[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11883

There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: dog won't eat liver & ?? re: bones...
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: chicken quarters
From: linoleum5017

3a. Re: Grocery chicken and Turkey
From: carnesbill

4a. Re: [rawfeeding} loose stool
From: blechatlb@aol.com

5a. Just started yesterday
From: Jess Navarro

6a. Re: How many lbs. can you fit into a standard refrigerator?
From: Katie

7a. calcium/magnesium ratio????
From: Katie
7b. Re: calcium/magnesium ratio????
From: Daisy Foxworth

8a. Re: Labels on meat
From: Greta Hill
8b. Re: Labels on meat
From: Greta Hill
8c. Re: Labels on meat
From: Morledzep@aol.com
8d. Re: Labels on meat
From: deep_ocean_of_sorrow

9a. Canned Salmon & Sardines Question
From: patrickmb2@aol.com
9b. Re: Canned Salmon & Sardines Question
From: Erica Mills
9c. Re: Canned Salmon & Sardines Question
From: grace grasso

10a. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
From: diannem200400
10b. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
From: grace grasso

11a. allergies?? (was - Re: Duck)
From: Katie

12. new dogs to raw with runny poos
From: faintatheart

13a. Lethargic pup
From: Naomi Bjorgan
13b. Re: Lethargic pup
From: grace grasso

14a. Re: stinky breath?
From: deep_ocean_of_sorrow

Messages
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1a. Re: dog won't eat liver & ?? re: bones...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Aug 5, 2007 7:46 pm ((PDT))

Terri Leist <qahri@...> wrote:
>The pickier eater won't eat liver or kidney. They get heart, but
that's the only organ they get. Is heart enough? I can very, very
easily get heart, sometimes free, sometimes just $1 for each heart.
*****
That's great because heart is a terrific red meat. But it's not
liver and liver is essential. You'll have to rise to the occasion.
I recommend you browse the list archives; liver aversion is a common
topic.

now I am trying to figure out which bones are the best. I know
that chicken bones are fine, & rib bones w/ lots of meat.
*****
Beef ribs bones don't have lots of meat, at best they have an
adequate amount of meat on them. If beef ribs are difficult for your
dogs to gnaw on, they offer the same potential for damage as other
beef bones do. They are not without danger.

If you don't want to feed pork bones, and chicken bones are the only
bones you truth, then feed chicken as the RMB and feed plenty of non-
chicken meaty meals.

What about pork loin & pork shoulder bones? I have a store that
usually has pork loins on sale for $.89, so they are easy to get!
*****
Neither loin nor shoulder bones should be promlematic.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: chicken quarters
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Sun Aug 5, 2007 7:50 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "esmolensky" <esmolensky@...> wrote:
>
> Will chicken quarters fulfill the meat/bone ratio to for now a 7536
> mos. old boeboel pup? Or is that way to small portions. I just
happen
> to see frozen quarters for $5.90 for 10#bag. I think this is cheap.
> Most times i can't find whole chicken under 1 dollar.
>
> Emil and Reagan
>
E & R,

I had to get my calculator out to determine the age of your pup - who
is, I'm afraid to tell you, 628 years old! Don't know if you're being
funny, or made a typo. (Hoping for the latter.) In any case,
anything under $1/lb. is a great deal by the list standard-bearers.
Again, the calculator reports .59/lb. That's great! (Assuming those
price numbers are not typos, as well.) Go for it.

Lynne

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: Grocery chicken and Turkey
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Aug 5, 2007 7:50 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> So,I was going to bag 1 piece into zip bag but,noticed
> later that the chicken had water and salt and 1 something else
> I cannot pronounce/remember very well..so,I ended up save all
> for me to cook.

The "something else" is probably Carrageenan. It is a harmless
seaweed extract.

I have been feeding raw for 4 1/2 years. I feed chicken at least
two times a week and most weeks its 3 times. I feed chicken
enhanced with saline solution sometimes. I feed chicken ehnanced
with broth sometimes. I feed chicken that is not enhanced
sometimes. I feed chicken with carrageenan in it sometimes. I
never even look at the package when I buy it. I can tell no
difference in my dogs nor how much they like it nor any adverse
effect between all of them.

I eat the same chicken quarters I feed my dogs. I can't tell the
difference between the different kinds.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: [rawfeeding} loose stool
Posted by: "blechatlb@aol.com" blechatlb@aol.com blechatlb
Date: Sun Aug 5, 2007 8:29 pm ((PDT))

**As of yesterday he has had loose stools and I have no idea why. I haven't
even started the diet yet. He got his second booster for parvo yesterday and I
was wondering would that had made his stomach upset**
-----------------------------------

Girami,

It is not uncommon for dogs to feel ill after vaccination. I would be very
careful about what vaccines you are getting for your dog. I would assume he
was also vaccinated for distemper at the same time?

TracyB

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Messages in this topic (8)
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5a. Just started yesterday
Posted by: "Jess Navarro" jess.hamway@gmail.com financialcongratulatory
Date: Sun Aug 5, 2007 8:29 pm ((PDT))

My dog also vomited when I switched him to raw, in his case it was because
he gulped it down too fast. Freezing it solved the problem!

Jessica

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: How many lbs. can you fit into a standard refrigerator?
Posted by: "Katie" kcrockett@mac.com kcrockettla7
Date: Sun Aug 5, 2007 10:15 pm ((PDT))

I am REALLY wanting a chest freezer . . . they come in so many different sizes though . . . can
anyone tell me about how many pounds of frozen meat fits into ANY size? (If i know for one
size, i can guesstimate other sizes!!)

thanks!

katie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "temy1102" <tammy.a.jp@...> wrote:
>
> I did! 100+ pounds!! I'm a little scared.... but excited. We also
> have a little chest fridge that keeps thing just barely above frozen,
> so I figure what doesn't fit can go in there. And if I'm left with
> piles of rapidly defrosting raw meat, well then, it's an emergency
> situation and I will just HAVE to buy one of those coveted chest freezers!

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. calcium/magnesium ratio????
Posted by: "Katie" kcrockett@mac.com kcrockettla7
Date: Sun Aug 5, 2007 10:17 pm ((PDT))

I've been feeding raw for a few months now, and am very happy.

HOWEVER (here it comes!!) . . . I have a friend (she's a vet tech and her husband is a vet) -
who thinks I am killing my dogs.
We've talked ad nauseum, and have kind of agreed to disagree.

Here's my question . . . she is INSISTENT that I at least "work" with a vet on my dog's diet . . .
she claims that raw is ok, as long as I'm careful about the ratio of calcium to magnesium -
has anyone ever heard of this?

I'm guessing it's nonsense . . . but, there's that little niggling doubt . . .

...katie

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: calcium/magnesium ratio????
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 5:50 am ((PDT))

I'd suggest a counterclaim. How about asking her what the exact ratio
of calcium/magnesium is that she feeds herself, her husband, her kids
if she has any. No reason you should have to be that exacting for a
pet when it makes so little difference for a human when a relatively
balanced diet is followed. Does she feed her animals no treats
whatsoever, only what is in the perfectly balanced meal she gives
them? It's all so silly.

Daisy

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: Labels on meat
Posted by: "Greta Hill" GretaHill@aol.com sunstate23
Date: Sun Aug 5, 2007 10:17 pm ((PDT))

It's supposed to but Winco's pork is usually repackaged, not processor
labeling.>>

Okay, I'll ask before I buy. All the Farmer John's pork at my Winco is
enhanced - but they try and hide it with a teeny label in gold with
white writing - very hard to read! My Winco was carrying some 100%
natural pork, but stopped. I liked being able to run in there and pick
up a few things - but with all the pork being enhanced, and one of my
girls not tolerating beef heart anymore, about all I can buy from there
now is chicken quarters. Dang.

Thanks :)

Greta

Messages in this topic (8)
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8b. Re: Labels on meat
Posted by: "Greta Hill" GretaHill@aol.com sunstate23
Date: Sun Aug 5, 2007 10:18 pm ((PDT))

never believe what a winco employee says.. none of them are trained,
they haven't a clue>>

LOL, I figured that one out pretty quick! :)

It really seems like they should have to tell us what is in there
besides meat! I guess I'll forget the local grocery stores since the
meat isn't as good as what I can buy from the co-op and local
suppliers.

Thanks.

Greta

Messages in this topic (8)
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8c. Re: Labels on meat
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Aug 5, 2007 10:30 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/5/2007 9:18:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
GretaHill@aol.com writes:

It really seems like they should have to tell us what is in there
besides meat! I guess I'll forget the local grocery stores since the
meat isn't as good as what I can buy from the co-op and local
suppliers.

Greta,

dont give up on the grocery stores.. just watch for deals when they come up
and stock up when they come.

Watch the labels, and you can scare a Winco manager into putting the proper
labels on the meat by saying that you're going to call Weights and Measures.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (8)
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8d. Re: Labels on meat
Posted by: "deep_ocean_of_sorrow" deep_ocean_of_sorrow@yahoo.com deep_ocean_of_sorrow
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 4:59 am ((PDT))

I've recently bought ground beef from Costco;

is their meat enchanced? I didn't really think about anyone from the
grocery's (or wholesales.) adding any salt or flavorings or whatever
before... so I didn't really check the package/sticker.

I think they grind the meat there, so would they be adding things
there??

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "Greta Hill" GretaHill@ wrote:
> >
> > Does it have to say on the label if anything has been added to the
> > meat? My local Winco carries pork that has a generic label that
> doesn't
> > say anything, not minimally processed or enhanced. When I ask, the
> guys
> > that work there give me different answers. Thanks :)
> *****
> It's supposed to but Winco's pork is usually repackaged, not
> processor labeling.

Messages in this topic (8)
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9a. Canned Salmon & Sardines Question
Posted by: "patrickmb2@aol.com" patrickmb2@aol.com misspat_00
Date: Sun Aug 5, 2007 10:17 pm ((PDT))

I've opportunity to purchase two cases of pink salmon (24 to the case) for
$22 a case. This does say that salt is added. Each can has 14 ounces so that is
really a good price. Is this salmon all right for my dogs or should I pass it
by? I'm wondering about canned sardines as well. Not that I saw any for a
good price but know from experience that my smallest dog LOVES them. Little
rascal got on a table and grabbed some a few weeks ago. But she sure doesn't go
after thawed frozen sardines. Thanks ~~Pat

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9b. Re: Canned Salmon & Sardines Question
Posted by: "Erica Mills" millser25@yahoo.com millser25
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 4:58 am ((PDT))

I offer canned sardines to my dog and cats on occasion, but only in small amounts. I might give each cat one sardine hunk and the dog gets the other two (usually 4 hunks per can for the brand I buy). But, I only feed this once or twice a month or so, as a special treat. These canned meats would be fine as an occasional treat, but you really don't want to make the the focus of the meal. The canned meats have been cooked and additive (salt, in your case) have been added, so they don't really fit in with the prey model or the raw feeding perspective.
If you do feed the canned meats with salt added, make sure that your pet has plenty of access to water for the next day or two, as salt can increase their need for water.
Erica

patrickmb2@aol.com wrote: I've opportunity to purchase two cases of pink salmon (24 to the case) for
$22 a case. This does say that salt is added. Each can has 14 ounces so that is
really a good price. Is this salmon all right for my dogs or should I pass it
by? I'm wondering about canned sardines as well. Not that I saw any for a
good price but know from experience that my smallest dog LOVES them. Little
rascal got on a table and grabbed some a few weeks ago. But she sure doesn't go
after thawed frozen sardines. Thanks ~~Pat

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9c. Re: Canned Salmon & Sardines Question
Posted by: "grace grasso" gracegrasso@yahoo.com gracegrasso
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 5:50 am ((PDT))

Hi Patrick,
Sardines are wonderful as long as they are packed in water.............the oil can be rancid. Preferrable without salt.
Grace

patrickmb2@aol.com wrote:
I've opportunity to purchase two cases of pink salmon (24 to the case) for
$22 a case. This does say that salt is added. Each can has 14 ounces so that is
really a good price. Is this salmon all right for my dogs or should I pass it
by? I'm wondering about canned sardines as well. Not that I saw any for a
good price but know from experience that my smallest dog LOVES them. Little
rascal got on a table and grabbed some a few weeks ago. But she sure doesn't go
after thawed frozen sardines. Thanks ~~Pat

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10a. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Sun Aug 5, 2007 10:19 pm ((PDT))

-Thanks Chris, Julie and Crystal. I started her on 4 1200mg gelcaps a
day and we've worked up to 8 gelcaps a day. No sign of diarrhea yet.
We've only been on this high dose for about 2 weeks; so I guess
patience is in order to see whether it addresses her allergy issues.

Dianne M.
-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> If you are using a "single" strength (180mgEPA/120mgDHA) product, you
> would give one 1000mg capsule per 10lb of dog so yes 12 capsules
would
> be correct.

Messages in this topic (8)
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10b. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
Posted by: "grace grasso" gracegrasso@yahoo.com gracegrasso
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 5:50 am ((PDT))

Why don't you try 3V caps. They have omega 3's as well as vit a, e, and d.

Grace

diannem200400 <diannem200400@yahoo.com> wrote:
-Thanks Chris, Julie and Crystal. I started her on 4 1200mg gelcaps a
day and we've worked up to 8 gelcaps a day. No sign of diarrhea yet.
We've only been on this high dose for about 2 weeks; so I guess
patience is in order to see whether it addresses her allergy issues.

Dianne M.
-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> If you are using a "single" strength (180mgEPA/120mgDHA) product, you
> would give one 1000mg capsule per 10lb of dog so yes 12 capsules
would
> be correct.

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11a. allergies?? (was - Re: Duck)
Posted by: "Katie" kcrockett@mac.com kcrockettla7
Date: Sun Aug 5, 2007 10:20 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

this makes a ton of sense . . . not sure where to go with this . . .

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, ginny wilken <gwilken@...> wrote:
>
> Boy, sure sounds like hocus-pocus sometimes, but when you think about
> it, it makes sense. When people get headaches or allergies all the
> time, they are not separate events; it's easy to see that they are
> somehow weak and vulnerable. That vulnerability is not cast in stone,
> and we and our dogs need not die of all the big and little symptoms
> it generates.

Messages in this topic (21)
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12. new dogs to raw with runny poos
Posted by: "faintatheart" e.l.o.i.s.e@sbcglobal.net faintatheart
Date: Sun Aug 5, 2007 10:21 pm ((PDT))

hello,
I have been feeding my two dogs (14lbs and 20 lbs) raw for 2 weeks.
I started with turkey and have just given two meals of pork. the meat i have been feeding is
not enhanced in any way. and I haven't feed anything but raw for the two weeks.
my dogs are having a lot of issues with runny poo... will these firm up over time? is it just the
switch?
i feel like I am feeding enough bone.. but I am also wondering of good non-chicken sources
for bones...does anyone have suggestions? i am going to the market tomorrow to look for
pork neck too.
my dogs seem to be reacting to the new diet.... they are very itchy and there ears seem very
close to an ear infection with dark and gooey wax..not the clear like before...is this common
in the change? or do you think something is wrong?

thanks in advance for any suggestions. they would be much appreciated.
eloise

Messages in this topic (1)
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13a. Lethargic pup
Posted by: "Naomi Bjorgan" ngbjorgan@gmail.com ngbjorgan
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 4:57 am ((PDT))

Hi again,

Our lab pup who is about 3mos old has been rather lethargic. We got her
August 2nd and began her right away on raw food. She was on kibble
prior. Her stools are mix diarrhea and firm. She sleeps a lot! Is it
because she's growing so much right now, or could it be because of the
heat here in the Philippines, or could it be her adjustment to raw
food? I guess the other option is all of the above too?

I am concerned if we may have been overzealous in feeding her too much
variety in the beginning. So far in the few days she's been with us
she's eaten chicken, chicken gizzards, liver and heart, pork, beef and
one fish. We hucked eggs in one of her dishes when they had broken en
route to home from the market.

Could this be part of the problem? She is very happy and doesn't seem
to complain about any tummy trouble. She just sleeps a lot.

Please let us know if there is anything we should be changing.

Thanks for all your helpful wisdom and advice.

Blessings,

Naomi

Messages in this topic (2)
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13b. Re: Lethargic pup
Posted by: "grace grasso" gracegrasso@yahoo.com gracegrasso
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 5:50 am ((PDT))

Hi Naomi,
Has your puppy been vaccinated lately? A calm puppy may be blood deficient. I do not know what you are feeding your puppy. Try Call of the Wild suppliments which will replace the calcuim and 3-v caps which support omega-3's.with your ground meat, fish and vegetables and see how he does. This has supported my lab puppy.

Inspite of what some think dogs need more that just meat.

Grace
Naomi Bjorgan <ngbjorgan@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi again,

Our lab pup who is about 3mos old has been rather lethargic. We got her
August 2nd and began her right away on raw food. She was on kibble
prior. Her stools are mix diarrhea and firm. She sleeps a lot! Is it
because she's growing so much right now, or could it be because of the
heat here in the Philippines, or could it be her adjustment to raw
food? I guess the other option is all of the above too?

I am concerned if we may have been overzealous in feeding her too much
variety in the beginning. So far in the few days she's been with us
she's eaten chicken, chicken gizzards, liver and heart, pork, beef and
one fish. We hucked eggs in one of her dishes when they had broken en
route to home from the market.

Could this be part of the problem? She is very happy and doesn't seem
to complain about any tummy trouble. She just sleeps a lot.

Please let us know if there is anything we should be changing.

Thanks for all your helpful wisdom and advice.

Blessings,

Naomi

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14a. Re: stinky breath?
Posted by: "deep_ocean_of_sorrow" deep_ocean_of_sorrow@yahoo.com deep_ocean_of_sorrow
Date: Mon Aug 6, 2007 4:58 am ((PDT))

Thank you, I think I will try that baby wipes thing you have mentioned.
(if i can go buy them..lol)it might also help with my dog's yellow-ish
stains around his mouth, which should be white.

I do feed him bones, its just that I think his plaque has gotten worse?
I've never taken that brushing the dog's teeth really seriously, only
brushing once a week or so. But I guess after three years of living, he
might need some vet-teeth cleaning help.(I'll ask about this the next
vet visit...its a wellness plan thing and the visit is free, i don't
think the teeth cleaning is though)

I feed my dog meat with bones about every 3 meals (so one whole day
consists of 2 meals, maybe the next morning i would give him bones.)
cause I don't usually get meaty-bones that regularly.
Right now, for meaty-bones, we have some goat spine-parts (I'm not
really sure what part it is of the goat, the butcher cut it in small
piece about the size of a fist, I'm assuming it is the spin-part..) and
also beef ribs that were cut vetically..( the bones are cut straight
through, so its not really thick at all. just 3 pieces of bones the size
of your thumbs in a line on the beef).
All the other meats I give my dog is ground or liver or the smaller
pieces of turkey..etc. nothing too hard.

I have gotten turkey drumsticks before, but I didn't really want to feed
that to my dog cause it was foster farms... (I don't really like foster
farms.. they have unnatural chicken and other poultry....if you know
what I mean) and they only have three, so it only lasted about 3 1/2
meals.

what other meaty-bones would you recommend?(and where would I be able to
buy this? ) I want to stay away from the usual meats like chicken,
pork, and beef. They're too common, and have lots of wonky diseases, so
I'm kind of scared of using those meats.. (even though I do use beef, I
don't really want to. but my dog loves beef the most...)

Kate

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "natgs" <natgs@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Kate,
>
> I have a hairy beastie also (briard). Occasionally, he gets food stuck
> in his mustache and beard. I simply pull whatever is stuck out. As for
> the raw 'juices', I found that he gets rid of them himself when he
> drinks from the bowl. I try to change the water in his bowl after each
> drink to make sure that it stays clean for drinking/face wash.

> One other thing. If you have bone in your dog's diet, and you said
> that you do, there's really no need to brush his/her teeth. Chewing on
> the bone will work the same if not better. Just make sure that you
> include the bones that take time to chew/gnaw on.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Natalya

Messages in this topic (3)
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