[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11895

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Feeding arw to a dog who has had a mouth Biopsy
From: costrowski75
1b. Re: Feeding arw to a dog who has had a mouth Biopsy
From: Susanne MacLeod

2a. Re: Q re pork stomach
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: Q re pork stomach
From: Daisy Foxworth
2c. Re: Q re pork stomach
From: Daisy Foxworth
2d. Re: Q re pork stomach
From: Morledzep@aol.com

3a. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure what
From: pigasus718
3b. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure what
From: becca1066
3c. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure what
From: Denise Strother

4. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure w...
From: Morledzep@aol.com

5a. Re: First time question
From: Joy Redwine

6a. Re: No problems and a lovely vet
From: Bumble1994@aol.com
6b. Re: No problems and a lovely vet
From: Nathalie Poulin

7a. Feeding Pork shoulder
From: Marion LoPrinzi
7b. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
From: Laurie Swanson
7c. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
From: Jolene Nelson
7d. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
From: diannem200400

8a. Variety of meats
From: tdifr62
8b. Re: Variety of meats
From: costrowski75
8c. Re: Variety of meats
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

9a. diarrhea/Abscess/runny eyes
From: Eloise Stanley

10a. Re: I need your honest experience on this..
From: Cdandp2@aol.com
10b. Re: I need your honest experience on this..
From: delcaste

11a. E vitamin
From: Andelys Peck

12a. Pig Feet
From: diannem200400

Messages
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1a. Re: Feeding arw to a dog who has had a mouth Biopsy
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 1:33 pm ((PDT))

"Susanne MacLeod" <suzmacleod@...> wrote:
The prognosis is grim. Anyow, the dog's vet has
> made a comment to him, saying there is no evidence that raw will help
> the dog, which we all now is Bull. My question, is with a dog in
this
> state, who has had 2 recenets biopsy's on the roof of her mouth, is
> there any danger from feeding raw?
*****
With all due respect to hope springing eternal, I suspect the vet is
right. However, if feeding the dog a nourishing and tasty raw diet of
most anything it will eat makes the dog's remaining time a happier
time, then why the heck not try it? Improving quality life in terminal
patients is a fine achievement. If somehow healthy food also prolongs
the dog's life, that's even better.

I don't believe that bugs and germs are any more an issue now than they
would ever have been.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: Feeding arw to a dog who has had a mouth Biopsy
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 3:01 pm ((PDT))

I was hoping you would answer Chris.....thank-you. It's a very sad
story as the cancer is caused by poor food and/or evironmental
carcinogens. What more do people need to switch their dog to a
species appropriate diet!!!! I offered to drive a trunkload of raw
food over to him....and he isn't ready yet!!! :(
Grrrr
Suz

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Q re pork stomach
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 1:40 pm ((PDT))

"Daisy Foxworth" <daisyfoxworth@...> wrote:
I understand that white tripe is useless and that chicken
> gizzards are counted as muscle and not organ, but what about pork
> stomach? Is it glandular enough to count as an organ?
*****
Nope. Can't get there from here. If you want to feed pig stomach
tissue, that's fine; but don't do so thinking you are feeding organ
meat, cuz you ain't.

Oh well.
Chris

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Q re pork stomach
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:17 pm ((PDT))

If you want to feed pig stomach
> tissue, that's fine; but don't do so thinking you are feeding organ
> meat, cuz you ain't.
>

Thanks so much, Chris, that's what I needed to know! ;^) I didn't
buy it, figured I'd check with the experts here first.

Daisy

Messages in this topic (5)
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2c. Re: Q re pork stomach
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:18 pm ((PDT))

If you want to feed pig stomach
> tissue, that's fine; but don't do so thinking you are feeding organ
> meat, cuz you ain't.
>

Thanks so much, Chris, that's what I needed to know! ;^) I didn't
buy it, figured I'd check with the experts here first.

Daisy

Messages in this topic (5)
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2d. Re: Q re pork stomach
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:38 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/9/2007 10:52:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com writes:

I understand that white tripe is useless and that chicken
gizzards are counted as muscle and not organ, but what about pork
stomach? Is it glandular enough to count as an organ?

Daisy,

Pork stomach, much like beef tripe is clean and scalded "for your safety".
And is therefore not great wolfchow.

however, i did buy a case of them once, and found that they are like leather
and make great, safe chew toys for teething puppies.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure what
Posted by: "pigasus718" pigasus718@yahoo.com pigasus718
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:17 pm ((PDT))

hi Janelle,
Glad to hear your dog is thriving on raw.
Dogs are carnivores and don't need vegetables.
Their digestive tracts and teeth are not set up
for them. Just keep giving meat/bone/organs and
your dog will get everything it needs.

Robyn

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure what
Posted by: "becca1066" becca1066@yahoo.com becca1066
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:17 pm ((PDT))

real simple, Jenelle:

veggies = bad
meat = good

becca

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Jenelle Fraser <fraserjenelle@...>
wrote:
>
> hello, my dog Cami just loves the raw meat diet. I have noticed so
many improvements with her it's incredible. I'm still trying to learn
more about what veggies are good and which ones are bad. If you have
suggestions please letme know. Thank you.
> Nelly
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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3c. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure what
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:18 pm ((PDT))

Hi Nelly,
Vegetables are usually neither good nor bad, they are just species
inappropriate, just as feeding cows or horses meat is species
inappropriate.. Some dogs have problems with veggies and/or fruit
and/or grains, some don't. No dog is equipped to utilize them is the
point. Feeding vegs/fruit/grains is a wast of resources and the only
benefit is in the human's mind. Denise

hello, my dog Cami just loves the raw meat diet. I have noticed so many
improvements with her it's incredible. I'm still trying to learn more
about what veggies are good and which ones are bad. If you have
suggestions please letme know. Thank you.
Nelly

Messages in this topic (4)
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4. Re: Hello, I'm a new member of the raw feeding group, not sure w...
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:32 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/9/2007 12:24:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
fraserjenelle@yahoo.com writes:

I'm still trying to learn more about what veggies are good and which ones are
bad. If you have suggestions please letme know. Thank you.

Nelly,

no veggies is good.. dogs don't need em, can't digest them and get any
nutritional value from them, no need to make room for them in the overall diet.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: First time question
Posted by: "Joy Redwine" redwine1@windstream.net redwinejoy
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:58 pm ((PDT))

Wow! You guys are such a big help. Thank you all so much for your
input. Joy

Messages in this topic (9)
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6a. Re: No problems and a lovely vet
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 3:22 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/9/2007 4:26:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Nathalie
Poulin writes:

It's probably because they can't push you to buy kibble for the cows and
horses!

****
Wrong! And when they came out with the "new and improved" pellet horse feed,
many years ago, I was NOT impressed.

Lynda

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Messages in this topic (5)
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6b. Re: No problems and a lovely vet
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 5:02 pm ((PDT))

I'm actually speachless...I thought that cows and
horses ate naturally. I wasn't aware that there was
pellet's for horses.
So much for my thoughts!

Nathalie

> It's probably because they can't push you to buy
> kibble for the cows and
> horses!
>
>
> ****
> Wrong! And when they came out with the "new and
> improved" pellet horse feed,
> many years ago, I was NOT impressed.
>
> Lynda
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak
> peek of the all-new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

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Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. Feeding Pork shoulder
Posted by: "Marion LoPrinzi" mbldesigns@yahoo.com mbldesigns
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 6:09 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I've just had to switch 2 of my dogs over to pork, 1 seems to be allergic to chicken, his ears have exploded with rash as have his armpits and rear end, the other won't eat chicken no matter what I do. So I found a picnic pork shoulder. They loved it. But I have questions.

1- there is a lot of fat and thick skin, I'm sure if I feed that, they will get sick, what do I do with it? feed a little at a time? throw it out? freeze and save for winter feeding?

2- the bone is huge!!! so I cannot cut it for sharing. I have 6 dogs in the house and if I give it to just one, there will be fights. same outside where I have 2 dogs. Do I throw it out? or do I freeze it and future ones and wait till I have enough for everyone to have one and then watch them chew? are these considered rec bones?

3- since these 2 dogs are going to be solely on pork for a while, and they're going to be getting mostly if not all meat, that means no bone. Should I be buying them some pork rib bones so they get the bone?

Thank you in advance,
Marion and the gang

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 7:27 pm ((PDT))

Hi Marion,

I bought a bunch of lamb recently, sight unseen, and it turned out to
be quite fatty. My dog can't tolerate a lot of fat (loose stool), so
I'm freezing some for treats (to give sparingly in bits). I guess I
could also add it to leaner meat meals. But it is definitely
bringing my cost up on that item. If I were you, I'd cut a lot of it
off and see how your dogs do. If their stools look good, then try
leaving more on next time. But a lot of people can feed fattier cuts
with no problem (especially if not a newbie rawfed dog).

I would try to get some big pork necks or slabs of ribs to add in if
you're getting a lot of meatymeat pork hunks. But can you feed the
shoulder bone to one of the dogs in a crate or separate room and then
rotate who gets the bone/who gets fed separately? Or can you buy
enough shoulders for each dog and then cut off hunks of meat for all
the dogs for one or two days and feed the remaining meat on bone the
next (or something like that?)?

I only have 1 dog--hopefully others can comment more on the food
aggression issue.

Laurie

Messages in this topic (4)
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7c. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
Posted by: "Jolene Nelson" imperial_bloodlines@yahoo.com imperial_bloodlines
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 7:56 pm ((PDT))

Hey Marion,

Pork shoulders are my staple food for my bullies. Each dog can devour one on their own though so usually they each get one about twice a week. Chicken backs, necks, quarters, livers, offal etc make up the rest of the meals for the week.

I would definitely say add some bone with chicken backs/quarters a few times a week. Also ensure plenty organs.

The fat on it....they eat that too...all of it. The first few times I fed they did have slightly runny stools, but it's not an issue now. Unless your dog has specific fat issues I would say leave it on. It's actually pretty good for the whole chewing exercise.

Oh! And talk to your meat guy at the market, he will cut the shoulder for you if they do not offer it sliced. My market has whole and sliced shoulder which gives nice chunks of bone perfect for gnawing. They do eventually eat the bone most of the times when it is sliced however.

Hope that helps,

Jo

Marion LoPrinzi <mbldesigns@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi,

1- there is a lot of fat and thick skin, I'm sure if I feed that, they will get sick, what do I do with it? feed a little at a time? throw it out? freeze and save for winter feeding?

2- the bone is huge!!! so I cannot cut it for sharing.

3- since these 2 dogs are going to be solely on pork for a while, and they're going to be getting mostly if not all meat, that means no bone. Should I be buying them some pork rib bones so they get the bone?

Thank you in advance,
Marion and the gang

Jolene Nelson
I'm a proud Raw Bully owner!
Imperial Bulldoggs

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (4)
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7d. Re: Feeding Pork shoulder
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:31 am ((PDT))

Hi Marion:

Get a meat saw! I feed pork as a primary meat. I get 7 or 8 pound
picnic porks and saw them into 3 pieces so each dog gets lots of meat
and a nice piece of bone. They will eat all the bone. I used a
regular wood saw, but it was a pain. A hunter friend lent me his meat
saw and it works great; you can saw through a pork bone in a couple of
minutes. The thick fat is great for chewing. My guys got some loose
stools the first few times I fed it, but they have no problem now.

Dianne M.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Marion LoPrinzi <mbldesigns@...>
wrote:

> 2- the bone is huge!!! so I cannot cut it for sharing.

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Variety of meats
Posted by: "tdifr62" tdifraia@comcast.net tdifr62
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 7:25 pm ((PDT))

Is it OK to change the variety of meats on a weekly basis. Ie.. Mon beef,
Tue chicken Wed Pork Thur beef Fri Fish. Is that kind of change
good, because of the different variety? Or will it upset his digestive
system?
Tommy D

Messages in this topic (3)
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8b. Re: Variety of meats
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 7:41 pm ((PDT))

"tdifr62" <tdifraia@...> wrote:
>
> Is it OK to change the variety of meats on a weekly basis. Ie.. Mon
beef,
> Tue chicken Wed Pork Thur beef Fri Fish. Is that kind of change
> good, because of the different variety? Or will it upset his digestive
> system?
*****
It is okay; it is okay to go lengths of time feeding one protein; it is
even okay to mix them together in one pot luckish sort of meal.

The only thing I would recommend is you not try it out suddenlike. If
you have just started feeding raw, give your dog a chance to get to
know meats one by one--not necessarily a deep meaningful relationship,
but perhaps more than a nodding acquaintence.

When you have a sense of how your dog eats what, you canorganize
feedings however you want. There is nothing intrinsically upsetting
about arranging meals this way. It's a little more rigid than I feed,
but I suspect many people feed a specific rotation and do so without
problems.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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8c. Re: Variety of meats
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 7:47 pm ((PDT))

It's fine if your dog is used to it, but not in the beginning. For the first few weeks one source of protein is best. When you first change to a different source, you should keep the next source for at least a week, and then the next change for a week and then so on. Until you feel your dog(s) are used to the different meats. Mine snack on ribs and pigs feet and other kinds of bones so they get all kinds of stuff all along. How long have you been doing this? My dogs do whatever is first in the freezer for me to get at.:) But they have been raw fed all along. How about yours?
In answer to your question, for my dogs, nope, it's fine, they love the change daily, every day they get something different. Most dogs once on the diet can handle the different kinds of meats, and like it. Mine didn't like fish, but now they like canned mackeral. Then some days they get the same thing. Just depends on what's in the freezer, what was on sale, and how much I got of it:)
Jeni

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9a. diarrhea/Abscess/runny eyes
Posted by: "Eloise Stanley" e.l.o.i.s.e@sbcglobal.net faintatheart
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 7:26 pm ((PDT))

how much slippery elm would you give to help diarrhea go away? (20lb
dog) how do you give it...is it a powder on top of food or a liquid?
thanks
eloise

(ps I am not up on my internet lingo but I have seen this on a few
posts...what does TIA stand for?)

Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. Re: I need your honest experience on this..
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 8:38 pm ((PDT))

I"m a relative newbie. My second try with raw (first with previous cocker
who succumbed to kidney failure which I thought I'd caused with the
diet...sigh). I don't believe that anymore.

My current guy has been on raw for about 5 months already. He had one
scarey moment with a large piece of liver or kidney (soft and squishy and he
doesn't rip/tear so he swallowed the whole chunk and gagged for a moment or so
then swallowed it). BUT, and I'm with other folk on the list here, he almost
choked TWICE on kibble from inhaling too much too fast. ONe of those was way
more scarier (I swear he stopped breathing for a moment) than the organ meat
thing. With the bones, he seems to work them down or crunch them and swallow
pieces. When he swallows too much he just vomits up little bits and eats
them. So far so good.

But overall his energy, mood, coat, EYES, TEETH, ears...everything just
seems brighter. So I'm going with this. My guy is heartworm positive and has
other problems, but I still see this improvement in his overall quality of
health/energy so I'm sticking with it.

If he should have the misfortune of death by raw (a totally possible
occurrence in nature as well), totally happy and full of energy, I'll take that over
slow death and disease by kibble.

BTW, Natural Balance just sent me a letter with a $5.00 (FIVE
DOLLAR!!!$%%%**##) coupon encouraging me to purchase their food now that I can be assured
that they've put safety measure into practice (still no mention of any
guarantee that the food is safe though!!!)...and apologies for having had to recall
the food that my dog was eating before because it was poison. FIVE
DOLLARS!!!! Right.

Carol for Spencer (having survived a near miss with Natural Balance Venison
and Brown Rice I'll take raw meat, organs, and bones thank you very much)

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Messages in this topic (15)
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10b. Re: I need your honest experience on this..
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:31 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lar07911" <lar07911@...> wrote:

Feedback welcome please! Thanks,
> Laura
>
Hi Laura,

I am a Newbie here but I have to tell you that switching to raw has
made such a wonderful difference in my dogs lives. They took to raw
like they'd been eating it all their lives! Besides they love their
chicken feet treats, lol!

I have a "gulper" and have been giving her larger portions and when
she is almost done I take it away and give it to the other dogs. She
has choked on this diet but she has also choked many more times on
the k****ble. I just have to watch her and I'm learning what I can
and can't give her.

Just jump in, IMO, you'll never be sorry you did.

Silvina and the pugs with Chino

Messages in this topic (15)
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11a. E vitamin
Posted by: "Andelys Peck" a_peck@hotmail.com rottsnkelpies
Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 9:06 pm ((PDT))

Hello,
I do not dose Vitamin E according to how much Salmon Oil I give rather
according to the weight of that particular K9.I don't know how big your dog
is but mine are around 90 lbs and I give them 3000 mg salmon oil per day and
400 iu of Vitamin E every other day.But then I don't feel more is always
better as regards to vitamins,some give much higher doses.J.M.O.Hope that
helps,

Andy

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Messages in this topic (11)
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12a. Pig Feet
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:31 am ((PDT))

I got a good deal on pig's feet, but I haven't fed them before. My
question is, do they have any nutritive value or are they just
recreational? They are about 12 inches long and look to have meat on
them, but it's hard to tell. If I fed 3 or 4 of them to a big dog,
would it be a meal, or should I just give them as fun chewie toys?

Dianne M.

Messages in this topic (5)
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