[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11889

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: 13 week old puppies with diarrhea and vomiting
From: costrowski75
1b. Re: 13 week old puppies with diarrhea and vomiting
From: Pamela Picard
1c. Re: 13 week old puppies with diarrhea and vomiting
From: brandy smolen

2a. Re: ecoli and samonella
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: ecoli and samonella
From: Daisy Foxworth

3.1. Re: Intro
From: Brandi Bryant

4a. Re: pork bones
From: Yasuko herron

5a. Re: New to raw/Help needed
From: Yasuko herron

6a. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
From: rbmc1231937
6b. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
From: Barbara Knight
6c. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
From: diannem200400
6d. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
From: diannem200400
6e. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
From: costrowski75
6f. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Beef
From: Eve
7b. Re: Beef
From: cmhausrath

8.1. Fish
From: Boxer Lover
8.2. Re: Fish
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: calcium/magnesium ratio????
From: temy1102

10a. Re: new-many questions
From: lisa23weasley
10b. Re: new-many questions
From: temy1102

11a. Just started yesterday
From: lmclaen

12. Newbie who needs help
From: dawn_rescue

13. E vitamin
From: rbmc1231937

14. No problems and a lovely vet
From: pfinofayed

Messages
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1a. Re: 13 week old puppies with diarrhea and vomiting
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 11:01 am ((PDT))

"cmhausrath" <cmhausrath@...> wrote:
>> Ah, see, Griffin thinks a "judicious" feeding of any veggie means
NONE
> at all.
*****
For some reason I have raised myself up a crop of veggie lovers.
Well, that is to say a bunch of dogs with broad tolerances.
Nevertheless, I see no need to process veggies for them. They can
eat the salad leftovers, it's okay by me if it's okay by them.

We were both
> quite relieved to learn, early on, that veggies weren't required
> feeding.
*****
Amen to that!

if Griffin wants it, he can get it himself. We
> walk -- even in our urban setting! -- in a variety of places, each
with
> its own menu of browse-able plants. From time to time he elects to
> partake of some of them
*****
And to this as well.
Right now my "yard" is awash in Bermuda grass and my dogs like to
wade in and have a bite. Sometimes the grass produces string poop
incidents, sometimes it just disappears. And sometimes though not
often it does come back up.

> Not that anyone asked for our $0.02, but there it is!
*****
Your two cents is always worth a buck three-eighty in my book.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
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1b. Re: 13 week old puppies with diarrhea and vomiting
Posted by: "Pamela Picard" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 1:48 pm ((PDT))

Okay I stand corrected on the deadly nightshade thing. Thank you. But
I'm still not feeding my dog garlic. :-))
Pam

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Pamela Picard" <pet.wellness@...>
wrote:
>
> a toxin in the green part of the pant. If the pepper is not fully
> ripe, the toxin in the skin can cause nausea and vomiting if
> overeaten. Who knows how much it takes to distress a puppy? My dog had
> a similarly violent reaction to garlic. So no more garlic. I'm glad
> the situation resolved on its own. Pamela
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, brandy smolen <msbrsmolen@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all - So I am definitely doing something wrong!
> > broccoli and bell peppers. I grind up the veggies and
> > she doesn't get that much of them. I think there was
> > also some carrots and salad in with it. For breakfast
> > Brandy
> >
> >
> >
>
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Messages in this topic (12)
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1c. Re: 13 week old puppies with diarrhea and vomiting
Posted by: "brandy smolen" msbrsmolen@yahoo.com msbrsmolen
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 5:11 pm ((PDT))

Thanks - to everyone who gave me some much needed feed
back! I appreciate it! I was told to give my pup some
rice mixed in with a little of her food until she was
back to normal - so I have been trying that - but she
doesn't really care for it. So tonight I was just
going to give her the ground up raw chicken with bone
in it. The ground up food that I give her has organ
meat in it as well as bone. When I first started her
on it her stools were very hard. The diarrhea started
when I gave her to many different things all in one
week. To much to soon from what I understand. So
wish me luck on just going back to just the raw food
she is used to. Thanks again for all of your help
everyone!
Brandy

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Messages in this topic (12)
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2a. Re: ecoli and samonella
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 11:03 am ((PDT))

"Jenna Mahoney" <hav.lover@...> wrote:
>she
> just simply said just watch out for ecoli or samonella. What should
> have been the appropriate response from me?
*****
A genuine smile and a "thank you" would be quite sufficient.

You might have asked her what they look like so you can watch out for
them, but that probably would have set the relationship back a bit.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: ecoli and samonella
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 11:10 am ((PDT))

I was faced with something like that when my vet cautioned me, gently,
about salmonella and raw chicken.

Looking back, I think the appropriate response was simply, yup, I'm on
top of it.

Instead, I gave her a short lecture, LOL.

Daisy

Messages in this topic (5)
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3.1. Re: Intro
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 11:09 am ((PDT))

Welcome Sarah - I'm a new member also - just started my guys on raw just
yesterday, they seem to like it. This group is great! They have a bunch of
useful information for us newbies!!!

Brandi
Max, Duke, Roxie, and Catorie

On 8/7/07, sbnfield4 <sbnfield4@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Welcome Sarah, Callie, and Charlie!
> From another new member,
> Susan, Sheba (GSD) and Max (JRT)
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail,
> news, photos & more.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (128)
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4a. Re: pork bones
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 11:11 am ((PDT))

> I got a leg-that I cut up in big chucks
> for my dogs. is the leg bone too much for them?

My dog is Corgi,but she eat pork rib like chicken bone and she can consume all neckbones easy and for pork feet,it takes longer time but she finish it off all.

If this help you?

yassy

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Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: New to raw/Help needed
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 1:24 pm ((PDT))

> You have a lot of common sense and explained why we should feed dogs raw extremely >well. I'm sure you helped the person who asked very well. I always enjoy your posts.

Hi,Ivette. Thank you for the complement:-> I am still newbie category,but trying to learn bit by bit and with it,I like to help others on this list too if there are any I could :-P

Since palette cannot go outside much for heat advisery,she is right next to me sleeping on her little fake lamb skin bed and twitching...

I think she is dreaming about..us playing fetch ball we did early morning today:-P

yassy

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Messages in this topic (6)
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6a. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
Posted by: "rbmc1231937" rbmc1231937@yahoo.com rbmc1231937
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 1:24 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andelys Peck" <a_peck@...> wrote:
>
> I am behind on my emails so sorry if this was mentioned but you
should
> always give Vitamin E too if you are giving Salmon
Oil. Andy
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get Cultured With Arts & Culture Festivals On Live Maps
> http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca&v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!
2010&encType=1&style=h&FORM=SERNEP
>
For 8000 mg of Fish oil, how many mg of E vitamin ????????? Barb&Reily

Messages in this topic (17)
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6b. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
Posted by: "Barbara Knight" rbmc1231937@yahoo.com rbmc1231937
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 2:55 pm ((PDT))

so How much salmon oil for a 80 LB dog with skin allergies Barb&Reily

----- Original Message ----
From: costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2007 10:54:56 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts

"diannem200400" <diannem200400@ ...> wrote:
>
> I recall a post that talked about specific "therapeutic" amounts of
> fish oil to feed if, for example, you have a dog with severe
allergies
> and are trying to boost the immune system.
*****
The notion is thus:
--1000mg fish oil (180 EPA and 120 DHA) per 10lb of dog
for "therapeutic" use.

--1000mg (180/120) per 30lb (or 20lb) of dog for "maintenance" .

I think it said to feed daily 100mg per 10 lbs of body weight.
> So, that would be 12 of the 1200mg capsules per day for a 120 lb dog,
> right?
*****
1000mg capsule.
If you are using a "single" strength (180mgEPA/120mgDHA) product, you
would give one 1000mg capsule per 10lb of dog so yes 12 capsules would
be correct. This is of course a recommended amount, but they don't
call it therapeutic for nothing.

It might be easier/cheaper for you to dose with a liquid salmon oil
instead.
Chris O

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Messages in this topic (17)
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6c. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 4:57 pm ((PDT))

Why?

Dianne M.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rbmc1231937" <rbmc1231937@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andelys Peck" <a_peck@> wrote:
> >
> > I am behind on my emails so sorry if this was mentioned but you
> should
> > always give Vitamin E too if you are giving Salmon
> Oil. Andy
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get Cultured With Arts & Culture Festivals On Live Maps
> > http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca&v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!
> 2010&encType=1&style=h&FORM=SERNEP
> >
> For 8000 mg of Fish oil, how many mg of E vitamin ?????????
Barb&Reily
>

Messages in this topic (17)
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6d. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 4:58 pm ((PDT))

Oops, should have seen Ginny's response before I also asked why. Well,
that 'splains it! I'm feeding salmon oil via gelcaps, no need to
refrigerate, is there?

Dianne--

In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, ginny wilken <gwilken@...> wrote:
fish oil, which we use in bulk and keep quite
> cold.

Messages in this topic (17)
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6e. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 6:32 pm ((PDT))

Barbara Knight <rbmc1231937@...> wrote:
>
> so How much salmon oil for a 80 LB dog with skin allergies
*****
The recommendation I have read most frequently is one 1000mg capsule
(total 300mg DHA/EFA) per 10lb of dog for a therapeutic dose. An 80lb
dog, based on this, would get eight 1000mg caps a day.

Other recommended doses are per 20lb of dog and per 30lb of dog.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (17)
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6f. Re: Re-check on fish oil amounts
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 7:03 pm ((PDT))

"diannem200400" <diannem200400@...> wrote:
>
> Oops, should have seen Ginny's response before I also asked why.
Well,
> that 'splains it! I'm feeding salmon oil via gelcaps, no need to
> refrigerate, is there?
*****
I am currently feeding (and taking) gelcaps and I do not refrigerate
them.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (17)
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7a. Re: Beef
Posted by: "Eve" loulou_bean@yahoo.com loulou_bean
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 1:26 pm ((PDT))

I gave pork along with the chicken once and then pork
alone once, and both times it didn't seem to agree
with him.

He is definitely not getting enough nutritional value
somehow. He just got an abscess on his paw and he's
been having browish colored runny stuff from his eyes.
He never had this before he started raw.

What am I missing?
Eve
--- Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi, Eve, since beef is pretty expensive, my boys
> don't get it that
> often. Slabs of ribs for fun and exercise, but not
> much meat there.
> I buy any roast that is on sale, as long as it isn't
> pre-seasoned the
> cut doesn't really matter. When you add the meat,
> you should
> probably do half a meal with beef and half with
> chicken to avoid
> digestive upset. Did you give whole meals of pork
> when you
> introduced it? That might have been the reason for
> the problems with
> the pork.
>
> If you have steaks with bone in it, cut the bone out
> before you give
> it to the dog. The small size and sharp edges are
> an invitation for
> problems. HTH.
>
> Andrea
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Eve
> <loulou_bean@...> wrote:
>
> > I tried pork and he got a bad stomach and threw
> > up on 2 different occassions. So I am going to try
> > beef. Are there any specific cuts or parts I
> should
> > buy? Or should I just get a large slab of steak?
> <snip>
> > But is it ok to give him a piece of steak on
> > the bone?
>
>

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Messages in this topic (12)
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7b. Re: Beef
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 4:00 pm ((PDT))

Eve <loulou_bean@...> wrote:

> I gave pork along with the chicken once and then pork
> alone once, and both times it didn't seem to agree
> with him.

Although Griff and I both just love pork, it is sometimes hit-and-
miss for Griff. I believe that's because it is sometimes "enhanced"
with a salt solution (broth, or whatever), and it can be REALLY tough
to find the "enhanced" note on the label. Or, as was recently
discussed (perhaps here, perhaps on RawChat), some stores may really
not label their repackaged "enhanced" stuff as such. I have, in the
last 3-4 months, gotten vigilant about checking labels and making
sure I'm NOT buying enhanced anything. In that time, the hit-and-
miss aspect has vanished, and we're both back to just loving pork.
Problem solved, I hope.

I hear tell some dogs don't care a bit about enhanced products, but
mine is not one of them. Perhaps it's age, or long-term damage
sustained from poor early care (I didn't get him 'til he was an
adult), or bad genes somewhere along the line. All I know is,
enhanced pork or chicken give him either (a) loose stools or (b)
terrible gas or (c) a vomiting spell or (d) all of the above.

Point being, your dog may have similar issues with enhanced products,
and you may have inadvertently given them. Maybe it IS the pork, but
maybe not. FWIW.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (12)
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8.1. Fish
Posted by: "Boxer Lover" boxer.love@yahoo.com boxer.love
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 1:49 pm ((PDT))

I know we've gone over fish quite a bit but a friend made what I thought to be, a strange comment. She said, "I thought you couldn't feed fish because of the mercury". What is she talking about? I've never heard of this. Are there certain types of fish that can't be fed? My son likes to catch Rainbow Trout in the local reservoir and feed them to the dog. Are they not okay to feed? Is there certain preparation like needing to freeze the fish for a length of time to kill off any infections?

Stephanie

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Messages in this topic (145)
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8.2. Re: Fish
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 6:29 pm ((PDT))

Boxer Lover <boxer.love@...> wrote:
>
> I know we've gone over fish quite a bit but a friend made what I
thought to be, a strange comment. She said, "I thought you couldn't
feed fish because of the mercury". What is she talking about?
*****
Adult of species that grow slowly to a very large size have been in
the oceans long enough to accumulate a lot of toxins, of which
mercury is one. Really big fish like king mackerel, shark, tilefish
and tuna may deliver quite a load of mercury to the regular consumer
of such fish.

A recommendation (there are several recommendations, since the whole
issue of mercury levels is hotly contested) is to eat these fish once
a month, and that children and pregant women should pasadena
altogether. I lump dogs in with the women and children myself.

Here are some links that may possibly help you make healthy decisions:
http://www.mbayaq.org/cr/seafoodwatch.asp
http://www.oceansalive.org/eat.cfm?subnav=bestandworst
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/sea-mehg.html
http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/guide.asp

HTH,
Chris O

Messages in this topic (145)
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9a. Re: calcium/magnesium ratio????
Posted by: "temy1102" tammy.a.jp@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 3:59 pm ((PDT))

sounds like the same propaganda vets have been brainwashing us for
years with so they and the pet food companies that sponsor them can
make a buck. not that your vet friends are necessarily to blame,
they've been brainwashed with this stuff in school too. fear tactics...

tammy & grover

Messages in this topic (6)
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10a. Re: new-many questions
Posted by: "lisa23weasley" lisa23weasley@yahoo.com lisa23weasley
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 3:59 pm ((PDT))

one more question - is organ only fed 1 time per week? I gave him liver yesterday- I gave him about 4 pieces cut up the size of a thumb nail. his poop was fine today. - thank you for any advice. - lisa

Messages in this topic (3)
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10b. Re: new-many questions
Posted by: "temy1102" tammy.a.jp@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 3:59 pm ((PDT))

my ? is what is beef cheek -muscle?
- i don't know, i'm wondering the same thing myself.

and what is sweet bread-ugly white looking meat.
- it's organs, some random ones like glands and stuff, all delicious
for rocco.

how often can these be fed?
- as often as his stomach can tolerate it. my dogs ADORE organs and
since i feed ground up organ mixes, they will try to eat the spoon
along with their helpings. technically and approximately though,
organs should be 10% of his diet, with liver making up half of that.

also are turkey necks to small for him?
- only if he's a gulper. if he IS gulper, just hold onto the neck
while he eats it so he HAS to chew it. watch your fingers. also,
remember that they don't have much meat on them, so feed accordingly,
i.e. meat-heavy meal the next day or throw in some pieces along with
the neck.

oh one more thing-if I am tring to have him gain weight do I calculate
according to his current weight or with his goal weight?
- honestly, you're thinking too much, but i did the same thing. when
i wanted my dog to gain weight, i basically kept increasing the amount
of food as her stomach tolerated it. but i was on such a "feed her as
much as she can eat" kick, that she got kinda plump almost before i
noticed it. but we're working on that now. :) if you wanna get
technical, just use the goal weight.

tammy & grover

Messages in this topic (3)
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11a. Just started yesterday
Posted by: "lmclaen" bmclaen@rochester.rr.com lmclaen
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 4:57 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "johkemp" <johkemp@...> wrote:
You will find that her droppings are much smaller than before. This
is because she is more able to digest her food now. Not only will
they be smaller, they won't be sloppy, or smell as much and they turn
to dust within days.
-------------------------------------
So far her stools have been small and sloppy, tonight is the 3rd full
day of feeding raw. She has only gotten chicken quarters thus far. Her
behavior is bouncy and happy so I am not worried that something is
wrong, however I'm wondering how long should I continue with chicken
quarters if her stools continue to be so runny? TIA!

Laeny

Messages in this topic (7)
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12. Newbie who needs help
Posted by: "dawn_rescue" dteuscher@tx.rr.com dawn_rescue
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 6:14 pm ((PDT))

Hello, my name is Dawn and I am owned by 3 Newfoundlands ranging in age
from 6 months to 1 year and 2 Golden Retrievers that are both 11 years
old. I have not switched yet to RAW, but would like to very soon. If
I understand all of the info correctly, I just need to start them on
one meat source for a little while? I don't want to not feed them
enough. Are there guidelines by weight or age? Do you still follow
the feed pups twice a day and adults once? Thanks in advance for any
help!

Dawn

Messages in this topic (1)
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13. E vitamin
Posted by: "rbmc1231937" rbmc1231937@yahoo.com rbmc1231937
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 6:30 pm ((PDT))

I am giving 8000 mg of fich oil. How muche vitamin E do I add.
Barb&reily

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14. No problems and a lovely vet
Posted by: "pfinofayed" pfinofayed@aol.com pfinofayed
Date: Tue Aug 7, 2007 7:16 pm ((PDT))

Since we usually all post with problems and issues and questions and
it can sometimes freak out the new raw feeders. A little good news
and a lovely sane vet short story.
When I got my new mastiff puppy a few months ago to join my 50 pound
mixed breed with itchy butt and toes, I decided to get out my raw
optimal nutrition book and switch to raw.
The large breed puppy food was more expensive than raw anyway. I
had done it with a previous dog years ago and should have stuck with
it but didn't = bad move for me to always regret as his health went
downhill.
So my mixed breed thought the idea was a pretty good idea until I
showed her liver. She looked at it like it was...well raw liver I
mean gross. So I seared it once in a skillet and then gave it to
her. She's snorked down everything ever since, even liver raw. She
also picks cucumbers on her own as they grow on the fence on her side
and the garden side. She can't get enough of them, she eats them
all. She taught the puppy to do the same. She loves seeing me go
into the chicken coop and bringing out eggs, she starts doing her
tricks on her own, I toss her an egg. She breaks it and then eats
it, she taught this to the puppy too. A couple months ago the vet
was out for the horses and I showed him my puppy. I told him that I
was feeding the raw diet. His comment was "mostly chicken?" I
said "yep mostly" he said "cool" that was it. He's a vet, not a
dog food salesman. So the last visit I said Look at these teeth! I
showed them the 3 yr old shiney white teeth on the mixed breed and
the shiney white puppy getting my big girl teeth on the mastiff. He
praised me for brushing their teeth that most clients don't, even
though he tells them to. I said "I don't brush their teeth!! I feed
bones and raw meat" he forgot. So now can I tell you about their
fur. The mixed breed had really rough hair and is now puppy soft.
She only itches when I give her dog biscuits. So stick with it, it
is worth it. I am spoiled though and have a fenced back yard and a
dog door so the soft liver poop doesn't bother me as it is outside
and pretty rare. That's all, just a good report.
Peggy in nw ohio

Messages in this topic (1)
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