[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11892

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Matisse: black stool
From: costrowski75
1b. Re: Matisse: black stool
From: lizwehrli
1c. Re: Matisse: black stool
From: Pamela Picard
1d. Re: Matisse: black stool
From: Melinda
1e. Matisse: black stool
From: blechatlb@aol.com

2a. Re: Newbie who needs help
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
2b. Re: Newbie who needs help
From: Dawn Teuscher
2c. Re: Newbie who needs help
From: Dawn Teuscher
2d. Re: Newbie who needs help
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: calcium/magnesium ratio????
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

4a. New here... Would love some advice! Thanks :D
From: akitaprincess04
4b. Re: New here... Would love some advice! Thanks :D
From: cmhausrath
4c. Re: New here... Would love some advice! Thanks :D
From: Nathalie Poulin
4d. Re: New here... Would love some advice! Thanks :D
From: carnesbill
4e. Re: New here... Would love some advice! Thanks :D
From: pigasus718

5a. Re: Jack/Chi Mix Acts Like He's Afraid Of New Foods!
From: Laurie Swanson

6a. Re: How many lbs. can you fit into a standard refrigerator?
From: Laurie Swanson

7a. pulling out of pancreatitis
From: yarmey2002
7b. Re: pulling out of pancreatitis
From: costrowski75

8a. Re: E vitamin
From: Shirley
8b. Re: E vitamin
From: cypressbunny
8c. Re: E vitamin
From: Shirley
8d. Re: E vitamin
From: Nathalie Poulin

9. I need your honest experience on this..
From: lar07911

10. First time question
From: redwinejoy

Messages
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1a. Re: Matisse: black stool
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 2:38 pm ((PDT))

"Pamela Picard" <pet.wellness@...> wrote:
>
> I am concerned. Yesterday in the a.m., he ate beef. Yesterday,
scant,
> black tarry stool was covered in green mucous. I was thinking this
was
> progress, but maybe not. Last night, he ate a couple of scrambled
> eggs. Today, he is eating grass and refusing sardines, which he
> usually relishes. Energy level is low. Is it time to call our
> homeopath or take him to the conventional vet for x-rays? Our
> homeopath always says "wait and watch;" that will be $75 please. And
> our conventional vet always offers $500 diagnostics.
*****
Well, we waited and we saw. I can easily say "wait and see" for
free, but we done that. Perhaps it is indeed vet time.

Isn't there any way you can work the vet to get attention that is
somewhere between $0 and $500? Not eating plus lethargy are IMO
actionable symptoms.

Perhaps others will respond with other options.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (13)
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1b. Re: Matisse: black stool
Posted by: "lizwehrli" lizwehrli@yahoo.com lizwehrli
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 3:55 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Pamela Picard" <pet.wellness@...>
wrote:
>
> I am concerned. Yesterday in the a.m., he ate beef. Yesterday, scant,
> black tarry stool was covered in green mucous. I was thinking this was
> progress, but maybe not. Last night, he ate a couple of scrambled
> eggs. Today, he is eating grass and refusing sardines, which he
> usually relishes. Energy level is low. Is it time to call our
> homeopath or take him to the conventional vet for x-rays?

Hi Pam,

I may be way out in left field. I too have a standard poodle. Two
years ago, prior to feeding raw, Gus stopped being interested in food
and lost his energy, had gooey poops, and vomited frequently. He was
5 years old. After countless vet visits, over $4000, we finally got a
diagnosis of Addisons disease, an adrenal insufficiency. It is called
the great pretender beacause it can mimic many other things. A simple
electrolyte test, potassium and sodium can point the way to diagnosis.
It isn't an uncommon disease in standard poodles. So this is just a
thought. Now Gus is raw fed, vaccine and poison free and loving life.

Liz

Messages in this topic (13)
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1c. Re: Matisse: black stool
Posted by: "Pamela Picard" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 3:57 pm ((PDT))

Thanks so much. It's very helpful to have so many experienced people
to advise on this. As much as I hate to go backwards to itchy skin,
we're going to see if he goes for a quarter of a chicken. If he still
refuses food, we'll see the vet tomorrow. I'll keep you posted.
Pamela

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Pamela Picard" <pet.wellness@...>
wrote:
>
> This is a new one. My 10 year old standard poodle has been on raw for
> over a year. We recently switched to beef, increasing muscle meat and
> organs, decreasing edible bone. He seemed to be doing very well. Three
> days ago, after a meal of edible beef brisket bone, he had a very
> severe attack of gastritis. I could hear his tummy gurgling from
> another room. He was acting sort of nauseous too. I gave him a
> homeopathic remedy. The audible distress stopped in about half an
> hour. He refused food all day, which was fine. In the evening, on our
> walk. he had diarrhea. Also fine, whatever it was leaving his system.
> Now three days have passed. He's eating, peeing, all fine. But poo is
> thick, tar-like, which he squeezes out like toothpaste. I would think
> after three days, he'd have a normal, well formed stool. It's so acid,
> his butt is all raw.
>
> Any thoughts or suggestions?
> Pamela
> www.pet-wellness-update.com
>

Messages in this topic (13)
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1d. Re: Matisse: black stool
Posted by: "Melinda" mjensen@gotsky.com mjjennes
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 5:09 pm ((PDT))

Hi Pam,

I agree it's time to find out what's going on. And you might consider giving your guy's
system a rest and not offer any food tonight. Sometimes feeding a problem is just that.

Melinda

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Pamela Picard" <pet.wellness@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks so much. It's very helpful to have so many experienced people
> to advise on this. As much as I hate to go backwards to itchy skin,
> we're going to see if he goes for a quarter of a chicken. If he still
> refuses food, we'll see the vet tomorrow. I'll keep you posted.
> Pamela
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Pamela Picard" <pet.wellness@>
> wrote:
> >
> > This is a new one. My 10 year old standard poodle has been on raw for
> > over a year. We recently switched to beef, increasing muscle meat and
> > organs, decreasing edible bone. He seemed to be doing very well. Three
> > days ago, after a meal of edible beef brisket bone, he had a very
> > severe attack of gastritis. I could hear his tummy gurgling from
> > another room. He was acting sort of nauseous too. I gave him a
> > homeopathic remedy. The audible distress stopped in about half an
> > hour. He refused food all day, which was fine. In the evening, on our
> > walk. he had diarrhea. Also fine, whatever it was leaving his system.
> > Now three days have passed. He's eating, peeing, all fine. But poo is
> > thick, tar-like, which he squeezes out like toothpaste. I would think
> > after three days, he'd have a normal, well formed stool. It's so acid,
> > his butt is all raw.
> >
> > Any thoughts or suggestions?
> > Pamela
> > www.pet-wellness-update.com
> >
>

Messages in this topic (13)
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1e. Matisse: black stool
Posted by: "blechatlb@aol.com" blechatlb@aol.com blechatlb
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 6:03 pm ((PDT))

**Three days ago, after a meal of edible beef brisket bone, he had a very
severe attack of gastritis**
-------------------------------
Pamela,

Had he been fed beef in the past? Not many beef bones are edible....it may
be that he is having some trouble with the more dense beef bone, but I doubt
it is a serious problem. Do you alternate proteins with him? It sounded as
though you have been feeding another single protein and switched to beef - it
may be better to feed a variety all the time rather than feeding one protein
for an extended period of time and then switching to another. I apologize if I
misinterpreted your post.

TracyB

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Messages in this topic (13)
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2a. Re: Newbie who needs help
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 3:08 pm ((PDT))

Dawn,
Your pups are old enough, if you want you could feed them once a day, it's up to you and your preference and if you have the time, and what you feel they need. For me and mine, after six months, they are good at once a day, but mine are great danes.:)
For amounts, you feed what you want them to weigh, or what they should weigh, or what a good weight for that breed should be. Only you would know that. Guidelines are for weight, not age. If they get a little heavy, back off some. And so on. For the puppies, you feed what you want them to weigh, which is 2-3% of the body weight that they should weigh. Some dogs don't eat when they aren't hungry and that's ok too. So, don't worry if they don't eat all the food either.
We always recommend starting with chicken, it's cheap and easy to cut up into portions, and use it whole, that way you get the inside stuff too. You have your meat, bones and organs. Each dog gets all it needs with a chicken. But in your case you will probably divy up a chicken with your whole gang, so you might just buy a pound of liver or hearts and give them that once a week and your good for your organs. My dogs each get a half a chicken once a day, and the innards with the other half the next day, and that's the whole menu, meat, bone, and organs, all in a nice tiddy package.
Hope that helps.
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: Newbie who needs help
Posted by: "Dawn Teuscher" dteuscher@tx.rr.com dawn_rescue
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 3:32 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Andrea! Someone suggested I get Chicken rib cages. Is there enough
meat on them? Also, how much meat to bone should there be? One more-do I
feed the pups 2-3% of their adult weight?

Dawn


-------Original Message-------

From: Andrea
Date: 8/8/2007 10:00:35 AM
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Newbie who needs help

The general guideline is to feed the dogs 2-3% of their ideal adult
weight every day. I'd start with 2% and go from there. Yes, you sould
choose one protein to start with and not add anything new until their
systems have gotten used to it. Chicken is most common to start with
because it is cheap, easy to get, and has more bone than other
animals. I'd start the pups with two meals a day if that is how they
eat now. My pup switched himself to once a day around six months, and
the new pup seems to be on the same track. Let us know if you have
more questions.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dawn_rescue" <dteuscher@...> wrote:

> I just need to start them on one meat source for a little while? I
> don't want to not feed them enough. Are there guidelines by weight
> or age? Do you still follow the feed pups twice a day and adults
> once?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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2c. Re: Newbie who needs help
Posted by: "Dawn Teuscher" dteuscher@tx.rr.com dawn_rescue
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 3:32 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Jeni! What are good places to find whole chickens at good prices
other than grocery stores?

Dawn M. Teuscher


-------Original Message-------

From: John and Jeni Blackmon
Date: 8/8/2007 5:08:12 PM
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Newbie who needs help

Dawn,
Your pups are old enough, if you want you could feed them once a day, it's
up to you and your preference and if you have the time, and what you feel
they need. For me and mine, after six months, they are good at once a day,
but mine are great danes.:)
For amounts, you feed what you want them to weigh, or what they should weigh
or what a good weight for that breed should be. Only you would know that.
Guidelines are for weight, not age. If they get a little heavy, back off
some. And so on. For the puppies, you feed what you want them to weigh,
which is 2-3% of the body weight that they should weigh. Some dogs don't eat
when they aren't hungry and that's ok too. So, don't worry if they don't eat
all the food either.
We always recommend starting with chicken, it's cheap and easy to cut up
into portions, and use it whole, that way you get the inside stuff too. You
have your meat, bones and organs. Each dog gets all it needs with a chicken.
But in your case you will probably divy up a chicken with your whole gang,
so you might just buy a pound of liver or hearts and give them that once a
week and your good for your organs. My dogs each get a half a chicken once a
day, and the innards with the other half the next day, and that's the whole
menu, meat, bone, and organs, all in a nice tiddy package.
Hope that helps.
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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2d. Re: Newbie who needs help
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 9:16 pm ((PDT))

"Dawn Teuscher" <dteuscher@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Andrea! Someone suggested I get Chicken rib cages. Is there
enough
> meat on them? Also, how much meat to bone should there be? One
more-do I
> feed the pups 2-3% of their adult weight?
*****
I am not Andrea and she is quite capable of answering with wisdom and
humor but I gotta say: chicken rib cages?

Oh, I don't think so. There is hardly any meat on them. Processors
are very very good at getting profitable meat of dem bones. And then
to be able to sell these bare bones for even more money? Zounds,
talk about windfall profits.

The edible bones you buy should be as absolutely meaty as you can
find. Ideally you cannot see the bones beneath the flesh. Ideally
you cannot clearly discern just how the bone gones under all that
flesh. The closer you can get to these guidelines the better.

One look at rib cages will tell you there's not enough meat.

Your pups can comfortably handle as much as much 20% edible bone in
their diet. They can do with less. If you wind up buying these rib
cages (it often takes a few misguided purchases to understand the
meat/bone thing), please plan to feed them with plenty (and by that I
mean plenty) of meat. Heaps of the stuff. Piles.

Yes, feed based on their expected adult weight and adjust as needed.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: calcium/magnesium ratio????
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 5:08 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/8/2007 8:38:32 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Ivette
Casiano writes:

A friend made a comment and I'd like to know what you all think. Aren't dogs
evolving from their wolf level of evolution due to domestication? Therefore,
causing their digestive needs to be different?

****

Don't think they've had time to do much evolving in the short period of
history that pet food has been a cash cow for the manufacturers. About the same
length of time that humans have had to evolve into "thriving" like we do today
on McDonald's, etc.--if I remember the 50's as well as I think I do. :)

Lynda

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Messages in this topic (19)
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4a. New here... Would love some advice! Thanks :D
Posted by: "akitaprincess04" akitaprincess@msn.com akitaprincess04
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 5:09 pm ((PDT))

I have a 3 month old English Mastiff named Dallas and wanted to know
more about raw feeding. If anyone can just talk to me about it, that
would be great.
Such as: Pro's and Con's
Can I feed him kibble as well?
Will it make him aggressive?
and any other tips for me would be greatly appriciated! Thank
you soooo much everyone!
~*Ashley Smith*~

Messages in this topic (5)
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4b. Re: New here... Would love some advice! Thanks :D
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 5:36 pm ((PDT))

"akitaprincess04" <akitaprincess@...> wrote:

> I have a 3 month old English Mastiff named Dallas and wanted to
know
> more about raw feeding.

Well, you've come to the right place. But there are other right
places, too! Be sure to do some reading in our archives (accessible
at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/messages), but also check
out these sites:

http://rawfed.com/ (especially the "myths" pages)
http://www.rawlearning.com/
http://rawfeddogs.net/ (especially look thru the "Recipes" -- a
picture can be worth a thousand words)

> Such as: Pro's and Con's

Oh, my. Pros of raw feeding: healthier, happier pets; pets who
genuinely enjoy their meals and who can spend an hour entertaining
themselves with dinner; clean, white teeth without veterinary
intervention; radically decreased stool size ... I could go on, but
I'm sure others will want to chime in, so I don't want to take ALL
the positives!

Cons of raw feeding, now, let me see ... it can, at times, seem
costly. A bit of work finding appropriate food sources can generally
make feeding raw just as inexpensive as feeding ki**le. And then in
addition, raw fed dogs are generally healthier and require less
medical attention, so in my experience, it is in fact FAR more
economical. It can, at times, seem time-consuming or difficult. In
reality, it's neither, once you get the hang of it -- just a bit of
additional shopping, a bit of additional thought. Nothing onerous or
staggering. Really, I can't think of any other cons, at the moment.

> Can I feed him kibble as well?

You CAN do whatever you want to do -- he's your dog. Would I feed
ki**le? Gracious no -- after seeing how much my dog LOVES his raw
food, after seeing how it has improved the sparkle in his eyes, the
softness of his coat, his overall health and attitude, my goodness, I
would NOT want to interfere with providing my dog a species-
appropriate diet. No, thank you.

> Will it make him aggressive?

Again, gracious no. My Griffin -- coming on 4 years raw fed, and
somewhere in the neighborhood of 13 years old -- is the most
friendly, gentle, loveable dog you could hope to meet. (As if I'm
not biased, right?) Check out this face, if the link works:

http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/photos/view/72b6?
b=1&m=f&o=2 -- this pic was taken right after I interrupted Griff as
he worked on an evening treat stuffed in a Kong bone. He's anything
but aggressive!

Also, in case you haven't gotten thru all those links at the top of
the page yet, check out this "myth" and the associated pictures:
http://rawfed.com/myths/bloodthirsty.html and
http://rawfed.com/colbythekiller.html

Raw food IS a more valuable resource, and dogs who tend towards
resource-guarding may need additional training and guidance to behave
appropriately with this new and wonderful food -- but that is a
training issue, not a food issue.

> and any other tips for me would be greatly appriciated!

Hoo, well, they're a dime a dozen, here. I'd recommend surfing thru
the archives as long as you can manage, and keeping up with the daily
messages for a bit -- I'm sure you'll encounter PLENTY of tips.
Anything else you have specific questions about, just ask!

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (5)
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4c. Re: New here... Would love some advice! Thanks :D
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 6:35 pm ((PDT))

Feed your dog LOTS of meat, some bone and some organs
and your dog will THRIVE.
It is a species appropriate diet that helps our dogs
become the best dogs they can be.
I like to think of it sort of like this: imagine a
human who eats lush, organic fresh fruits and veggies
in abundance, a portion of meat about the size of your
fist and also some grains and beans. Imagine the
healthy skin, teeth, bones and attitude that this
person would have. That's what I equate my dog with
when eating a raw, prey style diet.
MUCH healthier than say the human who eats mc
donalds/burger king (fast food junk) EVERY SINGLE DAY.
Imagine the health issues that go along with that.
My guess is that our pets increased rates of cancer,
diabetes, peridontal disease etc is because they are
being fed a species inappropriate diet of kibble,
which is highly processed grains, corn or beat pulp as
filler, and meat and/or meat by-product (by-product
being the feathers or other non-usable protein of the
animals used in processing).

> Such as: Pro's and Con's

The ONLY con that I can think of (and it's not much of
a con, but a minor inconvenience in the beginning) is
when you first start feeding raw, it takes a little
time for our dogs to get used to real food, and so you
might have to deal with a few loose stools.
Really though, it's not that big a deal and it usually
lasts only about a week or two.
Once your dog gets used to eating raw meat, he will be
the happiest/healthiest dog and you will feel better
knowing that you are giving him the best.
Oh yah, and maybe one other con might be that when you
take this step, you might find yourself defending your
choices to people either about the raw meat itself or
the "salmonella/e-coli". It's all scare tactics and
you REALLY have to stand your ground and KNOW that
what you are doing is the right thing for your dog.

>Can I feed him kibble as well?

You can, but my question would be WHY? There is
NOTHING in kibble that he needs if you are feeding him
appropriately with LOTS of MEAT, some bone and some
organs. If you ask me, you're only hurting him more by
feeding him kibble.
When I first went raw, I had bought a bag of organic
kibble. I changed my mind and started my dog on raw.
The bag sat in my kitchen for three weeks before i
decided to sell it to my parents (and of course, I
used the money to buy raw meat for the dog!)
My dog is lean, beautiful, and has the whitest teeth I
have ever seen on a dog.

>Will it make him aggressive?
As in "he's had the taste of blood"? HAHAHAHA!
Doubtful, VERY VERY doubtful. There's roughly 9000+
people on this list, and if I doubt very much we would
all support a raw, prey model diet if our dogs were
blood thirsty because of it.

> and any other tips for me would be greatly
> appriciated! Thank

Tip #1) Go out and buy a whole chicken. Feed it to
your dog in the morning. Let him eat his fill then put
the chicken in the fridge until the next meal.
Continue like this for about a week or two to make
sure that he is digesting the chicken alright.
Then, try introducing a new protein, like pork or
beef. Try little pieces at first, then gradually
increase.
Eventually add in some liver (some people's dogs HATE
liver so if your dog has a problem with it and won't
eat it, try freezing little pieces of it. My dog loves
frozen liver-sicles!
Also, keep in mind that liver and organs can cause
diarrhea if given in pieces that are too big, so start
off with about a teaspoon and gradually increase.

Tip#2) Donate your current bag of kibble to a shelter
or something and don't look back.

Tiip #3) Have fun and enjoy feeding your dog a
healthy, balanced diet of species-appropriate food!

Nathalie

Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com

Messages in this topic (5)
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4d. Re: New here... Would love some advice! Thanks :D
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 7:25 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "akitaprincess04"
<akitaprincess@...> wrote:
>
> If anyone can just talk to me about it, that
> would be great.

Read the book "Work Wonders" by Dr. Tom Lonsdale. You can find it
at http://www.rawmeatybones.com

You can download it in PDF format
for free. Just click on the picture of the book on the main page.

A few informative web sites are:
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm (My web page)
http://rawfeddogs.net/

--- be sure and check the recipes page.
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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4e. Re: New here... Would love some advice! Thanks :D
Posted by: "pigasus718" pigasus718@yahoo.com pigasus718
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 9:03 pm ((PDT))

Hi Ashley,
I, too, have an English Mastiff puppy.
His name is Hoss and he is 10 wks old.
He was weaned straight from mom to raw.
He has never had kibble. His breeder is
a raw feeder and has 7 beautiful happy
adults. I too, am new to raw feeding, but
have been so impressed with what I have
seen and read that I have also switched
my 12yr old mini schnauzer and 2yr old
shih tzu. No problems so far and they
were never this excited at feeding time
when they were eating kibble.

It will not make him aggressive and
switching Dallas to raw is probably the
greatest gift you can give him other than
your love.
Just start slow, be consistent, and don't
get overzealous and feed too many different
kinds of meat at first, until he adjusts.
My recommendation is to read, read, and read
some more. Start with the links you were
sent when you signed up for this group.
Then read the archives. Any possible problem
or topic concerning raw feeding has been addressed
there. Then, if you have more questions, there
are really great people on this list that are
more than happy to share their expertise with
you.
You have to think of this as a natural process
with balance achieved over time rather than
an unnatural product from a bag that guarantees
balance with just a few scoops.
Best of luck with your "Gentle Giant"

Robyn

Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. Re: Jack/Chi Mix Acts Like He's Afraid Of New Foods!
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 6:02 pm ((PDT))

Hi Genell,

It might help if you give more specific info such as exactly what
you've tried for a few days and what the response has been. What foods
DOES he like? What does he do that makes you think he's confused or
afraid?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ahomebasedbiz"
<workathomefirms@...> wrote:
>
> I've been feeding raw for about a year now and while all of my dogs
> love the diet,my 10 year old Jack Russell/Chihuahua mix acts as
though
> he is confused and sometimes even afraid of new foods.

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: How many lbs. can you fit into a standard refrigerator?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 6:02 pm ((PDT))

Hi Katie,

I don't have a chest freezer (I have an upright), but I noticed when I
was looking at freezers in the store, that some (all?) of them had
stickers on them that said how many pounds of food should fit in them.
I also did some searching online and they had lots of details for each
one--they might list that piece of info there. Just look up a top
brand or a store and go from there.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Katie" <kcrockett@...> wrote:
>
> I am REALLY wanting a chest freezer . . . they come in so many
different sizes though . . . can
> anyone tell me about how many pounds of frozen meat fits into ANY
size? (

Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. pulling out of pancreatitis
Posted by: "yarmey2002" yarmey@coast.ucsd.edu yarmey2002
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 7:24 pm ((PDT))

hi everyone!

i used to hang out with you all the time, this list helped me switch my two senior sibes
over 4+ years ago now and it was the best thing we could have done. unfortunately work
got in the way of all of the emails and i haven't been by in a long while! i have been trying
to pay it forward though, i am the san diego site host for the socal co-op, i have been
helping a friend start a raw food business and generally trying to spread the word. i still
have endless admiration and gratitude for all the list does, and has done for my pups.

i am hoping i can benefit from the list once again. my 13ish yr old girl is currently at the
ER vets with pancreatitis, at this point there could be many instigators (her health is
generally fairly fragile) so it isn't directly linked to another condition yet. i have been
reading up in the archives about how to help her once she is on the other side (more
frequent smaller meals, raw pancreas, pancreatic enzymes, lower-fat meals, etc), but
unfortunately she took a turn for the worse today when they tried to feed her as a last step
before sending her home so she is back on the IVs. at the moment i am just trying to
figure out how to get her past the emergency stage and back home. they gave her boiled
chicken and rice and she didn't do well. she has never done well with grains to begin with
though, i am wondering if raw chicken or tongue or tripe or ??? would be a better option
to get her system working again? do i just need to wait this out or can i do something to
help?

any help/insight/advice would be great, this has been an overwhelming surprise and i am
googling like mad only to get conflicting info. i can't get individual emails but i am back
to digest and will be checking back to the web messages, i apologize in advance for delays
in reply! thanks again so very much for all you do!

lynn, shanti and miko
san diego, ca

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: pulling out of pancreatitis
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 9:27 pm ((PDT))

"yarmey2002" <yarmey@...> wrote:
>i am wondering if raw chicken or tongue or tripe or ??? would be a
better option
> to get her system working again? do i just need to wait this out
or can i do something to
> help?
*****
With a 13 year old dog, I would be looking beyond the basic diagnosis
to why--what else is going on that may have screwed up the pancreas?

If after blood work you and the vet are comfortable with the notion
that this episode is a one-off and "simply" related to too much fat,
or too much food or something else dietary, then probably you can
start her off on any bland, boneless, boring and beige food. Chicken
certainly fill the bill, so does whiting or pollock or cod. If the
green tripe you buy is not fatty (I don't consider greentripe.com a
fatty product) you can try that. I think tongue would be too fatty.

Start slow and feed lean and consider feeding several small meals.
There's no point to grains and of course kibble ain't gonna do it.

My concern is that there's a deeper problem that is causing the
pancreas to malfunction.

Good luck.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: E vitamin
Posted by: "Shirley" ssthunderpony@yahoo.com ssthunderpony
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 7:29 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "beaglegoose" <Beaglegoose@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nathalie Poulin
> <poulin_nathalie@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > > I am giving 8000 mg of fich oil. How muche
> > > vitamin E do I add.
> > > *****
> > > I vote none.
> > > Especially if you are feeding capsules.
> > > Chris O
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I almost never post but do read most posts and I must disagree
> here. I work in the health food industry (15 years) and any time
you
> add fish oils you MUST supplement with vitamin E. Fish oil oxidizes
> very easily and will deplete your E. I would dose depending on
weight
> and I would also do a mixed tocopherol and tocotrienal. See study
> below from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. Mary,
Barkley
> and Boston
>
> Fish oil and vitamin E go together
> BELTSVILLE, MARYLAND. Fish oils are beneficial in the prevention of
> cancer and cardiovascular disease. They do, however, oxidize very
> easily and therefore add to the oxidant stress on the body. An
> experiment was recently carried out by the U.S. Department of
> Agriculture to see if an increased intake of vitamin E could
> counteract this detrimental effect of fish oils. Forty men aged 32
to
############
First of all, these numbers hardly constitute a study to draw
conclusions from.

Secondly and mostly ........ We are talking about CARNIVORES here.
Wolves do not take vitamin E. We supplement Fish body oils to make
for the lack of Omegas found in meat from grain fed animals.

Peace,
Shirley

Messages in this topic (9)
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8b. Re: E vitamin
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 7:30 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "beaglegoose" <Beaglegoose@...>
wrote:
>
> > I work in the health food industry (15 years) and any time you
> add fish oils you MUST supplement with vitamin E.

*** How many fish oil supplements do NOT contain vitamin E? Are you
saying one needs to add vitamin E in addition to the vitamin E already
added to the product? Further, if the fish oil does not have vitamin E
added, are you saying that the fish oil oxidizes inside the body
during digestion, or are you saying that adding vitamin E will
counteract the oxidation that already occured in the package?

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (9)
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8c. Re: E vitamin
Posted by: "Shirley" ssthunderpony@yahoo.com ssthunderpony
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 9:00 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "beaglegoose" <Beaglegoose@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nathalie Poulin
> <poulin_nathalie@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > > I am giving 8000 mg of fich oil. How muche
> > > vitamin E do I add.
> > > *****
> > > I vote none.
> > > Especially if you are feeding capsules.
> > > Chris O
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I almost never post but do read most posts and I must disagree
> here. I work in the health food industry (15 years) and any time you
> add fish oils you MUST supplement with vitamin E.

############ Ooopsie , forgot to say that 99% of the people out here
would not know the diference between a good mixed natural tocopherol
and a synthetic E which is most commonly found.

~Shirley

Messages in this topic (9)
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8d. Re: E vitamin
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 9:03 pm ((PDT))

I imagine when you say the health food industry you
are talking about HUMAN health and not that of a
carnivore?

Nathalie

> >
> I work in the health food industry (15 years) and
any time you
> add fish oils you MUST supplement with vitamin E.
>

Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com

Messages in this topic (9)
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9. I need your honest experience on this..
Posted by: "lar07911" lar07911@yahoo.com lar07911
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 9:03 pm ((PDT))

I have been lurking on this group and also doing my own research. I
know the dangers are small, but have any of you had serious problems
such as bones blocking the digestive tract or a forced trip to the vet
because of raw feeding? I want to hear any and all issues you have
had. I know this is a pro-raw feeding group, but I want to hear all
sides. I am not worried about the loose stool issue that is possible.
I am holding off starting raw feeding until I purchase a large freezer
to make it more economical. Feedback welcome please! Thanks,
Laura

Messages in this topic (1)
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10. First time question
Posted by: "redwinejoy" redwine1@windstream.net redwinejoy
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 9:03 pm ((PDT))

I just started my sheltland sheepdog on the raw diet yesterday. I read alot before I began and
started with a chicken leg/thigh piece. He loved it. It seemed textbook to watch him eat.
Late today I gave him a chicken breast. Again, he seemed to love it. My concern is that he
has not pooped since the first meal yesterday. He normally is very regular. I am probably
worrying about nothing but is it normal for them to slow up at first. He is drinking and
seems to feel well. Thanks, Joy p.s. he is a large shelty (30 lbs.)

Messages in this topic (1)
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