[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11890

There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: E vitamin
From: costrowski75
1b. Re: E vitamin
From: Nathalie Poulin

2a. Re: new-many questions
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: new-many questions
From: temy1102
2c. New to this
From: John Connolly
2d. Re: New to this
From: Morledzep@aol.com
2e. Re: new-many questions
From: Nathalie Poulin
2f. Re: New to this
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

3a. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
From: ginny wilken

4a. Re: ecoli and samonella
From: Morledzep@aol.com
4b. Re: ecoli and samonella
From: linoleum5017

5a. Re: 13 week old puppies with diarrhea and vomiting
From: Morledzep@aol.com
5b. Re: 13 week old puppies with diarrhea and vomiting
From: Ivette Casiano
5c. Re: 13 week old puppies with diarrhea and vomiting
From: Ivette Casiano

6a. Re: Just started yesterday
From: Morledzep@aol.com

7.1. Re: Intro
From: linoleum5017

8. Next new meat? (first week on raw)
From: eyed_blue

9a. Re: calcium/magnesium ratio????
From: Katie
9b. Re: calcium/magnesium ratio????
From: Ivette Casiano

10a. Veggie lovers (Was Re: 13 week old puppies with diarrhea and vomitin
From: Pi

11. diarrhea/Abscess/runny eyes
From: Ivette Casiano

12.1. Re: Fish
From: Ivette Casiano

Messages
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1a. Re: E vitamin
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 7:21 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rbmc1231937" <rbmc1231937@...>
wrote:
>
> I am giving 8000 mg of fich oil. How muche vitamin E do I add.
*****
I vote none.
Especially if you are feeding capsules.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: E vitamin
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 4:17 am ((PDT))

> > I am giving 8000 mg of fich oil. How muche
> vitamin E do I add.
> *****
> I vote none.
> Especially if you are feeding capsules.
> Chris O
>
>

I second the motion.

Nathalie

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Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: new-many questions
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 7:24 pm ((PDT))

"temy1102" <tammy.a.jp@...> wrote:
>
> my ? is what is beef cheek -muscle?
> - i don't know, i'm wondering the same thing myself.
*****
Believe it or else, it's beef cheek. All that flesh on both sides of a
cow's considerable head. It's muscle and it's tough.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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2b. Re: new-many questions
Posted by: "temy1102" tammy.a.jp@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 8:30 pm ((PDT))

organs are fine whenever you want. you could feed a whole bunch once
a week, but you might end up with a pile of diarrhea. or in my case,
a dog running around squirting other dogs with liver-colored,
liver-smelling diarrhea. and the other dogs trying desperately to eat it.

tammy & grover

Messages in this topic (7)
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2c. New to this
Posted by: "John Connolly" jonpolcon@yahoo.com jonpolcon
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 9:22 pm ((PDT))

Hello,

I'm just in the process of switching to raw. My
understanding is that the best raw diet is based on
RMBs, with some offal. Is there any kind of consensus
on how much offal is necessary, what kinds of organs,
and how much, etc?

Anything else I should be feeding other than RMBs and
offal?

My dog is a shepherd/chow mix, about 60 pounds.

Also, does anyone use raw minced beef by itself?

Thanks in advance,
John C.

Messages in this topic (7)
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2d. Re: New to this
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 11:38 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/7/2007 8:22:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jonpolcon@yahoo.com writes:

Anything else I should be feeding other than RMBs and
offal?

My dog is a shepherd/chow mix, about 60 pounds.

Also, does anyone use raw minced beef by itself?

John,

a lot depends on your definition of RMB. If you mean huge hunks o meat
conveniently wrapped around an edible bone you almost can't tell is there.. then
you really don't need more than RMB's and some organ meat.

IF, on the other hand, you're talking about Bones with some raw meat attached
then you're going to end up having to feed more hunky meaty meat and organs
to make up for the amount of bone you're feeding.

the convenient and APPROXIMATE ratios would be 10% edible bone (chicken,
turkey, pork, lamb, goat, emu, duck.. etc, not huge dense tooth breaking bones
like beef femurs), 10% organs (including liver, kidney, spleen, pancreas, and
other goodies..) and 80% everything else.. like meaty meat, skin, fat, connective
tissue.. etc.

think of these ratios as MEAT with a little bone and some organs. NOT bones
with meat on them and organ meats.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (7)
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2e. Re: new-many questions
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 4:16 am ((PDT))

I don't know if it's because I'm pregnant, or if it's
because that's just NASTY... but that seriously made
me gag!
Your stories always make me laugh!

Nathalie

--- temy1102 <tammy.a.jp@gmail.com> wrote:

> organs are fine whenever you want. you could feed a
> whole bunch once
> a week, but you might end up with a pile of
> diarrhea. or in my case,
> a dog running around squirting other dogs with
> liver-colored,
> liver-smelling diarrhea. and the other dogs trying
> desperately to eat it.
>
> tammy & grover

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Messages in this topic (7)
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2f. Re: New to this
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 4:17 am ((PDT))

This site usually promotes the prey model diet, which is the whole animal, like the whole chicken, not just RMB, and offal. Offal and RMB isn't enough, you should read up on the sites info that you got when you first signed up here, it will help, and try the book, by Tom Lonsdale, you can get it online, free. At www.rawmeatybones.com
On organs, all organs are usually good, it's what you can get where you are at, at a good price for the animal and what it will eat. Organs are not an everyday meal either. Do some more reading, and keep going your on the right track. Keep it up.
And welcome.
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (7)
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3a. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 7:35 pm ((PDT))

On Aug 7, 2007, at 4:14 PM, diannem200400 wrote:

> Oops, should have seen Ginny's response before I also asked why.
> Well,
> that 'splains it! I'm feeding salmon oil via gelcaps, no need to
> refrigerate, is there?
>
No, there is not. But I would if it were above 80 or so, anyway.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (18)
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4a. Re: ecoli and samonella
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 7:45 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/7/2007 9:07:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
hav.lover@yahoo.com writes:

What should
have been the appropriate response from me?

Jenna,

that's when you smile and say "ok" and drop the subject. there is no need to
pursue it any further unless the vet has more scare tactics to tell you about.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (7)
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4b. Re: ecoli and samonella
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 8:27 pm ((PDT))

How about asking her if dogs lick their behinds, or eat deer/horse
poop ever? Who is immune, then? May as well equip them w/healthy
food to supply them w/antioxidants, eh?

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jenna Mahoney" <hav.lover@...>
wrote:
>
> Ok I finally admitted to my vet I am feeding my dogs raw. She just
simply said just watch out for ecoli or samonella. What should have
been the appropriate response from me?
Jenna

Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. Re: 13 week old puppies with diarrhea and vomiting
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 7:47 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/7/2007 12:50:27 PM Pacific Standard Time,
pet.wellness@yahoo.com writes:

Okay I stand corrected on the deadly nightshade thing. Thank you. But
I'm still not feeding my dog garlic. :-))

***again, i'm apparently missing something here.. no one on this list
advocates stuffing veggies, fruits or garlic into dogs for any reason other than the
occasional treat or human leftovers.. certainly not as any part of the regular
diet.

I'm not putting peppers, or broccoli or garlic in any of my dogs unless they
do a convincing starvation act while i happen to have leftovers on my plate,
and then it's not incredibly likely because i know that no one here is starving
or anywhere close to it.. lol.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (16)
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5b. Re: 13 week old puppies with diarrhea and vomiting
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 4:15 am ((PDT))

<<...Not that anyone asked for our $0.02, but there it is!>>

Everyone's $.02 are always appreciated. The more knowledgeable minds meet, the more info us newbies get.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

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Messages in this topic (16)
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5c. Re: 13 week old puppies with diarrhea and vomiting
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 4:15 am ((PDT))

<<...Overeating more or less defines most of our vegetative caveats. So
the issue really is not how much is too much, but rather why take the
chance at all, since none of it is nutritionally required anyway...>>

Excellent answer. Very informative and helpful, no accusations.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

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Messages in this topic (16)
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6a. Re: Just started yesterday
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 8:00 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/7/2007 3:57:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bmclaen@rochester.rr.com writes:

So far her stools have been small and sloppy, tonight is the 3rd full
day of feeding raw. She has only gotten chicken quarters thus far. Her
behavior is bouncy and happy so I am not worried that something is
wrong, however I'm wondering how long should I continue with chicken
quarters if her stools continue to be so runny? TIA!

Laeny,

i would give it a week before i intervened as long as it's not full blown
diarreah. if after that they continue to be sloppy i would remove the chicken
skins for a couple days and if that still doesn't help i would move on to a
different type of meat, like pork or turkey.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (8)
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7.1. Re: Intro
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 8:30 pm ((PDT))

Sarah,

Welcome to rawfeeding! Jane has PWD, too, so you might visit her site.

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Turgeon" <Seguropwds@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> My name is Sarah Turgeon, and I have two Portuguese Water Dogs >

Messages in this topic (129)
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8. Next new meat? (first week on raw)
Posted by: "eyed_blue" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 4:16 am ((PDT))

Hi folks, just in my first week on raw and things are going well but
just wondered what would be the best food to introduce next?

I so far feed tripe, lamb(RMBS) and chicken meat without a problem.

Thanks,

Natalie

Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. Re: calcium/magnesium ratio????
Posted by: "Katie" kcrockett@mac.com kcrockettla7
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 4:17 am ((PDT))

that's possible, except that neoither my vet tech friend nor her vet husband have a practice
any more. Her husband does rescue work at cost - his business now is appraising vet
practices that are to be sold . . . so neither of them makes anything off what kind of food i
feed!

i know she sincerely believes she is right . . . i just wanted to know if it really is something i
should watch for (while i'm watching for e. coli and salmonella :) )

...katie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "temy1102" <tammy.a.jp@...> wrote:
>
> sounds like the same propaganda vets have been brainwashing us for
> years with so they and the pet food companies that sponsor them can
> make a buck. not that your vet friends are necessarily to blame,
> they've been brainwashed with this stuff in school too. fear tactics...

Messages in this topic (8)
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9b. Re: calcium/magnesium ratio????
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 5:29 am ((PDT))

<<..not that your vet friends are necessarily to blame,
they've been brainwashed with this stuff in school too. fear tactics...>>

I've heard that vets only get a workshop on nutrition. If they are not proactive in staying up with the new research about feeding raw, they are clueless and like so many other people believe that the nutritional needs of a dog are very similar to a humans.
A friend made a comment and I'd like to know what you all think. Aren't dogs evolving from their wolf level of evolution due to domestication? Therefore, causing their digestive needs to be different?

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (8)
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10a. Veggie lovers (Was Re: 13 week old puppies with diarrhea and vomitin
Posted by: "Pi" scribblekitten@yahoo.com scribblekitten
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 4:17 am ((PDT))

costrowski75 wrote:
> *****
> For some reason I have raised myself up a crop of veggie lovers.
> Well, that is to say a bunch of dogs with broad tolerances.
> Nevertheless, I see no need to process veggies for them. They can
> eat the salad leftovers, it's okay by me if it's okay by them.
>
>

My Pi is a total fruit addict! I was eating a peach the other day,
looked at him sitting next to me to see two big gloopy strings of drool
hanging from the corners of his mouth...it was like a scene from a
cartoon, with the puddles of drool at his feet and everything. Of course
he got a little piece when I was done (and after I'd stopped laughing
hysterically at the whole scene)...he has those cute pleading Heeler
puppy eyes.. >.<
He will do anything for a piece of apple, and loves to munch on lettuce,
uncooked peas and carrots and I even caught him trying to steal the
tomatoes off the counter the other day *sigh*
He will actually eat a piece of fruit before he eats a piece of meat, if
given both in front of him - I figure it must be because it's sweet, so
it's like candy! Of course he only gets these things in very small
amounts as special treats :) It's really very amusing though.

My former housemate's Lab decided that green beans were absolutely
terrifying though: she took one sniff of one and bolted outside!

-Anna +Pi (fruitarian dog?!) +SunshineKitty (just meat for me kthx)

Messages in this topic (16)
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11. diarrhea/Abscess/runny eyes
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 5:25 am ((PDT))

<<...He is definitely not getting enough nutritional value
somehow. He just got an abscess on his paw and he's
been having browish colored runny stuff from his eyes.
He never had this before he started raw...>>

Same thing is happening with my dog. I'm curious to see what you all know about this.
His diarrhea has finally calmed down. I gave him some Slippery Elm, thanks all for that piece of advice, and have him just on chicken until I'm sure he's absolutely stable. Is it ok that I also gave him a raw egg, that's runny chicken.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (1)
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12.1. Re: Fish
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 5:30 am ((PDT))

<<...A recommendation (there are several recommendations, since the whole
issue of mercury levels is hotly contested) is to eat these fish once
a month, and that children and pregant women should pasadena
altogether. I lump dogs in with the women and children myself....>>

Excellent answer and referrals. I too made a rule that if I won't eat it I won't feed it to Nugget. Our food bill is astronomical due to where we live and because I eat mostly organic and no junk.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (146)
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