones and ground the bones but feed the meat in chunks. I'm wondering if this had anything to do with his diarrhea because I continued to feed him this mix of ground chicken bones and chunks of chicken meat throughout the 4 days. (with kibble breakfast). Two days before he threw up I had started feeding him raw completely. I had been feeding him kibble breakfast and raw
chicken/lamb for dinner for about 2 months before this incident.
Please don't tell me how stupid Brian is for doing this to Nugget, I know how stupid he is about dog nutrition and I've been telling him everything I read on this list, other lists, my sister's advice and research info but he's still stubbornly against feeding whole pieces of raw meat with bones. UUUgggghhh.
What I'm actually looking for is information on what this is doing to Nugget's digestion and why he was ok with it for 2 months and not ok now. I need actual details about what kibble does to them digestively and why it isn't good, so I can pass this on to him. The bone situation, I'm not sure I can convince him of that. Ironically he's ok with my giving him beef ribs with bone and lamb with bone and watching him crunch on that but not chicken (which is the softest bone around) Again, past stories of dogs choking on chicken bones.
Sorry this is so long but I wanted you to have all the background. I've written about this first but hadn't been upfront about still feeding kibble because I didn't want to be scolded because I know better but it's not up to me.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. Re: raw and kibble mix
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:05 am ((PDT))

It really sucks that you're trying so hard for this
dog and your boyfriend is working so hard against you.

Try going to

www.rawfed.com/myths

and MAKE your boyfriend read it. Hopefully it should
quell his fears. Also, maybe you could try asking him
to let you be in charge of feeding for the next month
so he can see the difference in how well a raw diet
will actually do his dog.

I know you've told him that it's COOKED chicken bones
that cause stomach upset, is there any way you can try
again to convince him?
I thought my boyfriend would be totally against
feeding our dog raw but when I laid out the facts and
told him he had no choice, he actually agreed with me.

Also, crushing up bones is not doing your dog any good
(as I'm sure YOU know).
When you bring this up with your boyfriend, does he
listen to you? Or does he just shut you down and not
want to listen? Maybe you should get him to join this
list!
Would you really be so adament about feeding the dog
raw if it was unhealthy?

I don't know what else to tell you, but I'd be really
frustrated with this if I were you.

Nathalie

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Messages in this topic (3)
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6c. Re: raw and kibble mix
Posted by: "Karen Swanay" luvbullbreeds@gmail.com kswanay1111
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:18 pm ((PDT))

The diarrhea was probably caused by ALL the things you added at once plus
> organ meats are notorious for causing loose stool. So if you can go back
> and start again, add only one thing at a time. And only small amounts of
> organs especially if you can't balance the softness with the hardness of
> bone. So that's the only thing I can tell you. I understand having to deal
> with a reluctant family member and if everyone on this list was honest, we
> ALL have at least one member that can't be convinced. My own mother won't
> let me give even small amounts of cooked meat to her dogs and she has seen
> mine and all the benefits from eating raw for 6+ yrs.
>

Karen

>
>

--
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."

LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07

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Messages in this topic (3)
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7. Goat Meat?
Posted by: "briargarden07" briargarden07@yahoo.com briargarden07
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:40 pm ((PDT))

Hi! I'm new here but not to raw feeding. My husband and I have
10 dogs, mostly Bassets, Patch Beagles & two large mutts. We always
fed our hounds any leftover rabbit meat they caught, and my Patch
Beagles are "run to catch and dispatch" hounds, lol! So they always
got raw meat and leftover cooked scraps. About 5-6 years ago I
elminated kibble altogether, and it was a blessing we did, because I
fed Diamond ...
Anyway, my question is about goat meat. We used to get it for
the dogs in 5# packages at an ethnic market for .99 per lb. It was a
treat we gave them once a week. Since I moved, I haven't even seen
goat meat in years! I recently bought them several packs of goat
meat at the local grocery store that started carrying it this
summer - but its not the type of goat meat I remember giving to them
years back. Its cut into cubes that have small, hard as rock bones
in between the meat :( The goat meat I used to buy was sort of like
stewing beef, with no bones or bones like lamb necks. This new cubed
meat is horrible. Two of the Bassets got the small bone stuck in the
roof of their mouth, and we've NEVER had problems with bones in all
this time.
My dogs never did fare too well with chicken so I try to give
them red meat as much as possible. And on top of that they love the
goat meat, tolerate it very, very well. I was wondering if there are
other ways to purchase the goat meat besides those cubes with the
small, hard bones (they remind me of thin beef rib bones)? OR do
they only come cubed now? I've been cutting out those small bones
and jsut giving them the meat mixed in with an egg and some
scraps ... too much work, lol ;)
Thanks!

Noelle

Messages in this topic (1)
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8. Question about RAW feedings
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:48 pm ((PDT))

I don't think I'm feeding enough - you all said that I should be feeding 10%
of their body weight, what does that exactly mean? I've been feeding
chicken for about a week now - I started out with Chicken Leg Quarters for
the big boys under 80 lbs(2 a piece morning and night) - and Chicken Thighs
for the girls (2 thighs for Roxie, under 50lb and 1 thigh for Catorie under
25lbs???) I know I'm not feeding nearly enough for the girls! I am not
good with percentages etc...yesterday I went to the store and bought their
quick sale stuff - I got a package of drumsticks, thighs, a couple of
packages of whole chickens already cut up - so what I did was I gave the big
boys Max got half of the whole chicken which included half chicken, wing,
drumstick, the back and the thigh - Duke who needs to go on a diet anyway
even before I put him on the RAW diet (u can't feel his ribs)got half of
chicken and the back - Catori got a leg quarter and Roxie got leg quarter,
drum stick and thigh. So, how much is 10% of their body weight?

Another question, I train dogs on the side - and I got this Boxer/Heeler
this morning along with her crate and her dog (Puppy Chow) - well I didn't
put her Puppy Chow up and well my big dogs got into the bag (grrrrrrrr!) and
now my males are all full on Puppy Chow - my question is should I feed them
their evening meal? Or should I wait until the kibble is digested? And
also how many times a day should I be feeding them? Right now I'm feeding
them twice a day.

Thanks in advanced,

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

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Messages in this topic (1)
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9. Alternative Tx for allergies?
Posted by: "Laurie" lnhoffman57@aol.com lauriescritters
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:22 pm ((PDT))

Hi Everyone:

I took my PWD who has skin allergies to a Alternative Vet today and she
did muscle testing on her and the results showed that my dog is
allergic to Vit. A, Calcium, and pollen. I'm not surprised by the
pollen (I've had her tested for environmental offenders and she came up
highly allergic to a bunch of things, in addition to pollen.) But Vit.A
and Calcium? Wouldn't that mean she's allergic to her RMB because the
bones have calcium? I've heard good and voodoo about muscle testing,
but I gave it a shot. Anyway, the Vet gave me Homaccord solutions, one
for the Vit A/Calcium, and one for the pollen. She told me to hold the
bottle against the dog, tap down her spine at least 6 times, continue
holding the bottle against her body for 5 minutes, then give her a few
drops of the stuff orally. I'm all for alternative/herbal/holistic
health care, for both my animals and people, but has anyone had any
experience with this? Seems a bit nuts to me. Thanks in advance for
your help!!

Laurie and Storm

Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: Any dogs 10+ years on raw?
Posted by: "Dawn Ruhl" Dawnofthedanes@mac.com dawnofthedanes
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:23 pm ((PDT))

I have one Dane who self raw fed as a young dog. That is why he ended
up in my rescue. He was killing the neighbor's calves and eating them.
He was 3 when he came here and will be 11 this December.
His teeth are as nice as my pups', and he is a hoot. He rips through
the house after every elimination. We all know what he was doing. LOL
~;*;~ Dawn ~;*;~
http://www.dawnofthedanes.com

~;*;~ ~;*;~ ~;*;~ ~;*;~ ~;*;~
> My question is: does anyone have a dog who has been fed raw for 10 or
> more years, and what is the dog like, coat/teeth/ears/health in
> general? I'm curious :) and looking forward to seeing it for myself.
>
> TIA! Laeny
>

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Messages in this topic (4)
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